Slashdot Mirror
Is it Wrong to Accept an Employment Counter-Offer?
An Anonymous Coward asks: "I was happily working away at a low-paying but otherwise good job I'd had for several months, after taking a huge pay cut when the dot.bomb bubble burst. Then a recruiter contacted me with a very nice potential position - I interviewed and received an offer with a 50% increase in pay, everything else nearly the same. When I received the offer and decided I was interested, I broke the news to my current employer - to my surprise they extended a counter-offer with a matching salary, thereby eliminating my only reason for considering the other job. However, I talked to some friends and checked the web for ideas and realized that there are a *lot* of ppl out there who believe you should never accept a counter-offer. They make some good points, and there are a lot of those pages - but on the web popularity breeds increased popularity, in a self-feeding cycle, so I'm wondering if the numbers are skewed unrealistically. Is it really that rare to do well by accepting a counter-offer? Do Slashdot readers have experience with counter-offers from present employers, positive or negative?"
If you like where you're at stay. If not leave. Ignore all the extranious bs and make an unclouded decision.
If they gave a damn about you, why didn't they pay you more before? Will you need to get a new job offer every time you want a raise?
-- Will program for bandwidth
words from a friend of mine .."you are your own man"...
Look at it this way...you look out for yourself...if a company decided to lay you off..they will...if a company decides to pay you more...why not? If you really enjoy your current working environment and they are willing to pay you more...go for it...who knows what you will expect at the other place. In the end, like I said, you have to look out for yourself.
I have had only one joub that offered me a counter offer, which I took. The Company went bancrupt 2 months later and I was out of a job.
This probably wont happen to you, but you have to ask yourself why your last pay rise wasn't 50% if the you company is prepared to offer you this now.
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
The only problem I see is that your current employer would then always wonder if you were looking for a new job. Not that it is a matter of trust, but I do think it would change their perception, and they might not see you as part of the team anymore. That may not be right, but we're talking human perceptions not right or wrong. Ultimately, what is your gut feeling, do you think your current employer would feel jaded, would the environment degrade making it an uneasy and unpleasant place to work. If not, then staying would be fine. That's the question you have to answer, as I see it
-Master Switch, one more element in the machine
...jump on whatever you can get. At least with the counter-offer you know what to expect. Jumping ship for another company, you run the risk of entering a completely different corporate culture than what you are used to at your current job.
That's also a damn fine vote of confidence from your boss. I'd celebrate this weekend if I were you.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Don't accept it. Unless they are going to give you a bonified legal employment contract.... why...
Because otherwise you will be the first on their list when they are looking to get rid on someone to cut costs. You are not only disloyal ( not that companies are ever loyal to you ) but you are probably making more than others doing the same work.
Trust me, it's a bad game to play unless you are willing to accept that your employer will always be wondering if you are going to jumo ship again.
On whether you really like the company you work for or not. If you think they'll screw you when the time comes for cuts or another raise in the future, then you should move on. If you dig the place you work for now, then take the money. Most of the arguments on that website are BS anyway - such as "you can be bought"... Well no $hit sherlock... This is why you work, to make money. And besides, this isn't 20 or 30 years in the past where companies are actually loyal to you, I say go for the best deal!
I've never accepted one before, simply because it's a temporary solution. The company was happy paying you less, and all of sudden you get more and they can pay you ?. I guess it depends on the situation, but if you've worked your ass off, and management didn't see a need to give you a raise until you threatened to leave em, it's just a sign that they'll keep you on temporarily until they find someone to replace you. Unless you're in Job nirvana(which cannot exist), I would move to the new place. Sure there are risks when you change jobs, but you have to see your situation and take the plunge.
Never forget that these companies, will fire you even if you think the job is great and the people are great, they will fire you or.. rightsize you, if money is tight. They are in it for survival, and so are you.
I have to say this, but your loyalty should be to yourself and your family, not to anonymous shareholders or board of directors that never have lunch with you.
Take pride in your work, do it well, but do it for yourself, not the company.
It is appropriate to point out to your employer
that you potentially could be making more
somewhere else, but you should do this before
you accept another offer, IMO.
If your employer says no way, then resign and
stick to it. If you accept a new offer, then
resign, and then change your mind due to a
counter-offer, you are breaking your word.
If the employer cares about you, kindly
pointing out that you can make significantly
more elsewhere is all it takes. If your
current employer waits until they get a true
resignation to do something about it, your
employer is the one with the problem.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A good employer will do whatever it takes, within reasonable bounds, to hold onto good employees. You should accept that as a complement and stick with your current job if you are happy with it. Its risky changing jobs...you might end up with a lousy manager or the company culture may stink.
I think it depends on what kind of relationship you have with your current boss. If you can talk openly about wanting to leave, and there's no bullshit politics about loyalty, etc. then you should stay.
If there are going to be problems generated by the fact that you thought about leaving, then don't stay.
I know I could tell my boss "hey, this sucks, I want out." and he would understand, and we could talk about it, but I've had jobs that the fact that I even THOUGHT about leaving would cause problems.
The bigger the company, the easier it is to stay I think, too. Since there's generally more of a personal stake for managers, and people feel closer to the company.
That's my take on it. It's all about how it will affect your boss's relationship with you.
Do you think you will retain it from your boss/co-workers?
And do you have enough of it towards your boss to give your boss the chance to retain you?
Seems only fair to give the person who hired you the chance to counter in good faith. By that I mean accept the counter and evaluate it honorably, don't give lip service about it. If it is a good offer be prepared to take it.
You probably could/should've demanded more before (though that's generally a no-no unless you threaten to go elsewhere) but I don't see why not to take the deal if you're happy with your job. While the other job "looks" the same, it likely isn't. Things that can make working miserable usually aren't seen until they are busy making you miserable.
You should have tried to get a raise first. That would have cleared a lot of things up. But that said, you didn't, so...
If you are an important asset to the company that can't be easily replaced, you like your job, and your company trusts you, you might be able to get away with staying. If not you should be very hesitant.
The problem is that you've already signalled to your company that you are thinking about leaving. If you're going to stay, you should assure them that money was the only problem, you made a mistake by not talking to them first, and you won't repeat that mistake in the future. Otherwise expect that they are going to start looking for your replacement immediately, and as soon as they find her that 50% increase will be meaningless.
Don't listen to anyone who tells you definitively one way or another what to do. Only you know your specific situation, and how trustworthy your boss is.
Your current employer may be simply up the creek with you gone. They might be planning to replace you at their convienience at a later time. Since they need you up until then, they might just offer you an equivalent salary.
