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Superhero Smackdown
Paul writes "Fox News is running a story that asks one of the best geek questions of our generation: who win if Superman and Batman fought one another?. The last this topic was big was during the Spider-Man/AOTC rush in May. I distinctly remember a particular essay that compared Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, any Jedi (particularly Yoda), and James Bond." Obviously the author didn't read DK2 ;) And I put my money on Deadpool, if only because his quips are better.
Batman wins through guile, then spares Superman's life. Film at eleven.
This desire to see bloodshed between our heroes is obviously human nature, take the popularity of MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch.
So why haven't we seen more things like exhibitional wrestling matches between Paul Allen, Steve Ballmer, and Bill Gates?
Or ESR and RMS?
Have you been stalked by Seth today?
Spur of the moment drunken brawl: Superman, no question.
Planned event: Batman, hands down.
(unless theyre limited to their bare hands)
Always bet on the sneaky pragmatic bastard.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
One question does come to mind, since they both always "fought evil", which one is going to turn to make this possible.
Even more fun would be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles vs. Power Rangers, or Pokemon vs. Dragon Ball Z. Why does everything have to be a boxing match, I want to see an all out brawl!
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Of course. Batman is just a talented schizophrenic drunk millionaire with an adopted boy good at solving riddles. Hell, Superman wouldn't even need to do anything, Batman would probably off himself.
Ahhhh! How could you people forget one of the best - Inspector Gadget!
given sufficient stem-cell research
Superman by a mile... Batman is a highly skilled human, while Superman is a endowed with superhuman strength, speed, intelligence, etc...
Now, Superman vs the Flash, who would win that race?
"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS
Batman kicked Supermnan's ass with the help of a biomech suit and some kryptonite. Doesn't matter how he did it, the result was still the same.
I want real world cage matches.
I want to see Henry Rollins and Danzig get it on.
Rollins would be intellectualizing his moves blow by blow. He would enter the ring babbling in low tones about the state of human relationships and work himself up into a screaming rage while inflating his neck like some iguana on steroids.
Danzig would be continually wiping the runny makeup out of his eyes as he started to sweat. Singing about how his mother could bang better heads than Hank.
That would be entertainment.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Jon Katz owned the Spider-Man vs. AOTC debate. I'd bet his take on this one would make a good read. Anyone know what became of him?
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
(slight spoilers ahead)
/. editors ever read any comic books?
Have the
Did you ever read Dark Knight Returns? Of _course_ he has kryptonite in his utility belt!!
Winner: Spongebob Squarepants
Batman would win, without a doubt. Not only is he sneaky as hell, he prepares for everything. As soon as he heard about Superman, he probably started planning on what to do with him, just in case. And he's got the money to back it up. Superman is cool and all, but he's a farmboy hick at heart. He would just charge straight in, get caught by something that would slow him down and get his jaw broken with Batman's krytonite brass knuckles.
SealBeater
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
Have you ever read comic books? The only known kyrptonite was given to batman from superman to stop him in case he goes crazy. I agree with what others are saying. If Batman attacks then he wins but if superman attacks first he wins (b/c batman doesn't carry around the kryptonite 24/7).
Yeah, but Batman'd be bright enough (and rich enough) to stock a good supply of kryptonite.
Plus, Superman draws his powers from the yellow rays of the sun - and is useless at night. At least thats how it used to be in the comic. He also originally couldn't fly - just jump really high (tall buildings in a single bound).
Superman's a clod. He just brute forces everything, he has no technique or skill or intelligence.
Just watch Justice League. Batman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and the Flash will be ducking and dodging attacks left and right, then coming up with some innovative method to take out the enemy.
Superman and Wonder Woman just take it head on and get plowed through a concrete wall, then get up and get smashed again, until they finally prevail.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
in trying to keep from bastardizing comics. they want to usher in a new era of bite sized cameos and team-ups? man, it's like a shitty aniversary issue or something. As far as batman v superman goes, I distinctly remember batman taking a swing at superman after robin got killed off. he just about broke his hand. come on, it's a no-contest, although as rich as he is, batman could probably reduce superman to living in a cardboard box under a bridge. I'm glad they were smart enough to can that idea.
predator versus aliens, however is an idea that people are actually looking forward to. I think ever since predator 2, where there was an alien skull on display, people have been dying to watch the two races go at it.
and I just don't know about the freddy v. jason thing. I know it's been being kicked around for 10 years or so, unless someone hatches a good plot for it, there's going to be no point in it. it'd just be a race to see who can find people having sex first and then wax them.
The World's Worst Webcomic!
Far back in the mists of time, or sixteen years ago if you're being less poetic, I was a DM'ing my first set of D&D games. I created the Eruvia continent for the setting, and populated it with various goodies, nasties and a chief baddy - The King.
The King was a stunningly powerful lych, and it soon became clear that if this guy drifted in to the game, the balance of power was ended. Put simply - the King was too strong, and ruined all the games because players went up against him and just instanteneously died.
I'm not deeply into comics, but Superman seems to be that character to me. In Superman they've created a superhero who is just too strong to be beaten.
I fixed my game world by arranging for the King to die courtesy of some unspecified magic tool. The games became interesting again. Similarly, I was encouraged a while ago that Superman was to be killed off, but apparently they've wimped out of that and brought him back to life.
I suppose then my pick would be Superman. But it's not a pick I make with any great enthusiasm. It's an unbalanced character.
Cheers,
Ian
That's a very well written article that links to a number of great AvP resources out there. Of course, it fails to go where this subject has already been delved:
;)
Comic Books.
Aliens versus Predator was originally (IIRC) a short in Dark Horse Presents, that was spun off into its own comic. The first series was great - it was about a group of humans who colonized a Predator 'Hunt' planet unbeknownst to the Predators, so when the Predators seeded the planet with Alien eggs they got more than they bargained for (of course, it's more complex than that). There have been a number of other comics (and books) in the same vein, all of them with their good points and bad points.
But one can't speak of comic crossovers without speaking of Batman v. Predator, Aliens v. Predator v. Terminator, Superman v. Aliens - not to mention the various Marvel and DC comics that are about pitting one superhero against another (X-Men and Batman are just versus of the week). The list is virtually endless. It's a lot cheaper to make a comic than a movie, but I think most of these ideas have real merit.
I really, really hope AvP is made into a movie - it's already had two great and successful video games. Of course, we'd have to wait until it came out on DVD to see it
-lw
Mods: Disagreeing with me != my post Offtopic / Flamebait.
World without hate or war, invaded. Tragic?
MacGyver vs Walker Texas Ranger!
That would be one hell of a fight! GoooOOOO MacGyveeeeer!
Enig? Det alt for hot det smor!
Here are the stats . :(
Now, we all know Batman would win. He's got a big ol' kryptonite medallion, that Superman gave him himself, to use in case he was ever controlled by sume supervillain. Along with a speech about how Batman was the only person he would trust with it. I read that comic, but can't find the reference for the life of me
It's generally considered fact that if Batman had enough time to plan, he could defeat God.
Superman would be trivial. Clark/Superman = strong as an ox, dumb as a stump.
This desire to see bloodshed between our heroes is obviously human nature, take the popularity of MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch.
Or of Nintendo's Super Smash Bros. Melee.
I'm just waiting for Super Smash Bros. 3: Nintendo vs Sega, or Nintendo vs Capcom, or (better yet) Nintendo vs Disney. Mario could tear apart Mickey Mouse, but I'm not all too sure Kinopio could beat Pinocchio.
Will I retire or break 10K?
"Batman vs. Superman" is set to be a movie in '04. It's right here folks!
It's being directed by Wolfgang Petersen.
