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Ballmer Sees Free Software as Enemy No. 1

geekinexile writes "Bloomberg is running this Microsoft vs. Linux article as a top story on the Bloomberg system. Not so notable for what it says about Linux, but rather for the fact that the financial community is starting to actually get open source."

82 of 587 comments (clear)

  1. Figures... by Speedy8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If someone was willing to volunteer their work to replace the product that I made for a living, I would be scared too.

    1. Re:Figures... by dirvish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He should see see it as enemy #1. It could very likely prove to be the source of Microsoft's demise. We will probably start to see M$ doing more and more to openly oppose the open-source community and its software in the near future. Obviously Steve is feeling threatened.

    2. Re:Figures... by xtremex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've had conversations with my fellow geeks, and we agree that this is exactly like H1B visas doing the same work as us for a fraction of the cost. Does it piss us off? You bet. Should this piss Microsoft off? Hell yeah. Asking Microsoft to become cheaper is like asking me to drop my salary so it's comparable to an immigrant. I have no love for Microsoft, but I can empathize..how can they beat Linux? Make it BETTER than Linux..in all ways. That's how we as professionals beat the immigrants. Become better, so it's WORTH their money. I just have a feeling that Linux will still rise above...just like my faith in this country to leave our borders wide open. Have a nice day

      --
      If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
    3. Re:Figures... by King+of+the+World · · Score: 5, Insightful
      In the last 6 months Microsoft's Balmer has revealed his strategy against OSS and Linux. He's trying to brand them an uninnovative rip-offs. That nothing original comes out of OSS. That if you trust in Microsoft's innovation you'll get a better product.

      (which is not to say that it isn't true, but hell, as far as I'm concerned it applies equally to the roots of Windows too, and it's no bad thing)

      They have also been trying to build up a community around them much more since .NET, but that's a lesser issue.

    4. Re:Figures... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      But for most users of Linux, I believe being 'Open' and 'Free' is the #1 selling point of Linux. Think about it--you can try different distros, different software, etc., and get involved with cool communities. And *nothing costs money.* Microsoft is probably trying to snatch IT managers in such that aren't in it to just have fun and are paying to keep systems running--however they're getting cheap support from college students that come out of this community!

      MS and Windows can't compete with us here--ever. They'd have to do with Windows what Apple did with Mac OS--open source some of it and build it off of UNIX, and keep it UNIX 'enough' to keep people listening. That just wouldn't happen--they're commited to the position that Windows is an architecturally superior OS. And it will bite them where the sun don't shine.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    5. Re:Figures... by shepd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >That's how we as professionals beat the immigrants.

      Or you could do as Canada does and simply integrate them into your society as citizens, rather than immigrants, teach them, and make sure they do as good a job as any other citizen, for the same level of pay.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    6. Re:Figures... by aralin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Oh yeah, thats such a piece of bull. I am on H1b and its like I would EVER get a chance for my job if I would not be BETTER than anyone who they could find locally. If there would be someone able to do my job, he would do it now and I would stay home, thats how it is.

      Same with Microsoft. If they would be able to do their job, there would be no Linux and nobody would cry foul. But because they suck, there is a need for external help. And are they scared now when there is someone better around the corner? Hell yeah! :)

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    7. Re:Figures... by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's alright dude. We'll stop coming to your country and taking jobs as long as your fucking corporations stop trashing our local job markets.
      Heres one way. Stop fucking wasting the Australian agricultural sector by putting in anticompettitive tarrifs on wheat. We don't tarrif you guys (because the US force us not to).

      Oh and while I'm at it. Ya don't suppose them immigrants , like, eat food and stuff. Most research suggests immigration increases employment levels.

      Or do you just hate foreigners?

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    8. Re:Figures... by Jace+of+Fuse! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, there is no reason why Microsoft couldn't eventually do exactly the same thing Apple did, except pride keeps them from doign it.

      WINE proves Unix can have Windows Binary compatibility. Mac OS X proves that Unix can be shoehorned into a usable Desktop environment.

      Microsoft proves they're too stubborn to evolve with the times. Instead, they would rather force the times to evolve around them. If they're smart, they're already working on aways to build a Windows OS on top of FreeBSD, but I'm guessing that's not going to happen anytime soon.

      --

      "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

      Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
    9. Re:Figures... by TC+(WC) · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There are PLENTY of US citizens who are 50x more skilled than many H1B visas. Companies dont want to pay...why pay $100,0000 when you can get "good enough" for $50,000?

      Wow... that's a suprise! A position where you don't need the extra skill getting less money? Should you pay extra for a doctor to take a nursing position when you don't need the extra skill?

    10. Re:Figures... by modecx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While it may be true that MS will be spreading as much FUD as possible about OSS, I don't think that's where they will fight the war.

      If I were MS, I would do everything in my power to make sure that OSS users were isolated as much as possible from the main computing public, in what they do, and how they do it. As you have said, they are trying pretty hard to build up a community around themselves. .NET and maybe to a greater degree DRM with Palladium will be the things that form their community--by forcing those who disapprove to OSS. These are the devices that will enable them to wage war; and in regular MicroSoft fashion, I expect them to weild those weapons without mercy. They are banking on the fact that Joe Sixpack, his grandma and neice, and the rest of the non-professional (and possibly some professional) computer users will stick with their systems because it allows them to do the things they want to do--easier (or legally).

      If DRM legislation comes about, the sides may very well have turned. I, for one, am scared that the American Public will let it happen. Afterall, it's pretty clear that even with the outcry of hundreds of important industry leaders, the government doesn't really care about MicroSoft's anti-competative actions... This one will just be the action to end all competition.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    11. Re:Figures... by drunken+monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      " OK..let me tell you something....since you are not a citizen, you have no right to talk about MY country, just as I don't have a right to talk about yours ."

      Sure he does. The spirit of the First Amendmant. It's a very good idea. And something tells me your righteousness would prevented you from talking about his country.

      I think the comparison between the H1B visa and MS is not a very good one. A lot of the anti-MS sentiments are MS's own fault. It's their intent to dominate and control, not just succeed.

      I don't exactly know how H1bs work, but does the company decide on the salary? Does the H1b have any say or choice? Besides, blame it on the company policy rather than the poor soul.

      Hate is so easy to come by. Vent it at the company that "gave" away the job rather than the guy who "took" it.

      narbey

      --
      -- "The evil stops here" -Petr
    12. Re:Figures... by jjoyce · · Score: 5, Insightful
      And *nothing costs money.

      The important point is not that it costs nothing, it's that as long as it's licensed under the GPL, you are free to make changes to it as you see fit and redistribute those changes. In turn, you give others the same freedoms.

      Stallman certainly has his detractors, but I think we owe him a huge debt for making this valuable point. Money is not the issue at all; freedom is. Too many people think the greatest thing about Linux is that it can be had for only the cost of the CD or download, but that misses the big picture.

      Microsoft always tries to misconstrue the GPL as a license that does not allow them to make any money, but they are perfectly within their rights to license some of their software under the GPL and sell it. What they conveniently fail to mention is that they loathe the idea of releasing their source code, and that is why they hate the GPL. That is my theory.

    13. Re:Figures... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I were FreeBSD, I wouldn't want Microsoft building off of me.

      However, because of the BSD license, there really isn't a damned thing the FreeBSD folks can do to stop Microsoft or anyone else from stealing their code and closing it up.

      Once Microsoft really starts to visibly sink, I wouldn't want to have to be the one to tow the bloat Windows has around with it.

      I don't know that FreeBSD will have to worry about it. If Microsoft does steal BSD code, they will make everyone believe they did it all in-house just like they did with a lot of other things they borged from outside like Internet Explorer (can you say Mosaic), MS-SQL Server (can you say Sybase), etc. Nobody will remember what Microsoft stole from.

      Can a real OS even hold all the bullshit Windows has associated with it?

      Sure, of course it can also jettison it just as easily... Until Microsoft can kill off the last open source/free developer, the whole thing isn't over... Its not like there is a single company that can go bankrupt or get bought out or whatever.

    14. Re:Figures... by shepd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >First of all, many of the immigrants coming here to Canada are rich, filthy stinking rich and they're starting businesses left and right, hiring idiot teenagers at minimum wage to run corner stores, 42-for-1 pizza, and cheap ass apartment buildings.

      That's a very narrow view, IMHO. Can I suggest you walk by a local university and/or a college in Canada?

      I think you'll find a literal explosion of new immigrants taking courses. In fact, in some classes, I've seen _more_ immigrants taking courses than "homegrown" Canadians.

      What the is wrong with running a corner store or pizza shop? You have a problem with students getting easy employment when they want it? You'd rather that mom-n-pop corner store run by Pakistanis be a McDonald's run by rednecks?

      And running cheap ass apartment buildings is bad? I've seen numerous articles in my local newspaper about numerous people virtually starving themselves because their choice is either an $800/month apartment or social assistance. The housing situation at the "bottom end" right now is _really bad_. There is virtually none in the sorts of places where one can actually get a leg up in life.

      >They piss us off because they screw us broke

      So do the beer drinking/pot smoking hippies, which, unfortuantely, describes far too many Canadians (at least to the rest of the world, no thanks to SCTV).

      >and pretend to not understand english/french when we try to reason with them.

      You're watching too much "To Protect and Serve" there... :-) This isn't always the way things go down. Not to mention a person speaking an offcial language can be (and often are) quite beligerant as well.

      >At least around my neighborhood, they're practically all racist penny-snatchers who despise the locals as if we were wild animals.

      I'm sorry that's your experience. My personal experience with immigrants I've known has been (excluding my parents*):

      - One is a manager at a pharmacy
      - One ran a mini mart
      - One is a tool and die worker
      - One is a welder
      - One just finished college to be an EET
      - One runs a tool and die company (not related to the one above)
      - And another owns a nursing home

      And I never felt anything less than welcome in their company. Some offered far more hospitatlity to me than many born Canadians. One was a lawless, greedy person, but at least they tried to keep it hidden. :-)

      * Most all people in Canada today are either 2nd generation or 3rd generation from an immigrant family, or, in fact, immigrated here themselves. Currently 40% of all new Canadians per year are immigrants, the other 60% being births.

      >Being nice sucks in the long run.

      Being nice is what got us the 30 million people that are in Canada today (that, IIRC, is subtracting the only "true" Canadians, the Canadian Aborginals). Many of our most respected inventions, such as the telephone, the gramaphone, the light bulb, and the odometer were invented by immigrant Canadians.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    15. Re:Figures... by Greebz · · Score: 5, Insightful


      One more time...

      YOU ... CAN ... NOT ... STEAL ... BSD ... LICENSED ... CODE ... JUST ... BY ... USING ... IT.

      The only way to steal BSDL'd code is to use it without attibution - which, so far, Microsoft has always done. Unlike Linux, with the infamous RedHat-supplied ATA header code...

      If the license terms are complied with, it's NOT stealing.

    16. Re:Figures... by shepd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >There is nothing wrong with welcoming immigrants, but there is definitely a lot wrong with giving anyone a free ride on the backs of hardworking Canadians, immigrants or not. That isn't promoting equality. Forcing an existing citizen to finance the training of a newcomer so the newcomer can compete for the same job is wrong.

      But that's where the whole system breaks down. Being untolerant of the occasional bad immigrant could mean that you may not be part of Canada. Remember, most all Canadians are born from immigrant families, and that without immigration we'd have a 1920's level population within a couple of decades (I can find the stats if you'd like).

      >We're not the melting pot, we're the mosaic. Remember highschool social studies?

      Yes, I remember what the teacher told me. But it is quite contradictory to the truth. Canada integrates people into its society. Part of the integration is adapting to their culture, and having their culture adapt to ours.

      I think a perfect example of this is my Pakistani friend. Church for him is on Friday. So, he adapts to the fact that Friday is usually a big workday by skipping lunch so he can be at church when it starts. Everyone wins. Our society integrates him by being tolerant, and he integrates with our society by working within our existing system.

      >Or, you could do what Canada also does, provide some immigrants with all the benefits of citizenship and support of Canadian society with little of the responsibility or even the requirement to work for what they get, taking money from existing citizens through high taxes to feed those fleeing far less supportive cultures.

      Again, I'll bring up my Pakistani friend. His family fled his country due to religious persecution (how much less supportive can you get), and now his dad is a tool and die worker, one of the hardest jobs to get filled in factories these days.

      This country was formed on the backs of immigrants and I think if people would just look around rather than read newspaper reports they'd be amazed at just how many more good immigrants there are to bad ones.

      How many immigrants do you personally know? The number should be at about 40%. Out of them, how many would you consider bad immigrants?

      I think the difference between being an immigrant and a born Canada (such as myself) is that a Canadian immigrant chose to be Canadian. I just got it for free.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    17. Re:Figures... by kubrick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >That's how we as professionals beat the immigrants.

      Or you could do as Canada does and simply integrate them into your society as citizens, rather than immigrants, teach them, and make sure they do as good a job as any other citizen, for the same level of pay.


      Or you could do what we do here in Australia, and lock them up in concentration camps in the middle of the desert.

      Yes, I spoiled my vote rather than vote for either party in our two-party system, both of which are in favour of this.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  2. No brainer by el_mex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To a company that sells software for a living, how can free software not be enemy #1?

    1. Re:No brainer by Trusty+Penfold · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Quality is more important than price.

    2. Re:No brainer by mackstann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      depends on who you ask.

      if you ask me, i'll tell you freedom is more important than quality, and price is a part of freedom.

      i'd also tell you that i dont see much quality in MS products anyways ;)

    3. Re:No brainer by Gorobei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To a company that sells software for a living, how can free software not be enemy #1?

      For 15 years, free software was *NOT* Microsoft's enemy. Free software was utilities, shareware games, etc. These either encouraged the use of MS products, or made MS products easier to use. During those 15 years (say 1980 to 1995,) MS's enemies were exclusively rival OSes, rival compilers, rival PC networking solutions, rival wordprocessors, rival spreadsheets, and rival office productivity packages. Later, rival web browsing became important. Every one of these fights came down to keeping the standards-setting within Microsoft: as long as they owned the unpublished standards, they could crush a competitor trying to introduce a better product in any one area.

      Linux only became possible due to the rise of the net: distribution became essentially free (FTP,) advertising became free (the WWW,) and user support became free (Usenet.) Linux gestated in a benign environment... by the time Microsoft noticed it ("free software - that's college kids making SpaceWar games"), it had grown to be a giant shark with fricking laser beams!

      Well, the giant shark is loose now, and they see it as public enemy #1!

    4. Re:No brainer by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what problems did you have?

      Hmmmm ...

      A JDBC driver that will only accept requests for fields in the order that the fields are listed in the database. (According to Microsoft this is a performance enhancement).

      Data import functionality that returns the message "operation succesfully completed" when in fact the import failed.

      Lack of text based export equivalent to pg_dump or mysqldump.

      Error messages like "Authorization Failed or Syntax Error"

      Use of integer for internal time format so that you can't express millisecond times cleanly. A royal PITA if your programmer is saving Java date objects as longs in the database, and you want to report them as a formatted time.

    5. Re:No brainer by MCZapf · · Score: 3, Insightful
      At some point in the future, we will have the canonical set of computing applications...
      At what point in the future? In fifty years? One hundred? You know, the poster you are replying to actually agrees with you. It's just that he specifically mentions that he thinks it won't happen in our lifetimes. I tend to agree.

      For one thing, the world is always changing, and software will have to change with it. To do that, you need programmers - or computers that can program themselves. And to have a computer to program itself, you need some fancy AI. I'm pretty sure it'll be awhile before we have that.

      So, it'll be awhile before you can just talk to your computer a la Star Trek.

      Computer, run an analysis on the warp field fluctuations and whip me up a holographic simulation of a rainforest. Steer the ship around that black hole. And get me a cup of coffee! Thank you.
  3. a fitting quote by CoughDropAddict · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First they ignore you,
    then they laugh at you,
    then they fight you,
    then you win.

    -Mohandas Gandhi

    1. Re:a fitting quote by shepd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >How do you expect to get from them fighting you to you winning?

      Simple -- by fighting someone who refuses to resist you, you admit they are so right the only way you can win is to quash them.

      Everyone will see this as an admittance by Microsoft that Linux is so good even Bill Gates/Steve Ballmer are worried! And if Microsoft thinks its good, hey, it must be better than complete garbage!

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    2. Re:a fitting quote by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "refuses to resist"? Come on, this is slashdot, one of the most Microsoft-hostile communities around.

      Let's see. Anti-Microsoft rants on Slashdot on the one hand; on the other, millions of dollars spent on FUD campaigns, threats and bribes to politicians worldwide, blatant lying from company officials about relative levels of security and reliability (combined with internal memos about how much better The Enemy's software is), prosecuting people who point out mistakes, shutting down anyone who dares to alter a product they paid for, etc, etc, etc. Yes, those OSS developers are certainly in the same league as Bill.

      Bear in mind that about the only action taken by the OSS crowd 'against' a giant like Microsoft, and about the only action a bazaar could take, is to steadily improve their product and public awareness of same. Compare that to MS, whose lawyers cry foul every time someone points out a flaw in one of their products. The GPL reads like the Golden Rule. Microsoft EULA's are a few steps away from demanding your firstborn child.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
  4. It might be easier? by kbielefe · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "People are saying by and large, `It might be easier for me to move my Unix apps to Linux than to Windows,' although we're pretty close to making that untrue."
    How much easier does it get than a recompile? OK, I admit that Linux isn't 100% compatible with all flavors of Unix, but it has got to be easier in any case than porting an application to windows.
    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
  5. Balmer says ... by BoomerSooner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have told our sales force to really understand that this is kind of job one, Ballmer, 46, said in an interview last week. People are saying by and large, It might be easier for me to move my Unix apps to Linux than to Windows, although we're pretty close to making that untrue.

    Lol, what apps are easier from Unix to Windows? Viruses? that is about it.

    I've switched all my companies servers to Linux and Solaris. I am slowly bringing linux on board at my full time job. When the shoe fits, wear it. Unfortunately for MS their shoe is a size too small.

    1. Re:Balmer says ... by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > linux costing more to maintain. bwahaha. in *what* environments???

      In environments where noone knows linux, nor wants to be bothered to learn it.

      You have your hobbiests/PC geeks on the low end. On the high end you have large companies with IT departments who can afford to pay good linux admins.

      In the middle there are countless small to midsized businesses too small to justify a salary to maintain some computers, too big to do without them. This is Windows' stomping ground.

      These are the places where Jimmy the shipping guy can double as the computer guy, because he's familiar enough with PCs to solve most problems. Tech support is there for the rest.

      Thats the other 95% of the market linux cant touch yet. Thats where the focus needs to be if you want to really hurt microsoft.

      IBM sees this, Red Hat sees this, even Microsoft sees this. It's just yer average local /. geek who cant take the blinders off long enough to see the real world.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  6. "Windows servers cheaper"?? by sacrilicious · · Score: 3, Insightful
    While Windows-based server computers are growing increasingly powerful and can cost 40 percent less than Unix systems, open- source programs have improved enough to replace Unix systems, investors said.

    I totally don't get this statement. Can somebody please tell me how [hardware X + non-free-OS] can be cheaper than [hardware X + free-OS]?

    .

    --
    - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  7. what a shock. by EvilStein · · Score: 3, Insightful

    world + dog are surprised.

    unless, of course, Microsoft really means it this time and they were just warning us linux users the last few times they said this.

    Although.." Microsoft marketers must rely on studies that show the cost of maintaining a Windows system is lower than that of Linux machines. Research has yet to show that people are replacing Microsoft products with free programs, analysts said. "

    So we're going to be seeing MORE "studies" showing that Windows is cheaper to maintain? I'm sure they will be able to skew that towards Windows, but it's pretty hard to skew the fact that it costs quite a bit more to initially set up a Windows-based server infrastructure than a Linux-based one.
    As far as the other bit? The major software that people would be replacing is Microsoft Office. I wonder how many are replacing it with something *cheaper* - like Corel's office suite. Gateway is already doing that...

  8. Of course... by neksys · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course the financial community is starting to "get" open source software. It makes perfect sense that a group of people who are experts in money would opt for a system that is just as good, at a fraction of the cost. These people know money - and financially, it just makes sense for them to go open source for at least some of their applications.

  9. Outinnovate the Open Source Community by cranos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I like the last line in the article stating that Microsofts only option is going to be to out innovate the Open Source Commmunity.

    I give them three weeks if they go down that path as opposed to the jack boot, "You vill use our Softvare" approach.

  10. Re:financial community by DrMaurer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having worked in the financial industry, I'm willing to agree.

    They're afraid of software without a final source. Yes, there are the free software developers, but they understand that linux is made by hackers.

    Red Hat et al. is actually making inroads in this, because they can be a "final source".

    But until the huge amount of software that an average bank uses that is seen as important for their job is available on another platform, then linux will be on the sidelines.

    --
    Dan
  11. vertical market software... by ecalkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    big picture time: this isn't about the 'financial community' getting open source religion. there are soooo many markets out there that have a) OLD dos based software and/or b) poorly written windows software.

    i've done support with companies in insurance, medicine, financial, libraries, etc. mostly small, but some of them were not. they all have *Wretched* software. i'm still supporting dos programs for insurance agencies and doctors offices. there are markets out there that are just now starting to write windows software!

    this is a window (pardon the pun) of opportunity to take some desktops away from microsoft.

    between the licensing issues and expense of microsoft tools *and* the growing expense of the end-user environment *and* a poor track record of security, this should be an opportunity to show what open source can do. and be.

    eric

  12. wise statement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ok,
    So pretty much all us Slashdot readers know free software would be enemy #1 to Ballmer. The thing is, I can't help but think that he is adding more proverbial wood to the very same fire that is burning him at the stake.

    IMHO, this statement would make many purchase decision makers wake up from their MSOFT induced coma and start to entertain the notion that maybe the geeks are right ... maybe we actually should consider some alternatives to Microsoft!

    I don't know for sure, but I tend to think that this is quite a SLIP up for Microsoft. It will do great damage in eroding their best and biggest customer base - the religious Microsoft fanatics that (up till now) refused to consider any other options.

    _____________
    Belly

  13. out-innovating linux by oh · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article.

    ``I don't know what you do to protect your shareholders and preserve your market capitalization except to out-innovate the Linux community.''


    If Microsoft can do that, more profit to them. If they can provide the products people want and can afford, then they have nothing to worry about.

    The problem is that they are a monolithic company. They have an official policy, some one decides to run a project, and throws programmers at it. They can make large scale (if not reliable) software quickly because they can afford to pay hundreds of programmers.

    What they can't emulate is the ideas that come from a grass-roots community. If any one person has an idea, they can start to work on it. They have a huge body of software to research and re-use code from, and if they can demonstrate something that other people find useful, they can quickly gather programmers to the project.

    Because it starts small, it may take longer to finish. But because it starts small, hundreds of ideas can be quickly tested, with the best being developed and improved by the community.

    Haw can one company out-innovate that?
    --
    Democracy isn't about no one telling you what to do. It's about everyone telling you what to do.
  14. Emperically logical by Ghoser777 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No it's not. The jump in logic may not be obvious, but it is valid. This is essentially the way that India's independence from Britain came about, by passive resistance. When the British people saw all the horrible things that were being done to non-violent Indians, support for continued colonizations quickly dwindled. So, after the British fought, the Indians won.

    It works here to - as soon as Microsoft starts fighting Linux, guess what gets free advertising? Even more, anyone in the business community can smell blood when they see one company getting so worked up over a competitor. If Linux wasn't the real deal, Microsoft wouldn't have to worry about it. So essentially, Microsoft fights Linux, Linux wins (in the sense that it gains larger name recognition, and hopefully, larger deployment).

    Matt

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
  15. Then he's failed already... by shepd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most idiot CEOs already think free software is uninnovative and crappy.

    Trying to bolster a platform that's already in place is a waste of time, and that can only serve to further the amount of free software in business, considering at this point its on a steady increase in use.

    --
    If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    1. Re:Then he's failed already... by Greebz · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Most open source software is indeed completely lacking in innovation.

      However, you appear to think that CEOs actually think about software...

    2. Re:Then he's failed already... by di0s · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most open source software is indeed completely lacking in innovation.

      Yea, but "innovation" in Windows is simply switching around a few menu items here and there, integrating freeware, and selling it for a premium. How is that innovative? I think Ballmer throws that word around way too much. Microsoft hasn't done anything truely "innovative" in a long time. Ballmer has some nerve calling OSS "cloned" software when Windows has cloned features from many other OS's.

    3. Re:Then he's failed already... by ichimunki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most open source software is indeed completely lacking in innovation.

      There is absolutely no correlation between the proprietary-ness or Free-ness of a piece of software and the amount of "innovation" it provides. Lack of originality is not the sole domain of Free Software, much of which is very original. But to be more accurate, the ideas in most software aren't all that novel to begin with-- they are either adaptations of real world processes or workalikes for existing software. What I find interesting is that the more the ideas are shared, along with the code, the more rapid the progress seems to be in moving the project from a kernel of an idea to a mature application.

      I think your real complaint would be that most Free Software isn't very mature yet. And this is true. With the exception of a very few projects (like emacs) the Free Software world is full of stuff that is less than 10 years old. Projects like MS Word have been around for closer to 20 years... this is a significant headstart. Once a program like AbiWord is up to speed on the basic functions of a word processor, then I'd fully expect it to take off at full speed with some stuff you'd find very original. But first they'll have to have a grammar checker and an outline tool. Otherwise everyone will complain that AbiWord may have some great new feature but it can't do half of what Word does. It's a bit of a Catch-22. New features or catch-up features. Listen to complaints about missing functions or listen to complaints about being unoriginal.

      --
      I do not have a signature
  16. Re:This is almost TOO easy ... by ender81b · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I agree with your post the same could be said of linux, linux very rarely 'innovates' (i'm talking about general Unix software now) other than you know that the software will likely be secure and stable. I mean, really, what was the last 'innovation' that occured in the *nix /world? Wow, we finally got journalling databases, and we are finally starting to get user-friendly UI enviroments. Whopee. Not the most technical of people so maybe the linux kernel does do some wonderfully modern stuff but to me it doesn't look like much.

    Of all the modern OS's I feel the *nix world copies the most and does the least innovation. Think of all that could be done with kde/gnome - but instead they became win98 clones until just recently. Not that *nix software is bad it just being a wee bit hypocritical.

    BTW, you missed .Net which is basically a suped-up version of Java to replace MS's previous failed java-usurper ActiveX. =).

  17. Re:Writing lessons by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have to realize that Bloomberg's specialty is not quality journalism, the WSJ beats them hands down, and they probably all know that. What make Mike a billionare, is that his service provides quantity journalism. That story was probably one of 500 published on Microsoft today. Not all of them were written by Bloomberg's staff, but quite a few were, and they do this for almost every company out there. This isn't an information service for acidemics, it provides near instantanous information for large investors who might just trade a million or more shares on the info provided.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  18. I used OSS on Wall St 10 years ago. by MrChuck · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I was in a very small group that did core infrastructure at a large wall st bank. We introduced new things like "BIND" and "ntp" and the like. We created a "fire-wall" and brought in Internet connectivity for email and the like. We found this cool gopher replacement that ran on the NeXTs calls "www" - a CLI hyper browser thing.

    Some of the business people did yell - "do you really see non-technical people using this 'Internet'?" and when we slid Mosaic to a few people "Do you really see business people using this 'World Web' thing?" . Yes, yes I do. "That just shows what you don't know about business." I'll get back to you on that one, ok?

    Everyone had Unix desktops (well, most). Sendmail for 6,000 machines run mostly by, er, me, with end admins actually tossing in the binaries and one of 4 config files that ran the whole thing. SMTP got mail from London to Toyko, desktop to desktop, in under 2 seconds.

    Did we live on Open Source? Well, the infrastructure did.

    Trouble ticket systems took 2 years to be selected and rolled out.
    Our group compiled "req" in a day and used that while we waited for Remedy.

    Monitoring systems were selected for THOUSANDS per machine.
    We put up CMU SNMP (would now use Net-SNMP) and got better results, despite management ("see, now, snmp is for Network devices" /me looks at ethernet on the NeXT and Sparc 2 "no, hubs and routers, that sort of thing - just pony up the money for each box and we'll monitor it").

    Most importantly most trading system software is not store bought. Sure, on windows, they use some rapid development stuff. folks I know use a lot of Java, but it's a LOT of custom software.

    The Unix problem was that X and Motif were so miserable to develop for. It was like punishment for choosing Unix. My hat is off to the KDE and GNOME folks for picking up the ball that the X Consortium dropped. Mandate application look and feel. You must quit apps through FILE -> Quit. That beats the random ways that you quite in Wordperfect or XV or Lotus or XTerm or whatever.

    The financial world will go to where better app development and better support are. That's been MS for a while, I hate to say. GNOME & KDE may save Unix.

  19. I can tell you this... by tkrotchko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I just installed Lindows 2. Using it right now in fact.

    It isn't perfect, but its interface its pretty damned good.

    The killer "app" that's holding companies to windows is MS Exchange, specifically the calendering piece and its integration with email.

    But when the open source movement gets a really good, robust Exchange replacement, Microsoft essentially becomes redundant.

    This new Linux stuff is powerful. When I look at it I understand why Microsoft is nervous.

    I think the Lindows people are really onto something here.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  20. Irony by BrynM · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think it's funny that the very thing that Microsoft used to nail the coffin on Netscape (as an independant profitable company) might put it down - giving away the product.

    Fortunately for us who contribute software or programming to the world, we don't have to show a bottom line to a board that tells us what to do.

    --
    US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
  21. You're talking about Minix by Wee · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Same with Microsoft. If they would be able to do their job, there would be no Linux and nobody would cry foul.

    Ummm, I hate to shatter your world-view or anything, but Linux was created because Minix was not able to do the job (or, more accurately, Linus was not able to do any job with Minix, but it's the same difference). The creation of Linux had nothing (or "very, very little") to do with the existence of Windows. Put another way, the two would still have been created in absence of the other; their creations were orthogonal to one another.

    Call me crazy, but I just don't know why Linux and Windows always have to compete for the same space. Sure, there's a little overlap, but generally the two (inter)operate separately and nicely. Right tool for the job... choice is good, eh?

    -B

    --

    Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

    1. Re:You're talking about Minix by JM_the_Great · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, Linux was originally created because Minix wasn't good enough. But in the last 5 years or so, much of it's popularity and publicity has come from Windows not being able to do it's job. Linux would still be relegated to a few college students and would be YAUC (Yet Another UNIX Clone) were it not for the suckiness of Windows.

      I remember an article in US News in '97 or '98 talking about how Red Hat was going to overthrow MicroSoft... this of course didn't happen (yet), but the point is Linux got to be where it is today not because it was better than Minix, but because it is better than Windows (or is at least a competitor).

      --

      --Justin Mitchell
      "2nd Place is a fancy word for losing" --Bender (Futurama)
  22. Re:This is almost TOO easy ... by ethereal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that coming up with innovative ideas is a lot more expensive than cloning existing ideas. Whatever Microsoft does innovate is going to cost them more than it will for free software to essentially duplicate it, because the benefit of the innovation (being the only person on the market with it) gets chipped away relatively quickly. Even assuming that Microsoft is innately more innovative than the free software world, out-innovating free software is going to be a lot more expensive than, say, out-innovating Netscape or Sun or Oracle. It may or may not be worth it in the long run to try to press a full-scale assault on free software that way - it's kind of like trying to fight back the tide. Eventually the tide will catch up to where you are; you can either head for higher ground or start swimming with the aquatic sea-birds.

    --

    Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

  23. Re:Slashdot, you crack me up by boomka · · Score: 2, Insightful
    imagine that...

    M$ is paying Slashdot money so that we can continue to bash M$ here on Slashdot

    --
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.
    H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
  24. Balmer's stake- 235,484,037 shares by sssmashy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's easy to see why Ballmer feels a little threatened... he owns almost a quarter billion shares of MSFT, worth $11.7 billion. Next to that, his $700,000 CEO salary looks like chump change.

    He dumped 4 million shares in the past 2 years, but at that rate it would take several lifetimes to sell off his entire stake. His only chance of staying in the 11-digit club (as opposed to 10 digits or even 9) is to hope like hell that MSFT can maintain its current market share in the face of neverending pressure from competitor's innovation and open source. Steve's position is that of a fat guy on a treadmill, running to keep in place as it steadily speeds up...

  25. Cheaper == better, in management eyes by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked with plenty of H1Bs, and some are good, some are bad. But that doesn't matter. Most management sees employees as replaceable parts, no difference from one to the next. They literally don't know how to measure the worth of an employee other than useless buzzwords or seniority. Thus when they see an H1B with the right buzzwords but at half the cost of a citizen, they salivate at saving money. The predictable result is that more H1Bs are hired, and since no attempt has been made to hire only the good ones, a lot of crap H1Bs are hired.

    Thus the resentment by actual citizens trying to get the same job. Whether you fit the crap lable or not has nothing to do with complaints about H1Bs. You are tarnished by the management incompetency brush.

    1. Re:Cheaper == better, in management eyes by YourGarbageMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. The biggest problem I've come across in the corporate tech market is a lack of good leadership. They don't know how to form a team, let alone a good team. They don't know how to lead, or what good leadership is. They don't recognize the value in employee retention. They say they do, but its usually just rhetoric. This is not true everywhere, but IMO it is the standard modus operandi. The truth is reflected by the attrocious rates of attrition and turn over. Look at the average length of time a tech worker stays with a given company.

      This was never more clear to me than when I was lucky enough to find myself under a good leader on an outstanding team. Only to watch as upper management stomped it all to pieces. Even when they have the good thing, they can't see it.

      The reason employee retention is important in the tech market was obvious to me once I thought about it. My company thinks this business is about technology, but its not; its about the people who make the technology. I know that sounds corny but listen up. Technology has a very limited shelf life. What is gold today is rust tomorrow. An outstanding product today is obsolete in a couple of years. But a team of outstanding people can continually invent new and outstanding technology. Those people will constantly reinvigorate the product line, and keep the business healthy and vibrant. So, here's my advice. If you have a successful product, then make sure you retain the people who created that product, because they - not the product - are your most valuable asset.

  26. The enemy within... by lanalyst · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the past several years, M$ has attempted to alienate their user base in every way possible. From their increasingly restrictive licensing which assumes every customer is a crook to the outright slop they promote as 'software', users - especially corporate - are looking for alternatives.

    Of course, for the press they paint the picture that users are misguided (read: ignorant) and are turning to open source. Further alienation.

    The M$ business model requires selling upgrades early and often. From here, it doesn't look like they're actually producing anything 'ya gotta have' but people are buying it 'because they have to'.

    .NET? Why? My impression is most seasoned IT folk see it as a marketing gimmick. Re-invent. New release. Have to upgrade because the previous release doesn't do whatever. More stable. Repeat repeat repeat.

    Sooner or later, this becomes obvious to anyone that has to shell out real money to play this game.

    The funny part is they could have probably pulled it off but now it's a trust and credibility issue. Thanks, Judge Jackson.

  27. Psst. You do realize, some people like windows... by BrookHarty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Win2k/XP is a rather nice Desktop OS. Its come a long way, finally stable, good features, and lots of applications and games. (Ya viruses too)

    Truely, I dont think linux has a chance on the desktop. Hardware support isn't there, Application are not isn't there (Loki is gone). I know everyone is working thier ass off to make it, but until the average joe will want to drop Windows boxes for a Linux box, linux will be mostly a server os. (I'm not counting the slashdot crowd, most of us dual boot, and/or have a dedicated linux/bsd server.)

    Servers are another questions, Unix is the only way I run my shops. After running DNS/SMTP/HTTP on unix and windows, I can tell from experience, a unix type os is the only choice. (We run Solaris) But hey m$ wins again, seems 1/3rd of all unix admin programs run only on windows or if they use a web gui, only IE is supported. (sigh/disgust)
    -
    Do you GLTron ?

  28. I guess turnabout is fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    MS killed Netscape by giving away IE. I guess they get whatever comes to them!

  29. Of course it's enemy #1. by mindstrm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And it's an enemy you can't just take to court or buy. He's fighting against an ideology, not a company.

  30. This does not compute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "As part of Ballmer's plan to woo open-source users, Microsoft is sponsoring Web sites to provide advice to developers and let them pool resources. He's seeking to emulate the way hundreds and sometimes thousands of developers collaborate on open-source programs. "

    News flash, Mr Ballmer:

    You can't emulate Open Source development with a closed source OS. Nobody is going to contribute to your code base if they know that MS retains all the rights to your "shared" source code.

    You can go ahead and mod me down for being troll, but, are MS Execs really this clueless?

    Error Reading Steve Ballmer. Abort, Retry, or Fail?

  31. What Ballmer and the others don't get... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's one aspect of Open Source that Ballmer and his friends don't get yet. He talks about trying to adopt the open-source ideas to benefit Microsoft. That dooms him to failure right there. People don't contribute to open-source software to benefit someone else. They contribute to benefit themselves. They fix bugs and add features because they need that done. And the contribute it back because they've already benefited from previous contributions from other people. It's all aimed at the benefit of the customer/user. When anyone, whether they be Microsoft or Sun or whoever, sets up a similar system aimed to benefit someone other than the people actually doing the work, those people don't buy in and the whole thing kind of shambles off into oblivion.

    If Ballmer wants to adopt open-source ideas, the first one is going to have to be "How can our users add to and change Windows to benefit themselves?". As long as "How can users add to Windows to benefit Microsoft?" takes priority, it'll fail.

  32. Innvation isn't just about features by driehuis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's inform him on some of the "innovating" that Microsoft has done in the past ... shall we?

    I'm not someone to stand up for Microsoft, but this comparison _really_ is too easy.

    What Unix users tend to forget is that Microsoft actually did some things right in Windows that Unix (or rather, the X Windows toolkits) to this date doesn't do right consistently. Take cut&paste. It's a basic feature, but the sheer scope of deviation among toolkits is just revolting. Tabbing between fields, same story.

    As a matter of fact, the thing that I hold against Microsoft is precisely _not_ borrowing successful concepts from other companies. My favorite: Apple for years had a highly successful magazine for Apple Developers, called (wait for it!)... "develop". If a developer asked "develop" a question illustrated by an example, it would be answered with regards to the technology, but equally important, UI goofs would be pointed out.

    If you look at MSDN, you will invariably see UI questions answered with "sure, you can do that, here's the code". No matter how counterintuitive or outright stupid the proposed UI is.

    Microsoft sucks at trying to sway developers to pay attention to the looks of the UI (and, matter of fact, the WIN32 API doesn't make it particularly easy to do screen layout right), but much of the groundwork for UI behavior is done right, and screwing it up takes a conscious effort. A shocking innovation? I don't think so. Done better than the average Unix tool? You betcha.

    Of course, Apple has much to answer for after they set the Dung Standard for user interfaces with their glitzy but totally unusable quicktime player.

    --

    Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.

  33. free software and Palladium by 1+(smarterThanYou) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmm...if free software is the enemy...wouldn't it make sense to counter free software by creating an Operating System that will only run programs that you deem acceptable to run, and then make it so that no free programs are "trusted", virtually eliminating free software as competition for the operating system within your control? Oh wait...they are already doing that with Palladium. I guess Free Software is the enemy for MS right now, with 2000 and XP...but we all know that if you right buggy code and then don't fix it before a future OS release, and then end maintenance on the old, people will have to upgrade in order to protect themselves. (I will comment on this in a second) So in essence the "plague" of free software will disappear within a year of the release of Palladium. What MS does with its purposeful bug-filled OS releases is just plain terrible. Create something purposely that has security flaws, then never fully update it so that those flaws are never completely fixed, and then end maintenance once a newer OS is released is just sick. The last time I checked, praying on people's emotions, like sense of lack of security, in order to "force" them to purchase something newer (which is I guess "not flawed") was called a SCAM. I'm also fairly certain that SCAMMING is ILLEGAL and that SCAM ARTISTS go to jail when caught. I guess money does buy freedom.

  34. Balmer is a fool. MS efforts will go nowhere. by Lethyos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Know why? Because open source never has been, isn't, and never will be in competition with Microsoft. Ask Linus - he doesn't give a rats ass what Redmond or the world thinks about Linux. He just wants to make a good product, which is the crux of the issue.

    Open source is not a business. It's not an establishment. It's only a set of ideals that are suited to fulfilling a set of needs. For example, people who use open source software have a need for inexpensive, dependable, stable, secure operating systems. As a result, several such operating systems have been produced from open source development efforts. Microsoft does not, cannot, and will never fulfill those needs. Therefore, open source software and ideals will always thrive, just as they have for several decades now. (This nonsense about making software proprietary is still a relatively new one in the computer industry... and it's showing that it will soon fail).

    We're not in competition with Microsoft. We can just sit back, laugh, write good code, and use the execellent software we've created to complete our tasks and solve our problems. Meanwhile, they'll run around like mad, trying to compete with an entity that cannot be competed with, spending billions in the process while we go by without burning a single cent! Sure, some people use open source software to compete with Microsoft (RedHat, IBM, et al). But in the end, we are not a business and the fools at Microsoft don't know how to deal with it. Soon, they'll go the way of the dodo and that will be that.

    Microsoft will fail because they cannot identify needs and fulfill them. All this time, they'll be busy spinning marketing campaigns, filling magazines with FUD... when they could have been developing quality, open code. I suppose the customer is their last priority. This is a business doomed to fail.

    --
    Why bother.
  35. M$ wants to compete...LOL by dh003i · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The idea of M$ actually wanting to compete on a level playing field is laughable.

    They don't want to compete with Free Software. They want to illegalize Free Software, and force any would be Free Software developers to release their code into the public domain or under a BSD-like license: so that M$ can take all of their ideas, embrace them, extend them in their own products, and then give nothing back to the community.

    Basically, if it were up to M$, what's your's would be their's and what's their's would be their's too.

    Btw, for those of you blabbing about the Free Software community not doing any innovating, that's bull. Let's just take WM's for the moment.

    PWM -- any proprietary window manager out there that can adequately handle tabbed windowing, a vastly superior system?

    WindowMaker -- better than Win9x's UI or that of OSX, though WindowMaker and OSX share the same heritage, NeXT. Sure, WindowMaker was based off of the OpenStep standard, but it was an *open* standard. Can't blame the Free Software community for keeping something alive in a viable form when its own company had abandoned it.

    Those of you saying that KDE and GNOME are exactly like Windows are wrong; its similar to Windows to make transition easier for Windows users. However, KDE and GNOME each have their own unique features which distinguish them from Windows.

    Xfce is an excellent Free Software implementation of CDE; original? no, but excellent, yes.

    Alot of you people saying that Linux WM's and Desktop Environments are just Windows clones need to actually use these things instead of just looking at the screenshots from themes.org. They offer many useful features which aren't found in Windows or Mac. There are also areas where Windows and Mac are better. Mac gets points for their universal file menu (any hope of them allowing us to make it hide-away?). Windows gets points for allowing you to make your desktop background a web-page, and for allowing you to add "docks" to the sides of it with your choice of applications/folders on them. WM's in Linux like WindowMaker get points for their elegant look and feel, simplicity (dock); PWM gets points for its excellent tabbed-windowing feature; Xfce gets points for being a nice desktop environment.

    Check out my website for some of my suggestions on what would make an ideal WM.

  36. Just not so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We have one running on Sun desktop. Tracks and computes alerts for all NYSE, AMEX, and NASDAQ trades just fine, peaks around 40% CPU.

    None of the Wall Street trading systems have PDP-11's anywhere within. You might think the markets themselves could handle their own biggest days, no?

    That said, a number of companies still do, or recently did, use PDP-11 machines. I know one that retired a bunch in just the last few years.

  37. Re:China is enemy #1 by dirvish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    China is a threat...through OSS.

  38. Re:Slashdot, you crack me up by Shelled · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Almost any other commercial venture would have buckled under pressure - internal or external - to remove material obviously offensive to such a major client. Of the legion of things Slashdot does wrong (a moderation system open to astroturfing, poor editing, repetitious stories ending in trite tag lines, etc.) this is one thing they do impressively right.

  39. Re:This is almost TOO easy ... by Malcontent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I mean, really, what was the last 'innovation' that occured in the *nix /world?"

    zope, postgresql, jabber, rsync, http, email, ftp, tcp/ip, DNS, distributed file systems etc. are all innovations that occured in the *nix world. I just stopped there but there are tons more. Just about every single piece of technology that you use every day come out of the unix world.

    --

    War is necrophilia.

  40. Workstation vs Server licensing by bertok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft will never win against Linux unless they drastically change their licensing model. Currently, a copy of Windows 2000 Professional costs AUD 685.00 here in Australia. Compare this to their server products: Windows 2000 Server costs AUD 2184.00 and Advanced Server costs a stunning AUD 7900.00. The difference in cost between the workstation and server products is an order of magnitude, but the install CDs are virtually identical except for a few marker files. They even share service packs. It's not like the Server editions have email or database functionality thrown in for free, they just costs more and have different logos.

    Believe it or not, most PHBs actually believe they are getting more when they are buying Windows 2000 Server, and that's how Microsoft likes it. To be fair, it's not just Microsoft doing this kind of thing: Have any of you noticed how SMP servers always cost at least a thousand dollars more than single CPU servers or workstations? Are one extra CPU socket and a slightly different North Bridge chip a thousand dollars worth of extra hardware? I think not. Dual CPU machines are largely sold as servers, and most large OEMs have worked out that they can charge more money for server hardware, even if it is almost exactly the same as their workstation products.

    Linux, and open source in general, challenges such marketing hype. There is no workstation Linux or server Linux. Any home user or small business can set up a mail or database server without having to fork over five or six digits sums for software that isn't really all that special.

  41. Where Open Source Falls Short by micron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Small to medium business is the largest target market out there. A small business can invest $5,000 in a Microsoft software/ Intel hardware solution, and $5,000 in consulting, and get a solution that will work. The consulting market price is low due to competition. The system will run, and there are many people that can provide this service.

    Linux.. I can get the Intel hardware cheap, and the OS out of a book, or free. Not for the novice. I have to find someone who really knows what they are doing to get the apps set up and running. This takes time, and the cost can go through the roof.

    Don't confuse inexpensive aquisition costs with inexpensive solutions. Until the mom and pop shops of the world can get accounting systems and small business software up and running inexpensively and easily, Microsoft will be around and making money.

  42. WINE by AmVidia+HQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    is a good example why Ballmer should fear OSS. With M$'s push for .NET, the "OS for the internet", it still faces competition from J2EE and perhaps Mono. Windows is still the thing M$ uses to whip the software world to submission. Software incompatibility (between Windows and Linux) is, I believe, the only stumbling block that keeps corporations from adopting Linux. With technical difficulties aside, IF Wine manage to implement more than 80% of the Win32 API then bibi Windoze. Go Wine! embrace, extend and extinguish!

    --
    VIVA1023.com | Political Fashion.
  43. Bloomberg gets tech in general by grawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bloomberg is a company that lives and breathes tech. They have a huge investment in technology, and tend to stay ahead of the curve. It isn't surprising at all that they get linux.

