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Transatlantic Model Airplane Flight to Begin Shortly

dtmos writes "An update on this old story -- Maynard Hill's attempt to fly an 11-lb. model airplane across the Atlantic (from Newfoundland to Ireland) is due to begin tomorrow night, Newfoundland time. This would be the first transatlantic flight by a true model under FAI rules (this plane was too large to qualify). News and updates, background information, some technical info."

45 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. I work with one of these guys... by staggerlee · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...he's in the General Services department at National Geographic (and a better code and hardware hacker, in all senses of the word, than anyone in our IS group). This guy's spent months trying to build a GPS that would fit on your watch face.

    The funny thing here is that he went to NG to offer them coverage - he wasn't looking for funding or anything - and they declined, saying there wouldn't be enough interest. Well now it's in the Post, it's on /. and to cap it all off, who's doing a TV special about it? Discovery. Ain't that a swift kick in the crotch.

    Congrats, Foster - clear skies =)

    --
    "I woo women with my sensuous and godlike trombone playing."
    1. Re:I work with one of these guys... by TheTomcat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Too bad he hasn't learned basic rules of HTML:
      http://www.home.earthlink.net/~barrettjf/Images\TA M%201_map.gif

      Backslashes and spaces. Pfft. (fixed in the link above).
      (-:

      That said, someone else prolly did the site.

      S

  2. Track their progress online by joshua404 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here Looks very cool!

  3. Good luck by PhysicsGenius · · Score: 2, Troll
    A tiny plane like a model will never make it across the Atlantic because airplanes don't scale down. Lift (==control) rises as the square of the size whereas weight rises as the cube. So when you have a tiny plane it is mostly lift. Which sounds great, except that human reaction times and amounts are grossly oversized to control something so unstable. Flying around the backyard is fine, choppy winds and extensive times are another.

    And don't even get me started on the inadequacy of the power source to last that long. Crazy dreamer.

    1. Re:Good luck by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lift is a function of the shape of the wing's airfoil, the size of the wing, the angle of attack at which the wing is flying, and the speed of the airflow over the wing. It does not equal control and I have no idea what you mean in terms of it rises as a square. Two wings of exactly the same square footage can have different lifting capabilities based solely on the aspect ratio of the wing (ie the length compared the width). That is why you may have noticed that gliders have long skinny wings- they maximize the lift for the given amount of area.

      The choppy winds will pose less of a problem in many respects also. The "choppiness" is caused by different aircurrents affecting the aircraft simultaneously. In a 747 moving at 600kts with a 200' length, you are going to intersect numerous sheers of aircurretns repeatedly, bouncing the plane around and causing the "choppiness". A slow tiny thing like this model just isn't going to have that problem.

      Personally I wish them well. They are undertaking a great challenge, and I would love to be there with them!

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    2. Re:Good luck by dougmc · · Score: 2
      Flying around the backyard is fine, choppy winds and extensive times are another.

      Obviously you have no clue, `PhysicsGenius'. Actually get some experience with model airplanes, and come back later.

  4. At last! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny

    Stuart Little will be able to visit his relatives overseas!

    1. Re:At last! by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 2

      yeah, but could he shoot down Iceman? NO! So, like, HA!

  5. Power for their engine by Damion · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope they remember to wind that rubber band up really really tightly...

    --
    Common sense is what tells you the world is flat.
  6. Re:From the April 2001 /. postings by frog51 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At the risk of sounding like a troll, there are some issues here:

    1000lb is a bit more than 11lb, and in fact can be already done. That is why the military have radar, guns and missiles. The clever bit here is that this is very small. Very impressive if it makes it all that way.

    What would happen to the US if a bomb did go off at the Oscars? Very little. Yes it would be a disaster/massacre of innocents, but it won't affect the economy like the twin towers attack.

    This is not a useful model for any type of private cruise missile. Spy plane, maybe. Secret courier, yep. Heavy weapon, erm...nope.

  7. Re:Well, talk about an increase in drug traffic... by Gaijin42 · · Score: 2

    No, the bomber was not invisible because it was the size of a bird. The bomber is huge. It was invisible because it had the radar signature of a bird.

