Dreamcast Broadband Adapters

JayBonci writes "Dust off the old Dreamcast. If you're one of the many like myself who still enjoy their Dreamcast or are aspiring DC hackers, then you may want to pay attention to a quiet announcement by CSI, the Japanese manufacturer of the Dreamcast Broadband Adapter (flaky, but understandable translation provided by the fish). If you have no idea what the BBA is, the official page here. If CSI gets 1000 pre-orders for the unit, they will be willing to make another production run. Keep in mind that these units are very useful for the Dreamcast Linux efforts and NetBSD/Dreamcast, and that Japanese units work on US systems."

Comments

Slowly into that good night

[ObviousGuy]

It's hard to believe that the Dreamcast, with it's better graphics handling and ease of programming, ever lost out to the PS2.

I guess if you've got the resources of Sony, you can pretty much screw anyone you like.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[commodoresloat]

It's hard to believe that the Dreamcast, with it's better graphics handling and ease of programming, ever lost out to the PS2.

I guess if you've got the resources of Sony, you can pretty much screw anyone you like.

It's hard to believe that the Betamax, with its better sound and picture quality, ever lost out to the VHS.

I guess if you've got the resources of JVC, you can pretty much screw anyone you like.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[Anonymous Coward]

You're so clever! You took the original post and switched a few words... You're my hero, because you're so smart.

Really. I love you!

Re:Slowly into that good night

[commodoresloat]

It was a joke. I suppose I was making a point - that a superior technology losing in the marketplace is not always the result of some nefarious conspiracy of control. But it struck me as interesting that the same comment made about another technology sounded so ridiculous.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[packeteer]

oh it brings a tear to my eye to hear you say that... i agree with you very much and you pointed out just a few of the many features the dreamcast has... it has TWICE as much video ram as the ps2 while the ps2 has twice as FAST video ram which means that programmers must waste their time coding swapping functions and worrying about management...

also the 128 bit (xbox has nothing on the dreamcast here with its 32 bit p3) 200 mhz risc processor just kicks ass... its easy to compile linux for risc so practically any software can be burned onto a cdr and the dreamcast can read it...

i am very glad and i will be pre-ordering possibly 2 or 3 of these... i wanted to hack my dc more but $200 for the nic was too much...

Re:Slowly into that good night

[evilviper]

Does this old betamax example bug the hell out of anyone else? The betamax's problem was both being less open than the VCR, and the shorter tapes. Betamax wasn't an all out better option, SO STOP USING IT AS A DAMN EXAMPLE. It just weakens your point

Re:Slowly into that good night

[shepd]

>It's hard to believe that the Betamax, with its better sound and picture quality, ever lost out to the VHS.

Oh no, not this one again.

Picture quality -- about 10% better (barely) in units from the same era. A modern $70 VCR still beats the pants off it, though. BetaMax had only an extra 10 lines of resolution, and a very slightly less noisy picture going for it at the time. Not to mention this is largely due to running the tape faster, which happens to be their (alternate) reason for dying. You have to switch tapes during just about anything if you want the quality to beat VHS. Hardly anything to write to slashdot about... :-)

Sound quality -- AFAIK, while VHS started out mono, a full HiFi Stereo VHS VCR gives a similar fidelity to a Sony Betamax VCR, although without actually hearing a unit it is hard to tell (not that VHS HiFi sounds bad -- its right inbetween a decent Metal casette and a good CD).

Besides, Sony eats their young. And therefore its their fault Beta died. And a good thing, too.

It's just one in a very long list of failures of Sony in the US, along with 8mm, Memory Sticks, and MD. Sony just can't seem to figure out what makes us Americans buy stuff, and probably never will as long as they keep it so very proprietary.

Here's a little more on that format war, for those interested.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[huntz0r]

I remember reading that one of the big underground factors was the porn industry - they decided they'd sell VHS movies and not Betamax.
So if you've got the resources of the porn industry, you can pretty much screw anyone you like.

Well... that's kinda what the porn industry is about, no? ;)

Re:Slowly into that good night

[garcia]

it was the controller. Just like the XBox. Nuff said.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[GutBomb]

It's just one in a very long list of failures of Sony in the US, along with ... MD...

Sony just can't seem to figure out what makes us Americans buy stuff

How american of you. MD is wildly popular in europe, and there are just as many europeans as americans, if not more. 80 million alone in germany. Almost everyone I know has an MD player in thier stereo, and another portable.

Americans are not the only people in the world that buy consumer electronics outside of Japan.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[phaze3000]

Not only that, but there were actually some fun games that looked good too.

