Slashdot Mirror
Diamonds - Are They Really Worth the Cost?
hardDiamond asks: "I'm going to get engaged. I know my 4 C's. I know I'm going to get screwed by the jeweller, but that's okay: after all, a diamond engagement ring is a time-honoured tradition... NOT. Having checked out the goods, looked for the flaws, I found the biggest one of all. Diamond engagement rings are the creation of a well orchestrated advertising campaign for most of the last century - according to this article.
Would you buy one for the love of your life? I know my girlfriend would love a diamond, but ethically I have my doubts. Diseased-miners, child slave labour, cartel inflated prices... and as if that wasn't enough, diamonds have no resale value. Naddah. Zilch. They'll sell you the shit, but damn it, they're not taking it back at any price. So what have my fellow slashdotters done with regards to engagement rings? What's a good substitute for diamonds? My girlfriend understands my thoughts regarding diamonds, but deep down, I'm sure she would like a diamond. Even a small one." I've never even thought about questioning such a time honored tradition, but now I'm curious. Have any of you looked at the issues surrounding diamonds and found them wanting? What alternatives have you found and were they acceptable?
After researching this a bit, one of the key facts to surface is that 2-4.5% of diamond sales will go to finance terrorism or forms of violence. Such diamonds, for want of a better term, have been named "conflict diamonds". For those of you interested in following up on this subject, here are a few more links:
Fatal TransactionsFor those of you who have a subscription to Science News, the cover story, this month, deals with this issue as well.
Conflict Diamonds: Sanctions and War
The Campaign to Eliminate Conflict Diamonds
The Kimberly Process, which will attempt to track diamonds to their origin. This is to begin in November.
Opals are always a nice stone and do have a decent resale value. Of course they're rather hard to find in the US.
They're really expensive, but are guaranteed not to have the ethical overhead of others. Plus, they have a cool little polar bear laser-etched into the side (very tiny, you have to use a loupe to see it).
They're called Polar Bear Diamonds.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
The saphire was the traditional engagement ring until DeBeers and Hollywood sold the world on "A diamond is a girl's best friend" in the 30's. I bought my wife a big saphire with two small, high quality diamonds on the side. It is way nicer than a diamond ring, my wife loves it. I didn't save any money, but at least the saphire cartel doesn't rule the world like DeBeers does.
If you look around, there are many women who wear the saphires. Many women like my wife's ring. It is more unique and I didn't feel like I got screwed for the very reasons you describe in your post.
About manufactured diamonds and their history.
currently Gemesis is America's primary manufacturer. They are building a $25m factory for making better/ different colored diamonds. Currently they can make yellow ones, though the show showed clear, and fanciful colored ones (in testing it seems).
They are "real" diamonds, pretty much seeded carbon crystal. Any gemologist can likely tell you they are real diamond, albeit manufactured. AFAIK the cost is a little higher, if not compriable for now.
A diamond ring for an engagement was a tradition started by Hollywood movies. It was briefly mentioned in the Nova TV show Diamond Deception
A good account of the state of the art two years ago can be found in the transcript of a NOVA show on diamond synthesis: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2703diamo nd.html
I've had to purchase these things too many times and here's my advice:
If you don't have cash to burn -
1. Flaws are great if they can be covered by the prongs.
2. Crappy color looks better in a gold setting.
3. Choose size AND high flouresants (sp) over everything except naked eye flaws.
At the end of the day these things are friggin' worthless bits of highly compressed coal. So its the reactions of your wife's shallow and empty friends where you get your real money's worth... nothing pisses then off, and makes you look better than size and sparkle. Everything else is bullshit unless you've got cash to burn. In that case here's different advice.... Go for quality over size. If the word, economy or whatever goes to pot a quality stone will get you safe passage.
http://canadian-diamonds.theshoppe.com/canadian_di amond_mining.htm
to quote: Canadian diamonds treasured by the worlds diamond experts. Sought after for their incredible beauty and brilliance. Mined in accordance to the highest ethical standards.
I believe everything I read on the Internet, of course, but hey, worth a look - especially if you want to REALLY surprise her with the kneeling and the asking and the whatnot.
I am a leaf on the wind
Better than diamonds or opals are emeralds.
Emeralds are actually more rare than diamonds, and so are worth more.
"All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening."
- Alexandar Woolcot
Premarital sex was not invented in the 1960s, and has in fact been around ever since just before the first marriage. Of course, back in the good old days, a good girl would never have sex before wedlock. However, some were willing to bend the rules once they were engaged. So, men quickly discovered that you could ask a woman to marry you, have sex with her, and then break off the engagement.
Up until 1935, this was considered an actionable tort in 47 of the 48 states. A woman who was deceived in this way could sue for the value of her lost virginity and subsequent difficulty in acquiring a husband. State legislatures passed laws against these suits in the 1930s and 1940s.
So, after this ability was removed, women needed a new way to ensure that a man proposing marriage really meant it. It became social custom that a man asking for marriage would post a performance bond equivalent to about twice his monthly salary. This bond would be forfeitable upon his breaking off of the engagement, but returnable if she broke off the engagement. This 'bond' was implemented as a diamond ring, because it was an easy way to, er, 'crystalize' two months of his salary in an easy-to-handle package.
In essence, the engagement ring is a private reimplementation of a canceled government policy.
Bottom line, pre-owned jewelry is the easiest way to afford something you can't get at a mall store, and you won't get fleeced. :)
That new computer that set you back $2000 is going to be a boat anchor in a couple of years. How long do you expect your relationship to last? What are you willing to spend on it? (Because those "wife" and "motherhood" upgrades are going to make that ring look like chump change.)
Buying diamonds: Local mall shops are good for getting a feel for what the 4-C's mean. But for god's sake, don't buy from them. First of all, what they have is crap. Second, it's extremely overpriced crap. (Well above the "list" price.)
In most major cities there are some major diamond vendors. In Pittsburgh, they're downtown in the Clark building. They are worth checking out. These guys will sell diamonds at the "list" price.
Now check out BOMI. Call them -- Their website is best used for the phone numbers. Bomi sells for under the "list" price. Their merchandise is top notch. And they do mail-order. (Sprite, if you are reading this, this is why your stone was 50% larger and a grade better in quality than you thought I could afford.)
Oh, and in case you've overlooked the obvious: Get it insured! Talk to the folks who are selling your homeowners insurance, renters insurance, or at worse, car insurance, and see about adding to your policy.
There are other, less oppressive, countries to obtain diamonds from.
Where?
Canada.
What? Canada?
There are only Igloos and Eskimos (Inuit) up there, right?
Not so, there are also Polar Bears.
http://www.siriusdiamonds.com/home.htm
If you're Canadian, buy Canadian.
If you're American, buy North American.
Just a suggestion.
Yes, and where such things are found, we try for better solutions. In your main example, yes, gas sales fund terrorist activities. There are groups of people that are trying to get us off of the oil dependency, ranging from lowered energy requirements and alternative energy sources, for political, economic, and environmental reasons.
/. story--is this couple up to the task or not.
I don't like it much anymore, but I drive a gas powered car. I used to drive without much thought whether I had to go there or consilidating trips. Then, I grew up, learned a bit more, and decided, for economic, political, and environmental reasons, I shouldn't drive so much. So I walk, bike ride. Plan trips when possible to shorten mileage.
I own a smaller car now too. When I can afford it, I'll go for a hybrid. And after the hybrid, I'll look forward to H2 powered cars maybe.
Not everyone is up to the task though, and I mean that in a nonjudgmental way. That's part of the dilemna in the
According to the sources I've read and my old geology prof, who was a very cool guy, a good sapphire is much rarer than even the rarest diamond. I always preferred the colour anyway. :)
Liz
it's a myth. unfortuantely i am on my way out the door and don't have the time to find the proof, but it's true. i think it's something like 12 or 14 percent of our oil comes from that region. granted that's still a lot of oil, but nothing like the 90% that joe 6-pack american seems to think.
out of those countries we get oil from i do not know how many may be considered shady today. the enemy seems to change every few years. whatever your political views are, the only real constant pal the United States seems to have over there is Isreal and they are lacking the oil reserves that would keep the USA stocked happy. it seems like everyone else manages to upset us one time or another (or they were also too friendly with the USSR and therefore no longer our friend) argh.
ride a bike, it solves more problems than you would ever know.
I may blow some /. karma by saying this, but that Atlantic article is one of the best pieces I've seen linked from /. in quite a while. It has nothing to do with tech or software and can't really be called news for nerds, but it's an eye-opener about how businesses manipulate public perception out there in the real world. If you skipped the article and went straight to the comments like I did, it's worth going back to read the article.
My wife has chosen Moissanite due to a very bad experience with a local mall-jeweler. The certified diamond she bought was enclosed with a "certificate" that, upon checking with IGI was found to be fraudulent. She got her money back only after some stressful discussions with the store. We then saw an article in the Washington Post discussing a "new diamond simulate" by Charles and Colvard. It has all of the same properties as a diamond but is actually more brilliant. The best news is that it is being sold at a fraction of the cost of a good diamond. Since it looks as good and lasts as long, and you understand the political problems with diamonds, including the artificially elevated prices, then Moissanite is a great alternative. Check out some tech details at www.4facets.com/news2000.htm
Barry
www.4facets.com/news2000.htm
did not work when I tried it.
Works well for my parents. And my girlfriend's parents. And the parents of my best friends.
,social and financial terms, when you'll be able to screen the child and transplant foreign, "better" genetic material to the offsprings ?
...
What worked well for them may very probably NOT work well for us:
you're ignoring a major factor here: the pill.
I believe the pill is the major reason for the sexual revolutions and backlashes of the second half of last century. Seperating procreation from sex was a major destabilizer for monogamy (that, and the the women joining the work-force, thus giving them options they didn't have before).
My point is: the human race is still in the after-effects of the seperation of sex from procreation, and in this respect, we ARE different from our parents.
Our descendants may go even further down this road: even today you see lesbian couples using genetic material from sperm-banks, what will the notion of marriage mean, in genetic
I guess they'll live in ingteresting times
Working for necessity's mother.
Not true. Entire businesses like this one make their living buying used diamonds. (Disclaimer: This is a commercial site. I know the owner. I have no financial stake in the business, except that I designed their web site.)
Bullock also has a short guide explaining why diamonds have low resale value.
This post does SO much a better job saying what I wish I said. I have to remember the crowd I'm talking to.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Most jewelers will rip you off and charge you mand thousands for rings worth only hundreds... LA and New York have jewelry districts where competition drives down prices to close to wholesale and you can save more than your plane ticket cost. Make it a special trip with your sweetie...
I pointed out that an engagement ring on a man was unusual, but would be neat. Then she reminded me that traditional Claddagh rings serve for both engagement and wedding rings.
The traditional claddagh design has a heart, held by two hands, with a crown on top of the heart. I think this is also called the "Royal Claddagh". There is also a "Finnian Claddagh" that lacks the crown, for obvious reasons.
Claddagh rings date from 17th century Ireland. Worn on the right hand, heart facing out, the ring indicates that the wearer is available (I offer my heart to you). Worn on right hand with the heart facing inwards indicates that you are engaged. The Claddagh as a wedding ring is worn on the left hand with the heart facing inwards.
Both my lady and I have some Irish blood, and we like quaint old customs. [This was well before the renewed interest in things Celtic.]
The most common, and probably most traditional claddagh rings are all metal. We chose to have rings custom-made with gems in them.
My wife's ring is white gold; the heart is a ruby as red as blood. My ring is yellow gold, with an emerald as green as the forest.
Diamonds? Pah! Everybody has those.
Uh, that's not really the case these days. Sure diamonds are still a bit inflated due to their cultural status (which was and is largely manufactured by coordinated advertising and marketing efforts), but the article being referenced here was written in 1982. That's twenty years ago. In 1980, the price of a 1 carat diamond was over $60,000 (in 1980 dollars)! By 82, that rock had already shed 2/3 of its value. These days, a 1 carat diamond fetches around $5-6000 retail (if it's a really high-quality gem), but realistically you can get a 1-carat I/I1 clarity solitare ring on Ebay for well under $1000. Beautiful SI clarity in the .5 carat range, with additional smaller rocks as side-mounts are in that affordable price-range as well. If you adjust for inflation, the market depreciation for these rocks is truly staggering (something like a 97-98% loss).
The diamond market crash is old news. It's done. The fact is, even given the strong output of mining, there is still a lot of labor involved in producing diamond jewelry. It's estimated that you have to move 250 tons of diamond-bearing earth to retrieve 1 carat of polished, gem-quality rock. Then the stone has to be polished, cut, polished, examined, appraised, stored, marketed, shipped, stored again, appraised again, marketed again and sold at retail. That results in quite a bit of markup, but there is a wide enough demand for diamond jewelry to fuel this business and allow these companies to make a profit, and while it's quite a tidy sum, it's nothing like the rediculous markups they used to achieve.
Furthermore, contrary to your initial argument, the resale value does drop significantly when you walk out of the store with it. It always has. You've never been able to recapture the retail value of diamond jewelry by reselling it. Most jewelery retailers won't even talk to you about buying back used diamonds, leaving you to choose between exchanges which will offer slightly less than wholesale to you, pawn shops which won't even offer that, or newer secondary markets, like ebay, where you can probably capture something slightly higher than wholesale for it.