  44. larger enemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    ``He's got it tough,'' said Walter Price, who helps manage $35 billion at Dresdner RCM Global Investors and holds Microsoft shares. ``I don't know what you do to protect your shareholders and preserve your market capitalization except to out- innovate the Linux community.''

    the quote from this guy as well as the wells fargo and mcadams wright ragen reps point to the biggest threat to open source: the money it can take from funds that include m$ and other entities.

    these deep-pocket funds are going to get pretty twitchy when the value of their holdings becomes threatend by a movement that cannot be bought, sold, or owned.

    no matter the quality, if the money people can't get richer from it (or worse still, it costs them) *that* could prompt a bigger threat as bill and his minions could be

  45. M$ should cash in... by silverhalide · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While the effort to isolate the Linux community may be a nobel one in terms of Microsoft's squash 'em mentality, it would be smarter for M$ to try to capitalize on the linux rage by releasing their own distribution and charging for support. People seem to forget, while the actual software is free, implementing it into a specific environment/system is not! There is plenty of money to be made with Linux, just not directly selling it. While I can see there would be plenty of resistance to anything put out by M$, it would be the smartest move on their part -- might improve their image, and have the potential for gaining market share in the Linux sector (While linux is great and all, it's just not quite a viable alternative as a desktop OS for the general public yet. I believe it to be a strict contender in the server market).

  46. Microsoft just dont get the point. by miffo.swe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They cant get into their heads that many of the people looking at linux doesnt do it because of linux superiority. Microsoft has done a great job of alienating their own customers with high prices and shoddy quality. Not to mention how they have made a clear mark that anyone working together with them get a stab in the back.

    If they had cared anything about their customers they wouldnt be in this situation.

    All their talk about "fighting linux" is just BS. How big part of the market has linux? I think there are enough space to cater both but MS seems to think that ANY competition is dangerous.

    Why do they have such little faith in their own ability to compete on fair grounds? It feels liek they are grasping for straws. Maybe times arent so easy when there arent many companies to steal ideas from any longer. Any smart person with a wild new idea for a killer app just think Netscape and then puts it in a drawer until MS gets under control.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  47. Re:This is almost TOO easy ... by spitzak · · Score: 3, Insightful
    That is true. Almost all real innovation in Graphical User Interface is being done on Unix and Unix-like systems. Unfortunatly none of it sees the light of day because it is "not user friendly", ie it does not look like Windows.

    Just see what happens if somebody here proposes a different design for a window manager. They are yelled at mercilessly for being "user unfriendly". Unfortunatly everything that does not look identical to Windows is attacked this way.

  48. Re:Serious Question for Open Source developers... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We'll do what we've traditionally done: get paid to write software. I'd say about 80% of software is by it's nature not amenable to being widely distributed. For example, a point-of-sale system tied tightly into the pump-control, tank-monitoring and other hardware of a truckstop. Half a million or so lines of code, all told, and all of it so specific to one company's way of doing business that there's only a handful of other people who could use it without major modifications and customization. For all that, though, it's so critical to keeping the company running that abandoning it in favor of more generic solutions would be corporate suicide. It would simply cost too much in lost opportunities to have to wait 5 years for someone else to implement an idea, not to mention the costs of customizing it to match the way the company works (or alternatively changing the way the company works, but that's letting the tail wag the dog).

    In that kind of situation, open-source is infrastructure. It's the generic code that handles the routine jobs and the well-known tasks so the programmers can concentrate on the critical parts that aren't generic.

  49. They will not get the free software people back by Bas_Wijnen · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ``He's got it tough,'' said Walter Price, who helps manage $35 billion at Dresdner RCM Global Investors and holds Microsoft shares. ``I don't know what you do to protect your shareholders and preserve your market capitalization except to out-innovate the Linux community.''

    Even if they would out-innovate GNU/Linux (which I find hard to imagine), the free software community will still not switch, since they care more about freedom than about having the technically best product.

  50. The biggest enemy of Microsoft is Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets have a look at the facts besides Steves paranoia fud. Linux not really is the enemy, Microsoft or at least the twist the company did since Steve took over is it. Companies never really considered to switch to Unix until Microsoft almost blackmailed them with their new subscription program. I think the critical point will be around 2004 when the public support for win2k runs out. Most companies never really considered an alternative, many of them were happy to go the windows route (well the suites were, buy Microsoft dont have any issues in the management), but things have changed with the new licensing scheme. There is an alternative, a good community also is there, you can buy support if needed and it works and doesnt have all the licensing issues connected to Windows.

    The next stupidity out of Redmont now comes with Palladium and TCPA, do you really want to trust a mission critical system to an operating system where somebody might nail unasked an update onto. Do you really want to develop for a system where you in the long term might have to pay an annual tax to keep a signing key alive and do you really want to have somebody else decide if your program is allowed to run anymore or not... This is simply personal computing without personal computing. I think Microsoft and all the others will fall flat on their faces in the long term with this. And at that time, non TCPA implementing systems will be good enough so that you can push them onto the average joe.

  51. Re:The Chinese government is enemy #1 by budalite · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but the people of every nation are very responsible for their own government. It's their responsibility and they get exactly what they put into the government process. Which, apparently, in the case of most places, like China, Irag, Iran, etc., is damn near nothing. It's GIGO and NINO. (Nothing in, nothing out). :{(||

  52. Re:Figures...?? well not really... by modecx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, I understand that point all too clearly. If the media, hardware and software people team up to radically change the way things work, you will have four choices (as far as I can see). Number one: being a nice cooperative consumer of DRM enabled hardware, software and media. Number 2: using systems that have no DRM (older platforms, Chineese Dragon* chips, etc.) Number 3: be a cracker of DRM computers, and fraglantly ignore the law (DMCA, etc.) Number 4: do any of the above, and remain to be a strong critic of DRM, and make sure the people who matter know what you and the rest of the people like you feel about DRM.

    *You want to buy silicon designed by a country that is probably most well known for ignoring the human rights of their enormous population? Sounds like bargining with the devil to me. They censor everything; what makes you think their chips won't have some nasty stuff in them as well? It's too early to say they do, but you must admit, the possibility is there. In any case, with this Palladium free computer you may be missing out on your media of choice. You'd better get used to Chineese Pop Culture :) On the other hand, pizza with Sesame Chicken, Lo Mein, and some cabbage might be pretty good!

    I realize I paint an apocalyptic picture here. It might happen, and it might not. The thing is, there are people out there who want to see this scenario unfold (the faster the better.) On the other side of the coin, there are people who don't care (lets face it, some people have more to worry about besides computers and technology.)

    While being outsiders, castaways and criminals may be ok for some of the Open Source community, the vast majority of people don't know anything outside of AOL, MSN, Internet Explorer, Brittney Spheres, etc. To them, Linux is not an option at the moment; perhaps that will start to change in the near future, perhaps not. If (when) DRM gains steam, these people will be a fulcrum for the crowbar that will pry many more into the grasps of Evil. *insert melodramatic music*

    --
    Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.