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HP to Heavily Support and Invest in .Net
Dr.Stress writes: "CNet is reporting 'Hewlett-Packard and Microsoft plan to invest $50 million in a joint effort to sell corporate customers on the software giant's .Net Web services efforts....HP plans to devote 3,000 consultants from its HP Services unit to the effort and also train 5,000 people in its sales and support staff.' Microsoft will provide additional installation support, and the companies will jointly market .Net services. This was announced previously, but this article contains a few more details. Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??)."
I thought HP was getting involved towards the linux side... hopefully their linux support will continue!
Blame compaq for this closeness. I believe compaq was always close to M$ anyway.
:-)
Yohoo, first post and not a troll
What's under yellowstone?
grammar seems a bit poor in the title....
ZDNet article
I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??)
Well if memory serves, MS will use HP for as long as it takes to get its own team together, then screw them over. Of course, MS may really value the partnership, and have absolutely no ulterior motiv...... sorry, I'm laughing too hard to finish!!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Caldera bought SCO and turned into SCO. HP bought Compaq and turned into Compaq. It is not that unusual.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
After thrashing Lucent and closing entire divisions of HP, I see Carly Fiorina is again at it!
No wonder they got rid of Bruce Perens...
Look, I worked at HP during the early and mid 90's. Let me tell you, cozying up to Microsoft is nothing new. Investing in Microsoft has been the stealth initiative of MANY of the ladder-climbers at HP. During my stay at HP, Rick Beluzzo was the big Microsoft pusher (ask me if I'm surprised he ended up WORKING for Microsoft in the end).
HP's downward slide didn't start with Carly, nor did it start with the merger--it started a LONG time ago, when the upper eschelons were taken over by MBA-types who thought that, instead of HP innovating, it would be MUCH easier to cozy up to the dominant monopoly.
Frankly, I'm sure your managers would have an opinion about you espousing your opinions on Slashdot like this.
This sounds just like another brilliant move by Carly Fiorina, after shutting down entire HP divisions (lab instruments and calculators among others).
However, history teaches that too close an alliance with MS bear a bitter fruit (think IBM)
I wonder what *we* could do against these corporate greedy b*startds...
Heavely???? 50M?? it is heavely? so what about the 1000M of IBM on Linux? ;-)
"I will be nice when I can develop things.."
why are you a bastard now?
Okay, now that I did the unbelievable by posting the second message which not only was not a troll, but also pinpointed the cause of this change in HP policy, there is a related story on ZDNET on this
Okay, now that I did the unbelievable by posting the second message which not only was not a troll, but also pinpointed the cause of this change in HP policy, there is a related story on ZDNET. To quote from the article:
"Our relationship has significantly improved," Microsoft group vice president Jim Allchin told CNET News.com earlier this month.
Asked if the Compaq influence was the leading factor, Allchin said, "I suspect that's a large part of it."
So now you know why this happened.
What's under yellowstone?
It seems like this is a part of HP's plan to 'do an IBM', i.e. become a provider of complete solutions (HW+SW+Consulting). They've got the HW and consulting, but still need a big SW platform to sell and promote.
As for scaryness, yes it is a threat to the freedom online. We have to hope that Liberty Alliance will succeed and that average Joe will become aware of the lack of integrity this type of solutions can result in.
I used to work for Compaq who were very good at buddying up to everyone - Oracle, M$, Sun, Linux, etc... And considering Compaq accounts for a sizeable chunk of the new HP it's not surprising that they have taken this stance. It doesn't mean that HP won't stop competing with M$ by shipping *nix boxes.
Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately
Then do something about it.
You remind me of the people who whine about the government, but never get out to the polls on voting day. What have you done about it? If you're alarmed by the closeness with Microsoft, then either you haven't been paying attention to HP or else you're one of the newly merged Compaq folks, who were a lot more open-source-friendly. HP's been in bed with MS for years: I distinctly remember HP being one of the first companies to adopt the restore-cd-only policy with their Pavilions, only including a restore CD and not an operating system CD. HP's Kayak dual-CPU workstations were among the first & best NT-running machines I ever used, and I know they didn't build it to run Linux. HP's always been close with MS.
So if HP's relationship with MS surprises you, then you need to get more active with your management in the day-to-day decisionmaking. Every time HP releases a solution that specifically favors MS, sometimes at the expense of their customers, speak up and try to change their minds.
