Superhero Smackdown

Paul writes "Fox News is running a story that asks one of the best geek questions of our generation: who win if Superman and Batman fought one another?. The last this topic was big was during the Spider-Man/AOTC rush in May. I distinctly remember a particular essay that compared Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, any Jedi (particularly Yoda), and James Bond." Obviously the author didn't read DK2 ;) And I put my money on Deadpool, if only because his quips are better.

Comments

No Contest

[LighthouseJ]

Superman. Superman is The Man of Steel and can do anything he wants. Batman is just a guy in a costume, no special powers, just gadgets with names that start with Bat-. Batman also had his sidekick, Robin to help the illusion that Batman was a real superhero.

Re:No Contest

[Sancho]

Any speculation on who would win depends on which of the comic stories/storylines they draw from. For example, in one crossover, Batman kept a single Kryptonite bullet in a vault "just in case." I don't think it was ever explained exactly how he would fire and manage to hit Superman ;)
Beyond that, Superman's powers would have to be exceptionally weak for Batman to win in any modern comic adaptation. The situation would have to be engineered so that Superman's powers were reduced--perhaps through a weakening of the sun's rays, and the two heroes would have to have some reason for fighting, perhaps thinking the other had gone crazy through a series of elaborate framings by one of the criminal organizations.

It could be a really interesting story, but it would have to be done extremely carefully.

As an aside, I recall a long time ago when the Freddy vs. Jason movies were all the talk of the BBSs when the idea of multiple endings was thrown around. The idea was that each theater would be given one of two possible endings to the conflict, where each of the villains was the victor. Of course, a third /could/ have been thrown out there, where they both kill each other. Regardless, a viewer wouldn't know which ending they were going to be seeing until they finally went and saw it, and it would be an incentive to see the film twice (at another theater) to see the alternate ending. This approach is similar to the way Clue was released in theaters, although it was not known ahead of time. Imagine the movie discussions that took place, each person having seen a different ending and thinking the other was full of crap!

Duh...

[xTK-421x]

Superman by a mile... Batman is a highly skilled human, while Superman is a endowed with superhuman strength, speed, intelligence, etc...

Now, Superman vs the Flash, who would win that race?

It's already been settled...

[stubear]

BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS

Batman kicked Supermnan's ass with the help of a biomech suit and some kryptonite. Doesn't matter how he did it, the result was still the same.

Batman...

[SealBeater]

Batman would win, without a doubt. Not only is he sneaky as hell, he prepares for everything. As soon as he heard about Superman, he probably started planning on what to do with him, just in case. And he's got the money to back it up. Superman is cool and all, but he's a farmboy hick at heart. He would just charge straight in, get caught by something that would slow him down and get his jaw broken with Batman's krytonite brass knuckles.

SealBeater

Like Hollywood doesn't have enough problems

[The Evil Couch]

in trying to keep from bastardizing comics. they want to usher in a new era of bite sized cameos and team-ups? man, it's like a shitty aniversary issue or something. As far as batman v superman goes, I distinctly remember batman taking a swing at superman after robin got killed off. he just about broke his hand. come on, it's a no-contest, although as rich as he is, batman could probably reduce superman to living in a cardboard box under a bridge. I'm glad they were smart enough to can that idea.

predator versus aliens, however is an idea that people are actually looking forward to. I think ever since predator 2, where there was an alien skull on display, people have been dying to watch the two races go at it.

and I just don't know about the freddy v. jason thing. I know it's been being kicked around for 10 years or so, unless someone hatches a good plot for it, there's going to be no point in it. it'd just be a race to see who can find people having sex first and then wax them.

Re:Like Hollywood doesn't have enough problems

[giminy]

As far as batman v superman goes, I distinctly remember batman taking a swing at superman after robin got killed off. he just about broke his hand. come on, it's a no-contest

But Batman has defeated Superman several times. You can say all you want about him using kryptonite or getting help, or whatever, but he still won.

Batman has a distinct advantage over everyone in JLA. 1) He's the world's best fighter, hands down. 2) He's the world's smartest detective, hands down. And he has a third advantage, he's not a superhero, he's a normal human. People, especially superheroes, always underestimate him.

predator versus aliens, however is an idea that people are actually looking forward to. I think ever since predator 2, where there was an alien skull on display, people have been dying to watch the two races go at it.

Well, I think we know who won that fight, then :).

Re:Like Hollywood doesn't have enough problems

[Zordak]

1) He's the world's best fighter, hands down. 2) He's the world's smartest detective, hands down. And he has a third advantage, he's not a superhero, he's a normal human.

Batman is just a wannabe, "me too" rip-off of The Shadow, the original non-super-hero master of the night. The Shadow is a better fighter than Batman, a better detective, much smarter, and doesn't go around with silly body armor (which is really just a shoe-in for super powers). He'd kick all of their butts before they so much as knew that he was there. All they'd know is "after we got our butts kicked, we heard this really creepy, mirthless laughter."

AvP

[Lightwarrior]

That's a very well written article that links to a number of great AvP resources out there. Of course, it fails to go where this subject has already been delved:

Comic Books.

Aliens versus Predator was originally (IIRC) a short in Dark Horse Presents, that was spun off into its own comic. The first series was great - it was about a group of humans who colonized a Predator 'Hunt' planet unbeknownst to the Predators, so when the Predators seeded the planet with Alien eggs they got more than they bargained for (of course, it's more complex than that). There have been a number of other comics (and books) in the same vein, all of them with their good points and bad points.

But one can't speak of comic crossovers without speaking of Batman v. Predator, Aliens v. Predator v. Terminator, Superman v. Aliens - not to mention the various Marvel and DC comics that are about pitting one superhero against another (X-Men and Batman are just versus of the week). The list is virtually endless. It's a lot cheaper to make a comic than a movie, but I think most of these ideas have real merit.

I really, really hope AvP is made into a movie - it's already had two great and successful video games. Of course, we'd have to wait until it came out on DVD to see it ;)

-lw

Re:Rollins VS Danzig

[Neologic]

Actually a few years ago, I got the chance to ask Henry Rollins this question. He laughed and said that Danzig was a good friend of his. He also added that Danzig did a lot of martial arts and would beat the crap out of him.

Re:That's easy

[GMontag]

Actually, Batman was GIVEN Cryptonite by Superman, just in case Superman went nuts and had to be subdued.

Thus, Batman would win hands down.

Don't let the leotard fool you.

[BoBaBrain]

Superman's real "weaknesses" are his morals. Sure he is all-powerful, but he is also strictly confined within his own rules. Defined purely by his own boundaries he has become a predictable, pliable tool.

Batman's weakness is clearly physical and his boundaries seem to be imposed upon him by nature. However he will do whatever is necessary to break and bend these shortcomings. Can't fly? Get a batwing. No heat-ray eyes? Use lasers. As such Batman's real limit is his ingenuity.

So who would win? Unstoppable but self-restraining force vs. struggling, but limitless potential.


It really seems to be a foregone conclusion.

From the comics...

[quantax]

I personally have not read the comics concerned, but had discussions of this with a friend who is an avid comic collector/reader. He said that whenever Batman has battled Superman in the comics, Batman usually comes out on top due to his cleverness and possession of a bit of kyptonite.

Batman is unique that he does not have super powers, but is a razer honed human in terms of his abilities, and has many very cool gadgets for any situation that may arise. He might not be able to fly at will, shoot lasers out of his eyes, move like lightening, or be able to manipulate the physics forces around him, but he's one clever, *determined* bastard. When I think of revenge in the justice sense, Batman is the image that comes to mind. He is a dark, human superhero that fights for very human reasons.