It's being made by Warner Brothers so it's a mystery why Fox is asking the question and not Warner Brothers. Maybe Fox is asking FOR Warner Brothers and the top moderated scenarios that you folks are giving will be used.
Taco, you in on this?
So in other words, if the fight is in a Batman comic, Batman is going to win. If it's in one of Superman's, Superman is going to win. If it's in a combination, there can never be an absolute winner.
I hope that helps.
"If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka
Batman did kick supermans ass but he was wearing a biomechanical suit and had some kryptonite.
Now, if it was a nude grecko roman wrestling match, If superman didn't just kill him outright, he could
a) light his balls on fire with his heat vision.
b) break every bone in his body and then grind him into a flesh colored paste.
c) fly him into out space and enjoy watching the effects of an absolute vacuum.
d) Imagine the scene in Snatch when the parkie puches out gorgeous george? Not imagine if georges head popped off...
e) superman could scoop up a bunch of rock, melt it into a ball, make a cavity in the ball, knock out batman, put him into the ball, seal the ball and then either throw it into the sun or slam it into the moon...
Needless to say, without his technology, batman would be screwed....
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
The four superheros mentioned recently have had a resurgence in both the skill of their writers and the depth of their stories. Here are, I think, the great books with these characters. All are still available at your local comic shop:
Superman: For All Seasons (Jeph Loeb)
Batman: Year One (Miller), Dark Knight Returns (Miller), The Killing Joke (Moore), Officer Down (Rucka), Bruce Wayne Fugitive:Murderer (Rucka).
Spider-Man: A Day in the Life (Jenkins), anything by J.Michael Strazinski (from Babylon5. yes, he writes spiderman).
Deadpool: The current Agent X storyline, The Circle Chase or any trade paperback you can find. This guy is harder to find.
Except that every Imperial starship has to be built with at least one weak point where a single shot will blow the whole thing to hell. It's, like Imperial Starship Regulation 127-2, paragraph C, or something. All the Enterprise has to do is get a photon torpedo in the right place, and ... ;)
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
...you should never, ever bring up in a geek forum:
Spider-Man versus Wolverine
Superman versus Hulk
Thanos versus everybody
The Joker versus Hostess Fruit Pies
CowboyNeal versus Grodd the Gorilla
They're both good guys, why do we want to kick the crap out of each other? I'd be more interested in watching Megatron and Optimus Prime go at it (fighting, I don't know how the other interpretation would work with Transformers) than Duke and Lady Jane or something.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Any speculation on who would win depends on which of the comic stories/storylines they draw from. For example, in one crossover, Batman kept a single Kryptonite bullet in a vault "just in case." I don't think it was ever explained exactly how he would fire and manage to hit Superman ;)
/could/ have been thrown out there, where they both kill each other. Regardless, a viewer wouldn't know which ending they were going to be seeing until they finally went and saw it, and it would be an incentive to see the film twice (at another theater) to see the alternate ending. This approach is similar to the way Clue was released in theaters, although it was not known ahead of time. Imagine the movie discussions that took place, each person having seen a different ending and thinking the other was full of crap!
Beyond that, Superman's powers would have to be exceptionally weak for Batman to win in any modern comic adaptation. The situation would have to be engineered so that Superman's powers were reduced--perhaps through a weakening of the sun's rays, and the two heroes would have to have some reason for fighting, perhaps thinking the other had gone crazy through a series of elaborate framings by one of the criminal organizations.
It could be a really interesting story, but it would have to be done extremely carefully.
As an aside, I recall a long time ago when the Freddy vs. Jason movies were all the talk of the BBSs when the idea of multiple endings was thrown around. The idea was that each theater would be given one of two possible endings to the conflict, where each of the villains was the victor. Of course, a third
Let's compare the two:
Superman: Clean-cut country boy in the big city, small town values, all round good guy, always fight's fair.
