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FCC Approves Digital Radio, Kills Satellite Merger

n8willis writes "...Just saw this AP article on Excite news: the FCC has just approved the first upgrade in broadcast radio technology in decades. It allows "CD quality" digital signals to be simulcast by stations along with their traditional analog feed. The tech comes from some company called iBiquity, and unlike Sirius or XM satellite radio, there will be no charge for listening. Some radio buff want to tell us what they know about this concept?" And wiredog writes "The Federal Communications Commission has voted 4-0 to reject a $26 billion merger between satellite TV providers Echostar Communications and Hughes Electronics.

76 of 362 comments (clear)

  1. CD Quality? by jazman_777 · · Score: 4, Funny

    RIAA,baby.

    --
    Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  2. 4 voting members? by theRhinoceros · · Score: 5, Funny

    voted 4-0

    Excuse me if this may seem like an extradinarily ignorant question, but wouldn't an agency that has as much power as the FCC be better served with a voting panel with an odd number off members?

    1. Re:4 voting members? by TheMatt · · Score: 5, Informative
      Well, you are right. According to the FCC:
      The FCC is directed by five Commissioners appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate for 5-year terms, except when filling an unexpired term. The President designates one of the Commissioners to serve as Chairperson. Only three Commissioners may be members of the same political party. None of them can have a financial interest in any Commission-related business.
      But, the FCC also acknowledges that there are only four commissioners at this time. I guess the Senate must be debating the fifth? Anyone know why there's four at the moment?
      --

      Fortran programmer...oh yeah. Array math for life!

    2. Re:4 voting members? by teho · · Score: 3, Informative

      We do. The Vice President is the president of the senate and casts the tie-breaking vote.

      -C

    3. Re:4 voting members? by IEEEmember · · Score: 5, Informative
      FCC site shows only 4 commisioners are currently appointed. FCC is typically run by 5 commisioners.

      Michael K. Powell
      Kathleen Q. Abernathy
      Michael J. Copps
      Kevin J. Martin
      Additional Information

    4. Re:4 voting members? by seanw · · Score: 5, Funny

      god, what a moron! rocks, paper, scissors, of course--best out of three

    5. Re:4 voting members? by RailGunner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably for the same reason that there are numerous vacanies in the Federal Judiciary: Senate Democrats are not bringing any of Bush's appointments to a full Senate vote, choosing instead to kill off every nominee in committee.

    6. Re:4 voting members? by cornflux · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Sounds suspiciously similar to the problem with judical nominations, these days. Interestingly, the Democrats appear to be the source of the problem.

      The most recent example? The nomination of Judge Shedd:

      "...Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) had promised a vote on Shedd and then violated committee rules by removing the nomination from the agenda of a Tuesday committee meeting."
      The funny thing is that he's already a U.S. District Judge and has been confirmed by Congress, previously.

      What a world...

    7. Re:4 voting members? by carlos_benj · · Score: 5, Funny

      I guess the Senate must be debating the fifth?

      How refreshing! Usually they're pleading the fifth....

      --

      --

      As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.

    8. Re:4 voting members? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Never mind the fact that Bush is nominating far right wing folks, knowing full well the Senate won't confirm any of them. Then he gets to point the finger at the Democrats for obstruction. Karl Rove is a damn genius. Does it bother anyone else that he runs the country?

      -B

    9. Re:4 voting members? by BurntHombre · · Score: 3, Funny
      How refreshing! Usually they're pleading the fifth....

      And, in some cases, drinking a fifth!

    10. Re:4 voting members? by Catbeller · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Intelligent women are really scary, aren't they?

  3. Sigh by Marco_polo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's things like this that delay early adoption of technology (at least in my eyes).. People will hold off on buying anything until a clear 'winner' emerges from this mess. I was considering Sattelite radio, now I see this. What to do?

    Maybe I'm just bitter at losing my pants on Sattelite Radio stock..

    --
    I am the lord of the pun. Dance Knave!
    1. Re:Sigh by orev · · Score: 5, Informative

      These 2 things aren't even related.

      Satellite lets you have all the channels no matter where you are in the coutry, and you have to pay for it.

      The new digital FM is just an upgrade to regular FM, so you'll get some better sound and maybe a digital readout of what's playing. You still get to listen to the same crappy programming.

      There's no "will they ever learn" here. It's 2 completely different things.

    2. Re:Sigh by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless this is going to be a nationwide digital radio network using stations to broadcast there signal on SCA for a nominal fee (there are currently analog networks like this, and some digital content (stock tickers, news feeds, etc) that broadcast on these subcarriers.
      There currently is a nationwide network that broadcasts the same thing in every major city. It's called Clearchannel Communications. Go to Cleveland, Chicago, New York, L.A., Orlando, Seattle, and Dallas and you should be able to find a clearchannel station that is basically playing the same format and same playlist as in the other markets. ;-) Whatever would we do without our nationwide radio monopolies!? Thanks Telecommunications act of 1996! Before it was much more confusing with dozens of companies owning the different stations.

  4. Map of the radio spectrum? by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the FCC has just approved the first upgrade in broadcast radio technology in decades. It allows "CD quality" digital signals to be simulcast by stations along with their traditional analog feed.

    How much "bandwidth" does this new digital radio take up? Will it be something we have to contend for 10 years down the road when 802.11X takes off?

    Does anyone have a link to a good tutorial on how things are looking? Is there still a lot of "premium" airwave space for wireless internet to grow into, or are we heading towards another battle with corporate america?

    --
    The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
    1. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by linefeed0 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      More importantly, how much of the existing FM spectrum does this take up?


      Advocates for independent radio stations (a dying breed, I know) have been complaining for years that Clear Channel et al. have been using the threat of multiple digital radio standards to squelch the FCC's low power FM proposals (which were finally legislatively gutted last year, a move justified by the same rhetoric).


      This is sad given that digital radio offers no serious advantage on the FM band other than possibly longer range; FM quality is pretty damn good.

