Slashdot Mirror
"L33T" Speak Invades Schools
Masem writes "NYTimes reports on how common chat room/IM shortcuts (such as 'u' for you, 'r' for are, etc) are creeping into the classroom and homework assignments from those teenage kids that spend a significant amount of time in chat programs. This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap, and to try to prevent further abuse of the language, have begun penalizing students for using the net slang. Students sometimes don't even realize they use the chat room shorthand until it's pointed out to them, because that method of chatting has become second nature to them."
If they can't differentiate between being online and writing on paper for school on which they'll be graded on, what hope is there left for the world?
...but that doesn't make it proper English. Save the 'l33t speek for cyberspace, learn how to speak the language properly in the classroom.
It will help you in aspects of life that have nothing to do with computers (yes, they do exist!)
I was wondering why my spell checker was having such a hard time with the absence of punctuation and plethora of acronyms.
When will they come out with M$ w3Rd 31337 ?
"Kinky sex involves the use of duck feathers. Perverted sex involves the whole duck." - Lewis Grizzard
teachers... have begun penalizing students for using the net slang
Good! More power to them! School assignments should be written in grammatically correct English, using proper spelling. This requirement might be lifted for certain creative writing assignments, but in general, this is what schools should be doing.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
This is, at best, a cop out. When I was younger, I ran home everyday and got on BBS's. I used kewl, l8r, btw, etc, day in, day out. If these kids can't figure it out or they 'forget' (don't spell checkers catch this stuff?), too bad for them. I feel for the teachers who have to grade 100 papers and mark down for spelling cool with a k, but I would stand behind any teacher who did so.
--trb
I work for a hedge fund, and I regularly get emails from a Managing Director that say things like "r u sure we should do that". No punctuation, no caps.
"If I could live to be several hundred
I could take a walk and really wander, really wonder."
D33r MrZ. butts3x0r
U g0tz a k1d d4t 41n7 d01n h1z w3rK r1t3, b1zn0tch! h3 k33p t4lk1n L1k3 h3 41n7 g0tZ n0 c3ntz! WTF? U = p3n1s 1n U aZZ!
sux0rz 2BU! h0p3 y3r br4t g3tz h1z NUTZ ch0ppa 0ff!
-Mr. Demarcus
History Department
My HS AP English teacher must have been way ahead of the curve. She instituted an automatic -10% penalty for "egregious" use of the english language. And there was no cap at 0% - as she put it, "yes, you can do so badly on a essay that I will take points off of your previous essays." One poor kid in the grade below me lost 40% in a single sentence (there's just something about using 'a' as a verb) - omg is was the funniest thing I ever saw.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
A friend of mine, Rayner, who works at a University in England has also received a job application from an undergraduate that contained 'L33T' speak (well, Mobile Phone abbreviations). Think about it, this person had already GOT TO UNIVERSITY!
Needless to say he told them to rewrite it (after getting a copy).
Schools? Hell, my coworker uses such slang. He's a foreigner who must have learned chatroom-speak at the same time that he learned English, and must think it's acceptable in a proffessional workplace. Or maybe his teachers in college didn't beat him enough for using chatroom-speak on his homework.
I'm currently in my senior year of engineering school. As one of our requirements, we must take a course in Technical Communication, which is basicly the art of writing memos and proposals. I wasn't really looking forward to the class, but I was ok with an easy class before graduation. Well... The technical communications instructor writes in chat speak. Her communication skills are ok, but I would expect her to teach by example, yet every one of her e-mails to the class has used u->you, r->are, etc. This is a college instructor in technical communication, and she can't even remember when to use proper grammar!!
chalkboard:
...
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
LOL is not a word
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
If there was ever a reason for corporal punishment in schools, 1337 speak would be it.
Could someone please post the article here on Slashdot? I keep trying to read it on the NY Times website, but my eyes are continually drawn towards "Eve Brecker". And she's WHAT??? Only 15!?!??! Oh lord.....
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
"L33t" speak in all forms is lame, obnoxious, and childish unless used for sarcastic mocking of those who use it. I don't discuss things in depth with anyone who uses it as a primary pattern of writing, and usually consider those that use it to be unintelligent and foolish.
The Internet is the greatest form of human communication ever developed, to cheapen it by using poor language out of a willful choice is just sad.
If anyone talks like that to me offline, I will call them a fucking idiot. To their face.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
A few months after I got my palm pilot w/ Graffitti on it I actually had to write some notes on *gasp!* paper... I went back to my desk to review them and was shocked to find I had written them all Graffitti style and not in my actual hand writing... I no longer use my palm pilot (mainly cause the batteries died and I'm lazy)...
Teachers may have orthography rules and can try to teach "proper" writings, but as more and more people write 'u' for 'you' this rules have to be audjusted cause proper language is common language.
Or does someone still spell it 'thou'?
You know, the ones who play FPSes and are constantly yelling at each other! If they're going to stay 1337, they need to keep talking differently than others. One day, I'm going to log onto a quake server and see this:
EliteFellow: Ah-ha! My aiming skills are unmatched. I have such prowess it is as though I own you.
TricksterMan: Not so! Network latency has inhibited my natural reflexes!
EliteFellow: You deserved your comeuppance, you have been jealously guarding the Quadruple Damage for some time now without moving elsewhere!
I think that would scare me more than leetspeak, really.
-Denor
Phrases like "IMHO" predate these youngsters by decades, but I can't recall ever becoming so confused as to use them in a formal essay. And despite using Unix "talk" for years, I never ended a term paper with "oo" (over and out). Sheesh.
It cracks me up to think there are people who believe that just because something is birthed of the internet it is devine. Be it music piracy, netslang, software piracy. I remember when I was an IRC junky I had to re-learn how to spell when it came back to the real world. Not to sound like an old geezer but people need to speak plain english, or whatever language you may speak. For those quick to point out my mispellings kiss my a** i'm a recovering undernetoholic.
A few low grades will certainly help them remember the difference between chatrooms and book reports!
I hate to sound like I'm trying to protect the "King's English", but chatroom slang became such in an effort to be able to convey ideas through typing at the rate of talking, and it should be kept to chatrooms. The last thing we need is a generation (gee, I'm sounding old at 26) of kids hitting the Universities thinking "ur" is a valid re-contraction of "you're", and "u" can easily replace "you".
I've picked up a lot of bad habits, particularly leaving the first word/words off sentences, because typing on muds and channels on GEnie (which was mentioned on /. some time back) and the less you type, the more you say, simple economy. Bad grammar though. i.e. "Going to store?" rather than "Are you going to the store?"
However, the language evolves, as we the people use it, hence dialects across demographic rather than physical terrain. Neat, when you consider this is yet another affect of a wired world.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The other night we had to go to a parents' meeting at our sons' school.
At the end we were all milling around, and their teacher and I started chatting about the boys. She told me she appreciated how polite they were to each other, to her, and to the other students--among other standard teacher complements.
Soon she complement my wife and me on our parenting skills by saying, "You and Chris are doing a good job as parents. So props to you."
My brother, a High School senior, constantly uses 'leet' in his normal speech.. Not to mention all of his friends.. everything is 1337. Of course, these are the same guys that walk up to each other (i've seen this), and say something like: "D00d! You see that L33t Chix0r over there!?" "Yeah" "Not in a million years will either of us get there..."
This brings to mind the Worth1000 photoshop contest of 'What if Hackers rules the world'. Pretty funny stuff in there. I especially like the ch4mp00 entry..
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
I guess I'm too old (at 23), but I find that the abbreviations are pointless. When I send IMs, I often send phrases instead of sentances, but I don't abbreviate words. However, I do abbreviate phrases that have been used as such for over a decade. BRB for "be right back" predates IM, but "u" for you is just silly. It's harder to read, and learning to type would make it immaterial.
Additionally, the traditional abbreviations were for "online phrases." When wat the last time you used "away from keyboard - AFK", "be right back - BRB", "laughing out loud" - LOL, "rolling on the floor laughing - ROTFL", etc., in a real life conversation?
These abbreviations are more reasonable for phrases that would only be used in an online conversation. By that logic, "oic" is an acceptable abbreviation for "oh, I see", given that you only use it to convey an online emotion.
I feel like the best thing would be for teachers to penalize, penalize heavy, and encourage students to STOP using online conventions online as well. If people would write in more reasonable English, communication would be easier.
I find people nitpicking over typos, spelling errors, and grammatical errors strange. However, none of us (unless we are slashdot editors *grin*) should STRIVE to butcher the language.
Better command of the standard language improves communication. Has anyone whose ever held a job or been in an adult relationship ever thought "communication skills are over rated?" Most business and interpersonal problems stem from miscommunications, anything that helps that is a Good Thing.
Alex
Words once in common parlance are no longer employed, such as thee and thou. Whence, hither, yon, also not generally used.
Language and spelling evolve.
This is not to say that I would expect a teacher to be tolerant of a student using r for are. My teachers wanted me to spell theater, not theatre. I can also do without some kind of Orwellian newspeak, where the words are so over-simplified as to lose any kind of nuance. So, the students are wrong in this time and place. But they might be right in the future.
IANAL(inguist), but I do find the history of English interesting.
Do not touch -Willie
This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments, much less understand them because of the techno-generation gap
I disagree. My wife has no trouble marking down anyone who uses "U" instead of You or "R" instead of Are. Teachers face no dilemma here; students do.
If you as a student cannot use proper grammar and spelling, then you are transferred to a remedial course. If you are still unable to use proper grammar and spelling, then further testing is completed in order to determine if you have a "learning disability."