Batman: Traumatic child hood, watch his parents get killed, grew up in a corporate world where it is dog eat dog to survive, does what ever is needed to win, thinks out of the box.
Superman see Batman as another super hero good guy, thinks he could use a hug.
Batman on the other hand looks at Superman as competition, and would look for weak spots to exploit for his own personal gain. Of course he would know all about Kryptonite and the means to get it.
Batman would have a natural upper hand on Superman, based on his background.
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
Superman's real "weaknesses" are his morals. Sure he is all-powerful, but he is also strictly confined within his own rules. Defined purely by his own boundaries he has become a predictable, pliable tool.
Batman's weakness is clearly physical and his boundaries seem to be imposed upon him by nature. However he will do whatever is necessary to break and bend these shortcomings. Can't fly? Get a batwing. No heat-ray eyes? Use lasers. As such Batman's real limit is his ingenuity.
So who would win? Unstoppable but self-restraining force vs. struggling, but limitless potential.
It really seems to be a foregone conclusion.
I am a Karma Library.
I personally have not read the comics concerned, but had discussions of this with a friend who is an avid comic collector/reader. He said that whenever Batman has battled Superman in the comics, Batman usually comes out on top due to his cleverness and possession of a bit of kyptonite.
Batman is unique that he does not have super powers, but is a razer honed human in terms of his abilities, and has many very cool gadgets for any situation that may arise. He might not be able to fly at will, shoot lasers out of his eyes, move like lightening, or be able to manipulate the physics forces around him, but he's one clever, *determined* bastard. When I think of revenge in the justice sense, Batman is the image that comes to mind. He is a dark, human superhero that fights for very human reasons.
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
If Batman had superman's powers, he wouldn't wear the blue leotard; he'd wear kryptonite proof armour.
Superman needs a belt to keep his underpants up forcryingoutloud. And they're outside his trousers.
I am a Karma Library.
Here's a tip for all you virginal geeks out there... this is a pretty fun bar discussion. Good at getting geeky chicks to talk without having to resort to discussion IO speeds vs seek rates of SCSI vs. IDE.
God, I can't believe how many of you geeks manage to horribly mangle the plot of "The Dark Knight Returns". You must write for hollywood. I'm not even a damn fanboy, and I can synopsize the battle more accurrately.
Batman plans ahead and is prepared while big dopey Superman comes blundering in to take B into custody because the powers that be say he's a "bad boy".
Batman gives S a dose of the K, smacks him around with some missles while he's weakened, and generally beats him until he cries like a little girl. They point that out in the story that Batman wants Superman to know that he got his ass kicked, and by whom.
Then, having already thought through the scenario, B knows that even if he wins, that the world has changed, and he can't operate openly anymore. So he has a chemical concotion, that he thought up with his big brain, that puts him in a coma.
Superman thinks he's killed B, and cries again. Batman sculks off to continue to use his big brain to fight evil from the shadows.
Basicly, Batman wins because he's a big smarty-man, but then throws the fight. In the bigger picture, they're both victims of circumstance, and have to comprimise to survive in the world.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
what would "Steamboat Willie's" special moves be?
Punitive litigation, I imagine.
"Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
This scenario has already been done.
Batman: Dark Knight Returns
Yes, Superman is the man of steel, but with planning, resources and a little help from an old friend (who happens to have a bit of a grudge against Superman) Batman kicks his little blue schoolboy ass. Not to mention that Batman happens to be 70 years old at the time.
It's a great read!
Amazon link
I hate my sig.
Its from Capcom - the LEGO guy is a SERVbot from the Megaman Legends games - and the Misadventures of Tronne Bonne - Tronne's in that game too, I think. The LEGO guys are her servants.
While we're wondering about this, can I just step in and ask: how many angels will fit on the head of a pin?
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
It's probably been done before, but imagine Kal-El dropping down on Earth, but in Nazi Germany, not the U.S. Nazis train him to become their supersoldier, their ubermann.