    2. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by noser · · Score: 3, Informative

      The "technology" page on ibiquity's website is already slashdotted, but I seem to recall from something I read last week that the digital channels were going to be transmitted over existing radio frequencies.

      Even if I'm wrong about that, I imagine that these digital radio channels will be carrying compressed audio, so that might allow stations to broadcast several content streams simultaneously. It would be cool if NPR could broadcast a high bitrate stream of a live concert at night, while running multiple low bitrate news and talk streams during the daytime. I would think that technology like this would increase programming diversity on the airwaves, once the price of equipment comes down.

    3. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by wheatking · · Score: 5, Informative
      Office of Spectrum Management (i kid you not) @

      http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/osmhome.html

      Chart @

      http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html

      Useful links @

      http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/sites.html

      -wk

    4. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by noser · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that it's a shame about what has happened with low-power FM, but let's be serious- FM isn't going anywhere any time soon. In my area of New England, there are still several active AM stations to be found on the dial. I mostly listen to a lot of college, ethnic, and public radio stations while I'm in the car, so for me the track and title information on digial radio would qualify as a serious advantage all by itself, not even considering the increase in sound quality.

    5. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by Phreakiture · · Score: 3, Informative

      The technology is called IBOC, which stands for In Band On Channel.

      The technology works by using the portion of the 200kHz space that is allocated to every FM station, that the station is not using at that exact instant.

      The original choice of 200kHz spacing was set up by observing the nature of FM. The carrier was allowed to deviate from its center frequency by up to 75kHz in either direction. This deviation is used to encode the information onto the carrier.

      Audio is added to this carrier at a maximum frequency of 15kHz. The transmission of a 15kHz tone on a carrier, AM or FM, will result in sidebands (think "aliasing artifacts") developing on either side of the carrier at 15kHz away from the carrier.

      Since the carrier is modulated by changing its frequency, if we modulate this carrier with a 15kHz tone at what is called "full deflection", i.e. we move it a full 75kHz above centre to a full 75kHz below centre, then the whole amount of spectrum required to do this will be 180kHz. This is 90kHz either side of the centre frequency.

      Sanity check: The lowest-frequency artifact will be the lower sideband at the point when the carrier is at its maximum negative deflection. This will be the centre frequency, minus the deflection (75kHz) minus the width of the sideband (15kHz). This, in turn will be 90kHz below the centre.

      Similarly, the maximum frequency artifact will be the upper sideband at the point when the carrier is at its maximum positive deflection. This will be the centre frequency, plus the deflection (75kHz) plus the width of the sideband (15kHz). This, in turn, will be 90kHz above the centre.

      For stereo broadcasting, some additional, ultrasonic information is added to the carrier (this information is done via a transformation that is beyond the scope of this description). This higest frequency of the modulated data becomes 53kHz as a result of this. This, in turn, is not modulated to full deflection, so it still remains within the permitted space.

      For digital broadcasting, the digital data will be carried by a non-FM technique, and will be put together in concert with the analog FM signal. This signal will then be modulated in such a manner as it dodges the current location of the carrier. How?

      From my previous description, you can see that the carrier and its sidebands will, at any given instant, only occupy a 106kHz chunk of spectrum (carrier + both sidebands) for stereo, or a 30kHz chunk of spectrum for monaural. The remaining 94kHz or 170kHz of allocated space is empty. The digital data is placed there.

      Now, I hear you asking, won't this cause interference to the analog signal? Ths short answer is yes. However, as long as the digital signal is maintained at a lower signal strength than the analog one, an FM receiver will ignore the digital signal, due to a feature of FM called the "capture effect," wherein a receiver is "captured" by the strongest signal it hears, provided that signal is a particular strength over any other signals. The ratio of the strongest signal to the next strongest that still results in the strongest signal winning is called the "capture ratio."

      Nutshell, therefore, is that this will require no new spectrum, but will inestead make more judicious use of existing spectrum, unlike digital TV.

      One last note, about content. XM and Sirius have the potential to deliver something other than the Clear Channels pablum. That doesn't mean they will, nor does it mean that they will continue to do so if they do in the first place. Broadcast FM, however, and its new digital counterpart, have the potential to continue to deliver community-originated content, where community radio stations exist, such as our own local, WRPI.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    6. Re:Map of the radio spectrum? by ncc74656 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      In Las Vegas, I've picked up KCBS in San Francisco.

      KCBS is only 20 kHz away from the local 50-kW blowtorch, KDWN. There's also a mountain range between here and there that the signal has to bounce over.

      I did that with a 50-year-old RCA tabletop radio, a smallish plastic five-tube (!) radio with the antenna in the back cover. (The circuit design is what was called the "All-American Five.")

      Analog radio can be received with the simplest of equipment...an antenna, a ground connection, a coil, a capacitor, a diode, and high-impedance headphones can pick up an AM signal. I doubt that you could pick up a digital signal with something anywhere near as simple.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  5. cd quality, free music, on the airwaves? by krb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dude, RIAA is gonna be the biggest fan of this... Only not. Will radios no longer come with tape decks? Line outs? Speaker connections? Perhaps they'll only enable the audio out if the proper DRM key is inserted? I like the idea, but in the current climate, something tells me this is going to have an uphill battle.

    -k

    --
  6. How can this be allowed to happen? by Prince_Ali · · Score: 4, Insightful

    CD quality music broadcast over wireless technology... for free?

  7. Now, if only they did more of this. by sketerpot · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If they would approve even more changes, it would be nice. I think that they should open up more radio frequency to unregistered use, for one thing. This would allow more room for technology like 802.11* and Bluetooth to work with.

    It would also be excellent of they would realize that with modern technology, they don't need to use so much of the radio spectrum for one TV or radio station. The spectrum is scarce, but the scarcity is largely artificial.

    This is encouraging. I just hope that this sort of thing continues and the FCC adapts to modern technology.

  8. YEAH! No crappy DISHNET! by nbvb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Whoo hoo!

    This means my DirecTiVo is going to stay around for a while!

