Slashdot Mirror
Last Word on ADTI Document
kris writes "Linux and Main's Anthony Awtrey put together a very nice analysis of the ADTI "Opening the Open Source Debate" paper before and after the temporary retraction. He came up with some interesting research of just why the paper adressed specific examples such as the FAA and exposes the FUD behind the FUD in the paper."
but second... maybe third... i don't have a fast connection... *sigh*
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
(to the tune of the Kinks' "David Watts")
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
I am a dull and simple geek
Cannot tell Linux from XP
And I still run DOS 3.3
And I wish I could censor on a whim
I wish I could be like Michael Sims
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
And when I jerk off to hentai at night
I dream I could flame like Michael Sims
Drive James and Seth to lunacy
And take their website and claim I'm stalked
Wish I could be like Michael Sims
Wish I could be like Michael Sims
Wish I could be like Michael Sims
Mod myself up like Michael Sims
I wish I could be like Michael Sims
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
He is the head of YRO
He is a member of SlashTeam
He is insightful and funny
And I wish all his modpoints belonged to me
I wish I could be like Michael Sims
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
And all the posters on the site
Try to suck up to Michael Sims
They try their best but can't succeed
'Cause they won't engage in sodomy
Wish I could be like...
Wish I could be like...
Wish I could be like...
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
Fe-fe-fe-feh feh, feh feh feh
(fade out)
(with apologies to Mike Ness)
Well it's been two years and two thousand posts and look at the mess I'm in
A broken heart and an empty journal, an excess of anal skin -
Well I stew and I cook, on my broken down powerbook
And I say about slashdot, that it's not worth another look.
Take away, take away, take away this Karma cap
Well I'm lonely and I'm tired, and I can't read any more crap
Take away, take away, oh my patience surely will snap
Take away, take away, take away - take away this Karma cap
Well I've searched and I've searched, to find the perfect troll
On physics facts or profane shit, or refusal to pay the slashdot toll
But to talk sense on slashdot is to teach a pig to sing -
You can post all day long, and not say anything.
Take away, take away, take away this Karma cap
Well I'm sick and I'm tired, and I can't post any more crap
Take away, take away, oh will Kathleen sit on my lap?
Take away, take away, take away - take away this Karma cap
Well I passed the bar on the way to my dingy hidden sid
I spent all my money - so did LNUX, soon it's delisted
Will I wake up on the Blacklist, or with a Subnet Ban instead?
You don't have to be Kreskin - it's a fact, I'm already dead.
Take away, take away, take away this Karma cap
Well I'm lonely and I'm tired, and I can't post any more crap
Take away, take away, well I do deserve a bitchslap
Take away, take away, take away - take away this Karma cap!
sulli
RTFJ.
I think it's ATI, and I start reading expecting something about video cards... and I'm always disappointed.
This site is ghey.
So take a penis bird, shove it down your pants, let it eat hot grits, while you stare at Natalie Portman naked and petrified...
--Metrollica
original report
-- john
The AdTI report qualifies as well written, but the rebuttals to the AdTI report do not. They BOTH make the mistake that continues to negatively impact the arguments of Open Source/ Free Software advocates: childish personal attacks. Continually repeating phrases like (paraphrasing here) "Microsoft, err, AdTI, says" and "worried about losing the Trophy Wife and the vacation home in the Bahamas" are NOT logical arguments for the superiority of open source software, and they make the open source community look bad. Logic alone will not win the day....
So, while the AdTI piece is certainly poorly researched, corporate pandering tripe, it is likely to have a much MUCH larger impact on policy makers than any rebuttal, not BECAUSE of its accuracy, but because of its tone. Open Source gets bitten by this all the time, and the advocates don't seem to be learning.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Ya think we might, one day, get a non-inflammatory response to the ADTI paper? This latest one is as bad as all the others - filled with deprecating comments written as if the audience was part of the "in-crowd." If you really care about the accuracy of the debate, why waste your time writing a rebuttal article for the linux audience? The ADTI article was not aimed at the linux audience but rather at the suits who don't know the details of the either the politics or the tecnology. A rebuttal written for that target audience is worth more to the forward progress of linux than a hundred of these "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" rebuttals that can only sound like the squabbling of an infant to an outside party.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Craig couldn't believe his luck! Buying the Sunny Day Motel had been the best decision of his life! He had gotten the idea to install hidden cameras in each room from one of those "Candid Camera" shows on television. Right from the beginning Craig knew that this little ten room motel could be a gold mine if it was run "properly"! After taking possession of the motel, Craig got down to the business of installing his hidden cameras and microphones in every unit, until by the time he was finished he had a camera hidden in every room in the place. In a spare room in his own living quarters Craig set up a series of video recorders to capture all of the gory details for posterity! It was always a rush to see unsuspecting people casually take off their clothes, sit on the bed, maybe have a cigarette, make small talk, and then out of the blue reach out and play with the other persons genitals. Once a mousy housewife and her husband took a room for the night, and while Craig wasn't expecting much action from these two, he wasn't even paying much attention until he saw the little "mouse" practically force her husband to suck her pussy. After she was satisfied she took a vibrator out of her bag and shoved it up her husband's ass and for the next two hours they put on a show that was next to unbelievable!!! Craig, of course, had all of it down on tape! On many other occasions Craig had seen women of incredible beauty suck and fuck like they were five dollar whores, looking so prim and proper when they were in his office, but acting like sluts when in the bedroom! Now for a motel with only ten units that only charges $25 for a single and $35 for a double it would be hard to imagine it as being a "gold mine"! Well my friends that is exactly what Craig created when he turned his motel into an "amateur screen test"! After several weeks of taping and editing, Craig began selling his original amateur porn to adult bookstores in the L.A. area. He could get $100 a copy from at least ten different stores, and the stores could then make as many copies as they needed from Craig's originals! Craig had an endless stream of new subjects just driving into his motel that were soon to become stars of the "silver screen"! Craig's favorite situations were when two women would turn out to be lesbians. Sometimes he could get a feel for it ahead of time, but most of the time it was a total surprise. Once he had two teachers in town for a convention downtown. They were staying a the "Sunny" to save some money, and they weren't in their room for five minutes before the buxom blond had her short dark haired associate on her knees eating her hairless pussy! It was quite obvious that this was not the first time she had eaten at the "Y", and later on they both slid their pussies close together and the used a double headed dildo on each other!!! Craig couldn't believe how they worked their pussies until he couldn't see the dildo at all, it was buried deep in their gaping cunts while both of them came with each of them twisting and cupping their tits! The next morning as they checked out Craig couldn't help but smile as he looked over the two dykes! Craig was amazed at the casualness that preceded sex. Many times a woman would be walking around the room doing everyday things when out of nowhere her husband would come up behind her and just take her right there. In most of these cases the woman was more then happy to bend over and let her man fuck her hard and fast from the rear! Craig found out that many woman were really exhibitionists around their own men. It seemed like for many of them being taken at anytime was a real turn on for most of them. The men also liked to show off for their women. When they would get a hardon it was almost inevitable that they would parade it in front of the woman, and in a lot of cases they would stand close enough so that she could touch or suck it. Many times the woman would just play with it as if it were a toy, while still watching TV or talking on the phone. Craig recalled one woman who seemed addicted to her man's cock as from the time they arrived in their room she always had a hold of it. When he went to the john to take a piss, she went with him and even held it while he relieved himself! She then led him by his cock back to the bed where she then laid her head in his lap and used his prick as a pacifier. To her it seemed that this cock was entirely hers and she could do with it as she pleased! Once in a while something really weird would happen that even Craig couldn't believe! In most cases what ever was going on in a particular room Craig had seen something just like it one hundred times before, but maybe once or twice a month something nutty would happen. This time an average looking guy and his wife took a room for one night, nothing to excited about, right? Wrong!!! When they got into their room the two of them took on the roles of mother and baby! The husband took off all of his clothes while his wife got out a huge diaper and a pair of plastic pants! She took a can of baby powder and powdered his crotch and ass just like a she would a baby! She then put on the diaper and rubber pants and talked to him in baby talk, you know, goo goo and all that stuff. She then gave him a pacifier and made him take a nap so when he woke up "crying", she opened up her blouse and stuck one of her nipples in his mouth and nursed him for about twenty minutes. It was pretty plain to see that he now had a huge hardon in his diapers, and when she saw it, she scolded him, turned him over, pulled down his pants and diaper, and then gave him a spanking! When she laid him back down on his back she played with his hard dick until it shot a ton of cum all over her and him! Mind blowing!!! Craig could get $500 for that tape! Now the next time you're in a small town motel and feeling a little "frisky", don't mind that black hole up in the corner of the ceiling! Or maybe I should just say "Smile, you're on porno camera!"
>This site is ghey.
Don't forget about the person who created it and the people who run it. Thanks!
--Metrollica
The ADTI report is written to be read by politicians; the rebuttals I've seen are written to be read by techies. I do hope that anybody who's sending one of these rebuttals to their congresscritter does an editing pass first, though.
It's a post ripped from the last thread where there were rebuttals to the AdTI report.
Liberty.
I am unclear on the context. Where was the article he is commenting on, and who was the intended audience?
Other than me not being clear on that, it was a good article once I got through some rough parts at the beginning. I think this guy should write his own paper on the topic, since he seems to know it and took quite a bit of effort to comment on someone else's.
Can someone clue me in to the context? Should I know the names of the people involved? I don't.
Must be a slow Sunday.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
It's a post ripped from the last thread where there were rebuttals to the AdTI report.
You're quite an effective troll, my friend.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
i put a link to the original paper here.
link here
The author of this rebuttal made an excellent point: software in the Open Source is becoming "mature", not only for server applications but also on the desktop. It does not matter that these products will likely never measure up to the level of proprietary versions of software: once the software is "good enough", it will be adopted by more and more people because it is unencumbered by restrictive and expensive licencing.
It may take awhile longer, but it will happen. Of course, the goal of the proponents of the FUD are hoping to head off this inevitability by legislating Open Source software out of legal existance. To be honest, I think that this really is the only course available to them: Microsoft is going to be in huge trouble (sooner than one may think) if they don't stem the Open Source tide.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
If a software developer makes an application for a customer that contains GPLed code is it considered "distribution" when he delivers the finished product to the customer?
The Article says:
It seems to me that the statement from the article about would conflict Section 3b of the GPL that says if the act of delivering the finished product to the customer constitutes "distribution."
Could someone more knowledgeable about the GPL please enlighten me sbout this?
"reverse engineering harbors very close to IP infringement because and has staggering economic implications."
That is utterly bogus. I spent the first 5 years of my career reverse engineering IBM's PCs (back in the days when IBM was the "bad guy" and Microsoft supplied a fun little OS that freed users from sysadmin tyranny). Due to the efforts of hundreds of engineers like myself at PC "clone" manufacurers, we now enjoy a utopia of cheap, fast, interchangeable PCs supplied by numerous competitors in the marketplace.
Decades of continued reverse engineering between manufacturers as they added improvements has maintained compatibility as the architecture has scaled in performance by over 1000X. The affordable computing power made possible by reverse engineering has provided immeasurably huge benefits to the world's economy.
Unfortunately, the software market has not seen nearly as much reverse engineering and cloning as the hardware market. If it did, we'd all get to keep more of our money to spend as we wish, and we'd have fewer headaches managing and sharing our data.
Sending your money to someone just because they've erected a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you need to use your data does not help the economy or spur innovation. It's more like being taxed to pay for an entitlement program.
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
A temporary retraction? That's like this:
"Hey! You! You are a jerk!"
"Ouch! That hurts!"
"Oh, I'm sorry, I was just kidding around."
