Wireless Clouds for Good and Ill

dr_delete sent in a story about Athens, Georgia joining the ranks of municipalities creating free public wireless networks. In a counterpoint to that, we have the Pentagon cracking down on wireless devices, trying to control information leakage. And Newsforge has a story about starting your own wireless ISP. Nifty stuff.

Comments

What /. needs...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that the trolls are gone, we need to make the '2 minute' rule a '1 minute' rule, and kill the damn 20 second rule!


AND LOTS MORE PORN!!

Shouldn't be surprised

[Zaknafein500]

From the city that spawned the greatest band ever.

Re:Shouldn't be surprised

[Anonymous Coward]

More like the most overrated band ever.

Re:Shouldn't be surprised

[Snibor Eoj]

Yes, because good music and free wireless connectivity go hand in hand, right?

??!?!?!

Wireless Clouds, eh?

[LordYUK]

hmm, I havent ever seen a cloud tethered to anything, so I reckon we've had wireless clouds for a while now.

all the girls say

[Trolling Stones]

hey baby hey baby hey
boys say boys say
g to the oatse
c to the izzex
fo shizzle my nizzle garbage is a better band than no doubt, in my opinion

Re:all the girls say

[Guns n' Roses Troll]

A couple of weeks ago I heard the song 'Hella Good' by No Doubt. For the first time in ages I was very interested in a new song on the radio. When the station didn't announce what the song was, I slammed my head into the window in frustration.

I surfed over to the radio station's website and looked for their playlist. When I saw "Hella Good - No Doubt" I immediately knew that was her. 20 minutes of downloading from a P2P app and I had the wonderful tune on my HD.

If the rest of their songs sound like this, I'll probably buy the album.

First Post!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a lamer!

In the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget Consume.

Good and 3?

[TonyZahn]

Y'know, ILL doesn't really work well in that font...

Just saying...

In the UK ..

[SpatchMonkey]

.. there is an active effort underway to build a national wireless network. It's over at consume.net. Unfortunately the uptake seems rather slow with too many people just interested and not active.

Re:In the UK ..

[SpatchMonkey]

I messed up the link. Should have been http://consume.net/

Re:In the UK ..

[matt_wilts]

I must say I've not been impressed with the Consume effort - or, rather, with their web-presence. http://www.consume.net looks messy, and whilst the use of Wiki is a good idea for discussion, the people over at Melbourne Wireless look a LOT more professional.

It doesn't make me want to connect my WLAN to what they're doing, at least at the moment. I'm keeping an eye on things.

Matt

Warchalking

[Andy Smith]

The BBC had a good story last week about warchalking which is a grass-roots effort to track down wireless networks so anyone can use them. Unfortunately the warchalking web site is no longer being updated because the owner, Matt Jones, wants to sell the domain and hand the project over to someone else.

Re:Warchalking

[Andy Smith]

Allow me to correct myself. The warchalking web site is still being maintained, once you click through to the second page.

Re:Warchalking

[Kyeo]

Allow myself to correct... myself.

I Miss ATHENS!

[AndyMcL]

I went to UGA and lived in Athens afterwards. I moved up to New England because of a high paying high tech job, but wish that I would have stayed down there. ATHENS IS AWESOME! It is the coolest town that I have ever livened in.

Now, if they can only get some good paying high tech companies there it would be Nirvana.

Andy

Re:I Miss ATHENS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just move to Athens and work in Atlanta suburbia. I worked in Duluth and lived in Athens. 50 minutes one way.

linux AIM exploit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux AIM exploit. Don't expect to see this on /. anytime soon, though.

Re:linux AIM exploit?

[mr_z_beeblebrox]

http://www.fixwindows.com

Re:linux AIM exploit?

[Anonymous Coward]

PLEASE tell me they don't actually type like that all the time...

And another not-quite-so-great band...

[0xdeadbeef]

If you see a faded sign at the side of the road that says 1.5 Mbits at the...

Full House: The Grocery Store [LOTR Troll]

[Anonymous Coward]

Danny Tanner woke up abruptly with a massive hangover, vomited into his bedside sick-bucket and wiped his mouth with the bedsheets. "FUCKING SHIT," he exclaimed after pressing his lips to an empty plastic 1.75L bottle of Jenkins 90 Proof Vodka, "Out again already, goddamnit!", chucking the empty plastic jug to the floor. Danny Tanner staggered his way down the hall banging on his children's doors as he passed, yelling "Get your asses out of bed! We need to take a little trip to the store for daddy because none of you little bastards is old enough to buy alcohol! I expect that you'll all have your collars on by the time I'm done taking a shit! Make sure you fasten Michelle's tighter this time!" The Live Studio Audience whoops in approval. Danny slams the bathroom door shut. Shortly afterwards, distinguishable gas farts and watery diarrhea noises are heard from the surrounding rooms, accompanied by grunts, moans and further vomiting.

D.J. was aware of the consequences of not using Danny's allotted time window, so promptly put on her dog collar with the spikes pointing toward the neck, as this is the only way Danny would accept them to be worn (with fear of beating mind you.) It was always the opinion of D.J. that mild stabbing pains around the neck were preferable to a savage beating in addition to the stabbing pains later. Being the eldest forced her into the position of being "responsible" for the younger siblings and thusly would endure the majority of all beatings. Steph knew this and purposefully made D.J. chase her around the living room yelling "You can't catch me! You can't catch me!" Upon the third lap, D.J. heard a loud THUD. Michelle, previously perched on the back of the sofa, had fallen face first onto the floor. Although simply shocked by the fall, the small mongoloid only began crying as she noticed the warm blood on her finger after some nosepicking. Live Studio Audience sniggers. Steph finally decided to stop being a little shit and submitted. D.J. put on Steph and Michelle's collars and proceeded to attach the leashes.

After gaining some composure, Danny burst out of the bathroom and headed for Joey's bedroom. Before knocking on the door, he noticed grunting coming out of the room. "Don't try to insert an un-lubed summer sausage of that size into me, Joey! It'll rip!" Jesse's toned-down voice could be heard through Joey's door. Danny yelled "Uhm, I'm going out to get some booze, you guys want any?" Footsteps shuffled and magazine pages were thumbed through for several seconds before Joey replied, "No, we're cool. Jesse's just....helping me...clean ... up. See you later." Danny made his way back downstairs while listening to more shuffling and manly giggling.

"Well well," he condescendingly remarked "so you finally learned." Danny took the three leashes and lightly yanked them along towards The Van. "Get yer asses in." Danny opened the The Van's rear door, exposing the three lettuce crates of which he had created makeshift child seats, tethered with nylon rope. "Seatbelts please. Thank you!" The girls hadn't yet fastened their "safety belts," but would need to, with Danny's erratic driving skills.