As an owner of both a PS2 and a Dreamcast (amongst quite a few other consoles) I was quite puzzled by this comment. The PS2 release games were pretty piss-poor to be honest (with the possible exception of Tekken Tag if fighting games are your thing, but IMO it doesn't come close to the almighty Soul Calibur). Even now, I'd say the Dreamcast has way more top quality titles:

PS2:

• GT3
• GTA3
• Ico
• Tekken Tag
• Rez

Dreamcast:

• Soul Calibur
• Jet Set Radio
• Virtua Tennis
• Ferrari F355 Challenge
• Shenmue
• Rez

With the exception of GTA3, you could argue that for every PS2 game there's another in the same genre on the Dreamcast that's better. Of course, the DC didn't have Sony's marketing might, or the selling point that it would play DVDs too...

Re:Slowly into that good night

[rodgerd]

They didn't decide, it was decided for them - Sony didn't want family unfriendly filth on Beta, so the story goes, and the adults who bought videos went for VHS.

Mum and Dad may not want little Johnny watching "Anal Annie's Greatest Hits", but they wanted to be able to watch it themselves.

It's interesting to view the online gaming plans for the X-Box and PS2 in that light - Sony are making it lasseiz-faire, Microsoft are promising control, safety and decency.

Re:Slowly into that good night

[GutBomb]

i am actuyally living in sweden, however, I have been to germany and seen many md players in shops, lots of people on the trains i was riding on had them, and all of my friends there had them too. I mentioned germany because they are the most populated country in europe. Now, as for sweden I have noticed just as many md players as in germany. sure it's not a ratio of 1:1 with cd players, but it definitely is with cassettes and mp3 players, which it is positioned against, not CDs. I always think it is funny wathcing american movies that take place in the not-to-distant future and they all use MDs as data storage :) but anyway, i am niether german, nor swedish, nor even european. I am an american travelling europe.

wow

[nyquist_theorem]

Ok - this is a *big* deal. Anyone who's surfed Ebay looking for a $150USD DC BBA knows that they're horrifically overvalued for what they are - a bit of plastic and an Realtek (8139?) ethernet chip. I wonder what other companies might think of re-tooling up their production lines in light of the fact that their discontinued products sellon the used market for well over the original MSRP? (Roland TB-303, anyone?)

Re:wow

[RobertFisher]

As with any item sold on a free market, the price is set by the supply, relative to the demand. It doesn't matter what the actual item is. A casual inspection of the Antique Roadshow on PBS will give you some indication of this phenomenon to the extreme. Collectors are willing to purchase items (Pez dispensers, teddy bears, 1950s toys) which the bulk of the population might view as near-worthless novelty items for excessive sums of cash. As always, the more limited the number, the higher the price.

In this case, the supply is extremely limited, because one could only purchase a DC BBA for a short period of time, directly from Sega's website. As I recall, they were not even available from Amazon or other retailers. Shortly thereafer, the DC got yanked, and all the BBAs were yanked from production as well. At the same time, while only a very small number of games were ever produced to support broadband, the limited quantity makes them very highly prized items. (ie, We BBA owners love to own yer non-BBA asses in Unreal Tournament. heh.)

Bob

Hmm...

[rakslice]

I wonder what we could expect to pay for one of these if the order goes through...

I've been sort of kicking myself for not buying one at a reasonable price before the supply died out. But now I might have my chance.

Useful?

[evilviper]

I can't understand the obsesion with making a gaming machine run Linux/BSD, with or without a network card. Just follow the money trail.

You may have gotten your DC for $99, without a harddrive, NIC, et al.

Meanwhile, you can get a 900MHz PC, with 10GB hard drive, NIC, Modem, etc for $300.

Call me crazy, but I'd stick with the one that I can get replacement parts for.

I can understand the draw of the i-opener, and the tuxphone, but I don't see any particular draw to the D.C.

Re:Useful?

[analog_line]

You can get replacement parts for your Dreamcast...the easiest way being, get yourself a spare Dreamcast (they're what, $40?). Also, the most common hardware failure can be fixed with a simple resistor, a soldering iron, and the time needed to take apart and put it back together.

Re:Useful?

[rodgerd]

The urge to play. No different to when I picked up an old Mac SE/30 with an Asante card and got Linux running on it. It's fun, for certain values of fun.

Of course, I've long since thrown out most of the crap old systems I have, since they take up space. Couldn't be arsed in the end. Obviously the people wanting NetBSD on their Dreamcast haven't gotten bored yet.

Re:Useful?

[evilviper]

The DC didn't make that possible, it's just one machine you can use to make it happen.