    I was afraid that Dish Network would push the Dishnet PVR on us once the merger went through .... blech, what a broken piece of hardware THAT thing is :-)

    Besides, DirecTV broadcasts in a higher quality than Dish does -- better picture, better sound, better service.

    I'm glad to see we're not going to be subject to Uncle Charlie (Ergen)'s pet wishes and peeves ...

    Now if we can avoid being bought by Rupert, we'll be OK :-)

    --NBVB

  9. this is good news by JoeBlows · · Score: 3, Informative

    now with digital signals, you can fit more stations on the local spectrum since digital will not "bleed" like analog does. better sound, and in 10 years or so, more choice...I can definatly see the end of satelite radio if local stations can keep up on the content.

    --
    True capitalism = lots of similar companies = jobs for everyone who wants one.
  10. Digital AM by rgoer · · Score: 4, Informative

    I thought I remembered hearing, a few years ago, something about AM radio going digital starting sometime around October 2002. The original plan, as laid out by the in this news brief (and that's DRM as in "Digital Radio Mondiale", not the DRM we all know and hate) from the Digital AM Radio development Consotium, called for digital AM broadcast to start in 2001. Whenever digital AM does start (if it hasn't already), there may well be an AM renaissance, with many AM stations getting back to musical programming. The only other thing I remember right now is that I believe there are going to be multiple digital channels layered in with the analog broadcast, to give a quality of sound never heard before over free broadcast.

  11. Can't Imagine no DRM by brandido · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't that the RIAA is going to be happy with broadcasting Digital CD quality music for free without some sort of DRM provisions. Anybody know if the Digital Radio will include any sort of Broadcast Flag to disable recording? The article has Commissioner Kathleen Abernathy claiming that "We don't get many items where it's a win-win for everyone. There's no down side." From what I've seen, the RIAA sees a downside anytime there is Audio content that is digitized without protection.

    Favorite quote from article:
    Digital broadcasts use the same language as computers - a series of on and off electronic pulses.

    Now that is insightful!

    --
    First Falcon-1 to orbit, then Falcon-9. Then I can die a happy man.
  12. IBOC by David+E.+Myers · · Score: 5, Informative
    This technique is also called IBOC, for In-Band On-Channel, since it coexists with existing analog signals. The brand name for the service is HD Radio.

    Can it be "CD-quality" at about 96 kbps? We'll see.

    A good site for learning more about IBOC is Radio World Online.

  13. Nice, but... by gpinzone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The Federal Communications Commission voted 4-0 to adopt digital radio technology created by iBiquity Digital Corp., a company backed by large broadcasters including ABC and Viacom. "

    I don't have a lot of confidence that this new technology won't be tainted with nasty things like DRM, forced commercials, etc.

    "The digital broadcasts will be free, unlike the subscriber services offered by Sirius Satellite Radio and XM Satellite Radio Holdings, which beam music and talk to radios from satellites."

    Yeah, until they want to start offering "Premium" channels.

    "Supporters say the new technology will bring CD-quality sound to FM broadcasts, an end to static for AM and new data features."

    The term CD-quality gets thrown around to loosely. I'm assuming the stream uses a lossy compression scheme like streaming MP3, OGG, etc. It may be good, but probably not truly CD quality.

  14. You need to ask yoursefl what you realy want? by jcrb · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Digital simulcast of your local stations gets you just that, your local stations.

    I am perfectly happy to pay XM my $9.95 to bring me Fox News, BBC World Service, C-Span, CNET Radio :-), NASCAR, etc etc... and the music is good too, hell on *average* I hear the Sisters of Mercy on XM Fred, more times in one month than I have ever heard them in my entire life on comercial radio.

    In this case the saying that you get what you pay for really does apply.

    --
    -jon
  15. Why so long? by Jouster · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Digital technology has been around forever. Why are they finally moving now?

    Three reasons:
    1. Companies had extreme fears of perfect digital copies of works from the radio that were the same as what was on store shelves. Now that they have a better product, SACDs, to sell, they can afford to give away lower-quality versions for comparatively small radio licensing fees.
    2. Digital broadcasting equipment has finally come down in price, and, more importantly, the proliferation of digital tuners and MP3 receivers have proven that electronics can be built into car audio players at low cost.
    3. Finally, Sirius and XM have been making some waves with their coast-to-coast, good stations, but that's really more of a retention quality than a marketing quality. (How do we know if we like a particular DJ if we've never heard the station, which we wouldn't if we don't have the system?) Their biggest, best marketing move is "universal reception, digital quality." The digital radio folks can't promise the former, but the latter can be done very easily. After so long, the radio stations, which feared losing the listeners to CDs if they let them record their favorite songs, have come around to, "Well, if we don't give them the quality, someone else will--at a better profit margin!"
    4. And a fourth, bonus reason: with the slump in computer sales, Circuit City needed something new to sell the geeks. ;)
    Jouster
  16. Re:Sure, it may be free... by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 5, Funny
    you'll be paying with your ears - by listening to commercials.


    Yes, but with the clarity of digital radio, maybe I can finally hear and understand the fast talking 'legalese' at the end of some of the promotional ads.... :)

  17. Well Let's See by asv108 · · Score: 3, Informative
    We have only 2 major satellite companies: Direct TV and Dish Network, they want to merge to create one major DSS company? It's pretty obvious why they turned this one down, what's news about this story is that it's even a story. If the administration and the courts would actually uphold antitrust laws, they would have never even attempted this merger.

    I believe they were trying to use cable companies as the reason for merging since satellite customers only make 25% of the pay TV market, but a large amount of DSS customers have no other choice but satellite. Go take a drive in a rural area and you will see a dish mounted on top of every trailer.

  18. Oh great, that's all I need... by CSG_SurferDude · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh great, that's all I need...

    Digial quality Britney, Christina, and a bunch of Boy Bands.

    Excuse, me, I think I'll Pass.

    1. Re:Oh great, that's all I need... by ocie · · Score: 3, Funny

      They should make the radio cache the songs. This way, they could just transmit a command like "play boyband X song Y" Since there is a limited playlist, this could really free up some bandwidth.

      --
      JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
  19. Could be a good thing by andyring · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've had XM Radio in my car for several months, and really enjoy it. When I go back to regular radio, I have to stop myself from hitting buttons to see the song title and artist, etc., as I can with my XM. If this type of technology will be incorporated into digital radio (why wouldn't it be?), it could be a pretty cool thing. We hear from time to time about goofy systems using your cell phone where you can call a number and automatically purchase the CD containing the song playing on the radio (I don't think that idea ever took off) but I could see something more along these lines with digital radio.

    But, I could see this end up like digital TV as well, where it's hindered with restrictions, requires expensive equipment, and will ultimately (likely) result in the FCC forcing it upon us. I can see five or ten years down the road when my beautiful vacuum-tube antique console stereo won't have any radio signals to pick up! Ultimately, sadly, this is probably a way for the big shots to control more and more of what we listen to and how we listen to it, not to mention it'll probably make obsolete the nice, expensive receiver I purchased recently (thinking I'd use it for years to come).

    Why can't the cronies at the FCC get it through their thick, ugly skulls to LET THE MARKET dictate what happens! C'mon, it's basic economics. Look at satellite TV and digital cable. No government agency forced this upon us, but people buy it in droves! Granted, digital radio isn't being forced on us (yet), but it's probably on the horizon.

  20. Already here in the UK but... by class_A · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Digital Radio is already up and running in the UK, although very few people are listening to it!

    I work for a large ILR station and whilst we now broadcast digitally, I don't think anyone is really interested in promoting the fact in the short term.

    The cheapest standalone DAB radio is £99. I think there is a USB device for a PC which retails around £50. Most people have 5-6 radios to replace if they want to go digital! Plus there is no portable, battery powered solution right now.

    Listening numbers may increase in the next couple of years as car manufacturers start to build DAB tuners in to the cars, as Ford will start doing shortly.

    Most of the national digital radio broadcasters also get their channels carried on the Sky Digital TV platform otherwise they would have next to no listeners!

    In Europe, we use a standard called Eureka 147, which is referred to as Digital Audio Broadcasting or DAB. This is incompatible with the system that is being proposed for the USA.

    Then there's the content problem. Existing stations merely rebroadcast and most of the new specialist stations are automated so you may as well listen to your iPod anyway. The only group seem to be doing anything useful with the technology is the good old BBC.

    1. Re:Already here in the UK but... by dre80 · · Score: 3, Informative

      DAB has been available in Canada for some time now, they've been advertising for it now for over 2 years. Take a look at the DAB Canada site, it explains the technology and lists the stations that already broadcast a digital signal. I know you can buy car receivers ready for DAB signals already...

  21. they're screwing community radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work as a DJ for a community radio station (WTJU wtju.radio.virginia.edu) and we just discussed this system at a recent meeting. It costs a fortune (in community radio terms) to upgrade to this system _and_ it requires a new device on the listener's end. iBiquity's ubiquity (sorry, I had to) could easily kill off another whole bunch of community radio stations, possibly mine.

    Did the big guys (Clear Channel, etc.) know this would be the case when they lobbied for it? Of course! They're simply trying to kill off more competition.

    As it is, community radio stations are having a really tough time. WTJU's FCC license is owned by the Univerity of Virginia (which provides _some_ support for the station), which means that they can sell it to the highest bidder if they want. This is happening all over the place to financially strapped universities. When an FCC license goes for 10+ million dollars, and their budget from the state is skimpy, it's a pretty attractive proposition for the schools.

    This blows.

    -Dan

    p.s. So do the unrealistic reporting regulations for internet broadcasting of radio. WTJU could have it's payments to BMI, ASCAP, etc., for internet broadcasting paid for by a non-profit (can't remember which one, it's something along the lines of PBS), but we can't afford to keep track of all of the information they require with the filings.

  22. Read their site. by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.ibiquity.com/navframe.html?03content.ht ml

    I have to be careful not to say too much, since as their site is semi-Slashdotted, it's hard to say how much of this is public info and how much is "iBiquity proprietary" (I work at one of iBiquity's equipment partners, and have been working closely with some aspects of their system)

    Basically, when the FCC allocated the current FM spectrum, they allowed for a LOT of channel spacing for special features in the analog sidebands and also to take into account inferior receivers/bad transmitters.

    Modern transmitters can now output a much cleaner spectrum. Specifically, the FCC allocated a "guard band" around each FM channel, where an ideal FM station shouldn't have emissions but is allowed to "spill over". The guard band power can only be 1/100 of the power of the main band, but thanks to the SNR advantages of digital modulation, a digital signal needs only around 1/100 the power of an FM signal for the same range.

    So IBOC can allow an FM signal and a digital signal to coexist on the *same* channel. A cleaned-up FM signal in the main band, and a digital signal in the "guard bands".

    An eventual upgrade path is an all-digital signal, replacing the FM portion with a digital signal for greater bandwidth. This is a while off, due to the compatibility issues and also due to technical issues.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Read their site. by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's probably your receiver. It most likely has an extra-wide IF passband/bad frontent filtering that is simply allowing the main carrier to pass.

      In addition to the "guard band", the FM band has insanely wide channel spacing. Transmissions in the guard band that meet spec won't be noticed by your receiver, but if the main carrier itself is strong enough, it'll punch through your frontend filtering, no matter how clean its spectral purity is you'll be screwed. "Adjacent channel power", i.e. emissions on the next proper channel over, is basically not allowed for FM stations.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  23. Yup... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that can be sort of assumed.

    I think that that receivers will not be the problem with market penetration - We've seen from the pricing of Sirius, etc. units that it won't be TOO bad.

    The barrier to adoption will be the broadcasters. It's going to be an EXPENSIVE upgrade for them.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Yup... by Sogol · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is currently estimated at $75,000 for a small radio station.

  24. They must have heard.... by freeze128 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...that I don't listen to the radio now that I have a CD-changer in my car. Certainly, I'm not the only one who despises the radio. I stopped listening because of too many commercial breaks, too LONG commercial breaks, inconvenient commercial breaks, and ridiculously short playlists.