My advice: this is a great time to visit a labor lawyer and write up a termination contract. Just put something down about your termination on a "non-performance" basis. This way, if they decide to fire you without documentation of poor performance, then you will have a termination clause (just ask for like 6 months of pay or something like that).
There would be no reason for your current employer not to sign the contract since they are supposedly matching the offer based on your performance. It guarantees them that you will perform as well in the future and it guarantees you that your job won't disappear without a hefty severance.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I think that list is a bunch of crap. Companies don't just pay what they think you are worth, they pay what they think will keep you working for them up until the point they think you aren't worth the money you want.
In otherwords if you accepted the job for $40k and they know you are worth $100k, most companies aren't going to walk over and say "you know, you are underpaid, here's $60k a year more." No, they will say "great job, here's a $5k a year raise!
But when it comes down to you demanding more, or telling them you are leaving they will pay you what they need to in order to keep you.
Too many people look at employment as a personal relationship, but it is much better for everyone to remember that it is a bussiness relationship for both the employee and employer.
The danger in accepting a counter-offer that's purely compensation-based is that the current employer may feel that they've been "extorted" into it, thus creating a feeling of resentment on their part. Also your "company loyalty" has now been called into question.
I've only once even *entertained* the idea of considering a counter-offer. And in that instance I did accept it. But the reason for the impending job move was *not* financial at all. The current job had not been offering me the kind of job-growth opportunities I wanted. Financially: it was about even-up. My current employer understood completely. Understood so well, in fact, that they decided that giving me that opportunity would aid their own business growth. So the next day (completely unexpectedly, btw) they made me a counter-offer I couldn't refuse.
If it had been purely a financial thing, I would've never considered it. In fact: since I went from hourly to salaried, I actually took a pay *cut*.
Mostly people leave for other reasons than just money. Since in this case it's only about money , you can take the counter. In those other situations, money turns out to be incapable of making up for the downsides of the job.
I also did that once. My staying power lasted 2 days after that.
It's amazing how they felt that my expressing misgivings about my position in the company invoked a nice counter offer and a simultaneous feeling that I was "arrogant", a "loose cannon", and "unmanageable".
They really needed me to stay, and I was not even using that as leverage. I was simply stating some misgivings I had about how things were going, and they offered more money to keep me on. Then they fired me.
At two different companies, I was in charge of a team of programmers and pretty close to the offer decision process. At both of them, the feeling was that a counter offer was a temporary resort, and that cheaper labor was surely available.
I'll place my two cents on the "don't take it" bet.
You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy. From this
day on, your loyalty will always be in question.
If you are valuable to the company, loyalty isn't an issue. If you
aren't, you should worry anyway.
When promotion time comes around, your employer will remember who is
loyal and who is not.
See above.
When times get tough, your employer will begin the cutbacks with you.
See above.
Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and a blow
to your personal pride; you were bought.
You're bought no matter where you go. You think that CEOs aren't
bought? They are, and they're a lot more successful at it than anyone
reading slashdot.
Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from? All companies
have wage and salary guidelines which must be followed. Is it your
next raise early?
Sounds good to me. And the company sees that as real money. They prefer to delay expenses when possible.
Your company will immediately start looking for a new person at a
cheaper price.
Again, only if you aren't all that valuable to start with.
The same circumstances that now cause you to consider a change will
repeat themselves in the future, even if you accept a counteroffer.
So in the meanwhile you've made more money. And maybe you get another
counteroffer the next time you get fed up.
Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer, the probability of
voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go in one year is
extremely high.
Again, so what?
Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your
co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal
satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
I accepted a counter-offer. Not clear if my co-workers know, but my
relationship with them gas been fine. Again, if you are worth the
money, no one in his right mind will object to you getting it.
What type of company do you work for if you have to threaten to resign
before they will give you what you are worth?
They're all like that. Get over it.
Is your motivation money only? Are you otherwise happy with your position?
I really think that whether or not you accept a counter offer depends on the nature of the company you work for. If you think that the belief system of the company is based around these ideas, then maybe it would be best not to stay. I have issues with almost all of these points. These points are based on a cut-throat enviroment based on suspision and distrust. I have found that this is generally *not* the case in an enviromnent where the company's success is dependant on creative and happy employees.
I don't know anyone who wants to work for boss pinhead. But If you don't have a corporate environment based on suspicion and distrust, then I don't see that accepting a counter offer under the following conditions would be all that bad:
1. Did you *ask* for a raise or promotion?
If not, then you don't know
2. are you generally happy where you are working?
3. are you advancing your career reasonably?
4. how do you get along with your co-workers? your bosses?
these are some simple metrics. The decision is of course based on a good deal of factors.
SCO to Hell
Ive accepted a counter offer before: My current employer at the time matched what a startup had offered me, and I accepted: no need to switch jobs or anything.
They asked me if I was unhappy, I said no, not really, it was just that I was surprised that I was offered so much money, and I would much rather stay where I was (especially with the 25% raise).
I say counter-offers are great.
When I broke the news, well they bumped the number up again another 30%, making it over a 50% raise since before all the haggling began. My current employer, being a govt contractor, couldn't go that high (the govt has limits on how much you can pay employees) so I took the counter-counter offer in the end.
It turns out the whole thing was very enlighting on how low the ceiling was for me at my old position, even though I liked the job/people/etc, you have to go where the money is.
...you should never accept a counter-offer:
0. We don't get commision if you stay in your old job!
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
You followed protocol, and gave your employeer notice, if you think the counter offer is genuine and you would really rather stay, then by all means accept.
As for that "10 reasons" link, it seems to have been written by a headhunter, to dissuade people being relocated to stay. In other words it is completely biased against counter offers cause it would cost the headhunter money if people accepted them.
Counter offers are a dangerous thing. I once accepted one only to quit three months later. That was because the extra cash and new job title really didn't change the things that I hated about the company I was in at the time.
They are flattering when you get them, but step back and look at your situation critically. Consider things like these:
- Is an increase in your present company with no other changes in the environment going to make you happy?
- Maybe the place you're going to has better job security over your present job?
- Are there other factors that are making you look for another position other than money?
You also have to consider the fact that you have now telegraphed your "dislike" for your present company. Your present employer isn't going to be thrilled that you're leaving and you may find that it is difficult to work there going forward.
I won't deny that it's a tough decision, but the safe route IMHO is to say no and move on.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
The main reason is quite simple: they were seeing what they could get away with. They were not paying you what you were worth; rather, they were paying you what they thought you'd tolerate. I NEVER work for people like that. You should politely tell your manager, "Thanks for the offer, but why did you not pay me that in the first place?" It's always interesting to see them squirm.