Danny Tanner peeled out of the driveway, nearly hitting D.J.'s young friend Kimberly Gibbler. The Live Studio Audience cheers with laughter as Kimmy is caught off guard and crashes her banana-seat bicycle into the Tanner mailbox. Laugh Track plays as Danny observes the incident through his rear-view mirror and remarks, "I'll deal with that shit when we get home." Danny darted down the interstate, passing cars in both the fast and slow lanes, taking the second exit. Danny disregards the offramp stop sign and tears-ass into the Safeway parking lot's primo handicapped parking space. Danny hops out of The Van, opens the rear doors, take his daughters' leashes and marches them into the supermarket's seafood section. Danny lifts Michelle into a freezer "playpen" bin and instructs his two older daughters to "Keep an eye on this one, or else." Danny left the store in a rush, exiting to the right toward Jake's Liquor Store.

Steph opens a plastic container of imitation crab meat and dumps the liquid-solid mixture onto her younger sister's head. Michelle shivers as she grips the frost-laden freezer bin's outer edges, trying to hoist herself up a bit to see what was happening in the store.

A young boy of Steph's age had escaped his mother's kiddie harness and peeked over the opposite side of the bin, where Michelle and her sisters couldn't see him. Knowing that the young child was mentally crippled, he, like the Live Studio Audience found it humorous that tugging on the toddler's jumpsuit pajamas caused her to fall over. Michelle restored herself to the former standing position on side of the freezer, but was tugged down a second time with greater force and began crying. The young boy ran away chuckling. Steph heard this and yelled "Hey I know you! You're Bobby Sherman! Wait up!" Steph darted off as onlookers watched the four-child spectacle happen around the freezer bin. D.J. yelled "Hey! Get back here!" and chased after the middle child, Live Studio Audience laughing. The shoppers quickly lost interest and didn't notice that Michelle had managed to climb out of the freezer bin. Michelle squandered her newly-gained freedom for several minutes picking up dust-bunnies from under the massive refrigerator with her cold numb hands and tasting them.

Danny soon returned from the liquor store, three shopping bags in hand. "Oh what the FUCK!" he roared as he saw the Michelle alone, sitting beside the receptacle. He heaved his daughter back into the frosty cell and went on a hunting trip for his other children. Not half a minute had elapsed before he heard the pitter-patter of two sets of feet. He spotted D.J. chasing her sister down the T.V. dinner aisle and quickly caught up, kicking D.J. square in the back as she grasped Steph's leash. Both girls fell to the floor hard as D.J. impacted with Steph. "You'll suffer the penalties when we get home, but you need to retrieve your sister RIGHT FUCKING NOW and get in The Van before I beat you right here!" The two girls make their way back to the freezer and struggle to get the little tard out and are finally hauled off by their leashes toward The Van.

After crumbling and chucking the handicapped parking ticket that was under his windshield wiper, Danny drove home at a slower speed, obeying all traffic laws for the most part. He was very angry and was deciding on the punishment for his two oldest daughters. The show's scene-switching saxophone music plays as it fades into the Tanner residence backyard, where Danny is supporting the lid of a metal box. "Your punishment, eighteen hours in the hot box! Your whore of a mother would be ashamed if she were still alive." he grinned maniacally as he shoved the girls into the homemade black spray-painted hotbox in the noon sun.

Danny, being a reasonable father, went inside with Michelle on his left shoulder. He offloaded his youngest into her crib, and returned with a bottle containing an equal measure combination of Gordon's Gin and whole milk. The Live Studio Audience "Awwwws" as the child dozes off from the alcohol she consumes, and the scene fades into credits.

Warcraft Clouds for Good and 3

[Xaroth]

Which is how I orignally read that. Hooray for proofreading how headlines will appear!

For Good and 3?

[RumGunner]

Is that the number of secure wireless networks?

Re:For Good and 3?

[moroderzone]

Remember the homograph attack? http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~gabr/papers/homograp h_full.pdf

Junis on BBC!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Breaking news on BBC!

The brother of the woman in southern Pakistan allegedly gang-raped on the orders of a tribal council has told the court he too was raped on the same day.

The boy, who is 12 years old, told an anti-terrorism court in the southern Punjab city of Dera Ghazi Khan that he was sodomised by a group of men in June including an American journalist Jon Katz. Sources close to the anti-terrorism court revealed on the condition of anonymity that Mr. Katz had had a torrid love affair with the young boy for two years and that the affair had recently ended at boy's request.

Fidonet.

[f00Dave]

Anyone remember when a small group of people, disaffected with CompuSpend and other BBS corps got together and formed their own distributed network, based on private citizen's telco services? Wondering if the same thing will happen with medium-to-wide area networks? I mean, now that the 802.whateveritwas hack-thing is out there (you know, the one that lets you do wireless over medium-area distances), how long before people shuck off the "shackles" of their ISP and start forming small Winternet groups?

(Oh god, I might have just coined something. Quick! Alert Wired! =] )

The logistics of gluing small (urban?) 'clouds' together comes down to boundary-routing. Now, if only there was an 802.somethingelse hack that let these 'clouds' contact each other over inter-city distances, the Winternet wouldn't depend on Spring or Bellnexxia or whoever is backboning, today.

Cross your fingers. ;-)

Re:Fidonet.

[ejdmoo]

"Now, if only there was an 802.somethingelse hack that let these 'clouds' contact each other over inter-city distances"

That is partially possible. I recently bought two Intel wireless access points where one can act as a repeater. I have a wired network in my house, but it only is at the extent of my office. I wanted to get to the back yard, so I put one AP (access point) in my office, that covers the front of the house. Then, all I did (after *extensive* configuration/headaches) is plug the other AP in to power in the kitchen and put it on top of the cabinets, and voiala! If I'm on the porch, I talk to AP2 who talks to AP1 who talks to my router. :) Looking here you can see the purdy pictures that show you what I'm talking about. The one setback: you cannot do more than 4 hops (I'm doing 1 hop...2 APs), but you could theoretically have one central AP, then multiple APs that only have one hop back to it, but go in different directions.

Re:Fidonet.

[elmegil]

Too bad you're too late: winternet.com. Established in 1994....not using "wireless" but even so....you lose the trademark race.

Re:Fidonet.

[f00Dave]

Well, sure, that's sort of the essence of an urban-area WiFi 'cloud' (using that 802.whatever hack for large hops). What I'd like to see, though, is something that let *some* people hop REALLY huge distances, broadband. That would let 'clouds' link up to form the Winternet. No carrier fees for bandwidth (since I said 'broadband'), but someone would have to pay for the hardware, uptime, configuration, etc. The nice thing about FidoNet was (is?) that it was distributed, and the 'costs' were borne by all the users....

