"L33T" Speak Invades Schools

Masem writes "NYTimes reports on how common chat room/IM shortcuts (such as 'u' for you, 'r' for are, etc) are creeping into the classroom and homework assignments from those teenage kids that spend a significant amount of time in chat programs. This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap, and to try to prevent further abuse of the language, have begun penalizing students for using the net slang. Students sometimes don't even realize they use the chat room shorthand until it's pointed out to them, because that method of chatting has become second nature to them."

Comments

Kids these days...

[nitefallz]

If they can't differentiate between being online and writing on paper for school on which they'll be graded on, what hope is there left for the world?

Re:Kids these days...

[Corporate Drone]

yeah, yeah, yeah...

same story, different decade...

the world was going to go to hell in a handbasket when:

* kids started using calculators instead of slide rules

* kids started typing homework on PCs with spell checkers

* kids started using the 'net as their research source, rather than the library

really, now. it's an interesting sign of the times, but then again, there have always been kids who've used the vernacular in their writing, whether it be poor grammar, slang, or whatnot.

Re:Kids these days...

[Ctrl-Z]

* kids started using calculators instead of slide rules

* kids started typing homework on PCs with spell checkers

* kids started using the 'net as their research source, rather than the library


All of these things have degraded the efficacy of educating our children. Shouldn't teachers do their best to discourage netspeak in assignments?

Re:Kids these days...

[jpt.d]

I support the use of calculators for complex operations as long as you know how to do it for smaller operations. You should be able to do 40339 * 49392 without a calculator, but it would not be evil to after you already know how to do it.

Spell checkers are not bad if they do not have to rely on them.

Same with the net sources, must be a 'reliable' source.

One thing that wasn't mentioned - contractions weren't allowed at one point, but now they most definately are.

I do not think that netspeak should be allowed in assignments, but like it or not they will probably get into the language just like contractions have.

Re:Kids these days...

[MaxVlast]

"I do not think that netspeak should be allowed in assignments,"

Crap! Does anyone think it should be allowed? It's fine to use if you're constructing vernacular dialog (just like slang, creole, or Portuguese are all appropriate if employed in the proper situations) but if anybody thinks that people should be allowed to say "The @rabs r not evil just 'cause u don't 1ike them" in a social studies assignment, well, I'll just be packing up and moving to my bunker on the island now, thank-you-very-much.

Re:Kids these days...

[Oculus Habent]

The problems come not from the tools themselves, but the misuse.

If a calculator is used in place of learning, instead of in place of unneeded repetition, it harms the education. There were 8th grade students in my Middle School who couldn't multiply on paper because they were provided with calculators, as to not slow down the rest of the class.

If a spell-checker is used to correct the mistakes without the user realizing they are mistakes (this is why AutoCorrect is evil) then the user never learns, never corrects the behaviour. A student may rely on spell check instead of learning to proof-read. "John the ate hamburger alter noon non Sunday whiff Jane." This sentance is full of real words but means nothing.

The Internet as a reasearch tool is both good and bad. If the student has been taught how to identify good sources, then it speeds the research process, and does not hinder the report. If they have not been taught, they will take "Crazy Al's House of Historical Info" word for the "fact" that Paul Revere was a cross-dressing minister. The Internet has no Dewey Decimal system, and students have to be more alert when performing research online.

"L33T" speak, as the article calls it, has no such beneficial effects within the classroom. Shakespeare, Mark Twain, even Plato probably used local vernacular when talking with others and in their writings, but this is lazy short-hand. To compensate for the inability to type quickly, the unwillingness to practive, an impetuous attitude toward learning basic activities such as spelling, and an overall disinterest in anything but the moment, "L33T" is as pathetic a waste of time as in AlTeRnAtE CaPiTaLiZaTiOn. Further more, the failure to recognize the difference between social and structured situations shows a degredation in the quality of our "social graces" for which many fingers have already been pointed, not least at education and parenting.

Some chat typing can be considered onomatopoeic, such as "kewl" and "schweet", where the spelling more accurately describes the pronunciation of the word. This should still not be used outside of social chatting/dialogue, but it is a slightly different facet of the problem.

--
I'm too young to be this jaded.

Re:Kids these days...

[jjohn]

1,992,423,888

Thanks for the challenge. I haven't done long multiplication in years. BTW, KCalc displays the answer as: 1.99242e+09.

Re:Kids these days...

[nettdata]

The problems come not from the tools themselves, but the misuse.

And it's NOT just the kids!

I'm an Oracle DBA/Developer/CTO and am responsible for the hiring/firing of technical staff.

It absolutely amazes me to see the number of people that have become totally reliant on GUIs and other tools for doing DB administration.

Case in point:

I found this one person who seemed to REALLY know her stuff... new all of the correct procedures, concepts, etc. for some pretty advanced Oracle config/admin. I was impressed... enough to call her back for a second interview that was more of a "hands-on" practical.

She sat down at the workstation, I brought up an SSH session to the box, and asked her to tell me what the default ORACLE_SID, ORACLE_HOME, etc. was.

She then proceded to start looking around in the "program groups" on the Windoze START menu, and she seemed to be getting a little uncomfortable. I was kind of confused, and eventually asked her what she was doing. "I'm looking for the Oracle programs," she said. I told her, "Ahhh, there aren't any on this box... it's all installed on the Sun box downstairs... this command line is logged into that box, in the Oracle Dev account". She then asked for the console for the box, so she could at LEAST launch OEM to see what was going on. She also asked what other software we use for our DB admin.

At the end of the day, the bottom line was that she didn't have a CLUE how to use the command line interface, or make the "raw" SQL calls from SQL/PLUS to do her job... she'd only learnt how to do that stuff using about $40k in administrative GUI software. In order for us to get our immediate value out of her, we'd have to provide her with that software.

That was just un-acceptable, from my point of view.

For that matter, most of our DBA's rely on "home-grown" shell scripts that do the work for them, and are major proponents of Oracle bringing back the command line install. (Down with the GUI!)

My policy is that GUIs (like calculators) are a luxury, and not a requirement. In my company, you WILL understand how things work at the most primitive of levels (command line, vi, etc.). Once you understand that, you're more than welcome to use whatever "crutches" (GUIs, etc.) that you want to improve your productivity. But at the end of the day, if you're administrating one of my boxes, and I give you an SSH session to that box, you WILL be able to do every aspect of your job. I don't care if you have to fumble a bit to figure out exactly how to do so, but you WILL be able to get the job done.

That philosophy has saved our asses in a couple of weird situations. :) Let's just say that you've never "admin'd" until you've run sqlplus from an SSH session on a Palm using grafiti! It just feels UN-NATURAL!

Re:Kids these days...