I started my own consulting business for that very reason. When people ask me to lower my rates, I politely say, sorry, but that's what I'm worth. If you think you can find others, you're more than welcome to. Some walk, some don't. Yet, today, I've got an international client base and billables over $350K per person. It's gotta be working some way. Mercedes-Benz don't drop their prices below a certain point. That's the price of quality.
OTOH, as a guy who started and sold a dot com, I can also tell you that you should have indicated some concerns BEFORE you began looking. That gives the employer a chance to re-evaluate. Sadly, in the States, you could get fired right there. Businesses here suck about loyalty.
On a side note: I always made it a rule to tell employees that they should ALWAYS come to me with issues. No one works for me forever, so if you're not happy, that's fine. Either we can make you happy, or _I_ can help you get the next job. Who knows where you'll be in 5 years? I might need your help then! It's always worked for me, and I showed the same respect to my employees and teams as well.
Rememnber, it's all about mutual respect.
---
If you take the counter, and they diss you, what stops you from getting another offer and really leaving this time? You've already proven your worth in the marketplace.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
We assign value to our employees because we recognize that our business depends on having skilled, dependable, professional people.
We assign value to our employees because we have a certain task that needs to be done a certain way in a certain amount of time for a certain cost.
A perfect example of a firm that follows the latter school of thought would be the Professional Services arm of EMC. In my time there, I found that institutionally, they regarded their employees as distateful things that they had to have around. There was a high amount of demand on the employee to accomplish tasks in a certain fashion on a certain timetable. The employee's input on that timetable or execution process was not very highly sought after. Employees were laid off, while workload was increased in an effort to maximize profits. While maximizing profits is not a Bad Thing, attempting to do it in this fashion is not wise, long term. The result is that the majority of the folks employed there are looking to jump ship: Contractors were hired on at a third of their contracting weekly take -- their other choice was to simply have their contract cancelled (this, of course, at the same time that the job market was heading downward. In this environment, the employer has very little regard for the employee, and is a pretty awful place to work: If you try to leave you will be coerced either with money, or with an implied threat of your new employer (who happens to be an EMC customer) getting trouble if they hire you -- no matter if your contact with that client was through EMC or not, and no matter if there was any teaming agreement in place.
The other end of that spectrum is the company which has more long-term vision: They are also interested in maximizing profits, but they realize that their operations will run more smoothly if they reciprocate some of the loyalty that they expect from their employees. In this instance, the employer might make a demand of you (for example, sacrifice 18 hours of a weekend in a data centre), however, they will realize that this is a hardship and rather than just have you suck it up, give you something in return (a few days off, for example).
If the company has no loyalty to you, expect that every time you need something, you'll have to complain loudyly. If, however, they realize that a happy employee will be a very productive one, they will nearly always treat you fairly and rarely put you in a position where you need to make demands
The linked 10 reasons are all bullshit. If the company likes you enough to match the offer, and you are otherwise happy where you are, take it. All you've shown your company is that you have goals, too.
Most employers like that.
Bzzt! Wrong. I'm a manager and it is not so simple. Some corporations treat offer/counteroffers very maturely, others don't.
It also depends on the employee. If you are a trooper, you have proven with the offer that you were underpaid and I'll raise your salary and leave it at that.
If you are a whiner, all you have shown is that you are an underpaid whiner. Since I need you to complete the current project I'll make a counteroffer, but I'll start searching for your replacement right away.
The company gave you a pay cut because they thought they could get away with it given the current economy. So let's clear the air and say they already don't care about you. Most companies view employees as "resources" not as people anyway.
No company expects loyalty when they aren't loyal. So don't refuse the counter offer on the grounds they will look for revenge. They won't. Nobody gives you a 50% raise then fires you. It just doesn't make economic sense. And co-workers won't hate you because you make more money, they would do the same in your position.
What it comes down to is where you would like working better. If you like your current job and the people you work with stay. If you think the new company looks like a better place to work then go there.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human.
There are all sorts of things to look at when deciding to accept/reject a counter offer. Most importantly, take advantage of the fact that you now have a choice.
One is: Just how good is your current employer? If they spuriously gave you a 30% pay cut on the premise of the dot-com bust, are they likely to do it again? Are they willing to give you a written promise that you will keep your new job/salary for a long period of time? How stable is the company if it had to give it's employees a 30-50% pay cut? If this is actually an issue, are they willing to offer you a golden parachute? More to the point: Just how much do you trust your current company (or -- for that matter -- the company that made the first offer).
You also have to consider peer-acceptence whether you stay or go. If this presages a general increase in wages, your peers may love you for what you are setting in motion.
You may want to talk to your peers. They may have info on your current company that influences your go/no-go decision. You may (or may not) want to get into the details of 50%, but you can probably let them know that you now have offers from another company and your boss, and you need to make a choice. If nothing else, they'll find out when you've left.. Why not do them the honor of letting them know now.
Also: consider that the "never accept a counter-offer" pages are possibly put up by head-hunters who only make money if they get your head. ... ... ...)
They don't actually care about your career. They only care about the money that they get for placing you (and then for placing your replacement -- and then replacing that replacement
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
At my last job, I was extended and accepted a counter-offer when I was out looking for a job. The key is to be honest with everyone involved, including yourself. Before you step out the door (or onto DICE.COM) consider why you are looking for a new job and what would resolve the problem you are trying to address. Is it just money? Then a counteroffer should be in your considerations. Is it appreciation, management style, duties, etc.? Then maybe not. Then once you have decided the options, be sure to tell your recruiter and/or interviewer that you plan to entertain counteroffers from your current employer. They will let you know how that sits with them - some will decide then and there NOT to extend an offer because they want you definitely; others will be encouraged because it means you will extend THEM the same courtesy when/if you decide to leave their employ. This can work out for both sides.
My first time looking for a new job, a counteroffer was possible. My reasons for leaving were general dissatisfaction and lack of appreciation. I got an offer, came to my boss and laid all the cards on the table. He agreed to match the offer AND to address my other issues. The company improved and I got paid better. Next time around, my reasons for leaving were lost trust in a different manager and a belief that they were phasing out my department. This time, the counteroffer was again extended, but it was never an issue. I refused and am happily at the new job.
The original poster just went about it the wrong way in my opinion. It's like auto-insurance. Some people aren't happy with what they've got, but instead of trying to work it out, they first start shopping elsewhere and only "break the news" when they're ready to leave.