    Sometimes when i'm just driving to work, I get the tail end of a song and then 17 minutes of commercials. I hear one song, and then I'm at work. It's just not worth it.

    1. Re:They must have heard.... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought I was the only one to quit listening to radio because of that. I used to listen to a talk radio station on my way to work in the morning - Half hour commute - one way - When I realized all I was getting was a weather report (one minute) and five minutes of content. Hooked up with 24 minutes of commercials.

      I occaisionally listen to a classical station that has no commercials - or more often, just enjoy the silence of my ride.

      I wonder what happened to quality instead of quantity in advertising - Charge more for the ad time and have less commercials that way I am not deluged by unwanted annoying ads, and the radio station still makes the same amount.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  25. This Sucks by mozumder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FCC should have at least chosen a different digital modulation scheme, that although may not be backwards compatible, would enable bandwith to open up. I would rather have 500+ channels from multiple local vendors than 20 ClearChannel/ABC owned station all broadcasting the same useless fucking Eminem/Nelly song over and over. Right now the FCC is not taking applications for any more FM radio stations (although thousand try to apply). The move to digital would have allowed more people to enter the market, but instead the FCC didn't open up bandwith using a different scheme.

    Also, why a proprietary audio encoding scheme? Why not open source, royalty free Ogg Vorbis? And a good digital encoding scheme doesn't need to have fixed bandwitdh requirements, either - some channels could be 8kbps mono, while other channels could be full 1Mbps surround+data/video, all using the same decoder/tuners.

    I think its time to drop AM/FM/VHF/UHF entirely.

  26. Re:ugly: directtv proposes selling slots by RedX · · Score: 4, Informative
    to make this go in a revised plan, the two conspirators are proposing that directtv sell enough satellite orbital slots before jan 21 to enable a competitor to come about

    Actually, everything I read made it sound like they had to have their revised plan in before the FCC voted, and the companies had just this week asked the FCC to delay the vote while they presented a revised plan, which the FCC did not do. I think this vote effectively kills this merger, and I really see GM selling Hughes/DirecTV off to the highest bidder at this point. Rupert Murdoch fought vigorously to prevent this merger, so I'd be surprised if someone besides Murdoch ends up with DirecTV.

    The revised deal that Dish/Hughes was basically an offer to create/improve other satellite competitors since the FCC's major problem was that this merger essentially created a satellite monopoly. The first part of the plan was to lease space on their spectrum to Comcast, who is starting their own satellite service. Comcast has the spectrum to offer satellite service everywhere in the US except for the West Coast, and Dish/DirecTV would've provided them with the necessary spectrum to offer nationwide service as well as the ability to offer more channels. The second part of the plan was to offer other companies the ability to resell and bill for DirecTV/Dish service, similar to what DirecTV currently does with Pegasus in certain parts of the country.

  27. wonderful by Raiford · · Score: 4, Funny
    Now I can get CD quality lousy programming. At least with satellite I am not stranded in the programming desert that I find in broadcast radio here in Sacramento

    --
    "player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
  28. just more proprietary equipment... by pro-mpd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    sure, it's a "standard," but think about this for a minute. gm vehicles have been coming with xm for a while. what happens to the people that bought xm? what about people who want digital radio but have a radio they want to keep, or a high-end head unit that they bought for quality but can't get any models with digital? car radios need to be more like home stereos. we're dealing with products that are basically a closed system, no expandability which need to be replaced whenever we want a new feature. not to mention that of the few forays into this matter, only a few are truly useful, namely the car stereos with line inputs. screw the "xm ready" proprietary hookups. it needs to be more universal.

    then again, i want a toilet made out of solid gold, but it's just not in the cards, baby. sorry for the rant.

  29. No additional spectrum by IEEEmember · · Score: 4, Informative
    To address repeated comments about spectrum usage, no additional spectrum is required.

    Please see Digital Radio Takes to the Road specfically the section on IBOC (In-band/On-channel). Specifically see this figure which presents how the data is added to the current AM and FM channels.

  30. In "CD Quality" We Trust by jukal · · Score: 5, Insightful
    > It allows "CD quality" digital signals to be simulcast

    Try searching for example /. for "CD quality", just in the "stories" part this string is matched hundreds of times. When did "CD quality" become the standard for excellent sound quality. And why? Is it because you can call anything to be of "CD quality" - if your quality prooves to be crap, then just select a lousy CD.

    Although this might sound like a joke, it would be interesting to back-trace whether someone or some organisation started marketing this standard actively some time in the recent history. Or is just an accident?

    1. Re:In "CD Quality" We Trust by JPelzer · · Score: 3, Informative

      > When did "CD quality" become the standard for excellent sound quality. And why?

      If you really want to know, CD quality (44.1KHz, 16bit) is the defacto standard because
      A) It was the first digital format that consumers adopted, and was clearly superior to analog, and

      B) Because 44KHz is the lowest sampling frequency that does not produce audible artifacts from sampling the CD's target 20-20KHz bandwidth (with a 2KHz buffer for noise filter clamping) as the noise introduced by quantization is above the range of (most) human hearing and can be safely filtered.

      Now, one can debate bit depths, because it is likely that 16bit vs. 24 bit might be audible to some people, but sampling rate is pretty much a non-starter. You really don't need higher than 44KHz for playback. You won't hear a difference.

      During actual (studio) mixing, you want to keep the bitrate and sample rate higher... While I think 'cd quality' is good enough, continuous requantization at the minimum levels CAN produce audible artifacts. So 96KHz/24bit actually has a place at the mixing stage. You don't need it for playback though.

      So, CD quality is the standard because anything 'better' requires more storage, with no audible results, and the technology of the CD at the time very handily held 74 minutes of audio at that rate, enough to fit a normal-sized album. There was some science involved with the initial selection of the sampling rate, and the bit depth just came about from the fact that 16 bits is an even byte-depth, and the minimum required so that no one complained about quanitization anomalies.