"Thanks"
"NEVERMIND! YOU ARE A JERK!"
It's a crappy tactic.
"Oh no, 3 horny women and only 2 condoms...Thank god I read slashdot"
I have yet to read the newly revised version of the ADTI document, but looking at the original doesn't fill me with anger, or the need to go change the world.
It just depresses me. That there are people out there who find nothing better to do with their time and money than to tear other people down.
We have Microsoft machines at my Day Job. And MS SQL servers. And an AS 400. And a Macintosh (granted, only me, but hey, it's a start). And several Novell servers (I love the new licensing scheme.) And a Nokia IPSO box.
They all do a job, they all work together, and when I need to do something new, I look it over, and choose what I need. More often than not, it's Open Source, and everything else is slowly being pushed out (well, except for the Netware boxes - NDS rocks). I don't care about philosphy. I care about cost, performance, and how easy/difficult it is for me to use.
I might read the new version of the ADTI just for the heck of it. Odds are, I won't. It doesn't nothing but tear down, and I have a hard enough time building things to worry about what I should be taking out.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
Last word, my ass. The AdTI paper is so freaking biased and badly written, that we'll be ripping it apart for weeks to come. Unfortunately, it'll do little good until a) a serious and polite rebuttal, aimed at the same kind of people the original paper is aimed at, gets written, and b) it gets diffusion equal or superior to that of the AdTI document. The much maligned, "inflammatory" rebuttals that have been written and published in mostly-linux weblogs are little more than preaching to the choir.
Perhaps some of the big Open Source organizations can help? someone from the Free Software camp? the FSF perhaps?
I say that Microsoft should get it's money back for this report...it is just a re-hash of things that have already been said...
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
There's one more thing about the GPL that most people miss. It is directed to a licensee, not the author. Note from section 7: "Many people have made generous contributions to the wide range of software distributed through that system in reliance on consistent application of that system; it is up to the author/donor to decide if he or she is willing to distribute software through any other system and a licensee cannot impose that choice."
ADTI... biggest, baddest TROLLS in the whole damned world. Thus, YHBT. YHL. HAND!
-- Linus Torvalds
Prediction:
Open Source dominates infrastructure,
Closed Source handles specific markets, where economies of scale are scarce or specific requirements (e.g. performance) dominate.
Our beloved polar opposites, BillyG and RMS, remain the stuff of fond
Maybe Open Source development turns into a journeyman scene,
where you have to pay some dues and contribute to the general welfare prior
to being hired by a 'serious' company with that fat salary. Such an ecosystem might lead to more useful software. Or not.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I want a document that has the 10-20 most often heard arguments representing the FUD companies try to spread about Open Source in general and the GPL in particular, and a clear, concise, relevant, non-inflammatory rebuttal to each.
The author's language, such as "the market is a tough bitch" and "hell yes!" will not fly if I ever want to supply a rebuttal to these kinds of arguments.
Take the original paper's example of "a piece of software an engineer writes that represents 5000 hours worth of work, but uses a GPL component that represents 100 hours of effort. Is the GPL'ed component's requirement to release the original work under the GPL 'fair'?"
The proper rebuttal to this is:
Imagine that an engineer writes a piece of software representing 5000 hours worth of work, but uses a PROPRIETARY component that represents 100 hours worth of effort. That proprietary component has a license that says 'the engineer will pay $10,000, plus some percercentage of revenue the original work generates". There are PLENTY of proprietary products like that. Is that fair?
It is up to the engineer to decide. If his time-to-market is so critical that those 100 hours are worth $10,000 plus a percentage, then that engineer will do it... otherwise, they will just write it. It is a business decision, like any other.
In both cases, the person who wrote the 100 hour effort component OWN THAT WORK, and get to say what the costs of its use will be. The person using it has to decide what costs they are willing to pay.
In GPL, the cost is not financial (at least, not directly). The 'cost' is to release the 'new' product under the same license. Many other licenses (both Open and Proprietary) put 'costs' on that have nothing to do with monetary value.
