Slashdot Mirror
Is it Wrong to Accept an Employment Counter-Offer?
An Anonymous Coward asks: "I was happily working away at a low-paying but otherwise good job I'd had for several months, after taking a huge pay cut when the dot.bomb bubble burst. Then a recruiter contacted me with a very nice potential position - I interviewed and received an offer with a 50% increase in pay, everything else nearly the same. When I received the offer and decided I was interested, I broke the news to my current employer - to my surprise they extended a counter-offer with a matching salary, thereby eliminating my only reason for considering the other job. However, I talked to some friends and checked the web for ideas and realized that there are a *lot* of ppl out there who believe you should never accept a counter-offer. They make some good points, and there are a lot of those pages - but on the web popularity breeds increased popularity, in a self-feeding cycle, so I'm wondering if the numbers are skewed unrealistically. Is it really that rare to do well by accepting a counter-offer? Do Slashdot readers have experience with counter-offers from present employers, positive or negative?"
The linked 10 reasons are all bullshit. If the company likes you enough to match the offer, and you are otherwise happy where you are, take it. All you've shown your company is that you have goals, too.
Most employers like that.
--
You sure got a purty mouth...
In the current economy with staff cutbacks and furloughs becoming widespread, I would be extremely hesitant about accepting a counter-offer. If a company is offering you, as a new hire, what you want and you believe them to be stable, go for it. The amount of badwill generated in your current situation by asking for and accepting a counter-offer is too high a premium to pay.
I think that I'd go with the first offer, just for a change of pace. I really like moving around, because I get bored if I'm in one place too long. Luckily, the job that I have now, I started as technical support, and then they moved me to assistant network administrator, so I haven't gotten bored yet. or maybe I'm just weird....
Check out my sysadmin blog!
I think it is reasonable to except a counter offer. The fact that your current company is willing to counter does tell you something about how important they think you are for there business.
Basically, you are in a really good possition now, you can choose any path you wish. So evaluate both companies. Look at the people you will be working with, the stability of the company, all those things I am sure you are considering anyway, and pick which one seams best for you. In fact, you should have a smile on your face, because in an economy where many can't find a job, you have two!
However, 99.99% of organizations will behave exactly as the 10 reasons describe. Yes, I know, it was corporate employers who destroyed the idea of corporate loyalty in the 1980s. It is corporate employers who dump their long-timers to reduce medical costs and grab the pension money. It is corporate employers who will lay off 10,000 people to get a 1% pop in the stock price.
But the very same people who do these things will turn around and destroy the career of a person who accepts a counteroffer. Why? They have "shown disloyalty". Doesn't make sense, I know, but that is the way it is. Take the original offer and don't look back.
sPh
Answering only for myself: hell yes. Everybody in this world is somebody's whore. This is a simple fact of life, even if you pretend that it's otherwise (because you're an entrepreneur, or a "self-made man," or a rich spoiled brat with a trust fund). As long as I'm working in the computer field, not extending Microsoft's monopoly, and not building weapons, I'm A-OK. Other people's standards may vary.
Finding God in a Dog
There are two ways I can see this having played out in your current employer's mind.
1. Crap. This one's leaving, but I gotta keep him here for now. I'll give him a raise, get him to finish the project, and see what happens later.
2. This is what I get for not paying attention to pay rates enough. This guy really is worth more than he's getting to me; after all, I was paying him more before the dotcom bust. Maybe I'll offer him the raise he deserves.
Obviously, #1 implies your employer sees you as a merc for hire. #2 means your employer actually cares. Believe me, I've been around enough to know that #2 is practically worth working for at your current pay (assuming it's enough to live on).
You know your employer better than I do. The question is, do you think your employer cares about you and your career? If so, I'd take the counteroffer, and just to make your loyalty clear, work some longer hours for a while to show how much you appreciate it. If you think #1 is closer to the case, decline politely and enjoy your new job.
Lately democracy seems to be based on the skybox, the Happy Meal box, the X-box, and the idiot box.
Employment is (or should be!) a more complicated situation than "how much cash am I given". If money was your sole reason for leaving and you were happy otherwise, then hey, the counteroffer should be fine. On the other hand, if there were other factors -- job duties, coworkers, schedule, general happiness, whatever -- then you need to consider whether the counteroffer addresses those. If it's just a larger bribe to tolerate a still-bad situation, you probably don't want to stay. If, on the other hand, your employer really doesn't want to lose you and demonstrates an effort to make you stay, than you should definitely consider it.
Having seen management from both ends of the spectrum, plenty of times someone's pay is what it is and no one thinks "Gee, we're really giving X the shaft, woo hoo!" on a regular basis. You're just on their radar in that way. Suddenly, you say you've gotten a nice offer and are considering it and they realize that they could and would like to keep you. Counter offer made. Nine times out of ten, they aren't going to suspect you or distrust you. A counter offer represents a statement of their valuation of you.
No one here can tell you how to decide, but don't let your decision to decline the counter offer be based on imagined suspicions of you. Most managers I know, and when I was one myself, just don't have the time. If you're valued, you're valued. --> Which is what some folks have already said: what kind of boss is this counter offer coming from. If he's a good guy, it's an honest re-evaluation of your importance. If he's not, then, yeah, maybe the counter offer isn't such a good idea.
One company I worked at, often they wouldn't OFFER you raises unless you threatened to leave. It was some sick part of the company's culture. Some of the highest payed people, and who worked there the longest (14, 15, 16 years) got where they were by entertaining outside offers every so often. It was a weird company anyway, true, but mentioning you had been offered X amount more by someone else sure didn't seem to be frowned upon.
I take issue with an item from that "list":
* Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
I have NEVER seen this to hold true. Usually, if you're in that position, your co-workers will understand where you're coming from, and no one treats you differently. If anything, they respect you for taking a stand. Especially in a low-morale corporate culture.
IBM also has a quota.
A certain number of people (I think TWENTY FIVE PERCENT) will NOT receive a raise, no matter how effective they are.
So you need to search for another environment. A judicious selection of the new environment is important. But the most important thing is that you won't be in an statis anymore, you will be moving. Your entrance in the new environment will probably upset all existing... well... equilibria (hey, that's nice, probably even correct!
Of course, if you "only" want an easy well payed job for all your life, please keep to the known environments.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
The new job has a *starting salary* of X. You will get more than that there soon after you start.
Your current job is willing to give you a *raise* up to X. And you already know that they don't want to pay you that much, so it'll be a long time before you get more than that. They think they're doing you a favor-- when they're really just doing themselves a favor.
In the new job, you'll most likely get a raise in 3-6 months after you prove yourself. A year tops...
... and I can tell you from experience that when a company makes you a counter-offer, they are only biding their time before replacing you. If the original offer you received is so much more than what you were making and the company wants to match, you've just screwed up their pay scale. Also, unless you were well-loved by your superiors and/or indispensable, you're now considered untrustworthy and thought to be ready to bolt at anytime.
Get over yourself.
See my other reply to this topic. It is management's job to make sure I'm paid exactly what I'm worth to the company, no more or less. Inflation, expirence, and education, and the job market all are factors that, and reasons to give someone a raise. If they are not looking at market value, then they are not doing their job!
Sure I need to look at my market value from time to time, but I don't get paid to do that, so I have to look on my own time. The boss gets paid to know what I'm worth, if he doesn't know my market value, then he failed to do his job.
I was once in a very similar situation. Although I did not go thru a salary reduction, the place became a terrible place to work at after the first wave of layoffs. The best people got canned, and those with seniority survived that first wave. These were the folks who did little work. I ended up having to do the work of 5 poeple and it sucked, while the surviving seniors still sat around on their butts pretending to work. I found a new job with more pay, but let the current employer talk me into staying with a matching pay increase. The work still stayed the same... sweatshop-like, but now my bosses had a bad attitude towards me for having had the gall to look for another job in the first place and "forceing them to pay me more to stay". The job then sucked worse for a few more months meanwhile the new job offer vanished and I had to wait even months longer before another new job offer came along that was agreeable, when it did, I bolted outta the current job asap, no pleading from my current boss would change my mind. I explained to him, as dryly and factually as a Vulcan would have explained, why my perspective of my current job just wasn't fair to me anymore and thus the reason for me wanting to leave. He couldn't argue with my reasons, they were all true, and I parted company in a civil manner, not burning any bridges. My predictions of the further downward spiral of that company all came true exactly as I said they would. After a couple more waves of layoffs, my former boss, who was now a vice-pres of the company finally decided to stand up to the senior management in support of what was left of his staff who were being treated geniunely unfairly, he got laid off for this... if only he would've had the balls to stand up earlier, he might have made a difference. Meanwhile I'm still happily employed at my new job.
Run, don't walk... to that new job.
As far as the company knows, an employee who is silent is happy with his or her current salary. Sure, they could just throw money at all of their apparently happy employees, but is that the kind of culture where he should want to work (hint: see "dot-com bubble")?
In other industries, offers and counteroffers are, if not commonplace, certainly not unusual. In investment banking and consulting, entire groups get raided, and companies go to great pains to keep their people, usually after a resignation letter is sitting on someone's desk. For someone with the requisite skills and knowledge, it seems to me that the leverage provided by such a letter represents a somewhat more compelling argument than the average request for some consideration.
-db
Jack Welch (former GE CEO) implemented a 3-tiered rating system where the top 1/3 performers got big bonuses, the middle 1/3 got a token COLA, and the bottom 1/3 got fired. Well, didn't recieve any raise as an encouragement to do better or leave.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that 25% (or more) of a large group doesn't even pull their own weight.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Yes, good point. Do you trust your employer?
:-)
Also -- are you just in it for the money, regardless of environment?
Bear in mind that a history of short jobs only leads to more short jobs. If long term stability if your goal, don't jump for short term salary gains.
I have had several long term jobs (4 years this one, 7 years, 9 years), and many short term jobs (6 months to 1 year). The short term jobs usually terminated due to bankruptcy, but sometimes because it was a lousy fit. I have always looked for interesting companies and interesting work rather than huge salaries. I get paid well enough that sweating $10K is not worth it. Sometimes I have taken a pay cut.
When I look for work, it is because the work and/or company is no longer interesting, and no counter-offer could have kept me there. If it was due to looming bankruptcy, ditto
Every situation is different. As a general rule of thumb, I would say that if you are looking because you don't want your current job, regardless of reason, then you should make the commitment. If a counter-offer induces you to stay, then you weren't serious about leaving.
If I had ever had a job where the pay was so low taht I wanted to look elsewhere, and I didn't trust management enough to tell them I wanted a raise, then I wouldn't trust management enough to take a counter-offer.
But I have never had an offer out of the blue for more than I was making, except for a friend who has told me I can double my pay if I move to Silly Valley, and he knows that's not very likely. I have had goofy calls from crappy headhunters, but they were untrustworthy to start with and had no credibility.
Infuriate left and right
[..] if you've worked your ass off, and management didn't see a need to give you a raise until you threatened to leave em, it's just a sign that they'll keep you on temporarily until they find someone to replace you [..]
:
No way could it be farther from the truth.
If you don't ask for a raise you won't get it, period.
Very few managers are actually competent enough to take the long-term view and actually try and keep their best staff happier. If you don't say anything, even the competent ones cannot know your are unhappy because of your salary.
Even managers that are trying to keep their staff happy have to balance between two oposites:
1) Beter salaries for employees (sometimes having to fight through mid-level/upper management to do it) on the possibility they might become unhappy/leave because of their salary
vs
2) Lower salaries, more profit for the company, bigger bonuses and improved image for the manager.
What incentives can you give a manager to align their objectives with your objectives (ie, choose option 1) - from less powerfull to more powerfull
a) Tell them you are unhappy with your salary.
b) Start looking for a job and let them know about it (best after using the previous option).
c) Come to them with an offer in your hand and tell them you are seriously considering it. (again best after the previous option).
These options are progressivly more effective but also progressively more risky (ie the manager might decide to let you go - then again, if you are in step c, it really doesn't mater).
One very important thing to have in mind is to let them know this is ONLY a salary question, and that you are happy with all the rest and would like to stay around if it wasn't for the salary.
If the perception from the manager is that a salary raise will not address the main causes of your dicontentment, then they will probably let you go (unless your are really considered essencial).
Even more important - think through very well why are you unhappy. Are you really sure it's only the salary? If it's something else, maybe you should go to management and try to address it. If it doesn't get solved just leave!!! Believe me, no ammount of salary raise will be enough to compensate the constant feeling of unhapinness.
Is this a job that entails skill ? Did it take you some period of on the job learning to become fully productive ? Did they pay you less while you were getting up to speed ? Did they know how good you'd be when they hired you.
It is utterly reasonable to make a counter offer and quite reasonable to accept. You're clearly marketable, you can take the risk of the company behaving like idiots.
They wouldn't make the offer unless the meant it. Sure they SHOULD have spotted how valuable you were and paid up at your last review, but clearly YOU didn't know what you were worth either, or you did but you didn't make the case.
If there are reasons to stay at the job besides the money, I'd take it and stay. There's no shame, and your boss will ask you not to mention the counter offer. YOU SHOULD AGREE TO THIS.
Be professional, your company IS being professional.
sjf
You have now made your employer aware that you are unhappy. From this day on, your loyalty will always be in question.
No you have not; you've made your employer aware that he's not paying you enough and this has nothing to do with loyalty. If your loyalty is in question, this is not a consequence of the offer but of the stupidity of you employer.
When promotion time comes around, your employer will remember who is loyal and who is not.
See #1. Also: if your employer made you a counteroffer, you're at least worth something so maybe your chances at promotion time are even higher:)
When times get tough, your employer will begin the cutbacks with you.
Nothing wrong with that; when times get tough, there's less work available for you so your value on the jobmarket gets lower so it's perfectly normal to get a cutback. Your chance to get a cutback at another employer is about just as high.
Accepting a counteroffer is an insult to your intelligence and a blow to your personal pride; you were bought.
Accepting a counteroffer means you actually like your job but get payed more. How can that possibly be a blow to your personal pride?!
Where is the money for the counteroffer coming from? All companies have wage and salary guidelines which must be followed. Is it your next raise early?
Maybe it was. Is that so bad? Getting a raise earlier doesn't implicate that you won't get another raise soon.
Your company will immediately start looking for a new person at a cheaper price.
And they will get what they pay for so when they can do with someone cheaper, you're probably not the right man for the job anyway. And if you're not the right person, just don't accept the counteroffer
The same circumstances that now cause you to consider a change will repeat themselves in the future, even if you accept a counteroffer.
So? There are other ways to make it clear to your employer that you're worth more than he's paying for.
Statistics show that if you accept a counteroffer, the probability of voluntarily leaving in six months or being let go in one year is extremely high.
So...where are those statistics?
Once the word gets out, the relationship that you now enjoy with your co-workers will never be the same. You will lose the personal satisfaction of peer group acceptance.
If your co-workers are such assholes, maybe you shouldn't accept the counteroffer and go work somewhere else, but this has nothing to do with the counteroffer.
What type of company do you work for if you have to threaten to resign before they will give you what you are worth?
A company that doesn't know that well what you're worth. That's not a good thing, but it's not reason not to accept a counteroffer.
Conclusion: the 3 reasons for not accepting a counteroffer are: 1. Your boss is an asshole, 2. Your collegues are assholes or 3. You're not the right man for the job (or just don't like the job). Oh and maybe you'd also noticed these 10 reasons where on a site called `jobtechsearch'. Their sole goal is to get you a new job so counteroffers are a bad thing for them:)
0x or or snor perron?!
No one can you tell you that either decision is the only right decision. Think about your job today. Do you like it? Are there things that bug you (like management or salary)? If you had been getting paid this new salary all along, would you have looked for other opportunities?
Leaving because you are scared of taking a counter offer is no good reason to leave. If you have other reasons for leaving, then do so. You also have to keep in mind that you are giving up things like years of service which affect, among other things, how much vacation you have and when you get more.