If you're lazy and refuse to use anything but your "chat-speak," then you'll fail English and High School... then no more chat room, because the only jobs open to you won't pay enough for you to afford an Internet connection.
I thought for awhile on why someone wouldn't be able to realize they're typing this cyber-shorthand and the only thing I could think of was laziness. I mean, I personally couldn't see how on earth u could b substituting words without noticing it.
But then it hit me. It isn't laziness, but the lack of any real typing skills. Shorthand is simply a result of trying to be more efficient in transmitting your thoughts. Repetition of anything will develop into normal practice. This is evident in the ubiquitous and pervasive slang we have.
For me, I've been essentially a touch-typist since about the 9th grade and it only takes me a few hundredths of a second more to type YOU instead of U. My girlfriend however is a one-handed hunt and peck type. She also uses every short-hand substitute I've ever seen.
Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age. This would not only facilitate more productive computer use but should also help foster proper language use by obviating the need for this type of shorthand.
sedawkgrep
Is that a salami in my pants or am I just happy to be me?
I'm far from an expert, but real l33t 5p34k involves the substitution of symbols for letters to form words. Often these substituted symbols are higher ASCII values, though there are many dialiects of "l33t". Using "u" for "You" and r for "are" just seems like laziness, and is in no way 31337.
1'm @m @n 31337 H@X0R.
For examples of the differnt dialects possible, see the Lamerizer.
. . . the reactions to this here. I've always seen 'l33t' speak as something akin to "Ebonics" - a form that's quite valid in it's own context, but that doesn't have a place in school in general, and English class in particular. Netspeak is, at best, a dialect. One that takes an exclusively written form, and is normaly reserved to certain compatible media.
/. I've read are supportive of the teachers is an even better sign.
/. as a bastion against the creeping death of the English language. Scary, is it not?
That teachers are taking a stand and slapping kids down for getting lazy (or stupid!) is a good sign. That most of the comments on
Imagine:
Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
Once these kids graduate and are living on their own, think of the language gap!
Yes, Word can be annoying because it enjoys to autocorrect, but if I had problems typing in l33t sp34k I'd just setup a few autocorrect entries like "u = you" and "cuz = because".
7h1s c0mm3nt iz w4ck! D00d3rZ, y c4nt u p0s7 m0r3 0ff3n?
One of my kids from summer camp was IM'ing me and was using these alternate spellings. The problem was the alternate spelling of "come" :
"will u cum to camp next year?"
"please cum"
Some things should be fixed before they go too far.
fail to understand, is that what you write, and how you write it, reflects very strongly upon one's self.
For example, in a 'chat room' for Asheron's Call, where people would meet up when the server was not working, there would be many people using this 'leet speak', asking repeatedly for information. By simply using correct capitalization, punctuation, and spelling, I could often get many of the people there to heed my words as if I was a person of authority. Some went so far as to ask how I became employed at Microsoft - I was just a regular user like them, but my choice to use English correctly made them assume that I was someone who knew what they were talking about.
I try to encourage people to use the best spelling and grammar as they can when online. I just cannot 'respect' someone who can't be bothered to type "are" ('r') or "you" ('u') because they want to save themselves from typing two characters.
Try the above sometime. Use your best grammar and spelling and notice how others react to you.
(NOTE: I don't recommend this during intense-gaming situations.. "Help! I am currently in coordinates N7 being att... Uh oh, they have shot me with the... Aw, crap..")
FFFFFFFFFFFFF!
Not only is the statement odd in the first place, it is horrendous English. Why? 'w/' is not a word. It is a very informal shorthand for 'with.' You do not use informal shorthand in academic papers. '@' only means 'at' in bill.gates@microsoft.com. It is indefensible in this context. Whatever the weak case can be made for evolution of a language, etc., you must be able to communicate clearly in any language according to a set of understood rules/grammar/usage. Anything else is just registered dialect. You can write that way in a chatroom, but not in my classroom.
'Discourse in not life. It's time is not yours.' -- Michel Foucault
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
My sister-in-law is starting her second year at Boston University, and I swear getting emails from her is like getting an email from Prince.
:-)"
"Hey! I got a msg 4u. It's gonna be 2-cool 4evr!!!
I can't decide if that's more annoying than my sister and father, who still, in spite of my best efforts to educate them, haven't figured out the basics of the capslock key, new paragraphs, and punctuation in email.
I don't see how "any hot F's want 2 chat?" could be construed as an essay.
English mother f***er, do you speak it?
Guess not
But, really, is this news? As I recall teachers have been decducting points for improper use of english and bad spelling for a while now. I do realize that this does somewhat have to do with the internet, but really it's just another form of slang.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
This may date me a wee bit, but I received my Amateur Radio License back in 1977, when I was 14. I had my novice ticket, so I was limited to CW (Morse Code) over the air. Since CW is a very slow way to communicate, there are many accepted abbreviations and codes. For example: FB OM NO QRM ON UR SIGNAL W9TACO DE WB3IZT Translation : Fine business old man, there is no natural interference on your signal. Your turn, W9TACO (the other person's Ham call), this is WB3IZT (my call).
I would never had dreamed of writing any school work using "code speak" much less expected to get credit for it. "L33T 5P33K" is the same way -- it may be fine on IM or in chatrooms, but it does not belong on school work.
BTW, I know W9TACO is not a valid call sign...if I need to explain it to you, forget it.
Beware of Sleestak
I doubt that 98% of what goes on in chat rooms is even communication, let alone a form of vernacular English.
The only thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns anything from history.
Pick up any gangsta rap album (of any ethnicity), and you'll probably hear something like:
"Let me aks you niggaz sump'n, a'ight?"
That's how languages evolve, deal with it.
Anyone who says "dude", "man", "gonna" or "ain't" is guilty of contributing to the change of english. No one speaks Chaucerian or Shakespearian or even Coleridge-ian anymore! And it's perfectly acceptable in the real world. For better or for worse.
Fuck, look at how badly George W mutilites the language. Ever notice when Newspapers quote him, they always type what he "meant" to say, versus what he actually said? Only liberal papers insert the [sic].
And rap is hardly to blame -- I also blame Cyndi Lauper and her vowel reversal trend that started all this!
(My apologies, as I'm not sure if the n-bomb is offensive or not in this context, i'm just a Benneton(tm) white-boy who thinks he's PC)
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
ph33r |\/|y L33t |-|0|\/|3\/\/0rxz 5||11z!!!11!!
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
...languages change over time because people change. It's a sad truth, but it's possible that 50 years from now, "you" will be spelled "u". Or shall we be correct ans say "thou"? :)
Somehow, I doubt that the majority of current teenage students using typing shortcuts in their writing are doing so without thought. If every book they've read and teacher they've had has shown them differently, why the sudden switch to chat lingo now?
I haven't read the article yet, but I would suspect coolness and laziness play more of a role in this than ignorance. Teachers coming down hard (as they should) will stamp this out.
-s
- - - - - - - -
Don't worry, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep in a giant blender.
+h3 c0rr3c+ 4n5|/\|3r 15 "nu+z".
Ok.. my question is if eubonics are given special treatment then why not l33tsp3k?? This is a form of discrimination, it's stomping on my national rights to my techno heritage, schools should be teaching this to everyone, we should have collage courses on the history of l33tsp3k!!
This is an outrage, it's all ment to put the teksavvy down, power to the people!! Make your voice heard!!
Just remember that language changes with the time. If not we'd still be talking in Old English. With that said, I'm not supporting what the kids are doing; they need to learn proper grammar and spelling. However, people trying to crack down on l337 speak in all forms should keep in mind that we don't use Shakespear's English anymore.
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." -George Bernard Shaw
There should have been no headaches for teachers or hesitation in penalizing the students for using misspellings or "net slang". There is a difference between casual conversation and formal usage of your language, and schoolwork is of the latter category.
Some of us don't even use that kind of slang on the internet. The truth is that it was created by people who either cannot type well or who type lazily. Those of us who understand that effective communication is important realize that typing in complete, correctly spelled, and well formed sentences with correct puncuation gets our ideas across in a more accurate way.
Of course, that doesn't mean that we have no spelling or grammatical errors -- it simply means that we try to communicate our ideas using grammar that is correct. It also creates less confusion for us, because we don't have to remember in what context we're writing and "turn on" or "turn off" our grammar rules.
RP
The examples are all trivial to replace with the non-shortcut version except, perhaps, "2". It's just a shorthand. Of course, for "formal writing", you shouldn't turn in something with shorthand, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't write it that way. It's not really different from underlining titles (titles should be italicized; underlining is a handwriting/typewriter shorthand for italics) or writing in cursive.
It's not like they're using inconsistant spelling and abbreviating things all over the place like, say, Shakespear.
I haven't had much of a problem as of yet with elite haX0r speak invading my real world, but I have had a problem with constantly typing 'look' and enter or 'score' and enter or 'inv' and enter while on ICQ or IRC. I guess playing time on Sojourn3 is catching up with me again.
Oh well,
who sort
I guess that's what we get for living online these days.
l
sc
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
Not is the teenage/pre-teen world forming bad habits, but there are a lot of people in the world that pretty much learn english in chatrooms, and you better believe they consider this to be perfectly acceptable conversation language.
I suppose, what bothers me the most is that it just looks and feels retarded. I remember thinking back to first grade, when we were all still learning how to spell. Sometimes it took a while for it to kick in that YOU is not spelled U just because they sound the same. Or SUN/SON, etc etc. With first graders, its an acceptable faux pas. To do so intentionally when you clearly know better is at the height of moronic. I understand the need/desire to abbreviate long words sometimes, but u for you, r for our/are and the extra retarded ur for your, just makes NO credible sense.
And while sometimes I'm willing to write off this stuff as the juvenile swill from those "Damn teenagers", when I see people in their 20's+ doing it, it just makes me sick.
Well, sick is perhaps too strong a word. It just makes me feel artifically intellectually superior to them, and I no longer want to spend my time conversing. Of course, there's always the chance that my assumptions are correct... and perhaps that explains it.
Ok, rant done. Moderate as you will.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Yes, I once had an email like that. I hate txt'er/l33t speak at the best of times, but important business emails are definately not the place and it took me twice as long as usual to work out what on earth they were going on about.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Yes, language evolve. Yes, slang is an accepted part of casual English. Blah, blah, yakkity, smackitty, bring me a nice, big glass of OJ.
However, in a formal setting - and by formal, I mean the workplace, any education setting (As a teacher, or as a student), or the media (newspaper, magazines, etc.), a standard basic form of the language is necessary so that the average person can understand what is being said or written.
This means leaving out slang that specific to an activity, ethnic group or region. (IE: Netspeak, ebonics, or southern "American"). It also includes spelling, grammer and basic editing for clarity of thought.
-Notes-
*Slashdot is -not- a formal setting, so put that red pen away now and stop correcting my spelling. I don't care enough to hit the spellchecker.
*AVERAGE person. Not "Drooling moron", not "Ignormus who never bothered to pay attention in school.", and not "Non-speaker of the language."
http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3357354385
R the wordz of Prince xcellently timed 4 the NPG 2B 2gether B4 the youth of 2day?
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
1 4m 4gh45t! Wh4t w0ndr0u5 b3auTy d0th 3v3 p0rtr4ay uP0n m1n3 scr33n? Sw33t sw33t 3v3, th1n3 gl0rY d0th 3ntR4nc3 m3, 1 mu5t kn0w th3 sw33t 3mbr4c3... 3r... w41t, 1n thr33 y34a5, 1 m43n... h3h h3h... d4mn y0u n3w y0rk t1m3s f0r n0t m4k1ng h3r 1m4g3 3xp4nd4bl3 1n th3 h4ll0w3d c0nfin35 0f my br0ws3r w1nd0w!
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
"This is giving the teachers headaches in trying to grade the assignments..."
Maybe I'm not seeing the teacher's dilemma here. The students use 'R' or 'U', they get negative marks, simple as that. And I have to agree with one of the earlier posts-- If they can't seperate their chatting with school, then there are other, more serious problems beyond the overuse of shorthand. In fairness, there have been times, however fleeting, that I've been tempted to "Lol!" instead of chuckle or laugh. And I routinely use "thanx". But then, I'm not being graded either (but I'm sure using LOL in a real conversation would earn a few strange looks...)
You need a FREE iPod Nano
How many of you even learned (much less recall ) that ok is not a word, the correct spelling is okay? I'll bet none of those teachers marking down new words like "r" and "u" mark down "ok".
English teachers do not define the language, use defines the language. We only need english teachers because we need a common starting point, but once we have that we need to move byond them and their rules that don't work. "r" and "u" are two very useful reforms of english spelling. I just wish that the rest of the needed reforms would come in my lifetime so I can spell correctly.
OT: 'old-timer'? Hell, I'm 39, and students just a few years older than me had to learn Latin in high school. They probably thought we were slacking on the important stuff.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
I can't believe they are just starting to give a penalty for poor spelling. I don't care how much time you spend in a chatroom, when you are writing a paper, isn't the first step a draft, and the second step to proof-read? Do we not teach proof reading to kids anymore? In this great and modern day of age, apparently we are just relying on the computer to fix our work for us, and when we have to actually write something with a pen and paper, we don't even think to proof read.
I had to proof read when I was in elementary school and high school. And I'm only 22. I just don't get it. Teachers are just too lax with the students. The basics are no longer being taught.
I have no signature
I despise replacements for the words "you" and "are" because they're only 3 letters long. RTFM, wb and RABUF are one thing, but 'u' for 'you'? how lazy can you get?!
I get pissy with people for doing it in IRC. if I do become a teacher, I will fail them, and have them(after so many warnings) write an essay on the importance of proper spelling.
As for my own spelling, well... that's just because I suck at it. get over it.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
As a card carrying geek, even though I'm heading into middle age and middle management, I find myself reading way "2 much L33T SP33X, D00D."
... "Well, like, he said she said they said that Brit'ny did what'ch call it and then..." I don't hold out much hope. "Hear what I say blood?" and "Wazzup?"
Its a reflection of the anti-establishment spirit in too many of us. (Like "Tiny Tim" McVeigh's final statement, a reading of "Bloodied but unbowed." What an ignorant ass-hole. Couldn't even come up with his own last words.)
That's bad enough, but the IM/Chat room abbreviated drivel is something else.
At issue is the unavoidable tendency of human beings to be fuckin' lazy.
This would not be a problem if typing was as fast and as unskilled as speech (ever listen to most conversations? Eaves drop on people for a couple of hours one day and you'll be going: "Yuck!")
But its not and it demands physical coordination from people who find hard enough to marshal a thought or to wrestle a meme to the ground.
Hence the rapid adoption of contractions and the birthing of illiterate drivel. Pray for rapid advances in speech recognition so that correct writing and spelling becomes as effortless as speech.
As for having some content
Still its better than some moron spewing some religious tract and extoring death.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
That said, standard (but always changing) English is still the standard. Teachers just need to be flexible. The flexibility by one teacher (u and r ok in rough drafts, but not in the final draft) was nice to see.
Another one of my pet peeves along these lines: Putting the dollar sign after a dollar amount. "This cost me 50$" instead of "This cost me $50". Again, the writer is thinking in terms of how it's spoken, not written.
Finally, the teacher is herself affected by the most insidious use of writing directly as one speaks: The use of "like" as a pause, with implied content. She says "It was like `Get with it, Bova,'" when she means "The students were thinking, 'Get with it, Bova'".
The use of like is not just incorrect, it's also potentially confusing. "She said my shoes were ugly, and I'm like 'Whatever, bitch.'" Did the speaker literally say "Whatever, bitch" to her detractor, or was it merely thought? We can't tell.
I'll leave the rant about literally vs. figuratively to another poster.
Acronyms are different from abbreviations. Name an abbreviation that is acceptable in formal written English. There aren't many, save for contractions.
Interstingly enough, netspeak has invades my speaking vocabularly, but not my writing. And i've been doing online bb's almost half my life.
;-).
When I say see you later.
I'm really thinking: "CYA"
Luckily I'm not a cartoon, so my talking comes out as a sound
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
Both slashdot and the person that posted could be up for legal trouble for copyright infringment.
If that doesn't bother you, then why don't you log on with phoney information and post the article here yourself rather than asking someone else to break the law?
Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
If you are using a computer, it isn't hard to type the entire word. Things like r -> are (or possibly our sometimes) don't save any time on a keyboard. Quite often I see abbreviations that work out only 1 character less than the actual word.
The other thing that comes hand in hand with the abbreviations are the lack of punctuation, capitals, or grammer. I have had entire e-mails with no capitals or full stops. It takes a long time to work out what is going on. And people claim they couldn't be bothered using the shift key (or whatever). Surely it takes more effort (if you ever learnt to type properly) to remember to not use the shift key?
I have kicked people off a mailing list I administer because they don't make any sense for the reasons above. I don't reply fully to e-mails, I just tell them to send it again so that I can understand it.
I also find that the people who send the mails like that tend to be quite stupid. I got an e-mail along the lines of:
"do u knw abt undergorund rails"
That was it. I asked what he meant by underground rails. The reply was like this:
"undergorund rails in croydon"
I again asked what he meant by underground rails in Croydon, as it is quite ambiguous, and the area very large. Response:
"my dad told me"
At this point, I wrote an e-mail explaining how much easier it would be for him to just type properly and explain what he meant. I think he wanted me to tell him all I knew about underground features in the area, but I couldn't be bothered because of his attitude.
Yes, there is a place for them on phones and SMS as they aren't easy to type on (even with practice, you can't do 80wpm on a numeric pad). There is also a place for acronyms, such as LOL, BTW, BRB etc. because they actually save a lot of time.
I can tell some bastard is going to send me SMS speak mails now just to wind me up...
In formal written papers using a contraction will lose you points in college.
Kintanon
Now I have to spend 17 seconds dicking around until slashdot decides to let me post the stupid comment...lalalalalal....
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
One of the the things I have always loved about the English language is its democratic elitism. Permit me to explain. Some languages, such as French, actually have a body that decides formally what consitutes the language.
English doesn't do that. English does have an elite that decides what is in the standard language, but that elite is the collection of writers, editors, and lexicographers who work with the language in the modes of cultural production. So, what Standard English is is decided by a literate elite, but membership in this literate elite is open to anyone based on merit.
But that is not all. Beneath that "high brow" crowd who write literature and scan literature for new usage, there are hundreds of thousands of idiomatic communities speaking and using untold varieties of English. These are not "Standard English," but they are living, breathing, socially functional dialects of English. From time to time, a writer of genius emerges from such a community and brings new usage, idioms, and ways of speaking into that "staid and stuffy" elite. Those portions that speak in new ways, ways that other communities of English find useful, get taken up by the English speaking world at large. Then we find these new usages showing up both in other dialect communities, and in the elite world of "Standard English."
