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LindowsOS Will Bundle AOL Client
ealar dlanvuli writes "BuisnessWeek Online is reporting that AOL/TW and Lindows have decided to work together in bundling a version of Netscape 7 with future Lindows products. One wonders if they should instead be supporting OEone and making it scream."
Man, what a piss-poor headline. I was actually excited for a second, hoping that there really would be a client for AOL *the service* bundled with Lindows. But no... it's just Netscape 7, which isn't any more functionally than Mozilla really (less in some areas).
I would have personally loved an AOL client on Linux. My family has used AOL for years, both as a primary ISP and a secondary service. I've had the same email account on AOL for years (yes, it's spam-ridden, but a lot of my friends still use it) and it would be nice to be able to access it via some method other than their (once crappy, now much better) webmail interface.
In addition to that, there's the fact that having AOL for Linux would give it another crucial app for desktop migration. Not that I'd expect it to work nearly as nicely in setting up your internet connection on Linux as it does on Windows or Mac, which is where AOL really shines, but the ability to access their full service would be nice.
But no. We get Netscape, something the whole of Unix has pretty much outgrown with Konqueror, Opera, Mozilla, and its spinoffs. Too bad, back to waiting.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Imagine how many more people the linux community would add if there was a STABLE platform for AOL.
You would have a captive audience. What more do you want?
user@host$ diff
This is a good point to insert Linux onto the desktop of average Joe. Despite Lindows licensing tricks they open a door for open source software.
As Windows licenses are expensive it would be nice to see for example Dell to supply computers pre-installed with Lindows. This would still let the average user to use Excel, Word, etc. But allows easy installation and adoption of applications such as KOffice, Gimp etc.
Today it is hard to get a Windows computer to run *nix (open source) apps in a native looking way, but this could change all that.
It is official; Netcraft now confirms: LindowsOS is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered LindowsOS community when IDC confirmed that LindowsOS market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that LindowsOS has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. LindowsOS is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict LindowsOS's future. The hand writing is on the wall: LindowsOS faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for LindowsOS because LindowsOS is dying. Things are looking very bad for LindowsOS. As many of us are already aware, LindowsOS continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
LindowsOS is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time LindowsOS developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: LindowsOS is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenLindowsOS leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenLindowsOS. How many users of NetLindowsOS are there? Let's see. The number of OpenLindowsOS versus NetLindowsOS posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetLindowsOS users. LindowsOS/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetLindowsOS posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of LindowsOS/OS. A recent article put FreeLindowsOS at about 80 percent of the LindowsOS market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeLindowsOS users. This is consistent with the number of FreeLindowsOS Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeLindowsOS went out of business and was taken over by LindowsOSI who sell another troubled OS. Now LindowsOSI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that LindowsOS has steadily declined in market share. LindowsOS is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If LindowsOS is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. LindowsOS continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, LindowsOS is dead.
Fact: LindowsOS is dying
Much to our disappointment, companies like Lindows and the other "easy to use" distros are trying to convert those windows users (yes the ones that don't know how to run word if the interface suddenly looked a little funny, like gtk or qt, atleast that's the argument). In other words, having AOL for linux is a good thing for THEM, not necessarily for US the ones that know how to use our machines just fine the way they are. So with this wonderful "ease of use" comes dumbed down applications and windows looking/acting distro's. AOL has been a prime candidate for this for a long time. it was inevitable.
Logik
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
... why they put in Netscape 7 instead of Mozilla 1.1? Why this sudden interest in AOL products?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Here's one for you right away.
The point is moot, anyway, since they're not really bundling the AOL client, but just Netscape (which is what the poster above is complaining about).
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
I'll give you one example. My family, until the last two weeks, used AOL as their primary ISP. They have tons of hard drive space, and I could have potentially set up a partition with Linux on it for when I come home, and for my little brothers to experiment and play on.
However, I know from a lot of experience that Linux is really difficult to learn if you don't either have someone right there teaching you or an internet connection, and I wasn't going to be there all the time for my brothers. So I didn't bother with Linux because it wouldn't have been that useful or comfortable for me. With an AOL client, someone like me could get their internet connection on Linux.
Another example is a friend who was curious about Linux after I had talked it up so much. So I installed Mandrake as a dual boot for him to experiment with. His family uses AOL as their only ISP. He couldn't really stay in Linux very long before he found he needed the internet for something. The best way to learn Linux is to use it, and he wasn't really able to use it to learn it.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. The ability to move over slowly to Linux is important, and it's much harder to experiment when you can't get help online (IRC, google, discussion boards are critical resources). An AOL client would help those millions of people with curious kids and AOL as an ISP to try Linux.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Lindows isn't aimed at your average Linux geek. Its core market will be people who want a cheap, functional OS (at the very least, cheap rules out MS solutions) but don't/can't/won't/ use GNU/Linux.
To misquote the oft-cited Slashdot Linux line - "I'm going to install (%distro) on my parent's home machine!" But would you really? Would you really install Red Hat or Mandrake on your parent's machine, when you know all they need is a web browser, an email client and perhaps an instant messenger client? Would you *really* take the time to install it, secure it, solve dependency issues and then *teach* them step-by-step how to use the OS until they reached the point where they weren't calling you five times a week for support?
The entire reason Lindows exists is to provide a cheap, functional and easy-to-use alternative to Microsoft on the desktop. They seem to have the first part worked out, but it remains to be seen if they can get the last two right.
Linux geeks aren't going to replace their Debian or Gentoo boxes with Lindows, because its not what most of them want (primarily). If Lindows fails to get the "mum and dad" and "I just want to do my homework and then use IRC" groups of people, than it will die a slow and painfull death.
That is why an AOL client on the Lindows desktop would be beneficial. It's a quick, easy and relatively painless way to get normal, non-tech-savvy users on the 'Net.
Of course, this is all rather academic because if you'd read the article, you'd know that the headline is BS and that the linked story talks about including Netscape 7, not AOL.
Janie took my gun...
AOL uses a proprietary login scheme. You can't log in to their servers unless you've got the application layer lying well above the ethernet card to allow it. I've never been to Europe, let alone tried to access AOL there without a client, but I'd imagine it's much the same.
And don't act like the days of modems are dead. The majority of people in the US still use them. We may be backwards, but it's still a fact.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
I think (I'm guessing here) that this is just the default favicon for certain Web server software (probably iPlanet). If the favicon isn't specified, it automatically becomes a Netscape logo. There are heaps of sites like this.
OLPC Australia
Look:
With its AOL licensing deal, the Lindows said that consumers can enjoy the versatility of Netscape browser and communications capabilities right out-of-the-box with an icon-driven interface.
Whoa - icons! Let me get this straight... Are they saying they'll use those new, often abstract, graphic representations of commands you give to the computer? This, my friends, seem to be a browser for the 21st century. Let's all embrace Netscape 7 in all its glory.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Its nice that more userfriendly alternatives comes out on linux. If AOL supports linux it will mean that more users will have the ability to try it out. Surely not all will stay but some like me will quickly fall madly inlove.
An interface like AOL makes lindows idiot friendly. Many of you 373343 hAxx0r5 may find that disturbing but i like the spinoffs it makes. More users means more people bugging hardware manufacturers to release drivers for consumer products etc.
I think its high time we stop snearing at newbs and people that just want to use the box, not administer it. Compare to autos and the development from daily self service from the beginning to almost no service today. It is inevitable that things is done by automation in the future. Who wants to work on their car every day just to drive to work?
Just like with cars self service of computers will become a hobby someday.
HTTP/1.1 400
It seems Mandrake always gets left out in the cold when it comes to hyping a "Linux for the masses" desktop solution.
Mandrake is perfectly positioned to fill all the needs of a home Linux user, from the beginner right through to the advanced user.
As for AOL teaming up with Lindows - all that is mentioned in the article is Netscape 7.0 being 'integrated' with Lindows.
In short, all this means right now is that Lindows will use Netscape as it's primary web browser.
The whole thing is just one ugly "Lets get on the Linux bandwagon to screw Microsoft" marketing stunt.
The last thing Linux needs is meddling and interference by AOL/Time Warner - can you just imagine. If they adopt Linux in a big way, in a few years, they'll be claiming they invented it and will add tons of proprietary closed source bunk.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Everyone has already nailed you with the "Lindows is going after Windows users", but I've got something else to add.
I would say, if someone would write a single control panel-type interface, where the important things could be configured in a centralized locations (e.g. network, software packages, display, keyboard, mouse, etc) and make it blatantly obvious that it should be used (links on the desktop, and in an obviously labeled menu) then I would put Linux up against Windows.