In the future, you can shop around for salaries without having to accept offers. Ask your friends what they are getting offered. Don't be afraid to ask for a salary range from a head hunter, but keep them honest. Don't be afraid to bully them around a little either, they _really_ want you to take their job so they can get paid. Keep yoursel f in the driver's seat.
When I was agonizing over a job offer, my dad relayed to me what his PhD advisor told him:
Your family always comes first.
Your career comes second.
Your job comes in third.
I used to work at a major defense contractor.
:-P). I looked at the situation... I had a hell of a lot of seniority (I'd worked there for 17 years), but on the other hand, I was pushing 40, and I had a "now or never" feeling. I gave them my regrets, explained that it had nothing to do with the company, and that while the counter was generous, I really felt that it was just time to leave. No hard feelings, I was told that if I ever wanted to come back, and there was an opening, no problem. Privately, my direct boss told me that even if there wasn't an opening, he'd make one if I needed one. That security blanket was a big help, since I was going to a small start-up.
After two or three layoff rounds, I put my resume out on the web... didn't think too much about it, because I was happy where I was. About 6 months later, I get a call from a recruiter. I get an offer that's about a 20%.
My then-current employer offered to match (sans options, but I wasn't counting on those
I had a friend who accepted there a counter 6 years ago, and he's still there.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
There is no right or wrong answer to this question. Every employer acts differently when placed in a situation where someone that works for them is about to walk out. I say if you are happy with the job, the company is secure, you get along with your bosses, and they are offering more money then I would take it as long as my employer and I had a really good relationship up to this point. Most companies are not out to screw people. Someone on here asked why they hadn't offered them more money before. Well, I think the best answer is that companies don't often review what an employee is worth to them until they have to. Most of them hire people in at market value and then have a set compensation schedule where they get reviewed once a year with a small raise. Most don't pay attention to the job market until it's time to hire or they need to keep someone on that threatens to leave. I bet a lot of people in the tech industry are being overpaid right now in relation to what someone with their same skills is getting on the job market. I know I am and I'm keeping my mouth shut about it. Remember, no one owes you anything in this world.
I have taken counter offers in the past. I've also been given counter offers and turned them down because I felt that I knew the employer well enough that if I stayed my name would be mud and I would never be considered for promotion. Do what your gut tells you and remember that it's only a job.
You should never accept a counter-offer. The company is going to feel that you are disloyal, and will probably find a reason to let you go eventually. And they know that you are antsy and will leave on your own, anyway. And, be honest with yourself - if you are not happy there, you are going to leave eventually.
The counter is usually used just to keep you there long enough to complete current work so that you will not leave them in a lurch.
Do be fair, and give whatever you feel is fair notice. Offer to complete current projects, if that would go beyond the conventional 2-week notice, and negotiate with your new employer to be able to do that. This will score you points with BOTH employers.
Finally, use the counter-offer to obtain a better offer. Let them know that your current employer countered. If necessary, to save face, accept some small token improvement in the offer. Do insist on something. You may be surprised at what they throw your way, though.
When I was in a similar position, I choose not to accept the counter-offer and left for my current employer (now 4 years later...)
As with just about anything, your mileage will vary.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
I don't believe in counter offers much. I went to an old employer and asked for a well deserved raise and was told no. That they didn't feel that I was worth what I was aking. The manager actually told me "If you had another offer on the table, then we'd know you were worth that much." So, I went out and came back with another offer. The guy chuckled and matched the offer cause I had played his hand and won. Well, I simply used my new salary to turn around ask for more money from the next job and left shortly after that.
A lot of times, they'll counter offer so they can keep you on until they can hire your replacement at their pace.
BEWARE THE COUNTER OFFER. I would only consider it, if I asked for a raise first and was turned down.
The best strategy, if you are sure you'd rather stay where you are, is to ask for a raise before accepting the other offer. Just say that you feel you salary is out of line with the current market prices, rather than bringing up the job offer.
This way you won't be branded a traitor by management. Just don't go around bragging about any raise you get to the other employees, though.
If the recruiter offered more money than the current job, and you took the newer higher-paying job, weren't you just bought anyway?
If a counteroffer was made, I'd then go back to the recruiter to see if they could do any better. It's always a good thing to have employers bidding against each other for you!