So, like another poster said: what if every municipality used tax money to maintain the inter-cloud links? Well ... that's a mess I'm not going to get into, today. ;-D

Re:Fidonet.

[funky womble]

What I'd like to see, though, is something that let *some* people hop REALLY huge distances, broadband. That would let 'clouds' link up

Kind-of like gif, l2tp, cipe, pptp, [...]

No carrier fees for bandwidth (since I said 'broadband')

There are always carrier fees for bandwidth unless you're building your own backbone. If you're not paying for the bandwidth you're using directly yourself, it's being subsidised by someone else (like lighter users of the same ISP).

Re:Fidonet.

[f00Dave]

There are always carrier fees for bandwidth unless you're building your own backbone. If you're not paying for the bandwidth you're using directly yourself, it's being subsidised by someone else (like lighter users of the same ISP).

Well, to quote myself: "What I'd like to see, though, is something that let *some* people hop REALLY huge distances, broadband." So yes, build our ownn backbone. Somewhere in the back of my head was the idea that all those HAM ops could find a magic broadband bullet that would let them gateway between 'clouds'. Assuming they paid their own power and hardware bills, it would be free ... for everyone else.

Of course, with great diversity would come great Free Market Pressure and the whole paying-for-bandwidth thing would just vanish. Instead, we'd be paying a nebulous group of amature and professional types for their time and costs.

Hell, it worked for FidoNet, which was my original point....

Now, if there was some way to have EVERYONE be a part of some global broadband network, then everyone would pay their OWN way in hardware and power costs (this 'cloud' business extended out from urban zones to continental or planetary zones). That would be the ultimate, but physics just won't give in that easily. Yet. Maybe. ;-)

Re:Fidonet.

[DaChesserCat]

Quick question.

Do these AP's have to have different IP addresses? If not, and you can have four wireless hops between IP addresses, you could, realistically, get some pretty decent physical distance between points were IP addresses are needed. At that rate, just about any routing protocol should be sufficient.

Re:Fidonet.

[silentbozo]

Well, you could set up local clouds/nodes, and node maintainers would be responsible for handing out IP space within their node, as well as linking nodes together, probably via a tunneled link through their personal broadband connection.

Note, that all you're doing is linking nodes via broadband (rather than via modem through the phone networks) - you don't have to link up to the greater internet, and in fact, for liability purposes, you probably wouldn't (except maybe for receiving and getting e-mail for registered users within your node.) You could also cache outside content by demand, so local users could browse static information.

By abstracting node linkage, you could have nodes linking to each other via broadband, via long-range repeaters, a really long cat5 wire, ethernet over barbed wire, or even modems (either landline or Ricochet wireless.) The nice thing about the topology is you can probably borrow the entire network structure from the original Fidonet, replacing the PPP linkups with the link-agnostic node linkage protocol, and slap some limited tcp/ip services on top of it.

So, if you don't have a direct link to the greater internet, what good is a node? Well, you can put together a pretty nifty distributed file library, exchange news and mail without having to hop outside of the local network, members within a given wireless cloud can game against each other, and if there's sufficient bandwidth, game against other nodes, essentially a hybrid between a fidonet node and a distributed virtual LAN.

The coolest thing about this would be the creation of a shadow infrastructure that could route around damage, such as a major backbone collapsing, or fees and censorship. Once the citizen-maintained infrastructure was in place, even if the internet was shut down (either because of war, cyberattack, or because commercial interests have destroyed it), we'd still have pieces that could easily link up and provide service to members of the citizen-net.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone already has a project like this... SO POST LINKS if ya know of any!

Re:Fidonet.

[silentbozo]

So far I've come up with:

consume.net

and

and a litany of others in Australia.

I have yet to find equivalent groups in US that have actually deployed (most look like bozos trying to make a quick buck off of delivering wireless internet access, or else are community groups putting a lot of info up, but no infrastructure I can peer to immediately :( )

Re:Fidonet.

[silentbozo]

Even if APs require different IP addresses, you can still bridge them together, and have each one route to a local AP which would then serve that specific area of the cloud, probably using NAT, unless you wanted static servers.

Problem is, how do you coordinate handing out private IP space to a whole bunch of different repeaters (and static servers)? If the idea really takes off, you will probably need a central registry to keep sections of the network from stomping on each other as new APs and their associated users come online.

Slashdot CENSORSHIP!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://211.141.69.11:6211/znore1/
version 1.2.1, (last updated 20th July 2002)

Note to moderators : Do not moderate this post down, if you do then you support the editors stance on censorship and you support the end of free speech and support evil organisations like Microsoft, RIAA, MPAA and laws like the CBTBA and DMCA. Moderating this post will only waste mod points, and will not work!

Sign this petition, let your voice be heard!

Slashdot is using censorship! It is trying to eridicate free and open discussion like we know slashdot to be, it has the following RESTRICTIONS in place to Censor you

They claim they don't, but they do, wonder why their are so many trolls, crapflooders and lamers on slashdot, because they are fighting for their rights! Slashdot is trying to silence the trolls. Remove the filters, the trolls get bored, and slashdot will be troll free!

• Lameness filters (It blocks a lot of legitmate posts)
• Unnessary posting delays. Hasnt taco learned to touch type? A lot of posts are typed in less than 20 seconds and it is a ANNOYING DELAY! 2 minute ban? Come on, so some are faster then others, big deal, some people have more to say than others
• Broken moderation system, The whole point is to sort the gems from the crap, yet a lot of posts designed to make a LIVELY DISCUSSION are MODERATED as flamebait! Come on, not everyone likes X, but just because some one bashes it dosent mean its Flamebait. Flame bait is more useful for DIRECT INSULTS and not legitmate discussions.

The "troll" moderation reason is fragmented and broken, why? Because they are trying to use an obsolete usenet term on a realtime discussion, "trolls" can cover a huge blanket of ideas.

• Crapfloods, a meaningless flood of random letters or text, which the lameness filter does a crappy job at trying to stop, besides trolls have written tools using the opensource slashcode to generate crapfloods which bypass the filter
• Links to offensive websites, the most common one is known a http://www.goatse.cx, a awful site which shows a bleeding anus being stretched on the front page. Trolls sneak these links in by posting messages that look legitimate, but infact are sneaky redirects to the site. Common examples include rd.yahoo.com, www.linux-kernel.tk, goatsex.cjb.net, and googles "Im feeling lucky".
• Trying to break slashdot, this is actually a good thing, as it helps test slashdot for bugs. Famous examples include the goatse.cx javascript pop-up, the pagewidening post and the browser crashing post!