If you come straight out and say you think you deserve a little more, the company may not be as likely to respond favorably, but they also won't treat you like an employee that will be ready to bolt at the first sign of a marginally better prospect. Loyalty may be a lost thing to the big corporations, but it does make a difference to your immediate superiors, and generally they're the ones that have the say in whether you do get that raise or promotion.
But hell, if they turn you down, by all means shop around. Personally, I'm always on the look-out, but it's got to be significantly better than what I have before I'd entertain actually leaving.
You've accepted an offer. Now you want to reneg? It's a small world. People at the company that you were leaving for will know you are a liar and the people at the company you are currently at will think you untrustworthy. It will come back to haunt you if you stay. I know, I've seen it.
But, it's your call.
As a manager during a few of these times when an employee finds a 'better' job [and often the job IS better] I have decided to never offer a counteroffer again. It's demeaning to everyone involved---at best it confuses the employee about what she wanted, and at worst it tells her that you were ripping her off by not already paying her what you're counter offering.
I've worked with people who left a company only to return after a few weeks or even years for roughly the same pay and position; this could ONLY happen in an environment where the individuals involved trusted each other.
Counter offers are kludges, and should be avoided by everyone. I'm certain that somewhere down the road I will be expected to offer a disgruntled employee more money to stay; rest assured, through nods and winks and nervous tics that I will clearly imply that my heart and mind aren't into the deal. If there is something which was made a person unhappy with their current job, no amount of money can clear those up. Take the original offer, godspeed, and hey, while you're going, here's my resume.
When several people left my last job (prior to me leaving ;-) ) the boss and I had a chat about this. His opinion was that he would never counter-offer someone... if they were unhappy, it would just buy them a few months before you left for real... and now you can tell the prospective future employer that you are making $1.5X instead of your current salary, with the expectation of getting another couple $k a year at the next job.
;-)
That said, my former company took great care of us financially. The hours sucked... but after 4 months, two of which were 60-80 hours on a big project (completed on time, under budget), I received a 10% raise (after getting 10% over my previous job just walking in the door). Six months later, they made me a "team leader" to the tune of another 17%. Unfortunately, they were also a ".Com" and started heading downhill fast.
My previous job to that... if you busted your ass all year you'd get 3.1% raise, if you did nothing all year you'd get 3.0% raise. Whoopee.. My current job, perhaps more "results" based, but to the tune of a maximum 3.5% raise. I've been here a little over a year, and have done some cursory "looking" - nothing serious yet, just watching the market.. but if the right thing comes along...
My opinion.. if you were *that* valuable to the company that they don't want to lose you, then why did they not reward you along the way? And if they are suddenly willing to give you 50% more, thats bascially the equivalent of saying "we really don't want to pay you what you are worth".
And, yes.. just wait, they'll find some other sucker who they can get to work your job for less than it is worth, hire him and fire you.
Me... if some other company is willing to pay me 50% more for my services.. then *obviously* they think that I will add that amount of *value* to their workforce. And, just as obviously, my current job was just out to get my talents as cheap as possible.
I was in the position of having one of my employees come up with the "I would really like to stay but this other company wants to pay me so much more" story end of october last year. Well, the guy was critical for the project at this time, and was doing a pretty good job, so I was really willing to give him a little more. He demanded a pretty high "little more", though - something we thought he was not worth. So we signed in. I had him prepare the documentation with our office manager which he simply never did (really - we were willing to delay this for a week to save off his higher pay for a month - it was end of the month - but he managed not to turn up for the new contracts for two months). So what happened is that he got fired 22nd of december, just in time to end his working contract end of the year, and with his end holidays EXACTLY matching the rest of the month's work days. Sure his other company had another guy by then. Point is - you dont demand a higher salary in a project being critical and put another company onto the table as leverage. Put the market there (average pay, prooven by an independant newspaper or so), and be reasonable. But never accept counter offers. Propably you are just not replacable fast enough. THONA
When you go to your current boss, don't tell them you have been offered a job somewhere else, just ask for a raise. That way you get an idea about how valuable you are without them knowing for sure if you've shopping around....
I'd never accept a counteroffer. I've seen too many folks get burned - they're generally kept until the project they're on is complete then either fired or never given a good assignment again. I had a friend do this, then there was a downturn in the industry. He got every crap job that came along, no raises or promotions, and there was nothing he could do about it because nobody was hiring. After the job market picked up it was years before he got another offer because his resume was now a piece of toilet paper!
Also, if you renege word does get around. I will stick with the deal I made on an interview, though I will tell the new company about changes in circumstances.
I once had an interview, liked the job, and we set a tentative price. When I got back to work my boss called me in -- he'd wrangled an early performance raise (3 months early & more than I had expected) plus an additional raise as a retention inducement. I was now making just $1 a year less than what I'd told the new place I'd work for.
At this point I was going to make the move anyway, I had made the deal and intended to stick to it, though I'd certainly tell them what had changed. The new folks called -- they'd verified my credentials, made the offer we agreed on. I told the personel worker bee what had happenned and as I was about to accept she slammed the phone down! I called her boss -- told him what happenned. He asked when I'd start -- I told him that his employee's behavior absolved my concience & I wouldn't want to work for them.
Nearly 10 years later I had a great phone interview with the same company, but in another state. At the end of the interview they all but offerred me the job. I never heard back. It took a couple of phone calls before anybody would talk to me -- I was told that they had a black-list. If you ever turned down an offer you were put on the black-list and nobody, in any division, was allowed to hire you. Employees who quit were also put on the list.
BTW: The company went down the tubes long ago.
Exercise for the student: Why did this company go out of business?
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." --Napoleon Bonaparte
The company I went to that offered me 50% salary increase got me going from a very good company to a new startup, at that time I was ready to take the risk of being "screwed" in the worse case scenario. Job stability wasn't my main concern back then so I could afford "experimenting". What an experimentation it was, I got screwed big time, promises promises and after 6 months I've lost my job with some lawyers letter (the ceo there was a total freak and liar). After fighting to get my last week of pay and my overtime... anyways all this to say, this wasn't worth the 50% increase, the other place wasn't paying as much but I had a "name" and potential title to put on my resume. Worse, after I left and some other did the same, they re-ajusted their salary brackets and while it wasn't matching what I got, it was still good enough to consider the type of work and the stability for the little difference it gave.
:).
So basically, if you are looking for stability, and want to risk it in a startup that offers good salary so you they can start up properly with the good people, it's a risk, and depending on how much you are willing to risk and where you live, there are tools that you can use to protect yourself.
The other thing when you stay at a company that makes a counter-offer, some CEOs are dumbasses, especially in startup. They will take the fact that you looked elsewhere personnally "what, you think I am not treating you well? you think blablablabla? how dare you!", and they will always have that little irrationnal something caught between how professionnal you are and their judgment, some (very few) bosses understand this and respond in a good way, but most are very idiotic about it. That's one thing I like about some bigger companies, if you did a good job and leave because you got better pay, they reajust, and offer you to come back if it doesn't succeed, that way you'll have gained extra experience and if you get back chances are you'll be a more stable ressource and etc etc and they will rely on you more.
One thing you can do to be sure when you get a counteroffer, it shows that he really wants to keep you and you can ask more, like a one year contract so that way if shit breaks loose, you'll still get 1 year of salary for sure and he won't be able to fire you under normal circumstances. One thing I often saw is the CEO acts like if nothing happened and it's normal life going, he hires somebody with a different function but can overlap yours and ends up kicking you out. This is very common and "buisness is buisness" they'll say.
I also had a good experience going into another company with a bit higher salary, but it was people I already knew for a long time and all, so I guess this wouldn't count
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I ended up quiting 5 times in my last position (yes.. 5 times). Each time they countered..
the last time, I said, forget it.. this is BS.
I also worked for Goldman sachs. A friend of mine quit, but they counter offered. The next round of layoffs, he was gone.
If they really cared, they wouldn't wait until you quit to counter offer..
Don't accept.
Golden Rule: When you are getting ready to quit, you should say "no" to any counter offers .
-ee: "I have a job offer for a much higher salary."
-er thinks "We can't lose him right now."
-er: "We're prepared to match that salary if you stay with us."
-ee: "Okay then, I'll stay."
-er thinks "Whew! That bought us some time, but this guy is just after money, so no doubt he'll be squeezing us for more later. I'd better start looking for his replacement now."
Being willing to jump ship for a better offer is not an impressive show of loyalty. Remember that employers ideally want idiot-savants who are brilliant at their work, but neither know their value nor seek their own best interests. They don't want people who are primarily influenced by money, they want people who are easily influenced by "good management" (i.e. manipulation and security/benefit shell games).
After skimming a lot of comments, I've noticed one thing that hasn't been mentioned-
If you take a counter-offer, you won't have to give up benefits at your current employer that you may have accrued over many years. 5 weeks vacation, becoming vested in a company retirement plan... These things take a a lot of time to work up to, and they're worth consideration.
It's amazing how they felt that my expressing misgivings about my position in the company invoked a nice counter offer and a simultaneous feeling that I was "arrogant", a "loose cannon", and "unmanageable".
Those are the best qualities to have - it just means that Management has recognized you are doing something smart. They like to be the only ones doing the screwing, you screw 'em back and you're "unmanageable". You know what I say? Good! I'd rather be "unmanageable" than some clueless putz that gets it up the ass every day.
I'm a 2000 man.
One point that seems to be overlooked is that the people with a bad reputation for "chasing the money" are going after relatively small sums - 10%, maybe 15% at the most. While this isn't inconsequential, most of us would happily trade 10% of our salary for better benefits, a less stressful commute, etc.
But when you're in the 50% range, *nobody* will challenge you for putting the money first. (Well, I've known a few asshole bosses who would try to guilt you, but nobody else would give them any credence.) That's too much of a jump to ignore.
Unfortunately, the same thing applies to counteroffers. If your boss offers you a 10% counteroffer, it's easy to justify as compensation for some thin raises during the past few years. If your boss offers you a 50% counteroffer, you'll soon be resentful because you'll realize how much you were underpaid before, your peers may become resentful, etc. It's a bad situation all around.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
It seems to me you were contacting a recruiter in the first place. Are you not happy with your current employement or is the reason for seeking a new job simply for more cash? If the answer truly is just money, then you should have asked your employer for a raise in the first place. Now that you've pursued other opportunities and threw it back in your employers face, you probably lost a little bit of respect at your current job. Sure, they can't afford to lose you right now so they need to counter the offer. Are you in the middle of the project right now? That would answer why you are a valuable asset at this time. Once they are done with that, you will be the first to go. If you aren't happy with your current employer, then you can't just demand money from them and say that is the only reason for staying. Further, the money is not the only thing keeping you there so why not just go to the next job anyway? If I was your current employer, I would view this as unprofessional and inconsiderate. If you really wanted to stay with your current employer, you should have been up front with them in the first place instead of going over their head. Everyone has the right to seek a better opportunity; however, using it to leverage your current position is simply wrong. Rule of thumb. Always be up front and honest but only tell the people who need to know.
http://www.askthevoid.com
Instead of telling your boss that you have a job offer from another company that is better for you than you current job, instead ask for a raise (if this is what you want most) or if you think your boss will change the work environment to suit your needs then ask for that.
Exactly! I know plenty of people who have taken counter offers with no negative side effects. There are some commonalities though. All of these people were fairly critical to the projects at the time, were all excellent workers in general and they were all getting paid less than they were worth to begin with. They also weren't looking for huge salary jumps, but matching offers. If you enjoy your work and honestly don't want to leave except to get a higher salary (*Especially* after a pay cut) then take the counter offer. If you are fair with your employers, and you don't lord it over your co-workers who might not have the same opportunity, then it shouldn't be too much of a big issue. All these people who got canned after accepting a counter should have expected it based on the management style they worked under, or they likely thought too highly of themselves and either demanded too much or didn't put in the same effort once the decision was made.
bkr
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
In the ideal world, where professionalism is practiced, this isn't personal, it's just business . That being the case, you make your decision based on what's best for you financially and professionally and take the offer you want. Professional people understand that, as they would do the same in your position, and deal with it accordingly.
Unfortunately, we don't live in the ideal world, there is no such thing a professionalism in modern business and people WILL take it personal. Because of that, you HAVE to treat the situation as a personal relationship and not a business relationship. Yes this is sad but, unfortunately, a fact of life. What you have done is equivalent to going to your significant other and stated, I've been seeing someone else and I would like to end our relationship. At that point, there is no turning back. Oh, the other will beg you to stay, say that things will change and ask you to try to work it out and be one of those rare couples that use this as a way to make your relationship stronger. However, while you think it's all behind you, there will be hidden resentment, hurt feelings, feelings of insecurity and sometime down the line YOUR the one who is left as they have gone out and started looking for YOUR replacement.
As I said, while this may be a very sad and a very cynical commentary, it's simply human nature and a fact of life. Take the new job and remind yourself of the reasons you left in the first place. I'm sure that if you looked deep enough you'd discover that money wasn't the ONLY reason you wanted to leave. Even if the new job doesn't work out, you'll be better off in the long run.