The problem with Linux isn't that there's no tools to configure it... the problem is that the tools often don't quite work, there are a lot of different ones (at least one for each subject) and their interfaces aren't always as easy as windows equivalent (although some do surpass their counterparts). In fact, being able to configure everything in one place, and having it work right the first time, every time, would be a substantial improvement over Windows!
If any distro got to that point, I would distribute it to every non-gamer I know (games are the big hold up, keeping people I know, from switching).
So, in case you got lost in bracket-hell, I'll say it again. With just a LITTLE work, I think Linux would be user-friendly enough to completely replace Windows.
That said, I still think more could be done with OpenBSD than Linux. Since it detects all hardware at startup, and loads drivers for hardware automatically, you would only need a very simple program that parses dmesg, then automatically reconfigures XFree86, and put up any messages, like "A new NIC was found, please type the IP address".
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Doesn't LindowsOS constantly run as the 'root' user?
Interesting. You're right, there it is. AOL client 7.0 sneak preview.
So my next question is how do they do this? Is the client fully native? Compiled with winelib? Just run through wine? Will this work on my debian setup?
Still, thank you for pointing this out. This is great news, especially if it can run in Mandrake and the like. Hopefully we'll know more soon.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
>The point is moot, anyway, since they're not
>really bundling the AOL client, but just Netscape
>(which is what the poster above is complaining
>about).
Right now at least... But, if you go to their website, they say they working on it:
Even though AOL can't currently be used as your
ISP to connect to the Internet from within
LindowsOS (that's being worked on)
And provide a link to download it:
http://www.lindows.com/aoloffer
And give you screenshots of AOL 7.0 running under Lindows:
http://info.lindows.com/aol/#client
It would hardly suprise me if, come the time of their Lindows 3.0 release, there was an AOL icon on the desktop like you get with a lot of OEM manufacturers.
Matt
They are testing an AOL client for Windows. For some reason, the story didn't post to it. Anyways, here's the URL: http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_details.ph p?id=15
There are already plenty of APIs for game programmers to choose from, but so little gaming is done on Unix that there's little happening in that front.
While many people may buy software all the time, you just have to get them accustomed to using something like Lindows' internet software install... thing.
With the most recent addition of OpenOffice, I really think all the bases are covered. All the software most anyone would be spending several thousands of dollars for is available in a free, improved, and stable form on Linux. Some might not like to adapt to that new idea, but I have yet to meet any of them.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
(shakes head in disbelief)
Lindows isn't for Linux users, Timothy. It's for people accustomed to Windows who might want a choice. It's for people who aren't really hard-core computer users but want a bit of choice in their computer purchasing. Putting an obscure (relative to Windows) front end on Linux will not accomplish that. For Lindows to work it has to, for the most part, behave like Windows.
OEone is interesting, just like any random Linux distribution is interesting. That doesn't mean that they're easily understood by the masses of the computer users who get their boxes from Dell and/or Best Buy, etc...
Will the AOL commercials on CNN change significantly? Old commercial: grandma type says "it's like having a verbal chat [twiddles fingers]...electronically!" New commercial: father type says something like: "AOL uses ipchains/procmail filter/ext2 file system/gecko rendering engine....and that's important to me"
I can't believe the growing ridiculousness of this website.
First off, what terrible research. You should have linked to the actual website, where'd you see that there actually is AOL for Linux coming our way.
Secondly, rather than let the uncompromising, closed-minded crowd continue to hate LindowsOS because it appears to be stylish amongst the l33t, you should have posted an actual story (submitted and rejected) that would be truly informational about LindowsOS, like this story.
This is turning into selective and irresponsible technology reporting.
SuSE does exactly that - their YasT2 modules are integrated into the KDE control-center and you can manage *everything* from there, from IP-adress to the default link color.
If any distro got to that point, I would distribute it to every non-gamer I know (games are the big hold up, keeping people I know, from switching).
Do that.
OEOne sounded good, so I figured, what the heck. I cranked up the script in lynx, and let it rip.
Well, the EULA that pops up makes Microsoft look tame.
It starts with the usual disclaimer of how they "take no responsibility for the
consequences of running this script."
That seemed pretty standard, although worded a little harsh.