For the price of the DC + Broadband adapter, you could have a system just slightly bigger than MIT's matchbox server, with multiple NICs, serial ports, etc.

Besides, the DC doesn't have any writeable storage, where you could save your traffic. Additionally, you will easilly get spotted if you are sending traffic from the DC over the WAN. With a REAL computer, you could plug in a wireless adapter, and have it broadcast the interesting data at certains times of the day when you'd be there to pick it up.

That's just a start. There's plenty of clever things to be done with a real computer that a DC can't touch.

Re:Useful?

[kesuki]

True, DreamCast didn't make it possible. As the movie 'hackers' demonstrates the first tool for network intrusion is to get the people inside the building to provide you with everything you need to hack in from the outside. And I realize that the DC has limitations, However, I'd like to point out that software designed to emulate a modem, and send it out over the DC's sound would allow you to hook an eternal radio and use a radio to dialup the Dreamcast. Besides, hacking is at least partially about the coolness factor. How cool is it to be able to say you hacked someone with a dreamcast? Sure, hacking them with a PDA is kinda cool, but doesn't require as much hardcore hacking, like writing a software dialup emulator that is tolerant to possible RF interfearance.
It takes a lot more ingenuity to get a DreamCast set up as an effective network intrusion device.
Any script kiddie can drop off a CD-r labled 'hardcore porn' with an autorun to install a pre-configured back orifice while showing a slideshow of usenet porn. Real hacking takes skill and ingenuity.

Re:DC, an ideal solution for the UK

[perlyking]

Perhaps it would have been prudent to say "we arent taxed that much more". I believe we are actually better off than other European countries though a comparison would depend on wages as well.

The company producing this has missed out on one thing, they should secretly make these and sell them at inflated prices on eBay!

Am I the only one

[xercist]

who is subtly annoyed when they arbitrarily rename things to make them sound less complex to idiot^Waverage users?

For example, what they sell here is a "Network Adaptor", or "Ethernet Controller" or perhaps a "NIC" - all terms everyone has accepted and uses to describe the adaptor that allows a machine to connect to an ethernet network. But let's just make up a new name, and call it a "broadband adaptor", because most people will then asociate it with their (cable|dsl) connections, even though the item in question has absolutely nothing to do with broadband. It is, in fact, the exact opposite - baseband.

I know, I know, I'm making a big deal over a small thing, but I just had to get it out, and I feel better now that I have. If you agree, modding me up and you'll feel better too. If you disagree, modding me up will show how you can see both sides of the issue :)

Re:Am I the only one

[autechre]

Probably because the manufacturer is a business and likes to sell things. As you pointed out, most of their target audience (home gamers) will better be able to identify the function of an item called "Broadband Adaptor" than one called "NIC". Sorry if they don't feel that people should learn basic networking terms before giving them money :)

Remember, this wasn't named for the benefit of a bunch of geeks wanting to run Linux on the Dreamcast, it was named when the Dreamcast was still an unabandoned (by the manufacturer) gaming platform. In fact, my brother and myselves (who'll get _that_ reference?) would use this adaptor to play PSO (hopefully, this is still possible with the Dreamcast).

(IIRC, DSL/Cable is actually narrowband or wideband according to the Bell Atlantic services chart, which I think is what you're referencing).

Re:Am I the only one

[toast0]

i believe the network adapter only does 10baseT, and that the broadband adapter does 10/100

Details?

[Megane]

How do we make the reservations? How much do we have to pay? What about international orders?

Re:How Much?

[echucker]

I'd bet it'd be safe to say it'd be more than the NIC that's already in your PC right now. It seems that, as a rule, retro projects like this cost more than current technology with worse performance.

Order form.

[13Echo]

The web translation services aren't being too effective. Has anyone found the order form, so that we may pre-order these things? I'm not having any luck, and I really want two of these things.

Re:Order form.

[VargrX]

has anyone found the order form, so that we may pre-order these things?

never could read japanese, but here's the link to the pre-order page.

Re:Order form.

[13Echo]

That is what I figured. I saw it earlier. But I am not having any luck with the translation services.

Re:Order form.

[13Echo]

I've sent them a polite email to the company about the possibility of an English order form. I am having trouble getting this one to work. Regardless, import companies will jump all over this one. I have no doubts that we will see plenty of these things again. :)

Re:Order form.

[SkewlD00d]

That's the *order* page, I think. They are just "thinking" about taking pre-orders. Geez, why can't they just translate it to frickin' english.