Thus the world of Standard English is reactionary, conservative, and resistant to change, but this is as it should be. This is the force of stability that allows us to read (albeit with difficulty for some) six hundred year old Elizabethan English, like Shakespeare, and should allow English speakers six hundred years from now to read Toni Morrison or Neal Stephenson. At the same time, the vernacular throbs with creativity. Vibrant and electric new words, phrases and idioms crackle into being every day. Most are lost. Some appear only in the margins, in the throw away dialoge of television scripts, or in idiom spoken by characters in novels; mere markers in the history of the language. Some, however, merge into that conservative realm where they join such everyday poetry as "being blue," or "flight of stairs."
I've studied only a few of the world's languages, but so far English is my one true love. Latin and French have their charms for me, but English owns my mind. I treasure both the stodgy elite (which anyone may join; all one must do is add to the great literature of the English language -- no problem!), and the endless, almost frantic, creativity of everyday speakers of English.
Bearing in mind all of the foregoing, schools are not there to institutionalize the random creativity of English. That takes care of itself. They are there to be sure that we all have access to the stodgy collection of Standard English, so we may get our random creativity past the reactionary gatekeepers of the language. All good literature simultaneously reveres the language and subverts it. The most striking example, to me, is "Huckleberry Finn," the first novel with real American voices in it, as opposed to a bunch of Americans speaking more or less just like British speakers of English. Reverence and subversion.
While I still have nightmares about red inked "PV" (passive voice) all over my writing, her anal retentiveness made me a better writer. (This post notwithstanding.)
-sk
I'm a roleplay MUSHer. (As opposed to social MUSHers, the other half of our particular subspecies of text-gamers.)
I do, occasionally, try to type 'look' while talking to someone.
But... you know, not only have I never turned in a paper with an IM abbreviation on it, I don't even use IM abbreviations in IMs. I can understand using them with cellphone text messages, where each letter takes a certain amount of time, but it amazes me how the same person who spends hours every day online in a text-based world... can have no idea how to properly converse in text.
Maybe if we were to actually start beating the IMers into using something resembling real English--a few abbreviations are one thing, every other word is quite another--then they'd have less problems in school.
In fact... you know, I think this is my civic duty. Quick, someone, fetch me my beating stick!
It may sound strange, but this can have an end soon. Kids are using this "typing" slang just because it's much more easier (not about data size, but about "easiness").
Note that this "easieness" will end when typing becomes obsolete, and voice chatting becomes the standart. What will happen then?
I see two probable scenarios. People still keep typing (and probably writing) this way, creating a useless habit, that can only be explained in the historical context. Other scenario is this kind of typing dies just like many other slangs, and our grandchildren will laugh at us when we show this to them. ;o)
As Matt Growening (spelled correct?) preview. In year 3001 well spell xmas instead of christmas ;o)
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
"Spell checkers are not bad if they do not have to rely on them."
;)
...
"... but now they most definately are."
I definitely agree with you.
Languages evolves and nothing we do can change that. Look at the difference between UK english and American english. Compared to eachother UK english seems very uptight and American english as childish school yard slang.
Let the languages evolve, its perfectly normal and nothing that will end the world. My native language, swedish, has evolved so much in the last 200 years that old written swedish is hardly readable today. Since communication is so much faster today its inevitable that the evolution in the language goes much faster too. What in those days took 200 years may now take a mere 20 years.
HTTP/1.1 400
It isn't laziness, but the lack of any real typing skills
It has to be this... on IRC and in games I can easily out-type anyone using "short hand" while I type full words.
Once upon a time I was a very fast typist (>100 wpm), but it's gone down to probably around 70 wpm nowadays. Sure, that's still fast, but any touch typist should be able to type faster than I can if they aren't typing full words.
Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age
It should probably be taught shortly after writing skills. Being able to type is just as important as being able to write nowadays. I know some people will blanch at that, but take the average office worker and compare how much they have to type into a computer versus how much they have to write down on a piece of paper.
I just hope that schools have gotten out of the dark ages regarding touch typing. I recall going to a school competition around 1990. I entered into the typing competition since I knew I was a fast and accurate typist. I don't think I got more than a couple sentences done though -- I was definitely not expecting to have to deal with an electric typewriter that didn't even process line breaks properly. I spent more time being amazed at how backwards the competition was than I did actually typing.
Indeed, I concur.
Through a simple name change (and the change was viewable by ALL, mind you) I became "SkipTheOp" and galavanted around the irc chat room as if I was indeed an Op (short for 'one with operator priveleges')
It was not until a few minutes later when I harassed the piss out them all the while exclaiming "I AM A BOT" that they realized they had been 'famfoozled.'
Ahhh, to be young and dumb!
P.S.- I am a bot.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I completely agree. I took tons of AP/IB classes in preparation for college, but, arguably, the most useful class at my prep school was Typing 101. It helped me churn out papers in college, and helps me code without looking at the keys now. Not to mention the fact that one can never reach a "zen programming" state without touch-typing.
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
He started it..
I would die 4 u...
yeah yeah...
D33r MrZ. butts3x0r
Dear Mrs. Endlove,
U g0tz a k1d d4t 41n7 d01n h1z w3rK r1t3, b1zn0tch!
Your son is not completing his assignment correctly, ma'am.
h3 k33p t4lk1n L1k3 h3 41n7 g0tZ n0 c3ntz!
His manner of writing indicates a lack of formative education.
WTF?
I wonder why this might be the case?
U = p3n1s 1n U aZZ!
My experience tells me this is usually the result of poor parenting. For instance, a child's mother may spend more time with her husband or boyfriend than with her child, robbing him of important life lessons.
sux0rz 2BU!
The results of a bad upbringing reflect negatively on the responsible parent.
h0p3 y3r br4t g3tz h1z NUTZ ch0ppa 0ff!
Your son may find it difficult to complete his assignments at school, and may experience ridicule from his peers.
Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of the English language, and I think that it is a good idea to limit severe language deviations, particularly in a formal academic setting. I'm not going to endorse the substitution of 'r' and 'u' for 'are' and 'you', but simply make a point of the roll such things play in the evolution of a language.
... and it's never good news! Furthermore, it's always about primary and secondary school kids.
I'm an American, and I'm studying linguistics (amongst other things) in New Zealand. It's an interesting place to study linguistics, because New Zealand is one of the very few places (if not the only place) where there is a fairly complete aural record of the evolution from it's roots in the United Kingdom to it's modern form.
Language is a hard target to pin down. Even in countries that try to limit linguistic migration (such as France) can't slow it down significantly, even in times without huge revolutions in communication. English is one of the fastest changing, and most diverse languages on the planet, and it only takes the space of about two generations for the "proper" high culture forms of the language to change significantly.
A major shift in communication technology makes the changes occur much, much faster. The advent of radio made western urban American English the "proper" form of American English in the span of about five years. National broadcasters go through an enormous amount of training to develop that accent, as do politicians and other public figures. Listen to Clinton's speeches at the beginning and end of his term, or even how George Bush's (much ridiculed) accent has started to change.
It's expected that the Internet will have the same effect on written languages that the radio had on spoken languages. Interestingly enough, it wasn't until the advent of the newspaper that English spelling (both American and British) became more or less standardized across large geographic regions.
Ironically, the first place to hear about a significant change in language is in the editorial / opinion sections of news papers
Anyhow, I suspect that the practice of using 'oic' and 'l8r' in written English will expand dramatically over the next decade. Distasteful? Perhaps. But keep in mind that there's only one standard for language: the de facto standard.
There's pedantic opposition to Microsoft's style biases, but it's still the best grammar checker around. Microsoft Research did a good job on that thing. It's a real parser for natural language. Microsoft Research used to have a download that let you see the parse tree the grammar checker created, but it doesn't seem to be available any more.
On EFnet, you'll find that certain channels have enforced grammar. In these places, if you "lol" use "u" or "r" or even make a mistake with they're, their, there, it will not only be pointed out, but corrective action will often be taken. I'm a big supporter of this, being as IRC and other "chat" mediums are written mediums for the most part, and it's quite difficult to understand this shorthand if your english isn't terribly good, or if you're a hacker whose used to taking everything literally because it processes faster.
Some people will make the arguement that linguistics states rather plainly that a native speaker cannot ever speak a language incorrectly, and this is true. Many of these people fail to understand that typing and writing is not speaking.
If there is a God, you are an authorized representative. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
At least, it didn't start as the chat rooms. Even just a few years ago (well, ok, 7 years ago when I was in Grade 10) the vile language known as d3wd hadn't propagated fully. Most chatrooms were still havens for people who could actually communicate in properly composed English.
Where the linguistic nightmare first appeared was in games like Diablo, Ultima Online, and Everquest.
nitwit_01 tells you 'cn u plz tp me 2 wc plz'
you reply 'What's that in English?'
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Remember the whole uproar about ebonics? And how its still made fun of? The irony .. its shakesperian compared to IM-speak, and the beauty of it is that IM-speak is mostly used by the kids of the crowd that took issue with ebonics.
..
Ah, the wonderus circle of life
"Old man yells at systemd"
Parents, do you ever bother to look at your child's homework? Do you take the slightest interest in what they are studying? You are supposed to be as much a part of the learning process as the teacher, if not more so!
Yes, I am a parent. Yes, I do look at her homework. Yes, I have forced her to redo a paper I thought was poorly done. I know what she is capable of doing and it is very obvious when she is being lazy.
It pays off. She has been an honor student for the past three years (/me smuggly pats own back as if he was solely responsible).
-- Will program for bandwidth
Even though I'm very good at it, I hate spelling.
English spelling is a travesty, a point made particularly clear to me as a home-schooling parent.
In our initial studies, we determined that teaching our kids to read using a phonetic approach was probably the best. In actual practice, we did see some pretty immediate gains, the oldest two learning to read simple books in just a few short weeks.
There, however, is where progress stopped. We figured that since it was obviously working, we pounded through weeks and months of more lessons, all based on phonics. The number of exceptions, duplicate cases, and whatnot grew, and the lessons became arduous, boring, confusing, and ultimately, fruitless.
Our children lost the desire to read, and it's taken several YEARS of hard work to recover from that. (they now have, thankfully!)
Why would "thought" be spelled so differently from "hot"?
I cood slip into pyoorly fonetic spelling, but most of us will fined that hard too reed, as we're too used to the "spelling power elite's" way of doing it.
Our students spend years learning "phonetic heiroglyphics" when they could be spending this time learning stuff of value - mathematics, sociology, science and history.
Every hour you spend working on memorizing the exceptions to basic phonetic rules is an hour you could have spent playing quake, romancing your girlfriend, reading a book, or studying something useful.
But that's not what's happening, and I feel it is wrong. Millions of man-hours are wasted annually on non-phonetic reading, all to maintain the illusion for those who can spell that they are somehow "brighter".
If a purely phonic (and I do mean PURELY phonic, with no exceptions) spelling/language system were adopted, we'd have 1st grade students routinely able to read virtually any text, and always capable of writing their messages clearly and distinctly.
I feel this goal is a noble one, and this issue is one I'd happily vote for somebody to lobby.
It's just a shame, a real shame, that we waste so much on something so meaningless.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I was a TA for a third-year computing course in which essays were required, and this problem was fairly common there.
Interestingly, when I taught a first year arts course, this never cropped up at all.
If my enemy's enemy is my friend, what happens if my enemy is his own worst enemy?
0ur F47h3r, wH0 4r7 n h34V3n, h4110w3d b3 7HY n4m3, 7hy k1ngd0m c0m3, 7hy wI11 b d0n3, 0N 34r7h 4s i7 iS iN h34v3n. G1v3 u5 th15 d4y 0ur d4i1y br34d, & f0rg1v3 u5 0ur tr35p45535, 4s w3 f0rg1v3 7h05e wh0 tr35p455 4g41n5t u5. nope...thats still using old english l33t, an entire other dialect...it would be more along the lines of r f47h3r wh0 l1v3Z 1n h34v3n, wh0 0wnZ0r j00, g1v3 u5 0ur f00d, 4nd f0r6iv3n355 u5 f0r 0ur oWnZ1n9s 4nd f14m1n95, a5 w3 f0r91v3 7h053 wh0 0wnz0r 4nd f14m3z u5.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Shakespeare. Not Shakespear. Yes, his crest was someone shaking a spear, but just because his name was based on the word spear does NOT mean that you can drop the e.
Or does this "evolution" everyone's touting include lopping letters of names, now, too?
Does this mean that in bars instead of asking chicks their sign, it'll be "ASL plz".
Don't blame IRC or IM for this kind of word shortening. This practice is older than computers.
I have no idea how "l33t sp33k" came about, but I've always thought it was, at least partly, to get around the automatic filters on a lot of mail/IM/IRC sites. If the computer can't match it with a disallowed word, then it can get through, and people can still figure out what you meant.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
hate the word "hella"? I don't even know where this came from; it seemed like suddenly right around 1998 everyone I knew was using it. That stupid word needs to be forgotten.
I have typed my... everything since about 8th grade. which, whilst putting me in a horrible disposition for carpel-tunnel syndrom, renders my handwriting completely incomprehensible.
which really sucks. right now, to avoid mistakes on official government (like, say, DMV) forms, I actually have to go out and find a typewriter to type them on (you have no idea how many times i got stuff screwed up from a hand-filled official form). I am dreading the day when some massive solar-flare wipes out the entire civilization's computer resou... [flash -- bzzzzt] Checksum Error
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Mid 90's
Pedophiles welcome the continuing development of the Information Superhighyway.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
It's the same as slang. There are cases where you allow it, but
you have to make darn sure they know the difference between that
and standard formal usage. It goes along with teaching them to
cite sources and follow a consistent style (e.g., MLA, but in the
lower grades you start simple by just making them doublespace, then
as the grades go by you add more involved requirements) and avoid
the second person (and, in research work, the first person as well).
It's not that the slang (or the 1337 speak) is wrong _per se_ but
that it is out of place in some contexts, and so students must
learn to avoid it at times.
Journalists learn to write in a style that avoids passive voice
like the plague; researchers use the passive voice as a sort of
tonic to cure the ills of first and second person. Field jargon
is necessary in technical writing but is often better avoided in
writing intended for laypersons. It's all about context. Yes,
schools should of course be teaching students this concept.
Then you have artistic license, wherein it is occasionally useful
to violate deliberately the usual rules of a given context for
effect, but you can't do that effectively until you have mastered
the usual rules. For example, clever use of sarcasm in a formal
research document is an art not easily learned, because it requires
complete mastery of both the subtle nuances of sarcasm and the
formal style of research documentation, as well as an excellent
sense of timing. Pulling it off effectively is neigh unto genius.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Anybody see Jay Leno yesterday. He did a Jaywalking segment where he asked people questions about American History. He asked one TEACHER who said "The British are coming!"? Her answer...the south! He asked her who they told and she said the other side. The North? yes. So, the South ran up to the North yelling the British are coming! Would that not be the funniest thing in the world to see. Might be good strategy, the north would be laughing to hard to fight. Another high school government teacher was asked who arrived first, the pilgrims or Columbus. She made Jay give his answer first, Columbus. She then adamantly told him he was wrong, it was the pilgrims. So the chronology of 13 colonies is that the english pilgrims came and settled, then Columbus became the first englishman to discover America. Apparently the pilgrims were just roque nomads. Straight from the mouth of a government teacher. Those aren't even the worst example, but the worst examples weren't teachers. But basically the future looks dim if these non-english speaking kids are being taught by too many people like the teachers above. Do you think Dubya would mind if I formed my own little country on my land before the current crop of kids gets into office? That's all I need is an official government memorandum reading: A11 UR R1GH7'5 R BL0N6 70 US!
I can see it now:
Note on a students assignment:
"Learn to FSCKING spell!!!1!11!".
Oh, the irony.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Personally, I find that l33t sp33k annoys the crap out of me. It's marginally acceptable in SMS messages, but really doesn't belong anywhere else imo. I don't even use it myself in SMS' because my phone as T9 input and I can type messages in pretty damn quickly. ;) :)
An interesting meme I wanted to throw down is that language is more than just communication, it's a formal way of constructing ideas not only for communication to others, but also in our own minds; Much in the way that mathematics has it's own language for the formulation and transmission of concepts.
If common English starts to lose it's formal structure and we descend into some kind of Taxilinga, I will be worried that the ability to formalise and construct logical thought patterns will be lost to some people (I guess it probably already is lost to people who say 'like' and 'know what I'z sayin' 4 times a sentence
I'm hanging on to Queen's English until the day I die either way
Chris "Ng" Jones
cmsj@tenshu.net
www.tenshu.net
You're welcome.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
The important thing about Huck Finn (besides it being a novel) is that Twain knew the difference between a tale told in Huck's voice and a factual essay, and could write in either mode. A student would get no credit from me for breaking a rule of written communication unless he/she both understood the rules and understood when it was okay to break them.
|\/|y |)0g 8 17.
The long and short is that kids today are too easily learning things before the education system can get to them. There isn't a typing class until high school in most areas. Hell, I see many kids around seven that type 30+ wpm. They learn to read online via chat rooms, websites, and other methods before they are assigned Dick and Jane or Pug. Then, the intelligent children are asked to slow down so those without computers can catch up without feeling embarassment. This is sad, and it is why many Asian and European countries continually kick the US' ass in youth aptitude.
Let the kids that excel do just that. While I think "net speak" should be counted as incorrect English for papers submitted, the knowledge the kid posesses to use the chat rooms, computer, etc., should be commended.
Click here or here.
>> Same thing with Ebonics!
The ebonics "uproar" was over a program to *use* local vernacular like Ebonics to *teach* proper English. Which is what the teachers in the article appear to be doing with 133t speak.
Though you may not have been able to tell from the media coverage, no one ever suggested that Ebonics be taught as an actual language.
I understand 'cuz,' but what's with the 'wuz'? It's the same amount of letters as 'was', so what's the point?
I blame hooked on phonics.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
We can assume that the high school kids who write this way are the ones who spend the most time on the computer, which are typically the affluent. The affluent typically end up in college and whoa baby are they going to be surprised when their English 101 professor is 60 years old and doesn't give a rats ass about how they do it on the internet. They're are going go get their butts kicked by college English professors. That is why this is problem. So for those of us whose had to actually learn spelling and grammar, and who took typing class in high school on actual typewriters, we can be relieved to know that college professors will set these kids straight.
You have been selected to represent the school at the national grammar rodeo at the Sheraton Hotel in Canada.
All my money went to Nigeria and all I got was this lousy sig. . .
... of this story is that there are so many posts along thw lines of the kids of today ... when you sitback and realize the forum you have chosen to put your point across is slashdot, not exactly know for it's great adherance to everyday grammer.
you misspelled piece.
-- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
No, that's illiteracy. most people with a decent typing speed don't waste brain power on l33tsp33k.
As an aside, how many people who write LOL really laugh out loud? It's spooky how many people will sit there and write lol, or rofl or lmao, and be sitting there stoically(spelling on that last word?).
the thought that l33t sp33k could become the language of the future is rather frightening, but since the masses generally decide the direction of language, we could be witnessing the next evolution of the language.
It's been a long time.
LOL! Geez... I haven't laughed that hard at a /. post since the OOG the caveman days (where da hell is the OOGster anyway?) -- but me with no mods.
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
I'm on first name terms with the guy -- he's a Chas.
Chucky Dickens, indeed...hmf!
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Next thing you know they won't teach kids how to start a campfire with 2 sticks in school anymore. Everyone will rely on newfangled inventions like matches and lighters. Then what will happen if a big flood comes and all the lighters and matches wash away????
Think of the children!
- Toby
When going threw school. I was never taught grammer per say I was just told when I was using bad grammer, then they would have me fix it over and over again, untill by change I get it right, or if they gave up and told me what the correct order was. But I was never taught grammer (and I am sure it shows) they never explained to me why words are organized the way they are they just said this is the way for these words. They barly taught me the rules for spelling they just gave me a list of words to memorize for a test. More then anything else a student should learn the rules of grammer and spelling. But they dont do that. So this latest rash of L33t speach is basicly come to show the failure in the teaching systems. Kids dont learn grammer and spelling in schools so the learn it off the streats and the chatrooms. English class is taught once a day every 45 minutes. People are interacting with other people on chat rooms or where ever for far longer then that normally. Except for just failing a person for having bad grammer on the test. Go over it with him explain
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Actually, there is a useful semantic difference between 'cool' and 'kewl'.
'Cool' is something the speaker approves of. "Kewl" is something the speaker presumes a 12-year-old might approve of.
Example.
"Why would anyone go see that film?"
"Because there are explosions, and explosions are kewl, silly."
"Feh. Whatever. Want me to drop by tonight and bring the tapes I just bought?"
"Yeah, that would be cool."
-- I'm not evil, I'm
I know most geeks couldn't get their eyes off the the photo of the girl, but did anybody notice the caption under it?
INGRAINED - Eve Brecker, 15, of Montclair, N.J., uses instant-messaging shorthand unconsciously in essays.
So if they do it unconsciously, it means they do in their sleep or in a coma. If they do it subconsiously, they are performing a learned skill without requiring conscious, cognitive effort. I think somebody was unconscious while writing this article.
I suppose this happens with every new slang "dialect" that pops up, but, as a once-and-former teacher, I'd tell my kids they don't get to break the rules until they convince me they know the rules. I might also be tempted to lay on some serious dead-tree reading to yank them away from the keyboard.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
It plagues schoolchildren? They obviously don't read Slashdot, or talk to anyone online.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
In word the feature is called AutoText. This is the feature that turns "thier" into "their" as you type. I know some people rant about this being annoying in some cases, but the important aspect of it here is that it is configurable.
All these people need to do is to add the l33t words to their AutoCorrect setup. Have it convert "u" to "you", and "wuz" to "was" and so on. To take it one step further, the teachers could just create a prefab template that contains the most common ones and hand it out. Then you can choose Tools | Templates and Add-Ins... and click Organizer... to bring up a dialog that lets you (among other things) copy AutoText between files. Just copy them to your normal.dot (default template) and you are done.
I am sure other word processors have similar features, someone chime in with the procedures for those if you wish.
Not only does this fix the problem, but the student gets to see the substitutions as they type so they get the reinforcement of what the correct English form is.
is when you misspell "l33t" as "l77t".
The shareholder is always right.
I R F41L 3ngl1sh?? Th4t u|\|p0ss1bl3
Students sometimes don't even realize they use the chat room shorthand until it's pointed out to them, because that method of chatting has become second nature to them."
/. learned) that must be adhered to!
If these students are unaware they are making a shortcut then they have been so poorly taught that their teachers should be fired or they are so stupid they should be sterilized and handed brooms.
One time during a white board presentation I accidentally slipped into Graffiti and it has never happened since.
Look no one is learning anything in school. Maybe you are opened up to a new idea but you learn becuase YOU learn, not becuase you are taught. School is about disipline and taxes. The taxes are going to happen anyway. Writing in proper English is a disipline (that I wish the editors of
English uber alles!
This
I'm studying secondary ed for english and have an MA in linguistics and I have no problem with kids using whatever form of language they like, from vapid mall talk to gruff hiphop dialects and abbreviated chat room speech, as long as they understand the reason for different forms of speech.
Speech forms are a function of society, and should by no means ever be considered set in stone or appropriate. If you bring your patent office speech out to the skate park, you're going to get beat, because in this group the accepted form of speech is "lazy." As a more simplified example, try speaking without appreviations for a day...use CAN NOT and AM NOT and WILL NOT. Watch the strange looks you get.
I think the problem here is that kids aren't necessarily realizing the difference, and this is going to get them into trouble in the business/real world. There are some simple adjustments one can make in ones' speech which make it more neutral, and once made it's amazing how one can fit in and avoid a lot of unfortunate situations.
It's the role of the schools to teach students this neutral speech (they'll pick up street languages on their own). It is not the school's job to "break habits" a person picks up to help them exist. If abbreviating "Your" to "Ur" makes a person enjoy writing more, establish a voice and express themselves well, I have no problem with letting them do so -- as long as they can use a neutral form when required to do so (say, in a formal writing assignment).
Hey freaks: now you're ju
0wr F4th3R, wh0 0wnz h34\/3n, j00 r0x0rs! M4y 4|| 0wr b4s3 s0m3d4y Bl0ng t0 j00! M4y j00 0wn 34rth juss |1|3 j00 0wn h34\/3n. G1v3 us th1s d4y 0wr w4r3z, mp3z, 'n pr0n thr0ugh a ph4t |. 4nd cut us s0m3 sl4ck wh3n w3 4ct lik3 n00b l4m3rz, juss 4s w3 g1v3 n00bz 4 l34rn1n wh3n th3y l4m3 2 us. Pl34s3 d0n't l3t us 0wn s0m3 p00r d00d'z b0x3n wh3n w3'r3 t00 p1ss3d t0 th1nk 4b0ut wh4t's r1ght 4nd wr0ng, 4nd 1f j00 c0uld k33p th3 f3i 0ff 0wr b4ckz, w3'd 'pr3c14t3 1t. F0r j00 0wn 4ll 0wr b0x3n 43v3r 4nd 3v3r, 4m3n!
:)
Now if that's not as incomprehensible as old English, I don't know what is.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
I can understand where these students are coming from.
When I was in elementary school, I found a secret decoder wheel in a box of... (checks box on shelf) Lucky Charms. I got so used to using it that I began encoding all my homework without thinking about it. My teachers didn't mind so long as I provided them with a secret decoder wheel of their own.
I was reading about encryption when I was in high school, and I would inadvertently switch into encoded mode, change the binary text to ASCII and write the corresponding binary string of numbers. Boy, was my English teacher mad when I turned in 20-page-long handwritten short essays... especially when I explained that the key was "mrs<omitted>sucks"
Still, the unencoded version used proper spelling and grammar, so there wasn't much she could do about it -- except send me to the principal's office. If these kids want to protect their intellectual property by encoding it (in their case, they're using L33t speak), they should at least adhere to proper grammar and spelling.
</sarcasm>
First things first: People who shortcut words like 'to' into '2' are about five operative brain cells away from going flatline. Letting the fallacy slip into their schoolwork is absolutely ridiculous.
If you use some sort of instant messaging, the next time someone starts feeding 'u' a bunch of gibberish, tell them to stop it when they type IM's or email to you. If they don't stop, stop communicating with them online.
What people are really doing here is trying to save time when typing. Some people cannot type quickly despite extensive practice. Before our written language dissolves into a bunch of phonemes all expressed by single written characters (Hiragana anyone?), what we ought to do is promote the use of typing shortcut programs that automatically expand shortcut typings into complete words. This idea is by no means new, and typing shortcut applications predate 16-bit processors.
In the next version of AIM, AOL should include such a typing expander and the default install should have it turned ON. The problem would be solved -- most o/t ppl would b 2 stupid 2 know how 2 turn it off -- as evidenced by their illiteracy.
So the solution isn't to teach them how to spell, but how to actually type at some speed faster than 15wpm.
I work in tech support (one of many hats) and I've noticed an interesting correlation - newbies young and old don't know how to touch type. Of course, I doubt that many people who long ago learned to type on a manual or electric typewriter haven't long since switched to a computer, in no small part because of how word processing capabilities make the job a whole lot easier.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
It's funny you mention The Lord's Prayer, because someone has actually created a shorter-than-160 chars SMS version, here it is:
Add that to your list and imagine the future scholars who will read it and study it. It does capture the essence of the Lord's Prayer, the same as the others.
I read about this in a newsletter I get, here's a page about it. He also makes a good point about how we shouldn't have to change our behavior for machines, it should be the other way around.
Who thinks that language has different and appropriate forms for different settings.
School papers of the research type are written with proper english, no contractions and no slang or dialouge. Sentence structure is formal and dry, and often if there is a long way of saying something, the long was is used (i.e So, in conclusion" as compared to "Therefore")
School papers of the creative writing style are written according to to paper and the context. Speech is written as speech, narration is written as proper english, maybe with contractions as appropriate.
Speech, is varried depending on the situation, and it's acceptability arround the present company.
Online talk is delegated into two sections:
1)Serious ideas and posts, written similar to a school paper.
2) Chat and shorthand used for joke posts (like the 1337 Lord's Prayer that was classic), and chats between friends.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
You and the other children are going to have to learn to spell and write like normal people if you want other normal people (your professors in college, for instance) to take the time to read and grade what you hand in.
The stupid excuses you are making to cover up your lack of effort would be similar to a math student inventing their own rules about numbers so that calculations could be made more easily. Stop being so whiny and lazy.
SO it's a new issue at school, but hardly a terrible one.
:)" and all the other stupid misspellings.
Teachers have had to deal with slang all the time.
To those of us who basically went through most or all of primary/secondary school without the internet, it makes us ill to see people saying "how R U doing
Dood. Kool. Etc.
But to people who have, perhaps, been chatting online as long as they have been reading and writing, it's a different matter.. to them, it's a much bigger part of their world during the learnign process.
yeah well, "chat room speak" isn't valid english either. You mean "Sounds like chat room language" at the very least or "I believe that is a colloquialism typically found in text based communications". ;P
Or, you could just crawl into a hole and die, I'd be happy with that
Chris "Ng" Jones
cmsj@tenshu.net
www.tenshu.net
Fan, as in "sports fan." The word started a long time ago as an abbreviation of "fanatic."
- - - -
The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
I don't know what kind of a school you went to, but the practice of no contractions on formal papers has been standard practice to me since late high school, and all through college. Points would definitely be subtracted for using informal speech in a formal essay.
And if you really think that your two sentences mean different things, or have different tone, you should consider asking for a refund for your schooling. You're confusing written word and actual speech, where you may have put more emphasis on the "not". In writing, these sentences are identical, except for the contraction difference.
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
An interesting "fork" of the English language is Charles Ogden's Basic English . Basic English is like a Esperanto for the real world. Ogden wanted to create a small, consistent, non-redundant subset of the English language that would help foreigners quickly adapt to an English-speaking country. His languages contains just 850 English words of use in everyday conversations. He claims that it takes seven years to learn polished English, seven months to learn Esperanto, and only one month to learn Basic English.
I wish someone would do the same for other languages, such as Spanish. I guess you could just translate the Basic English dictionary to Spanish, but that does not address consistent grammatical rules like Ogden's book did when designing Basic English.
cpeterso
And it doesn't really have anything to do with typing speed, I type faster than I think... I still don't type as fast as I speak, I know that from trying to type up interviews, but it's certainly more than fast enough to do a normal conversation either way, and I can type properly, when I want to. But I use u for you, r for are, k for ok when chatting online, it's just more common, quite simply.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Using U for You and R for are isn't leet speak, its just ignorant slang.. Now, if they were using 3's for E's and 7's for T's then it would truly be '1337 5p34k.
Does this mean I may no longer distinguish between a "holiday" where everyone is off from work and a "vacation" where only I'm off?
;>
Must I now cease to distinguish between soccer and football by using the same word for both?
How about my automobile? Shall I now call the hood the "bonnet" and refer the trunk as the "boot"?
Interestingly, I noticed with surprise that the previous anonymous poster didn't use the word "bugger."
I just couldn't resist.
Vortran out
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
Not likely...Most of the people using this form of *ahem* communication are more likely to be AOL users and similarly intelligent forms of life. Besides which, the 'bonics' part comes from 'ebonics' which derives from 'ebony' meaning, black. So really, if you were going to name it off of 'nerd' then it would be 'nerdics'. Since it's really related to ignorant communication, I'd rather call it 'idiotics' ;)
What is your Slash Rating?
I can read most l33t, but could somebody tell me what the word "l33t" actually means?
(With apologies - I didn't want to get into extended characters.)
Yes, but would we have cared if you said the above? I'm comfortable with leetspeek. (We used to call them kewl d00dz - with sarcasm.) I still don't like it. I use punctuation when I type. Even in an instant messenger application. I don't whip out the grammar checker or spell checker when I bang something out on Slashdot. I also don't take a great deal of care when using instant messaging applications. We need children that have the ability to quickly type a somewhat coherent memo. Think about it. Most of the IM shortcuts don't translate into the sort of language you'd want in a paper anyhow. OMG? LOL? ROFLMAO? ASL? BRB?
So true. While the slashdot readership is most often amused by those whose environmental declivity is technology, it's important that these children learn to function in as many environments as possible. In fact, children need that flexibility even more than adults. They have to work their way up in life. I probably wouldn't have too much trouble finding a job in my field, even if I submitted a résumé of only passable quality. However, a younger person, with no experience, no references, and no connections would likely find a weak résumé a hinderance. They don't need acceptance from their peer group, they need acceptance from their elders at that point, because the person hiring a new, green worker is usually older.
My position is that while leetspeak may have its place, it isn't in the classroom.
That's good. Quite good. I think I might quote you on that one.
There is no issue here. You either do the work corectly, and that means by the school's/teacher's standards, or you get dinged for it.
I used to work for a nursing school. One of the first semester computerized tests raquired that all numerical answers be entered to the first decimal point. The program would not accepts "2" for "2.0". You were either right, or wrong. Period.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Okay. This is FUD. Not that there was any shortage of FUD surrounding this issue. The idea was that there was a group of people that had an extremely poor grasp of the language. They spoke in a somewhat mutually common manner. There was little funding in areas where these english shortcomings were found. At the same time, there were funding programs for teaching english as a second language to students. By declaring Ebonics a language, needed funding could be made available.
I don't know if there were people that opposed the idea, or if people just didn't get it, but this is the point when all hell, or at least a very sizeable portion, broke loose.
d00d, U g0t @ F!
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
"Perhaps it should become a requirement to teach kids to touch-type at an earlier age."
It is. That was a fun class. The whole point of that class was to give the teacher as much of a headache as possible. Those of us in the know would leave a surprise on the computer when we left and then teach all the other kids how to do the same.
I was in sixth grade and I had pages of RAM being printed to the screen when I left the classroom on our Apple IIe's. The teacher was bitch though--she deserved it.
I had a TA in a graduate-level numerical analysis course post this to a solutions page:
"For 1a u can use other methods like lagrange interpolation too and solve the equations by hand. For 2a u have to give the resulting set of equations that represent the spline - obtained by using the method in text or notes. If u have other questions about the solutions to this hw, send me a mail . I'll add the answers to this page or reply you."
Granted, his first language isn't English, but come on! Spell out the word 'you!' It's two more letters!
I fail to see what the big deal is about teachers grading down misspellings in papers (which is about all this amounts to). I always got an automatic %10 off in my highschool papers when I misspelled words like "their" (never could get the hang of all the stupid "i before e" rules. So if someone misspells "you" as "u", I don't really see the difference.
Perhaps the differece is that the kids are doing this on purpose, but I don't think that matters. It certianly would have been the height of arrogance on my part to declare all i and e combos will be spelled "ie", and then get ticked when the teacher knocked me down for misspelling "neighbor".
1) Using numbers instead of letters is not a time saving technique. It's complicated and current keyboards make it a 'stretch'. (Those 3,4,5 and 7 keys are waaay off the 'home' row!) Indeed, 'leet' speak is used specifically to set people apart and stand one's turf in an age where being something apart from the establishment is really important. Though, it's so bloody juvenile! It's akin to spray painting walls with your 'tag' and by whatever a tattoo or piercing once denoted before such things became just another dipshit lemming affectation. (Hint: When more than 5% of the population adopt a trend, it slips from 'cool' to 'pathetic' really fast. Might as well wear a fucking Nike swish at this point. --Too bad those tattoos are permanent, eh?) Anyway, 'Leet' speak is about conveying attitude, and means nothing beyond that. Most of it will pass same as all that cute jargon from the fifties, daddio, --and the 1910's, what what?
In any case, I don't think anybody uses 'leet' speak for real anymore anyway. It's turned into a square-ball's old fogey conversation topic, (yes, I'm talking to you). All the original users have moved right the fuck on.
2) Sure, language is whatever written or spoken sequence is good for getting ideas across. So 'U' instead of 'You' is fine. It works. We all get it, so get over it. However, those who use such simplifications exclusively are doing themselves a disservice because. .
3) POWER is the invisible factor here.
Twit-child who honestly doesn't know how to spell 'You', or who doesn't know when or why to capitalize, or who simply doesn't know how to construct words and sentences according to classic spelling and grammatical rules, is quite simply not going to get the respect s/he needs from the professional world in order to gain power in the higher rankings of society.
The fact of the matter is that there are millions of people who, upon receiving any correspondence littered with 'new & improved' spellings, are going to judge the sender ignorant, lazy and kinda slow.
The way things stand today, by knowing how to command written language with power and agility, one will ALWAYS have a much more successful time in dealing with banks, landlords, schools, government and businesses, -and all their fellow humans in any kind of written forum. Despite the logic behind new language validity, the impulse when one sees 'newspeak' is to think, "Fuck you, Loser." --And while you may want that on occassion, (there is power in everything), it's retarded not to be able to switch styles at a moment's notice. Why limit yourself?
So learn your ABC's kids. If not, chances are somebody will do worse than hurt you, (which they'll certainly try to do as well!). --They'll laugh at you with hate while you sink.
Lacking the facility to read and write properly is a one-way ticket to lower-class slavery.
Fantastic Lad
What is efficiency but applied lazyness?
I should have specified that I was talking completely about formal non creative writing. But yes, every one that I know of who has been to college was told in their Lit 101 and 102 classes that you DO NOT use contractions in formal works.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
There were 8th grade students in my Middle School who could not multiply on paper because they were provided with calculators, as to not slow down the rest of the class
...this is lazy short hand...
While I see your point, I ask you -- can you, a presumably educated sort, calculated square roots on paper? At one point, doing so was considered a normal, required part of a mathematics curriculum. My mother was required to learn how to do this process, and it would have been unthinkable for anyone to not know how to do this at one point. Yet most people are no longer taught this process, and while I could probably figure something out that would work, I don't know exactly what the proper method is.
So you moved an entire section of something from the heads of students into a calculator. Without that calculator, they'd be helpless to do that sort of math.
Granted, multiplication is a lot more common than square roots. However, as devices proliferate more and more, cell phones are *always* with their owner and frequently have calculator functions, and we get close to the dawn of simple subdermal implanted computers, you have to ask yourself -- what, exactly, must be in the brain?
So the students are doing better Huffman on the language -- assigning shorter sequences to commonly used words. Languages warp and mutate. At one point, English didn't have contractions. Few people correct the use of "who" and "whom" any more, or worry about ending a sentence in a preposition.
May we never see th
If you believe that education only boils down to being able to find things, you've fallen prey to one of the Internet-generation fallacies.
Being able to find things is a key skill. Being able to harness technology is a key skill. Being able to operate when that technology is broken, when you don't trust the technology and need to verify its results, or when you need to get something done faster, these are all also important.
Also, having an arsenal of key commands/techniques/etc. ready at hand (ie in memory) isn't going to damage your productivity any. But the inability to recall things if you don't happen to have your search resources or your fancy-tech-gizmo solutions handy might just be a productivity impediment.
Disciplining the mind and memory and making them power tools (instead of lazy kiddie toys) is part of a more general process of making yourself a complete, capable, and valuable member of society and a good person to have handy in a work situation. Being less sharp isn't ever really an asset.
Why is it that the development of the human mind (something we know a lot about now and which has been demonstrated to have huge calculational and mnemonic capabilities) is considered somehow an archaic hobby? Is the mental effort involved really that painful?
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
My policy is that GUIs (like calculators) are a luxury, and not a requirement. In my company, you WILL understand how things work at the most primitive of levels (command line, vi, etc.).
I don't buy this. You can make the policy, and to some degree it's still possible to keep this, but it's doomed to failure. (The sole exception is if you have a troubleshooter, where knowing as much as possible under the hood is helpful, but becoming less and less possible.)
First of all, like it or not, the GUI *is* an alternative tool on most systems. If the GUI is feature complete, who cares if someone needs the GUI? You're hiring them to get the database work done, not to do so with a particular tool.
Second, this policy is semi-inane. If the GUI presents a particular prohibitive issue, then you'd have a reason to ban reliance upon it. If you want to factor that $40K of software in as a minus to her value, then do so. But a flat out, no exceptions policy is silly.
Third, *you* may feel great that you know your command line tools...but at some level, your knowledge breaks down as well. There just isn't any point or any way of completely understanding a field any more. Specialization has become key. You don't "know physics", you know a particular small area of it. A carpenter can make houses with nails, but probably has no idea how to mine, refine, and forge the ore necessary to make the nails. No computer scientist, no network admin, knows everything *down to the metal*.
The point is that factoring in this lack of skills is reasonable, but a flat out ban seems wrong.
May we never see th
I find this comment on the impurity of language quite entertaining, once you factor in your signature.
May we never see th
Carly let go all the remaining calculator engineers. No more new models after the current ones.
Stupid CEO.
May we never see th
Start teaching kids very young, I mean like kindergarden/first grade to type well, and to type fast. Drill the correct encoding of enlish into them before they even start to get into the "IM culture".
No one would use those abriviations if they could type at a resonable rate.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I'm for ditching cursive and teaching typing instead. I have never been asked once to submit something in cursive in my four years at college. All my papers have to be typed, but there is an occasional prof who will allow PRINTING. No cursive allowed. Cursive is an art, not a communication tool.
The only people I know that have a hard time printing are my mom and Grandma, yet cursive is still being taught in public schools instead of typing. What a waste.
Everytime you look at porn a devil gets their horns.
The was very stupid.
It is true:
you only cheated yourself.
-no broken link
last year my English class had 2 do a slideshow on Henry V (play not the king)(Shakespeare) and for fun my group made a l337 version. We mistakenly gave the wrong one to our teacher. There were things like this all though it: (own dialect of 1337 in some places)
|)13 |=|23|\|(|-|135 ! (Die Frenchies die!)
r0x0r'd ur b0x0r5! (Rocked your boxor's! (kicked butt))
Needless to say our teacher though the file was corrupt and gave us an extension! lol
Back when I was 13 (about 8 years ago), I was coming onto the scene of instant message and chat room chatting. I remember how much it would piss me off when I saw people substituting numbers and letters for complet words and strings of words. I would ask them why they did that, and usually they said, "it gets the point across qwicker." Ok, how much quicker is it to type "you" than "u"... to the experienced typist, it's negligable. But obviously, these kids spend hours and hours hovering above the keyboard, but still type with one or two fingers, so for them, yes, it may be faster. So, a possible partial solution for this, would be to actually teach these kids how to type!
Anakin's rage raged through his raging rage. The raging rage raged ragingly raging.
Or something like that. (:
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
When I'm writing stuff online, I use a very different form of "english". I still don't fall into the trap of "u" and "r", because that's just laziness. I *have* been caught using the shorthand "ppl", but that's about it. I once wrote a psychology paper in which I used "ppl" two or three times. I got an A on the paper, the teacher didn't even notice (or care to point out) the shorthand. I didn't notice it until I got it back. Whoops.
In Everquest, I play a cleric. This means I can resurrect (res/rez) other characters. I'm pretty mean about it, though. I will ONLY help them if they can bother to type out "can you res me please?" or something to that effect. "can u rez me plz" is just laziness pure and simple.
I don't like seeing it online, and I would *HATE* to see it as a teacher. I'll have to ask one of my teacher friends if this is really all that common. Hrmm.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
I believe that students should be taught a standarized form of English in the classroom. It's simply the best way to ensure effective communication with a wide range of people(assuming they too have learned this standard). That said, I think that the methods and methodologies of American educators need serious rethinking.
I wonder if anyone reading Slashdot remembers the snafu over "Ebonics" from a number of years ago. Sometime in the 90's a school board in Oakland decided that it might be a good idea to recognize African American English(AAE)as a language spoken by a large percentage of its student body, and to educate teachers on how to effectively communicate with students. The Media(tm) had an uproar over it, and assailed them for trying to teach "Ebonics" as a foreign language. Much like Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders was trying to "teach children Masturbation", but I digress. I don't remember much about the incident as a teen, but I do remember the overbearing attitudes of my white peers and neighbors, which seemed to center around something like
"Why can't those damn black kids speak proper english like us?"
Linguistically speaking, AAE is a structurally and intellectually valid language, featuring complex syntax, pronunciation and grammar rules just like any other. I don't have the time or the resources to go into it, so I'll point you here. The truth of the matter is that the culturally and economically elite have been using standardized language to assert their hegemony over society for years, and the same true in America as it was in the initial triangle between Oxford, Cambridge and London. Students in America are teased, ridiculed and insulted for the use of valid dialects in ordinary speech. If you're a white American reader, chances are spectacular that you grew up speaking standard English in the home. Well, how convenient for you. The real point of an English class is not to get students speaking standard English natively or ordinarily, but simply to afford them the ability to use it when necessary (Higher education, job interviews, etc etc). The Oakland schoolboard's original idea was to make it easier for this to occur; teachers would be able to show comparisons between AAE and standard English, and help students learn what they need to change where and when.
Instead our educators(and much of the slashdot readership)assert their supposed superiority by scoffing at the "idiocy" and "childishness" of non standard language features. So while I'm not going to make any claims that l33t is a full featured language, perhaps teachers should try teaching children what it is, why it exists, and how it differs from standard English. Encourage kids to learn and use a standard dialect for specific skills, but don't simply punish them as though their deliberately trying to pollute the language. Sometimes I think gradeschool needs basic linguistics classes just so kids can learn why their English teachers are being such assholes to them.
I totally agree with you on the sillyness of the word football to refer to the American game with regard to the fact that it has little or nothing to do with using one's feet.
However, linguistically, I prefer to have separate words to provide a means of clrifying meaning. Soccer/football (which is how Australians refer to the games) gives me the tool I need to be clear in language.
I'd be perfectly happy to call soccer football if another name were given to football (the U.S. version). I also concede that the original application of the term "football" to the U.S. game was an act of theivery and rather uncreative on the part of those who committed it. I fortunately was not involved so I cannot accept blame.
If I had wings on my car, I wouldn't need to worry about passing/driving on the left/right! I'd just fly over everyone!
Vortran out
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
fucking genius - geat post man. completely unintelligble at the end but highly entertaining.
well i've never read a page of ulysses so i can't comment on it - after reading portrait of the artist as a young man at school, my next experience of joyce was a couple of years ago where i did actually read the whole of finnegans wake to myself out loud
it was a revelatory experience - i do not pretend to understand even 5% of the book, however once, twice or three times a page perhaps, one 'gets' the word play or the wordful insight, and that can be very funny or profound or usually both - there are passages in the book which are a transcendental experience to read - sorry, that sounds pretentious but i have not had the same experience reading any other book - so in short i strongly recommend it (and i did the book a disservice by suggesting it as some sort of counter punishment in my previous post)
i was led to read finnegans wake after reading marshall mcluhan who was a hugh joyce fan and used many finnegans wake excerpts in his book understanding media to expound upon his own thesis
finally, i've never read jack london however i might check him out on your recommendation - i do however remember a passage in nancy mitford's the pursuit of love concerning uncle matthew (lord alconleigh) who was