  8. The doomsday people... by Uttles · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Have been asking about using this for bombs... Well, the US already has these that carry bombs, we're using them in Afghanistan. As far as this actual plane goes and any citizen trying to use one, it could never carry a bomb. It could, however, carry some sort of airborn biological weapon, but there are numerous examples of how hard it would be to actually hurt someone with a small amount of bio warfare.

    --

    ~ now you know
  9. Re:From the April 2001 /. postings by Xentax · · Score: 2

    Plus, why would terrorists try to do something like that pilotless? It's higher-tech (meaning harder to acquire and costing more), and (for a while yet) less reliable than a suicidal but reasonably-well-trained human pilot.

    I don't think we'll see a pilotless terrorist bomb/plane anytime soon -- it'll be crazy guys at the helm of a Cessna -- or a Jetliner :( -- for some time yet.

    Xentax

    --
    You shouldn't verb words.
  10. GPLed do-it-yourself kit by tramm · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Since Slashdot is now 100% robotics stories, you might be interested in building your own autopilot kit for model airplanes and helicopters. It isn't perfect yet, but we're getting there.

    The hardware design and source code are all GPLed and available. The most recent releases have an OpenGL helicopter simulator for you to play with as well.

    --
    -- http://www.swcp.com/~hudson/
    1. Re:GPLed do-it-yourself kit by Kredal · · Score: 2

      Sure, but can you make them out of LEGO(tm) blocks?

      If not, there's no point in putting it on Slashdot.

      --
      Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
    2. Re:GPLed do-it-yourself kit by snatchitup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why are you using a MAX231. Doesn't that require charge pumps (Capacitors). Live a little and spend the extra $2 on a MAX233 that doesn't require the pumps. Space is a valuable commodity here.

      Save some money by doing it scrapping the more expensive ATMega163 (though a great choice over the newbie PIC processors and Basic Stamps).

      If you go with the AT90S-8515 you still get plenty of I/O, PWM, Serial I/O, though you'll have to hand code some A-D conversion. Maybe that's why you're going with the 163?

    3. Re:GPLed do-it-yourself kit by tramm · · Score: 2
      snatchitup wrote:
      Why are you using a MAX231. Doesn't that require charge pumps (Capacitors). Live a little and spend the extra $2 on a MAX233 that doesn't require the pumps.
      I wish the MAX233 were available in a DIP10 -- power, ground, Tx/Rx 1, Tx/Rx 2 -- rather than the DIP20. It is larger than the 231 with the two charge pump capacitors.
      Space is a valuable commodity here.
      If I could do SMD work by hand, I would!
      If you go with the AT90S-8515 you still get plenty of I/O, PWM, Serial I/O, though you'll have to hand code some A-D conversion. Maybe that's why you're going with the 163?
      The 163 offers a hardware multiply, self programing memory, an ADC, twice as much memory (both flash and SRAM) and a few more timers. We're using all of those features. The price at DigiKey is only two dollar difference between the 8515-8 and the 163.

      Thanks for the suggestions! Sign up for the mailing list -- we can always use help with the engineering side of things.

      --
      -- http://www.swcp.com/~hudson/
  11. Cheating by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here we go again! Just like the baloonist flew "around the world", we have another fake world record attempt at "crossing the atlantic".

    The "around the world" baloon flight was no more than a circle around antarctica.

    Traditionally, I think "crossing the atlantic" means crossing THE WHOLE THING. From US east coast, to Europe's west coast. I'm sorry, but Newfoundland to Iceland doesn't cut it. Granted, flying a model plane over that distance is an admirable feat, but I don't think it would qualify for a world record.

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    1. Re:Cheating by Just+Another+Perl+Ha · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ummmm.... I think you'd better get those eyes of yours checked out. The target is not Iceland... but rather Ireland. Albeit, there is only one character difference in the names.

    2. Re:Cheating by demaria · · Score: 2

      If the distance between newfoundland and iceland is further then the distance of the current longest model airplane flight, then isn't it a world record?

      Keep in mind, just this week somewhere in California a world record was set for most simultaneous breast feedings.

    3. Re:Cheating by Keeper · · Score: 2

      Last time I checked, crossing something doesn't require taking the longest possible path...

      You start in a body of land on one side of the atlantic. You land in another body of land on the other side. You've crossed it.

  12. Re:Not that amazing by GutBomb · · Score: 3, Funny

    if you launch a paper plane from mir it is not going to fily very far at all. ocean water will destroy the paper.

  13. Does it have a little model by ch-chuck · · Score: 2

    Charles Lindburg pilot figureen?

    Anyone interesting in getting into model airplanes, esp. the new 'parkflyer' electrics (if you can't stand glow fuel, caster oil 'slimers') should read up at RC Groups - you can get a pretty good flight at the local soccer field with nice, quiet parkflyer electrics. I've just finished something called a Wing-E and it's a ball to fly in my nearby school yard, get's at least 10 minutes of aerobatic fun off one battery charge.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  14. Excellent! Now, try that without a power plant! by TheLocustNMI · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, i guess the next OBVIOUS step is a plane that can cross the Atlantic on nothing but thermals and tailwinds!

    I mean, when you can keep an unpowered plane aloft for 36 hours, why not? Well, so far the straight-line distance record is only 226km, but with a GPS autopilot, and a thermal detection unit (get the scientist working on the tube technology immediately!), who knows!

    FAI RC Model Records for Gliders

    Lift!

  15. Good Use as Cheap Military Drones by sqlzealot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The military is currently spending millions of dollars on next gen drone technology like like the Predator and Global Hawk when stuff like model airplanes has been under their noses the whole time. If this can fly to Iceland it can certainly fly around Afghanistan for a day or two. This model airplane couldn't have cost more than a couple thousand to make. Stuff an satellite phone and a webcam in there and you have cheap drone for less than $10k. You could buy hundreds of these for the price of one of those big drones. Imagine them swarming the skies, looking for baddies. Lot harder to avoid and hide from than one big drone. Big plus is model airplanes are SMALL! Give a pair to every special forces unit on the ground and they have quick intelligance in a pinch. Too bad military procurement is controlled by expensive-toy-loving generals and profit-seeking industrialists.

    sigless

    --
    "Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
    1. Re:Good Use as Cheap Military Drones by happyclam · · Score: 2
      Give a pair to every special forces unit on the ground and they have quick intelligance in a pinch.

      Hey, good idea. We should also give this idea to Operation TIPS. Imagine how much more efficient their snitches could be.

      And I understand x10 is coming out with a model airplane version of their wireless camera... (if they're not, they should!).

      --
      He looked at me and said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send your fingerprints off to Washington."
    2. Re:Good Use as Cheap Military Drones by dougmc · · Score: 2
      Even if X10 doesn't do it, there's lots of companies out there who will sell you model airplanes with small transmitting cameras. In fact, it's scary how many people are trying to fill this niche ...

      Especially since it's a simple matter of buying the plane yourself, building it yourself, and then buying and installing some sort of wireless camera yourself. No need to pay somebody else to do it -- this is hardly rocket science.

  16. Re:Well, talk about an increase in drug traffic... by AlecC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As already said, the stealth bomber is untrackable because of extensive use of stealth technology to make it radar invisible.

    I once saw a copper-coated table tennis ball which, it was claimed, was used to test the anti-intruder radar. The placard claimed it was throw out of a high-altitude aircraft and tracked by radar as it fell to earth, beint blown this way and that by the wind. When it landed, they sent a man out to pick it up - which he usually did.

    Sealth technology has a big impact on flyability. I would expect that this plane, unstealthed, would have a radar crossection bigger than my table tennis ball, and stealthing it would ruin the range.

    --
    Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  17. 11 lbs.... by Heem · · Score: 2

    If this thing weighs only 11 lbs, including fuel, I'd venture to say it only has 1 to 1.5 gallons of fuel in it, MAX. Now, I don't know much about model aviation and how efficient their engines are, but even with the very light weight, thats quite a distance for that amount of fuel..

    --
    Don't Tread on Me
    1. Re:11 lbs.... by Magus311X · · Score: 2

      Well, I have a few nitro RC cars. Let's look at one.

      ~1HP on 20% nitromethane blend.
      Fuel tank: 75cc
      1 gallon = 4546cc or about 60 tanks of fuel

      My car has a top speed of 68mph or so (and can hit 60 in around 4.5 seconds when geared to do it). But to maintain sane fuel economy... it has to sit around 22krpm, or around 35mph. It can go on that for about 10 minutes (though maybe 12).