What's your damage, Heather?
It's blame Canada
But seriously, from a buisness point of vieuw this isn't such a bad idea. From an ideaoligic point of vieuw it is, but if I remember correctly coorperations rarely if ever have ' in the worlds best intrest' as part of there buisness model
Of course they're going to be investing money into it. It's not like Linux is offering a true alternative at the moment and to keep people believing their a decent company they need decent understanding and support. I'm sure this is just the first in a long line of stuff announcements from various companies.
;)
As for the MediaPC, that's just a look of things to come from Microsoft and it's attempt to handle DRM in software. Everyone knows they'll never be able to fully pull this off. With every Media Player update you get one step closer to this, whether you know it or not.
It'd have to be a hardware solution with the protection decoded in the sound card before a MS OS could really handle secure music
By posting such unrelated and stupid message to this topic.\n
Dear Bill, do you have a
HP officials, in Houston, disagree. Reverse engineering is just an "educated guess," and it needs to be reworked each time the targeted product changes, said Mark Sorenson, vice president of the Storage Software Division, at HP's Network Storage Solutions division. Also, reverse-engineered solutions don't give customers the mutual support agreements ....
That makes me just an educated fortune teller. Go figure..
Anyone want to place bets on how long before HP "decides that supporting Linux is just too costly" and bails on the platform entirely?
Wouldn't surprise me if part of this MS/HP deal was MSFT saying "before we'll consummate this, in a few months, you've got to get rid of that thorn in our side Perens. We can't have him out there publicly lambasting us, as an employee of your company, if we're going to do business with you."
Let's look at past microsoft buddy-buddy relationships:
Well. . . from past experience, I think HP should bend over. . . we all know what's next.
The only defence would be to never make any money or headway in the business relationship at all. That way, if they actually kill your business while they are sabotaging it, they won't rob your grave and relabel the loot "innovation."
I feel really bad for Carly Fiorona. She may actually believe that she is digging a foundation for her company. . .
Well, we can rule out his Majesty Satanic actually buying HPaq. That would trigger an anti-trust scatalogical storm of world-wide proportions.
So, how can Redmond achieve control without all of the legal overhead of a purchase?
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Computers have been built into stereo equipment for years. Pop open a proscan cd changer and you'll find a serial port which you can log in as root. Most stereo equipment runs embedded linux or BeOS. Shockingly more are starting to have Windows now that harddrives are getting added to the systems.
I used to write software for stereo components for Escient Labs, who had major OEM agreements with RCA, Harmon Kardon, and (more recently) Compaq (now HP). It was quite the cool experience to see all of my favorite hi-fi systems run linux.
What we need is other companies like Sun running campaigns to educate businesses about the dangers of buying into technology that's not cross-platform and show them how it puts a ball and chain around their ankle and ties them to x86 and a Microsoft OS. Dependence on one company is NOT a good thing and not in the best interest of customers. It's only in the best interest of the vendor and their bottom line.
...and that is despite whether they support open source products or not. Afterall, they're running a business and providing products or services for the Windows/.NET platform makes business sense -- short term and long term.
When will you people realize that there will always be Microsoft playing a large part in the market for minimumly the next 10-15 years?
with a few thousand people dedicated to this program and assumign they arent moving from .[otherthing] to .net is $50 million all that much money?
or is this just a bunch of hype to make the stock price possibly move?
i assume if a large vendor has to do a huge new worldwide roll out / market push for some new product that its gotta cost this much.
i am sure they all are doing the same thing. hp just decided to make some press headway with it.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
No, HP and Compaq merged and turned into the New HP. Sort of like the New TNN, but without the Star Trek or pro wrestling. Go to www.compaq.com if you don't believe me.
A lot of people will complain "Boo hoo, I wish HP would invest $50Million in Linux. I hate Microsoft". The fact is, HP has invested a lot of money in Linux so far, and will continue to do so. .NET web services are a standards-compliant improvement to previously existing technology that will IF ANYTHING help to promote cross-platform solutions: In other words this will help HP deliver enterprise solutions involving both Microsoft products AND gnu-linux.
If Linux was really 10 steps ahead of Microsoft, markets would recognize that fact much more than they have. The fact is, there are some areas where linux shines and some areas where commercial software shines.
To me, this is a good thing, since it will raise the bar on standards compliance in the industry and create more niche areas for linux to make its way into the enterprise.
