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Disney Making Fake Crop Circles?
GuNgA-DiN writes: "It seems that Disney has been busy trying to promote their upcoming movie 'Signs' (by M. Night Shyamalan). There is an interesting article from some guys who REALLY follow and study crop signs: Paul Anderson of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network has reason to believe that they will be creating some man-made formations to promote the forthcoming movie. Anderson cites a competition or sweepstakes currently being promoted on the official 'Signs' website." Remember, patronize only genuine alien-swirled crop circles!
I'm shocked, shocked!
Isn't that kind of redundant?
Better yet, don't patronize any crop circles at all, since it's destruction of property (how would you like it if a bunch of jokers spray painted your house or car, or broke into your computer and muddled around with the files? It's all the same -- destruction of property). If Disney's really doing this, then I expect to see a rash of lawsuits against them as well.
Of course, if you believe that crop circles really are made by aliens, well ... I guess it's time to break out the ol' tin foil hat.
The original "crop circles" were later admitted to be a hoax. However, when I tried to run a search for that information to show it here, I couldn't find it among the deluge of sites like this one which claims that "most serious researchers" believe that they are from "supernatural intelligence" and give quasi-religious defense for that... Where is the Amazing Randi when I need him?
Get off my launchpad!
This guy is really big into the crop circle alien conspiracy thing, now he's thinking that there is a disney conspiracy too? Maybe he's too paranoid? Smoking a bit too much of the reefer?
---
sfx
short intro, and the homepage of Dansk Korncirkel Central.
Any Disney crop circles will have a little (C) mark somewhere nearby.
And maybe some mouse ears.
..... Walt Disney was really an alien? That explains the Disney characters..... it was all an attempt to convince us that weird looking creatures with big black ears were our friends - damn those mouseketeers
I wonder what type of weird experiments happen behind closed doors at Disneyland in those areas marks "Employees Only".....
- HeXa
13 comments. their counter says 20941
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
On the other hand, if Disney goes to Canada to make crop circles, we can reasonably claim the crop circles were made by aliens. But if Disney hires Canadians to make the crop circles in Canada, are the circles still considered to be the work of aliens? This is actually a very important topic of discussion, because crop circles have historically been produced by illegal aliens who are not only underpaid and overworked, they're not paying income tax. I don't know about Canada, but the IRS has a whole division devoted to hunting these tax evaders.
The only thing certain is that these circles will probably appear in threes -- two smaller circles sitting atop a larger circle -- and a pop musician will be performing in the center of each one.
...if the aliens just got tired of doing these designs and decided to have us humans do them ourselves in a mask of PR and prizes. :)
I wonder what disney will do to promote "The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy".
Destroy earth with big yellow space ships , perhaps ?
The latest issue of Scientific has an enligtening short article on the fine mischief of crop circles. (no doubt released in a timely manner in an effort to counter some of the nonsense from the release of the movie Signs.)
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
It seems fairly likely that Disney would want to create some hype for the film by commissioning man made crop signs. The only 'harm' to researchers would be if Disney never discloses doing so. Just as the Blair Witch cast was under contract to avoid all media attention until after the hype had died down I see little reason for Disney NOT to disclose not only which circles they commissioned, but how they did it as well. This final media thrust could even help researchers identify fake signs in the future.
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
I know some people that were going to go to a field and make their own designs with crops. They were drawing them out on peices of paper and trying to come up with things that were vauge yet apeared to have meaning. They were going to use big-ol-flat boards to do it with. I have no idea if they ever got around to doing it.
"Oh, I saw the sign.. and it opened up my mind; I saw the sign." *Whacks self several times*
Ok, you certainly must KNOW that a geocities link will only take so much bw before it tanks, and is removed by geocities. Why the hell do you link to a geocities site then? Why not mirror the thing first? Or find a google cache of the site?
/. effect, but really. You KNOW that Geocities is going to block
access above a certain number of hits per day.
So why not link to the google cache? It
just takes a second for /. editors to research
this.
I know it's impossible to predict which sites will fall with the
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Just look at the ears on this one.
http://www.circlemakers.org/
i see a whole lot of "people who believe in aliens are crazy" jokes.. pretty disheartening for a website supposedly so technically inclined
.. in case you don't know he's a nationally syndicated talk show host whose show airs late at night (he was recently ranked #1 talk show host in America, above Rush Limbaugh) he also has been following recent developments in crop circles which ave been popping up all over the world (mostly in europe) in tandem wtih various cattle mutilations (argentina)
perhaps you should check out some of the more recent ones on www.artbell.com
if you see the pics they are quite elaborate and definitely not natural, and for having been done in a single night Disney would have had to put down some serious money.. espeically considering the biggest one is right next to StoneHenge (correct me if i'm wrong but Disney still releases movies in teh US first)
i dunno what they look like to you but they look like hints at the solar flares from 2012 that the mayans predicted.. my $.02
disclaimer: this is neither a troll nor am i a lunatic (NATOL)
Here's a mirror ->
Click here
The crop circle thing is actually quite interesing. I 've always thought it was generally FUD, but the evidence seems to point elsewhere.
Just another example of the weirdness of 'nature'.
The crop circles were made by a couple of fellows from Winchester named Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. They made the circles for years at night, and Bower even kept the secret from his wife for seven years. When they finally told the public, few people believed them, and the UFO crowd still insists that the hoax was not the crop circles but the claim of authorship. (ObNeologism: ("cereology" -- those who study crop circles.) Never mind that Bower and Chorley have the original designs and dates, signed the drawings with "DD," and other supporting evidence. Of course, there is also Doug Bower's statement that he was programmed by UFOs to make the circles. Sigh.
Some links:
An interview with Doug Bower
An article by Carl Sagan on crop circles
Circlemakers, an art group creating crop circles
flip
...bend over.
Here's another conspiracy theory for you. Disney is making crop circles because it's run by aliens! All crop circles are made by aliens, it's just that they are aliens in human forms. That way they can just claim is was a "hoax" while all the time beaming messages back up to the mother ship, where an army of Bill Gates clones waits for the oppurtunity to strike and install Windows on everything! Techonology will be set back to prehistoric times!
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Will Disney be able to sue for IP infringement if "real" crop circles look similar to the Disney ones?
Well... as long as they're circles, and are made in crops, they're real crop circles...
Anyway, here's an interesting HOWTO you can follow to create your own circles. Here's an excerpt: ;)
How long before IBM starts creating crop Tuxen?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
anyone..anyone...questions?
yeah..what is wrong with you, man? all you talk about is ghosts and aliens and seeing bigfoot in your garage!
he was using the belt sander...
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
Crop-circles are a clearly man made form of art, if they were alien, you would not recognise the art in any form, because they must (if they exist) have a very different way of thinking about art than we do.
Ordo Militum Unix.
The problem here is that we place all the possible cases
under the name "exploit".
However, a "buffer overflow" is very different from a "backdoor".
A backdoor would be: code that stores your keystrokes when you
type a password and sends them over to haxors.nsm.com
Obviously a backdoor needs quite a lot of source code to
be implemented and therefore could not go unnoticed in an
open source product.
Any open source product could contain buffer overflows but not
backdoors.
The case of somebody finding a buffer overflow in the linux kernel
that has not been seen by the other 200 people who study the code
is very rare.
And even if one finds such an exploit. He can:
1. post his finding in the kernel mailing list and get credit
2. use this to haxor into linux systems (not always possible),
until the exploit is discovered by someone else and fixed
(that's very little time).
On the other hand, we have no idea what the executable of windows
does. Some say that 20% of the code is backdoor related and another
10% contributed by NSA.
Can we trust windows?
90% of the secretaries use windows.
Is the world safe?
The differences are: silicon added to the list of atomic numbers, different DNA and nucleotides, different "stick figure" and stats, other planets highlighted in the solar/star system and a completely different transmitter.
I fail to understand people's logic.
:-D ) but why don't farmers just file lawsuits against those who destory their fields? That would certainly take it out of the realm of the supernatural. Not to mention stoping the recurrance of this 'phenomenon'.
'Flying Saucers' were NEVER seen until one report back in the 60s got quite widespread. Then everyone reported seeing them everywhere.
Even worse, Alien abductions follow the same line. It NEVER happens to ANYONE in thousands of years... One day someone reports it happening. Then it suddenly happens to EVERYONE.
Crop circles are at least understood as fakes by most people because someone came out and admitted to doing them (despite expert opinions that people could not do such a thing
P.S. Next time you see Big Foot/Yeti and the Nesse/The Lockeness Monster, tell them Elvis said "Hi". I missed them at the last Christmas party.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Hmm
What would happen if we compaerd Bush ethics to crop circles?
1 We would find that both don't exist on a scientific basis but a whole alot of dumb people bleieve in them!
2. We would find that they are are mostly formed around midnight.
3. We would be showered with more ah can;t answer that..top secret
Don't Tread on OpenSource
as does this slashdot posting.
I would offer that this Slashdot posting and the Geocities site are all part of Disney's guerrilla advertising. Kinda like Blair Witch.
Eh ?
Why must aliens have a completely different way of thinking about art? It might be improbable, but aliens could have evolved along a different path to a similar conclusion, like how dolphins and whales look like fish, but are really descended from land mammals.
Note that I'm not saying that crop circles are really made by aliens. I saw an article in the most recent scientific american about how easy it is to make 'authentic' crop circles. The simplest solution is usually the right one, Occam's razor and all...
--
Seeing is believing; You wouldn't have seen it if you didn't believe it.
Why would a civilization of superior beings travel the who-knows-how-many light years from their own planet to earth just to destroy crops, mutilate cattle and anal probe some rednecks? Granted, some of those rednecks could use a good anal probing, but still.
DISCLAIMER: This is a troll and I am a lunatic
If you don't have anything nice to say, shut up you stupid prick.
As far as the scientific study goes, and as far as the originator of the first crop circle themselves admited, they were all fakes from the beginning. I find this snippet on the parent post more insightful or even informative than funny...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
..how long is it until Disney declares that crop circles are 'their intellectual property' and starts suing the rest of the multiverse?
Well even if they arent all man made, soon we will find out how convincing man made crop circles are compared to whatever else is making them
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Theres no way anyone in their right mind can believe one guy, or a handful of guys make them all.
Maybe when they were just circles i could believe some of those dumb looking guys did it, but now they are getting more complicated in shape, some of them would be damn hard to draw on paper, you'd need precise measurements just to draw it on paper so whoever is doing them now is putting a great deal of effort into them.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_sacredgeo 2.html
I suppose some people need an outlet for their artwork and crop circles are the answer
of course it could be aliens, but i really doubt aliens would ever communicate with us, what would they have to gain by doing so?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Well, we all knew that the disney dudes were behind the crop cirkels ... who else!!
whats the point of stayingn up all night sneaking into crops around the world to make silly designs?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
on my next visit to Diney world/land
-
Why would any alien intelligence capable of interstellar travel would choose to communicate using circles in corn but apparently not be able to figure out binary, or radio.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Disney only knows how to fake!
For example:
Fake Mouses
Fake Ethics
Fake concern about Fair Use Rgihts in Copyrights
Fake concern about consumers
Disney should just rename themselves Fakes'R'US
Don't Tread on OpenSource
No need for Disney to actually go to the trouble of creating "fake" crop circles. Just by planting the rumor that they might possibly do it has generated plenty of free publicity including this Slashdot article.
...that a crop circle hoax has been used for corporate marketing. The History Channel commissioned a hoax recently...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Somewhere in orbit...
CmdrZarx: Have the communications gone out, 3rd-blue-grade solider Narx?
Narx: Yes, excellency. Soon the humans will quake in fear when they learn of our... I'm sorry, excellency.. I'm receiving some rather disturbing news over the sub-ether...
CmdrZarx: What is it, Narx?
Narx: Uh... the humans have made their own circles, and are running a sweepstakes.. they seem very popular... wait.. something about a 'Led Zeppelin'...
CmdrZarx: No no no.. a zeppelin? Don't they know those circles are our parking instructions!?! Forget it, invade immediately.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Imagine if it were humans, landing on another planet, only to find the natives imitating our "footprints" everywhere. Do you think we'd take that as a sign of intelligence?
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
I wonder what type of weird experiments happen behind closed doors at Disneyland in those areas marks "Employees Only"
Disney theme park employees are called "Cast Members" or "CMs".
Will I retire or break 10K?
Strategy 1: Make fake crop circles in an attempt to raise publicity for movie.
Strategy 2: Make fake conspiracy about making fake crop circles in an attempt to get a good old-fashioned slashdotting.
All crop circles are made by aliens, it's just that they are aliens in human forms.
Last year, my dorm room was between dorm rooms inhabited by aliens: one from United Arab Emirates and one from Peru.
I don't think that many people here have taken note of this, but crop circles are illegal. Crops are destroyed, property lost, and hence aliens, Disney, or whoever creates these things should be brought to justice for their crimes. So I could se a reason for Disney for not wanting to be associated with any crop circle hoaxes.
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
I have read of some interesting phenomenon in a few of the circles investigated. Molecular changes at the base of the stalks causing them to bend, rather than break. (do that with a 2x4!) and magnetic issues inside the circle formations.
I agree that most of them are man made, and probably the most intricate ones are man made as well.. but I also remember reading with a giggle as the SKeptic Observer reported definitively that they were being made by "mating hedgehogs".
I feel safe in saying we dont KNOW they are all man made, but we do know a lot of them are.
Check here: for more info. This guy seems to be a genuine researcher who accepts it when his hypothesis dont come out right.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
A story at Teletext a month ago claims that a source at Buena Vista actually suggested that they were indeed planning to create their own crop circles, and even inform the public (subtly) which ones were their creations.
-spc
http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html
Blair witch? What hype --- feel kinda cold now, but anyway i went ta that stream and .............
There are very few areas as totally full of FUD, lies, tinhat loonies, and embarassing fools as UFOlogy. Furthermore the X-Files are over, time has passed, and we've all moved along with our lives to more productive endeavours.
Certainly one of the many things which has been lacking for decades when the notion of government knowledge of the UFO phenomenon comes up is, umm, you know, evidence. Now if, for instance, several hundred government insiders were to come forward with sworn affidavits testifying to their knowledge of the government's involvment in actual alien-linked technology, and with a stated willingness to stand before any government or private body and tell all, the outlook might be a bit different.
Very few people seem to know that this did in fact happen about two years ago. You say you didn't see it on the news? No, you didn't.
I hate to post this as a reply to a loony thread like "crop circles", but I'd be curious about people's opinions of the The Disclosure Project, run by one Dr. Steven Greer (a medical doctor, not a scientist). Just to be clear, I'm no convert, but I my curiosity was certainly at least piqued by the site. And I'm sure as hell not going to risk my professional credibility by posting this as anything other than AC. :)
My 'technically inclined, scientific' mind says: The guy who went on TV, explained that he did crop circles, that it was blown way out of proportion, then went out with his buddies into a field one night and demonstrated, on film, how to make a crop circle in one night without being detected is probably indicative of all crop circles.
I remember how 'experts' kept saying that they were too perfect, could not be done in a single night, etcetera.
Of course, then the 'experts' had to scrutinize it and come up withe never-before-heard reasons why it is obviously fake. Of course, easy for them to say when they KNOW it's fake, instead of wanting to believe it's true. Perception is a powerful thing.
You're right that the Maya didn't predict solar flares in 2012.
But the Maya didn't even predict a planetary convergence, the end of the world, or anything else in 2012.
Their calendar merely ends. It's unclear what they thought the significance was, but at least one Mayan document talks about events after 2012, so they clearly didn't think that the world was going to end.
by man. Please give me a break and give this alien watching thing a break. This continent (N. America) could pay off the respective national depts with the money farmed out to groups like this and SETI. Just stop funding them and voila, no dept!
-- DuckWing
...it might be fake.
Any chance that M. Night Shyamalan's story is about a farmer getting hoaxed by drunken unemployed locals with a 1x4 and some rope?
Gah, of course, I have not seen the movie yet, so I'm basically trolling, but this seems like a poor cousin of Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and frankly, seems like the kind of semi-SF hollywood does not need to be making.
This Disney-AOL-Time-Warner Crop Circle was brought to you by a generous grant from Wheaties (a wholly owned subsidiary of General Mills). [crop circle of champions?]
-braxton
CSICOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) has several informative reports debunking crop circles including Joe Nickell's Investigative Brief into Levengood's Crop Circle Plant Research.
If you're interested in more informed discussion, check out the CSICOP Mailing List, where this topic (Disney's Crop Circle promotion) is also current.
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
"Signs" is awesome. I'd recommend it to anyone. Go see it in the theater (i will when it comes out) or, if you are boycotting the MPAA, go download the VCD/SVCD off USENET. alt.binaries.vcd.
This isn't the first time a movie studio has come up with an elaborate scheme to promote a movie.
One that comes to mind was the game associated with the release of "Artificial Intelligence". The studio left clues hidden in billboards, interviews, and answering machine messages that led players on a complex hunt over the Internet that told a story related to the movie. It had quite a following up until the end.
For those of you interested in the whole plot of the thing, a group called the Cloudmakers documented all of the puzzles and clues. It's a pretty interesting read.
Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
CSICOP Press Release Responding to Crop Circle and Disney's Signs
Just a link, because I'm in a hurry: http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.htm
MSK
The fact that nobody has come forward to claim this prize, again, as I understand the general argument of the Skeptic, is evidence that such phenomenon probably do not exist.
There are some fairly obvious flaws with this argument, and the fact that they fail to immediately register with the otherwise often intelligent Skeptic, I think demonstrates something significant.
Some of the problems I have with Randi's challenge are as follows. . .
--Essentially, believe what you want. No collection plate will be passed, no representative will come to your door, and above all, nobody with any wisdom is going to worry about what you believe. Your faith is your own problem; find your own way, and do try to have fun with it.The nice thing is, when you are ready, teachers will emerge who will guide you. That's how the universe works.
-Fantastic Lad
Especially since farmers are usually poor, some kids going around destroying their fields as a stupid prank must really piss them off. As everyone who has ever been a victim of a crime can tell you, the police are totally useless... maybe the farmers should get dogs or something to patrol the fields. As long as people continue to think that vandalism and property destruction is "cool" we are going to have problems like this.
I'd guess "fake" means you'd start by drinking fake beer like Buttwiper^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hudweiser.
Maybe they were just tired of making calendars??? Maybe they ran out of parchment or ink??? Also I don't see too many people making calendars for the year 3012 right now..
Those of you who were paying attention might remember that about a year ago, there was no such thing as crop circles. The only reason you think you've already heard of them now is because Disney has messed with the timeline.
Now you know why Disney really needed to extend the copyright term... When you're creating works in the past, you need that extra time!
I've seen dust devils (sortof miniature tornadoes, common in croplands) make interesting patterns in grainfields, by flattening the stalks as the dust devil passes over them. A dust devil will follow extremely small irregularities in the ground, whether natural or such as those left by circle irrigators, or dirt packed by vehicles, presumably because of temperature and airflow gradiants. On perfectly even ground, it'll tend to move in circles or spirals, presumably per the math of stuff affected by the earth's rotation. So a pattern of spirals or interlocking circles isn't too unusual as a result (albeit not as tidy as manmade examples).
;)
I've seen a very large dust devil (about 300 feet high, 100' wide at the top and 25' across at the base) follow the curves of a gravel road for over a mile (and it went *around* a car that happened to be in its way at a crossroads -- quite a sight!!) This road also acted as a thermal barrier when the airport behind it fogged up -- fog always ended at the road as cleanly as if it'd been cut with a giant knife.
BTW you can demonstrate dust devils' tendency to go around objects and continue on in their original line of travel -- just try "catching" a small one by getting in its way. It'll go around you every time (or even "run the other way"), doubtless because of how your being there changes the airflow.
I can easily imagine a pair of somewhat tipsy and mischievious fellows watching a dust devil moving in circles and smashing grain, and saying, "Hey, we can do that, only better!!"
I have somewhat more trouble imagining why aliens would give a shit about making crop circles (if it's communication they want, surely they can be more direct about it!) unless it's really a biohazard marking to warn their fellows.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Remember: only genuine crop circles have the Alien Crop Circle Union Label (tm).
Oh god. How is it that there are so many lunatics posting freely on Slashdot? I suppose the real question is are these people stupid, gullible, or just plain insane?
And Authority, (Respected Bodies of Scientists) are NEVER going to place their jobs and reputations in jeopardy by admitting that they were wrong, that Magic exists and the $20 New Orleans psychic had it right the whole time. Just won't happen.
Only it has happened, many times. Many physicists have shown themselves to be quite credulous, which is why the best debunkers tend to be magicians.
People who get too successful in convincing the world of phenomenon outside the accepted realm of science are ridiculed, tormented, punished and murdered. Or nailed to crosses. Take your pick. There is, quite simply, NO way that a person with genuine abilities would be allowed to change the whole Western belief paradigm by way of James Randi's little challenge. --Think about it. Even in the corridors of accepted science, researchers are regularly assassinated for rocking the boat.
Right. Do you also believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
Can you please point out any evidence of researchers being "regularly assassinated"? Beyond the biochemist thing, which is troubling but not necessarily evidence of a conspiracy?
James Randi has too much personal stake in his 'Quest for Truth'. Remember the last time you were caught out and shown to be 180 degrees of wrong in a subject you were not just spouting with authority for years, but upon which you based massive amounts of self-worth? Perhaps this has never happened to you. Perhaps you are very good at the denial game, (which allows you to continue living in a wishful thinking daydream and not feel like a damned fool). This is James Randi. I strongly suspect that he would do almost anything to prevent himself from being proven wrong in a massive public forum. This is the kind of bias James Randi comes installed with. He has NOTHING to do with truth, and everything to do with witch hunting and serving his ego-based agenda.
Only that James Randi's challenge includes an independent judging panel agreed upon by both he and the testee. Go read how the Randi challenge is set up; it's a fair, even-handed way to test supposed supernatural powers. And on another note, he HAS been proven wrong, just not on supernatural/alien issues; check his web page. He freely admits this.
As chance would have it, I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities but who, a) Have never heard of James Randi and his little propaganda machine, b) have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them, that they instinctively cringe away from such mean-spirited (and most likely fixed) public challenges like Randi's; they would probably shrivel up and die if forced to stand on a stage facing a million eyes determined to see only what they want to see, and to pour out only scorn and disbelief regardless of what is demonstrated
Then tell them to take the test and make a million dollars. There are thousands of people who are convinced they have powers. In controlled experiment settings, they're always proved wrong. ALWAYS. The powers evaporate, leaving a string of excuses, evasions, and prevarications.
So, I read your comment. Read your sig. At exactly that moment, that line popped up on the random itunes playlist I'd made (random 25 toad songs). I'm still dazed.
Triv
And here I thought Crop Circles were used to calibrate sattelite based telescopes (not just the Hubble).
AIK
The symbols is real the intergalactic
form of a domain name.
If you meditate over the symbol you
can connect to the information
from the intergalactic Internet.
So, the crop circles is a
intergalactic form of spam mails.
All crop circles are man-man. All it takes is a 2x4 and a couple inventive guys with nothing better to do with there nights.
PGA
"I am Paul G. Allen and I don't do Windows."
Just because he can't figure out the methods of 1 out of 5 circles doesn't mean he's stupid. If someone finally shows him how to do it, he might think "Wow, that was clever", regardless of how obvious it might seem to the pranksters. It just means that 20% of the "artists" are smarter than he is.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Well, I guess they must have succeeded then if they're going through the trouble. Personally, I'm concerned that some enterprising Disney executive is going to decide that it would be real cool to start up a Disney franchise in ancient Egypt or the like. We don't all need to be worshipping mouse-headed dieties, right? Not that you'd notice...
Evidence is virtually impossible to legitimize.
If you can bend a spoon, or whatever, under controlled conditions, then you have legimate enough evidence to win the million dollars. It's not like Randi is going to let someone edit in something.
Even video tape of a shuttle launch, shot with the most expensive 'movie quality' equipment could be argued as fake by somebody with such a bent.
Sure. But the claim that science makes, is that I can go down to Houston one evening and watch the shuttle launch. Science is open to people to people looking over their shoulder; even if I'm not looking over their shoulder at this time, I can trust someone else is.
People who get too successful in convincing the world of phenomenon outside the accepted realm of science are ridiculed, tormented, punished and murdered.
Just look at the bloody way John Edwards died, just when people were starting to hear of him.
Science works by proof, and so far has been very succesful at changing the world around us using that proof. All it demands of psychic powers is the same thing.
Commercial crop circles done by some pretty professional groups of crop circle makers has been going on for years and are known by those who know any better (sorry Timothy!), and known by ALL serious crop cirlce investigators. Especially the ones who believe in their reality. The man made circles are quite easy to pick out when you know what to look for
Sorry, but this just simply isn't news.
Commercial crop circles done by some pretty professional groups of crop circle makers has been going on for years and are known by those who know any better (sorry Timothy!), and known by ALL serious crop cirlce investigators. Especially the ones who believe in their reality. The man made circles are quite easy to pick out when you know what to look for
Sorry, but this just simply isn't news.
In the shape of mickey mouse right?
Remember, patronize only genuine alien-swirled crop circles!
:)
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?
Personally I find the whole idea of aliens going down to the planets surface at night to write "interstellar graffiti" to be completely full of crap. If they wanted to come and communicate with us, why do so in this method? Obviously we can't figure out what they mean, only that they get more complex as time goes on. (Which to me just proves they are fake, people are trying to outdo each other.) If we can't understand the simple symbology of early crop circles, why would they come back and leave more cryptic ones? Something tells me that an alien race that is capable enough to use spacetravel to get all this way, would be smart enough to communicate with us without using stupid symbols stamped out in remote fields.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
i really wanted to watch that in the theaters, but i don't support disney or their senators.
I'm still waiting for one that says,
.sig)
"How are you gentlemen! All your grain are belong to us!!"
- MFN
(move
"Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
Many physicists, yes. -And while some of them have made mistakes, which is natural when exploring new ideas, some of them have also been right. In any case, I said, "Respected Bodies of Scientists" and I phrased it that way specifically so that the objection you raised would not be valid. The editorial staff of Nature, for instance, is very likely going to have a huge bias against printing something which might make people like you call them silly no matter how good the evidence and logic. They have lives and wives to worry about. I was trying to point out the strong biases which exist, and I believe I have done so. Next point. . .
Right. Do you also believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
Let's see. . .
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, don't know what you mean, yes, never heard of them, don't know, and which theory of Atlantis specifically?
Listing a lot of different bits of 'taboo' thinking does not dubunk anything; it's just a sloppy attempt at ridicule, (one of the Skeptic's favored weapons and one which stands in stark, almost sad contrast to their supposed stance of scientific reductionism. Real scientists don't resort to school yard tactics when their ideas are challenged. Fearful children do this. And so does Randi). Please try again.
Can you please point out any evidence of researchers being "regularly assassinated"? Beyond the biochemist thing, which is troubling but not necessarily evidence of a conspiracy?
This is an example of exactly what I'm talking about when I say that no evidence is good enough for somebody who has already made up their mind. You find the 'biochemist thing' troubling, but not so much as to actually make you think in new ways? Hm. So in that case, no, I can't point out any evidence which will convince you. This does not mean that there isn't plenty of it out there; there is. Many of the greats, and many less famous scientists have been bullied, persuaded, mind-controled and, yes, in the harshest of circumstances, even killed. Go get over your mental blocks, and then go do some research.
Only that James Randi's challenge includes an independent judging panel agreed upon by both he and the testee. Go read how the Randi challenge is set up; it's a fair, even-handed way to test supposed supernatural powers. And on another note, he HAS been proven wrong, just not on supernatural/alien issues; check his web page. He freely admits this.
I spent about five minutes hunting through his website, but I was unable to find the reference to his having been proven wrong. I don't doubt you, because I know he has been, but I guess he burried mention of it deep on page 7. Although, I did notice something else. . .
In the first few lines in the first article next to his photograph, he writes: "The scam-artists delight in reaching back for ancient ideas, particularly those that bear some real value, and then they distort it all into flummery -- which as we know, sells exceedingly well"
And then barely half a page down, we see well positioned among the other main buttons a Donations option. "Through your support the JREF is able to continue its efforts. Help us today through a donation. You can do so easily using PayPal."
Hmm. . .
I'm not saying that there isn't a ton of greed and lying existing in the New Age market. But how is it that debunkers are allowed to ask for money in order to publish their information, but that people writing books I might want to read are penalized for the same thing? Is it because James Randi is a hypocrite? --And one so vastly over-stuffed that he doesn't see the irony on his own home page?
There are thousands of people who are convinced they have powers. In controlled experiment settings, they're always proved wrong. ALWAYS. The powers evaporate, leaving a string of excuses, evasions, and prevarications.
No. Only in the controlled experiment settings you choose to look at. --Which again cuts directly to my point that the Evidence skeptics cry for is, for all intents and purposes, unattainable. There have been a wide number of studies which have given positive results of various phenomena. But a good study doesn't mean good marketing. James "the Amazing" Randi, however, is a self promoter first and foremost, and he is supported by wealthy forces which want to see his, "Go Back To Sleep Citizen," message spread far and wide.
-Fantastic Lad
Think about how pissed you'd be to one morning find that your prize wheat field has been trampelled into cute circle patterns by some drunken geeks with too much time on their hands. It would make you what to get out the ole shotgun for sure. Not like the farm industry has the largest profit margins as it is.
Touchstone Pictures == Disney
If you can patent .jpg's and hyperlinks, Lord only knows the fun you could have by patenting this little corner of the patent universe...
Make the Source Forge ads stop, Mommy!
You need a FREE iPod Nano
James "the Amazing" Randi, however, is a self promoter first and foremost, and he is supported by wealthy forces which want to see his, "Go Back To Sleep Citizen," message spread far and wide.
And that's why James Randi has his own highly rated television show on Sci-Fi and John Edwards is a relative unknown except among a few geeks.
Or how about a proof to a long-standing math puzzle?
Or the where-abouts of Jimmy Haffa's body in map form?
Or the source code to Windows XP?
Naw, that would starve the nation because it would kill too many crops.
Table-ized A.I.
But how is it that debunkers are allowed to ask for money in order to publish their information, but that people writing books I might want to read are penalized for the same thing? Is it because James Randi is a hypocrite?
And I bet James Randi doesn't approve of those people who send out the Nigeran letters asking help to embezzle millions, either. What a hypocrit. Wait a second, though; I assume since you think that he should encourage people to give money to his oppenents as well as him, you're a steady donater to him?
-
the Evidence skeptics cry for is, for all intents and purposes, unattainable. There have been a wide number of studies which have given positive results of various phenomena.
Well, well. The scientific method suggests (among other things) that anything that can be disproven is scientific. Every discovery, to be called scientific, must have some way to be shown false. This is true for all current scientific theories and some past ones, for example Newtonian physics - that have been proven wrong since.So, to make my point short: You claim we should believe "various" phenomena (crop circles, I guess). Care to suggest an experiment that could disprove their validity? If the experiment is well-designed, I'm sure Randi would accept to go through that experiment.
You say there are many reviews that show positive results. Care to share references?
Of course, I'm the kind who confuses Close Encounters of the Third Kind with Closet Encounters of the Nerd Kind (a wonderful spoof of the other) while watching them to the point that it doesn't matter which one I'm watching - I'm waiting for the singing pastries :-)
He is just riding on the fame of the original Amazing Randy!!!
What a bunch of new age bunk. Did you take this from some sappy sci fi book?
First thing that came to my mind. Just after S11, a string of researchers around the world found a large deviation from the norm of sources of randomness which they were observing.
A sec while I google this. There for example, a study which suggests 1)that the world is linked as Gaia, 2) there was forknowledge of the events, as the curve of randomness deviated from it's baseline about 2 hours before the strikes.
Karma:This parrot is dead! (and so is the joke.)
Well, I don't know. Many scientific theories cannot be directly falsified (evolution and global warming leap to mind) but are widely regarded as the best extant explanations for the data. They have explanatory power, make predictions are what we will observe in unseen data, and are supported by a preponderance of evidence which is more parsimoniously explained by the theory than by any competitor.
Direct falsification is only one particular method of testing theories. Not that this has much to do with UFOs, etc.
Totally agree with you here.
Karma:This parrot is dead! (and so is the joke.)
A truly odd result, to be sure. I guarantee that nothing will ever come of it, as it falls into that cursed grab-bag of oddities that fall so far outside of the realm of the currently explainable that it will never be given anything other than a dismissive snort by the powers that be.
Movies I will no longer support==Touchstone Pictures
Despite your firm belief otherwise, the evidence gathered at genuine crop circles cannot be accomplished by simply pushing over the stalk until it breaks. You obviously have ZERO understanding of genuine crop circles, and need to educate yourself to prevent further episodes of disinformation.
http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/faq.htm l
http://amo.net/Contact/
Human beings aren't so special; organic life is but one of the many amazingly complex configurations matter can achieve. One could easily argue that Earth is much more complex and amazing. It is quite ironic then that beings who consider themselves so intelligent would dismiss the entire crop circle phenomenon as illegitimate.
What I find most humorous is the fact that even though the phenomena has many unanswered questions, and their content appears to be of an informational nature, and the technique is impossible to accurately rerecreate with current technologies... the so-called "intelligent" species on THIS planet states that an other-worldly intelligence would use more "advanced" forms of communication.
I hope you take this message seriously. You ARE wrong.
What's a second? An hour? A day?
It has much more to do with
the Earth's rotation than with cesium.
...for the big guns in the sky.
The accuracy with which these "images" are "drawn" seems to fall into two categories, foot-trodden, and laser-like. Many seem, to me, to be the latter.
Some of these images are very complex, and yet so accurately drawn, that the very notion they were trod out with plank and rope by a couple of old codgers (or a team of college students even) is pretty unthinkable. They would need sight lines and all sorts of technique for making sure each one of their stompings went right where it's supposed to -otherwise they'd not look so perfect as they do, no?
These highly accurate-looking images are, in my view, a combination test pattern and non-subtle message, imaged with microwave or other high-energy, non-visible laser, mounted on an orbital "Star Wars" missile defense test platform.
The message being, "notice the accuracy with which we draw on your front lawn? we can focus that beam on anybody who pisses us off!" (except Saddam or Osama, inexplicably) There was a hilarious scene along these lines at the begining of the Val Kilmer movie "Real Genius".
An article in New Scientist Magazine asked "How long before we see a manifestation of a Mandelbrot [set] in the fields?" One year to the day after the publication of that question, a mandelbrot set appeared in a field near Cambridge University -where Benoit Mandelbrot had taught.
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
-
Well, I don't know. Many scientific theories cannot be directly falsified (evolution and global warming leap to mind) but are widely regarded as the best extant explanations for the data. (...)
Finding fossils that show that earth's fauna has never changed would disprove evolution. Global warming will be shown to be true of false in time, by simply monitoring temperatures. But I agree that disprovability is not the only criterion.I'm not the only one to say there needs to be a way to disprove a theory:
- There is a very important characteristic of a scientific theory or hypothesis which differentiates it from, for example, an act of faith: a theory must be ``falsifiable''.
Back to your post.-
Direct falsification is only one particular method of testing theories. Not that this has much to do with UFOs, etc.
A theory that says "there are aliens on Mars, they look like green dogs and visit Earth every Friday" can be disproved by taking pictures of Mars. A theory that says "aliens cannot be detected but they exist" is unscientific because it cannot be proven wrong.And proving something wrong is exactly what we're talking about. It can apply to dowsing of pictures of faeries, for example.
I can't help myself:
Disney's three-step plan:
1) Make crop circles.
2) ???
3) Profit!
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
See the article about the signs on the last issue.
You say things that most Slashdotters don't want to hear. I see that you were modded down by somebody (-1 Too_Insightful).
People who get too successful in convincing the world of phenomenon outside the accepted realm of science are ridiculed, tormented, punished and murdered. Or nailed to crosses.
I agree. Science, as usually practiced today, is prejudicial. That is, it pre-judges what is real and what is not real. From the outset - before any hypotheses or experiments are even conceived - most scientists make a philosophical judgment about the bounds of reality - that these bounds are subject to the creeds of materialism and naturalism. Every experiment is designed and every observation is interpreted through the lenses of these narrow-minded philosophies. Consequently, scientific conclusions are confined to a minimal part of reality. Any possible conclusions that fall outside of the naturalistic bounds are summarily discarded without any thoughtful consideration. I call this practice "Occam's Carpet Bombing."
Note: I do not attribute crop circles to supernatural, paranormal, or extra-terrestrial causes. I am open-minded about this, but I tend to think that humans are the most likely cause.
You find the 'biochemist thing' troubling, but not so much as to actually make you think in new ways? Hm. So in that case, no, I can't point out any evidence which will convince you.
In other words, "damn, I don't have any other examples, so I'll just pretend that I do but won't tell."
This does not mean that there isn't plenty of it out there; there is. Many of the greats, and many less famous scientists have been bullied, persuaded, mind-controled and, yes, in the harshest of circumstances, even killed. Go get over your mental blocks, and then go do some research.
Mind-controlled? How exactly does that work?
No. Only in the controlled experiment settings you choose to look at. --Which again cuts directly to my point that the Evidence skeptics cry for is, for all intents and purposes, unattainable. There have been a wide number of studies which have given positive results of various phenomena. But a good study doesn't mean good marketing.
No. In all experiments. None of the "promising" ones are ever successfully duplicated. This stuff isn't hard to test; if it exists it should show up easily, if it doesn't then it won't.
If someone claims they can bend spoons with their mind, let them try. If someone can read minds, then let's see them do it. There aren't millions of variables here, the majority of paranormal claims are easy to test. They never work. NEVER. It doesn't matter how many ad hominem attacks you launch against me, James Randi, or skeptics in general, it still won't make ESP exist.
but that people writing books I might want to read are penalized for the same thing?
Now you're REALLY making things up out of whole cloth. How are they penalized? This isn't a rhetorical question, please tell me how all the John Edwards, Erich von Danikens, and Uri Gellers are PENALIZED. Go ahead.
No. Only in the controlled experiment settings you choose to look at.
Mo. In all the properly controlled experiments. Randi is a magician. He knows how to fool people. He sets up the test so that the subject cannot cheat. Don't you find it a little bit suspicious that no one can ever make their 'powers' work under those circumstances?
As chance would have it, I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities
Uh huh.
have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them, that they instinctively cringe away from such mean-spirited (and most likely fixed) public challenges like Randi's; they would probably shrivel up and die if forced to stand on a stage facing a million eyes determined to see only what they want to see,
You don't have to stand on a stage. You don't have to face a million eyes. All they have to do is face Randi, one-on-one, in controlled circumstances, and bend one single spoon with their mind. Or divine the contents of the sealed envelope. Or predict the order of the cards. Or...
"If Disney makes crop circles in its own country"
Contrary to /. opinion, Disney doesn't own any country yet.
Disney is an evil multinational corporation, not restricted by borders.
m. night shamalan movies always have a twist that explains the whole movie. keep reading to find out the twist in Signs in the sixth sense, the twist was that the main character was actually a ghost in unbreakable, the twist was that the main characters were actually comic-book type superheroes in signs, the twist is that the crop circles are caused by the wife who was murdered by a family friend, and she is trying to communicate that back to her husband/son.
in what I'd guess is a piece of miraculous timing, there's a documentary of crop circles coming around the same time. Directed by Emmy-award winning William Gazecki.
http://www.cropcirclesthemovie.com/
(Disclaimer: I'm not associated with the movie and havent seen it, but I've worked on the website.)
- j
They never work. NEVER. It doesn't matter how many ad hominem attacks you launch against me, James Randi, or skeptics in general, it still won't make ESP exist.
Go to your local library, and check out a book titled "Parapsychology: The last 60 years" by the well-respected psychologist Joseph B. Rhine. Read that book from cover to cover, and THEN come on here and flap your trap about how these things never show up in experiments.
If you don't want to read the experimental results, then don't claim to know what you're talking about.
click here
Follow the link to the side bar it's pretty funny.
I have a bridge to sell in Brooklyn. The crop circles are message from the alien saying you should buy it.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
some would take a lot of people and time,and some incredible organization.
k 01 df.html
l hi ll/windmillhill2002a.html
http://home.clara.net/lucypringle/photos/2001/u
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2002/windmil
---
If that's true -- and it certainly can't be proven otherwise -- then they're welcome to their supernatural powers. But if they refuse to let their powers be tested under controlled conditions, and allow scientists to do repeated experiments, with everything that goes with it, they shouldn't be surprised when most people don't believe them.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Science, as usually practiced today, is prejudicial. That is, it pre-judges what is real and what is not real.
That's because that's what thinking creatures do. There is no proof that writing this message wouldn't cause the destruction of the Earth. But by my judgement of what is real, this message will have minimal impact of the world. We go around assuming that floors and the ground won't collapse beneath us; it's not always a correct assumption, but someone who didn't believe that would quickly terrify themselves to death.
If scientists didn't prejudge what was real, they would constantly be doing to experiments to see if 2+2=7 or if things fly upwards when dropped. However, scientists like to do useful research, and people prefer to pay them for useful research. So they study stuff that they believe has a decent possibility of being true.
these bounds are subject to the creeds of materialism and naturalism.
By the nature of science, that's about all you can study using it. Supernatural things don't obey rules that allow them to be studied. They won't appear in a labortory, they frequently won't appear on film, and they can be very good at hiding or destroying evidence about themselves. How exactly are you supposed to study them?
There is no fundamental scientific problem with psionic powers. For some reason, however, while we can pull some guy who can bend a crowbar in half with his hands into a lab and study him, people who can bend a spoon in half with his mind tend to not be able to do that when watched too closely.
Well, unfortunately I wasn't keeping records and notes of all my reading when I was looking at examples of this kind of activity. A quick search, however, through my files brought up these names: George Bull, Morris K. Jessup, Karen Silkwood, Frank Edwards, Phil Schneider, Stefan Marinov. (All murdered in fairly clear ways, some of whom, I believe, in clear attempts to misdirect; Morris K. Jessup in particular; that is, kill a guy who is spouting crap in a very obvious assassination, and then all the conspiracy people will spend all their time looking so carefully at the dead guy's notes that they miss what's really going on. But that's just my thinking.)
Then there are the big ones, like Nicoli Tesla, Albert Einstein and Von Neumann, all of whom were manipulated to some degree, in both very obvious ways, and in some very un-obvious ways. I'm afraid you'll have to look up the information regarding these items yourself; I'm not about to go re-tracing my steps with hyperlinks and footnotes for your benefit, particularly when I'm not convinced that you really want to see any of this stuff in the first place. All I can say is that the reading is very interesting if you are ready to dig and to consider, but you must be willing to work at it.
Mind-controlled? How exactly does that work?
Wow! Where to start. . . This stuff is REALLY fascinating, so if you only look up some of the items I'm providing here, look up these three:
Greenbaum Lecture. --That's the psyche side.
Jose M. R. Delgado --The famous 'stop the charging bull with a button push' guy. He was into the direct control of the brain through electrical impulses delivered, in his early experiments, through implanted wires, and later on, with EM.
Joseph Goebbles --The man who pioneered population control through mass media.
If someone claims they can bend spoons with their mind, let them try. If someone can read minds, then let's see them do it. There aren't millions of variables here, the majority of paranormal claims are easy to test. They never work. NEVER. It doesn't matter how many ad hominem attacks you launch against me, James Randi, or skeptics in general, it still won't make ESP exist.
What can I say? You say NEVER with such utter conviction, there really isn't much point in trying to offer you new info for consideration. There is plenty, (though clearly, you haven't seen any of it; and unless you specifically look beyond CNN and the popular media feeds, you won't), however I am not going to bother listing them for you. And no, it's not that, "damn, I don't have any other examples, so I'll just pretend that I do but won't tell," it's that I don't feel like working in order to provide you with links and names etc. just for you to dismiss out of hand. Your level of awareness is YOUR problem and nobody else's.
If I'm reading you incorrectly, then I apologize, but must still recommend you go look for the material yourself. Start with Healing Touch; there were some good double blind studies done in the late eighties. Also, Acupuncture is another system with a fairly low threat factor for normal people stuck in orthodox thinking; Acupuncture clearly works, (even on animals during surgery, which removes the question of any placebo effect), but orthodox medicine doesn't want to admit it because it raises some foundation breaking possibilities. --It's nothing scary; it's all well within the realm of physical science, it just undermines certain 'rules' of medicine which would upset many were they broken. Anyway, that information is all out there as well, for those willing to search.
Now you're REALLY making things up out of whole cloth. How are they penalized? This isn't a rhetorical question, please tell me how all the John Edwards, Erich von Danikens, and Uri Gellers are PENALIZED. Go ahead.
Are you intentionally mis-understanding the semantics here?
First off, I am not familiar with any of the three authors (?) you listed. I assume you believe they are con-artists of some color or other, and because you bring them up with such confidence, then I suspect they probably really are. I wouldn't know until I read their material, however.
In any case, when I said penalized, I meant that the James Randi's of the world look at the fact that New Age books are sold rather than given away for free, as proof positive that New Age books are filled ONLY with lies and that their authors are ALL in it just for the money. --A damning statement and a 'penalty'. And that's what I meant. Perhaps 'penalize' was the wrong word to use in this case, but that's hardly the point. I hope we're done with that! I hate it when this kind of conversation devolves on one side into the mere clashing of word semantics; it's usually at that point when denial is in full swing and nothing is being heard. Rather like covering one's ears and singing, "La, La, La, I can't here you!"
But I don't think we're at that point, so I'll just let it be for now.
I hope that gives you something interesting to chew on. Enjoy! (If you will. It's up to you. Learning is fun!)
-Fantastic Lad
There probably are lots of people doing them, but they don't really seem that hard. There is a documentary on (I think) the Discovery Channel that has aired a few times over the years where they actually go out with some folks one night and do time-lapse photography as they make a highly complicated crop circle. (They drew the original design using some basic geometric templates, compasses, and things like that, iirc.)
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
OK, so the video surveillance didn't see people -- what the hell did it see then? Alien spaceships? The circles just magically appeared *without* any cause?
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
You're worried about 2012! My calendar ends on July 31st! We only have 10 days!! EVERYBODY PANIC!!!
Oh, wait...sorry, I just turned the page. There's August, September...December, and MY CALENDAR RUNS OUT! Oh my god: only 163 days until the end! EVERYBODY PANIC!!!
orthodox medicine doesn't want to admit it because it raises some foundation breaking possibilities.
And you seem to think that's a bad thing. Once you think you know what's going on, you don't switch foundations on anything less than very strong and compelling evidence.
Frankly, you'll get farther predicting the movement of the planets believing the planets and sun move around the earth in circles, each riding their own little cirles upon cirles, then you'll get believing the planets and Earth move around the sun in simple cirles. And the paths for the first couldn't have been predicted except by many years of devotion to that theory.
the James Randi's of the world look at the fact that New Age books are sold rather than given away for free, as proof positive that New Age books are filled ONLY with lies and that their authors are ALL in it just for the money
The quotation you gave certainly doesn't prove that - he's specifically complaining about scam-artists in that quote. Having read Randi's weekly column, he clearly understands that many authors believe what they are writing.
First off, I am not familiar with any of the three authors [John Edwards, Erich von Daniken, and Uri Geller] (?) you listed.
Really? I know you haven't read Randi's weekly columns, since he goes after John Edwards almost every week. (He channels the dead for people on the Sci-Fi channel; his very successful shows has produced much backlash.) He also mentions Uri Geller frequently. (Uri Geller is, among other things, a spoon-bender and has been around for many decades. He's sued Randi, among others, for slander a couple times, never successful in court, but Randi is now somewhat circumspec about how he refers to Geller.) (Erich von Daniken wrote the very successful Chariot of the Gods and other books.) How you've never heard of them is beyond me; they are arguably the three most succesful (money and fame) non-religious paranormal people of this century.
how did they tell?
"well, geoff, what we've got here is two small circles intersecting one larger one..."
"gee this looks awful familiar.."
0 _ 0
(_)
"So there he is, risen from the dead. Like that fella, E. T." - Father Ted Crilly
Crop circles have been appearing in England since the mid eighties. In fact they are old news here now - nobody talks about them anymore.
At their peak in the early nineties there were people including some reputable scientists who actually believed that they weren't made by human beings. To be fair the reputable scientists all fell into the "bizarre meteorological phenomenon" as opposed to the "beings from outer space" camp.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
I happen to know several people who have 'supernatural' abilities but who [...] have been so sufficiently tormented and stunted for being different while growing up by ignorant and/or cruel people around them [...]
And let me guess, they're all right now in the process of swearing an oath to protect a world that fear and hate them? And I thought that was just a comic. Silly silly me.
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok
Crop circles keep getting bigger and better because there's competition these days. There are well-motivated students out there who are capable of designing and creating amazing things in fields of wheat.
[begin pimping]
By the way, I run a skeptic-oriented search engine called Skeptic Planet that indexes 40 of the topic skeptic sites. That makes it easy to find skeptical examinations of this type of thing. (Entering "crop circles" came up with 427 matches, every one with a skeptical viewpoint.)
I also run a Slash-based news site called Skeptic News, which is another good source.
[end pimping]
Don't think PopSci, or SciAm are above being paid to run a story that's relevant to crop circles in a timely fashion 'to coincide with the release of...' - because they are not above it. These magazines are *frequently* paid to take 'guest editorials' on topical subjects ...
...
The movie industry dedicates entire *departments* to getting media and press to publish stories relating to current topical movies. You don't have to look far to see the effects of this - CNN are *always* running 'filler stories' that are somehow topical with the latest blockbusters
Look at it this way. You read about crop circles in this months SciAm, then you see the "Signs" posters at the busstop, and you figure "hey, okay, I'll go see it - I'm interested in crop circles lately".
That whole transaction was planned, months ago.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Wow! You've got good eyesight! The shuttles launch from Florida.
Right. Do you also believe in UFOs, astral projection, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trans-mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.
I can't possibly be the only one who caught the reference....
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Crop cylinders
echo 33676832766569823265328479713269.8639857989Pq | dc
buuuut.....the article was critical of the whole crop circle/ created by aliens phenomenon. It certainly wasn't an endorsment of that waste of film Signs. It makes me NOT want to see it.
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
Ok a hobby of mine was checking out conspericy theroies.
(They get old after a while. Same stuff and once your familure with the matereal you don't even need to lift a finger to find the flaws)
Crop circles are one of the few compelling storys.
Firstly the two hoaxters probably got the idea from storys hence it's quite possable there were cicrlces before this.
Aliens: Sorry just makes no sence. The original idea of alien landings dosn't fit the crop circles be they fake or "real"
As far as I know they all fit the patern of "fake" the real crop circles are created by altering the plants so say the pro-Circle side.
The original idea is that UFOs lanneded there and created the circles on landing. That dies with the fact that only the FAKE are crushed plants.
Alien signs. Ok I see a number of problems with this. First it's dam complex. Second how freaking hard would it be to transmit a radio signal?
It took hoaxters to get our attention in the first place. So if there are real circles they aren't signs.
So then what? Disease?
My own theroy is some of the hoaxters don't want to damage the crops so they created crop circles by come cemical means. Spray plants and they bend over a piriod of time. Easy simple. Instant hoax and it takes less time.
Or...
They are all crushed plants and the pro side is lying... and it wouldn't be the first time.
I don't actually exist.
Bah! Look at Charles T. Tart, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at UC Davis. A man who has had a long, and successful career as a psychology professor - a staunch believer in "Transpersonal Psychology" -
(here's his web page: http://www.paradigm-sys.com/cttart/
)
He's had his share of critics mind you, but nobody sabotaged his career or mind controlled him into silence or assassinated him. You'd think that if there were underhanded efforts to discredit the whole "supernatural phenomenon" deal, that he would have been a prime target.
I'm a proponent of the supernatural (somewhat) myself, but I sure as hell don't believe in some vast conspiracy to silence those who study these phenomena seriously. That's just plain bullshit. Any field like this, of course, is going to attract people who are flakes. Those flakes get discredited, and generally bad things happen to them. And there are also perfectly good scientists who DO make some observations which are unexplainable. Nothing is happening to those people.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I run a skeptic-oriented search engine called Skeptic Planet
[...]
I also run a Slash-based news site called Skeptic News...
Cool. Haven't played with them, yet, but they're bookmarked now =) Definitely relevant to the topic under discussion.
Get off my launchpad!
The question you should ask is why belief must these days be predicated upon scientists running tests in far away labs, declaring their results positive or negative, and people believing blindly whatever they say.
-When any number of phenomenon can be experienced first hand by any interested person who is willing to think outside the imposed parameters.
This is what scares those in power; that people will decide to take up this natural power and grow in awareness. I am not saying that science and technology are bad, but I AM saying that the dark underpinnings which have also been sold with science and technology are such that people are very easily told what to believe. -And what they are told to believe is that they should not try to raise their awareness.
A raised awareness might lead to people becoming free. The power elite would not like that! No sir. And this is the sole reason I'm blowing bandwidth on this subject.
-Fantastic Lad
The interesting thing is that nobody is stopping you from looking over the shoulder of the martial artist who can put his hand through two inches of plate steel.
But you have to find the guy first, earn his respect and abandon your current life. Because the kinds of powers we're talking about there require a complete altering of yourself and mind. Of course, this sounds ridiculous to you now in the place and thinking where you currently reside. But that's just the point, you see?
Easier is that you try to affect your dreaming state, or attempt to see auras, or percieve things beyond what you normally do. Nobody is stopping you from doing this except you. With first hand experience, you don't need to worry about what popular science has to say on the matter. And then you will understand why those on the outside of the cage behave the way they do towards those on the inside, who snarl and hiss and deny not just that the door is standing open, but that there is a door in the cage at all.
One must NEVER drag another out; it would harm them. It would interrupt their learning cycle before they are, 'ripe'. The captive must choose.
But it's okay to make invitations. . .
-Fantastic Lad
Disney allegedly funded the creation of a breed of Genetically-Modified maize, which is pre-programmed to grow in formation, resulting in crop-circles while-u-wait.
Probably best not to eat any of it.