Tivo and SonicBlue Settle Dispute

Shippy writes "According to this article at the Stereophile Guide to Home Theatre, Tivo and SonicBlue have decided to dismiss all patent-infringement claims 'without prejudice' and instead focus their energies on energizing the DVR market. 'We believe our energies are better spent expanding the market for DVRs rather than fighting each other,' the former adversaries said in a joint statement. The article also discusses their plans for marketing and also how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."

Comments

oh. my. god.

[mrpuffypants]

competing companies working together?

prepare for meltdown in 3.....2....1....

without prejudice

[Alien54]

"all patent-infringement claims 'without prejudice'"

IANAL

but if I read this right, this means that if they feel like suing each other over this in the future because they have a falling out, they are completely free to call in the lawyers and have at it.

Sort of like two mafioso movie types, each with a shot gun at the throat of the other. Backing off might be a smart move.

As a Replay owner...

[aslagle]

I agree with this totally...there's more than enough market share out there for both SonicBlue and Tivo. We need to educate people about PVRs, and the functionality that the media is trying to remove from them...not spend money on lawsuits like this.

Re:As a Replay owner...

[brianosaurus]

Totally! I mean, what market only has one option? There's room for PLENTY of competitors. Look at the rest of the consumer electronics market: Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Toshiba... Competition is good.

When I bought my ReplayTV, my friends were all telling me "You should have gotten a Tivo. Tivo will win." Neither will "win". They'll both do just fine for as long as they can. I happened to like the Replay user interface better, so I got it.

In this case, since the whole DVR industry is under fire from the MPAA, and other like-minded nimrods, its a good idea for them to not fight with each other. I mean, what good will it do them to bankrupt the other on some patent if the whole industry gets shut down in the meantime.

Analogy

[LoudMusic]

I picture a running back (football for those less informed) charging down the field and a defender setting up to tackle him. Then BLAMO! the running back plasters the dude and keeps on going.

The defender gets up, dusts himself off and says, "You know, I think you're right. Maybe we should just let this go and concern ourselves more with the offence. K?"

PVR market isn't doomed... Tivo and SonicBlue are.

[Shinzaburo]

These companies have cranked out some very innovative products, for which they deserve much kudos and high praise. But between competition from the gatekeepers (cable and satellite TV companies), Japanese consumer electronics companies, and do-it-yourself PC-based solutions, they don't have much ground to stand on. Selling out to DirecTV or AT&T Cable while they still can is probably their best and safest bet.

Nigh-Impossible to Market

[callott]

Everyone I know who owns a PVR (including me) says the same two things:

-1) I love it and will never, ever give it up.
-2) It's nearly impossible to explain why I feel this way to anyone who doesn't own a PVR themselves.

IMO, #2 is the principal difficulty for SonicBlue and Tivo.

-Cal

Re:Nigh-Impossible to Market

[deanj]

Man, ain't that the truth.

People don't know what they're missing. One of my kids (less than 5) had no idea we couldn't watch her shows whenever we wanted to on one of the other (non-Replay) TVs.

I never miss my favorite shows anymore.

The day my Replay dies is the day I go out and buy another. There's no way I can do without this.

Here is why...

[burnsy]

Because neither company can afford lawyers!

DVR market is doomed???

[dane23]

"...they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."

Time Warner doesn't think it's doomed. They just launched the Explorer 8000 Digital Video Recorder here in Austin, TX.

interesting.... but..

[Lumpy]

The TIVO is still pretty much doomed.
sonic blue at least let's me set the unit's clock, while the TIVO requires that I let them do it.

until Tivo can be purchased and never allowed to dial home AND function properly as a Digital VCR (record at XX:XXpm for 1 hour call it foobar1) I and several others will never buy one.

Re:interesting.... but..

[Puk]

Check here, which was the second google hit on "setting the tivo clock".

E-E-Tivo - If in Debug mode (see C-C-E-E 2 below), lets you set the TiVo's clock. Warning: setting this value may cause all of your Guide data to get "expired". If you want to play with this, keep in mind that TiVo may get mad at you for downloading several copies of your Guide data over the course of a couple of days. The best way to fix a messed up clock without reloading all the Guide data is to do the "Make a Test Call" option. The format of the time entry you use is the same as the format for the settime command. (?)

No, it's not ideal that they make you go through a backdoor to do it, but at least it's possible. Also, a test call might (or might not) work even if you weren't subscribed, but there's no real need. I agree that it should just be a menu option somewhere.

-Puk

Re:interesting.... but..

[ajs]

so you would be happy if the cell company decided to remove the call history feature without telling you?

If I subscribed to a software update service and that's what they did, I would complain to the cell phone company. Are you trying to tell me that being able to subscribe to software updates is wrong, or that their being on by default with TiVo is wrong? Or are you simply ill informed and think tha you cannot turn off the so-called "dial home" feature on a TiVo?

I dont want them to and the only way to keep a TIVO running like it did when it was purchased is to not let it ever talk to the mother company.

Horse hockey. There are a million kits out there for networking support, and the commands required to back your OS out to the network are VERY well documented on a great many sites.

Personally, I don't bother. I vote with my customer support calls and my wallet. So far I've had to use neither, but the day may come when TiVo does something I'm unhappy with and don't want to keep. If they don't offer me an option to back out via customer service, I'll simply buy their competition's device.

so, out of the box, no clock set so you cannot tell it to record at 10 pm

This is also incorrect. You can log into the box and set the time with the "date" command just like any Linux box.

You can also let it make the call in to set the time and get schedule information once and then use it as a digital VCR from then on in. Of course, you won't have all of the most important attributes of a TiVo (like the guide information and TiVo's suggestions), but that's your call.

Let me repeat that for those in the cheap-seats: THAT'S YOUR CALL. You have a Linux-based DVR. Have fun.

and if you let it call home and not subscribe... you get nice pop-up ad's all the time and many functions that should work are disabled. just look at the tivo forums for a list of funtions that do not require any of the guide data to function that are intentionally disabled to "convince" you to subscribe.

I invite people to go have a look at these forums. You will find that the features that are disabled are basically all of the things that require a guide database.

This TiVo paranoia is just silly. Buy the device and use it like they intend. If you find you don't like it 30 days later, take it back to the shop and get your money back and buy a ReplayTV. USE YOUR WALLET TO VOTE.

Re:why I wont buy a DVR yet....

[Fatal0E]

If the two reasons you cited are the only things keeping you from getting one then you haven't researched your options enough.

You can get either a Tivo or a Replay-Thingy w/o a recursive cost and w/o a lifetime subscription.

Re:Won't be long until they merge

[jmoriarty]

My personal thoughts are it's the monthly charge that keeps this market from going anywhere (it's why I won't buy).

Honest question: Why? The subscription fee is for downloading the guide data only. Someone has to pay for the people, processing, systems, etc., to make that available. If it wasn't in a monthly subscription it would have to be factored into the purchase price of the boxes. This way seems to be a lot more accurate for the companies (Pay Per View), and more fair to the consumer (No $1,000 boxes to cover rapid changes in usage).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a DirecTiVO owner and love it. I don't want to pay for anything I don't have to, but this seems a valid service that costs money to make available, so requires a payment to use.

Fighting?

[Doomrat]

SonicBlue: U STOLE ARE TECHNOLOGEY!!!1!!! Tivo: FUK U!! SonicBlue: OMG WE CULD CONBINE ARE SKILLZ AND BE ElITE! Tivo: OMG!!!! YES!!11!!!!!!!!

Re:Question on licensing of technology

[victim]

This is exactly what I have. I have a Sony built DirecTV reciever with Tivo built in.

The challenge for Tivo and Replay is to ensure that the TV and set top builders have to license their technology. It can't cost more than $1million to develop the code for a DVR. (Well it could, but it shouldn't.) If Tivo wants more than $1M/year return on their investment they have to legally prevent the TV builders from making and selling their own DVR software.

If Tivo has well written patents they can use litigation, if they have shaky patents they can use the treat of litigation. If they have worthless patents they are out of luck. Maybe the reason to cancel the lawsuit is to avoid a legal precedent on which patents are valid? Maybe each company has amassed a body of prior art on the other's patents? Just guessing.

Re:Won't be long until they merge

[koreth]

FYI, you can hack a TiVo to be accessible from the net, but at present it's definitely a job for the technically inclined. (I've done it to both of my TiVos and it works great.) The network-enabled ReplayTV models are probably worth a look if remote access is high on your wish list.

TiVO doomed... rubbish

[rcs1000]

OK.

Lets look at the last financial statements for TiVo inc. Quarter to July 31, 2002.

Sales $23.9m, up about 6x. (Yep, c. 600%)
Gross profit $16.3m

Less R&D ($4.5m), Sales & Marketing ($5.6m & 3.4m), and General & Administrative ($1.1m).

Operating loss for the quarter, $1.1m, against $34.5m a year ago.

TiVo doomed? Do the math.

My favorite Tivo feature

[Pr3d4t0r]

The "Back 8 seconds" button.

You never realize how handy it is until it's not there. Also, I don't know how many times I wished I had just that button on my stereo: "Where was that accident? Speed trap, etc" again?

A message from Canada

[EulerX07]

Hello dear companies. Now that you're getting along, could I PLEASE be permitted to buy your products. Me and my fellow canucks would very much like to prevent the doom of your market by welcoming you with open arms into our stores and give you our money, while it's still worth something. Now I know that you've been ignoring us for the few last years but we're willing to forgive you and pay for your services. Thank you for your attention... Oh, btw, Canada is that small country just north of the USA, you should be able to find quite easily.