Slashdot Mirror
Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost?
hardDiamond asks: "I'm going to get engaged. I know my 4 C's. I know I'm going to get screwed by the jeweller, but that's okay: after all, a diamond engagement ring is a time-honoured tradition... NOT. Having checked out the goods, looked for the flaws, I found the biggest one of all. Diamond engagement rings are the creation of a well orchestrated advertising campaign for most of the last century - according to this article.
Would you buy one for the love of your life? I know my girlfriend would love a diamond, but ethically I have my doubts. Diseased-miners, child slave labour, cartel inflated prices... and as if that wasn't enough, diamonds have no resale value. Naddah. Zilch. They'll sell you the shit, but damn it, they're not taking it back at any price. So what have my fellow slashdotters done with regards to engagement rings? What's a good substitute for diamonds? My girlfriend understands my thoughts regarding diamonds, but deep down, I'm sure she would like a diamond. Even a small one." I've never even thought about questioning such a time honored tradition, but now I'm curious. Have any of you looked at the issues surrounding diamonds and found them wanting? What alternatives have you found and were they acceptable?
After researching this a bit, one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence. Such diamonds, for want of a better term, have been named "conflict diamonds". For those of you interested in following up on this subject, here are a few more links:
Fatal TransactionsFor those of you who have a subscription to Science News, the cover story, this month, deals with this issue as well.
Conflict Diamonds: Sanctions and War
The Campaign to Eliminate Conflict Diamonds
The Kimberly Process, which will attempt to track diamonds to their origin. This is to begin in November.
Slashdot readers?
Girlfriends?
Marriage?
This has to be some sort of hoax. Is it April already?
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
Build up a geek website with a couple of friends, make it popular and propose on the front page a couple of years later.
Trollem mirabilem hanc subnotationis exigiutas non caperet
Great, i fully expect the bush administration to put out new commercials linking diamond sales to terrorism and urging all "true" americans to stay clear of them. I mean they did the same thing with pot without one proven link between marijuana sales and terrorist organizations.
--aiee
My fiancee was totally cool with the idea of another kind of stone, or with a fake. Show your girl some pictures of the kids from the mines, you'd be surprised how receptive she gets.
Get a GIANT phoney and she can still brag/lie to her family/friends and secretly feel morally superior.
For all those doubting whether diamonds are worth it, please see this picture. You will learn to appreciate diamonds :-)
S.t.e.v.e.
Alright. Let's review. You post on Slashdot. You have a girl you are going to marry.
You are a nerd with a girlfriend.
Most of the people here rarely talk to girls (no, its not flamebait; im one of them), let alone marry them! Buy her a diamond ring you idiot!
Value, worth, social pressures, and traditions are all arbitrary. Decide if you're someone who likes to go along or rebel or somewhere in between, then get on with your life.
XML causes global warming.
No, but he can have is finger in her for 3 weeks in Hawaii 70 years from now.
>>they have a great texture to them
The texturing isn't that great. Whoever made them should go back and redo the bump mapping. And a little anisotropy wouldn't hurt.
It's not worth taking the risk.
Yeah, right.
That serves your interests as well. Might as well have her walk on you with the best shoes available.
But basically, unless you pass the following test, I suspect that deep down you are looking for an excuse to be cheap:
(snip snip)
If you answer 'yes' to any one of the following questions, you must also be cheap:
- I like to pay extraordinary amounts of money for products of inferior quality.
- I enjoy pissing away thousands of dollars on a piece of jewelry that is kept artificially overvalued.
- I love being at the mercy of international jewel cartels.
- I like getting ripped off.
Awwwwwwwwww. That's so.......so........fucking stupid.
What the last guy said. When I got engaged, my girlfriend and I spent some time talking about what kind of ring to get. We didn't obsess over it, but it was up for some pretty honest discussion.
:-)
I am a very practical person who sees such things as being symbols pointing to something much greater. Whenever I see those "A diamond is forever" commercials, I think "So 6 months' salary saved towards a house!"
A tatoo on your ass, now THAT lasts forever!
As it turned out, she felt the same way, so we took a route that was appropriate.
I think it is helpful to just establish what her hopes are related to this(real hopes, not what she thinks she should say) and what your real reservations are...then explore options that make both of you honestly happy. If this is an important issue to both of you, then compromising becomes a lose-lose situation and will pop up to bite one of you two later. Indeed, compromise is only acceptable if one of you turns out not to care all *that* much about the issue....a helpful tip to remember.
My girlfriend and I once fought about an issue for 18 months before finding a win-win solution.....mainly because if one of us compromised it would have haunted us later.
As far as win-win possibilities go, antique jewelry is a wonderful way to go. All of the jewelry will have a history and story related to it, and may cost less than "new" jewelry.
Also perhaps visiting a jeweler to discuss other gemstones would be helpful. My mother (a collector) showed me "Mystic Pink Topaz" the other day. It's an absolutely beautiful rose colored gem that seems to yank the light right out of the air and sparkle with blues, greens, purples, etc.
Good luck with the ring, the relationship, etc etc etc.
"A tatoo on your ass, now THAT lasts forever! :-)
As it turned out, she felt the same way, so we took a route that was appropriate."
Now, I have to ask... Did you really intend to write those two sentences together?
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
Aren't they produced deep within the crust of the earth at unimaginable pressures or something like that?
Sound like a good description of the marriage proposal process.
Table-ized A.I.
One Dozen Roses: us$35.
One Diamond Ring: us$949.99.
Knowing You're A Pussy Whipped Man-Whore: Priceless.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
I completely agree. Who wants to date a girl to whom whether or not you're willing to waste a significant chunk of your net worth to prove it is a deal-breaker? Am I the only one who has noticed that the emperor has no clothes on?
;)
So... Ms. casualgeorge... what are you doing this weekend?
PUBLIC SPLIT ON WHETHER BUSH IS A DIVIDER -CNN scrolling banner, 10/15/2004
... and cheap. :)
Learn to Play Go
This is a fantastic suggestion! Show her you care, and buy North American diamonds. Besides, I suspect anyone delving too deeply into De Beers' business will find themselves walked off a short pier.
Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
"Honey, some loveless geek on Slashdot told me not to get you a diamond. So, really, it's not my fault, ok?"
"BTW, I re-partioned your PC, got rid of Windows, and set you up with free BSD and a Tesla coil."
"Honey? Honey?"
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
If you think diamonds are forever, you're going to love the new One Ring model at Sauron's Jewelers (with 1 convenient locataion in the Barad-dur shopping mall, located right in the shadow of Mount Doom).
This ring is guaranteed to last for all eternity, and will grant countless powers as well as being a pledge of your ever lasting and eternal love. When my grandfather first forged this ring in ages past, he made it to last, and it has certainly stood the test of time. What better way of telling that special someone "This is going to last forever?"
Supplies are EXTREMELY limited, so hurry on in, or email DarkLord@mordor.org for this and other wonderful items.
This wasn't written by me; I copied it off of the somethingawful.com forums.
... because your brother just got engaged, and that ring he gave her was pretty impressive... ... and I'm worried that anything I could give you wouldn't measure up to that. ... and you're 33 now, that's $6000 divided by 47 years of marriage. That's like, $130 a year. You spend more than that on video games.
Actual conversation between me and my girlfriend:
Me: If we get engaged, don't expect much in the way of a ring. I'm pretty broke.
Her: It's OK. I don't need a very expensive ring.
Me [uneasy at the qualifier "very"]:
Her: Yes, it was beautiful! I'd love to have a ring like that!
Me:
Her: Don't be silly. I wouldn't want more than you could afford.
Me: Define "afford."
Her: Two months' salary is normal.
Me [calculating]: Um... wow. That would be, like, $4000. That's a lot.
Her: Gross, dear, not net. It would be more like $6000.
Me: Who makes up these rules?
Her: That's just the custom, honey.
Me: You know that's just a marketing gimmick started by the diamond cartels around the turn of the century, don't you?
Her: Silly. I don't need an expensive ring.
Me: The conversation up to this point notwithstanding?
Her: Two months' salary is normal. It's not expensive.
Me: So if you found, say, $6000 worth of computer hardware on our joint credit card, I could say "Hey, that's not expensive; it's just what computers cost!"
Her: That's different. That would be just for you. The ring is for both of us.
Me: So I get to wear this ring part of the time?
Her: Silly. The ring shows everyone how much you love me.
Me: And what shows everyone how much you love me?
Her: The ring.
Me: Do you see a certain asymmetry in this arrangement?
Her: You should be proud that everyone sees me wearing your ring. It tells the world how much you value me.
Me: Approximately $6000 worth, apparently. Does this mean that rich men value their wives more than poor men?
Her: No. It's two months' salary for everyone.
Me: Ah, so wives are priced on a sliding scale, then, like low-income housing?
Her: I wouldn't put it that way.
Me: How would you put it?
Her: A little money is a small price to pay for something that lasts forever.
Me: You lifted that directly from a jewelery commercial.
Her: That doesn't make it untrue.
Me: Touché.
Her: Look, if you live to be 80...
Me: I don't like that "if."
Her [ignoring me]:
Me: I'm alarmed at how quickly you arrived at that number.
Her [ignoring me]: $130 a year isn't so much for my love, is it?
Me: Well, it's a good deal cheaper than escort services.... OW! OW! Quit hitting; I'm driving here!
Her: You get a lot more from this relationship than sex.
Me: Yeah, the contusions make it all worthwhile.
Her: Baby.
Me: Y'know, this actually works out better for you if I die early. Your yearly value increases inversely to the length of my life. If I only live to 50....
Her: I'm tired of talking about this.
Me: That's because you're losing.
Her: I'm not losing. We're not competing. You told me you couldn't afford an expensive ring, and I said that was OK.
Me: Ah, so it's the "affording" part that's irrelevant.
Her: Stop being so silly. I've bought jewelry on credit before; it's no big deal.
Me: That's the solution!
Her: What is?
Me: You buy the ring.
Her: That's not how it works, honey.
Me: If people look at the ring to see how much I love you, wouldn't it make sense to get the most expensive ring available? You've got better credit than me, so....
Her: But the point is for you to buy it, so people can see how much you value me.
Me: How are people going to know who bought it? Do the salespeople engrave the credit card holder's name on the band?
Her: I'll know.
Me: Well, yes, that's a given.
Her: I'll know you didn't want to pay for my ring.
Me: I thought we'd established that.
Her: I'm tired of talking about this. Forget it.
Me: I'm trying to understand, really. We're supposed to have a token of our love, right?
Her: Whatever. Right.
Me: This token is something you would want anyway, a piece of jewelry.
Her: Honey...
Me: Bear with me. The token is sized for you, presumably styled the way I think you'd like it...
Her: Actually, I get to pick it out.
Me: Even better for my purposes. So the token is styled just for you, sized so only you can wear it. You keep it with you always. Do we both own it?
Her: No, the bride owns the ring always.
Me: OK. So you get a ring that may or may not be expensive, depending on your definition, which is your exclusive property to do with as you please. I get to pay for it. Remember what I said about asymmetry?
Her: So you want a ring?
Me: No. To be symmetrical, it would have to be something I want. A laptop, for instance.
Her: You want an engagement laptop?
Me: That's just an example.
Her: That's not parallel. Computers depreciate; good jewelry doesn't.
Me: Good point. I guess there's no such thing as a ring upgrade.
Her: Actually, they make these things called "sleeves" which you buy for major anniversaries....
Me: Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell!
You'd talk to more women! :)
Best goddamn midget porn in town! [fuckporn.net]
Who the fuck do these bitches think they are?
Well, apparently, they're the materialistic small-minded bitches who would marry someone for the financial security they could provide. OF COURSE they're going to want something ridiculously expensive and pointless - it establishes the way things are to go from that point on.
Sorry, I do know you were joking...
This sig is part of your complete breakfast.
I bought my wife a diamond. She was a fiend, what could I do? Then 6 months later when I bough my computer I tried to hide the fact that it cost more than the diamond...
;)
Didn't want to fuel that whole "more time with the computer" thing you know
According to a friend's chemistry professor, diamonds are a rip-off anyway. The crystaline structure of the carbon atoms in diamonds isn't the most stable form of carbon. Apparently, diamonds aren't really "forever," they're only for a few billion years. Now graphite, on the other hand, now that's forever! (Or at least a lot closer!)
So buy her some pencil lead, and maybe one of those cool, high-dollar mechanical pencils to go with it!
(Disclaimer: I assume no responsibility for any bodily harm that may result from following this advice. I, myself, am happily married, and if you tell my wife I said this, I'll deny it.)
One of my biology TAs put it the best. "Here. Have a plant's reproductive organs... on a stick." I mean, what better way of showing why you really love her?
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Yikes.....
That's what I get for trying to insert a witty reamark after writing the entire message.
Just for the record, we skipped the tatoo route
Still shaking head in disbelief,
Troy
Um, dude, this century started last year.
What, Canada is not yet part of the axis of evil? Bush must have had a slow day.
I agree: a lot more people are made a lot more miserable by the diamond trade than by C++. The latter is a subtle, merciful killer; it eschews violence. Freshmen simply lose the will to live about four weeks into CS101, when they learn the true meaning of inheritance and friendship: "you aren't going to get a lot of money from your parents, but you will probably get the same self-destructive behavior they had, which will probably be triggered by someone covering his ass after someone you thought was your friend tripped you up by playing with your member".
["Only friends can play with your member(s)" heard from Andy Kinley at RHIT, IIRC. Hi, Andy!]
Dude, a diamond ring that glows in the dark under blacklight? That's BETTER than a slave mine diamond, who are they kidding? :-)
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
ok I am gay myself. If I marry you would you buy this as an engagement present. :-)
I might even turn straight for this.
"Um, honey? I read on /. that diamonds are evil, so I got you a Radeon 9700 instead." Yeah, that will go over really well...
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
I gave my wife a pearl necklace. Now, every night she wants a pearl necklace. It gets tiring.
Thank god, in my country diamond rings are for rappers and drug dealers in second class Hollywood Movies.
If I brought my gf a diamond ring she'd throw it at my face and tell me to find some lame bimbo who's impressed by "horteradas" (Anyone know the translation for that??? - hint: it's Spanish....)
Marriage may be a union, but it doesn't mean you have to make up laws like a union. =)
-Tom