Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Sinks Teeth Into New Orleans
An anonymous reader writes: "The New Orleans Times-Picayune is reporting that Mayor Nagin is considering letting Microsoft upgrade the city's computers free of charge. The catch? New Orleans eventually has to buy the software and Microsoft gets to use the city as a marketing model to push this on the rest of the country." According to the article, a similar system Microsoft developed for Oklahoma "is expected to expand into accident reporting, video arraignment and automated pawn-shop-ticket tracking." So don't worry about privacy -- it's all taken care of. Open bidding's taken care of too: "Because these services are considered a gift, the city won't have to publicly bid the project." Sounds like dirty pool to me.
Does the entire city now have to read and agree to microsoft's EULA?
.noitacidem deen uoy siht daer nac uoy fI
They're offering them a good deal, they're not suing them. For the non-initiated, it's called business.
From the Article:
New Orleans police will be using a system Microsoft developed for the state of Oklahoma. Dubbed the Offender Data Information System, the system can link dozens of law enforcement agencies, jails and court systems.
From the Blues Brothers:
Elwood:"I bet these cops got SCMODS."
Jake:"SCMODS?"
Elwood:"State, County, Municiple Offender Data System."
Jake:"Shit!"
It shuts out network OS competition, and it shuts out hundreds of companies that develop applications for cities and governments.
A lot of cities and their respective police departments have a "no gift" policy. In other words, an officer or government official cannot accept a gift - as it could be seen as a bribe.
No. Wait. It *is* a bribe.
"Here, take this software for free so you will be stuck in my neverending upgrade cycle. You'll have to pay me later, then pay me again when you go to upgrade."
Something stinks here..
= Grow a brain...
The article says they eventually have to buy software, as in down the road they'll pay for software but not the stuff that is being given to them. I'm from New Orleans, and frankly unless something like this happened, there is no way our city's information infrastructure was going to be overhauled. In the article, it said it was saving us $100 million. Except that New Orleans doesn't have $100 million to spend.
They're not just talking about giving away unlimited copies of Windows XP, they're talking about modernizing and developing systems that antiquated or non-existant. City gov't could go download all the copies of Linux they like, but they still would have to pay people to build the databases and various systems our city lacks. I recently got a traffic ticket down here. On the ticket it tells you can pay on the web or by phone. Guess what? Those systems simply don't exist! Our city's IT capabilities are in shambles.
Sorry fellas, but this is GOOD thing for the city of New Orleans.
MikeAtIF*ckStuffedAnimalsDotCom
Here in Peru, the response from M$ to the Open Source proposal was not only the easily rebutted FUD letter. There was also a 'donation' of computers and software to the schools. All free, of course... for 5 years. after that, we'll have to pay for the priviledge of being locked-in with the propietary formats.
And the same line: "Since it's a donation, there was no public bidding", and it will make impossible to apply the OpenSource law (if it would be approved).
How can we escape? having no money is no longer a defense from being robbed
-Kz-
According to the Slashdot story... "New Orleans eventually has to buy the software..."
Yet, the article says... Eventually, he added, the city will have to purchase software from the company...
The article would suggest that future software will not be free. Not that the current software will, in the future, have to be purchased. A minor detail perhaps, but it does explain why the software is a gift.
It would be like a gun maker giving pistols to a police department a substantial savings, but making them purchase their own magazines, springs, etc.
I personally don't see a problem with what Microsoft is doing.
If there's a contract involved.
Microsoft is stipulating that they buy in the future, according to the article. There's an obvious transfer of value between parties.
If I were in the position to bid in one of those cities, believe me, I would sue.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
How can it be a "gift" if it must be purchased? Is Arthur Anderson involved in the deal somehow?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
If they're indeed trying to get around the open bidding requirement (I assume such exists), then it's called dirty business.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
New Orleans News
City may get free Microsoft makeover
Typo: the "m" is makeover should read "t".
We appologize for the error.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
As much as it might seem shady, the reality here is that Microsoft is just acting like a business -- trying to find ways to get around spending processes to get their products into new areas. If they were passing up the opportunities like this, I (were I a stockholder) would be screaming for the head of the sales dept.
The ones who ought to be ashamed here are the New Orleans officals who are trying to sidestep the processes set up to discourage, well, this sort of thing. They may be following the letter of the law, but they're blatently violating the spirit.
It's up to the voters to punish them.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
New Orleans is known for booze, sex and debauchery.
:)
You think they would have chosen BSD.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Basically, Nagin got elected on a platform of cleaning up the corruption and he'd sign a contract with the Devil himself to get rid of the current scumbags. Wait, he actually did just do that. Well, I for one can't blame him under the circumstances.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Yeah.
Why the hell don't Red Hat's marketing department get off their a*ses and make a similar offer EVERY TIME Microsoft tries something like this.
Red Hat are a commercial entity, and obviously want to make money. But why don't they offer government organisations like this all the free software they could want, for no money EVER, and just charge them for supporting it?
One must wonder just what the Mayor would say to a free gift of Redhat with NO contract to buy in the future? Someone living in New Orleans may want to offer such a gift.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
This is almost certainly Bad Politican Math. Who came up with the number? Whom did they consult? I think it is shady, if not illegal, that
Did he get those numbers from Microsoft? Perhaps there was an ulterior motive in them?
We don't really know if this is the best solution, because
I'm reminded of the KIA commercial where one guy is bragging about buying the most expensive car in America and KIA guy comments, "Well, mine is the least expensive... I guess I saved $493,000" at which Obligatory Babe's eyes light up in awe of his fortune.
Whenever anyone advertises using the line "Such a good deal, you can't afford not to buy", you should take a pass.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Actually, it's a conceptual loophole. Gifts to individual civil servants are banned. Gifts to the agency as a whole usually are not -- it's considered the act of a public benefactor. Hah!
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Big computer companies have been using this tactic for decades.
.
You want to enter a marketplace? First problem is you haven't got a reference site so noone will take you seriously.
So you buy yourself a reference site and shower them with goodies to make sure the software, hardware and services all hang together. Now you can go to other related businesses with a credible offer.
For this to work, the vendor has to have deep enough pockets to make the showcase site a success, and time enough to do the job properly. Secondly the marketplace has to be broad enough to replicate the showcase to a goodly number of real paying customers.
Nothing wrong here, quite the reverse, it's good business to invest time and effort on satisfying customer demand.
This sort of strategy is popular in the public sector, with regional governments and the like. They all have broadly similar requirements, and are strapped for cash, so that someone will likely be prepared to take the risk of being the trial site. I have also seen it work in smaller banks, the ones who can't really afford to develop new solutions in house.
The upside for the vendor is that you get a pretty much captive market: the customer can't usually afford to pay for any alternative system. This means that you can sell them related services at a premium rate year after year.
The downside is that the margins are hit initially, after all you had to buy the business. Further, if the target marketplace is not actually as homogeneous as you thought, then there can be expensive customisation required for new clients. They won't take the offering just as a package so the perceived risk and cost goes up, meaning that your expensive reference site is not quite so compelling.
The downside for the customer comes when the vendor's pockets aren't so deep, and they are in a hurry for profit.
There are quite a few spins on this strategy, the worst of which is "break the customer's leg and then sell them a splint". In other words, you get 6 months into the project before revealing that there are significant "special" problems that can be blamed on the customer. These "problems" are outside the scope of the original agreement and the customer has to write some cheques to cover it. 6 months later, new unexpected problems crop up . . .
Well MS has the deep pockets for this kind of work, but they are in a hurry. Tough call to decide whether it's good business or not.
Modernizing and devolpment are great, but just like Linux, New Orleans is going to need people to support Windows. Even at a smaller college here in Minnesota, it can take a lot of man hours to get a new system up and running (whether its wireless, a new mail server, or just updating 300 new computers)
Getting ahead now is fine, but what is Microsft going to say 5 years from now when its time to upgrade again? Do you really think they'll allow the city to keep its copies of Windows XP when the special license agreement says they must upgrade or else?
How about maintaining systems that have known major security flaws? Someone finding out you got a traffic ticket might not be a big deal, but what about the fact you got arrested 12 years ago, or how much money you make... Not that Linux is totally secure, but theres a lot easier ways of fixing problems once they're found.
If you need a system customized for running a traffic ticket managment system, then Linux can be customized to do so. Do you need a way to keep track of city salaries, Linux can do a better job of managing a database of names and income levels.
If the city doesn't have money to buy software, how are they going to afford the actual hardware to run XP on? Its great for gaming if you can have that 2GHz P4, but for older systems its just going to hold things back.
the "marketing model to push this on the rest of the country" part of the contract has kicked in, you mean?
/. then.
Bet New Orleans gets burned on this deal sometime in the next 5 years;) see ya back at
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
If this was Redhat doing this it would be praised.
No, he's right it did say some.
From the article:
"Eventually, he added, the city will have to purchase software from the company, but he said it would be a "minuscule" expense."
It never said "THE" software; the slashdot story is misleading... what a surprise.
Aw, fuck it. Let's go bowling. - The Big Lebowski
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index&cid
One of the local TV stations puts up content on a Yahoo channel, link above. Lots of reading about the Nagin administration's raiding of city hall and all that fun stuff that's been going on here lately as part of the cleanup campaign.
I'm sure Nagin is getting death threats from many different sources, he's arrested half of city hall by now.
<flame><offtopic>
The TP (Times Picayune) is a fine example of the how to not use technology for content. All the newspapers in the area use local "new media" companies to publish their internet content for them. They do a piss poor job. </offtopic></flame>
...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
..the aversion to a public bidding process.
If the mayor had some amount of intelligence, he could say, "Look, we gotta have a proper bidding process here, but feel free to offer your stuff on the same terms for the bid."
This way, he'd avoid bribery allegations and it would also open things up for an even better offer to come through. Also, if Microsoft won (which I would actually expect, especially if they're offering migration support as well as software) they could then point to the city and say "See? Our software got chosen over supposedly 'free' software. Our software is therefore better, and that's why we charge."
Easy opportunity for a double win for MS (they get their test city and get it in an open bid) and a double win for the mayor. (He's squeaky clean, plus gets his free software)
Is there some flaw in the logic that MS and the mayor are seeing here that I've missed, or are they just going blind?
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
How about if ALL CITIES are made to run on an entirely Microsoft infrastructure?
Too much power. I'm sorry. Executive/legislature/judiciary is enough. We don't need to go executive/legislature/judiciary/Microsoft.
Microsoft needs to expand beyond business, because there's not that much farther they can go WITHIN business. On the one hand BSA work, on the other hand this. Microsoft are getting into government and this is the most obvious move in the world.
The problem is that there was no bid process. Clearly Microsoft gains in this, or they wouldn't do it. Shouldn't others be able to show how their solution would be even better for the city long-term, and the potential problems with the existing solution?
This is the entire reason that government entities have bid processes - to make sure that noone is slimeballing their way into making the city pay out large sums of money. In this case, the payment is delayed, but the lock-in is evident.
Engineering and the Ultimate
If you need a system customized for running a traffic ticket managment system, then Linux can be customized to do so. Do you need a way to keep track of city salaries, Linux can do a better job of managing a database of names and income levels.
Oh, really?
What evidence do you have of this?
How many cities do you know of that use Linux to run their traffic lights, manage their employee information, or do any of the other things you mention?
Getting ahead now is fine, but what is Microsft going to say 5 years from now when its time to upgrade again? Do you really think they'll allow the city to keep its copies of Windows XP when the special license agreement says they must upgrade or else?
I have never seen such an agreement on any piece of software (Microsoft included) I have owned. Can you explain the terms of this agreement further, or are you just FUD-mongering?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"