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Tivo and SonicBlue Settle Dispute
Shippy writes "According to this article at the Stereophile Guide to Home Theatre, Tivo and SonicBlue have
decided to dismiss all patent-infringement claims 'without prejudice' and instead focus their energies on energizing the DVR market. 'We believe our energies are better spent expanding the market for DVRs rather than fighting each other,' the former adversaries said in a joint statement. The article also discusses their plans for marketing and also how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."
competing companies working together?
prepare for meltdown in 3.....2....1....
IANAL
but if I read this right, this means that if they feel like suing each other over this in the future because they have a falling out, they are completely free to call in the lawyers and have at it.
Sort of like two mafioso movie types, each with a shot gun at the throat of the other. Backing off might be a smart move.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I agree with this totally...there's more than enough market share out there for both SonicBlue and Tivo. We need to educate people about PVRs, and the functionality that the media is trying to remove from them...not spend money on lawsuits like this.
I picture a running back (football for those less informed) charging down the field and a defender setting up to tackle him. Then BLAMO! the running back plasters the dude and keeps on going.
The defender gets up, dusts himself off and says, "You know, I think you're right. Maybe we should just let this go and concern ourselves more with the offence. K?"
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
The DVR market is hurting badly, and it won't be long until the two companies are forced to merge just to stay alive. Some markets can't handle competition (like the market paymybills.com exists in, it had to merge with a competitor just to stay afloat).
:-)
My personal thoughts are it's the monthly charge that keeps this market from going anywhere (it's why I won't buy). But none the less, these two companies are ultimately going to merge or end up playing so nice with each other they'll be borderline illegal in their cooperation. At that point, the MPAA and big media might just encourage the government to investigate them.
Or I could be entirely wrong
Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
If they are going to survive, it should be based on thier systems individual merits, not who has the deepest pocket book and/or best lawyer.
These companies have cranked out some very innovative products, for which they deserve much kudos and high praise. But between competition from the gatekeepers (cable and satellite TV companies), Japanese consumer electronics companies, and do-it-yourself PC-based solutions, they don't have much ground to stand on. Selling out to DirecTV or AT&T Cable while they still can is probably their best and safest bet.
From reading the article, it seems that both companies are getting pressure from other vendors who "are incorporating features into set-top boxes". Is this to say that these vendors are going at it alone? Why wouldn't they license the technology from one of these companies? Does this mean further diverging standards? It seems to me that Tivo could go to a DirecTV-like model by getting their technology licensed, subsidized and ultimately built-in to future hardware (I was recently suprised how many TV's have DirecTV built in). Am I missing something here??
...and focuses instead on furthering the technology?
Sounds like radio with pictures; it'll never fly.
Emacs: for people who just never know when to
I wouldn't really say that the DVR industry is doomed as such. When the cassette tape first came out, it was believed that it would be the "big killer" as they were inexpensive and you could copy them easily. Then the big hype was with CD's, then MP3 (not OGG :(), and now DVD's (or DVR's as the case may be). Embracing new technology is how these are overcome, and it's good to see Tivo and SonicBlue focusing on this.
how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed.
I wont buy a PVR right now, due to the monthly payment required. I already have too many monthly payments in my life - I dont need one more. And, I don't want to pay UBER stupid prices for a 'lifetime' subscription.
I want a PVR that will act just like a VCR - programmable, by channel and time. Too much to ask? Is there something out there that will do what I want, that isn't a DIY soloution?
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson
Everyone I know who owns a PVR (including me) says the same two things:
-1) I love it and will never, ever give it up.
-2) It's nearly impossible to explain why I feel this way to anyone who doesn't own a PVR themselves.
IMO, #2 is the principal difficulty for SonicBlue and Tivo.
-Cal
Because neither company can afford lawyers!
"...they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed."
Time Warner doesn't think it's doomed. They just launched the Explorer 8000 Digital Video Recorder here in Austin, TX.Warning! Keep Out of Eyes! Wash Out with Water! Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute!
The TIVO is still pretty much doomed.
sonic blue at least let's me set the unit's clock, while the TIVO requires that I let them do it.
until Tivo can be purchased and never allowed to dial home AND function properly as a Digital VCR (record at XX:XXpm for 1 hour call it foobar1) I and several others will never buy one.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
SonicBlue: U STOLE ARE TECHNOLOGEY!!!1!!! Tivo: FUK U!! SonicBlue: OMG WE CULD CONBINE ARE SKILLZ AND BE ElITE! Tivo: OMG!!!! YES!!11!!!!!!!!
we are spending money like mad, and here is good way to slow that down a bit.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
OK.
Lets look at the last financial statements for TiVo inc. Quarter to July 31, 2002.
Sales $23.9m, up about 6x. (Yep, c. 600%)
Gross profit $16.3m
Less R&D ($4.5m), Sales & Marketing ($5.6m & 3.4m), and General & Administrative ($1.1m).
Operating loss for the quarter, $1.1m, against $34.5m a year ago.
TiVo doomed? Do the math.
--- My dad's political betting
The article also discusses their plans for marketing and also how they plan to respond to criticisms that the DVR market is doomed." 'With luck and enough of a spin on it, perhaps we can pull enough wool over people's eyes that they dont realize that the DVR market is already dead... we're just hoping there are enough sheep in the world for all the wool we'll need for that feat.'
At least, that's my translation of it...
- Rob
WebMaster:
BinFeeds
XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but
TiVo works just fine without when a subscription runs out. You don't get any program info, and you have to manually setup record times, but it does work. Pausing live TV works just like before.
:( Well worth $12.95 a month.
I'm not sure it will work if you NEVER have the subscription, but you could always just pay for 1 month.
I went without an update/subcription for a month when my modem died.
(appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
The "Back 8 seconds" button.
You never realize how handy it is until it's not there. Also, I don't know how many times I wished I had just that button on my stereo: "Where was that accident? Speed trap, etc" again?
Last I heard, that's only true of the older units. The newer units say on the box that they require the service to operate, and the software enforces this policy by disabling even manual recording.
if it can't set its own time, it can't record shows by the timer. you might be able to record live tv, but that's about it (how can you tell it to record the Simpsons at 8pm, when it doesn't know what time it is currently?)
IANAL, but I play one on
Think of it as "time-shifting."
sulli
RTFJ.
go to panasonic and buy one of these... screw messing with some locked in junk that will not let you archive...
HDD storage and then you can write it out to a DVD-R. why would you buy a Tivo other than being a few hundred cheaper.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'm not big on TV, but my spousal overunit is and is currently doing the Tivo-ReplayTV pre-purchase research, and apparently the "lifetime" service fee is for the "lifetime" of the unit you purchase. If you get a new box, even from the same provider, you get to pony up that fee again.
It's the fees that'll kill them. Good technology, not the right marketing strategy for this stage of the game. Make it cheap until you get a solid, self-sustaining user base.
Uh... have you looked at either TiVo, Inc. or SonicBlue?
They're hardly "megacompanies" or megacorps.
Yes, this is precisely what they're going to do. Good for them. They thought of the idea first, implemented it (i.e. - they didn't just patent it and sit on their asses waiting for someone else to do it), and they expect to make a return on investment on it.
What's so horrible about that? It's called capitalism. I find it ironic that you'd call it communism.
Uh, my TiVo records a given channel start at X time and end at X time... It's under "Manual Record" or some similarly-named menu.
If you never let it dial in (mine uses my local network (DSL) connectoin), then all you've got is a basic VCR with no program knowledge. I have heard of a hack where you can set up your own server for it to dial into for program guides, but I don't follow the Tivo hacking market much...
-mrv
They do. Both Replay and TiVo buy their guide data from Tribune Media Services. TMS provides guide data to just about every program guide provider in existence.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
Exactly the type of behavior that makes the patent system (I feel) unfair. If I take a patent out on a idea I don't see that I should be allowed to prevent anyone else from ever using that idea - nor should I be able to set royalty rates or licence conditions to a level that accomplishes the same thing. If I have an idea that improves on another patented idea there should be a process that determines whether awarding me a 'mandatory licence' would be better for the consumer than allowing the original patent 'owner' to continue their monopoly... unrealistic I know...
It's not that I'm Anti-American - I'm Pro-Freedom
How about two wide receevers holding eahc other and tripping each other everyime the ball is thrown, in order to get more catches individually. But then they realize there's plenty of passing going on, stop interfering with eachother and more than double receptions!
I don't know why you think they're on opposite teams. It's not like sales in one directly correlate in losses for the other.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
oligopoly Pronunciation Key (l-gp-l, l-) n. pl. oligopolies
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.
Now watch what happens when they band together...
Yes, it can record by channel and time and do the live broadcast pausing, etc all without a subscription. What you'll be missing is updating TV Guide data, and easier subscriptions, as well as suggestions and freebies from Tivo itself. If all you want is a digital VCR with no frills and no subscriptions, go grab a Tivo .. It'll do that on its own without a subscription.
Hello dear companies. Now that you're getting along, could I PLEASE be permitted to buy your products. Me and my fellow canucks would very much like to prevent the doom of your market by welcoming you with open arms into our stores and give you our money, while it's still worth something. Now I know that you've been ignoring us for the few last years but we're willing to forgive you and pay for your services. Thank you for your attention... Oh, btw, Canada is that small country just north of the USA, you should be able to find quite easily.
Otherwise it is useless to me.. This is the main thing I like about Tivo .. I set my shows up and the Tivo knows when they are on, and if they get moved to a different day for a week like most programs do for one reason or another, it knows about it and adjusts accordingly. Manual isn't good enough for todays generation. I like it all automated. That's kinda the whole point behind Tivo...
Theoretically, yes, but I'm guessing that that is probably intentionally inconvenient to transfer. Just a guess, but...
For a Tivo with lifetime, you give the box to someone else. Then.. well.. you're done. Oh, you can call Tivo to tell them that the box is now owned by Bob Downthestreet, but you don't have to. The Tivo identifies itself on every connection by means of the unique serial number burned into a chip on the motherboard. The lifetime subscription is tied to that number.
I suspect it won't. While research is being diligently done, right now it's sort of a battle between "TiVO is cheaper, and my friend Scott has one" versus "Damnit, I didn't run Ethernet into the family room so that we could buy a box that uses a @$%^ing serial modem."
The Series 2 Tivo's can connect to an ethernet for their connectivity by means of a cheap $10 USB->Ethernet adapter. It's "unofficial" but it does indeed work. The main requirement is that your LAN has a DHCP server on it to hand the Tivo an address and a gateway, so that it can connect to the internet. Nearly all home router type boxes (like the Linksys, for example) do this job just fine. My Tivo calls home via my cable modem, for example.
Series 1 boxes have no USB connector, but ethernet cards can be purchased for them nonetheless, at www.9thtee.com.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
My TiVo generally has more accurate guide data than the DirecTV box. Don't ask me how they manage that, but it's true. Anyway, the TiVo is connected to the box with a serial cable. No IR necissary. You can also get the DirecTivo integrated with the sattelite box, and a similar model for AT&T digital cable. You just chose the wrong provider. Being TiVo friendly was the primary reason I chose DirecTV over dish network.
And if your cable company's set-top box isn't supported by the PVR, because the IR codes for your set-top box either aren't known or published, then you're screwed. This is why I'm stuck programming both my ReplayTV and my cable box whenever I want to tune a show for recording.
I complained to ReplayTV that my IR blaster didn't work with my cable box, and they tried to implement the IR command set for my cable box, but the implementation never worked right. So I eventually chucked the IR blaster cable.
Xerox, when it was first getting started, had the same problem with getting offices to install and pay for copy machines, so they came up with a scheme of installing machines that tracked how many copies were made for free, with a bill at the end of the month at some cheap rate per copy. Of course, once people got used to how convenient they were, they started using the copier like crazy, and the businesses quickly bought machines that they weren't billed for at the end of the month.
I wonder if the PVR folks can't have a free unit that is somehow metered, so that with a little bit of use people will soon realize that it's cheaper to buy the unit outright, and will do so.
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I do not account for the criminal terminology, as that is not my baliwick. In the civil domain, however, particular in patent litigation -- an area in which I practice, you have it exactly backwards.
A case dismissed with prejudice may not be renewed, permitting an absolute defense of claim or issue preclusion (res judicata and collateral estoppel). A case dismissed without prejudice may be renewed without permitting a prior adjudication defense, subject to statutes of limitation and other time bars that may get in the way.
Moreover, the voluntary dismissal might give rise to an inference that none of the alleged inferences create irreparable harm (otherwise how could they have dismissed?), possibly precluding certain forms of injunctive relief.
I use the pause feature all the time! I used to wait until a commercial break to grab a snack, but now I just pause. Sometimes (with live TV) I pause a little longer than neccesary so I'll have more leeway to FF past commercials.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.