Quick translation

[BJH]

OK, here's a quick translation of the page:

====
Thank you for visiting our site.
As has been reported earlier the Broadband Adapter (BBA) is no longer being manufactured, with the remaining stock sold out in July and August. However, we have received many requests for manufacturing to be restarted.
As a result, we have decided to accept "countdown" preordering in order to do a new manufacturing run, with the run to be produced only if reservations reach 1000 by the cutoff date.
Please follow the instructions below to preorder an adapter.
In the event that manufacture does go ahead, it will take approximately four months from that point in time until we can deliver the adapter to you. Please take this into account when ordering.

Start of preorder acceptance: 2002/8/26 (Mon) 13:00-
Cutoff date: 2002/9/9 (Mon) 13:00
Number of BBAs to be produced: 1000
Delivery date (planned): A notice will be placed on this site as it is finalized around the end of December 2002.
====

In other words, you won't be able to put your preorder in until after 1pm Monday (Japan Standard Time).

Re:Can only order in Japan?

[GutBomb]

i imagine the price is going to go down a bit on ebay if these things actually get produced

Re:Where did this guy disappear, anyway?

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Vaporware. Pure Vaporware.

Re:How Much?

[bonzoesc]

In other words, it's going to be more than $5, right?

Re:Where did this guy disappear, anyway?

[ImaLamer]

Fucking troll, they already made them once!

Get to know those terms you use so easily.

screwing == making better games?

[peter_gzowski]

I don't know about the relative graphics handling capabilities or programming ease (the latter I've heard has been getting better for PS2), but I do see the end result:

My PS2 has better games, plays DVDs, and has the best damn controller design in the history of gaming.

I know the Dreamcast is a whole lot cheaper, and hackable, and if I want to learn some embedded linux stuff, I'll go pick one up sometime. This is good news for linux on console enthusiasts, and maybe the diehard PSO players still left, but I'm more excited about the broadband adaptor for PS2 that's coming out soon, and seeing what impact it has on console gaming, and the linux for PS2 initiatives.

I'm not saying the Dreamcast didn't have great games. Sega has brilliant games, and I'm thankful that they're now developing games for PS2. But you can't deny that there are fantastic games on PS2 that outclass any other console's efforts. Also, last time I checked, there wasn't anybody developing new games for Dreamcast that would exploit this new hardware.

Re:screwing == making better games?

[peter_gzowski]

Kept only 10% of games you purchased? Sounds like you need to start reading some magazine reviews, dude, or find a rental store.

There is a high crap-to-quality ratio, but I think this is going to happen on any dominant console. Nintendo used to be the king of crap (I don't know the state of affairs now, I don't know anyone with a Gamecube).

For those of us who don't have the ~$850 (US) to buy the 4 consoles, we have to roll the dice on which console will dominate.

Dominant console => more games developed & more high profile developers making exclusive-console games.
More games developed => better chance of more good games (in spite of poorer crap-to-quality ratio).

For curiosity, what are the 4 games you kept? I only own three games (MGS2, THPS3, and GT3), but I can think of a couple more I'd like to own (GTA3, FFX).

Order Form, Poorly Translated

[ebmedia]

http://babelfish.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3 A%2F%2Fwww3.csi-msp.com%2Fbbsite%2Fweb%2Fnote%2For derRule.jsp%3Ftype%3Dbba&lp=ja_en&tt=url

Homebrew

[The Pi-Guy]

cadcdev.allustion.net

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcdev/

b00b Dreamcast Research (no, NOT pr0n. sorry.)

DCEmulation.

ConsoleVision.

Hanger Eleven

Have fun!
--j0shua

Linux on Dreamcast

[00_NOP]

This project is here. I would really encourage any would be or newbie Linux kernel hacker to join the effort because:

There are good people here but none of them are Linus or Alan Cox, so no fear factor.

We don't need wizards (though they are welcome!), We just need competent people, as there are still a lot of basic device drivers to be written.

To keep this OT I'd add that without a BBA it's a PITA sometimes - but you can use the much cheaper coders' cable to connect your DC to a PC and download kernels etc.

Broadband, baseband, grunge band

[fm6]

Yeah, the mutation of Broadband from "using a broad frequency band" to "supplies a lot of bandwidth" is irritating. But face it, words change. Especially when they express technical distinctions most people don't know or care about.

You can preorder from NCSX!

[orbital3]

I know that pretty much noone is going to see this now, but for those who are still reading this, you can preorder your DC BBA through NCSX, a reputable import gaming retailer, for only $49, less than the original BBA cost from Sega. No, I don't work for them, but it's a great way for us who can't read Japanese to get in on this deal. I just hope it hits 1000 orders...