Re:Real vs. imaginary superheroes

[Silverhammer]

Blockquoth the poster:

This desire to see bloodshed between our heroes is obviously human nature, take the popularity of MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch.

Celebrity Deathmatch is popular not because they're heroes but because they're NOT heroes. They are the spoiled, obnoxious, inbred children of our grotesque pop culture, and watching them beat the crap out of each other fulfills that secret fantasy we all have of doing it ourselves in real life.

Real fighting between real heroes... nope, that just wouldn't be very enjoyable.

Batman has done this before!!

[aWalrus]

Batman is easily the most driven, clever and obsessed human being in the face of the earth. He never goes into a fight unprepared, and anticipates most of his fights. When he's about to do something that could be misinterpreted, like maybe kick some senator's ass or something (always to good reason, only no one else knows) he prepares for the possible confrontation with the local group of superheroes. For Superman, he keeps a dossier with all his battle moves, alternative methods of destroying him (yes, he CAN be hurt, and not just with kryptonite). He does the same for every member of the Justice League.

In Dark Knight, by Frank Miller, Batman kicked Superman's ass big time. Then, in JLA, R'as Al'Ghul (correct sp?) stole batman's profiles of the JLA with the ways of neutralizing each of them, and proceeded to swiftly remove them from the picture (for Batman he stole his parent's bodies, and he went nuts). In short: Batman will beat anyone you care to throw at him (well, he may have some trouble with Lobo, if only because he is more Bugs Bunny like in that he takes a lickin' and keeps a' kickin)
--

An Interesting Alternate Universe Idea

[Spencerian]

It's probably been done before, but imagine Kal-El dropping down on Earth, but in Nazi Germany, not the U.S. Nazis train him to become their supersoldier, their ubermann.

In the U.S., Bruce Wayne is a major contributor the war effort, and does his Batman thing. When he hears of the this "superman" laying waste to many of his finest weapons supplied to the Allied effort, he does a little research and takes on this new menace, personally.

Now THAT would be an interesting Batman/Superman story, hero and antihero, and without Superman's current morality limitations. Nazi Supes would crush Batman without a second thought unless Batman was very, very careful.

Re:An Interesting Alternate Universe Idea

[thud2000]

There's actually a miniseries (comics format, not TV) in the works similar to this, called Superman: Red Son, where Superman crashes to earth in the USSR instead of Kansas and becomes the champion of Soviet ideals instead of Truth, Justice and the American Way. I think current big-shot comics author Mark Waid is writing it, correct me if I'm wrong.
I actually like your Nazi idea better though.

Re:An Interesting Alternate Universe Idea

[Cranst0n]

On a side note, they did an Elsworlds story where Thomas and Martha Wayne find Supes as a child, he wathces them get killed, becomes the Batman and by the end of the story becomes superman. I highly recommend this one. It really shows how close at times supes and the Bat can be.

Re:An Interesting Alternate Universe Idea

[RDW]

Kim Newman's short story Ubermensch has a brown-shirted Superhero (alter ego 'Curt Kessler') fighting the villains of Fritz Lang and other Expressionist movies in an alternate nazi Germany (the capital is, of course, Metropolis). He survives the war, but is imprisoned for decades like Rudolph Hess, while Rotwang (the villain of Metropolis) goes to work on a US weapons program that eventually produces a 'K-bomb'. Spoilers and notes here:

http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/ubermensch.html

(According to that link, a (secretly Jewish) German 'Batman' has also been done).

Ubermensch doesn't seem to be available online, but another of Kim Newman's short stories with an interesting take on the superhero genre is:

http://www.johnnyalucard.com/coastal.html

Who would win....

[Anonymous Coward]

The bad guys. While Superman and Batman were busy duking it out, think how much of their world domination schemes they could put in place. Not to mention, it'd be alot easier to capture the victor after the fight... ;)

It's so clear

[SilkBD]

Come on guys, it's so clear.

If Batman has kryptonite, it's either a stalemate or he wins (if he gets close enough).

If Batman does not have kryptonite, he is dead. I don't care what technology he has... superman is invulnerable to everything except kryptonite.

Re:Dumbest question ever

[Xerithane]

Obviously, unless Batman has some kryptonite stashed in his utility belt, he's thoroughly F'd if he messes with the Man of Steel.

Have the /. editors ever read any comic books? Batman is a normal guy. He just has a fancy suit and a lot of gadgets and training. It's no contest.

Does it hurt to be this ignorant?

Batman has already won, it was in comic books. You seem to be underestimating the fact he's a few orders of magnitude smarter than Superman and has unlimited funding. Let me reiterate this for you, Batman has already beat Supes. DKR, DKR, Frank Miller; they are your friends.

Re:Real vs. imaginary superheroes

[kenthu]

RMS would get his ass kicked:

"I have practiced Moo Do, an eclectic martial art based on Tae Kwon Do. In November 1997 I attained the rank of Black Belt (1st Dan). I am now studying aikido at Turk's Head Aikikai." -- ESR (from http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/personal.html)

Re:The King....

[BoneFlower]

"In Superman they've created a superhero who is just too strong to be beaten."

Thats why Smallville is worth watching(though I don't, no TV in my room grr..). His powers are still manifesting, and as a teenager, he still struggles with moral dillemas rather than seeing it all in black and white. What gets me most about Superman, is there is little moral struggle. It may have developed more though, been a while since I read comics of any sort regularly.

Batman anyday.

[katsushiro]

Here's the deal: without superpowers, just being a normal guy who's pushed himself to the very limit of human physical and mental perfection (and acquired more than a few neuroses along the way), Batman routinely does things in the Justice League that the rest of the team, with all their earth-shattering superpowers, can't even begin to comprehend. My favorite example of all this was in one of the JLA comics, where the entire league was battling a group of Martian invaders. There were maybe 7 martians, every single one of them almost an equal for Superman in sheer power. Needless to say, they were mopping up the planet with the JLA. In the final confrontation, the team split up into pairs to try and take the martians down one by one. The only ones who didnt pair up with anyone were Supes and Bats. So Supes manages to take one down all by himself after a long, hard-fought battle. Meanwhile, wonder-woman and Aquaman take one down between the two of them.. Martian Manhunter and GL take down one.. and so on.. Except for Batman. He goes off to the Batlair for a bit.. does some research, and finds out that the Martian's weakness is fire. So.. he grabs a can of lighter fluid, some matches, and sets off to catch himself some aliens. He lures three of them to an abandoned warehouse.. and spritzes some lighter fluid in a circle around him. when the martians get close enough in a radius around him, he tosses a lit match into the lighter fluid, creating a nice little enclosed ring of fire. then he smiles, and gets to work.

Resolution? All the other JLA heroes show up dragging their subdued martians, everybody looking all beat up and bedraggled, and bitching about how there's still three more martians to take care of. Then someone notices Batman's not around. As they look around for him, he shows up, dragging *three* unconscious martians, and not a scratch on him, and a smile from ear to ear.

Score: Superman- One martian (and just barely at that). Batman- Three martians, without even breaking a sweat. Everyone else - maybe half a martian.

My money's on the guy in the bat suit. :)

This has already been decided.

[brickbat]

The Dark Knight Returns tells you all you need to know: Batman well and truly kicks Superman's ass, with an assist from Green Arrow and all sorts of high-tech gear. Then Wayne appears to drop dead from a heart attack.

The motivation for Batman challenging Superman is a bit more complex, but in a nutshell: the Man of Steel is working for the guvmint, and has been used to to stamp out vigilantism of the sort practiced by Wayne and the Green Arrow--in fact, the latter loses one of his arms after Superman rips it off. (Thus his motivation for helping Batman.) So Superman represents an oppressive, Reagan-era government, and Batman of course is the freedom fighter struggling to reclaim the streets. That oversimplifies it a lot, but it does nicely set up the climactic showdown.

how would that be a contest?

[Gavitron_zero]

Even more fun would be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles vs. Power Rangers, or Pokemon vs. Dragon Ball Z. Why does everything have to be a boxing match, I want to see an all out brawl!

That's a good idea, but considering that in the DBZ world, Goku has god-like abilities (i.e. can destroy planets and such) how would this be even remotely fair? It'd be over before it began. TMNT versus Power Rangers might be good for a laugh though. But what would those turtles do when the rangers call their robots? Steal the Terror Drome?

Sorry, your all wrong

[sherms]

I would have to say "Q" from STNG would kick ass over anyone.

Sherm

Ah, the most All American of our costumed heroes

[Rogerborg]

By which I mean Batman, not Superman. See this kuro5hin article for why.

Re:Dumbest question ever

[Xerithane]

All that proves is that a smart writer can give Bats the victory. The Bat COULD win, but he's still the underdog in this fight. Even WITH kryptonite.

It's a well known facet of the entire DC world. Superman gave Batman kryptonite because Batman is the only person who could possibly defeat Supes. With kryptonite Batman would whoop ass. Bruce Wayne is a genius. Superman is not. Brains win, anything Superman can do with his strength Batman can counter with strategy.

Oh damnit.. I feel like I'm 12 again.

Re:Dumbest question ever

[Cro Magnon]

But, contrary to popular opinion, Superman's not just dumb muscle. He's pretty damn smart himself. And he knows that Batman has the kryptonite, and can plan for that. It's not a simple case of brains vs brawn, since Superman has both.

Oh damnit.. I feel like I'm 12 again.

Since I'm arguing about a fictional flying man, I'd better not respond to that one. :)

Re:Wasn't this settled?

[Archfeld]

Actually Batman wins, TWICE, just because of that Green Krypotonite he keeps around.....I guess it just depends on which comic you follow, or the TV show...

Superman v. Batman

[surfcow]

I like the vision of these two in the Dark Knight Returns:

Superman: respects authority without questioning, champion of the state and it's laws, easily manipulated by his ethics, somewhat simple-minded, suckered by authoritarian propaganda. Hard-working middle-class background. Firmly believes in democracy.

Batman: definitely questions authority, champion of individual rights, breaks laws as needed, more interested in justice than doing the right thing. Aristocratic background. Firmly believes that some people are better than others.

These two are really on different sides of the political spectrum. Batman would be a hard core Libritarian or an anarchist, and Supes would likely be a puppet for the GOP.

It's already been done, fools!

[CAIMLAS]

DC Comics made an issue years ago where this actually happened. If I remember it correctly, Batman used a piece of kryptonite and weakened Superman, then commenced to beat the living super-doo from him for something he'd done - likely being an incompetent super-fiend. I'm sure most people would guess this, since Superman is just... superman. He's blind to the facts and all about truth, justice, and the "American" way. Batman's all about getting the job done the right way, or simply about just getting it done. He uses his head.

On a side note, superman is just too unbelieveable. He's a bygone artifact of another era of America's history, sadly enough.

As far as deadpool is concerned... I'm thinking he and batman would get along well, what little I know of deadpool. :P The two of them, teamed up with Wolverine would be an incredible asskicking combination.

I wonder if Wolverine could beat up Superman, personally. Superman is the Man of Steel, and Wolverine has adamantium (sp?) claws - which can cut through steel. (I'm thinking of the earlier Superman, not the pre-Doomsday Superman that was practically invincible and nothing could touch him - which is why they killed him, to bring him down a bit) Not only that, but Wolvie can heal really quickly. Considering Wolverine has caught a blast from sentinals before, and undergone hell, I think he could do it. :P I was really hoping for that during the Marvel/DC crossover. Instead they did Superman vs. Hulk... bah.

What ever happened to taht crossover universe, anyway? I've not been seeing any comics from it.