In the U.S., Bruce Wayne is a major contributor the war effort, and does his Batman thing. When he hears of the this "superman" laying waste to many of his finest weapons supplied to the Allied effort, he does a little research and takes on this new menace, personally.
Now THAT would be an interesting Batman/Superman story, hero and antihero, and without Superman's current morality limitations. Nazi Supes would crush Batman without a second thought unless Batman was very, very careful.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Yes, I know you're trying to be funny.
I'm bored. Sue me.
Batman/Bruce Wayne doesn't drink. He's a billionare, and Dick Greyson was not adopted in the comic book until about 3 months ago, and he's in no way a "boy" anymore, being a grown man in his early 20's.
http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?3357354385
He's Hella Tough
Mr. T vs Everything
Superman avoids using his X-Ray vision on other men. Its kinda like the way we look straight ahead and never down and to the side while using public urinals.
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible -W.B.
Oh come on people, there's no contest at all. The one person who can kick anyone's ass is Mr. T.
And I quote:
Mr. T: [in answer to a youngster who wanted to know who was tougher, Mr. T or Batman]
Mr. T is tougher. Batman would never go into the 'hood. Mr. T will go into the 'hood.
End of story. There's also the classic "Mr. T vs. Superman" but it's not up anymore. In any event, Mr. T can kick pretty much anyone's ass.
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
One is a rich dork in real life and his alter ego is the cool superhero.
The other one is a cool superhero naturally, but his alter ego is a dork.
Yeah, tough to see which one the Slashdot crowd would pick.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Obviously, unless Batman has some kryptonite stashed in his utility belt, he's thoroughly F'd if he messes with the Man of Steel.
/. editors ever read any comic books? Batman is a normal guy. He just has a fancy suit and a lot of gadgets and training. It's no contest.
Have the
Does it hurt to be this ignorant?
Batman has already won, it was in comic books. You seem to be underestimating the fact he's a few orders of magnitude smarter than Superman and has unlimited funding. Let me reiterate this for you, Batman has already beat Supes. DKR, DKR, Frank Miller; they are your friends.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The Dark Knight Returns tells you all you need to know: Batman well and truly kicks Superman's ass, with an assist from Green Arrow and all sorts of high-tech gear. Then Wayne appears to drop dead from a heart attack.
The motivation for Batman challenging Superman is a bit more complex, but in a nutshell: the Man of Steel is working for the guvmint, and has been used to to stamp out vigilantism of the sort practiced by Wayne and the Green Arrow--in fact, the latter loses one of his arms after Superman rips it off. (Thus his motivation for helping Batman.) So Superman represents an oppressive, Reagan-era government, and Batman of course is the freedom fighter struggling to reclaim the streets. That oversimplifies it a lot, but it does nicely set up the climactic showdown.
This link tells about the battle between an aging Batman, and a superman weakened by a nuclear winter.
In a way, Batman has gone crazy; crazy with doubt and violence.
Anyhow, you can read it for yourself.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Thank you God, Miracles do happen.
dave "Now kill Fred Phelps"
That's a good idea, but considering that in the DBZ world, Goku has god-like abilities (i.e. can destroy planets and such) how would this be even remotely fair? It'd be over before it began. TMNT versus Power Rangers might be good for a laugh though. But what would those turtles do when the rangers call their robots? Steal the Terror Drome?
Are we talking Batman from Dark Knight Returns or Batman from The Amazing Adventures of Batman and Robin TV series? And are we talking Superman from Superman the Movie or Superman from Superman vs. Doomsday? This is crucial because if we're talking Adam West vs. the Superman that died at the hands of Doomsday....Holy Beasts of Burden, Batman...Mr. West is a dead man. But I think he could kick Christopher Reeve's ass.
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
I would have to say "Q" from STNG would kick ass over anyone.
Sherm
Now, before I get modded OT, let me say I know this discussion is about the two guys in tights mixing it up. Nevertheless, I'm amazed there's a /. topic about our boy from Krypton where no one has posted a link to Larry Niven's classic essay on Superman's sex life, Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex. You can find it on varius places on the web, but this is one of the better formatted ones. You will at least snicker, perhaps even LOL.
Er, then again, maybe someone did post the link but they got modded down below all threshold. Oh, well, it's only Karma.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
By which I mean Batman, not Superman. See this kuro5hin article for why.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
One small problem - as seen in Superman (II?), Superman can zoom really fast around the globe and reverse time, go back to before Batman aquired said Kryptonite, and then beat the shit out of him.
That, coupled with X-ray vision, heat (laser)vision, super strength, invulernability, flight, well, he's kinda misbalanced.
If you want to go back to the original, "Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound," fine, he's got super speed, invulernability, super jump, X-ray vision, and super strength. Still would put my money on him, as that "faster than a speeding bullet" means he can break the sound barrier, which probably would be enough to be able to take out batman.
Batman is a wuss - he's like Velma and Fred rolled into a single character, with Johnny Quest's foolhardy bravado, then given lots of money and stature within the city. He romps around the city in tights and rubber armor with a boy wonder... If you've ever read Mark Leigh and Mike Lepine's "How to be a Superhero" (NBM Books: 1992) (some excerpts here - probably among the funniest books I've ever read... but out of print) you'll have heard this before, but "People talk..."
About your dodging thing - what a wussy way out. Superman takes it like a man. He's probably faster than the Flash, as well as more powerful, he just doesn't flaunt his super-speed like that piss ant hero. Don't even get me going on Aquaman...
Enough knocking Wonder Woman - Wonder Woman has magic bracers that deflect bullets. Batman has... a utility belt. Wonder woman has an invisible plane to get around (at least in superfriends). Batman has... a nice car (but hey, it is jet powered...). Wonder Woman has a magic lasso that makes Batman passive and tell only the truth... Batman has... Robin!
All that proves is that a smart writer can give Bats the victory. The Bat COULD win, but he's still the underdog in this fight. Even WITH kryptonite.
It's a well known facet of the entire DC world. Superman gave Batman kryptonite because Batman is the only person who could possibly defeat Supes. With kryptonite Batman would whoop ass. Bruce Wayne is a genius. Superman is not. Brains win, anything Superman can do with his strength Batman can counter with strategy.
Oh damnit.. I feel like I'm 12 again.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Actually Batman wins, TWICE, just because of that Green Krypotonite he keeps around.....I guess it just depends on which comic you follow, or the TV show...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
DC Comics made an issue years ago where this actually happened. If I remember it correctly, Batman used a piece of kryptonite and weakened Superman, then commenced to beat the living super-doo from him for something he'd done - likely being an incompetent super-fiend. I'm sure most people would guess this, since Superman is just... superman. He's blind to the facts and all about truth, justice, and the "American" way. Batman's all about getting the job done the right way, or simply about just getting it done. He uses his head.
:P The two of them, teamed up with Wolverine would be an incredible asskicking combination.
:P I was really hoping for that during the Marvel/DC crossover. Instead they did Superman vs. Hulk... bah.
On a side note, superman is just too unbelieveable. He's a bygone artifact of another era of America's history, sadly enough.
As far as deadpool is concerned... I'm thinking he and batman would get along well, what little I know of deadpool.
I wonder if Wolverine could beat up Superman, personally. Superman is the Man of Steel, and Wolverine has adamantium (sp?) claws - which can cut through steel. (I'm thinking of the earlier Superman, not the pre-Doomsday Superman that was practically invincible and nothing could touch him - which is why they killed him, to bring him down a bit) Not only that, but Wolvie can heal really quickly. Considering Wolverine has caught a blast from sentinals before, and undergone hell, I think he could do it.
What ever happened to taht crossover universe, anyway? I've not been seeing any comics from it.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers