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Lawrence Livermore Lab On The Chopping Block?
guttentag writes "According to the San Francisco Chronicle, Bush's Homeland Security plan calls for transferring $1.2 billion of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's $1.5 billion budget to a new Department of Homeland Security under Tom Ridge. However, the plan transfers only 4 percent of the lab's employees. Ridge's explanation of the numbers: "I cannot give you the kind of explanation you need to deal with that imbalance." LLNL funded and houses the ASCI White supercomputer, among other cool projects." While Livermore has an impressive research record, we would miss most the laser lab from Tron.
Cancel the flames. Tom Ridge says it is probably a misprint.
Compared to testing them in the "real world" I'd say this is rather cool.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
The title makes it sound like LLNL will be shut down. I know numerous people who work there, most of which on a massive project called NIF. Tron was shot in SHEVA, which was replaced by NOVA (deriving my nick), which is being replaced by NIF. NIF is the largest fusion laser, based on ICF principles, and is under full swing of construction. It will be brought up later this year. In fact, France has a smaller 8-laser version that just came up this last week and LLNL employees flown there in order to observe any difficulties. This project is a multi-billion dollar one which I severely doubt the government will allow to be scrapped due to budget cuts like this.
So, the most I can see if LLNL being streamlined. I doubt Congress will even give 10% of what they're requesting out of LLNL's budget. LLNL does valuable research in weapon, energy, materials, etc. The government labs are run under the DOE, but do most of their expensive work for the DOD, such as NIF and ASCII being mostly for nuclear research. When the lab scare with China occured it was suggested that the DOD take over the labs, but instead they finally got their act together. Since this is most of the budget, I could only guess they are really trying to transfer the lab to this new department or the Bush administration going to screw everything up.
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
> foreign countries/terrorist groups
Excellent way of putting it, anyone originating from a "foreign" country must clearly be about the same as a terrorist. Therefore, US should define everyone not born there as a terrorist and lock the doors.
I had the same strategy as a kid when I foolishly yelled something at a group of bigger guys and tried to lock myself inside a little junk food store. It did not work very well. Then again, if I had not yelled at those guys at all, maybe...
More newsworthy: The Bush Administration is holding three US citizens in military custody, with no rights to legal representation or due process.
Jesus Christ, am I the only one who this terrifies? Am I going to someday have to explain to my kids why, on old episodes of Law & Order, the suspects weren't simply turned over to the military when they asked for a lawyer?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Short sighted? It would be short sighted to let them continue research into anthrax detection. After all, the FBI investigation was pulled as soon as the evidence pointed to extremist right-wingers linked with millitary research scientists.
while the disagreement may come from "simulating nuclear bombs", i would like to point out that the author is focusing on the "cool-ness" of ASCI WHITE, not the experimentation that it is used for.
You can marvel for ages at a sharp new kitchen knife in itself, while not necessarily endorse the slaughtering (of my poor, poor carrots).
Besides, when (maybe one day) the scientists will get bored with generalized simulation of thermonuclear reactions and possibly direct this result into, say, nuclear power plants, nuclear propulsion, mars terraforming, etc etc
My life in the land of the rising sun.
> Try to not be so thin skinned, m-kay? :)
;))
Heh, I just saw good weather for fishing
I'd be more terrified of 3 terrorists wandering around this country detonating dirty bombs. As far as the Law&Order thing, we aren't talking about 3 kids who were caught swiping gumdrops from the corner store. We are talking about people who want to come into this country and kill as many people as they can.
Michael Loves Me!
The stature he enjoys currently is so clearly the product of the public need to have an admirable figure during a time of crisis (as was, I believe, the esteem accorded the Kennedy administration - I always felt he was overrated as a President) that I consider the Great Man theory of history to have taken yet another mortal blow.
Of course, since you know everything, you can just tell us all the name of the person who sent out the anthrax letters, show us your proof (or is your word proof enough?), and show up the FBI.
-jon
Remember Amalek.