[Chris Burke]

Regarding multiplication: Calculators break, or the batteries die. And I'm the only person I know who carries a calculator with them at all times.

The answer to a person being unable to function without their tools is not to make the tool more pervasive. This goes for calculators and spellcheckers (which don't correct the missuse of 'to' and 'too' -- do you check for this yourself?).

On "IRC speak": I have no problem at all with them using shorthand in appropriate situations. You're taking notes in class? You're talking on AIM or IRC? Fine. Use shorthand. In fact, I recommend that they learn -real- shorthand (you don't think these idiots invented it, do you?), as it provides more comprehensive rules for abbreviation, rather than a small number of replacement words.

The problem is that they were unable to recognize that they were using this shorthand, or when it was inapporpriate to do so. Reports in English class (which shorthand IS NOT) should be in English. Actually, in school the secondary objective of any report (whether in English class or not) is to teach effective writing, and thus should also be in English.

It's like people who use a lot of slang. All of the heavy-slang users I've ever hung out with know it's slang they're using, and can stop when the situation warrants.

Re:Kids these days...

[Chris Burke]

Here's another response:

Learning multiplication is about more than being able to multiply two numbers together by hand. It's about training the mind in logical processes and the manipulation of numbers. Learning how to multiply when you're in 2nd grade is the precursor to algebra in 7th grade, calculus in 12th, and circuit analysis in college. Or whatever (financial trend analysis... anything).

Your think that learning a skill in school is about nothing more than being able to perform that skill, and thus if machines can perform that skill for us, there is no use in teaching it. This is not uncommon thinking, but fataly flawed. There is much to be gained by creating these foundation skills, not just in the performance but in the understanding being able to perform the skill brings.

Re:Kids these days...

[Chris Burke]

That means you are in line with those who say that Eminem just doesn't know how to sing, that Nirvana didn't know how to play their instruments, that Pollock didn't know how to paint, and that computer code can't be self expression.

Sorry, but saying anything negative about any form of behavior performed by the young doesn't equate to thinking Pollock can't paint. It might be nice to feel like you're persecuted by the "old stodgy types", but that doesn't mean you are.

No one cares if they type L33T on IRC (but go ahead and feel like they do!). It's when they do it in the classroom that it becomes wrong. It's when they demonstrate difficulty in typing anything but L33T that people start caring.

Pollock could paint in ways other than that he is famous for. Eminem could probably sing if he tried. Nirvana might have been able to play their instruments fine, but Offspring can't (still).

Stop trying to paint it as persecution -- being unable to write proper English is a problem that I damn well hope the school seeks to address.

Re:Kids these days...

[silentbozo]

L33T speak has always been the province of "wanna-bes" trying to look cool. Nobody who wants to be understood will use it. The lazy contractions "r for are, u for you", have always existed, and will continue to be used for written notes, as well as online.

The fact of the matter is that computers are being used by a greater segment of the population than before, and as a result, online speech is now mirroring the illiteracy present in the general population. That this has become a trend, or even a convention, due to the advantages of typing less, should not be surprising to programmers using commands like "rm -Rf, or ls -lh", especially when learned early on, and especially when proper writing isn't taught.

Poor writing is not endemic to younger students, as I've seen professionals and graduate students lapse into "lazy speak" when using e-mail, with missing punctuation, an absence of capital letters, and a desperate need to run a spellcheck.

Here's a thought though - could it be that lazy-speak is a direct consequence of people not knowing how to touch-type? It's a lot easier to write correctly, when you can type fast enough to proof and revise as you converse.

It might be second nature...

[Lamont]

...but that doesn't make it proper English. Save the 'l33t speek for cyberspace, learn how to speak the language properly in the classroom.

It will help you in aspects of life that have nothing to do with computers (yes, they do exist!)

Re:It might be second nature...

[Chiasmus_]

So we should start replacing words in our dictionaries?

Replacing words in dictionaries is a constant, ongoing process. The word "D'oh!" was completely unknown to the English language five years ago; today it can be found in most major dictionaries.

Spellings, historically, have changed slowly but steadily; it's interesting to read a little Chaucer and wonder just how many steps it took for "soute" to become "sweet".

Meanings tend to change a little faster. For example, there's an early-20th-century piece of literature (whose name escapes me today) that includes the sentence "He fagged his way down the road until he was knocked up." meaning "He walked until very tired." Obviously, connotative meanings of those terms have rendered that sentence completely obselete.

It's an inevitability that text-messaging will make an extremely rapid impact on the English language. It would not surprise me in the slightest if, 150 years from now, the correct spelling of "you" actually is "u".

Re:It might be second nature...

[Katravax]

Shakespeare did not write in Middle English. He wrote in modern English. Many of the words he used are now archaic, but it was modern English.

And to think....

[SuperDuck]

I was wondering why my spell checker was having such a hard time with the absence of punctuation and plethora of acronyms.

When will they come out with M$ w3Rd 31337 ?

Good for teachers

[Amazing Quantum Man]

teachers... have begun penalizing students for using the net slang

Good! More power to them! School assignments should be written in grammatically correct English, using proper spelling. This requirement might be lifted for certain creative writing assignments, but in general, this is what schools should be doing.

Re:Good for teachers

[sql*kitten]

School assignments should be written in grammatically correct English, using proper spelling.

So should Slashdot editorials, but how likely is that?

Re:Good for teachers

[sammy baby]

"Standardizing" slang is meaningless without a subjective judgement as to what kind of slang is "acceptable." Otherwise, your "standard" says that anything goes, and a definition that admits everything isn't particularly useful.

Re:Good for teachers

[foobar104]

Well, actually, no. Languages do evolve, yes, but the purpose of things like schools is to limit that evolution. If a language evolves too quickly, it fractures into dialects that eventually become mutually incomprehensible. Suddenly what were once dialects become completely separate languages sharing only their immediate ancestor. Think French, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese here.

And language serves a far more important purpose than to merely allow us to communicate with each other. Language allows us to communicate with our past. (Okay, it's strictly a one-way communication, but communication nonetheless.) I can go back and read things that were written five hundred years ago because the modern English language hasn't changed too much in that time. But going back much further than that, things get difficult.

Here's a version of the Lord's Prayer published in 1611.

Our father which art in heauen, hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heauen.Giue us this day our daily bread.And forgiue us our debts as we forgiue our debters.And lead us not into temptation, but deliuer us from euill. Amen.

The most notable difference is the use of the letter "u" where we would use "v." Other than that, this passage is totally legible. It's slightly under 400 years old.

Here's the same prayer in Middle English, dated around 1384. (Apologies to anybody whose computer doesn't display the thorn, the eth, or the ae dipthong correctly. If somebody wants to go through there and add HTML entities, be my guest.)

Oure fadir at art in heuenes halwid be i name;i reume or kyngdom come to be. Be i wille don in here as it is doun in heuene.yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.And foryeue to us oure dettis at is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris at is to men at han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.

This version is pretty radically different in spelling some word choice, but it's fundamentally recognizable. But look at the same prayer dated circa 1000.

Fæder ure u e eart on heofonumsi in nama gehalgod tobecume in rice gewure in willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonumurne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us to dægand forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendumand ne gelæd u us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele solice.

Pretty much incomprehensible.

I would say that your typical "1337-speak" version of the Lord's Prayer would resemble the 600-year-old version more than the other two: it would be fundamentally comprehensible, but only after certain letter substitutions are made by the reader. A more exotic rendering using constructions like "sux0r" (although I know "sucks" doesn't appear in the Lord's Prayer; bear with me) would quickly start to resemble the 1000-year-old version.

So there's a good argument to be made that the kind of writing we're talking about here is surprisingly close to becoming another language entirely.

Re:Good for teachers

[Iamthefallen]

Indeed, I recently moved to the US and was surprised that so much has a, shall we say, innovative spelling, Ez(easy), Lite(light), Thru(through), Kar(car), Kare(care), da(the) etc etc are very common mostly everywhere.

The english language is most definitely a living thing, and with several versions of it it's no surprise to me that kids have a hard time with spelling and grammar. There's english as taught in school, english as a less strict spoken language, english used with heavy slang, the bastardized english you see in ads and on billboards etc etc, just how are kids supposed to learn which is acceptable at a given time?

Re:Good for teachers

[AnalogBoy]

Lets see..

0ur F47h3r, wH0 4r7 n h34V3n, h4110w3d b3 7HY n4m3, 7hy k1ngd0m c0m3, 7hy wI11 b d0n3, 0N 34r7h 4s i7 iS iN h34v3n. G1v3 u5 th15 d4y 0ur d4i1y br34d, & f0rg1v3 u5 0ur tr35p45535, 4s w3 f0rg1v3 7h05e wh0 tr35p455 4g41n5t u5.

Granted, im not even remotely versed in lamespeek.. but thats about how it would look.

Re:Good for teachers

[Tackhead]

> 0ur F47h3r, wH0 4r7 n h34V3n, h4110w3d b3 7HY n4m3, 7hy k1ngd0m c0m3, 7hy wI11 b d0n3, 0N 34r7h 4s i7 iS iN h34v3n. G1v3 u5 th15 d4y 0ur d4i1y br34d, & f0rg1v3 u5 0ur tr35p45535, 4s w3 f0rg1v3 7h05e wh0 tr35p455 4g41n5t u5.

Well, that's just a character-substitution. To really translate the language, you'd need to update the older idioms.

(For instance, see how 1384's language "And foryeue to us oure dettis at is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris at is to men at han synned in us" - which my layman's re-reading works like this: "And forgive (to) us our debt that is our sins, as we forgive (to) our debtors that is to men that have sinned in (against) us" - states explicitly the theological notion that sin is debt, whereas this notion had become implicit by 1611's wording.)

So - The Lord's Prayer, theology mostly intact, but rendered in 2002 'leetspeak:

Our Father, who 0wnz heaven, j00 r0ck! May all 0ur base someday be belong to you! May j00 0wn earth just like j00 0wn heaven. Give us this day our warez, mp3z, and pr0n through a phat pipe. And cut us some slack when we act like n00b lamerz, just as we teach n00bz when they act lame on us. Please don't give us root access on some poor d00d'z box when we're too pissed off to think about what's right and wrong, and if you could keep the f3i off our backs, we'd appreciate it. For j00 0wn r00t on all our b0x3n 4ever and ever, 4m3n.

Cop out

[(trb001)]

This is, at best, a cop out. When I was younger, I ran home everyday and got on BBS's. I used kewl, l8r, btw, etc, day in, day out. If these kids can't figure it out or they 'forget' (don't spell checkers catch this stuff?), too bad for them. I feel for the teachers who have to grade 100 papers and mark down for spelling cool with a k, but I would stand behind any teacher who did so.

--trb

It's not just in schools

[floppy ears]

I work for a hedge fund, and I regularly get emails from a Managing Director that say things like "r u sure we should do that". No punctuation, no caps.

A Note From Your Son's Teacher

[th3walrus]

D33r MrZ. butts3x0r
U g0tz a k1d d4t 41n7 d01n h1z w3rK r1t3, b1zn0tch! h3 k33p t4lk1n L1k3 h3 41n7 g0tZ n0 c3ntz! WTF? U = p3n1s 1n U aZZ!

sux0rz 2BU! h0p3 y3r br4t g3tz h1z NUTZ ch0ppa 0ff!

-Mr. Demarcus
History Department

Re:A Note From Your Son's Teacher

[unicron]

I keep flunking cs class for submitting homework like this:

#!/usr/bin/perl
@P=split//,".URRUUxR";@d=split/ /,"\n!oy ,kcaw eb ssalc sihT";sub
p{@p{"r$p","u$p"}=(P,P
);pipe"r$p","u$p";$p++;( $q*=2)+=$f=!fork;map{$P=$P [$f|6&ord$p{$_}];$p{$_}=/$P/i?
$P:close$_}%p}p;p; p;p;p;map$p{$_}=~/[P.]/&&close$_ ,%p;wait
until$?;map/r/&&, %p;print$d[$q]

I can't say this comes as a surprise

[Raul654]

My HS AP English teacher must have been way ahead of the curve. She instituted an automatic -10% penalty for "egregious" use of the english language. And there was no cap at 0% - as she put it, "yes, you can do so badly on a essay that I will take points off of your previous essays." One poor kid in the grade below me lost 40% in a single sentence (there's just something about using 'a' as a verb) - omg is was the funniest thing I ever saw.

Re:I can't say this comes as a surprise

[shepd]

Bah. 40% off for just one sentence?

How about this one: At my HS, we were required to memorize Areopagitica (sp?) by Milton. I didn't. I remembered the last name (Milton). So he took about 5-10% off per missing word. After filling the entire margin with Xs (the guy had a very strong OCD) he gave me my final mark (drumroll): -378%
Beat that!

Re:I can't say this comes as a surprise

[CleverNickName]

My HS AP English teacher...

Whenever the conversation turns to HS English teachers, I think back to 9th grade, and my evil HS English teacher, Mrs. Lee.

She told me at the beginning of the year that I would most likely fail her class, "because you're an actor, Wil, and actors are usually stupid."

I was aghast, because I'd always gotten extremely good grades in English and Creative Writing.

She made good on her word, though. She would often take points off of my papers because of my "style," which she said was "terrible."

It was galling to me that an English teacher could apply her own subjective judgement to something like "style," and use it as an excuse to give me bad grades. I vowed to someday exact my revenge by becoming a successful writer.

Right now, I write for a TV show, my website, and I'm working on two books, both fictional, one semi-autobiographical. When they are published, I will dedicate them to Mrs. Lee.

Re:I can't say this comes as a surprise

[CleverNickName]

You're right...but at 14, I was quite lame...Usenet can confirm this. =]

In job applications too.

[MonkeyMagic]

A friend of mine, Rayner, who works at a University in England has also received a job application from an undergraduate that contained 'L33T' speak (well, Mobile Phone abbreviations). Think about it, this person had already GOT TO UNIVERSITY!

Needless to say he told them to rewrite it (after getting a copy).

Bart Simpson

[Hard_Code]

chalkboard:

LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word ...

Break out the yard sticks

[RQuinn]

If there was ever a reason for corporal punishment in schools, 1337 speak would be it.

Could someone post the article here?

[PunchMonkey]

Could someone please post the article here on Slashdot? I keep trying to read it on the NY Times website, but my eyes are continually drawn towards "Eve Brecker". And she's WHAT??? Only 15!?!??! Oh lord.....

Re:Could someone post the article here?

[Triv]

heh. THink you got it bad? She goes to my old highschool. :)

TRiv

Re:Could someone post the article here?

[Mr Guy]

I'd just like to rewrite the caption under her picture. I mean really, which captures the spirit of the peice more:

INGRAINED - Eve Brecker, 15, of Montclair, N.J., uses instant-messaging shorthand unconsciously in essays.

Or my version:

STUPID - Eve Brecker, 15, of Montclair, N.J., is a fucking idiot. Although she chats to strange men late at night, she can't be bothered to remember to use spell check.

Fail them -all-.

[TellarHK]

"L33t" speak in all forms is lame, obnoxious, and childish unless used for sarcastic mocking of those who use it. I don't discuss things in depth with anyone who uses it as a primary pattern of writing, and usually consider those that use it to be unintelligent and foolish.

The Internet is the greatest form of human communication ever developed, to cheapen it by using poor language out of a willful choice is just sad.

If anyone talks like that to me offline, I will call them a fucking idiot. To their face.

But what will the /actual/ 1337 speakers do?

[Denor]

You know, the ones who play FPSes and are constantly yelling at each other! If they're going to stay 1337, they need to keep talking differently than others. One day, I'm going to log onto a quake server and see this:

EliteFellow: Ah-ha! My aiming skills are unmatched. I have such prowess it is as though I own you.

TricksterMan: Not so! Network latency has inhibited my natural reflexes!

EliteFellow: You deserved your comeuppance, you have been jealously guarding the Quadruple Damage for some time now without moving elsewhere!

I think that would scare me more than leetspeak, really.

Re:But what will the /actual/ 1337 speakers do?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least do it right:

Lanthorn: Fear and cower before my peerless accuracy, and precision, betwixt which you fell, a corpse, at my feet.

Nest: Ai! The decided lack of random access memory on this server acts like a fetter upon my facile grace. Niether you nor your comrades-in-arms, shall besmirch my gleaming armor with foul bullets this time.

Lanthorn: Cur! It is not your place to foul the air with your odious exhalations. You were poised stationary over the Quadruple Damage item, as poacher who uses bait lurks in the blind. I however on manuveur outflanked you and dispensed a rocket into your postierior.

Slang is not english.

[Brigadier]

It cracks me up to think there are people who believe that just because something is birthed of the internet it is devine. Be it music piracy, netslang, software piracy. I remember when I was an IRC junky I had to re-learn how to spell when it came back to the real world. Not to sound like an old geezer but people need to speak plain english, or whatever language you may speak. For those quick to point out my mispellings kiss my a** i'm a recovering undernetoholic.

Grade appropriately!

[Boone^]

A few low grades will certainly help them remember the difference between chatrooms and book reports!

I hate to sound like I'm trying to protect the "King's English", but chatroom slang became such in an effort to be able to convey ideas through typing at the rate of talking, and it should be kept to chatrooms. The last thing we need is a generation (gee, I'm sounding old at 26) of kids hitting the Universities thinking "ur" is a valid re-contraction of "you're", and "u" can easily replace "you".

Maybe teach typing...

[alexhmit01]

I guess I'm too old (at 23), but I find that the abbreviations are pointless. When I send IMs, I often send phrases instead of sentances, but I don't abbreviate words. However, I do abbreviate phrases that have been used as such for over a decade. BRB for "be right back" predates IM, but "u" for you is just silly. It's harder to read, and learning to type would make it immaterial.

Additionally, the traditional abbreviations were for "online phrases." When wat the last time you used "away from keyboard - AFK", "be right back - BRB", "laughing out loud" - LOL, "rolling on the floor laughing - ROTFL", etc., in a real life conversation?

These abbreviations are more reasonable for phrases that would only be used in an online conversation. By that logic, "oic" is an acceptable abbreviation for "oh, I see", given that you only use it to convey an online emotion.

I feel like the best thing would be for teachers to penalize, penalize heavy, and encourage students to STOP using online conventions online as well. If people would write in more reasonable English, communication would be easier.

I find people nitpicking over typos, spelling errors, and grammatical errors strange. However, none of us (unless we are slashdot editors *grin*) should STRIVE to butcher the language.

Better command of the standard language improves communication. Has anyone whose ever held a job or been in an adult relationship ever thought "communication skills are over rated?" Most business and interpersonal problems stem from miscommunications, anything that helps that is a Good Thing.

Alex

My Wife is a High School Teacher

[DaytonCIM]

This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap

I disagree. My wife has no trouble marking down anyone who uses "U" instead of You or "R" instead of Are. Teachers face no dilemma here; students do.

If you as a student cannot use proper grammar and spelling, then you are transferred to a remedial course. If you are still unable to use proper grammar and spelling, then further testing is completed in order to determine if you have a "learning disability."

If you're lazy and refuse to use anything but your "chat-speak," then you'll fail English and High School... then no more chat room, because the only jobs open to you won't pay enough for you to afford an Internet connection.

Learn to type! No, really!

[sedawkgrep]

I thought for awhile on why someone wouldn't be able to realize they're typing this cyber-shorthand and the only thing I could think of was laziness. I mean, I personally couldn't see how on earth u could b substituting words without noticing it.

But then it hit me. It isn't laziness, but the lack of any real typing skills. Shorthand is simply a result of trying to be more efficient in transmitting your thoughts. Repetition of anything will develop into normal practice. This is evident in the ubiquitous and pervasive slang we have.

For me, I've been essentially a touch-typist since about the 9th grade and it only takes me a few hundredths of a second more to type YOU instead of U. My girlfriend however is a one-handed hunt and peck type. She also uses every short-hand substitute I've ever seen.

Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age. This would not only facilitate more productive computer use but should also help foster proper language use by obviating the need for this type of shorthand.

sedawkgrep

Re:Well... languages evolve this way

[dalassa]

I trained myself to type quickly and reasonably accuratly so I could sound like an intelligent person online. Butchering the English language is different from letting it evolve. L33t is slang that has not shown any evidnce of becoming self perpetuated outside of the internet.
I admit I cringe when my relatives who are twice or thrice my age type "how ru doing???/" It just seems wrong for people to talk like that.

It's good to see . . .

[Bagheera]

. . . the reactions to this here. I've always seen 'l33t' speak as something akin to "Ebonics" - a form that's quite valid in it's own context, but that doesn't have a place in school in general, and English class in particular. Netspeak is, at best, a dialect. One that takes an exclusively written form, and is normaly reserved to certain compatible media.

That teachers are taking a stand and slapping kids down for getting lazy (or stupid!) is a good sign. That most of the comments on /. I've read are supportive of the teachers is an even better sign.

Imagine: /. as a bastion against the creeping death of the English language. Scary, is it not?

Dangers of "chat" speak

[akgoel]

One of my kids from summer camp was IM'ing me and was using these alternate spellings. The problem was the alternate spelling of "come" :

"will u cum to camp next year?"

"please cum"

Some things should be fixed before they go too far.

What some people...

[MattC413]

fail to understand, is that what you write, and how you write it, reflects very strongly upon one's self.

For example, in a 'chat room' for Asheron's Call, where people would meet up when the server was not working, there would be many people using this 'leet speak', asking repeatedly for information. By simply using correct capitalization, punctuation, and spelling, I could often get many of the people there to heed my words as if I was a person of authority. Some went so far as to ask how I became employed at Microsoft - I was just a regular user like them, but my choice to use English correctly made them assume that I was someone who knew what they were talking about.

I try to encourage people to use the best spelling and grammar as they can when online. I just cannot 'respect' someone who can't be bothered to type "are" ('r') or "you" ('u') because they want to save themselves from typing two characters.

Try the above sometime. Use your best grammar and spelling and notice how others react to you.

(NOTE: I don't recommend this during intense-gaming situations.. "Help! I am currently in coordinates N7 being att... Uh oh, they have shot me with the... Aw, crap..")

My sister-in-law

[lunenburg]

My sister-in-law is starting her second year at Boston University, and I swear getting emails from her is like getting an email from Prince.

"Hey! I got a msg 4u. It's gonna be 2-cool 4evr!!! :-)"

I can't decide if that's more annoying than my sister and father, who still, in spite of my best efforts to educate them, haven't figured out the basics of the capslock key, new paragraphs, and punctuation in email.

chat room slang in homework?

[consumer]

I don't see how "any hot F's want 2 chat?" could be construed as an essay.

CQ DX DE WB3IZT

[Gonarat]

This may date me a wee bit, but I received my Amateur Radio License back in 1977, when I was 14. I had my novice ticket, so I was limited to CW (Morse Code) over the air. Since CW is a very slow way to communicate, there are many accepted abbreviations and codes. For example: FB OM NO QRM ON UR SIGNAL W9TACO DE WB3IZT Translation : Fine business old man, there is no natural interference on your signal. Your turn, W9TACO (the other person's Ham call), this is WB3IZT (my call).

I would never had dreamed of writing any school work using "code speak" much less expected to get credit for it. "L33T 5P33K" is the same way -- it may be fine on IM or in chatrooms, but it does not belong on school work.

BTW, I know W9TACO is not a valid call sign...if I need to explain it to you, forget it.

j00 m155p3|+ "NUTZ".....

[Ride-My-Rocket]

+h3 c0rr3c+ 4n5|/\|3r 15 "nu+z".

Of Course They're Penalizing Them

[ReadParse]

There should have been no headaches for teachers or hesitation in penalizing the students for using misspellings or "net slang". There is a difference between casual conversation and formal usage of your language, and schoolwork is of the latter category.

Some of us don't even use that kind of slang on the internet. The truth is that it was created by people who either cannot type well or who type lazily. Those of us who understand that effective communication is important realize that typing in complete, correctly spelled, and well formed sentences with correct puncuation gets our ideas across in a more accurate way.

Of course, that doesn't mean that we have no spelling or grammatical errors -- it simply means that we try to communicate our ideas using grammar that is correct. It also creates less confusion for us, because we don't have to remember in what context we're writing and "turn on" or "turn off" our grammar rules.

RP

My MUD speak has invaded my chatrooms

[dlur]

I haven't had much of a problem as of yet with elite haX0r speak invading my real world, but I have had a problem with constantly typing 'look' and enter or 'score' and enter or 'inv' and enter while on ICQ or IRC. I guess playing time on Sojourn3 is catching up with me again.

Oh well,
who sort
I guess that's what we get for living online these days.
l
sc

This annoys me to no end.

[Restil]

Not is the teenage/pre-teen world forming bad habits, but there are a lot of people in the world that pretty much learn english in chatrooms, and you better believe they consider this to be perfectly acceptable conversation language.

I suppose, what bothers me the most is that it just looks and feels retarded. I remember thinking back to first grade, when we were all still learning how to spell. Sometimes it took a while for it to kick in that YOU is not spelled U just because they sound the same. Or SUN/SON, etc etc. With first graders, its an acceptable faux pas. To do so intentionally when you clearly know better is at the height of moronic. I understand the need/desire to abbreviate long words sometimes, but u for you, r for our/are and the extra retarded ur for your, just makes NO credible sense.

And while sometimes I'm willing to write off this stuff as the juvenile swill from those "Damn teenagers", when I see people in their 20's+ doing it, it just makes me sick.

Well, sick is perhaps too strong a word. It just makes me feel artifically intellectually superior to them, and I no longer want to spend my time conversing. Of course, there's always the chance that my assumptions are correct... and perhaps that explains it.

Ok, rant done. Moderate as you will.

-Restil

Its very simple, folks.

[Karen_Frito]

Yes, language evolve. Yes, slang is an accepted part of casual English. Blah, blah, yakkity, smackitty, bring me a nice, big glass of OJ.

However, in a formal setting - and by formal, I mean the workplace, any education setting (As a teacher, or as a student), or the media (newspaper, magazines, etc.), a standard basic form of the language is necessary so that the average person can understand what is being said or written.

This means leaving out slang that specific to an activity, ethnic group or region. (IE: Netspeak, ebonics, or southern "American"). It also includes spelling, grammer and basic editing for clarity of thought.

-Notes-

*Slashdot is -not- a formal setting, so put that red pen away now and stop correcting my spelling. I don't care enough to hit the spellchecker.

*AVERAGE person. Not "Drooling moron", not "Ignormus who never bothered to pay attention in school.", and not "Non-speaker of the language."

No place for text message style abbreviations

[cybergibbons]

If you are using a computer, it isn't hard to type the entire word. Things like r -> are (or possibly our sometimes) don't save any time on a keyboard. Quite often I see abbreviations that work out only 1 character less than the actual word.

The other thing that comes hand in hand with the abbreviations are the lack of punctuation, capitals, or grammer. I have had entire e-mails with no capitals or full stops. It takes a long time to work out what is going on. And people claim they couldn't be bothered using the shift key (or whatever). Surely it takes more effort (if you ever learnt to type properly) to remember to not use the shift key?

I have kicked people off a mailing list I administer because they don't make any sense for the reasons above. I don't reply fully to e-mails, I just tell them to send it again so that I can understand it.

I also find that the people who send the mails like that tend to be quite stupid. I got an e-mail along the lines of:

"do u knw abt undergorund rails"

That was it. I asked what he meant by underground rails. The reply was like this:

"undergorund rails in croydon"

I again asked what he meant by underground rails in Croydon, as it is quite ambiguous, and the area very large. Response:

"my dad told me"

At this point, I wrote an e-mail explaining how much easier it would be for him to just type properly and explain what he meant. I think he wanted me to tell him all I knew about underground features in the area, but I couldn't be bothered because of his attitude.

Yes, there is a place for them on phones and SMS as they aren't easy to type on (even with practice, you can't do 80wpm on a numeric pad). There is also a place for acronyms, such as LOL, BTW, BRB etc. because they actually save a lot of time.

I can tell some bastard is going to send me SMS speak mails now just to wind me up...

Language change

[evilpenguin]

One of the the things I have always loved about the English language is its democratic elitism. Permit me to explain. Some languages, such as French, actually have a body that decides formally what consitutes the language.

English doesn't do that. English does have an elite that decides what is in the standard language, but that elite is the collection of writers, editors, and lexicographers who work with the language in the modes of cultural production. So, what Standard English is is decided by a literate elite, but membership in this literate elite is open to anyone based on merit.

But that is not all. Beneath that "high brow" crowd who write literature and scan literature for new usage, there are hundreds of thousands of idiomatic communities speaking and using untold varieties of English. These are not "Standard English," but they are living, breathing, socially functional dialects of English. From time to time, a writer of genius emerges from such a community and brings new usage, idioms, and ways of speaking into that "staid and stuffy" elite. Those portions that speak in new ways, ways that other communities of English find useful, get taken up by the English speaking world at large. Then we find these new usages showing up both in other dialect communities, and in the elite world of "Standard English."

Thus the world of Standard English is reactionary, conservative, and resistant to change, but this is as it should be. This is the force of stability that allows us to read (albeit with difficulty for some) six hundred year old Elizabethan English, like Shakespeare, and should allow English speakers six hundred years from now to read Toni Morrison or Neal Stephenson. At the same time, the vernacular throbs with creativity. Vibrant and electric new words, phrases and idioms crackle into being every day. Most are lost. Some appear only in the margins, in the throw away dialoge of television scripts, or in idiom spoken by characters in novels; mere markers in the history of the language. Some, however, merge into that conservative realm where they join such everyday poetry as "being blue," or "flight of stairs."

I've studied only a few of the world's languages, but so far English is my one true love. Latin and French have their charms for me, but English owns my mind. I treasure both the stodgy elite (which anyone may join; all one must do is add to the great literature of the English language -- no problem!), and the endless, almost frantic, creativity of everyday speakers of English.

Bearing in mind all of the foregoing, schools are not there to institutionalize the random creativity of English. That takes care of itself. They are there to be sure that we all have access to the stodgy collection of Standard English, so we may get our random creativity past the reactionary gatekeepers of the language. All good literature simultaneously reveres the language and subverts it. The most striking example, to me, is "Huckleberry Finn," the first novel with real American voices in it, as opposed to a bunch of Americans speaking more or less just like British speakers of English. Reverence and subversion.

Re:Learn to type! No, really!

[Zathrus]

It isn't laziness, but the lack of any real typing skills

It has to be this... on IRC and in games I can easily out-type anyone using "short hand" while I type full words.

Once upon a time I was a very fast typist (>100 wpm), but it's gone down to probably around 70 wpm nowadays. Sure, that's still fast, but any touch typist should be able to type faster than I can if they aren't typing full words.

Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age

It should probably be taught shortly after writing skills. Being able to type is just as important as being able to write nowadays. I know some people will blanch at that, but take the average office worker and compare how much they have to type into a computer versus how much they have to write down on a piece of paper.

I just hope that schools have gotten out of the dark ages regarding touch typing. I recall going to a school competition around 1990. I entered into the typing competition since I knew I was a fast and accurate typist. I don't think I got more than a couple sentences done though -- I was definitely not expecting to have to deal with an electric typewriter that didn't even process line breaks properly. I spent more time being amazed at how backwards the competition was than I did actually typing.

translation into proper english

[Dr. Awktagon]

D33r MrZ. butts3x0r

Dear Mrs. Endlove,

U g0tz a k1d d4t 41n7 d01n h1z w3rK r1t3, b1zn0tch!

Your son is not completing his assignment correctly, ma'am.

h3 k33p t4lk1n L1k3 h3 41n7 g0tZ n0 c3ntz!

His manner of writing indicates a lack of formative education.

WTF?

I wonder why this might be the case?

U = p3n1s 1n U aZZ!

My experience tells me this is usually the result of poor parenting. For instance, a child's mother may spend more time with her husband or boyfriend than with her child, robbing him of important life lessons.

sux0rz 2BU!

The results of a bad upbringing reflect negatively on the responsible parent.

h0p3 y3r br4t g3tz h1z NUTZ ch0ppa 0ff!

Your son may find it difficult to complete his assignments at school, and may experience ridicule from his peers.

Language Migration

[peatbakke]

Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of the English language, and I think that it is a good idea to limit severe language deviations, particularly in a formal academic setting. I'm not going to endorse the substitution of 'r' and 'u' for 'are' and 'you', but simply make a point of the roll such things play in the evolution of a language.

I'm an American, and I'm studying linguistics (amongst other things) in New Zealand. It's an interesting place to study linguistics, because New Zealand is one of the very few places (if not the only place) where there is a fairly complete aural record of the evolution from it's roots in the United Kingdom to it's modern form.

Language is a hard target to pin down. Even in countries that try to limit linguistic migration (such as France) can't slow it down significantly, even in times without huge revolutions in communication. English is one of the fastest changing, and most diverse languages on the planet, and it only takes the space of about two generations for the "proper" high culture forms of the language to change significantly.

A major shift in communication technology makes the changes occur much, much faster. The advent of radio made western urban American English the "proper" form of American English in the span of about five years. National broadcasters go through an enormous amount of training to develop that accent, as do politicians and other public figures. Listen to Clinton's speeches at the beginning and end of his term, or even how George Bush's (much ridiculed) accent has started to change.

It's expected that the Internet will have the same effect on written languages that the radio had on spoken languages. Interestingly enough, it wasn't until the advent of the newspaper that English spelling (both American and British) became more or less standardized across large geographic regions.

Ironically, the first place to hear about a significant change in language is in the editorial / opinion sections of news papers ... and it's never good news! Furthermore, it's always about primary and secondary school kids.

Anyhow, I suspect that the practice of using 'oic' and 'l8r' in written English will expand dramatically over the next decade. Distasteful? Perhaps. But keep in mind that there's only one standard for language: the de facto standard.

l33t l0rdZ pr4y3r

[intermodal]

0ur F47h3r, wH0 4r7 n h34V3n, h4110w3d b3 7HY n4m3, 7hy k1ngd0m c0m3, 7hy wI11 b d0n3, 0N 34r7h 4s i7 iS iN h34v3n. G1v3 u5 th15 d4y 0ur d4i1y br34d, & f0rg1v3 u5 0ur tr35p45535, 4s w3 f0rg1v3 7h05e wh0 tr35p455 4g41n5t u5. nope...thats still using old english l33t, an entire other dialect...it would be more along the lines of r f47h3r wh0 l1v3Z 1n h34v3n, wh0 0wnZ0r j00, g1v3 u5 0ur f00d, 4nd f0r6iv3n355 u5 f0r 0ur oWnZ1n9s 4nd f14m1n95, a5 w3 f0r91v3 7h053 wh0 0wnz0r 4nd f14m3z u5.

{LOL}

[A_Non_Moose]

I can see it now:

Note on a students assignment:

"Learn to FSCKING spell!!!1!11!".

Oh, the irony.

Can this affect how our brains work?

[ChrisJones]

Personally, I find that l33t sp33k annoys the crap out of me. It's marginally acceptable in SMS messages, but really doesn't belong anywhere else imo. I don't even use it myself in SMS' because my phone as T9 input and I can type messages in pretty damn quickly.
An interesting meme I wanted to throw down is that language is more than just communication, it's a formal way of constructing ideas not only for communication to others, but also in our own minds; Much in the way that mathematics has it's own language for the formulation and transmission of concepts.
If common English starts to lose it's formal structure and we descend into some kind of Taxilinga, I will be worried that the ability to formalise and construct logical thought patterns will be lost to some people (I guess it probably already is lost to people who say 'like' and 'know what I'z sayin' 4 times a sentence ;)
I'm hanging on to Queen's English until the day I die either way :)

Real problem with education is the late start

[totallygeek]

I was lucky to have a mother that not only stayed home with me when I was young, but also one that made learning fun. Her and her friends would record themselves reading books into a tape recorder. I would sit with the books and follow along while my mom helped me. After a while, she would have me try to read books to her. She also had me learn how to count, add and subtract using coins. Multiplication came next, and she made me learn, not just memorize, multiplication. By the time I hit kindergarten I knew how to read, write (no Big Chief for me, regular paper, regular pens), add and subtract (any size numbers, and understood negatives), multiply (for large numbers used repeating additions, times tables memorized to 13x13), and understood division. School was difficult because I was bored, but never stopped learning at home. By second grade (I remember because I switched schools) I knew how to type, write in cursive, could take even square roots, understood factoring, fractions, and was learning shorthand (my mother was from the old-school Du Pont typing and dictation pools). In school I would get into trouble for not paying attention, going too fast, etc.

The long and short is that kids today are too easily learning things before the education system can get to them. There isn't a typing class until high school in most areas. Hell, I see many kids around seven that type 30+ wpm. They learn to read online via chat rooms, websites, and other methods before they are assigned Dick and Jane or Pug. Then, the intelligent children are asked to slow down so those without computers can catch up without feeling embarassment. This is sad, and it is why many Asian and European countries continually kick the US' ass in youth aptitude.

Let the kids that excel do just that. While I think "net speak" should be counted as incorrect English for papers submitted, the knowledge the kid posesses to use the chat rooms, computer, etc., should be commended.

Plus character substitution:

[edunbar93]

0wr F4th3R, wh0 0wnz h34\/3n, j00 r0x0rs! M4y 4|| 0wr b4s3 s0m3d4y Bl0ng t0 j00! M4y j00 0wn 34rth juss |1|3 j00 0wn h34\/3n. G1v3 us th1s d4y 0wr w4r3z, mp3z, 'n pr0n thr0ugh a ph4t |. 4nd cut us s0m3 sl4ck wh3n w3 4ct lik3 n00b l4m3rz, juss 4s w3 g1v3 n00bz 4 l34rn1n wh3n th3y l4m3 2 us. Pl34s3 d0n't l3t us 0wn s0m3 p00r d00d'z b0x3n wh3n w3'r3 t00 p1ss3d t0 th1nk 4b0ut wh4t's r1ght 4nd wr0ng, 4nd 1f j00 c0uld k33p th3 f3i 0ff 0wr b4ckz, w3'd 'pr3c14t3 1t. F0r j00 0wn 4ll 0wr b0x3n 43v3r 4nd 3v3r, 4m3n!

Now if that's not as incomprehensible as old English, I don't know what is. :)

Re:Plus character substitution:

[EvilNight]

You're getting there... there's just a few problems.

Through and all variants of it were long ago replaced with "thru", just like Though was replaced with "tho". They wouldn't reference the FBI, it's always "the man" nowadays. Please has been universally replaced with "plz". There are new terms for "own" these days as well. "0wn" refers to posessing something, whereas "pwn" refers to kicking someone's ass be it physically, verbally in debate, or by proving them wrong.

Use of letters M W N H etc are replaced sometimes with a combination of slash characters, changing them to |\/| |/\| |\| |-| respectively. I'll leave those out, in this font at least they are a terrific blow to reading comprehension.

I also wonder if "our father" shouldn't be replaced with something else... Linus perhaps, or a reference to root... don't know really, nothing I think of seems to fit but I have this nagging suspicion that "our father" ought to go.

Also a bit too much with the "t0 t00 tw0", all of those have collapsed into just plain "2" now.

So we end up with this...

0wr F4th3R, wh0 0wnz h34\/3n, j00 r0x0rs! M4y 4|| 0wr b4s3 s0m3d4y Bl0ng t0 j00! M4y j00 0wn 34rth juss |1|3 j00 0wn h34\/3n. G1v3 us th1s d4y 0wr w4r3z, mp3z, 'n pr0n thru a ph4t |. 4nd cut us s0m3 sl4ck wh3n w3 4ct lik3 n00b l4m3rz, juss 4s w3 g1v3 n00bz 4 l34rn1n wh3n th3y r l4m3 2 us. Plz d0n't l3t us 0wn s0m3 p00r d00d'z b0x3n wh3n w3'r3 2 p1ss3d 2 th1nk 4b0ut wh4t's r1ght 4nd wr0ng, 4nd 1f j00 c0uld k33p th3 m4n 0ff 0wr b4ckz, w3'd 'pr3c14t3 1t. F0r j00 0wn 4ll 0wr b0x3n 43v3r 4n 3v3r^#*)@&$NO CARRIER

I can sympathize

[guttentag]

I can understand where these students are coming from.

When I was in elementary school, I found a secret decoder wheel in a box of... (checks box on shelf) Lucky Charms. I got so used to using it that I began encoding all my homework without thinking about it. My teachers didn't mind so long as I provided them with a secret decoder wheel of their own.

I was reading about encryption when I was in high school, and I would inadvertently switch into encoded mode, change the binary text to ASCII and write the corresponding binary string of numbers. Boy, was my English teacher mad when I turned in 20-page-long handwritten short essays... especially when I explained that the key was "mrs<omitted>sucks"

Still, the unencoded version used proper spelling and grammar, so there wasn't much she could do about it -- except send me to the principal's office. If these kids want to protect their intellectual property by encoding it (in their case, they're using L33t speak), they should at least adhere to proper grammar and spelling.

</sarcasm>

Basic English

[cpeterso]

An interesting "fork" of the English language is Charles Ogden's Basic English . Basic English is like a Esperanto for the real world. Ogden wanted to create a small, consistent, non-redundant subset of the English language that would help foreigners quickly adapt to an English-speaking country. His languages contains just 850 English words of use in everyday conversations. He claims that it takes seven years to learn polished English, seven months to learn Esperanto, and only one month to learn Basic English.

I wish someone would do the same for other languages, such as Spanish. I guess you could just translate the Basic English dictionary to Spanish, but that does not address consistent grammatical rules like Ogden's book did when designing Basic English.

Bullshit. This is about POWER!

[Fantastic Lad]

Three things.

1) Using numbers instead of letters is not a time saving technique. It's complicated and current keyboards make it a 'stretch'. (Those 3,4,5 and 7 keys are waaay off the 'home' row!) Indeed, 'leet' speak is used specifically to set people apart and stand one's turf in an age where being something apart from the establishment is really important. Though, it's so bloody juvenile! It's akin to spray painting walls with your 'tag' and by whatever a tattoo or piercing once denoted before such things became just another dipshit lemming affectation. (Hint: When more than 5% of the population adopt a trend, it slips from 'cool' to 'pathetic' really fast. Might as well wear a fucking Nike swish at this point. --Too bad those tattoos are permanent, eh?) Anyway, 'Leet' speak is about conveying attitude, and means nothing beyond that. Most of it will pass same as all that cute jargon from the fifties, daddio, --and the 1910's, what what?

In any case, I don't think anybody uses 'leet' speak for real anymore anyway. It's turned into a square-ball's old fogey conversation topic, (yes, I'm talking to you). All the original users have moved right the fuck on.

2) Sure, language is whatever written or spoken sequence is good for getting ideas across. So 'U' instead of 'You' is fine. It works. We all get it, so get over it. However, those who use such simplifications exclusively are doing themselves a disservice because. . .

3) POWER is the invisible factor here.

Twit-child who honestly doesn't know how to spell 'You', or who doesn't know when or why to capitalize, or who simply doesn't know how to construct words and sentences according to classic spelling and grammatical rules, is quite simply not going to get the respect s/he needs from the professional world in order to gain power in the higher rankings of society.

The fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who, upon receiving any correspondence littered with 'new & improved' spellings, are going to judge the sender ignorant, lazy and kinda slow.

The way things stand today, by knowing how to command written language with power and agility, one will ALWAYS have a much more successful time in dealing with banks, landlords, schools, government and businesses, -and all their fellow humans in any kind of written forum. Despite the logic behind new language validity, the impulse when one sees 'newspeak' is to think, "Fuck you, Loser." --And while you may want that on occassion, (there is power in everything), it's retarded not to be able to switch styles at a moment's notice. Why limit yourself?

So learn your ABC's kids. If not, chances are somebody will do worse than hurt you, (which they'll certainly try to do as well!). --They'll laugh at you with hate while you sink.

Lacking the facility to read and write properly is a one-way ticket to lower-class slavery.

Fantastic Lad

So What?

[foqn1bo]

I believe that students should be taught a standarized form of English in the classroom. It's simply the best way to ensure effective communication with a wide range of people(assuming they too have learned this standard). That said, I think that the methods and methodologies of American educators need serious rethinking.

I wonder if anyone reading Slashdot remembers the snafu over "Ebonics" from a number of years ago. Sometime in the 90's a school board in Oakland decided that it might be a good idea to recognize African American English(AAE)as a language spoken by a large percentage of its student body, and to educate teachers on how to effectively communicate with students. The Media(tm) had an uproar over it, and assailed them for trying to teach "Ebonics" as a foreign language. Much like Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders was trying to "teach children Masturbation", but I digress. I don't remember much about the incident as a teen, but I do remember the overbearing attitudes of my white peers and neighbors, which seemed to center around something like

"Why can't those damn black kids speak proper english like us?"

Linguistically speaking, AAE is a structurally and intellectually valid language, featuring complex syntax, pronunciation and grammar rules just like any other. I don't have the time or the resources to go into it, so I'll point you here. The truth of the matter is that the culturally and economically elite have been using standardized language to assert their hegemony over society for years, and the same true in America as it was in the initial triangle between Oxford, Cambridge and London. Students in America are teased, ridiculed and insulted for the use of valid dialects in ordinary speech. If you're a white American reader, chances are spectacular that you grew up speaking standard English in the home. Well, how convenient for you. The real point of an English class is not to get students speaking standard English natively or ordinarily, but simply to afford them the ability to use it when necessary (Higher education, job interviews, etc etc). The Oakland schoolboard's original idea was to make it easier for this to occur; teachers would be able to show comparisons between AAE and standard English, and help students learn what they need to change where and when.

Instead our educators(and much of the slashdot readership)assert their supposed superiority by scoffing at the "idiocy" and "childishness" of non standard language features. So while I'm not going to make any claims that l33t is a full featured language, perhaps teachers should try teaching children what it is, why it exists, and how it differs from standard English. Encourage kids to learn and use a standard dialect for specific skills, but don't simply punish them as though their deliberately trying to pollute the language. Sometimes I think gradeschool needs basic linguistics classes just so kids can learn why their English teachers are being such assholes to them.