It then goes through some normal install stuff, then comes the fun!
Issue 1. Your bound by the license of any other software they install, even though you don't see them.
Issue 2. Any software, or plugins they OEOne installs can ONLY be used while using OEOne's desktop, and can not be called directly.
Issue 3. Automatic communication. They can do any communication they want to, but you can shut off "MOST" of it in the pref settings. (MOST? Oh, that's nice and gray for a EULA. Stated clearly, it means that you can't shut it _ALL_ off)
Issue 4. DRM. Yup, it's in there, and they can stick in as much as they want.
Fortunately, you can hit cancel, and throw it all away. I looks to me like they are trying to complete directly with Microsoft, with restrictions, and control over my machine. I switched to Linux to get away from that crap! Sure, the screenshots looked nice, but I'll never be seeing this on MY machine.
I'm tired of all the Netscape-bashing. AOL has spent a lot of money developing Mozilla -- true, there's some amount of outside development, but the bulk of it has been funded by AOL for use in their Netscape product. The least you can do is lend a few kind words. Personally, I use the Netscape-branded browser (Netscape 7 is a very good browser on all three platforms) and I use their portal site. You should, too. All of this stupid Slashdot groupthink of "Mozilla good, Netscape bad!" completely ignores the fact that if there were no Netscape, there would be no Mozilla. Or the more likely scenario -- if AOL hadn't acquired Netscape, Netscape might have gone out of business without the backing of a big tech player, and most of you would be using Mozilla 0.2 right now.
Give Netscape some credit, folks. They're trying to be a good open source citizen. Don't disappoint them with a childish "take take take" attitude.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
That said, I still think more could be done with OpenBSD than Linux. Since it detects all hardware at startup, and loads drivers for hardware automatically, you would only need a very simple program that parses dmesg, then automatically reconfigures XFree86, and put up any messages, like "A new NIC was found, please type the IP address"
Mandrake 8.2 has all of these things. Mandrake Control Panel is the control panel you describe and they have a hardware scanner called "kudzu" that does exactly what you are describing ("New hardware has been found". . . etc).
The next version of Mandrake is almost out. . . you REALLY should give it a try if you value all of these features.
Well, good, at least nobody read the article.
The AOL ISP client is not being bundled with Lindows. It is just Netscape 7, which has AIM, but that's about as far as it goes for interoperating with the AOL service.
So, right now, NOBODY has AOL for Linux. You can all relax.
I agree with you on the user front. I was trying to explane to my mother that I had my new site up, bhsx.yi.org, and she kept telling me she couldn't get to it. Now this is a woman who ran the offices for Consumer's Digest Magazine (failed .com and all) for 16 or so years, she's a woman who used to pass around WordStar pirate discs, when WordStar cost something like $550/seat. So I thought maybe I screwed the DNS pooch, somehow. But after logging into a remote server and using links, I realized she didn't really know what she was doing. She was running win98/IE and somehow couldn't get to my site. So one day I decided that she should show me what she was doing when trying to reach it. She went right for the "Yahoo Search" form that yahoo embedded into her IE. I tried to correct her, and said "No, no, the URL field... the bar at the top." So she clicks the Search form on Excite (she was checking her mail... I can't believe she still uses Excite/SpamHaven, but I degress). So at this point I point to the URL bar, and she understands. So what does she do?
She starts typing in www.bhsx.yi.org....
True Story, just happenned last week.
put the what in the where?
in contrast to Linux targeting the lowest price point.
Now, if Lindows can bring the two of these together, particularly in those Wal-Mart boxen, there would be some serious weeping and gnashing of teeth in the Red Pits of Redmond, where Beelzebilly rules.
The problem of business world penetration, where file compatibility is crucial, is a different question than fixin' up granny to move
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
If you think this through a bit farther, you won't be too disappointed at all.
Lindows still has a linux kernel, right? It's still linux? If we swell our numbers with enough of those windows users, Linux might actually get more native development for games/apps from manufacturers.
Since you'll still have versions of linux that are not dumbed down, I fail too see how having more native games/apps available is a "disappointment".
Murphy was an optimist.
OEone might turn out to be the slickest piece of software ever written, but that won't sell it.
/. readers and many Linux supporters make is assuming everyone else shares their enthusiasm for change. They don't. People want to stay with the comfortable and familiar. The discomfort of learning new ways to do old things mitigates against widespread adoption of new software.
The biggest mistake
I hope OEone is compelling enough to counter that inertia. Linux needs it.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Uh...so, like how do I get to the installer? Through your ISP of course! My ISP is AOL.
This is not a catch-22, as you don't have to download the client software through the Internet but rather through the Postnet. Simply ask your ISP to send you a bisk[1]. Stick it in your computer's CD-ROM drive, and it'll mount the filesystem. Then, from nautilus or konqueror, open the CD and find the little "linux-install" icon. Open it, and You've Got Spam!
[1] "Bisk" refers to a copy of client software for any online service that uses a proprietary dialer and does not use standard PPP, especially such a copy distributed without charge (and often unsolicited) through the postal service.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Would including Mozilla stop them from trying it out?
Including Mozilla 1.1 but not the AOL dialer would not allow users who pay AOL to give them access the Internet. AOL uses a proprietary protocol to dial the Internet, not standard PPP. Linux distributions support only standard PPP out of the box.
Will I retire or break 10K?
The point the origional poster was trying to make is that this is not an AOL client .
OK, great, Netscape 7 has stuff Mozilla doesn't, and some of that stuff is related to AOL. Whoop-a-dee-doo! You still can't connect to AOL as your primary ISP. You still can't admin your AOL email account. You still can't access the special AOL-only content.
This is not adding AOL support to Linux, which while I personally wouldn't care, it would at least be newsworthy. This is just a distro shipping with the latest version of Netscape, which is, quite frankly, about as newsworthy as "RMS puts his pants on one leg at a time".
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I would say, if someone would write a single control panel-type interface, where the important things could be configured in a centralized locations (e.g. network, software packages, display, keyboard, mouse, etc) and make it blatantly obvious that it should be used (links on the desktop, and in an obviously labeled menu) then I would put Linux up against Windows.
Just an FYI, SuSE did this at least a year ago with their YaST2 modules being integrated into KDE Control Center, which makes that Control Center tool able to configure KDE, desktop, windows, look & feel, sounds, etc. as well as hardware, network, routing, internet connection, firewall, NFS, NIS, you name it.
That said, I still think more could be done with OpenBSD than Linux. Since it detects all hardware at startup, and loads drivers for hardware automatically, you would only need a very simple program that parses dmesg, then automatically reconfigures XFree86, and put up any messages, like "A new NIC was found, please type the IP address".
Again, most major distros that I am aware of (Redhat, MDK, SuSE) are able to detect new hardware on boot and configure it.
These arguments were very valid ones couple of years ago. Not so anymore. My experience has been that hardware setup is much easier on major Linux distros than Windows any version.
SuSE has an awful license. I'll be avoiding it as much as possible.
And the last time I took a look at it (~6.3) Yast2 wasn't very impressive.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I should have mentioned licenses....
I haven't seen lycoris, but I'd bet it suffers from the same problems as the others... And i
It's those problems you mention that need to be worked out, and can fairly easilly be worked out.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
You aren't very experienced then. They are vaild problems, today as the tools provided don't work. Even if they did, the user-friendlyness of these apps is actually worse than a few years ago, and it's more difficult for new users, as there are 50 apps to configure your NIC, and distros include them all, despite not a single one properly seeting everything up. It's a real half-assed state of affairs... and the commercial push has just resulted in a lot more non-workinhg programs being pushed out the door. Lack of forethought on the distre developers' part has be a big part of the lowsy experience new users have.
Check other posts on this thread for more details.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
You are allowed to do everything you could do with GPLed software (copy, redistribute, modify, redistribute modified versions) except you are not allowed to resell it for money (or create a commercial distribution out of it)
And this is true only for YaST and SaX, most of SuSE's work (ReiserFS, ALSA, contributions to XFree, KDE, Linux, etc.) are released under free licenses.
Oh really? Then tell me where can someone download an ISO of SuSE's latest release?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Both Photoshop and GIMP work great. If you don't think so, it's most likely because you haven't taken the time to learn the Open Source programs, as you likely have with the commercial ones.
The single problem I've had with Office compatibility is fonts on one platform don't exist on the other... If you've got an example file that can demonstrate a problem, go ahead and post it... Otherwise, I doubt onyone will be paying attention to your complaints.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant