Slashdot Mirror
"L33T" Speak Invades Schools
Masem writes "NYTimes reports on how common chat room/IM shortcuts (such as 'u' for you, 'r' for are, etc) are creeping into the classroom and homework assignments from those teenage kids that spend a significant amount of time in chat programs. This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap, and to try to prevent further abuse of the language, have begun penalizing students for using the net slang. Students sometimes don't even realize they use the chat room shorthand until it's pointed out to them, because that method of chatting has become second nature to them."
If they can't differentiate between being online and writing on paper for school on which they'll be graded on, what hope is there left for the world?
...but that doesn't make it proper English. Save the 'l33t speek for cyberspace, learn how to speak the language properly in the classroom.
It will help you in aspects of life that have nothing to do with computers (yes, they do exist!)
teachers... have begun penalizing students for using the net slang
Good! More power to them! School assignments should be written in grammatically correct English, using proper spelling. This requirement might be lifted for certain creative writing assignments, but in general, this is what schools should be doing.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
"L33t" speak in all forms is lame, obnoxious, and childish unless used for sarcastic mocking of those who use it. I don't discuss things in depth with anyone who uses it as a primary pattern of writing, and usually consider those that use it to be unintelligent and foolish.
The Internet is the greatest form of human communication ever developed, to cheapen it by using poor language out of a willful choice is just sad.
If anyone talks like that to me offline, I will call them a fucking idiot. To their face.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Phrases like "IMHO" predate these youngsters by decades, but I can't recall ever becoming so confused as to use them in a formal essay. And despite using Unix "talk" for years, I never ended a term paper with "oo" (over and out). Sheesh.
A few low grades will certainly help them remember the difference between chatrooms and book reports!
I hate to sound like I'm trying to protect the "King's English", but chatroom slang became such in an effort to be able to convey ideas through typing at the rate of talking, and it should be kept to chatrooms. The last thing we need is a generation (gee, I'm sounding old at 26) of kids hitting the Universities thinking "ur" is a valid re-contraction of "you're", and "u" can easily replace "you".
I guess I'm too old (at 23), but I find that the abbreviations are pointless. When I send IMs, I often send phrases instead of sentances, but I don't abbreviate words. However, I do abbreviate phrases that have been used as such for over a decade. BRB for "be right back" predates IM, but "u" for you is just silly. It's harder to read, and learning to type would make it immaterial.
Additionally, the traditional abbreviations were for "online phrases." When wat the last time you used "away from keyboard - AFK", "be right back - BRB", "laughing out loud" - LOL, "rolling on the floor laughing - ROTFL", etc., in a real life conversation?
These abbreviations are more reasonable for phrases that would only be used in an online conversation. By that logic, "oic" is an acceptable abbreviation for "oh, I see", given that you only use it to convey an online emotion.
I feel like the best thing would be for teachers to penalize, penalize heavy, and encourage students to STOP using online conventions online as well. If people would write in more reasonable English, communication would be easier.
I find people nitpicking over typos, spelling errors, and grammatical errors strange. However, none of us (unless we are slashdot editors *grin*) should STRIVE to butcher the language.
Better command of the standard language improves communication. Has anyone whose ever held a job or been in an adult relationship ever thought "communication skills are over rated?" Most business and interpersonal problems stem from miscommunications, anything that helps that is a Good Thing.
Alex
This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap
I disagree. My wife has no trouble marking down anyone who uses "U" instead of You or "R" instead of Are. Teachers face no dilemma here; students do.
If you as a student cannot use proper grammar and spelling, then you are transferred to a remedial course. If you are still unable to use proper grammar and spelling, then further testing is completed in order to determine if you have a "learning disability."
If you're lazy and refuse to use anything but your "chat-speak," then you'll fail English and High School... then no more chat room, because the only jobs open to you won't pay enough for you to afford an Internet connection.
I'm far from an expert, but real l33t 5p34k involves the substitution of symbols for letters to form words. Often these substituted symbols are higher ASCII values, though there are many dialiects of "l33t". Using "u" for "You" and r for "are" just seems like laziness, and is in no way 31337.
1'm @m @n 31337 H@X0R.
For examples of the differnt dialects possible, see the Lamerizer.
fail to understand, is that what you write, and how you write it, reflects very strongly upon one's self.
For example, in a 'chat room' for Asheron's Call, where people would meet up when the server was not working, there would be many people using this 'leet speak', asking repeatedly for information. By simply using correct capitalization, punctuation, and spelling, I could often get many of the people there to heed my words as if I was a person of authority. Some went so far as to ask how I became employed at Microsoft - I was just a regular user like them, but my choice to use English correctly made them assume that I was someone who knew what they were talking about.
I try to encourage people to use the best spelling and grammar as they can when online. I just cannot 'respect' someone who can't be bothered to type "are" ('r') or "you" ('u') because they want to save themselves from typing two characters.
Try the above sometime. Use your best grammar and spelling and notice how others react to you.
(NOTE: I don't recommend this during intense-gaming situations.. "Help! I am currently in coordinates N7 being att... Uh oh, they have shot me with the... Aw, crap..")
My sister-in-law is starting her second year at Boston University, and I swear getting emails from her is like getting an email from Prince.
:-)"
"Hey! I got a msg 4u. It's gonna be 2-cool 4evr!!!
I can't decide if that's more annoying than my sister and father, who still, in spite of my best efforts to educate them, haven't figured out the basics of the capslock key, new paragraphs, and punctuation in email.
There should have been no headaches for teachers or hesitation in penalizing the students for using misspellings or "net slang". There is a difference between casual conversation and formal usage of your language, and schoolwork is of the latter category.
Some of us don't even use that kind of slang on the internet. The truth is that it was created by people who either cannot type well or who type lazily. Those of us who understand that effective communication is important realize that typing in complete, correctly spelled, and well formed sentences with correct puncuation gets our ideas across in a more accurate way.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we have no spelling or grammatical errors -- it simply means that we try to communicate our ideas using grammar that is correct. It also creates less confusion for us, because we don't have to remember in what context we're writing and "turn on" or "turn off" our grammar rules.
RP
Not is the teenage/pre-teen world forming bad habits, but there are a lot of people in the world that pretty much learn english in chatrooms, and you better believe they consider this to be perfectly acceptable conversation language.
I suppose, what bothers me the most is that it just looks and feels retarded. I remember thinking back to first grade, when we were all still learning how to spell. Sometimes it took a while for it to kick in that YOU is not spelled U just because they sound the same. Or SUN/SON, etc etc. With first graders, its an acceptable faux pas. To do so intentionally when you clearly know better is at the height of moronic. I understand the need/desire to abbreviate long words sometimes, but u for you, r for our/are and the extra retarded ur for your, just makes NO credible sense.
And while sometimes I'm willing to write off this stuff as the juvenile swill from those "Damn teenagers", when I see people in their 20's+ doing it, it just makes me sick.
Well, sick is perhaps too strong a word. It just makes me feel artifically intellectually superior to them, and I no longer want to spend my time conversing. Of course, there's always the chance that my assumptions are correct... and perhaps that explains it.
Ok, rant done. Moderate as you will.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
How many of you even learned (much less recall ) that ok is not a word, the correct spelling is okay? I'll bet none of those teachers marking down new words like "r" and "u" mark down "ok".
English teachers do not define the language, use defines the language. We only need english teachers because we need a common starting point, but once we have that we need to move byond them and their rules that don't work. "r" and "u" are two very useful reforms of english spelling. I just wish that the rest of the needed reforms would come in my lifetime so I can spell correctly.
I despise replacements for the words "you" and "are" because they're only 3 letters long. RTFM, wb and RABUF are one thing, but 'u' for 'you'? how lazy can you get?!
I get pissy with people for doing it in IRC. if I do become a teacher, I will fail them, and have them(after so many warnings) write an essay on the importance of proper spelling.
As for my own spelling, well... that's just because I suck at it. get over it.
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It isn't laziness, but the lack of any real typing skills
It has to be this... on IRC and in games I can easily out-type anyone using "short hand" while I type full words.
Once upon a time I was a very fast typist (>100 wpm), but it's gone down to probably around 70 wpm nowadays. Sure, that's still fast, but any touch typist should be able to type faster than I can if they aren't typing full words.
Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age
It should probably be taught shortly after writing skills. Being able to type is just as important as being able to write nowadays. I know some people will blanch at that, but take the average office worker and compare how much they have to type into a computer versus how much they have to write down on a piece of paper.
I just hope that schools have gotten out of the dark ages regarding touch typing. I recall going to a school competition around 1990. I entered into the typing competition since I knew I was a fast and accurate typist. I don't think I got more than a couple sentences done though -- I was definitely not expecting to have to deal with an electric typewriter that didn't even process line breaks properly. I spent more time being amazed at how backwards the competition was than I did actually typing.
I completely agree. I took tons of AP/IB classes in preparation for college, but, arguably, the most useful class at my prep school was Typing 101. It helped me churn out papers in college, and helps me code without looking at the keys now. Not to mention the fact that one can never reach a "zen programming" state without touch-typing.
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Now mabie these newbie lamers can learn to upgrade their language.lib. When speaking not to your "l337 friends, that'll k1ll jue f0r ./makking --fun +./of them" 1 can only hope their /usr/manfile will kill all -9 what ever homework.obj is reported to their inbox.java for syntax errors, no include private lang.lib.swing.poser.elite statement nor did it include stdio*.all. I know i've had the misfortune of seeing a normally good sentence rot to the core due to such statments as: "My friends and 1 r go1ing to the beech 2 day." It was my manner to write: "WTF did you just say? Where's your MAN file on lang.english.common ?!"
Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of the English language, and I think that it is a good idea to limit severe language deviations, particularly in a formal academic setting. I'm not going to endorse the substitution of 'r' and 'u' for 'are' and 'you', but simply make a point of the roll such things play in the evolution of a language.
... and it's never good news! Furthermore, it's always about primary and secondary school kids.
I'm an American, and I'm studying linguistics (amongst other things) in New Zealand. It's an interesting place to study linguistics, because New Zealand is one of the very few places (if not the only place) where there is a fairly complete aural record of the evolution from it's roots in the United Kingdom to it's modern form.
Language is a hard target to pin down. Even in countries that try to limit linguistic migration (such as France) can't slow it down significantly, even in times without huge revolutions in communication. English is one of the fastest changing, and most diverse languages on the planet, and it only takes the space of about two generations for the "proper" high culture forms of the language to change significantly.
A major shift in communication technology makes the changes occur much, much faster. The advent of radio made western urban American English the "proper" form of American English in the span of about five years. National broadcasters go through an enormous amount of training to develop that accent, as do politicians and other public figures. Listen to Clinton's speeches at the beginning and end of his term, or even how George Bush's (much ridiculed) accent has started to change.
It's expected that the Internet will have the same effect on written languages that the radio had on spoken languages. Interestingly enough, it wasn't until the advent of the newspaper that English spelling (both American and British) became more or less standardized across large geographic regions.
Ironically, the first place to hear about a significant change in language is in the editorial / opinion sections of news papers
Anyhow, I suspect that the practice of using 'oic' and 'l8r' in written English will expand dramatically over the next decade. Distasteful? Perhaps. But keep in mind that there's only one standard for language: the de facto standard.
True, many believe it is due to the generation's laziness, but perhaps we could shed a better light on the use of technology (not limited to the l33t speak). Kids these days are creating more efficient ways of doing things, perhaps caused by laziness, but more efficient nonetheless.
Personally, I find that l33t sp33k annoys the crap out of me. It's marginally acceptable in SMS messages, but really doesn't belong anywhere else imo. I don't even use it myself in SMS' because my phone as T9 input and I can type messages in pretty damn quickly. ;) :)
An interesting meme I wanted to throw down is that language is more than just communication, it's a formal way of constructing ideas not only for communication to others, but also in our own minds; Much in the way that mathematics has it's own language for the formulation and transmission of concepts.
If common English starts to lose it's formal structure and we descend into some kind of Taxilinga, I will be worried that the ability to formalise and construct logical thought patterns will be lost to some people (I guess it probably already is lost to people who say 'like' and 'know what I'z sayin' 4 times a sentence
I'm hanging on to Queen's English until the day I die either way
Chris "Ng" Jones
cmsj@tenshu.net
www.tenshu.net
The long and short is that kids today are too easily learning things before the education system can get to them. There isn't a typing class until high school in most areas. Hell, I see many kids around seven that type 30+ wpm. They learn to read online via chat rooms, websites, and other methods before they are assigned Dick and Jane or Pug. Then, the intelligent children are asked to slow down so those without computers can catch up without feeling embarassment. This is sad, and it is why many Asian and European countries continually kick the US' ass in youth aptitude.
Let the kids that excel do just that. While I think "net speak" should be counted as incorrect English for papers submitted, the knowledge the kid posesses to use the chat rooms, computer, etc., should be commended.
Click here or here.
1) Using numbers instead of letters is not a time saving technique. It's complicated and current keyboards make it a 'stretch'. (Those 3,4,5 and 7 keys are waaay off the 'home' row!) Indeed, 'leet' speak is used specifically to set people apart and stand one's turf in an age where being something apart from the establishment is really important. Though, it's so bloody juvenile! It's akin to spray painting walls with your 'tag' and by whatever a tattoo or piercing once denoted before such things became just another dipshit lemming affectation. (Hint: When more than 5% of the population adopt a trend, it slips from 'cool' to 'pathetic' really fast. Might as well wear a fucking Nike swish at this point. --Too bad those tattoos are permanent, eh?) Anyway, 'Leet' speak is about conveying attitude, and means nothing beyond that. Most of it will pass same as all that cute jargon from the fifties, daddio, --and the 1910's, what what?
In any case, I don't think anybody uses 'leet' speak for real anymore anyway. It's turned into a square-ball's old fogey conversation topic, (yes, I'm talking to you). All the original users have moved right the fuck on.
2) Sure, language is whatever written or spoken sequence is good for getting ideas across. So 'U' instead of 'You' is fine. It works. We all get it, so get over it. However, those who use such simplifications exclusively are doing themselves a disservice because. .
3) POWER is the invisible factor here.
Twit-child who honestly doesn't know how to spell 'You', or who doesn't know when or why to capitalize, or who simply doesn't know how to construct words and sentences according to classic spelling and grammatical rules, is quite simply not going to get the respect s/he needs from the professional world in order to gain power in the higher rankings of society.
The fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who, upon receiving any correspondence littered with 'new & improved' spellings, are going to judge the sender ignorant, lazy and kinda slow.
The way things stand today, by knowing how to command written language with power and agility, one will ALWAYS have a much more successful time in dealing with banks, landlords, schools, government and businesses, -and all their fellow humans in any kind of written forum. Despite the logic behind new language validity, the impulse when one sees 'newspeak' is to think, "Fuck you, Loser." --And while you may want that on occassion, (there is power in everything), it's retarded not to be able to switch styles at a moment's notice. Why limit yourself?
So learn your ABC's kids. If not, chances are somebody will do worse than hurt you, (which they'll certainly try to do as well!). --They'll laugh at you with hate while you sink.
Lacking the facility to read and write properly is a one-way ticket to lower-class slavery.
Fantastic Lad
Back when I was 13 (about 8 years ago), I was coming onto the scene of instant message and chat room chatting. I remember how much it would piss me off when I saw people substituting numbers and letters for complet words and strings of words. I would ask them why they did that, and usually they said, "it gets the point across qwicker." Ok, how much quicker is it to type "you" than "u"... to the experienced typist, it's negligable. But obviously, these kids spend hours and hours hovering above the keyboard, but still type with one or two fingers, so for them, yes, it may be faster. So, a possible partial solution for this, would be to actually teach these kids how to type!
I believe that students should be taught a standarized form of English in the classroom. It's simply the best way to ensure effective communication with a wide range of people(assuming they too have learned this standard). That said, I think that the methods and methodologies of American educators need serious rethinking.
I wonder if anyone reading Slashdot remembers the snafu over "Ebonics" from a number of years ago. Sometime in the 90's a school board in Oakland decided that it might be a good idea to recognize African American English(AAE)as a language spoken by a large percentage of its student body, and to educate teachers on how to effectively communicate with students. The Media(tm) had an uproar over it, and assailed them for trying to teach "Ebonics" as a foreign language. Much like Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders was trying to "teach children Masturbation", but I digress. I don't remember much about the incident as a teen, but I do remember the overbearing attitudes of my white peers and neighbors, which seemed to center around something like
"Why can't those damn black kids speak proper english like us?"
Linguistically speaking, AAE is a structurally and intellectually valid language, featuring complex syntax, pronunciation and grammar rules just like any other. I don't have the time or the resources to go into it, so I'll point you here. The truth of the matter is that the culturally and economically elite have been using standardized language to assert their hegemony over society for years, and the same true in America as it was in the initial triangle between Oxford, Cambridge and London. Students in America are teased, ridiculed and insulted for the use of valid dialects in ordinary speech. If you're a white American reader, chances are spectacular that you grew up speaking standard English in the home. Well, how convenient for you. The real point of an English class is not to get students speaking standard English natively or ordinarily, but simply to afford them the ability to use it when necessary (Higher education, job interviews, etc etc). The Oakland schoolboard's original idea was to make it easier for this to occur; teachers would be able to show comparisons between AAE and standard English, and help students learn what they need to change where and when.
Instead our educators(and much of the slashdot readership)assert their supposed superiority by scoffing at the "idiocy" and "childishness" of non standard language features. So while I'm not going to make any claims that l33t is a full featured language, perhaps teachers should try teaching children what it is, why it exists, and how it differs from standard English. Encourage kids to learn and use a standard dialect for specific skills, but don't simply punish them as though their deliberately trying to pollute the language. Sometimes I think gradeschool needs basic linguistics classes just so kids can learn why their English teachers are being such assholes to them.