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AOL Threatens Peng, Demands Domain Handover
nutznboltz writes "According to the Peng project website AOL has sent them a cease-and-desist letter claiming that Peng, a GPLed software project is commerically exploiting AOL and has until Oct 15th to hand over the pengaol.com domain name." Update: 10/12 17:45 GMT by T : As several readers have pointed out, the domain name in question is actually pengaol.org, rather than pengaol.com.
Using aol.com in your domain name for something AOL related is just asking for trouble.
That has a / or . in its domain name. Since every one has that in their url, everyone with a domain name will be recieving a cease and desist letter from Rob Malda soon.
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
So... a big corporation sees something that resembles its name, and without even investigating into what it actually does, it sics the lawyers on 'em....
They're not too bright if they don't realize that it has the potential to expand their business.... All it does is give people using OS's other than Win/Mac the opportunity to use their absolutely trustworthy and splendid service (/sarcasm). They still have to pay AOL for it. Peng's not making a profit on it. How is this harmful to AOL again?
Oh wait. On the "About Peng" page, it says it's a "reverse ingeneering" [sic] of AOL's technology, so it must be evil.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
To fix this, hand over pengaol.com and go register pengdialer.com, which is still available.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It looks like the name in question is pengaol.org, and they've moved the site to another location. So they've either already given up, or are just getting ready to just in case.
They are asked to hand over the pengaol.org domain name. Not the pengaol.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
pengdialer.org is available as a domain. Why would you specifically use someone else's trademark in your name, knowing that companies with money will persue a change?
Overrated / Underrated : Moderation
Registrant:
STEPHANE GUTH (PENGAOL-DOM)
3 Rue Des Vergers
BLIESBRUCK,57200
FR
Domain Name: PENGAOL.ORG
Administrative Contact:
GUTH, STEPHANE (SGM450) birdyisme@AOL.COM
3 Rue Des Vergers
BLIESBRUCK, 57200
FR
+33387022871
Technical Contact:
Departement Noms de domaine (CP1146-ORG) internic@AMEN.FR
AMEN.FR - Agence des Medias Numeriques
12/14, rond-point des Champs-elysees
PARIS
FRANCE
+33 1 46 51 95 60
Fax- +33 1 46 51 95 60
Record expires on 30-Jun-2003.
Record created on 30-Jun-2001.
Database last updated on 12-Oct-2002 13:39:17 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
PARIS.AMEN.FR 217.174.192.229
NS2.AMEN.FR 195.154.205.4
I'd suggest that Peng move to the domain and tell AOL what they really think.
BTW, seeing as Peng is French, are there any Nazi references or links on AOL? Let's hope not for AOL's sake.
Seriously though, what were they thinking? AOL _is_ a trademark. Dont get me wrong, I generally agree with a lot of the anti-megacorp stuff (software patents, the evils of the DMCA etc) but in this case they are clearly using AOLs trademark. It seems pretty justified to me.
were you expecting to see a sig here? perhaps you'd rather see the inside of an ambulance!
I didn't even know that existed. That solves all of the problems with AOL. I remember way back when I used AOL. It was an ok service provider. I didn't get busy signals like everyone else. The only gripe I ever had with AOL as in ISP was that in order to connect you had to run the bloated memory eating AOL software. Whereas for another dial up ISP I could use the super lite built in windows dial up networking. I don't want to have to use up all my RAM just to establish a connection. I always ended up minimizing the AOL software and using netscape or other programs.
PENG, which I didn't know about until just now, appears to be the ultimate solution. It makes AOL exactly the same as every other dial-up ISP. No bloated software to load, and it works in linux!
I can see why aol is pissed though. Because of PENG there is at least one person out there who isn't seeing their ads and is probably getting better transfer rates because there isn't a crapload of software hogging the cpu and bandwith(with ads). So that's money lost for AOL. Admittedly it isn't much money lost. I mean how many people use linux and AOL? Two totally seperate groups of people.
Hopefully it will encourage AOL to not force its users to load a giant ad-laden piece of software to connect, or at least to re-compile that bloated piece of software for linux.
Nah, I don't think they're that intelligent.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
"Arent Fox asks us as a first step, to suppress every reference to the Aol brand name and logo, and after another (rather sinuous) argument, to hand over the pengaol.org domain name. We have to comply and answer before october 14th, or they will inform Aol of their action."
Note the last sentence. It sounds to me like it's not AOL initiating this, but in fact a sleezy law firm looking to create themselves some from by finding people to sue. They're probably hoping that peng will not comply, and thus generate themselves a juicy law suit.
Go pick on someone your own size. Gaim, Peng, Jabber, etc., seems like AOL just likes to harass non-profit, open-source projects. Come on, these people are working (mostly for free) on the software, giving out the software for free, and releasing the source code too. AOL should be ashamed of itself for for harassing people who are just trying to help their fellow man.
On a hunch, I did whois on aaol.com, baol.com, caol.com, daol.com, eaol.com, ...then I got bored.
It looks like they better start suing, they've got a lot of others using their trademark.
Arent Fox
Why not drop them a line.
It seems that looking at sites/articles is not a problem among certain /.-ters. If one looks well at this letter, then he may note that they only have taken a look the the name of the site...
Besides it seems that Peng's development came into a halt somewhere in August. This news is in the first page in French- "Peng ne sera plus maintenu" 03.08.2002. So, the claims come a little out of sight and rather harsh. Again, we see that lawyers are also bad readers, love to shoot first, blindly and stupidly.
The human mind is really good at spotting differences. When you read the words "Microsoft" and "Micro$oft" you instantly know that those are very different words. It therefore follows that domain names with different spellings are easily distinguishable and completely distinct.
The domain "micro$oft.com" is not in any way confusable with the domain "microsoft.com". They are different. You have to push different keys on the keyboard to get to these sites.
Now, if some buisness were to have a link to the "micro$oft.com" domain and say "Click here to get to MICROSOFT!" then THEY should get a C&D letter. NOT the owners of the "micro$oft.com" domain.
Any other use of litigation regarding particular choices of domain names is an abuse, and should be stopped.
-ZOD-
Of course, this is only a suggestion.
a ol /peng1.04.tar.gz
o l/ pengaol0.96.tar.gz
http://osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/peng
http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/penga
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
I don't think this is big enough for EFF but...
Perhaps a legal fund of some sort could be set up. It'll certainly get 20 bucks from me.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
Ding! "You've got Sued"
Bullshit. AOLSucks.com wouldn't have the impact without "aol" being part of the domain name. They successfully defended the domain under the auspices of fair use.
Just because the letters aol are part of your domain name doesn't give AOL the right to stomp down on your ass - even if the subject of your site is related to AOL.
If you're up to something infringing on their trademark like trying to make money off their good name, then yeah you're violating their mark. But this doesn't.
IANAL, but you should get one. They're really not all that expensive. Stand up to the bully. Tell AOL to fuck off.
I don't see how AOL are being harmed by this, since you still need to be signed up with them. Hopefully they'll keep the project going in spite of this harassment.
aebpr22.zip* eBookReader (old verson)/
TiVo MPEG/
ASPI Me (backdate to 1998)/ PanoTools/ WINE with DX/
Blizzard Jackboots/ peng1.04.tar.gz WMA crack (v7)/
Broadcast 2000/ skie/ Xolox/
DeCSS/ Streambox VCR 3.1b/ xp-stuff/
[user@host Suppressed]$
When will these idiots learn that attempts to suppress software only result in wider distribution. I hadn't heard of Peng until today: now I'm preserving a copy.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
I was just wondering - if you sell used
Toyotas (or parts), do you need to get permission
from Toyota to name your dealership
Bob's Toyotas of Smalltown?
Considered harmful.
Did you guys read there About page ?
they have a line that says,
"This program includes a reverse ingeenering of the Aol's protocol. "
Arent Fox guys must be drooling over that statement licking their DMCA plate.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
This is nothing new. AOL has been doing this to virtually any domain name that has the letters "A" "O" and "L" in sequential form for as long as I can remember.
I also had an a-o-l domain name. "EnhanceAOL.com" was my site before I got a cease and desist from Arent Fox claiming that I was diluting their trademark. My site was an aol add-on site - software that actually improved upon their client software (hence the term 'enhance aol'. They don't look at the "content" of your site. They don't care if your trying to save the poor starving children of the world. If you have "aol" somewhere in your domain, they're going to take it.
Don't believe me? I found this site: search.wipo.int which lists at least some of the AOL domains that have been repo-ed by AOL -- If anyone knows of a better source please post because I know there's been more.
From the Arent Fox website:
E-Commerce Transactions
Following are representative e-commerce and telecommunications transactions handled by Arent Fox attorneys:
AOL Legal and AOL Business Affairs. Represented AOL Legal and AOL Business Affairs in a multi-year, multi-million dollar strategic marketing alliance to offer Network Solutions= (NSI) domain name registration and value-added services globally across America Online, Inc. brands. Network Solutions= services will be available through co-branded sites across AOL, AOL.COM, CompuServe, Netscape Netcenter, Digital City, ICQ, and Spinner/Winamp, including the international services, making it easier and more convenient than ever for businesses and consumers to create an online presence.
I was just wondering, how can they respond to the letter if they only speak French?
Shouldn't the Lawyer send the letter in French?
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kier
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The words they use preclude this, because they call AOL their client. If AOL had not retained them, it would be a bald-faced lie and illegal under several laws. As I understand it, this is quite common in germany, actually.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
AOL makes its money from all the "ad-laden" content and services it spoonfeeds to its subscribers. So don't expect them to produce software that enables AOL users to ignore that content. Or, to allow someone else to do the same without a legal challenge.
AOL has dallied with Linux dialers in the past, getting, I believe, at least one to beta. They've probably done the math and decided the costs of supporting Linux as an AOL client are more than the revenue they'd take in.
Under U.S. law, anyone who has registered a trademark must be seen to defend their rights to that trademark against infringers, or risk losing the trademakr altogether via a court decision that the trademarked language or art has lapsed into general usage. Years ago, Xerox went after use of the word "xerox" (which they'd trademarked) to refer generically to any copier. Even ran TV commercials telling people not to say "please xerox this".
Marketing a product that combines duplication of a proprietary product's functionality with an infringement of that product's copyright is tantamount to inviting a cease and desist order.
If you don't like this, at least realize that your real target isn't AOL but trademark law.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Correction:
Make the next to last paragraph read "...infringement of that product's trademark is tantamount...." (replacing "copyright" with "trademark".)
Rats:-)
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
GAIM? You mean the program whpse name is the addition to the acronym AIM standing for (AOL Instant Messenger) of the letter G standing for GNOME or GTK toolkit or whatever? A program which depends on a protocol written by AOL and whose logins exchanges are mediated by AOL's servers? Now it happens that AOL has one of the IM networks with enough people to make it a useful communications medium, so it is reasonable to ask that they make it available to others, but.... they're still the ones who made the network happen. There are many important things to debate about whether such networks should open and publicly available, but just because a company built a private one doesn't mean they're a bad guy.
Here's an analogy:
If I built a private road, I would feel free to tell a small trucking project that I didn't want it using my roads, for reasons including maintenance, liability, effect on the people who live by my road, etc. Even a "nice" trucking project. I might build a private road even though I believe roads should generally be public, simply because a public road is a more complicated and slower endeavour.
So take the debate back where it belongs:
I'm all for an intelligent conversation about these terms and conditions.
Not only that, but even if they were a simple bad guy, why would you call them names if you know your side will have to work with them at some point? It's just counterproductive.
You are allowed to revese engineer under the DMCA in order to create interoperable software, I believe.
True, under the letter of the law: 17 USC 1201(f). But good luck proving in court that your "means are necessary to achieve such interoperability".
Will I retire or break 10K?
Right you are. If KDE or Gnome came out with a dialer that installed as easily as AOL's client, that found several local ISP phone numbers automatically, that simplified email, browsing, etc., and offered keyword access to thousands of geek-oriented sites, plus proprietary content thanks to deals with folks like OSDN, etc....well, there'd be some serious salivating and self-congratulating going on.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
If Peng have to hand over the 'Pengaol' domain because it contains the name 'aol' then surely AOL would have to give it back under the same logic.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
It allowed people to decode and convert RealPlayer format so you wouldn't have to see all the annoying ads. Real shut them down.
I don't hack into your company so please don't advertise into my home.
I don't know which is funnier:
/.ers...
"SLASHDOT OWNZ J00"
"I lost my penis"
or
"We buy excess seafood"
Truly noble and mature, fellow
What would Lemmy do?
but really AOL is always going to try to fight reverse-engineering attempts of their proprietary protocols. face it, they suck.
With all the alternative ISPs out there, why would anyone subject themselves to AOL for connectivity? My guess is many families have had their AOL accounts for a while now, and more educated children of those households attempt to cope with the lameness by using this cool dialer.
I'd say there will come a time when people will have to bite the bullet and give up those AOL screennames. They suck at broadband, they're heavily tied into dial-up, they spam the crap out of you, and shove content down your throat all the while confining you to their obnoxious sandbox and screwing-up your network settings. They do everything in their power to abstract the Internet back into AOL. I find that eeevuuuhl.
I for one have been using EarthLink for years on a slew of operating systems, starting from dial-up up to DSL (over 2 1/2 years now), and it's always been a breeze. They'll send you a CD that'll handle the whole sign-up and installation process, or you can just get an account on-line within minutes, and at the end of the web-based process they'll show you a secure page with your username, password, dial-up number, mail and dns settings with which you can manually configure your OS. And BAM you're done. That's $22/month vs $25/month. And if you are craving spoon-fed content, you can always access your account's "start page". Note that each earthlink account actually comes with uhh i think 7 additional accounts or was it 8 additional? forgot. Each account has its own e-mail box, home page address (10MB quota, not bad) (http://home.earthlink.net/~youraccount), and start page. Oh, also the EarthLink DSL account also gives you .. uh .. i think 20 hours of free modem dial-up access, so you can get on-line while travelling through hotels and what-not. They *will* bill your ass if you go over 20 hours though. careful.
Anyway this was just an example of what i find to be a really good nationwide alternative to AOL, but there are other local ISPs all over the place. I'd stay away from local phone companies for DSL service, and go thru a re-seller of their service instead. Phone companies might give you connectivity but they won't give you nearly as many "on-line" perks as other true ISPs will, make sure you comparison-shop. For example verizon assigns you some obnoxious cryptic email address when you get their DSL package. *lame*.
Also keep in mind that any time a local phone company advertises their DSL service to you, i'm pretty sure there has to be at least one other company that offers you similar service, typically with more features for about the same price albeit potentially slightly different service terms. I know EarthLink is pretty-much everywhere, but you have other companies such as speakeasy dsl or something that offer cool plans for gamers.
DSLReports.com is always a good place to look for competitive offerings from various providers in your area.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A recent statement made by President George W. Bush at a press conference regarding the "digital divide" has drawn sharp criticism and a barrage of cease and desist letters from AOL (with attached AOL cds). The statement in question "We will work to get America online and bridge the digital divide" is said to be a violation of AOL (America On Line) intellectual property. Turd Ferguson, AOL's chief IP lawyer, stated "This is a clear attempt by the president to use AOL's good name to further his own cause" and added "As the world's best and fastest growing ISP we will be the one to get everyone online. Any statement to the contrary is just foolish and could give cause for litigation." When questioned about the issue Steve Case stated "Yeah what he said... Anyway all your friends are on it."
The President has refused any major comment on the issue but was quoted by a reliable inside source as mumbling something about "...modifying the draft, we need more lawyers and 40-something chairman to drop on Iraq".
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
In the UK, at least until recently, AOL ran the only unmetered dialup service that did not require a BT telephone line. /. reader but the service was the best.
In addition to that it was a fast, reliable and cost effective service. I hate the dialer as much as the next
I have now moved and have an excellent ADSL connection but for six months AOL was the best solution by far.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
Quote: A federal appeals panel has ruled that the operator of Bargainbeanies.com is not violating the trademark of Beanie Babies creator Ty by offering used dolls through the Web address. The case is significant because it supports the ability of second-hand resellers to market and hawk their wares over the Internet without running afoul of trademark laws.
m h
.reg would do that. This is for the same reasons, primarily to advise people that the mark is legally registered and protected by law. It is indisputable fact that the answer to domain and trademark problems was self-evident and is easier to use than the telephone. Honest lawyers have ratified the solution.
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-961090.html?tag=cd_
Virtually every word is trademarked, be it Alpha to Omega or Aardvark to Zulu, most many times over. MOST share the same words or initials with MANY others in a different business and/or country. For example, the World Trade Organization (WTO) shares its initials with five trademarks - in the U.S. alone (please check). This could be any acronym or initialism - including the famous International Trade Centre (ITC) or International Monetary Fund (IMF).
You can legally use any word, words or initials to start a new business without registering a trademark - providing you are not passing off, of course. Take for example the word 'apple'. It is legally used by thousands of businesses - large and small all over the world. Indeed, it is impossible that they all register themselves as trademarks - they are bound to conflict with many others, being confusingly similar. In my local phone book alone, there are at least five using this word - two garages (seems not connected), a car centre, fruit growers and a decorating firm.
The authorities hide the simple solution to this conflict. From correspondence with them and their response, I believe them corrupt. Why? For a start, trademark holders do not own the vast majority of domains - it is obvious that something is needed to replace the registered trademark symbol - a new TLD of
To see major findings please visit WIPO.org.uk - not associated with UN WIPO.org. Although I use the initials WIPO, it is obvious to even the 'crooks' in UN WIPO that this site not associated with them. Same as is obvious to those at AOL that pengaol.org is not associated with them.