      Or 6 tanks per hour
      Or 10 hours
      10 hours at 35mph = 350mpg

      Keep in mind that this is a high-performance, fuel sucking, 35krpm peak, engine. It also doesn't have the weight of a bottle of nitro either on it. But I think 300mpg is possible. 1HP could move 10 pounds (car and fuel) that I would surmise.

      -----

  18. Autonomous Trans-atlantic Soaring by g00bd0g · · Score: 2, Informative

    Dynamic soaring has just recently come into a practical reality. It is an absolutley insane way to have some fun. http://www.reeseproductions.com/mpegs/QuickTime/LT 1large.html
    I have heard some very serious discussion from Joe Wurts about developing Autonomous Dynamic Soaring aircraft able to cross the atlantic, like the albatross.
    http://www.reeseproductions.com/mpegs/ QuickTime/LT 1large.html

  19. New hobby time! by T3kno · · Score: 2

    Where do I get the plans to build one of those gliders? That was awesome.

    --
    (B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
  20. Re:Air traffic controller by vofka · · Score: 3, Informative

    Err - no...

    Commercial ATC Operators don't 'see' the aircraft on screen, they 'see' a transponder signal (known as a 'squawk') which is sent by the transponder unit when the ATC Radar strikes a detector on the aircraft. Only Military Radar Operators actually 'see' a true radar return signal.

    --
    Disclaimer: I meant what I thought, not what I wrote! What? You can't read my Mind? Oh dear!
  21. Less than that even by SimJockey · · Score: 2

    Another article I read indicated a fuel consumption of about 2 oz. per hour. Using a nominal 40 hr of flying time, 80 oz = .625 gal. Which would be about 3.5 - 4 lb of fuel.
    Nice fuel consumption of 1900 miles per 0.625 gal or 3000+ mpg!!!

    --
    Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
  22. Re:PaperPlane over the Atlantic ... by AGMW · · Score: 2, Funny
    That means we can fill a bowl with water from the Atlantic and fly a Paperplane over it - Hey Presto - We've flown a PaperPlane over the Atlantic ...

    Won't mum be pleased!

    --
    Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
    handmadehands.co.uk
  23. Imagine the fisherman... by sdo1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... floating along in his rickety fishing vessel in the North Atlantic hundreds of miles off the coast and probably as far from any other human being when suddenly he looks up and sees....

    nnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

    this little red plane buzzing by.

    One of two things will happen. Either he'll jump overboard... or he'll finally give up the sauce.

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
  24. Re:Well, talk about an increase in drug traffic... by fabiolrs · · Score: 2

    The stealth bomber is not invisible, its radar cross section is much smaller than conventional airplanes, many newer radars are able to track it. Its smaller radar signature only makes enemy radars not so efective in terms of range...

    --
    Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
    http://www.morroida.com.br
  25. Re:RC plane =? assassination weapon by quick_dry_3 · · Score: 2
    You could equip the RC plane with a bomb and a webcam and one of them wireless network cards and fly it into a political leader from across the Atlantic all while sitting at your computer in your underwear...

    wireless network you say? you must have better Pringles technology than available round these parts

  26. Re:Newfoundland time by RobinH · · Score: 2

    Meaning half an hour later, right?

    Meaning 1.5 hours later than Eastern time, or a half hour later than Atlantic time.

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
  27. Entrepenueral opportunities by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now we can lay our own trans-alantic cable.

    Looks good on paper at least.

  28. Clifden by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 2

    I'm staking out a place in a bog near Clifden.

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
  29. Why does fog matter? by Elvis+Maximus · · Score: 2

    The site says the launch was delayed due to fog. If the thing is running on GPS-assisted autopilot, what difference does fog make?

    --

    -
    Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.

  30. Re:What next? by zCyl · · Score: 2

    Ha. I won't be impressed until they can do it with a paper airplane

    Can I use a motorboat and a bit of string?

  31. A real terrorist weapon this isn't by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 2

    The model described in the article isn't any kind of real terrorist threat due to its limited payload capacity and slow speed.

    However, that doesn't mean that creating a low cost cruise missile isn't beyond the means of even the smallest terror group or nation.

    Check out The Low Cost Cruise Missile for a pointer to where the real danger lies.

  32. GPS? by standards · · Score: 2

    So does anyone have any info on the GPS componentry of their craft? I'm interested in different but related projects, but I have a tough time learning about the GPS modules that are available...