--I don't mind the school of hard knocks, it's those darned refresher courses I hate. =)
1. You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy. From this day on, your loyalty will always be in question.
Possibly true. But in a company run by grown-ups, you're supposed to let management know that you're unhappy. You are not supposed to whine about it, but you can state, in a reasonable way, that you are dissatisfied. That's what you do when you ask for a raise. And only foolish, childish managers will be shocked (Shocked!) to learn that some employees don't love the company. Of course, not everybody's a grown up.
2. When promotion time comes around, your employer will remember who is loyal and who is not.
See above. And, they will also remember who was good enough to receive an offer of a fifty percent raise, and who was considered valuable enough to be retained with a similar raise.
3. When times get tough, your employer will begin the cutbacks with you.
Perhaps. There are no guarantees in life.
4. Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and a blow to your personal pride; you were bought.
This is ridiculous. We are bought with our salaries. It is how the system works, and it's a reasonable and honorable exchange: work for pay. If you do something unethical because you've been offered lots of money, that's different. Volunteering is great if you are independently wealthy. Most are not. I've allowed myself to be bought away from the life of leisure I prefer: The company told me that if I write programs they'll give me money.
5. Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from? All companies have wage and salary guidelines which must be followed. Is it your next raise early?
Could be. One of the wage and salary guidelines most companies follow is to get and retain the people they need for the least amount of money. That's why you negotiate salaries and push a bit.
6. Your company will immediately start looking for a new person at a cheaper price.
Doubtful. If I were going to do that I would probably just let the person take the new job and then start looking. If the position was so vital that I couldn't do that, I would consider making a counter-offer to retain somebody who already knew the company and the job.
7. The same circumstances that now cause you to consider a change will repeat themselves in the future, even if you accept a counteroffer.
True in some cases. But in the post we're discussing, the only difference between the jobs was money.
8. Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer, the probability of voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go in one year is extremely high.
As others have noted, I want to know the details on these statistics.
9. Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
Word does not always get out. And I personally still respect one of our sysadmins who stayed with our company on the basis of a counter offer. He's been here for five years since then, and everything is fine. I'm not an idiot and neither are my co-workers. The guy is good, he has a family to feed and parents to take care of, another company offered him money, and our company offered more to keep him. They made a good move. Management and staff knew why he was going to leave, because they also use money to purchase goods and services for themselves and their families.
10. What type of company do you work for if you have to threaten to resign before they will give you what you are worth?
A normal one. Not that the person who posted this couldn't have asked for more money sooner, obviously, but he didn't. It does not sound as though he was asking and asking and then finally, after many months of trying to get what he was worth, had to threaten to leave. He didn't know what he was worth to the company and only found out when he tried to leave.
Management may feel strong-armed in this situation, and they may resent him. Maybe it is better to leave. Also, variety and change are good. But that top ten list was weak.
If it's a large company, you could easily get caught in the grip of some corporate HR policy that ties your immediate management's hands. If that's your case, AND you have spoken to your boss about your unhappiness several times before, it becomes an "look what evil HR made us do" situation.
I took one counteroffer and did not regret it. There was another counteroffer (evil HR scenario) that I did not take and I did not regret it. You weigh the risks and make the best business decision for you.
Either way you take risks (old company lays you off for 'lack of loyalty', new company lays you off for 'lack of seniority', and so on). Make it a business decision and take the best return on your (time) investment while minimizing risks.
I ask this question because frankly I'm not convinced about the correct answer, but is it really better to have business relationships that are not personal? It seems that this is one thing that distinguishes american business from the vast majority of the rest of the world. That may be why we are by far the richest and most powerful country in the world, but I wonder at what price?
How many corporations do layoffs in the interests of boosting stock value? That is the ultimate in tossing away personal relationships in the interest of the business. Surely sometimes a business has to cut staff to save the business but there are countless times where a profitable company cuts employees in the interests of increasing shareholder value.
It just seems to me that this immense detachment from personal relationships in business might really be doing us a lot of harm in the long run.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Except there's a big difference between your girlfriend screwing you and your company screwing you.
Don't know what it is? I hope I never work for you!
"Prejudice is wrong; you should hate everyone the same."
Looks like the first person to start thinking in the right direction here! The new offer/counter-offer thing is just an extension, an expression, of the relationship between you (the employee) and the company (specifically, your manager).
:)
When the relationship between manager and employee is good (manager is supportive, employee is ambitious, manager stands up for and respresents those he manages), raises rarely need to be requested. A good manager will already be pushing the higher-ups to give you a raise. If your manager-employee relationship is good, but no mention of a raise or fighting for one comes from your boss, then they probably feel you are not doing above-average work in your position.
If the relationship is not good (neutral or negative, doesn't matter) with your manager, you'll have to fight for a raise every single time. If you're comfortable with this environment, then stick with it... But if you would prefer working with more enthusiastic and supportive management that brings you the raise before you can ask for it (provided you deserve it!), then take the new job and see how you do with their management. Considering your existing malcontent, it's difficult for your situation to get worse.
My situation was similar recently. I had worked for a small tech company for nearly two years, in which time I had 0 vacation days, 0 raise, and did the job of 4 people. This was known, acknowledged, and they promised me both a raise and employees to work under me. After a year of them not fulfilling their promises (justified by constant changes in management - i went between 5 managers in under 2 years!), I moved jobs. The new position was slightly more money, but it offered me a predictable position with an established and very positive-focused management team. The enjoyment of working on this team is what makes it worthwhile... I actually take home less money due to benefits and all that... and no matter what my prior employer offered, there was no way I would have accepted a counter-offer- not because I don't like counter-offers, but because what I wanted was something they weren't capable of offering.
It's good to understand what it is you are really looking for when changing jobs...
.... um, i lost you after "0110100001101001".
A trooper is someone who does the work assigned to them, if there is a problem they'll try and solve it quickly before seeking managements help.
A whiner is someone who always finds something to complain about in every assignment, allocation, announcement, etc.
I've never been a real titled manager but I knew the difference immediately. You also have climbers, people who want to make things better and bring lots of suggestions, I'm one of those. The problem is trying to be helpful and constructive with out coming across as a whiner. Considering TV/movies tend to promote whining or atleast always have a whiner in the plot its a constantly observed behavior even away from work. I've found that if your not careful its easy to pick it up as a common and expected behavior, it starts to seem the normal way to bring up a problem. Rarely do they show people calmly, carefully and thoughtfully bring up an issue with solutions.