Amazing magic tricks
(Of course, I know what I would want them to do: invest the $50m in gcj and Mono...)
Just because it's not possible to split infinitives in Latin or French doesn't mean that it shouldn't be possible in English. That's why we use two words to make the infinitive in English. Some might say that technically it's not possible to split the infinitive because technically the infinitive is merely a particular form of a verb that does not actually require the word "to" to precede it.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
It's still my computer. If you don't trust me with your movies, then don't put the f***ing things on my computer. I'll still rent the DVD's, you will still make money.
Most people would rather own their computer and rent at blockbuster than simply having a licence for their computer and lots of pretty movies to slowly, slowly download. Since when is this any sort of *compromise* when the terms are dictated from above?
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
Does anyone have any idea if this is going to happen? I.E. they copy over the code and type make?
-- ac at home
What's next you ask ?
I do not know. I do have a collection of "Digital - Microsoft alliance" t-shirts from when DEC still existed.
Embrace and Extend.
"I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately..."
You should be. I remember when Digital Equipment was this close with Microsoft and they convinced M$ to port NT to Alpha. Same thing -- big investment -- deployment of thousands of consultants and support people. Look at how well that worked.
What little remains of DEC now belongs to HP, via Compaq. Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.
Check out java. That does all those things, but it does them now, and it's got a lot of support and it's also multi-vendor. You will NOT be able to write stuff in VS.NET and run them on Linux, because very little of the framework classes are "open", for instance Mono uses its own gui framework based on GTK.
IBM-Sun, w/ java
HP/COMPAQ-Microsoft w/
Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?
If HP is coxying up with Microsoft like this, it explains why HP let go one of the most outspoken MS detractors.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Ironic, isn't it, that the first thing that I see on this page for this story is an ad for M$FT. Next thing you'll know we'll see a poll that will be asking if people will be looking forward to use CowboyNeal.NET.
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
Dr.Stress: Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately
In an unrelated story, Dr.Stress was fired from HP for making !MS comments.
Oh wait. This really happened didn't it?
And remember kiddies, never give money to the copyright industry for any reason forever. If you're renting/buying anything that gives money to the companies backing the **AA's, you're a part of the problem.
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!
If only that followed through, and when Compaq bought DEC, they became DEC....we might still have a viable Alpha Chip...that might have had some clout to win some battles instead of being an also ran...
ah such potential...wasted!
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Can anybody explain just what the hell .Net is, and for that matter, why I need "web services?" It seems to me that HP is investing 50 million in vaporware.
How ya like dat?
HP doesn't have 3000 consultants in its services operation - unless everyone is now a 'consultant'.
Hard to have a viable alpha chip, when cash-poor compaq sold the chip and foundary to cash-rich intel, who was only interested in removing a competitor and aquiring some great engineers.
Microsoft has always pumped money into a technology until it eventually becomes successful (Internet Explorer and Windows CE to name two), but has anyone else noticed that they let everyone else bet their bank on MS technology first, then they learn from their competitor/customer's mistakes?
E.g. The Sega dreamcast. Odd how Microsoft didn't use WinCE for the Xbox isn't it?
Isn't Corel jumping on .Net before MS Office?
The IBM/Microsoft OS/2 partnership and the subsequent WinNT?
I'm sure there are other examples.
"Microsoft to buy Hewlett-Packard". How long before we see this to happen? Two years? Three years? HP is highly dependant on Microsoft, and Microsoft needs the support of big major PC vendors.
I might have suggested that there were close connections between some HP people and MS before the merger led to this ill-fated merger, but apparently they have been doing this to themselves for a long time.
Are they just killing off their Unix server business, or was that already more or less complete before the merger.
Having used both java and .net, my preference goes to .net. .NET CLR is much more advanced than the java JVM (language independence, etc.). .NET framework library is better designed than the java library. .NET just because it's made by Microsoft.
I think the
I also like the operability with legacy code.
I also think the
I also like the fact that a large part of the Framework has been submitted for standardisation.
I disagree with people that don't like
MS is dominatly a supplier of Software. OSS is starting to eat into your figures and mindshare. What do you do? you go into hardware. First you trial in an area where you do not have any influence ( input devices, and perhaps game consoles). Next you set up 1 or more very large hardware companies as being totally dependant on you. The company must have true influence on the industry. Dell, gateway, and compaq by itself do not have that. HP has influence due to being in everything. Once there, partially destroy them and then buy them low. MS has > 50 Billion in the bank. They will most likely have > 80 Billion in about 2 years. How much of HP would that buy?