Subnet banning, this bans a user unless they email jamie macarthy with their mp5ed ipids. This is unfair, and banning a subnet BLOCKS A WHOLE ISP SOMETIMES, and not that individual user! This can cause chaos! But real trolls use annoymous proxys to get around this so THIS JUST BANS LEGITMATE USERS! Also, they are trying to censor some anoymous proxies, mainly from countrys like africa, so this yet more DISCRIMINATION!

Pink page of Death, This censors people who use legitmate proxys or firewalls.

The Bitchslap! An unethical punishment which is applied to moderators who fight censorship against this site! In addition the Editors use their un-limited mod points to create a communist style censored discussion on slashdot!

But, the issue that concerens us the most, is the COMMENT QUOTA. A discrimatory system that stiffles discussion, cripples the community and will ultimateley destroy slashdot unless it is removed! Annoymous cowards are allowed only 10 posts a day! This is unethical! Users with negative karma only get two! That is DISCRIMINATION! How would you like to only be able to speak once a day, just because of the color of your skin. That would be racism, and slashdot is discrimitating on people just because of a negative number in a database! BOYCOTT SLASHDOT! LET THEM DIE!

We wan't these stupid useless restrictions REMOVED! This comment will be posted again and again until it does!

Inportant imformation for users
Boycott slashdot, they are pissing over their community, they are becoming like the RIAA and MICROSOFT! Do NOT TOLERATE THIS SHIT! Here are some real news for nerds sites. We don't need slashdot, slashdot deserves to die!

MSNBC
BBC NEWS
News.com
Linux online
Linux daily news network
Weird news from dailyrotten.com
Trollaxor, news for trolls, they are real people too!
CNN.com
New york times (free registration required)
LINUX.com
News forge
K5
Mandrake forum
Toms hardware
The register
Kde dot news
The linux kernel Archives
Adequecy
Xfree86.org

There are hundreds more, But this is where slashdot STEALS THE MAJORITY OF its "news" from.

Punish them, here are their emails, spam them, flame them goatse them!
Rob malda
Jamie Macarthy
ChrisD
Hemos
Micheal
Pudge

The others ones apperantly dont have an e-mail, probably because ROB MALDA IS PRETENDING HE IS JOHN KATZ.

Thank you for reading this, please feel free to repost this information, please reply to add your comments, fight slashdot and its CENSORSHIP

Don't forget to sign the petition!

DoD limits...

[jeffy124]

A quick read through that story shows nothing out of the ordinary. Anything that transmits something over air (cell phones, pagers, walkie-talkies, etc) is already banned from military and other government buildings, except in approved circumstances where the equipment was purchased by the gov't, or approved areas of certain buildings. I dont really see the "news" in that story.

Re:DoD limits...

[L1nUx h4x0r]

It is news because our esteemed editor, michael, thinks it is. Why are you going against the group?

Bart, Homer, Marge: One of us! One of us!

Anything that they say is news is. Anything they say is stupid is. Anything they say is cool, is. Why are you resisting?

Why aren't you listening to the tapes? Commander Taco is our hero. He is great and good and leads us to greatness and goodness. He will have the b33r eventually.

Remember, all your wire are belong to us. Spill not what your girlfriend's can gives you except to spill it on your girlfriend. A bong in the bushes is a hell of a lot safer than in on the interstate. Eleven plus two == tweleve plus one.

Smile, the guns are only pointed at your head.

Re:DoD limits...

[prisen]

This is all true. That's why I'm not able to get wireless, DSL, cable, or even ISDN. If I had the money for a T-1, I would not be able to get it because I live on a government installation. I sure hope someone can convince the g-man that us guys want some bandwhiffs too...

Not the proper role of government

[kmweber]

Everytime a story like this gets posted on /., this gets said. I'll be the first to say it this time:
Providing Internet access does not fall within the proper scope or role of any level of government.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Arcturax]

You complain when corporations provide it, then you complain when the government does it. So who should provide it then? Internet access doesn't grow on trees you know.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely you don't argue that the govt shouldn't provide infrastructure such as water, waster water, roads etc.

Why is it ok for the govt to provide other types of infrastructure but not communications infrastructure?

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Anonymous Coward]

It should be a community based network, setup like the Internet was at universities in the 90's. Nobody cared what you were doing as long as the servers stayed up, and the men in black didn't show up. Just apply power to the computers/servers in a room somewhere, hook up some wireless stuff, and let the community pay a 1 time fee for hardware and then a bandwidth charge per month. It should be less than $10. And you can use your laptop anywhere in the city.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Arcturax]

The problem is, despite the best of intentions, someone has to be in charge somehow. The reason you were able to have it set up by "the community" in a university is because that community was full of peopel who know how to do that. But in the wider community of say a city, there isn't enough expertise to go around, at least I don't think there is. I suppose if there were enough volunteers one could set this up, but you would have to find enough volunteers in that general area. You would also then have to find a way to pay for the equipment as well as the connection to the main internet.

Another problem is that, even in the universities, someone was in charge of this, and at some point they did start caring who did what, just try to log into Napster or any service which happens to use one of the popular Napster ports from a university and you will see what I mean.

The moral is, someone will eventually take control of the network and there is no way to guarentee that it won't ever happen. If we start with a community based system, eventually it will get taken over by either a company or local, state or federal government. If anything, it may be best to keep it in the local government because at least then it is easier to be heard than if it was all run by the feds, where only the rich are allowed to talk to the powerful.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Arcturax]

Ok, I don't know who modded this person down as troll, but that was wrong. Far as I can see, this person was modded troll because the moderator didn't agree with their viewpoint.

I didn't agree with them either as you can see by my post in reply to them, but save -1 troll for the real trolls, or better yet, modding up the GOOD posts, let those with endless mod points deal with the real trolls.

But if you must mod troll, do it real trolling, not just because you do not agree with a post. If you don't agree, REPLY and make your rebuttle, don't just slap someone down to where no one will read them, otherwise you become no better than the censors (DMCA anyone?) us Slashdotters all lothe.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[Helter]

Because whoever provides the infrastructure also controls the infrastructure.

Re:Not the proper role of government

[kmweber]

You complain when corporations provide it,

I do? Could've fooled me...

Re:Not the proper role of government

[kmweber]

Actually yeah, I do.

Water--people and businesses realize they need water to operate and live. Businesses also realize that their customers need water in order to live. A business, thus, has every reason to ensure that clean, affordable water is provided. Similarly, neighborhood associations and other voluntary organizations of individuals would be able to take care of maintaining water lines in their neighborhoods.

The same is true for roads--businesses realize they need roads to operate, so they would have every reason to maintain decent roads (available at no cost to the public) so that both customers and the goods the business sells can arrive at the location quickly and safely. And again, people need roads to get to work and businesses, so there is every reason for a neighborhood association to maintain roads within their area.

Wireless to replace floppies?

[mark_space2001]

No, you can't use wireless for a boot disk, I know. But with the recent news about Dell trying to make floppies obsolete, reported here on Slashdot, I just wondered if WiFi would be a good replacement instead of some other removeable media like compact flash.

There no moving parts to WiFi, so there's nothing to ever wear out. And the "media" is even cheaper than $1 floppies -- it's free!

Hmmm, now the only problem is geting companies to agree to a standard for the devices so there's no drivers. And some standard protocol so that everyone can always interchanged data. How many decades will that take? *grin* I suppose you shouldn't toss out your 3 1/2 " drives just yet...

Re:Wireless to replace floppies?

[vrmlknight]

Actually this got me thinking about my diskless workstation and how would I boot it wireless? Is their any sort of replacement/projects for pxe boot over wireless?

Re:Wireless to replace floppies?

[Anonymous Coward]

> There no moving parts to WiFi, so there's nothing to ever wear out

Network cards sure as hell wear out -- antennas get mushed and dongles get broken. I've worn out two 802.11b cards in the last four months.

It's also happening in Gainesville, Florida

[Zen Mastuh]

It looks like all the mid-sized cities are in a footrace. The City Commission wants to be an early adopter, and one vocal critic has been making some noise (sorry--no link b/c the local rag doesn't have the story in their web archive) even suggesting to demonstrate its vulnerability. How many repeats of this will we need before people start to pay attention?

Re:It's also happening in Gainesville, Florida

[i.r.id10t]

The Sun's article on the downtown G'ville project is here - you may also want to read the list archives for GWI (Gainesville Wireless Initiative). And there is an (intentionally) open access point at the new library on SFCC's main campus.

Re:What /. needs... [Y2KBugs Bunny]

[Anonymous Coward]

The trolls aren't gone.
We just get less posting rights on our traditional -1 accounts, hence why I am posting AC. We've also found new ways to piss people off... take TPS12 for example. Check out his 'another victory for open source' post... it's an ingenious troll.
It is just not so easily detectable and sometimes comes off as a play on karmawhores... so he doesn't get modded down by tacosnotters.
PS Your first post has been claimed by CLiT. Sorry there, mate, posting AC is for n00bs.

Liberty...

[Anonymous Coward]

Any attempt by the federal government to further limit the ability of United States citizens to monitor and/or use the airwaves in the United States is a grave mistake. In times of crises the use of radio and similar communication devices by amateurs has helped immensely. Had they been invented at the time, our forefathers would have suggested having a radio in addition to powder, ball, and musket.

I am not suggesting that such technologies shouldn't be regulated. Airwave frequencies must be regulated! What I am saying is that as soon as radio communications are restricted for use by military and commercial purposes only, than liberties ears may be silenced forever.

Re:Liberty...

[Anonymous Coward]

The revolution may not be televised - though it WILL be broadcast...

I don't understand the headline

[Anonymous Coward]

"Wireless Clouds for Good and III"

Is that some obscure USAsian culture humour? Please advise, I just don't get it!

Nothing is ever free

[alen]

They may have to start raising local taxes for this.

Re:Nothing is ever free

[Anonymous Coward]

That's when it will be shut down.

Why should my taxes go to pay for other people's internet connectivity?

Re:Nothing is ever free

[jeffy124]

good point, but read it this way -- If you pay taxes for it, using it makes your taxes worth it. If you dont use it, it's effectively money down the toilet from your point of view.

Re:Nothing is ever free

[popu]

I dont own a car... I can walk or ride my bike everywhere I go. Why should my taxes go to pay for other people's transportation (roads)?

Because people agree that roads are needed even though not everyone uses them. Same goes for this. If enough people agree that its needed then it doesnt really matter if you want/need it... youll be paying for it either way.

Re:Nothing is ever free

[afidel]

Do you eat or consume anything that comes from more than 2 miles from your domicile? Ok then you use roads. Fresh OJ from florida or california, bananas from central america, wheat from kansas, milk from cows in ohio, eggs from who knows where, maple syrup from canada. And that was just for breakfast! We are all benifieries of the modern transportation system that is made possible by the interstate highway system. Besides much of the money comes from gasoline taxes which you don't pay for directly unless you use the roads (you of course pay for it in the cost of goods purchased but then that is fair because getting the goods to you used the roads.)

Re:Nothing is ever free

[Shagg]

Do you eat or consume anything that comes from more than 2 miles from your domicile? Ok then you use roads. Fresh OJ from florida or california

But when you pay for that OJ, aren't the taxes that the OJ supplier pays built into the price per gallon of orange juice? In other words, you're paying the supplier's "road tax" for delivery of consumer goods every time you buy something at the store.

Re:Nothing is ever free

[Anonymous Coward]

People don't agree that a free 'wireless cloud' is needed.

Re:Nothing is ever free

[HawkinsD]

But think about it this way:

If the net effect is to bring more people downtown, and that boosts sales at local businesses, then the idea is that the city will recoup their investment with from the increased sales taxes.

So it's not free, but it might pay for itself.

Whats the big deal about the Pentagon?

[Arcturax]

When I saw the Pentagon mentioned along with a crackdown, I expected something about them cracking down on citizens. Instead it is simply about the Pentagon taking the wise move to curtail wireless WITHIN the military only use until they can be assured it can be used securely. That strikes me as a smart move, closing a hole that a terrorist or assassin might have otherwise used. Its good to see those in the Pentagon using their brains and thinking of interesting ways they might have security problems rather than having a tragedy happen first.

Starting your own wireless ISP

[Jacer]

Step one, find geeky friends within community. Step two, convince them the T1 should be at your house. Step three, setup equipment, use wireless repeaters ect, make sure that when you actually order the T1, that you get enough IP addresses to avoid NAT Step four, assign your traffic as priority, with a maximum of 98% of the bandwidth, and claim you don't know what the problem is

Re:Starting your own wireless ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

Step 2 is a problem if your friends are geeks. If they are just your normal neighbors paying $40/month for high speed access, then you may be able to cover up that 98% thing.

Re:Starting your own wireless ISP

[Anonymous Coward]

you left out steps 5 and 6:

5) ???

6) Profit!

Wireless Ort! w00t!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now Ort and Ed Tant can pester people all over the world and not take time off from pestering people on the street.

Other places in Georgia

[MoonFacedAssassin]

Athens isn't the only place starting things like this. Valdosta State University has a wireless network spread out over most of the campus. Supposedly there is Wi-Fi being setup in Valdosta itself, nothing known whether or not it is a free service venture.

GA Tech also has a couple of projects going on here and here.
Georgia Southwestern State University also has an endeavour. As does the Medical College of Georgia.

Austin, Texas?!

[Anonymous Coward]

When is something like this going to start happening in Austin, Texas? I can't believe I live in one of the most important IT cities in the nation and can't get decent internet broadband.

Anyone considering doing this in Austin?

Re:Austin, Texas?!

[stoolpigeon]

I'm considering it right now.

Oops! it's gone- now I'm considering lunch.

.

For good and evil?

[bob_jenkins]

Didn't you mean for Good and 666?

Re:For good and evil?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I think he really meant 3. Otherwise, he would had written DCLXVI, right?

Simple sanity check for fonts

[Anonymous Coward]

for (i = 32; i < 127; i++) {
for (j = i+1; j < 127; j++) {
if (Identical(bitmap[i], bitmap[j])) {
printf("bad font, try again\n");
exit(1);
}
}
}

What about Atlanta?!?!

[mattster999]

How is it that an Athens network with 1 node gets a spot on CNN TV and online, and in the AJC, yet the The Atlanta FreeNet can't get diddly even though it tries? I mean, look at their website that CNN Linked to... December meeting minutes?!?! Please.

Responsibility

[Tazzy531]

In an earlier speech at the same conference, President Bush's top cybersecurity adviser, Richard Clarke, said the technology industry was acting irresponsibly by selling wireless tools such as computer network devices that remain remarkably easy for hackers to attack.

The industry's most common data-scrambling technique designed to keep out eavesdroppers, called the wireless encryption protocol, can be broken -- usually in less than five minutes -- with software available on the Internet.

"It is irresponsible to sell a product in a way that can be so easily misused by a customer in a way that jeopardizes their confidential and proprietary and sensitive information," Clarke said.

I think that is the dumbest analysis ever. Everyone that has to worry about confidential data and has the know-how of setting up a wireless network already knows that the medium is insecure. The industry never promised a secure network. I mean, if he wants to take this route, why don't we say that it was irresponsible that they developed the internet because TCP/IP is also rather insecure.

Also, why don't they use the same line with guns. "The gun industry is inherently irresponsible because guns are inherently dangerous and insecure" or "The airline industry is acting irresponsibly because they don't have locks on the cockpit doors."

I think what many people fail to see is that originally, the internet was based on a trust system. It was more important to get data through then to protect them. That however has changed. However, we shouldn't tell the industry to stop innovating because of the potential for misuse. Wireless devices are a great leap from the wired networks of prior. And it is widely known that anything going over a public network is inherently insecure.

I would argue that this "cybersecurity advisor" really has no idea what he's talking about.

Re:Responsibility

[Tazzy531]

Second thought.

In addition, it is up to the implementers choice of whether and/or how to implement the wireless infrastructure. The government should not be telling the industry to stop producing such devices because of poor implementation.

that's like saying the car industry should stop producing cars because there are a number of bad drivers on the road...

Re:Responsibility

[djtack]

What's really ironic, is that Clarke is labeling the wireless vendors as irresponsible for selling weak crypto, yet U.S. gov't has a long history of trying to suppress strong crypto.

Re:Responsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Richard Clarke, should have said that Microsoft was acting irresponsibly by selling messaging tools such as Outlook that remain remarkably easy for hackers to attack.

Re:Responsibility

[jeffy124]

right on.

Bruce Scheneir (sp?) has written about this many times. Most intrusions on computer systems and networks are not the fault of the vendor, it's the fault of the admin who doesnt apply timely patches, not updating virus defs, expectsing the equipment to do all the work for him. Bruce's rationale is that good security is a process, not a product. And he's right. I also think his proposed solution is correct - cracker insurance providers should enforce good security by granting lower rates after they audit a system and certify it secure; higher rates for insecure setups.

Re:Responsibility

[0xdeadbeef]

And for passing laws that allow vendors to bully people in the attempt to cover-up their failure to fix shoddy products...

Re:Responsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone that has to worry about confidential data and has the know-how of setting up a wireless network already knows that the medium is insecure.

Huh? Walk into your local electronics mega-market and look in the networking section. Note the shelves of wireless access-points and cards, all claiming to be plug-n-play. Ordinary people without degrees in computer security are supposed to be able to set these things up, and such people *do* have valuable confidential data. (Plenty of people bank on-line these days, for example.)

more radio waves

[Anonymous Coward]

As nice as wireless internet is, the last thing we need inundating the countryside is more radio waves. We already have a couple different communication mediums blasting through our bodies (and quite possibly disturbing our cells) at every imaginable angle and mind boggling frequency. Maybe we should stop violating every inch of humanity with radiation just for the sake of bandwidth.

Big clouds of radio communication hovering over the populace just don't seem that appealing, especially when most of it is counterstrike and porn.

Re:more radio waves

[Arcturax]

Much as I shudder at the thought of nude Janet Reno pics going through my body, we've been have Nsync, Backstreet Boys, Michael Jackson, Rush Limbaugh and Howard Stern passing through our bodies for a long time now and as far as I know, no ones died from it yet.

change of tune for DOD?

[Hollins]

President Bush's top cybersecurity adviser, Richard Clarke, said the technology industry was acting irresponsibly by selling wireless tools such as computer network devices that remain remarkably easy for hackers to attack.

The industry's most common data-scrambling technique designed to keep out eavesdroppers, called the wireless encryption protocol, can be broken -- usually in less than five minutes -- with software available on the Internet.

A few years ago, the U.S. government attempted to make all encryption crackable by government agencies by mandating key escrow or weak encryption. At one point, they even tried to jail Phil Zimmermann for creating and publishing PGP. Now they're berating vendors for making encryption in their products too weak and have become advocates for strong consumer encryption. Other countries that have had no encryption controls in the past are now trying to adopt key escrow requirements.

I find the reversal fascinating. Few easier ways exist to execute an electronic wiretap than to packet-sniff the subject's WiFi connection. I'm curious if there are internal struggles over encryption policy.

Re:change of tune for DOD?

[Anonymous Coward]

you're a little misinformed. Zimmermann had legal troubles not over creating PGP, but rather possible export violations. Recall that it's illegal (in the US) to export "high-grade" encryption to certain blacklisted countries.

Yes, people will say that the determined folk will find a way around it (like OpenBSD; smuggling PGP out of US on a CD or set of floppies, etc), but now the gov't unfortunately has Shoe Bomber Richard Reid's computer to point to as a proof-of-concept that the restrictions work. The machine was using Win2K's export-compliant encrypted file system, and at 40-bit keys, was brute-forced by the NY Times over a weekend.

DSL?

[callmechowdaz]

I keep seeing people mention ordering a T1 for Internet access for the wireless network. Why not use DSL? If someone is just going to setup a network for neighbors or the community is there a problem with DSL?

Re:DSL?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, DSL is perfectly feasible. It is just that the bulk of the help desk slobs who visit /. like to use terms like "T1" because it makes them look "hip" and "in the know".

Re:DSL?

[zerofunk]

Well this particular article focuses more on wireless ISPs in rural areas where DSL access isn't widespread, thus the appeal of wireless being able to step in and fulfill the lack of broadband access. However, you are right. If you set this up somewhere with DSL access, that'd probably be the cheaper way to go.

How is this a counterpoint?

[Osiris Ani]

"In a counterpoint to that, we have the Pentagon cracking down on wireless devices...."

How is this at all counter to the preceding story? Though I think 802.11x devices are suitable for trivial and lightweight network traffic, I don't use it at home because of inherent security flaws (among other reasons). Similarly, I don't give out my credit card info over my cordless or cellular phones. Yes, fine, I'm paranoid though my needs for secrecy - as a private citizen - are relatively moderate.

However, I certainly don't see any reason why the US military shouldn't regulate the use of largely unregulated communications within its own sphere of influence. Seriously, these are some of the same people who modify computers for zero electromagnetic emissions. Why wouldn't they want to minimize the risks inherent in utilizing unsecured public bandwidth?

Re:How is this a counterpoint?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why incovenience yorself? If you have a decent credit card company, they offer fraud protection anyway. All you need to do is keep track of what you've charged, and immediately cancel the card and have any unauthorized charges removed, if you find anything funky. The chances of getting ripped off like that are so slim, depending on who you are and where you live, that it's silly for 95% of the population to be that paranoid.
Check into the agreement on your card if you don't have a pretty much "no questions asked" fraud protection, then you need a different card. The only reason your agreement doesn't fully protect you, is if you have really bad credit, or the card issuer just needs to lose you as a customer. Shop around, and save yourself the hassle! Also, ID registration services can help you protect your personal information, don't walk around like someone's going to get you, it's no way to live! It has to stop somewhere.

"Wireless Clouds for Good and Ill"

[AyeRoxor!]

For good and three?

huh? :P

Finally

[Fascist Christ]

This is exactly what the US needs. More options. It's so limited now. If you are lucky you can choose from a set of one (1) cable ISP. We need to see more of this in the communications industry. It would be nice, for example, to see cell phones cost comparitively close to land lines, if not cheaper. Japan can do it, so can we. We just need more far-sighted people.

Re:Finally

[MisterTwo]

True, however I remember reading on this site that a land line in Japan was ~$600 with a long waiting list.. Shouldn't be hard to be cheaper than that! -Jason

Re:Finally

[Fascist Christ]

If landlines aren't being used much anymore, it makes sense to me that their price would increase. (ie: not enough customers to cover expenses) I don't know if this is the whole case in Japan, but I would think that it would be a factor.

In other words (and for the fun of illustration, NOT to insult your intelligence), say a service you provide costs you $1000/month regardless of the number of customers. With 1000 customers, you can make a 100% profit by charging them $2/month. But if you only have ten customers (maybe because your customers found a better and more convenient service), then you would need to charge them $100/month just to break even.

Of course, if your cost is relative to your customer base, then this philosophy may have little effect on you. On the other hand, there aren't many businesses that I can think of that can stay in business and hold competitive prices if they don't have enough customers.

...you might be a redneck...

[Naatach]

I can see it now: "If you Wi-Fi in Athens to sell off your $20,000 stash of NASCAR collectables on E-bay... you might be a redneck." "If you use the Athens Wireless Network to update your "I love Dale Earnhardt" webpage... You might be a redneck."

Hoax

[Anonymous Coward]

The boy, who is 12 years old, told an anti-terrorism court in the southern Punjab city of Dera Ghazi Khan that he was sodomised by a group of men in June including an American journalist Jon Katz.

12 is too old for anyone on the /. staff.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are my moderator points when I need them.

OK, fine.

[Dthoma]

And exactly *how* will the military enforce itself in this way?

Military dude A: Hey, hadn't I better send you those top secret plans?
Military dude B: Uh, I guess so.
Military dude A: OK, I'm sending it now.
Military dude B: Are you doing it securely?
Military dude A: Nah, takes too long.
Military dude B: Oh, OK.

Meanwhile, outside...

Cracker: This is so cool! I've just managed to snag the plans for a top-secret quantum computer!

Winternet

[Rupert]

Winternet were my dialup ISP before I got cable. They are still going.

Sem@code ... WiFi URL barcodes

[sbwoodside]

Check out my Sem@code page. Also mentioned here.

To quote myself:

Here's what you need: a WiFi device; a public node; a CueCat or any other barcode scanner. If you're all geared up, then you can jump the gun on ubiquitous computing. You might use sem@code, a barcode that encodes a URL. With a wireless or mobile internet device, you just scan the barcode into your URL field, and voila! you load the website it links to.

Sem@codes are public tags for URLs. This is not pie-in-the-sky stuff: for example, over three million CueCat scanners were distributed (you can get one on eBay). With that or any other barcode scanner attached to your laptop, you can read semacodes. In addition, your or anyone else can generate sem@codes with open-source software online.

Simon

Hi-tech red-neck

[0xdeadbeef]

Not an exageration. Indeed, there is a propensity for holding "Gun and Computer" shows in the civic centers of rural Georgia.

You may laugh, but the modern redneck knows computers like they know guns and trucks. And they were into HAM and CBs long before the teenybopper set learned the advantages of cell phones.

Of course, Athens isn't exactly a redneck Mecca. It's more like the Berkeley of Georgia.

Athens can thank REM.

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously influenced by the free wireless network advocacy message in their first smash hit, Radio Free Europe...

Downtown Athens

[Dimitri-san]

Of course, the article states that the cloud is only over downtown Athens to a radius of about 3 blocks. Not much good there, as downtown is a horrid place full of trouble-seeking high-school kids, drunk/drugged college students, and homeless people. The "main drag" reeks of petuli oil and cigarettes (not just tobacco!) and the side streets smell of worse things.

Most adults who actually live in Athens tend to avoid downtown. Based on this fact, a wireless network sponsored by UGA and the government translates into the government trying to appease the university at the expense of its own full-time residents (yet again!). Apparently, UGA can't even get it right as the all the computer/technology departments at UGA are on South Campus, which is much further away from downtown than the liberal arts-heavy North Campus. If they're trying to deploy this technology and actually have students that will use (and test) it, they started on the wrong end of campus!

Great idea, bad implementation plan. Very few of the full-time citizens will ever get any use out of this technology, yet they will be the ones stuck paying for it.

PS: Before anyone from Athens gets all high-and-mighty about the wonders of downtown, I lived 28 years in or near Athens, and I remember when downtown was the best place to go in Athens. Alas, the mall opened up across town and downtown was abandoned. What's there now is a shadow of what it once was.

Re:Downtown Athens

[shepmaster]

Well, I still live in Athens, and I frankly think I don't go downtown enough. It is one of the better downtowns that I have had the opportunity to be in/around. As a former high-school student and current college student (not at UGA, however) I have to resent your first few statements about the type of people downtown.

The article also points out that while it is 3 blocks now, they hope to move it to 24 soon. You point out that adults avoid downtown. I assume you mean people who aren't in college. But the college kids are exactly who would be most likely to use this. Imagine a student who goes to lunch at the Bluebird Cafe (excellent vegan stuff). The said student can have his/her PDA/laptop and do some research for the next class, etc. I'm not saying everyone will, but no one will if the infrastructure is not in place.

I do agree with some of your points however. A campus-wide network should exist for every college in the US. (being an electrical engineering / computer science major allows me to say that :) ) Athens' smell reminds me of a sea port in Italy that I got to visit with UGA's study-abroad program, but it isn't everywhere, so you are partially right about that.

Now I just wish I had that Powerbook G4 to go downtown with.

Re:Downtown Athens

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. But what do you expect from a north campus person? (shamp) is a journalism professor really, who think he is a programmer. If you are really interested in Wi-Fi on South Campus, Surendar Chandra, a CS professor, has a system setup that serves Boyd and some of the Science library. The AI guys have another one that they don't tell anybody about down there too. Overall a large south campus system would catch on.

Well this is good news...

[Uttles]

As a graduate of computer engineering I sure would have loved to sit in the middle of downtown Athens (or on Bowman Field in Clemson where I went to school) and watch all the cute girls while having a remote X client window open to work on all my silly little projects. Of course, I may not have graduated then...

PS: The story is here too

Re:Well this is good news...

[SN74S181]

What the hell is 'Computer Engineering.'

There are two formal disciplines of engineering that are accredited:

Electrical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering.

All others 'engineerings' are handwaving and shortcuts implemented by various schools and organizations to get a bunch of people out there in industry plugging stuff in, etc.

I am not an EE or a ME. I'm at least honest about the fact that I'm not an engineer.

Re:Well this is good news...

[Uttles]

I graduated from an accredited engineering school with a focus in computer engineering. I took the exact same classes as the electrical engineering students up until my senior year, when I took things like Software Practicum, Digital Signal Processing, etc. I am an Engineer, if you don't agree, kiss my ass.

Re:Well this is good news...

[Anonymous Coward]

do'oh. I *just* graduated from UGA, and I used to sit for days at coffee shops with my laptop under this 'cloud'. Now starbucks may think that the existence of Wi-Fi to downtown is why its phone bill went down so much this month.

Error in CNN Article

[Jeremy Erwin]

The industry's most common data-scrambling technique designed to keep out eavesdroppers, called the wireless encryption protocol, can be broken -- usually in less than five minutes -- with software available on the Internet.


WEP actually stands for Wired Equivalent Privacy. It was intended as a means of ensuring that wireless users could have the same level of privacy as users using a wired network-- not as an secure communications protocol. (Of course, WEP does not even provide that level of "privacy").

Aren't there better privacy/security options available for Wireless devices?

Espionage

[Mulletproof]

"...trying to control information leakage."

It's worth noting that this was how we spied on the soviets for years during the cold war-- Through wireless phone communications before they learned that some of that stuff might be better off encrypted or left to land-lines. That and rigging their Xerox machines when they were first invented for photo duplication ^__^

Heehee! I'm in the middle of this!

[Kintanon]

I'm currently sitting just within the edge of this cloud on Clayton street. Of course, I have no wi-fi devices to play with right now, but who knows....
I'm kind of surprised this made it to CNN, it's really underplayed around Campus, you don't hear a lot about it. Also, I'm wondering how toe UGA infrastructure will handle it, they are notorious for poor network performance despite MASSIVE bandwidth.

Kintanon

Wireless Devices in Pentagon

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just in the Pentagon last week, and I was shocked at the stuff people had in secure locations in there... Cell phones, wireless PDAs, digital cameras... All stuff that's forbidden at my normal secure site. It's nice to see that they're cracking down on it!

SO much for Wednesday morning-

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

My vision is really goofed up today, I thought the title of the story was:

"Wireless Clowns for Good and Ill" ...oopppps...

Setting this up

[MrWa]

Looking over the Raylink site makes this very, very appealing. Does anyone have experience - or links to somewhere - about setting this up? Questions:

1. Interoperability with other OS's - the site mentions support for Windows only.

1. Controlling access.

1. Setting up accounts and billing.

1. What services must be provided (i.e. do you really need to provide POP3 accounts or Usenet?)

It would be nice - and extrememly cool - to be able to get out from under the thumb of my DSL provider while giving (selling!!) access to others in the area. Given that this appears to be cheap (equipment + fast connection to share + time = ????) it is very tempting...

Narrow scope?

[kilfarsnar]

"It is irresponsible to sell a product in a way that can be so easily misused by a customer in a way that jeopardizes their confidential and proprietary and sensitive information," Clarke said.

In that case, you'd think they would go after Microsoft with a little more gusto! ;-)

Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

At a military project office near me, you can't go inside unless you turn off your cell phone. But at the same time, they're starting to encourage Blackberry usage by providing them to senior managers, and telling contractors they'll soon need a Blackberry to stay in touch.

Re:Fidonet. and horrible puns.

[Valdrax]

Since this is all being done by the Wireless Athens Group, is this all just an attempt to WAG the Dawgs?

Aussies vs. Americans

[silentbozo]

Ironically, it appears that not being allowed to share wireless internet access without having to pay a hefty licensing fee is helping to drive the growth of non-commercial regional networks in Australia. Most of the networks I've found in the states are for the purpose of sharing someone's broadband. I have yet to find one that is for a neighborhood network that is active and growing. I guess since we can get broadband access for so cheap here, we're not driven to building giant wireless LANs in order to get more bandwidth.

On a different topic, if you bridge access points, can you still control who gets to peer with your bridge? I'm thinking no, unless you filter out their packets, but maybe someone who actually knows how 802.11b works can give a definitive answer...

Seattle

[silentbozo]

www.seattlewireless.net