The really hard part is when you've discovered a problem, carefully explained it and possible solutions, and they tell you there is no problem.
Keeping a calm, careful, and thoughtful outlook after that encounter is difficult. Especially if its a problem that affects you directly day after day.
First, a general note: Many companies are remarkably unaware of the going rates until departing key employees enlighten them. Hence counteroffers occur because you showed them the hard way that they miscalculated your market value before. If everyone is adults, that is probably all there is to it. If your boss isn't emotionally adult, don't miss an opportunity to leave...
* You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy. From this day on, your loyalty will always be in question.
Loyalty??? How 1950's... It depends on the company culture. If they bothered with the counter-offer, either it isn't too big a problem, or else they really, really need you to stick around while they hunt for a replacement. Better understand your own company well enough to tell the difference.
I am assuming here that you repeatedly told your boss the salary was inadequate _before_ you started looking outside. If your outside jobhunting was a complete surprise, whether because you never asked for a raise or because the boss is an idiot whose forgotten all the times you showed him salary surveys, etc., then you'd better get out, because you have pissed off a powerful idiot...
* When promotion time comes around, your employer will remember who is loyal and who is not.
You expected a promotion on top of that big pay raise?
* When times get tough, your employer will begin the cutbacks with you.
Or maybe if they needed you bad enough to make the counteroffer, you'll be the last one they lay off. But usually in a real crunch the question is not you, it's whether the work you are doing is still vital considering the product lines they are dumping.
* Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and a blow to your personal pride; you were bought.
If there's any chance your boss is as childish as this, by all means get out. If you are as childish as this, I hope it wasn't my company that made that offer...
* Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from? All companies have wage and salary guidelines which must be followed. Is it your next raise early?
Whether you can expect continuing raises beyond the counteroffer is a question you must ask. However, in most companies wage and salary guidelines matter only as long as employees believe they are a reasonable excuse for not keeping salaries competitive. They'll tell you they can't give you a raise because of the guidelines, but it's just an excuse. If they really can't break the guidelines to hire and keep the people they really need, you should have been looking for a new job a long time ago, because this company is doomed to death by bureacracy.
* Your company will immediately start looking for a new person at a cheaper price.
Maybe. If you work on a project by project basis, they might be just stringing you along to the end of the current project, but otherwise, if they thought they could replace you they'd have said goodbye already.
* The same circumstances that now cause you to consider a change will repeat themselves in the future, even if you accept a counteroffer.
If you were looking for other work because of working conditions, don't even think about counteroffers. (Unless it's to promote you to CEO so you _can_ fix the problems.) But if it was just about pay raises, just make sure the counteroffer is big enough that you won't need another raise before the next merger/split/reorganization/corporate bankruptcy makes it irrelevant anyway.
* Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer, the probability of voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go in one year is extremely high.
Source? I can make up statistics too.
* Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
Refer back to what I said about loyalty. Your office isnt like a Little League team, I hope
* What type of company do you work for if you have to threaten to resign before they will give you what you are worth?
A typical one. That's partly because so many companies don't know what their employees are worth until they have to think about replacing them, but also it's in the fundamental nature of commercial negotiations. You are selling yourself. In any negotiated sale, a person who lets it be seen that he isn't willing to walk away is going to get screwed.
To go back to "loyalty": in this context, it's a trick to put you in the ready-to-be-screwed frame of mind.
There are generally two ways in which an employer looks at an employee...
1) As a commodity, a service that the business owns and can milk for any and all skills that the person has at whatever rate they feel like paying. In this case, pay is based on "get the most you can for the cheapest price." These are generally the bargain-basement companies that have nasty reputations in the industry, high turnover rates, etc. They often let people go without a counteroffer, knowing that they can replace this person with a newbie for $15,000 less per year. This type of company does not focus on training and rarely technology, and often thinks of its shareholders and profit margins first, prone to layoffs and a low stock price, no matter what "changes" are made to "better" the company.
2) As a business, another organization with skills and brains to help take the company to a new level. The company is hiring this organization (you) in order to increase productivity, efficiency, profit, growth, etc. The company respects the employee as a valuable part of a team, and the employee could certainly be called a "business partner." These companies usually give large raises and bonuses based on performance, leave doors open and inform staff of newly developing opportunities for partner growth. Their benefits are usually better because they are quite aware of how each employee is an integral member of the team that makes the company tick properly.
Those are the basic two kinds of employers. When being counter-offered, companies often can only go so high due to budgeting and pay scales. In the case of pay-scale limits, it is always appropriate for you, as an employee, to work with the employer to create a "new" position or title in order to be paid what the market (or your skills) say you are worth.
Often times, this is called a "variance request."
Today, I am actually meeting with my SVP (in 2 hours) to propose a variance request for my position. Not only am I underpaid per the market or in general, but I have taken on more duties that are not associated with my original job description. In this case, if the SVP does not want to or cannot provide me with ample compensation, I will propose a change of title/position. Many people feel that coworkers will be offended, e.g., but in reality, there is nothing wrong with keeping the new title and/or position a private matter, just as long as it is approved and on the company's books.
I view my employer as the type #1 above. Today, we will find out how much they are willing to transition to a type #2 company.
The SVP has been bantering about employee retention, so I'm going to test his true feelings on the matter.
Remember, though, sometimes when you go job shopping and then go in to tell your boss, they are counter-offering you because they had no idea that you were leaving, or they might have made a mistake in overlooking a superstar employee. A counter-offer is their last chance to keep someone that could truly be an asset to the company.
My $0.02, to be tested at 4pm CST today.
-RH
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 25% (or more) of a large group doesn't even pull their own weight.
That's certainly true at a large company the first time you do this. But there are a few dangers to the devil-take-the-hindmost approach.
The first is a pretty obvious one: scoring actual peformance is really hard, so most places base this stuff on the appearance of performance or on opinions of your performance, often from people who aren't particularly qualified to judge (e.g., MBAs judging technical peformance). So the people you end up keeping may be the most politically skilled or the most effective bullshitters. Increasing their number may be even worse than the deadweight you had before.
A more subtle one is that if you apply this rule over and over, you will be getting rid of higher and higher quality people. (Simulate it with some random numbers to see what I mean.) That can be very wasteful, especially given the high hidden costs of turnover.
The one that worries me most, though, is that you substantially reduce incentives for internal cooperation. If I know that a third of my team is going to be fired, I have a strong disincentive to help my coworkers shine. For example, the top debugger on a team may never look good on traditional code production metrics, but he may be able to spend an hour to save his coworkers days of hunting. For those following team-oriented approaches to development (including the agile processes like XP), this will destroy the source of most of the potential productivity gains.
Really? Why would you post with an Apple email address and not one associated with your headhunting work? This is slashdot... supposedly a community of geeks and "IT" types.
One thing is certainly true, which a relatively small number of +5 comments have touched upon: Hiring people is difficult and risky. It is were easy, there wouldn't be much need for headhunters at their significant fees, would there?
Risk is a key factor involved in counter offers. Hiring a new person is a big risk. More likely than not, an employee who gets a counter offer is considered valuable and experienced, even if they originally appeared to be inexperienced when initially hired (thus offered an "entry level" salary). They're worth more now, partly due to experience and their good relationships with others in the office, partly due to the cost and risk of replacing them. Risk aside, consider the fee to be paid for a headhunter (or time spent interviewing many canidates). It's not cheap!
The smartest tactic to solicit a counter offer is to establish that salaries in general are higher than you're currently being paid. Published salary surveys work the best, but a few well substantiated "by brother makes XXX at his job and my wife's friend also makes XXX". Coupled together with "company XYZ offered me XXX", your employer will be faced with the reality they they'll probably end up paying about that much to a new hire, without your experience, and with the risk that they might not work out for a variety of reasons. Of course, this assumes that you do make a valuable contribution to your employer's business, that you do fit well into the office culture, and that your salary really is somewhat low relative to a number of opportunities in your area.
Headhunters do have their place... they save a lot of time in the hiring process and good ones are often better at interviewing and selecting the "best fit" than a lot of middle managers (who frequently are over-tasked or constantly putting out fires and don't have time to effectively screen and interview canidates).
But a headhunter Thomas J. Dougherty & Associates... the folks who posted that 10-reasons list post a generic list like that for no reason other spreading a little Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt in staying with one current employer (and thus jeprodising their placement fee).
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
First of all, no matter how much you like your job, it is just a job. You sell a commodity, be it your expertise or labor, to your employer. If your commodity can be sold for more elsewhere, it is perfectly fair that they either pay more, or they don't get it. This isn't the middle ages, and people need to abandon this guilded wage slave mentality.
That having been said, all the advise you will hear amounts to shit until it is filtered through your situation. I checked the link, and I can argue with each one of those points. So here's the deal: If you made it clear to your employer that the only reason you considered leaving was the money issue, then they will *NOT* question your loyalty. However, it will always reflect on you. You will be expected to justify the pay raise with more productivity, and after you decline the other job offer your leverage is gone. Also, you may face some conflict from your fellow employees who are going to be jealous knowing you got a pay raise "just because you threatened to leave".
In all, you may as well accept the other job. In the future, never use the threat (even if you did'nt use it as a threat, it is still a threat) of leaving in order to justify a pay raise. You should instead approach your bosses and make a justification. Your output, combined with your loyalty, and your holistic participation in the companies welfare as demonstrated by your paycut alone should be enough to justify your pay increase. If they say no dice, then you accept the other job offer, give your employer two weeks notice, and move on.
The job marketplace should be as proactive as the economy, but we tend to get ourselves into the "wage slave mentality" that employers are only too happy to exploit. Instead of begging for handouts, employees should recognize the fair market value of their skills, and capitalize upon them whenever possible. In the past 20 years, corporations have abandoned the idea of loyalty, and no longer respect a person for being a "company man". Loyalty is a two way street, and if you can expect to get laid off because management fucked up and doesn't want to take a paycut, then management is going to have to accept a fluid and unreliable talent pool. That's a fair market.
Ok, I have some issues with this post, although I have no ill will towards the poster, so I'll mention why I think the whole worldview being presented here is subtly wrong and give you my own view on how you should handle this issue.
First of all, headhunters only exist because A) companies love to steal workers from other companies in much the same way as some people find the girlfriends of other men more appealing than "available" women: basically, an innate sleaziness which drives them to slither through the mud instead of walking on their hind legs like the rest of us. B) American corporate business will worm its way into every aspect of society it possibly can, so because it was perceived that there was a market for job-hunting assistance, headhunters sprung up like conjured demons to capture that market and make it infinitely more difficult to find a job the old, less unsavory way. There's an obvious parallel between the headhunters in New York and the real estate agents that focus on apartment finding, in that the real estate agents basically locate and sit on every available apartment, not allowing anyone to rent until they pay the agent's bribe first. The only difference is, headhunters sit on resumes.
Having said all that, let me continue.
The problem with the worldview is this. Let's say you have a job, and you're satisfied with it. Then a headhunter finds you a new job and cold-calls you to offer it. Suddenly you're thinking about the new job, whereas before you might have been satisfied. So, you say you're going to quit and they make a counter-offer. You want to know whether you should accept. The real question in your mind SHOULD be, "what the hell am I doing listening to this headhunter? Where I should be concerning myself with maintaining a stable, safe existence with a steady salary, this person wants me to job hop all over the place and never know what's going to happen next." But, ok, maybe your question is about accepting, since you've already taken the bait.
Well, the answer is no. First of all, you liked the job before, right? So you shouldn't have taken the headhunter's call in the first place. And, you definitely shouldn't have mentioned it to your boss if you had. Then, when you decided to take the offer, you shouldn't have even considered the possibility of a counter-offer. Either you're coming and going, you can't be both -- trying to waffle makes you into a whore, and you're not a whore, are you? Of course not.
But, wait. Let's say you really hate your job. Well, then, you'd be accepting the new offer and the counter offer would be a non-issue, right? So I'm assuming that the job was fine until Mr. Headhunter stuck his nose in it.
Now, it's true that companies don't deserve loyalty. Companies don't really deserve much of anything. If you have any loyalty at all it should be directed at a boss you trust, someone who is willing to watch your back from time to time. If you have such a boss, as I do (luckily), I'd advise you to keep him. And, your loyalty to him should inspire you to blow headhunters off.
On the other hand, let's say your boss sucks. Then you probably hate your job and again, the counteroffer isn't much of an issue.
I guess the real point here is, instead of always sniffing around for a better job, maybe you should just try to find one GOOD job that you can depend on, and try to keep it as long as possible. If you find the right kind of job, you won't have to deal with headhunters any more, and you'll avoid the greasy feeling they leave you with. You know, there ARE jobs you can keep until you retire. They DO exist. You just have to show a little honor so that they know they can take you seriously.
Hint: Most of them are NOT in "corporate America".
And your asking /. for advice?! Come on! If you want an opinion that's not based on someone else's opinion, for the love of God don't do an AskSlashdot!
There's no $$$ in 'team'...
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