I use to work at the Ft. Collins HP and in spite of what I had heard, I thought that Carly had HP's best interest at heart. Now, I'm starting to wonder.
They are, however, porting many of the classes except perhaps ASP.NET. Additionally, the public interface will have to be identical, even if the underlying implementation isn't.
Does anyone else get the impression that HP/Compaq will do ANYTHING for a buck?
Sometimes, they're a Linux proponent. Sometimes they're a Windows toady.
If they WILL do anything that anyone will pay for, then why don't they just say that?
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
I will believe it when I see it if Mono ever supports System.Windows.Forms. Mono may become a competitor to wxWindows and perhaps Java in developing portable desktop GUI's that conform to a Mono class library for doing the GUI, but it will be a long time coming before Mono will run a GUI cranked out by Visual Studio, unless they want to go the WINE route.
Bush has shown that the USA can be bought( I would guess cheap).
1) the apparent ending to the MS trial.
2) Comcast/ATT Broadband merger is a great example for near future. The FTC is holding back an investigation that will show that comcast did a texas style accounting similar to Enron/Qwest/MCI. I would guess that they were asked to hold it back. Bush has recently asked for the speed up the merger between these companies.
As to EU, they have no backbone. Look at how they have stood up to MS, When US was doing so. Now that we are not, they have given it up. Unfortunatly, the rest of the world goes along.
We are supporting Microsoft! We are supporting Linux! We are going to move forward with HP-UX and Tru-64! Compaq hardware will keep on truckin! We love AMD and Hammer! We love intel and Itanium!
We will say anything to try and keep our stockholders from noticing that we made a former Lucent exec our CEO and are letting her run one of the most wacked-out mergers ever seen!
If HP bought COMPAQ (heavy M$ machinery) and they are betting on Itanium (Does Intel sounds familiar?), don't you think the next logical step is to sleep with Microsoft?
Hewlett Packard have always been superb engineers and have had always had terrific support. You paid for it of course but you knew that before you looked at them. I call it value because you wanted quality and paid for it, knowing that you were going to pay for it. I never heard a single person complain.
So much for the hardware. Software has always been a different story and remains so. For example, recently I bought an old HP server in a garage sale and it had a DAT8 drive in it. It came with software but I bought it after the computer had been mongreled. The DAT drive works but can I get support from HP? oh no! It is nearly as bad as Apple but at least Apple is honest about it.
The only exception was when Hewlett Packard released New Wave. Software ruled! (personally I hated it then and I still do now that it is everywhere but HP did it first). Even though I hated New Wave I recognise that it was software of the finest water.
It is history now but the courts ruled against it (I can't even remember who filed the suit..) and HP never did software ever again.
Lately? Heh. H-P got in bed with Microsoft long ago, at one point all but abandoning their Unix efforts and customers. I've always preferred Sun over H-P anyway, but felt that H-P would be waiting in the wings should I ever become sufficiently dissatisfied with Sun that I felt a change was necessary. But H-P's getting in bed with M$ originally, and their increasing support of All Things M$ since, completely removed them from consideration for me. Now my backup plan is some flavour of Linux on (probably) Dell hardware, should it ever become necessary.
Quite bluntly: I don't trust H-P to maintain any kind of commitment to anything not M$-centric.
Such a shame, what's happened to H-P :(. Once known for some of the best,
most rock-solid scientific measurement and test equipment that could be
had, and arguably the best calculators on the market. Now look what they've
become: little more than Yet Another M$-Windoze-Me-Too PeeCee company.
I am sure that HP is only listening to its field. HP is out to make money (surprise!), and if they don't listen to their customers and give them what they want (even if it is something "horrible" like .Net) then other companies will be more than happy to replace HP's business.
HP also announced on Friday it would bundle WebLogic with its UX11i servers. They're not only in bed with Microsoft, but it seems they're whoring themselves to everyone.
It's just good marketing - support .NET in a more commercial, mainstream aspect, and support J2EE for all the grunt work (and kick IBM out of the bed).
Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately (this, plus the media center PCs....what's next??).
Ohhhh, poor baby. Would you like your bottle? The trials and trubulations of a for profit company doing business with another for profit company to, can you believe the evil, sell goods and services for profit!!!! What is the world comming to? God forbid your company work with an OS that reaches over 90% of the PCs out there. The horror of having to consider the end user!
Three or four years ago, I had people from HP calling me asking me when I would be moving my systems from HP-UX to NT. When I laughed and told them that we were moving from MS platforms to Unix (tm) and unix-like systems, the people on the other end acted amazed that anyone would still be moving stuff to Unix (tm).
Doesn't really suprise me that after the Compaq merger, they are even more in bed with MS. After all wasn't it Compaq that basically killed the Alpha?
I have no sig, does anyone have one to spare?
"Do you think of the merger as having one less competitor?"
Scott's response:
"No. Two less."
Let Fionrna (whatever her name is) play with .NET and I'll laugh at they crumble and news reports abound of HP and Compaq flopping like fish out of water. Watching two large companies merge is fun! Entertaining for the geek and economist alike. As long as their LaserJet series supports Linux and Apple, I could care less. .NET will drown them. Any developer ACTUALLY EARNING A LIVING AND NOT STILL IN SCHOOL will understand it's about the APIs. Clean and simple with Java (and other langauges, too) but .NET? A fscking mess.
...the stock market is in the process of getting rid of the practice of not expensing stock options. With that gone, MS will be exposed as a Ponzi scheme, right at the point where corporate America needs to save some money. Microsoft's cash reserves are going to go to defense, not offense.
HP's going to go the way of other MS partners, but not the buyout way. By the time this is over, no one's going to want MS stock any more than they want HP stock today. Probably less.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Folks, calm down about this.
HP also signed a deal like this with BEA and people didn't go ballistic. HP signs many deals and they want to be big in services and this and the BEA deal is how you get big in services.
You should be careful about reading corporate press releases, they rarely are in context.
this is not a sig
Linux Expo, 2002; refering to the HP/Compaq merger:
"...it's like watching two slow-moving garbage trucks in a head-on collision..."
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Notice that line forming at the copy machine? Get out while the gettin's good. It's never fun to be on a big ship while it's going down.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Even if this doesn't make sense to us, it does make business sense.
.NET technology space here. I'm not a developer, but I have some very smart friends that are. They tell me that .NET is really cool - it enables small bits of code to do big things. Of course this means that the MS API is handling the majority of those big things, which means that it will be easier than ever to create DOS attacks against the web services and breach security, too. However, MS is cozying up to developers who have business problems to solve, and business frequently is willing to take on security risks because business people rarely understand them. Oh - the customers rarely understand them, too so there's little incentive to pay attention to what our customers can't understand.
Some (very large) percentage of the business community will purchase MS servers, clients, and want to use the new technology. HP has a services department that sells their knowledge about current technologies to businesses.
In the scheme of things, $50M is not that much money, and it's a smart investment because people will be knocking on HP's door asking for consultants that understand this ".NET stuff"
HP would be foolish not to make a play for this $$, particularly since they are a big reseller of MS products and can easily get the marginal revenues by offering "integration" services with the hardware/software sales.
BTW - I've seen some bashing of the
Doesn't have to make sense to you, but it is the reality of the business world......
Regards,
Anomaly
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
This suggests that web services ==
Deceitful strategy, first they try to sell web services because of said platform independance, then the next step is to suggest that you need
I'm not surprised that Hewlett-Packard is working with Microsoft on the .NET initiative.
.NET software.
.NET. That way, HP can sell servers running Linux with Mono which means HP will come out a winner in the end in the long run.
.NET for web services.)
Don't forget that Microsoft is a company sitting on US$40 billion in liquid assets and HP knows Microsoft will be around for a long time, which gives MS time to develop and improve
Besides, I'm sure HP is well-aware of Ximian's Mono project, which essentially is an Open Source version of
(Mind you, I think Microsoft has neferious reasons for assisting Ximian in developing Mono--it will essentially do an end-around attack on Sun's Liberty Alliance initiative. Sun might not realize what hit them when they find out why most of the world is supporting something akin to
Hey... waitaminit... is this opinion with SPECIFICS.... devoid of HYSTERICS.... and LINUXENOPHOBICS... on /.? What the fu....
Gotta go close my windows so the flying pigs can't get in!
It's not a split infinitive. The missing "to" is implicit. We leave out words all the time in English.
For instance, we often leave off the "then" in the sentence "If you want to leave out words people must be able to understand your sentence anyway.".
We also commonly leave off the "which are" in "Split infinitives, the 'bane of all writers', are actually less serious than some would have us believe."
Will HP have any future? While they're wasting time on .NET, that'll take away from effort with a return on investment. MS will toss them like an old paper bag as soon as their own team is together, which will be before HP can recover the costs...
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
see why gnome should not trust mono...and microsoft. geesh
Looks like Compaq's hiding their shady business behind the HP name again...
Step 1: Control HP
Step 2: Publicly announce evil plans under HP's name
Step 3: Profit????
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
OK, here's the fresh sig that you asked for:
Have you been GNUed today?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It is'nt that unusual, nor is it always a bad thing.
The problem with SSafe is that once your project gets too big (5 GB is the number microsoft themselves suggests as a maximum limit) the database (which is just a bunch of files on an NT server) get corrupted and your screwed. Unlike CVS, hand rejiggering of the database is not possible...
The other problem with it is the "server" just uses NT file sharing and the shares have to give everyone write permission so there's no real security anyway...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Well, I'm no fan of Java (I strongly dislike it's extremely limited form of multiple inheritance, I strongly dislike the continual need for casting, I dislike....)
.net improved on those, but the little bit that I've seen didn't indicate this.
. html (This link contains no spaces, no matter what you display shows.)
.net either.
It would be no surprise if
The question is what parts will be available under an acceptable license. The answer isn't clear. And if the applications end up being non-portable anyway (due to GUI platform dependencies, e.g.), then what's the advantage?
Saying that something is technically better than Java is faint praise indeed. Now if you could say that it was better than Python...
Don't point to proprietary libraries as a reason that it's better. That proves nothing at all. Those libraries are probably unuseable. Don't point to it being submitted to standardization as a bonus, unless ALL THE NEEDED PARTS are standardized, and not covered by restrictive patents or licenses. (This could be true, but it isn't what I've been hearing.)
If you think that the CLR being multiple language is a bonus, may I direct you to a web page entitled "Languages for the JavaVM" http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/%7Etolk/vmlanguages
OTOH, it may well be an improved design. I'd be rather shocked if it weren't. This is *years* later.
What language is your legacy code written in? My legacy code either links nicely with any gcc compiler, or doesn't link with
(Sometimes both.)
That it is made by MS is not a de facto reason for disliking it. It is a de facto reason for not trusting any facet of it that I haven't examined. (The burnt child dreads the fire. Once burnt, twice shy. Fool me once, shame on thee, fool me twice, shame on me. You don't fool me three times. etc.)
I never hated and despised Microsoft until after I started using their operating system. After a few years, and a few license changes, it got to the point where it is now common knowledge where I work (well, within the department) that I refuse to install Microsoft software, because I won't agree to the license.
I encourage you to read the EULA before you install software. You are not exempted from the terms just because you don't read them. Your company is not exempted just because you don't care. If the crime of malfeasance applies to sysadmins (or other techs), then I suspect that agreeing to bind you company to those licenses counts as malfeasance. It really is a decision that should be made each time by upper management. No other decision of comparable significance (i.e., likely to kill the company) is made by tech personnel, and they shouldn't make this one either. I recognize that they are frequently coerced into it, but if you accept the coercion, then you are not a professional.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I will be nice when I can develop things using Visual Studio .NET and deploy the assemblies on Linux servers using MONO.
.NET framework library, your app is stuck on Windows. The library is Windows-only by design.
Hahaha! Dream on, dickhead.
The CLR has been ported to Linux to fool nitwits like you into thinking this is a cross platform technology. If you touch anything in the
Maybe you can deploy your Hello World onto Linux.
The funny thing is that no matter how much money Microsoft threw at DEC to move everything over to NT, DEC crashed and burned. HP started a similar migration around the same time but pulled back when customers resisted the pressure from HP to give up UNIX for Windows. Lucky for HP. Is HP still smart? It doesn't look like it....
Microsoft threw $5 BILLION over to AT&T so they would use WinCE and what did that get them? It most likely did more harm to the other OS vendors who had working product and it probably delayed the release of the intended technology in set-top boxes.
IMHO, no company should take Microsoft "investment" capital unless they fully intend to disolve the business very soon. This news that HP is helping finance and back MS.NET just means HP is more likely to not be around for the long run.
In 5 years, HP will split itself up with maybe only the printer division keeping it's name. Or maybe they'll smarten up again and let customers solutions drive the market. Not the latest idea to protect the Windows monopoly, MS.NET.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
You see, theoretical top speed is not a primary concern for most car buyers--or programming language users. Safety, capacity, and comfort are much more important.
Frankly, as an HP employee, I am alarmed at all this closeness with Microsoft lately
No surprise here. Megacorps aren't compatible with the very essense of Open Source because it does not allow them to corner and manipulate markets--simple as that. So stop complaining and don't work for them! Take your skills elsewhere. Start your own small business. Do whatever it takes to join the grassroots opposition to corporate controlled technology. It's not just about Open Source and buzzwords. It's about control. It's about keeping greed in check so that it doesn't erode basic freedom and privacy.
Supposed open-source geeks who go work for proprietary-minded companies are hypocrites. It'd be like fighting with the Nazi's in WW2 because they offered you better pay. Grow some backbone people and stand up for what you believe!
I used to work for a starup which is now a "Microsoft Partner". The reason we became a "partner" is very simple, they came to us and said, point blank, "We are going to copy what you did and put you out of business. If you become a 'partner' and give us your code, we will let you survive on your own merits and help you get funding for two years before we make our version. If you don't, we'll put our own version out in a month and crush you before you can even get your next round of funding. It's your call."
That was almost exactly the deal, and my company agreeed with it becuase there was no way to compete.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Just because you are working for a large corporation does not mean you are whoring yourself. Many corporations such as HP were great and delivered technology that people really appreciated and was very good. People don't realise, this poster makes sense. To people in the tech industry MS and Dell are akin to the devil. Not only because they make crappy products but they are commoditizing us out of work. Dell and MS and the rest of the wintel makers are killing other products and companies destroying jobs. I understand on the low end what MS is doing and don not mind it but high end applications are what keep engineers employed and innovation going. By working for MS competitors you are hurting MS.
Okay, I've been using .NET for over a year now and it's a great platform. I have done some Java coding but from what I've seen the complete .NET package is second to none. And if the Mono people do it right, C# code written on a Windows machine should port perfectly to Linux, as long as they keep the object interfaces the same...
on an executive level can be seen quite clearly when looking at this page and choosing "Load Map" and "Microsoft and HP shake hands".
from the to-stupid-for-words dept.
> In 5 years, HP will split itself up with maybe only the printer division keeping it's name.
Unless MS convinces them that printers should only be able to print what there is a licence for. A brave new range of DRM enabled HP printers replaces all existing models, while MS builds Windows drivers that _require_ DRM printers.
Speaking of DEC... After it was announced that HP would buy Compaq, a rumour quickly spread that Apple would be acquired next. This is why.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Others have listed the companies that were former MS partners. Lotus, Novell, etc. HP will learn too, that to Microsoft "partner" means "someone we haven't figured out how to take their market share yet".
Sleep is for the Weak
The .NET class libary sucks. That's my biggest gripe with .NET. The runtime and language is BRILLIANT and class libaries absolutely SUCK.
.NET is quite the opposite. No use of the MVC design pattern (check our Windows Forms eww). No use of the strategy design pattern (check out System.Drawing eww).
.NET class libary SUCKS.
Many of the classes are hard wired and tightly coupled meaning improvements can't be done without changing the original source code.
Java uses very good OO design patterns and principles. The class libaries are extensible.
Compared to Java, the
that's pretty much what Microsoft is attempting. It seems silly when you think about it related to printers. But, they want to have full control of what runs across the I/O subsystem. The music and film industry like this but with Sony and AOL/TimeWarner in the mix, they don't want Microsoft implementing it. It's not going to be like the phone business where everybody said NO to Microsoft but there are enough big players on the other side of the fence to fight this. Thank gawd.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
One thing seems for sure - Carly's own stock is going to fall even more.
You should check Mono first before talking. Miguel and his Team are making the dream a reality. Hats off to them !
He who controls the Class A space, controls the Universe!
I would have you imagine, then, that there exists in the mind of man a block
of wax... and that we remember and know what is imprinted as long as the
image lasts; but when the image is effaced, or cannot be taken, then we
forget or do not know.
-- Plato, Dialogs, Theateus 191
[Quoted in "VMS Internals and Data Structures", V4.4, when
referring to image activation and termination.]
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