  31. Re:Good news...or is it? by Zathrus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What crack are you on?

    DTV (which includes HDTV) uses no more bandwidth than current analog signals do. It's just that the technology is 50 years more advanced - you can do things in the same bandwidth that were previously impossible. And, better yet, it requires less spacing between bands because we're that much better about broadcasting too.

    I don't know about this new digital radio, but I'd be surprised if it used more bandwidth than an FM station.

    As for your concerns - one of the biggest proponents of DTV are the emergency services (police, fire, ambulance). Because they're in desperate need of bandwidth and Congress promised them a chunk of the current analog TV spectrum. Until DTV has completely replaced analog they can't get it. And they can't simply change their systems out and use the same bandwidth - it would require every single emergency service in the US to change at the same time, or else you'd wind up with areas of mixed mode traffic that are unusable for both systems.

    Military? Uh... the military is not in need of additional broadcast bandwidth. In fact, they're giving a lot of it back. If you think the bandwidth magic performed by DTV is incredible you haven't seen the military systems yet. Most comms are now point-to-point via laser or directional antenna to either an airborne platform or a satellite. Broadcast is spread spectrum and digital. Both use heavy encryption. The military is feeling the crunch, but in other ways -- the dependance on sat comms means that they don't have enough bandwidth on the sats themselves. That can be solved by finding additional orbital slots and launching new birds with better comms equipment.

    CBs and cellphones hardly need more bandwidth. Unless, of course, you're talking about illegal CBs that have had their wattage pumped way beyond FCC regs. Imagine that - they cause problems to everything on nearby or resonant frequencies. This is why the FCC limited them, and why there are newer technologies using different spectra and different encoding (often digital). Cellphone bandwidth is a total non-issue.

    As for your pseudo-science claims, you've managed to ignore all the real science in bandwidth usage and allocation thus far, so I'm not surprised you're bashing a channel that makes no attempt at real science and instead just shows entertainment. Oh, and it uses no over-the-air bandwidth either.

  32. This will never take off by Klaruz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It suffers from the same problem as web radio. You're sending a digital stream to a user's reciever. Even with a flag, a user could bypass it and copy digital quality music from it. At least that's the theory behind the taxes that web radio must pay to the RIAA.

    Essentialy that $.0007 (for now, legislation is in the works to change it) is to pay for the users who will copy the music off the streaming station. Analog broadcasters don't pay it because they're analog. They wanted digital to pay it because it would mean web radio never got a chance to foothold and give them some competition. The RIAA wants it so they can line their pockets, unlike ASCAP/BMI (that most web radio stations pay and all analog pay) that goes right to the artists.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  33. The RIAA shouldn't care that much by ianscot · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Until "zany" morning show hosts are prohibited by law from cutting into, fading out, and otherwise shredding music on the air, I can't see the RIAA sweating this one that much. Sure, the sound of "Dangerous Dan the Morning Man" and his "Zoo Crew" of backups might be crystal clear, but nobody wants to record it at the start and finish of "Thunder Road" for posterity.

    If this substantially increases the range of local FM stations, suppressing static until the signal's at the point of total breakup, it's just an enhanced advertizing venue to the RIAA people. Their canned programming lists -- and they already feel in control of that area of music distribution -- can just get to more people.

    They understand radio, it's a broadcast medium, not a point-to-point one.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
  34. I Still like SCA by ch-chuck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An ancient system, low quality muzak, Subsiderary Communications Authorization - commercial free elevator music! It's supposed to be a pay service for offices etc, but with the right decoder from Ramsey Electronics and connection to an FM set (has to pickup before deemphasis as it's up around 67Khz in the audio). Little known and fairly easy to pick up. But there's only one left in my metro area, probably they're dying off. I love it, I really do! There's no commercials, no vocals or words, nothing offensive or nerve wracking, no politics, news or sports, just plain, bland wallpaper music, ALL the time, heheh.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  35. Re:YEAH! No crappy DISHNET! by -Surak- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, the Dish PVR really sucks, doesn't it. It runs Linux, it's completely hackable, is standards complient, and you don't have to pay $10 or whatever for a monthly subscription just to get your program listings. What a lame product. Yes, the early versions were a little buggy, but it's mostly worked out now. The TIVO was bug-free from day 1?

    If ANYONE really thinks that preventing this merger is in the public interest, I'd really like some of whatever they're smoking. The FCC is bought and paid for by the CATV industry, as we've seen before with the must-carry rules for satellite and local rebroadcasting rules. Let's look at the facts:

    1) Without a merger, it is not cost effective for either company to rebroadcast local channels is ALL markets. This means the cable companies will continue to have a monopoly on local content in these areas (yes, a lucky few can use an off-air antenna, but I don't know anyone that can get a decent signal this way). Echostar has committed to provide local service to ALL US markets within two years if the merger goes through.

    2) Echostar has committed to having a flat pricing model across the US. This means that in order to screw the rural customer, they would have to raise their prices so much that they would be much higher than CATV in markets where it is available. Since the the vast majority of wealthy markets (big spenders on PPV & movie channels - where providers make the big bux) are well covered by cable, it would not make economic sense to screw the poor rural customer to lose the rich suburban customer.

    3) An argument has been made that DirecTV users will need to shell out for new equipment. Echostar has stated that NO ONE will need to buy new equipment to receive the same services that they currently receive. They will provide new equipment for people that subscribe to services that are moved to DVB from the proprietary mess that DirecTV uses.

    4) Neither Echostar or DVB have subscriber bases big enough to compete with cable companies for program purchases. This means that they pay more for programming that they resell, and have a harder time keeping costs down. That said, they are STILL well below most cable pricing.

    People need to understand that although a merger will create a monopoly for DBS, it will create competition for TV providers - which is what really matters to joe consumer. Until satellite can deliver LOCAL broadcasts into all markets, they can't reasonably compete with cable - most people are not willing to give up local news and local used car dealer ads.

    The cable industry already has a monopoly, and they have lobbied the FCC very hard to keep it. This merger would ruin the monopoly they have had over the majority of american households for 50 years.

    Who honestly believes that anything the cable TV industry is FOR (preventing this merger) is in the best interest of the public?

  36. Will it cost more? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It allows "CD quality" digital signals to be simulcast by stations along with their traditional analog feed.

    Sounds like a "digital audio transmission". Don't radio stations have to pay (a lot) extra to broadcast that due to the Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act of 1995?

    If not I think I'm going to start my own radio station - over 802.11b.

  37. DAB in the UK by fiddlesticks · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some FAQs

    Some technical FAQs (from the BBC)

    We've had DAB in the UK since 1995. (Don't know why the UK is so ahead on some of the broadcasting innovations, but hey. Maybe it's the BBC :)

    Takeup has been slow, gradually starting to take off with a) Cheap (~150USD) sets and b) digital radio being able to be received on Digital TV sets as well

    Sound quality is excellent, reception seems miles better than analogue radio, usability great - tune via genre, station, etc. Newer DAB sets have track/ artists info displayed on the set.

    I haven't yet succumbed, as I get many new channels through my DTV set, and also as I live in London where there are many, many local/ pirate stations to choose between

    If I lived outside a city, you betcha.

  38. More info at Wired by dirvish · · Score: 5, Informative

    2 good articles over at Wired. One on the approval of the digital standard and another on the merger rejection.

  39. Re:why can't they make more FM quality stations? by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Informative
    Each FM station is currently allocated 200kHz of spectrum in the united states. The FM band currently sits between 88 and 108MHz, inclusive. That leaves 99 channels 200kHz wide a piece.

    That's a lot of channels

    Now, the reason that you can't have 99 radio stations in a given market is because the FCC has established what are called Basic Trade Areas, or BTAs. Each station on a given frequency is assigned a BTA that is determined by running a longley-rice propagation model based on tower height and the effective isotropic radiated power, EIRP. There are 3 classes of FM stations, and each is allowed a certain tower height and a certain EIRP. Once the propagation model is run, it is overlaid with the US Census Bureau's population density models to determine how many people that FM station will cover. Once that FM station is given its BTA with so many recipients, any new station that applies for a construction permit, REGARDLESS OF THE FREQUENCY OR LOCATION, must PROVE that it will not interfere with that stations BTA, if the propagation model run on that proposed station shows at all that it will be throwing power into the established station's BTA in a manner that will reduce the number of people who can receive the established station. Due to the nasty nature of reactance modulated radio (FM), there is a high potential for intermodulation distortion, third order products, and many other nasty phenomena that will cause interference to desired stations. The capture effect of FM can mitigate this to some degree, and this effect is precisely the reason FM was chosen for its band.

    Herein lies a problem with massive digital broadcasting. Sure, if you chose a datarate, say 128kbps, and used digital modulation such a QPSK, 16QAM, or some other amplitude/phase modulated signal, you would use less spectrum, but you have to be MUCH more careful about interference and signal to noise ratio. FM does not require a huge S/N ratio to work, and it only has to be about 3dB above an on-frequency interferer for the capture effect to fix the problem. However, digital modulation methods aren't so immune. In the case of something like 256QAM, the symbols are very close to each other in magnatude and phase, so it doesn't take much noise to corrupt a symbol.

    It should also be noted that the FCC has settled on an amplitude modulated method (8VSB) for DTV in the US while Europe uses COFDM, which is a lot more like FM (because it's orthogonal, COFDM has much less intersymbol interference). I'm aware of tests run by a consulting firm in the DC area that showed conclusively that COFDM was the better choice over 8VSB. FM is also used for the audio subcarrier in analog television.

    So, the moral of the story is, you can't just have more.... :)

  40. Ibiquity is in band on channel digital... by Newer+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ibuiquity is on channel FM. A digital carrier is inserted at a level about 20 db below the main carrier. Because of the 'capture effect' of FM modulation, a signal 20 db down will not interfere with the main (analog)FM signal. However there is a caveat: The above is true only when the FM receiver is in full limiting (strong signal). With a weak signal, all bets are off. By the way, Ibquity runs with a (MASSIVE) 96 Kbits/sec, using a modified form of APT-X compression. Try listening to a 96K MP3 file and you'll get the idea of how good (or bad, depending upon your point of view) Digital FM will sound. By the way, Digital AM radio by Ibquity runs with a (HUGE) 32Kbits/second stream. It just don't sound too good....

  41. 5th commissioner being held up by politics by dcgaber · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is a very timely question. It is answered in this article and this op-ed.

    Basically, because Senator Leahy is holding up several judicial nominees, the Republican have fired back and put holds on several Democrat nominees, including Jonathan Adelstein, a staffer for Senate Majority leader Daschle and the current nominee for the 5th FCC spot.

    Traditionally, the FCC is filled with 5 commissioners, the majority and minority leader of the House and Senate choosing one each, and the President choosing the Chair.

    This is actually a big mess right now and causing some to observe they have not seen this type of rancor EVER in the Senate (and that is saying a lot).

    Meanwhile a gripe about the moderation system. I think it is ridiculous I can't mod any posts under this article now that I have chosen to add something to it. I comment on articles I am interested in, and I mod in threads I am interested, but I can't do both...that sucks (and yes, I understand the reasons to do so. But given the choice, I would rather comment than mod, but the best is to be able to do both).

  42. Reasons for rejection of merger by wyopittsa · · Score: 3, Informative

    The FCC and DOJ were particularly concerned that the merger of DirectTV and Echostar would effectivle create a monopoly. Charlie Ergan and the rest of the advocates of the merger argued that the merger was necessary in order to effectively compete with cable. The problem is that in many areas of the country (rural areas, and more than you might think) consumers have a choice of either satellite or nothing. So, the merger would have effectively been a 2:1 and created a monoply in many areas of the country. While it's true that competitive efficiencies may have increased in some urban areas (big satellite company v. cable), the FCC's general policy is that creating competive efficiencies in one market isn't worth creating a monoply in other markets.

  43. I call BS by _damnit_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I call bullshit! The Republicans did the same thing to Clinton for six years. This is simply what happens when the White House and Senate are held by different parties. You can't expect Dems to approve the conservative right to life'rs that Bush sends up there. Toward the end of his term, he will send up a load of more centrist appointees (with hidden right-wing gems mixed in) to try to get some seats filled prior to a dem taking over. It happened with Clinton and Bush the First, it'll happen again. Don't sweat it too much.

    --


    _damnit_

    It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
  44. Re:good lord no! by SoCalChris · · Score: 3, Informative

    Am quality sounds like a 56k rated mp3

    Seriously, how great is the sound quality of stuff that is played on AM anyways? Probably 99% of the stuff on AM is either talk radio, or music that was recorded decades before digital music was even thought of. I'm sure MP3 encoded at 56k would be more than sufficient for AM broadcasts.

  45. Alfy says What It's All About by yusing · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What's Digital FM really about?

    Here's all you need to know:

    (Yes, the article is about LPFM.)

    "What it comes down to -- again -- is money, pure and simple. If an LPFM station takes a slot on the FM dial, then it's one less corporate FM station that can make money off of that allotted frequency. Another argument posed by NAB was that, with the appearance of digital FM, corporate radio stations need all the bandwidth they can get because digital FM takes twice the amount of bandwidth needed by conventional FM broadcasting [emphasis added]. Corporate FM wants to give you, the listener, "CD quality" sound. Digital FM has failed to produce the desired effect, thus making "hogging the FM dial" another groundless NAB contention.

    "With Kennard out of the way, the current FCC Chairman Michael Powell is considerably less tolerant of LPFM. And why not, since the NAB is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington, DC, and can pretty much whip out its wallet and buy whomever they want."

    --

    "You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson

  46. Stations currently testing this tech by charnov · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is a list of stations that is CURRENTLY testing this technology. I have no idea what type of receiver you need for this.

    WNEW-FM (102.7) in New York; WETA-FM (90.9), WHFS-FM (99.1), WJFK-FM (106.7), WAMU-FM (88.5), and WTOP-AM (1500), in Washington, D.C.; KLLC-FM (97.3), KDFC (102.1) and KABL-AM (960) in San Francisco; WILC-AM (900) and WPOC-FM (93.1) in Baltimore; WNOP-AM (740) in Cincinnati, WPST-FM (97.5), and WBJB-FM (90.5) in Central, N.J.; KWNR-FM (95.5), KNPR-FM (89.5), and KSFN-AM (1140) in Las Vegas; and WGRV-FM (105.1) and WWJ-AM (950) in Detroit; WWMO-FM (98.9), in Orlando.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  47. Re:I would rather have a little static, thank you by AlphaOne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As far as I know, DirecTV doesn't put a lot of error correction into their signals... loss of a block of data just scrambles up your picture.

    You're forgetting something, though... a digital signal takes up MUCH less space than an analog one, especially when you're encoding voice or music (MP3 or Vorbis, anyone?). Since the signal is much smaller, you can encode error correction in the remaining bandwidth.

    This means that what you're listening to through the speakers isn't a real-time signal... it's delayed slightly because you want an opportunity to not only receive the primary signal but the redundant error-correction stream as well.

    If you were to interleave all of this data over a period of 30 seconds, you could conceivably have a drop-out of about that long in the signal and still have full-quality audio playing out the speakers.

    Of course, if your signal drop-out exceeds the available correction data, you're right in that you'd get nothing (or something other than static).

    --
    All opinions presented here aren't mine.
  48. Right about now... by Zen+Mastuh · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...Echostar's Board of Directors is wondering who the hell forgot to give the check to the GOP last week.

    --
    "What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
  49. RIAA Sues Radio Stations for Giving Away FreeMusic by cpeterso · · Score: 4, Funny

    RIAA Sues Radio Stations for Giving Away Free Music

    LOS ANGELES--The Recording Industry Association of America filed a $7.1 billion lawsuit against the nation's radio stations Monday, accusing them of freely distributing copyrighted music.

    "It's criminal," RIAA president Hilary Rosen said. "Anyone at any time can simply turn on a radio and hear a copyrighted song. Making matters worse, these radio stations often play the best, catchiest song off the album over and over until people get sick of it. Where is the incentive for people to go out and buy the album?"

    According to Rosen, the radio stations acquire copies of RIAA artists' CDs and then broadcast them using a special transmitter, making it possible for anyone with a compatible radio-wave receiver to listen to the songs. ...

  50. Superstation by Scratch-O-Matic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Satellite lets you have all the channels no matter where you are in the coutry

    A few years ago I did quite a bit of flying over Japan. I noticed that there seemed to be some sort of "Superstation" up and down the country. As soon as one broadcast began to fade from my scanner, I could tune in another identical broadcast (though on a different frequency.) If something similar was done in the U.S., but all on the same freq, there could be a digital superstation from coast to coast.

    1. Would current FCC rules allow this?

    2. Does anyone here know what the deal was with the station in Japan?

    --


    Evil is the money of root.
  51. Bastards! by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The Federal Communications Commission has voted 4-0 to reject a $26 billion merger between satellite TV providers Echostar Communications and Hughes Electronics."

    Hughes and Echostar were saying that such a merger would give them the hardware to give more areas access to local stations through the satellite signals. Now that that's fallen through, it seems the only way I'll get decent reception for Enterprise is by paying ~$12 a month to Cox for their lifeline service.

    Or does anybody know of a decent low-profile VHF/UHF antenna?

  52. Re:good lord no! by Shelled · · Score: 3, Informative
    Mod this up. Normal radio station practice is to record all music to hard drive in (usually) MP2 format and then multi-band compress the hell out of it before broadcast. Most music you'll hear on IBOC will be double-encoded MPG with extreme processing accentuating the noise and distortion coding generates. It will not sound pretty. It also been my experience that codecs don't respond well to highly processed audio, my guess being because of the increased L-R it generates.

    In Canada we can run 192 to 224 kbps and still have a dim hope of preserving a semblance of quality.