You have an armed body claiming they have the right to kill four million Americans, who have demonstrated a high degree of lethality to date. Why don't you drop out of your naive fantasy land for a while to hazard some concern for the true physical safety of your children rather than your own patrician sensibilities.
you're missing the point
they aren't simulating nuclear detonations for a fucking screensaver, they're simulating to design better (i.e. deadlier, more horrible) weapons.
all that computing power, and this is what they do with it. they could be working on protein folding, doing advanced simulation on an alternative fuel engine, heck, they could leave it sitting there idly testing the reimann hypothesis, but they're designing bigger and supposedly better ways of killing off an entire city.
H bombs are big and scary, supposedly the only thing we want them for is deterrant, and aren't they already big enough and scary enough for that purpose? even if you don't think the US would ever use such a weapon (though it's the only nation in history that has) eventually knowledge spreads, and someone somewhere has a bigger bomb thanks to the cool supercomputer.
Sure it's better than turning unspoiled tropical islands into Dresden, but that doesn't make it *good*
/ end leftist, out-of-fashion, no-nukes rant.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Wait... you mean it isn't?
This
total membership of terrorist organizations worldwide: maybe 100,000, tops.
islamic population: almost 1 billion
making terrorists 1/100th of a percent of islamics.
so can the genocide.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
People in Washington are just using terrorism as an excuse to push an agenda that has nothing to do with terrorism and existed long before 9/11. LLNL, for example, has been an irritation for the Bush administration, and that kind of government funded research doesn't fit too well into their philosophy anyway; that's why they like to play football with it.
1. It's a typo. They're not getting shutdown.
2. Defense Contractors don't fit into the Bush administration's philosophy? Wtf are you smoking?
3. There is no step three.
___
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
Do you know how old our curent stockpile is? Do you know what the expected stable life time is of our curent weapons? Look both nubers up and you may be in for a shock.
Right now we have a shortage of people able to design and maintain nukes. This is a bad thing unless we manage to get rid of every last one of them (not going to happen).
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Dance around the law as much as you want. This is what I believe in:
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
ASCII White is a general purpose simulation cluster with many many uses. It currently simulates various elements of our nuclear stockpile including weapon aging and detonation. But that is only the particular simulation being run on the cluster. It can simulate virtually anything that can be simulated on a very powerfull platform, *that* is the cool part. Its a very powerfull computer. And wait until the next version... 30 tflops, currently being worked on, and which will run Linux. Talk about a beowulf cluster.
Besides, today's top supercomputer is tomorrow's video game CPU. Pretending that locking up a particular supercomputer can stop the work is just that: pretending.
-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
> Where in the law does holding citizenship bar you from being treated as an enemy combatant?
Where does the US Constitution say "the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury unless the state accuses him of being an enemy combatant"?
What if the state accuses you of being an enemy combatant and blackholes you, too? That's OK, right? You can trust the government to do the right thing on this?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I think nuclear engineering is fascinating. I also think using a nuclear weapon is the single most destructive thing we could even imagine doing (thought a sequence of dumb mistakes could snowball into worse). The ability to hold those two seemingly contradictory ideas in the same mind is what makes "The Curve of Binding Energy" one of the best technology reads around. You appreciate the allure of the science and the folly of forcing new technologies as a fix for fundamental human nature issues.
After 50+ years of nuclear weapon development, let's face it. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. We are the only country ever to use the device in a non-test, and there are two countries with far less than an escalating world war at stake who are apparently toying with the idea of tossing a few of these around in the name of God(s).
"The valley is an emerald set in pearls; a land of lakes, clear streams, green turf, magnificient trees and mighty mountains where the air is cool, and the water sweet, where men are strong, and women vie with the soil in fruitfulness. " (Walter Lawrence) which India and Pakistan are willing to use as their nuclear badminton court. Nice.
We'd better know how they work and how to handle them.
Additionally, this is the sort of research that also allowed us to spend enough money to make the USSR play catch-up and collapse their regime. Forcing the Soviets into the poor house and then getting them towards a market economy, a seat outside the door at NATO and increasingly open communication is also far better than blowing them (and likely ourselves) off the map. If simulations got us along this path, then fine.
Do I agree that this was all the best way to do things? Nope. Were there scary possibilities that were minutes from happening along the way? Devastatingly so.
Does saber-rattling with nukes suck? Yes.
But saber-rattling with virtual nukes sucks far less.
As you live longer, one of the things you realize is that all to often you're lucky if it's only two evils you have to choose the lesser of.
Sobering, sad, but often true.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
And these aren't people who "come into this country", they're citizens of the US. Every American should be outraged that Bush and company are so willing to disregard the rights he's sworn to defend.
Why does John Walker Lindh get a trial before running home to his mommy and daddy while Jose Padilla is held using secret evidence but without trial or a lawyer? John Walker was captured on the battlefield fighting with the Taliban, while Jose Padilla is guilty of maybe having met with al-Quaida and maybe having thought about planning to build a bomb.
Is there a double standard? They are both US citizens, but John Walker is white and Jose Padilla is not. Has that affected their treatment?
cpeterso
My guess is money has more to do with it than race in this situation; Lindh has not only his white skin but his rich parents who have hired good lawyers to defend his rights. Also Lindh had no priors and was widely regarded as a good kid; Padilla is a former gang member with weapons charges and widely regarded as a thug.
Either way it is ridiculous to consider either a threat to the fabric of the nation; the symbolic significance these people have been granted by the Bush administration's treatment of them as devil incarnates is pretty much guaranteed to backfire. Incidentally, it's pretty much the mirror image of the Manichaean worldview held by the type of people who join al Qaeda.
So let's not piss on the Constitution in our morbid fear of a few thousand fanatics who want to light their shoes on fire. Find these bastards, try them, and destroy their ability to threaten us, of course, but let's not pretend the threat they pose is part of a cosmic battle between good and evil. That gives them way more power than they deserve. And if we're willing to trash our most precious liberties to run away from them, then perhaps we really are as weak as they say we are.
Since when is it cool to simulate nuclear bombs?
When it's done with ASCII
as much as it scares me to give additional powers to someone like GWB I believe terrorist attacks and potential attacks constitute a public danger as good as anything you could think up. so it appears to be constitutional to my eyes. Whether we're going after the cause or the symptoms is another story however...
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
I didn't claim they were being shut down. They are, however, being put under "Homeland Security", which makes absolutely no sense.
2. Defense Contractors don't fit into the Bush administration's philosophy? Wtf are you smoking?
Yes, the Bush administration likes defense contractors. But LLNL is not a "defense contractor", it's a national lab (as in "llnl.gov"), associated with a university. Conservatives probably would like to privatize it completely, or, even better, just funnel the research money to existing defense contractors.
> > except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger
> as much as it scares me to give additional powers to someone like GWB I believe terrorist attacks and potential attacks constitute a public danger as good as anything you could think up. so it appears to be constitutional to my eyes.
Sounds to me like the "when" clause qualifies "in the land or naval forces, or in the militia". I.e., the requirement for a grand jury indictment holds even in the armed forces, except "when in actual service in time of war or public danger".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
The USA-PATRIOT act specifically requires the Attorney General or President to declare someone an enemy combatant. One of the restrictions is that the person must not be a US citizen.
The 1942 case involved persons who worked for an enemy that congress had declared war on. Congress has not declared war on Al Queda.
To deny the civil rights of a certain class of people amounts to a Bill of Attainder. The constitution specifically prohibits bills of attainder.
All the protections in the constitution are worthless if they can be eroded with a simple accusation. Even if one supports military tribunals for enemies of the state, the state should be required to prove, in open court, that the defendent is indeed an enemy of the state. In the 1942 case, the defendents did not dispute that they took orders from the German High Command.
Should you lose your right to a public jury trial if a member of Al Queda claims that you work for them? What burdon should the state have to meet before taking away someone's right to a public jury trial?
its only the left coast if you read your map with North pointing up... dont conform to the North=Up "Man"
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
> Most trolls don't reveal themselves to be trolls. So what're you... some retarded troller?
Most of your friends at kindergarten jumped into the well - so did you?
Bzzt, wrong! More efficient can mean bigger, but it can also mean cleaner (i.e., less fallout) and cheaper. Cleaner is obviously good: a war would kill fewer people in less gruesome ways, and clean bombs are a better deterrent. Cheaper is also good, since all the bombs will have to be rebuilt from scratch in the fairly near future. (Don't give me any garbage about nuclear disarmament. It'll never happen, anybody who thinks it will is deluded.)
Bzzt, wrong! (heard that one before?
This is a complete and total non-sequiter. What does the rate of deaths by car accident have to do with anything???
First of all, it's non-sequitur, not "non-sequiter".
Second, you only think it's a straw man or a non-sequitur because you don't get his point. Let's put it this way. Something like 10,000 people die every year from gun-related deaths. We have not implemented gun control, because we have a Second Amendment. We have decided that 10,000 casualties per year is a price that we are willing to pay for the Second Amendment. Whatever your feelings about the Second Amendment are, you have to concede that the casualties we tolerate on its behalf are somewhat illustrative of the value we place on it.
Sept 11 comes, there is a terrorist attack that kills a mere 3000 people, and all of a sudden people are "forefeiting" their Fourth Amendment rights. Does this not concern you? The going rate for a constitutional right should be much higher than this. You can make an argument that possibly saving lives should be worth more than worrying about the civil rights of crazy Islamic black guys. But if you're going to view civil liberties via this public safety perspective, you should at least be consistent with it and favor gun control with as much enthusiasm. That would save way more lives, wouldn't it?
I haven't heard any sensible argument in favor of this guy's incarceration. They've all been variations of "oh so you would like a dirty bomb in your neighborhood then huh!" Which is like saying "Why are you defending whichcraft? Why are you in favor of witches?" to accusations of a witch hunt. We've got a guy who's in jail for wishing he could build a dirty bomb. He's doing time for surfing the web as far as I can tell. For typing "dirty bomb recipe" into Google and "researching" their construction. (1. Wrap deadly isotope around dynamite. 2. Light dynamite. 3. Run away.) Merely planning to do something is not a crime. You now live in a country where citizens are put in "indefinite detention" with no trial for a thought crime. This is a major milestone toward a police state. You should be alarmed that this is happening.
And it's not as if wanting to build a dirty bomb means you're going to do it. Does he have any radioactive material with which to make one? "Planning" to build a dirty bomb doesn't amount to a hell of a lot if you don't have any dirt. It's fairly obvious the only reason he's being held in military detention is because Ashcroft knows this crappy evidence would be laughed out of any legal court. They wouldn't even have enough for an indictment. And by arresting rather than monitoring and following this guy, they screwed up one of the only good leads they've gotten from their Camp X-Ray interrogations- which have otherwise been a complete fiasco. All they can do to cover their asses now is keep the guy in jail forever by inventing new laws for themselves as they go along.
The worst part of it is that I can't see what the Office of Homeland Security will do with the money.
Where in the law does saying you're an "enemy combatant" supercede your right to a grand jury and a speedy trial? Giving someone a new label doesn't mean the constitution no longer applies.
> > land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger
> Seems to me these are parallel constructs:
That would require another "or". The only grammatical question is whether the the "when" clause modifies all the preceding, or just "in the militia", and the comma makes it all but certain that it is intended to modify all the preceding.
> It never ceases to amaze me that the same people who scream the loudest when the government does something they don't like tend to be the very same folks who support giving the government more and more power.
The government is grabbing more and more power right now, and I don't support it.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re the second amendment: I differ in opinion. What you've called a trade-off in human lives is more indicative, I think, of a recognition of the infeasibility of gun control with respect to limiting said gun-related deaths.
Yes, that's a valid argument. But it goes both ways. Ashcroft has been eviscerating the Fourth Amendment ostensibly to protect us against terrorism, but I don't feel any safer. In fact, I think this business of arresting anyone with a turban is more of a show for us to make us feel safer than any real strategy.
then Congress should declare war. does anyone else find the new tradition of fighting undeclared wars a bit disturbing?
i mean the Spanish-American war was declared and that was much smaller than Vietnam, Desert Storm or (most likely) whatever mess we're about to get ourselves into.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!