I want to see 10-20 arguments like this made. they are clear, concise, NON-INFLAMMATORY, and make a point.
No, they won't be in trouble and they have no desire to stop the Open Source movement. Software proprietors love the Open Source movement and Microsoft has never complained about that movement's goals (giving gifts of code to business) or its means (advocating use of non-copylefted Free Software licenses like the X11 and new BSD licenses instead of licenses that preserve software freedom). Microsoft and AdTI complain most about one movement and its chief license: the Free Software movement and the GNU GPL. The GNU GPL is properly recognized as a Free Software license, not an Open Source license.
Also Microsoft has decided to join 'em rather than beat 'em. The most recent AdTI revision is remarkably poorly timed. It would have had some weight if it had been published before Microsoft decided to become a turncoat.
Digital Citizen
This is the paper about Open Source put out by that Microsoft funded (among other) thinktank a little while ago.
Now it all makes sense. Took me the longest time to figure out the connections.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
Michael, if you want this dead horse to die, you can start by not posting it to the front page. From the paucity of comments it's clear that hardly anyone cares about this except you.
If you follow the two links in that post you will note that it is a very subtle troll. Too subtle, in fact, since most people do not realize it's a troll. I'll give it a (+1, Funny) and then two (-1, Overrated).
Yahoo! News was the first to report that linux is officially dead since Linus has quit.
- http://www.adti.net/html_files/technology/ander
s on ad_techtrends020501.html - http://www.adti.net/html_files/technology/purps
q ui rrel_familiarity0201.html - http://www.adti.net/html_files/technology/Westo
n _c ounty_gazette_041901.html - http://www.adti.net/html_files/technology/Stand
a rd _examiner_techtrends041001.html
And so on... Just click through the stories that are ALL pro-Microsoft, anti-Antitrust. Holy Cow. Western Civilization depends on an unfettered Microsoft to lead the technology charge!-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
There is a lot more strangeness tucked away in that document than ever men dreamed of. For example, it was produced from a Microsoft Word document named `sullivan' - who is Sullivan?
Now that it is for sale (!), if anyone wants to see the very last free revision (with some fixed figures etc) with a view to mirroring and linking from here, please email me and ask.
Within a few days (work commitments), an updated and more detailed version of this analysis will be up, including commentary on the diffs. A word-by-word diff is most enlightening. An incomplete summary of the diffs is up here for the curious-but-lazy.
It does look very much like AdTI simply ran the controversy up in order to raise hits, which they are now converting into sales.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Just so you know, Microsoft has had versions of Services for Unix (SFU) to go with every version of NT since the beginning. This isn't new.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Why? If you work with non-expert mainstream users, as I do on a daily basis, you'll find out that they care not one iota about the OS. They are completely invested in their stored data and their time investment in learning how to use their current set of apps. If you want them to move to a different OS it has to have not a set of virtually identical apps, but the ability to use all of their existing docs in a truly seamless fashion. And even that's not enough to get them to switch. Non-expert mainstreamers, almost without exception, hate PC's, and consider them too hard to use. Asking them to undertake the task of relearning a lot of stuff for what they'll see as no net gain in functionality or convenience is a non-starter.
Until Linux can overcome all those hurdles, it's a Windows world. I hate it every bit as much as does anyone else on /. reading this, but that's the way it is.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered A*TI community when IDC confirmed that the A*TI market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all slashdot readers. Coming on the heels of a recent slashdot post which plainly states that A*TI has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. A*TI is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent A*TI Admin comprehensive trolling test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict A*TI future. The hand writing is on the wall: There may be no future at all for A*TI because A*TI is dying. Things are looking very bad for A*TI . As many of us are already awareA*TI continues to lose market share; red ink flows like a river of blood.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
Troll leader Anonymous Coward states that there are 7000 users of A*TI How many users of video cards and surveys are there? Let's see. The number of A*TI versus non-A*TI-related posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 35 to 1.
Major marketing surveys show that A*TI has steadily declined in market share. A*TI is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If it is to survive at all it will be among hobbyists and dilettantes. A*TI continues to falter. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all intents and purposes, A*TI is dead.
what a pathetic way Microsoft is using in defending its pathetic products. if it can't win my "quality" or "innovation", they spread black propaganda. What a bunch of fucknuts...
Thanks, Open Source Community, for helping us improve our document. Please keep sending us patches for it, we will certainly consider them.
(As you know, not many managers read Slashdot, or have much respect for the "Slashdot crowd". No one will listen to your shrill cries of "This is just FUD!" [In fact, I would hazard a guess that there is a fair number of managers who don't even know what the acronym "FUD" stands for.])
Several years ago, IBM introduced the OS/2
operating system. It was supposed to be so
stable that it cannot crash. Microsoft
destroyed that notion via a simple
expedient: a team of MS programmers worked
a whole day and night and created a terminator
disk: a disk which contains software that
crashes OS/2. It was a simple and effective
counterfoil. With a single stroke, Microsoft
demolished the claims IBM made about the
stability of OS/2
Now Microsoft, through ADTI, has made a claim
that the very nature of open source makes
it vulnerable to cracking. Microsoft had
at least since 2000 to make good on that
claim. So you experts from ADTI, answer me
this: Where is the terminator software?
Where is this software or technique that allows
you to crack any and all open-source
software?
One has to think that with all the propaganda
and FUD MS is spreading about open source
security, they should at least have
some proof. Microsoft, a company that
has recruited some of the best programmers
out there is unable to crack Linux.
How could they? MS is in a catch-22 situation
here. If they do find an exploit, they
would have to publish it, and publishing it
effectively allows the OS community
to patch and improve the system.
They will always lose whatever they
do. That's why they are doing this
FUD tactics.
What you described are staggering economic consequences.
you infered bad, which may have been implied, but definatly not stated in the quote you gave. Too many people assume too much about the meanings of words.
For instance, the word passion, which most people would read in a favorable light, is ambiguous as to whether it is good or bad. As my one Enlish professor was fond of saying, "I hate it with a passion."
I wrote a comment on the AdTI paper, trying to outline, paragraph by paragraph, what I think is wrong with the assumptions and claims made, and offering counter examples and alternate visions on the claims made and the truth of the open source movement.
Maybe you think it't worth a read.
I am available for criticism and comment, and will produce a revised version if enough people show interest and provide constructive criticism.
free the mallocs!
To paraphrase the article:
1) I work 5000 man hours working around NT/2000 problems
2) I spend 100 man hours building a solution
Conclusion: My whole work should now belong to M$, because their product represents the majority of work!
:)
In one place, ADTI claimed I said something I didn't say, and in others ADTI intentionally carefully quotes only part of what I said.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
Now'll I have to pour hot grits over my petrified Natalie Portman before having goatse.cx
but the domain leon.brooks.fdns.net doesnt appear to exsist. email me :)
-- john
When I looked at that site, and followed the link to the material on Putnam, and his analysis of civic associations, this quote just about blew me away given the current context:
Now if that doesn't embody the Open Source community, I don't know what does. And here's an organization named after de Tocqueville that seems clueless as to what he valued!
You can rant about "right-wingers" if you wish, but some of us on the "Right" place value on conserving more enduring values such as those de Tocqueville celebrated, and not in "Country Club" Big Business-centric loyalties of politicians of both parties (see how much money Democrats get from big business, which prudently plays both sides of the fence ;-). Many of us on the Right value the human right of free enterprise (and association), in contrast with big enterprise. See also Eric Raymond's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", with respect to his notion of the "Gift Culture". And, as I recall, he would consider himself to be more of the Right (libertarian variety?), than of the Left.
ROC
The report may originally have been intended for GA Sullivan, who are quite obviously lovestruck with Microsoft at the moment, or initiated by Greg Sullivan, an MS product manager wishing hard that XP had been more successful.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing