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FTC Sues Six in Spam E-Mail Round-Up

TamMan2000 writes "This story over at Yahoo makes it look like the federal government is going after some spammers with gusto... Although they seem to be busting them for fraud via spam rather than just the fact that they spam, it is still good to see them going after them. Also interesting, it looks like one of the things they are nailing them for is the fraudulent 'remove me from your mailing list' that actually brings more spam."

139 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. Good by phreaknb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I am glad to see that the federal government is addressing spam. Now if they could make it illegal, that would be better.

    1. Re:Good by Dragon213 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It could never be made illegal...simply because it's a form of unwanted advertising. Ever take a trip on the highway and seen all the billboards? I don't like the way that the billboards cover up the country side. I think that billboards are a physical equivilent of email spam......see my point?

      --
      --CypherDragon
    2. Re:Good by chimpo13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And to comment what zillions are thinking, billboards don't cost me money. Spam does. But I like the idea of paying money everytime I see a billboard.

    3. Re:Good by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 3, Funny

      I almost don't need spam anymore. I can get my penis pills and magical diet pills (Trim Spa, Body Solutions) from the radio and Howard Stern's commercials these days. Now all they need is an ad with a guy speaking Chinese and giving a 1-800-555-1234 number as their contact address for more information and I could get rid of my e-mail address completely. Why isn't the government going against ALL fraud? Are you telling me penis pills actually work? Trim Spa magically makes you lose 100lbs while still being a fat ass eating whatever you want? Come on, where are the truth in advertising laws for not only spam, but radio these days??

    4. Re:Good by Ponty · · Score: 3, Funny

      There are no billboards in Alaska.

      And that's just not much of a point. Billboards are unsightly, but they're passive. You don't have to take specific action to avoid dealing with them. You don't have to delete them, and they don't take up any of your resources (unless they start making roads windier to allow for more billboard space.)

    5. Re:Good by dacarr · · Score: 2

      If they made it illegal, what good would it do for the id10ts in Nigeria, or South America? Remember, US law has no precedence in either of those locations.

      --
      This sig no verb.
    6. Re:Good by coryboehne · · Score: 2

      I think I speak for us all when I say "Yay!". That's it, nothing more insightful,interesting,or funny, just that and nothing more....

    7. Re:Good by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "It could never be made illegal...simply because it's a form of unwanted advertising. Ever take a trip on the highway and seen all the billboards? I don't like the way that the billboards cover up the country side. I think that billboards are a physical equivilent of email spam......see my point?"

      No, I don't see your point. As a matter of fact, I think your metaphor is heavily flawed. As posted elsewhere in this thread, "billboards are passive and don't cost you resources to see."

      As a matter of fact, Fax machine ads are more akin to e-mail SPAM than billboards. They've been outlawed too. Why? It costs people ink.

      Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to make laws against unsolicited mail as they did for fax machines. The main reason being that it's a lot harder to prove that any significant amount of computer resources were used. It's easy to prove that somebody cost you a sheet of paper, you can even provide a mathematically sound cost for that resource. But that's a lot harder to do with digital bits. You don't pay for bandwidth, the electricity cost is negligable, and your e-mail address could have been acquired anywhere.

      Worse yet, when somebody faxes you, you have an item on your phone bill that indicates where it came from. It's a lot harder to spoof a phone number than it is an e-mail address. (Isn't it irritating how fundamentally flawed the current e-mail system is today?)

      What's my point? It's simple: The reason that law hasn't been passed is that nobody has a clear idea how it can be fairly enforced. It's too easy to send e-mail that's virtually untrackable. Even if they're tracked down, it's hard to enforce, especially if it's done overseas. And, it's relatively easy to block. The ones that don't get blocked... well pooey, it cost you a few seconds to delete.

      I don't think the Gov't is going to get kicked into gear to deal with the SPAM until a corporate entity with thousands of comptuters claims it lost millions of dollars dealing with SPAM.

    8. Re:Good by rodgerd · · Score: 3, Funny

      No force of US law in South America? Now *there* speaks someone majestically unaware of history.

      It's only a matter of time before Venezuala joins the Axis of Evil if it keeps seeing off US backed coup attempts...

    9. Re:Good by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      And that's just not much of a point. Billboards are unsightly, but they're passive. You don't have to take specific action to avoid dealing with them.
      But, unlike spam, you don't have to pay out of your pocket to see (or to ignore) a billboard.

      If people were forced to pay for billboards, whether they want to look at them or not, they'd be outlawed in less than 34 nanoseconds flat.

    10. Re:Good by Isofarro · · Score: 2
      I think that billboards are a physical equivilent of email spam......see my point?


      No. The comparison only makes sense when the billboards are placed on the road directly in front of you, and you have to stop your can, get out, move the billboard to the side, get back in your car to continue driving only to repeat the exercise minutes later. You can swop you car for a bulldozer, which comes with its own road-furniture remover -- but then you lose the convenience of the car, especially when parallel parking.

      Since with spam, you have to wade through it and do something, otherwise you'll have an unusable inbox. The bull-dozer option is filtering
    11. Re:Good by Isofarro · · Score: 2
      Spam isn't just an email phenomonon, it's just an unregulated form of unsolicated mass advertisment.


      No. The presence of an inbox does _not_ give you the right to populate it with your garbage. You are basically saying that you are allowed to park your car in my garage because garages are for cars. No its my garage, and I say who can park there -- not you.

      Which part of the concept of private property eludes your comprehension?
    12. Re:Good by delong · · Score: 2

      It could never be made illegal...simply because it's a form of unwanted advertising. Ever take a trip on the highway and seen all the billboards? I don't like the way that the billboards cover up the country side. I think that billboards are a physical equivilent of email spam......see my point?

      Billboards are on private property in a public space. Billboard advertising is a 3rd party effect. Spamming an email address, which is strictly a private communication channel, is a direct effect. It's the difference between overhearing an ad playing on your neighbors' radio on his property, and someone stuffing flyers under your door. Someone stuffing flyers under your door is violating your privacy and property rights.

      Derek

    13. Re:Good by Sir+Tristam · · Score: 2
      Hey, take it easy on him. He probably makes his living out of sending spam, and he's got to try to justify it to us if he's ever going to be able to justify it to himself. Just don't remind him that he's a thief, and he's raising the costs at our ISPs for everybody. If 36% of the email traffic is now spam, doesn't that mean that probably about 10% of our provier's bill is due to spam?

      So, if a spammer wants somebody to respect them more, do they actually lie and say that they're a lawyer for the MPAA?

      Chris Beckenbach

    14. Re:Good by mbogosian · · Score: 2

      It could never be made illegal...simply because it's a form of unwanted advertising.

      This is somewhat correct, with the very real exception that SPAM results directly in the diminishing of the receiver's tangible monetary resources (in the form of bandwidth, disk space, etc.), similar to junk faxes (which are illegal).

      One might argue that a shocking or distracting billboard does the same by causing automobile accidents, but there's no law against exposing bad drivers (though there probably should be a law against licensing them in the first place, but that's another story altogether).

      However, I do applaud the government for taking this tactic. Practically speaking, most SPAM comes from a few sources. Demographically, they are mostly porn and fraud. If we eliminated the fraudulent SPAM, we'd be getting rid of a ton of it. One might suggest that sending adult advertisements to a child's e-mail address is not legal (as is selling a Penthouse to someone under 18 in some states), but that is a different battle.

  2. Go FTC by Telastyn · · Score: 5, Informative

    In other news the FTC reached a settlement with Miss Cleo (the companies that run her stuff rather) for decieving customers and generally being assholes.

    1. Re:Go FTC by fmaxwell · · Score: 2

      $1 billion gotten illegitimately?? Holy crap that's a lot of money. And no one is going to jail!!!

      No. They fall under the current administration's protective "big business" umbrella. If you or I stole a Sony Walkman from Circuit City, we'd probably end up in jail, but if a business tries to bilk people out of $1 billion, they get to keep half of it. Just look at the wrist-slap that the Bush administration gave Microsoft for monopolistic practices that destroyed competitors and cost consumers billions of dollars. Until we have a "regime change", this kind of thing is bound to continue.

  3. Finally. by tevenson · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's about time, I reckon. If get one more:
    "FREE VIAGRA SHIPPED FROM MEXICO"
    or
    "Re: You want to have HOT ANAL sex!!!!"
    email I may drop kick my computer across the room.

    What scares me is the people who don't mind this.

    1. Re:Finally. by Flyskippy1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As humans, we have an amazing ability to adapt.
      We find ourselves able to zone out and ignore almost anything after awhile. I'm sure that every /.er has grown acustomed to Spam as a fact of Internet Life.

      It's what we trade to have freedom. Of course, the Spammers have freedom too.

    2. Re:Finally. by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

      What's worse is that people not only put up with it; there are some who will defend it as a necessary annoyance in a free market.

    3. Re:Finally. by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
      "We find ourselves able to zone out and ignore almost anything after awhile. I'm sure that every /.er has grown acustomed to Spam as a fact of Internet Life."

      I think a better strategy here is to manage your e-mail addresses properly from the beginning. I get 2-3 spams per YEAR at my main, real e-mail address. (And it's always the same spam too... something about skin blemish removal.)

      When you properly use sneakemail, spamcop, an auxiluary spam e-mail account (the one you see attached to this post), proper spamproofing, and aliasing on your own domain name, and you do this all from the very beginning, you can prevent nearly 100% of spam, so no filters are needed.

  4. Get them any way you can. by trentfoley · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Although they seem to be busting them for fraud via spam rather than just the fact that they spam, it is still good to see them going after them.

    Remember, Capone was busted for tax evasion -- not for his worst crimes. Get 'em any way you can.

    1. Re:Get them any way you can. by WatertonMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      The Syphilis they gave him was going a bit far though, wasn't it?

    2. Re:Get them any way you can. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      Although they seem to be busting them for fraud via spam rather than just the fact that they spam, it is still good to see them going after them.
      The Syphilis they gave him was going a bit far though, wasn't it?
      There was no CIA during Al Capone's time.
    3. Re:Get them any way you can. by Teknogeek · · Score: 2

      That's what they WANT you to think!

      --
      I mod down anyone who uses M$ in their posts. I like to live on the edge.
  5. All that will happen is... by Malcolm+MacArthur · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... the spammers will move abroad, to countries where it is not illegal.

    How much would it cost to extradite Koreans and Chinese for spamming - thousands of them a year??

    1. Re:All that will happen is... by ctr2sprt · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Of course, if Korea and China can't control their problems, the spammers just won't get extradited, period. China is working very hard to regulate its Internet access, so it clearly has the ability to filter email easily; the fact that it's not doing so suggests it might deliberate.

      I don't know what possible benefit China would get from this; perhaps they hope to use spam as an excuse to regulate the Internet even more. "Spam here is terrible, we have to scan all emails to stop it."

    2. Re:All that will happen is... by Hamstaus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... the spammers will move abroad, to countries where it is not illegal.

      Give me a break... are you saying that it's absolutely worthless to pursue these people and have them shut down? Are you kidding? This is great news. If you were an American citizen that got a cease-and-desist order from the FTC, would you say to your wife/kids/boss/dentist/dog "Well, that's it, I'm gonna move to China. Life is better there."

      I doubt it. Some of the operations might have resources to re-locate there, but most spamming operations are small, run out of Joe Six-pack's house. Moving servers to foreign countries might work in the short term, but it's still a huge hassle and no guarantee, since you still operate out of the States/Canada/wherever.

      Go FTC!

      --
      I moderate "-1, Fool"
    3. Re:All that will happen is... by mickwd · · Score: 2

      "... the spammers will move abroad, to countries where it is not illegal."

      This seems to suggest that you think the people who actually send most of the spam are from the US.

      "How much would it cost to extradite Koreans and Chinese for spamming - thousands of them a year??"

      So why are you now blaming non-US-ians ?

      Isn't one of the main problems with spam that it uses up everyone's time and resources. So if much of the spam is sent from the US, via Korean/Chinese/whatever open relays, don't the Koreans/Chinese/whatever sys admins have a valid point that their time and resources are being used up by US-ians, too ?

      Yeah, they should do more to fix the problem. But if they write/e-mailed you in Korean/Chinese/whatever, how would you respond ? But many people expect them to respond to e-mails written in English.

      You're just lumping Koreans/Chinese/whatever all together as one big lump of people. Why shouldn't the Koreans/Chinese/whatever do the same with US-ians, and figure that if US-ians are abusing their computer systems, let US-ians suffer because of it, in the hope that eventually the US will do something to stop the problem AT ITS SOURCE.

    4. Re:All that will happen is... by djupedal · · Score: 2

      Spam is not legal in Korea.

    5. Re:All that will happen is... by El · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't it be easier to simply filter all email from China and Korea? I know __I__ don't normally correspond with people in those countries...

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    6. Re:All that will happen is... by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 2

      The answer to that problem is fairly simple: Block the networks sold to Chinese and Korean ISPs. It may seem harsh, but if the governments of those countries won't turn over suspected criminals, it may be the only choice. Kinda like a "Digital Embargo".

      You crapflood my networks, and I'll ask you nicely to disable the crapflooders. You refuse, and I'll just take care of it myself.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    7. Re:All that will happen is... by kesuki · · Score: 2

      Of course, if china makes spamming illegal, you end up in a slave labor camp, err JAIL making radios 14 hours a day. yeah, Let the spammers move over to countries that might decide they make good slave labor someday. Spam that seems to come from china, usually isn't from china, it's from open relays. The spammers are pulling the same stunts that any con-artist would, by trying to stay two setps ahead of law enforcments attempts to track them down. Do you see con-artists moving over to china to practice thier trade? no, you don't. China is sure to have some spammers in their midsts once technology has pervaded thier society, but at this point in time, america is the heartland of spam, no matter what country it seems to be coming from. Because it's easier to stay a step ahead of the law here, due to the constitutional rights that are oh so slowly slipping away. then of course there are the spam kings who don't send scams, but rather work on the principal of sheer volume to make money spamming. someone, somewhere is going to accidently click that refferal link when thier kids are pulling on thier arm as they try to drag it to the trash, if you can send a few million of them every day, you're gonna make good money, without needing to run a scam.

    8. Re:All that will happen is... by Sir+Tristam · · Score: 2
      Hmmmm... That sets one to thinking. What you basically seem to be stating is that the reason China allows (encourages?) open relays is that it presents more benefit than harm to them.

      So to make them want to take care of open relays, those open relays would have to be preceived by them as causing more harm than good. How can this be done? By using the open relays to do something that they don't want. I would suspect that if those open relays started being used to send messages promoting Falun Dafa or other ideas that PRC doesn't want to addresses in China, we'd start seeing China pay more attention to the relays.

      Of course, I'm just postulating this as a student of human responses. I'm not encouraging anybody to ever actually do this. This also doesn't address if there are any benefits that Chinese opposed to the PRC derive from the open relays, and if encouraging closing of the open relays would harm them.

      Chris Beckenbach

  6. spam by phaderphox · · Score: 2, Funny

    It isn't even good when it is from a can.

  7. It's about time. by Blimey85 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I know that there have been laws in place in various states/countries to help combat spam but until now, I hadn't heard of much in the way of enforcement. I think this will be very good in the long run in both stopping current spammers and possibly keeping others from ever getting into this activity.

    I especially like them going after people who have the fake "click here to be removed" which really means "click here to get a thousand times more spam". It's nice to see that one of the better laws is finally getting enforced. I always laugh when I hear about some of the crazy laws we have and how many we have that never get enforced.

    For example, in South Dakota it is legal to shoot Native Americans under certain conditions. There are a couple laws regarding this. One law states that if there are 5 Native Americans (the law uses the term Indian but I will refrain from that), on your property, you may shoot them. Another one that may be only applicable to the town of Spearfish is that if there are three Native Americans walking together, you may declare them a war party and shoot them. Another law says they have to be crossing a bridge to be a war party and shootable.

    So many crazy laws in this country. But back to the point, the anti-spam is a good law, in my opinion and it's nice they are finally going to enforce it.

    --
    How is it that one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole box to start a campfire?
    1. Re:It's about time. by jpt.d · · Score: 2

      Stupid laws - you try and do it, you WILL be charged with murder. Then those laws will be brought out in the open (and assumingly repealed)

      --
      What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
    2. Re:It's about time. by WeaponOfChoice · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's a funny old Irish law that still holds in one of the counties making it legal for an Irishman to kill a Scotsman provided the Scot is wearing a kilt at the time...

      My favourite is one from Aus (Newcastle) where beating a rug on the front lawn of your house is punishable by public flogging. I find the fact it's still [technically] law amusing but the thing that gets me chuckling is that there was a time when people beating rugs on their front lawns was such a problem they had to pass that law to make them stop... funny world.

      Now if you gave a spammer 1 lash for every spam you'd soon have, well, less spammers I guess...
      (Mr Spammer sir, I'd like you to meet my good friend here - the Lash'o'matic, which will be administering the first million of your 250 million lashes...)

      --


      It's not that I'm Anti-American - I'm Pro-Freedom
    3. Re:It's about time. by aridhol · · Score: 2
      I find the fact it's still [technically] law amusing but the thing that gets me chuckling is that there was a time when people beating rugs on their front lawns was such a problem they had to pass that law to make them stop... funny world.
      Well, if they weren't using cats to do it, it wouldn't be a problem.

      (If you don't get it, watch some Monty Python).

      --
      I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
    4. Re:It's about time. by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 2
      Another one that may be only applicable to the town of Spearfish is that if there are three Native Americans walking together, you may declare them a war party and shoot them.

      Great. So if you're a native in The Dakotas, don't start a spam company, or someone is likely to take advantage of wierd statutes. For the rest of us, however, I don't think that this is much of an issue. (and I'm not willing to shoot someone just for sending me some spam)
      ______

      In the meantime, I think that it's probably about time to start UDP'ing large chunks of the Asia Pacific netblocks. Those guys have shitloads of Spamvertized sites, and they're not going to do anything about it until it starts costing them traffic.

      Sending these spam-friendly ISPs complaints doesn't do any good. They just let the email pile up until their mailboxes fill up and start bouncing.

      It's not going to do us any good to wait for our local governments to come to an agreement with China about proescuting something that isn't even a crime over here. It's time for us the users of the internet to use our own marketing clout and technical expertise to lock down people who put hundreds of spams into our mailboxes and force us to spend time and cycles wading through this garbage.

      When these foreign ISPs start to realize that letting spammers onto their net makes their IPs useless, then they'll start getting pro-active about the problem.

      --
      OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
    5. Re:It's about time. by meringuoid · · Score: 2
      There's a funny old Irish law that still holds in one of the counties making it legal for an Irishman to kill a Scotsman provided the Scot is wearing a kilt at the time...

      I hear there's an old law in Hereford making it legal to shoot a Welshman provided he's inside the city walls on a Sunday. Am I the only one that thinks the SAS could take advantage of this for training purposes?

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    6. Re:It's about time. by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
      "For example, in South Dakota it is legal to shoot Native Americans under certain conditions."

      Also, in Chester (county Chechire) England, it is still legal to shoot, with a crossbow, any Welsh person, as long as you do it inside the city walls and after 11 PM.

    7. Re:It's about time. by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 2

      Dr Skeptic is wondering how you know all this.

      Have you seen the statutes yourself, and confirmed they are still current?

      Have you personally spoken to a lawyer who has confirmed the statements?

      Have you simply repeated these statements as true, after seeing them made by someone of unknown trustworthiness and knowledge?

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    8. Re:It's about time. by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2
      So many crazy laws in this country.

      I always wondered if it might be a good idea for laws to have constitutionally-required expirations, so that they have to be renewed by the legislature or they become no longer valid. That would take care of a lot of this leftover cruft, and might keep the legislature busy enough maintaining the existing laws to slow them down at coming up with new ways to screw over the general populace.

  8. FTC E-Mail To Spammers by Doomrat · · Score: 5, Funny

    From: antispam@ftc.gov
    To: evilspammer@somewhere.kr
    Subject: !!!!NEW!!! SPAM BUST!!

    Yes, YOU! We are busting you up big time for crimes against humanity. This is a free service to you from the FTC! A unique one time offer!

    To be acquitted and removed from our list, please go to this web site and leave your home address.

  9. Earn cash with your computer... by Duderstadt · · Score: 2, Informative
    Addresses left in chat rooms were certain to receive spam, they found. In one instance, an e-mail address posted in a chat room started to receive spam eight minutes after it was posted.

    Eight minutes?! Damn, that's what those ads for 'make money fast over the internet' are all about. All you have to do is hang around chat rooms and sell email addresses to spammers.

    Seriously, though, eight minutes? If it's a bot, I'm really impressed...

  10. Re: FTC Sues Six in Spam E-Mail Round-Up by Dunark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course the federal government is going after spammers. The Direct Marketing Assoc. just recently changed their position on spam because people were so sick of it that the DMA members' "legitimate" ads weren't getting through. I think the DMA screwed themselves, though: By preventing legislation against sending spam, they forced the spam victims to invent better ways of avoiding it at the receiving end. Those methods are now doing a wonderful job of killing the DMA's crap.

  11. Hang 'em high by MacAndrew · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's not widely known, but the FTC does excellent consumer protection work.

    I worked on a (for a court) regarding those TV ads that promised you could buy a Corvette at government auction for $10 or get a credit card regardless of your credit history. The FTC involvement was important because it took an incredible amout of work to nail the slimeoid who ran the schemes -- he just kept repackaging them. He finally ended up in jail, unusual for this sort of low-grade fraud, but a last resort after he scoffed at every other penalty.

    Sound like a spammer?

  12. My reaction? by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    it looks like one of the things they are nailing them for is the fraudulent 'remove me from your mailing list' that actually brings more spam.

    Yeeeaaahhh. Get those bastards and make 'em pay. This one in particular has caused an acquantance of mine (in her 90's) problems. She honestly and naively attempted to remove herself from many of these spammers and only ended up getting more and more frustrated before calling me to inform me that due to the porn spam she was getting, she was cancelling her email account unfortunately isolating her from an important communication medium to family members and friends scattered all over the country.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:My reaction? by skeedlelee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Make that two Yeeeaaahhh's!!!

      Your friend could also probably switch her email account, but that's beside the point.

      I will pretty much only ever click one of those things if I honestly remember signing up it, in which case it's rarely spam and usually from a company with a reputation to protect.

      On the other hand I have a few messages that I get routinely that I haven't quite figured out how to filter out. The entertaining thing about one... a bunch of crappy boiler plate quasi content and one link... a link that sez 'remove me,' talk about an email harvester if I ever saw one. They're selling something but give you no way to respond (different email every time), they aren't even trying to appear legit.

      This behavior makes it impossible for people like that spam-queen they had on WSJ the other day (yesterday?) to claim legitimacy. The 'Remove me' links don't work as a rule so claiming people can always opt out of their list is like saying you can avoid getting mugged by putting a big sign on your back, "please don't rob me, I'm carrying a lot of cash and now would be a bad time to lose it". If you're genuinely dealing with a well intentioned mugger it might help, but usually it only makes things worse.

  13. uce@ftc.gov reminder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    As the article points out, Uncle Sam wants your spam! Forward your unsolicited commercial email to uce@ftc.gov - it will go into a magic database that they can use as ammunition against spammers!

    1. Re:uce@ftc.gov reminder... by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 2

      Could I just give them the email account and password of my 'spam' account that gets tons of spam each day? I don't get anything meaningful there so I wouldn't mind if they went through all the e-mails on that list. I actually haven't checked it in months, it might not be there anymore, but I thought hotmail never actually deleted accounts.

    2. Re:uce@ftc.gov reminder... by flegged · · Score: 2

      I have uce@ftc.gov in my .forward.

      --

      "I think he was truly surprised at how little I cared about how big a market the Mac had" - Linus on Jobs
    3. Re:uce@ftc.gov reminder... by coyote-san · · Score: 2

      I have a mail folder boringly labeled "send to ftc," and every 6 hours a cron job forwards the contents of the folder to the FTC.

      This usually means that once a day I eyeball the contents of my "spam" folder to make sure there are no false positives, then move everything over to the other folder. Plus about a half-dozen messages that make it into my main mailbox.

      But something I have not yet gotten a good answer for is what format to use when sending the spam to the FTC. I want to preserve the original headers (to help determine when open relays are being abused, headers forged, etc.), but that's surprisingly hard to do right. And do I strip out the spamassassin headers, or leave them in?

      My current approach is to mime-encode the entire message (content-type: message/rfc822) and send it in a new envelope. I hope they know how to decode it, but Mozilla (annoyingly) doesn't. That makes it hard to verify your scripts before making them live.

      --
      For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  14. conditions met by octalgirl · · Score: 2

    Wired recently had an article about the FTC and spam.

    "The FTC can only legally pursue cases where there are clear instances of spam being used to perpetuate a scam or conduct fraudulent business activities.
    "The test is: Does the spam make a representation, an offer of some sort of product or service? Is that representation false? And would an average consumer believe that the representation was true?" Huseman explained. "If those conditions are met, the FTC can act."


    Just think, millions of spam messages get sent to uce@ ftc.gov (not easy to remember), yet only six people are on the job.

    1. Re:conditions met by ZoneGray · · Score: 2

      Weird. So the fact that nobody believes those penis enlargement advertisements makes them legal?

      I think, then, that what we have to do is reply to and purchse each and every one of them. When they don't work, we can get 'em busted. A deformed penis is a small price to pay for a spam-free mailbox. Especially for /. readers.

    2. Re:conditions met by Xerithane · · Score: 4, Funny

      Weird. So the fact that nobody believes those penis enlargement advertisements makes them legal?


      Yeah, no shit. I tried it. It works, but not like they say. I'm now a foot in diameter but still only 3" long.

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
  15. A good thing? by pongo000 · · Score: 2

    Do we really want Big Brother stepping in to regulate our network activities? As much as I believe spam is an abhorrent practice (I am a devotee of TMDA), I don't believe the government is acting in my best interest. How, exactly, do they determine what is spam and what is not? How soon will it be before the feds come knocking at your door after unleashing a flood of e-mails requesting your money back from an on-line vendor?

    The bad thing about all this is that the government is making the rules up as it goes along. Anybody who believes this is A Good Thing is deluding themselves. Every time cases like these are prosecuted successfully, a little freedom is taken away from the governed, and a little more power is granted to the governors.

    1. Re:A good thing? by murphj · · Score: 2, Insightful
      How, exactly, do they determine what is spam and what is not?
      I don't think they are going to act unless there is fraud. The laws proscribing fraud are pretty clear. I'm not sure which "freedom is taken away from the govered" - the freedom to cheat people?

      --
      SONY. Because caucasians are just too damn tall.
    2. Re:A good thing? by redfiche · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They're going after fraud perpetrated over email, not SPAM(tm) per se. They already prosecute similar types of fraud (see numerous other posts), and seem to be doing a good job. I for one think this is somewhere for Big Brother to stick his nose. I see no slippery slope where soon the FTC will be "knocking at my door."

      You seem a little paranoid.

      --

      Brevity is the soul of wit

      -- Polonius

    3. Re:A good thing? by EzInKy · · Score: 2

      ...they seem to be busting them for fraud via spam rather than just the fact that they spam...

      They are busting them with old rules, not new ones.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    4. Re:A good thing? by coyote-san · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As others have pointed out, this content would be illegal no matter how they distribute it. You can't take a magic pill to grow larger breasts, a bigger dick and get a new credit card despite your horrible credit history.

      But even setting that aside, I dare you to show me ANY precedence for your right to come into my house, raid my refrigerator, cook a meal on my stove, eat it on my plates, then leave the mess in the middle of my living room to poison my dog.

      Yet that's exactly what spammers are doing (in a rhetorical sense) when they use my domain name to send out their crap, or abuse an open mail relay, or use poorly designed forms on some web site to send their messages to others. They're deliberately and willfully using my resources and good reputation to their own benefit, without my consent and without any renumeration to me.

      Like you, I have very mixed feelings about government regulation of spam where the company has the balls to stand behind its own message. Let me blackball them myself. But I have no more qualms about the government cracking down on spammers who "borrow" my good name or resources than I do about the government cracking down on criminals who "borrow" my car, or "borrow" my credit card, etc.

      --
      For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  16. Firewall em by vandan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Download my list of spammers, which is updated every day or so:
    http://enthalpy.homelinux.org/spammers.txt
    Then dump it in /etc/firewall/blacklisted_nets and run a bash script:

    for I in `cat /etc/firewall/blacklisted_nets`
    do
    echo Blacklisting Spammer: $I/23
    iptables -A INPUT -s $I/23 -j REJECT
    done

    It puts a drag on the spammer's system as they try to send mail to you for 5 days or so before their mail server finally gives up and decides your domain is not reachable.

    Of course you need to have your own domain to do this, but with Linux and free Dyn-DNS services, this is not a problem. And it WORKS!

    1. Re:Firewall em by GigsVT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be careful taking these kinds of lists from random people and dropping them in your firewall.

      One list that was posted here on Slashdot about a year ago blacklisted several sites that I have noticed so far, including digitalblasphemy.com and avery.com (the people that make labels). A lot of these were /18 and /19 subnets that were in the blacklist. That is a pretty large chunk.

      Since vandan is using only /23, assumedly it is more finegrained, but it's standard practice these days to hand out only 30 IPs per T1 customer unless they ask for more, that's /27, which means each /23 entry is banning 16 of these sized blocks.

      I still use the list, so it wasn't too bad, but I'm considering pulling it back out of my ruleset now, or at least the larger blocks.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Firewall em by Parsec · · Score: 2

      Forgive my iptables/smtp interaction ignorance, but wouldn't we want to deny the packet instead of reject it? Better yet might be a rule or patch that allows the connection to come partially up before it disconnects, forcing the sending system into a timeout situation. Might not have a nice effect on those whose systems were compromised to send spam, but could cut down the success rate of the spammer.

      Imagine a distributed set of these systems, with spam poison sites feeding those addresses to spammers.

    3. Re:Firewall em by vandan · · Score: 2

      Fair call.
      We use the IP list here at work, and if an IP range causes us problems, I find about about it pretty fast and remove it from the list.
      As for whether you can trust that I'm telling the truth - I'll leave that up to each person.
      At least people can build their own list and use the above script anyway...

    4. Re:Firewall em by vandan · · Score: 2

      Remain calm dude.
      The link is simply a list of IP addresses.
      The only code I suggested people run I put in plain text in my original post.
      Geeeeeez...

  17. Some good out of my forwards by DeadSea · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can forward your spam to uce@ftc.gov. Some spammer took a random address from one of my domains to use as a return address. I was suddenly getting hundreds of bounced spam per hour. I redirected that address to uce@ftc.gov. Hopefully they are using some of those bounces in this roundup.

    1. Re:Some good out of my forwards by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some spammer took a random address from one
      of my domains to use as a return address. I was suddenly getting hundreds of bounced spam per hour


      I had the same thing happen to me.

      First of all I asked the site being promoted in the spam [one of the erotica.com group] to please stop forging addresses at my domain.

      Nothing changed -- not even an acknowledgement.

      So I started forwarding all the bounces to support@erotica.com and their domain contact address domadmin@aeroweb.com

      Nothing changed.

      Then I started also started forwarding the bounces to affiliates of erotica.com.

      Nothing changed

      Then I contacted the upstream provider and asked them to shut down the intermediary site (one of their clients) that was being directly referenced in the spam.

      Nothing changed, not even an acknowledgement.

      So their abuse address was added to the list of those receiving the bounces.

      Over a period of three days, nearly 9,000 bounce messages were received and forwarded to the parties involved.

      No doubt they were filtering these bounces -- but what else can you do in such a situation?

      The spammers don't care that they're screwing up someone's email system by forging return addresses and the upstream provider (pnap.net) is obviously also a blackhat in league with the devil.

      If people think it's annoying getting 30-60 spams a day, imagine what it's like getting 3,000 unwanted email bounces per day due to the sleazy activites of spammers!

    2. Re:Some good out of my forwards by herbierobinson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had some spammer start doing that to me and I filed a complaint with the local police department along with the contact info for their ISP. It stopped real fast.

      That kind of forgery was very illegal. If you can connect it with the web site, you can probably sue them for a lot of money. Given that you had to handle the bounces manually, you can probably claim damages of a buck or two for each message and sue as well.

      --
      An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
    3. Re:Some good out of my forwards by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 2

      Given that you had to handle the bounces manually, you can probably claim damages of a buck or two for each message and sue as well

      Oh no, they were too clever for that. I'm based in New Zealand so there's the thorny issue of lodging a cross-jurisdictional prosecution.

      I've noticed that these people are carefully choosing to use non-US-based domains in which to forge their reply addresses. They're also obviously aware that it's just not economically viable to prosecute from outside the USA.

      Now if there were just a few lawyers who were prepared to file such cases on a percentage basis, taking their cut from the court awarded damages, then I think they'd be awfully busy.

      Unfortunately I also suspect that these spammers have a very cleverly devised financial structure such that their main assets and wealth are protected from any such action. Even if the courts awarded a damaged party any sizeable sum, the chances of them actually receiving a dollar would be very slim.

  18. Hanging themselves... by person-0.9a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the Yahoo! story:
    Internet users can forward spam for FTC investigation to uce@ftc.gov

    How many spambots will harvest that address?
    How excellent a way is that for spammers to hang themselves?

    1. Re:Hanging themselves... by IBitOBear · · Score: 2

      And to keep them from harvesting out the .gov and .mil addresses, everyone who can should set up an email alias that does nothing but forward to uce@ftc.gov and post it liberally on IRC, unused but spider-accessable web pages, and blogs.

      Basically put up web pages that have a (graphical) "you better not send spam to these addresses" logo (so it isn't fraud itself 8-).

      It seems like the easiest way for ISPs and government agencies to spot the spammers would be to have a suite of these no-real-use addresses and then publicize them on no-real-use fora 8-)

      --
      Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
      --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  19. Alternative legislation by grimsweep · · Score: 5, Funny
    We may not be able to get agreement on legislation against spam, but there's other ways to nail some of the mass mailings.

    How about a law against ALL CAPS in e-mail? At the very least, we'd get rid of the more annoying stuff. Plus, what member of the registered voting population would vote against this? It could even weed out the unsavory elements of IRC.

    RedBetty: Hi, everyone!
    zerokool772: WHTA R U WEARNG??/?
    FTCBot: zerokool772, your use of the capslock key is unwarranted and without license. Cease and desist, or pay the consequences.
    zerokool772: WTF DO U THNK U R?
    *FTCBot has banned zerokool772 and has contacted the appropriate authorities.

    ...hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

    1. Re:Alternative legislation by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 2

      How about a law against ALL CAPS in e-mail?

      Are you kidding?

      What about all those PCs in Nigeria that appear to have had their caps-lock key glued down by law?

      How will those poor people earn a living facilitating the transfer of ill-gotten gains across international borders if their emails don't get through?

      Shame on you for oppressing the poor and disadvantaged. You must be part of the WTO eh? :-)

  20. The problem is... by Lordfly · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only way the FTC can go after spam is for fraud and other things already illegal. It's not illegal simply to advertise via email (yet, anyway). They're doing the best they can with the rules that they're allowed to govern in.

    At least they are one division of government that doesn't try to overstep its bounds :)

    josh

    --
    hookers and grits.
  21. Actually... by EvilFrog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Billboards actually have been outlawed. The only reason they're still around is because the ones that were already in place have been grandfathered.

    1. Re:Actually... by Moonshadow · · Score: 2

      It's a city-by-city thing, I'd guess.

      I live in Scottdale, AZ. There is a city ordinance preventing billboards within city limits. It's nice, actually. However, once you stray into Phoenix or Tempe, they are all over.

      I imagine the original poster lives in an area where they've been legislated away.

  22. On a related note, by bobdotorg · · Score: 5, Funny

    On a related note, Barbara Anthony, regional director for the FTC said, "In all fairness, it must be noted that my husband now has a permanently erect 47 inch penis, our mortgage rates are the lowest in decades, we earn $7,000 a week working at home, and we'll never buy a toner or ink cartridge ever again."

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  23. Wake up! by dnoyeb · · Score: 2

    OF course spam that comes from Korea and China originates in the US anyway. Those Asians just dont know how to lock their servers down, but they are certainly not getting money for it and if anything loosing due to the bandwidth. Imagine if your mail server all the sudden seemed to stop working for 30 minutes but was actually sending out 100,000s emails from America back too America. I'd be pissed.

    Remember. I never visit Korean or Chinese websites, so its not them stealing my email address...

    1. Re:Wake up! by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Informative
      Remember. I never visit Korean or Chinese websites, so its not them stealing my email address...

      Korean or Chinese spambots could visit your websites and get your email address that way.

    2. Re:Wake up! by dnoyeb · · Score: 2

      Are you saying the majority of your spam is in korean? is even half?

    3. Re:Wake up! by dnoyeb · · Score: 2

      They could...But do you think that is what is really gonig on?

    4. Re:Wake up! by jonadab · · Score: 2

      Either that, or Chinese and Korean spambots are harvesting my address
      from usenet summaries. Or both.

      A spammer can easily forge extra Received: headers to make it seem
      as if the message only passed through the originating server, but
      it's much harder (impossible?) to do the reverse, and make it appear
      as if the message originated someplace that it only passed through.
      I get metric tonnes of spam that _originates_ in southeast Asia.
      Most of it is written in character sets I can't read, which as far
      as I'm concerned is a good thing, because that makes it easier to
      tell apart from legitimate messages. I just wish it would all
      specify the character set in the Content-type: header, so I could
      filter _all_ the Chinese and Korean stuff into the spam folder.
      As it stands, about half of the foreign spam I get declares the
      charset, and the other half is harder to filter, because it either
      doesn't declare or uses a language-ambiguous charset (e.g., UTF8).

      I do also get spam written in English, some of which originates in
      Asia and some of which doesn't. But the really overwhelming deluge
      is the foreign stuff.

      And while we're on the subject of the FTC going after fraud... I
      sure wish they'd decide that forged headers are fraud and go after
      the perpetrators who do that. Spam would be a whole lot easier to
      filter if the data in the From field and/or Return-Path had to
      contain the actual originating domain.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    5. Re:Wake up! by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2

      I guess that's why my Yahoo! mailbox fills up with spam written in asian character sets? While I agree that there is much spam relayed off their servers, a lot of it's being generated there too.

    6. Re:Wake up! by Stonehand · · Score: 2

      At least until I started some /very/ aggressive filtering, in excess of 90% of the (upwards of 15/day... my e-mail address has been public for some 8.5 years straight) spam I got was in Korean, sent from Korean servers, advertising for Korean servers. Much of the rest was in Chinese, relayed from either Chinese or Taiwanese servers advertising Chinese or Taiwanese URLs. For what it's worth, I don't read either language. Oh, and there's also an Austrian porn magazine that kept sending me messages in German, and I've gotten the occasional Spanish spam from Argentina, Mexico or Spain.

      I used to get /very/ little spam that's actually in English, and that's mostly Nigerian bank scams. Of course, now practically all the spam (most of it now bounces, so it's far less) that gets through to me is in English, since I do a lot of filtering aimed specifically at Korean and other non-English e-mail. I filter on Received: lines, Subjects:, From:, X-Mailer: ...

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    7. Re:Wake up! by dnoyeb · · Score: 2

      You are wrong. If the mail server is open all you have to do is point Outlook Express at it, and the mail server will be listed as the ORIGINATION point. You can fake your own address, but the server will typically put its true address on it.

      Its easy to find a forged header. The IP addresses can not be forged but the names can be. So if the original servers name does not match its IP address, then its forged. I only consider email spam if this is the case. and I report it to the email server owner. Else I just go at the originator of the email.

  24. Re:ISP Clause to Sue Spammers by Shamanin · · Score: 2

    That would work fine if they were to spam alot of different people... the problem is they only seem to spam ME many times! ... that will be $1 please.

    --
    come on fhqwhgads
  25. Hmm reported at yahoo by qurk · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Hmm Yahoo reporting about the government cracking down on spam. Isn't that like getting pulled over for a shorty brake light then admitting yes I kill the asshole, he deserved it, heres the gun I used.

    Just seems a little strange considering Yahoo sells it's subscribers off to spammers after promising "Yahoo for life!" and offering a spam filter (ya right) :) Also for 2 years every email I sent to my friends had a little advertisement for Yahoo which could be considered spam then they decided to charge for the service they promised free.

    Yahoo? My ass!!!!

  26. shoulda been by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

    FTC Sues Six in Spam Suit Soiree.

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  27. Why not a political issue? by mlknowle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm really suprised that spam-busting hasn't become a bigger political issue. There realyl isn't a large pro-spam lobby, and any senator/rep who campaigned against spam ("I'm going to ban spam! Vote for me") would pick up not only a lot of techie votes, but votes from the general population as well - there isn't really a pro-spam segment of the population, either.

    Issues like this, which a few people (the spammers) act against almost everyone else's intrests are ripe for conventional political action... why hasn't it happened yet? Granted, there are examples at the state level, and they have run into legal hurdles, but I'm really suprised we havn't seen federal legislation yet - it seems like an easy way to pick up votes.

    1. Re:Why not a political issue? by branchstudios · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is with plausible deniability. If the spammer can claim that he "believed" the list of addresses he purchased & spammed were legitimately gathered, and if he's selling a real product (be it herbal viagra, porn, or bad real estate tips), then there isn't much accountability.
      It's sort of like romantic comedies. They should be banned, but there just isn't the legal grounds.

    2. Re:Why not a political issue? by Steve+B · · Score: 2
      The problem is with plausible deniability. If the spammer can claim that he "believed" the list of addresses he purchased & spammed were legitimately gathered, and if he's selling a real product (be it herbal viagra, porn, or bad real estate tips), then there isn't much accountability.

      Nonsense. If some clown tries to defend himself from a fraud charge by claiming that he really believed his snake oil can cure cancer, he's going to get laughed out of court and into the clink. A claim to really believe that 5 million people "opted in" to recieve your junk has about the same level of plausibility.

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  28. Not so funny laws by coyote-san · · Score: 2

    Laws like that are almost inevitably racism or similar bigotry masked by a seemingly innocent law.

    To give a contemporary example with extremely offensive (and inaccurate) stereotypes, consider a hypothetical 1950s law prohibiting the eating of fried chicken and watermelon on the front porch.

    Do you think the authors were really dealing with a problem of greasy chicken bones and slippery watermelon rinds on the nearby sidewalks?

    Or do you think the law might be a not-so-subtle way of keeping certain people out of sight?

    I have no idea which group beat their rugs on the front lawn, and which group found it a convenient way to "put them in their place," but I would lay long odds against the law actually dealing with an excess of public carpet floggings.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
    1. Re:Not so funny laws by mesocyclone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the more interesting examples of this sort of bigotry was the motive behind the creation of universal publicly funded education in the United States.

      This happened as large numbers of Irish came to the country, and was a result of anti-Catholic bigotry. The purpose was to undercut the Catholic school system. The result was the pathetic school system we now have.

      --

      The only good weather is bad weather.

    2. Re:Not so funny laws by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      To give a contemporary example with extremely offensive (and inaccurate) stereotypes, consider a hypothetical 1950s law prohibiting the eating of fried chicken and watermelon on the front porch.
      Do you think the authors were really dealing with a problem of greasy chicken bones and slippery watermelon rinds on the nearby sidewalks?
      Or do you think the law might be a not-so-subtle way of keeping certain people out of sight?
      This was done as recently as 1985 in the town I used to live then. Orthodox jews were offended at people sunbathing in a city park. They went whining to the mayor (the same guy who, when he was minister of justice 15 years before, declared martial law and suspended civil liberties, then had the army jail some 400 political opponents), arguing that the sunbathing people made the value of their houses drop.

      The city promptly outlawed the wearing of bathing suits, under penalty of three months in jail.

      Luckily, the law was overturned several months later, well past the bathing suit season, except for Santa Claus, who showed up on the cover of the local newspaper in a red and white bathing suit, right in the middle of the famous park that triggered the whole thing...

    3. Re:Not so funny laws by Carmody · · Score: 2

      The result was the pathetic school system we now have.

      That pathetic public school system that gave us many of our greatest Presidents including Lincoln, more than half of our CEOs, our greatest inventors including Edison, and what used to be one of the highest rates of literacy in the world?

      Our present day school system is not pathetic because it is public - the countries whose students are kicking ours' asses all have strong public school systems. The reasons for our present day school system's problems is not really simple enough to put into a pithy slashdot response.

      But your post saying that the idea of universal publically funded education resulted on a pathetic system is completely ignorant. You must have gone to a private school to be that naive about history.

      --
      God is real unless declared integer
    4. Re:Not so funny laws by FuzzyBad-Mofo · · Score: 2

      Apropos; supposedly the original Marijuana laws in the US were drafted for two reasons: a) to employ law enforcement after the repeal of Prohibition, and b) an attempt to slow the immigration from Mexico

    5. Re:Not so funny laws by mesocyclone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The major factor causing our public school system to be so shoddy is the fact that it is public and without adequate competition (although that is starting to change). This has led to some of the highest per-pupil spending in the world, with educational results some of the worst in the world.

      The current system didn't give us Lincoln or Edison. That was the past system, before the teachers unions became entrenched, the "Schools of Education" became the authority on how to teach, and the school districts too big to be responsive.

      Oh, and the countries that were kicking our butt also have strong private school systems and provide government funding to private schools.

      The universal publically funded education system really did result in our pathetic system. It took quite a while for it to degenerate to the level it did, but the near monopoly on education by publc systems led to the natural result of a government monopoly - disaster.

      As to your supposition. I was educated in public schools and my mother was a public school teacher. When my daughter was born, my mother said that she only had one firm request of us - that her first grandchild not attend public school! The request was honored.

      --

      The only good weather is bad weather.

  29. We all need to adopt... by EzInKy · · Score: 2

    this site's spam proofreading policy.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  30. Re:i want strong spam laws by El · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Punishing the company advertising is problematic. Let's say I want to put one of my competitor's out of business... what's to stop me from hiring someone to flood the internet with ads in their name?

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  31. Long time friend just got scammed by t0qer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Next door to my friends grandparents lived the bo family. Kim Bo was the oldest son, sorta suffered from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and had lived in his parents house well into his 40's.

    Nice enough guy, when we were teens he let us put a bunch of carp in his nasty green algea swimming pool. We spent the summer getting high, learning guitar rifts, and fishing for carp in our backyard fishing hole.

    Well, eventually, his dad, the glue that was holding it all together died so his brothers and sisters wanted to sell the house and divide up the inheretance. Kim took his 150k share, bought a van, and spent the next 2 years living in his van, driving around playing music and doing odd jobs. It's not like he couldn't have gone and gotten a place, but at 40 this was what he decided to do with his life..

    One day he got an e-mail "NIGERIAN OFFICIAL NEEDS HELP IN FUNDS TRANSFERS" or some shit like that. I saw him in person one day and he asked me if it was a scam. From all the stuff on slash I had read I knew it was.. But the promises in the e-mails were just too good for him to pass up.

    The scammers had him convert everything to a cashiers check, then had him fly to amsterdam in person to deliver the check. He flew halfway across the world thinking there was going to be some big payoff for helping these people..

    3 months later he hasn't seen a dime or heard from the people. He got screwed out of 150k in just one moment of handing over a check..

    I know most smart people wouldn't fall for this, their "SCAM ALERT" alarm would go off in their heads. The sad thing is these people prey on people not of sound mind, the elderly, the lonely. To say, "Oh they should have known better" just doesn't fit because the MO of these scammers takes them directly to these types of people.

    Kim Bo is doin alright. He had to sell his bass guitar, which he loved dearly and some other music stuff. He's doing odd jobs to keep gas in the van and food in his belly but at his age in his mental condition the outlook isn't going to be so bright in another 10 years.

    Before someone suggest he goes to the FBI, well he's done that already, but the FBI told him there's not much they can do. Kinda sucks we got them goin on these wild Osama Bin Laden goose chases because the frequency of these scams seem to be increasing.

    I hope the FTC nails these fuckers to the wall. Hopefully they'll be in the same cell as nasty nate and really get what they deserve :)

  32. spam not dead?? by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

    I thought we had killed
    spam dead by writing haiku
    I guess I was wrong.

  33. All fucking right! by NineNine · · Score: 2

    Yes! Spammers are being arrested now! And maybe tomorrow, they'll start enforcing laws about pirated music and start arresting some (more) P2P users. And maybe after that, they'll start enforcing obscenity laws. Great, the Fed is now cracking down on the Net!

    Ya' know with all of the bullshit floating around here about how Microsoft is "killing" the Net, them having a dominant browser is *nothing* compared to the Fed watching over your shoulder. For as bad spam was, at least the Net used to be free...

  34. Re:But what about Jack Booted Thugs(tm)? by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to tell you that sometimes (like this weekend when I received neary 9,000 bounced spam messages after a spammer used various email address at the domain I adminster in the "from" field of their emailings) I feel like becoming a hitman for hire.

    Let's see...

    I'd put up a website where you could send me your most despised spam and a $5 donation.

    Once any given spammer accounted for $25K worth of donations, I'd put on my steel-capped boots and go pay them a visit.

    A little basic "attitude readjustment" (courtesy of the said boots and the odd length of lead pipe) would provide significant encouragement for them to mend their spamming ways.

    Photos of the repentant spammer (or what's left of them) would then be posted on the website as a warning to other spammers who might consider bothering Net users with their crap.

    Now is there anyone who'd use such a valuable Net-community service I wonder? :-)

  35. Remove me by coyote-san · · Score: 4, Informative

    IIRC, the "remove me" line is not required by any federal law. (Some states may require it.)

    However, the spammers are cutting their own throat with it. Citing S.1816 (or whatever) as proof that the message "cannot be considered spam" is a lie. There is no, and has never been, any law of the United States passed by the Senate alone.

    That's somewhat abstract - although it's still a criminal act in some states to claim something is the law when you know it is not. But the promise to remove the person's email address from future mailings is a very specific claim. This means that the spam is asking for something of indeterminant but real value (a valid email address which can be sold to other spammers) in exchange for a specific promise you have no intention of keeping. That's fraud, and I wouldn't mind seeing every spammer who makes that claim get hit with a warning letter followed by a stiff penalty.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  36. My favorite Spam... by BTWR · · Score: 2
    Are the ones where it has a REMOVE link, followed by "Acorrding to US Congress Bill IX, title XIV, statute bi, Spam is legal as long as it has a remove link."

    I can almost guarentee such a title does not exist...

    1. Re:My favorite Spam... by Sir+Tristam · · Score: 2
      Oh, you mean like this (off a real live spam):
      Under Bill(s) 1618 TITLE III by the 105 US Congress, per Section 301, Paragraph(a)(2)of S. 1618, a letter cannot be considered Spam if the sender includes contact information and a method of "removal".
      Too bad for them that it was a Senate bill (thus the 'S. 1618'; House bills would be 'H.B. 1618') that died in committee. Basically means that two senators proposed the law to pay back their campaign supporters, but not enough other senators had received contributions from the spammers to convince them to even bring it to a vote. Passed by Congress? Not even passed by a committee in one of the houses. Or signed by the President.

      Chris Beckenbach

  37. I'm glad it isn't by FreeUser · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm really suprised that spam-busting hasn't become a bigger political issue. There realyl isn't a large pro-spam lobby, and any senator/rep who campaigned against spam ("I'm going to ban spam! Vote for me") would pick up not only a lot of techie votes, but votes from the general population as well - there isn't really a pro-spam segment of the population, either.

    While I frequently take issue with the libertarian knee-jerk reaction against government involvement in just about any area, no matter how constructive it might be, in this particular case, much as I hate and loathe SPAM, I come down firmly on the libertarian side.

    With Spam Assassin and other filtering packages we have the technology to take care of SPAM ourselves. We do not need the government passing new laws regulating how people communicate (even sleazeballs like Spammers), we can and should dump those people in the bit bucket ourselves, with our own software.

    The anti-fraud laws are generally sufficient ... the only additional legislation I would favor would be the ability for user's to sue for some amount of money (say, $500.00) for misuse of their system resources, but even that is a can of worms likely to be best left unopened (consider if someone sent SPAM out in your name, purporting to represent your company, and 10,000,000 people sued you for $500.00 for something you didn't do).

    We have the means, and the tools, to deal with these lowlifes ourselves. Let the FTC chase down those committing fraud, and let us filter out the rest ourselves.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:I'm glad it isn't by Steve+B · · Score: 2
      I come down firmly on the libertarian side.

      I'm glad you agree with us that the suppression of theft in general, and theft of bandwidth in particular, is one of the (few) proper functions of government.

      With Spam Assassin and other filtering packages we have the technology to take care of SPAM ourselves.

      With door locks and handguns we have the technology to take care of burglars ourselves. That's no reason why it shouldn't be illegal.

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  38. I say again... by slykens · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The only way to stop spam is to make it far more costly to spam than what one makes from doing it. This includes bringing action against the companies advertised in spam as well. Once they find out it costs a lot more to be sued for spamming than they make from doing it they will stop.

    On a side note, why aren't ISPs taking a more proactive approach in stopping spam? I remember here a while ago that people were bitching because Verizon blocked all tcp port 25 except to their servers. This should help dramatically in stopping spam as Verizon can then detect it at their server. People here cried about it. If you want to use your SMTP server at work then use a VPN. It is unfortunate but there has to be tighter controls to stop spam at the ISP it originates from.

  39. Oops... I forgot to say... it's streaming MP3... by Cheese+Cracker · · Score: 2

    Enjoy the spam. :)

    (sorry for the double post... I forgot to switch on cookies...)

  40. what the internet is about by A+Vengrow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wait a minute people, I get spam as much as the next person (about 30-40 emails per day) and yes it is annoying. but I have gotten used to it. I don't think that it should be legistlated, the government already has enough trouble attempting to control the internet. the less legistlation we have regarding the internet the better. after all, how is spam any different form the advertisments via snail mail telling me that I could have won 10 million dollars. what would you do with that type of spam? Face it, as much as I hate it, spam is here to stay.

    1. Re:what the internet is about by reactor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The difference is that it costs companies a significant amount of money to send out a large amount of advertiements via U.S. mail. It is relatively cheap to hook up a computer and send out thousands of spam messages a day through a dial-up connection.

      Additionally, there is far more oversight over people who advertise with Federal mail. For instance, requesting that you be removed from third-class mailing lists generally works. A company doesn't want to waste money sending advertisments to someone who is so against them that they will take the time to request they not be contacted. Generally a physical address is valid and not a "spam catcher". Note how most bulk mailings are addressed " Or Current Resident", so the physical spammers don't really benifit from discovering an address is "valid".

      Internet spammers are always up to all sorts of dirty tricks, such as adding addresses to mailing lists when the receive a request to remove the address.

  41. sued six junk e-mailers? - should be in jail by Skapare · · Score: 2
    The Federal Trade Commission said on Wednesday that it had sued six junk e-mailers who bombarded Internet users with illegal pyramid schemes, fraudulent loans and e-mail filters that actually attracted more "spam."

    Excuse me? These are fraud (a felony) cases! They should be arresting the spammers and putting them in jail for at least 24 hours. The spammers should be facing criminal charges, not civil remedies.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  42. Billboards by Jetson · · Score: 2
    It could never be made illegal...simply because it's a form of unwanted advertising. Ever take a trip on the highway and seen all the billboards?

    Ever visit Hawaii? They have a state law that limits visible signs. On the highway this means the only large signs you see are directional signs erected by the Department of Highways. Advertising on the highways is essentially limited to iconic symbols on official tourism signs.

    Off-highway limits are less strict but still significant. Corporate identity signs are limited in size and location to prevent "Times Square Syndrome". It's really quite refreshing to drive through a city or town and not see "golden arches" towering above the fast-food district. It can be pretty difficult to tell a high-rise apartment building from a hotel unless you know the address or look for a very small corporate sign over the lobby entrance.

  43. The FTC only has jurisdiction under the FTC Act by werdna · · Score: 2

    Although they seem to be busting them for fraud via spam rather than just the fact that they spam,

    This is unsurprising, because the FTC Act only governs conduct that constitutes "deceptive and unfair trade practices."

  44. Here's an Idea by hackwrench · · Score: 2, Funny

    Everytime you get an unsolicited e-mail that has an unsubscribe option, unsubscribe webmaster@ftc.gov... also use in a message on a board known to be freqented by spambots. That should put an end to the stupidest of spammers, at least.

  45. You have to see this quote from the FTC. LOL! by SPYvSPY · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I'm no psychic but I can foresee this: If you make deceptive claims, there is an FTC action in your future," said Howard Beales, director of the FTC's consumer protection bureau.

    Priceless.

  46. Opt out gets more spam by phorm · · Score: 2

    Also interesting, it looks like one of the things they are nailing them for is the fraudulent 'remove me from your mailing list' that actually brings more spam

    I fell for this a few times, basically by hitting that link you notify el-spammer that your email is valid, giving him/her/it the opportunity to add you to a list of "verified" people to bombard to spam. This is REALLY one of the slimiest of the slimy tactics.
    I don't suppose this court decision would force spammers to think about changing the "remove me" link to "Yeah, spam my ass like there's no tomorrow", since that's what it really does

    1. Re:Opt out gets more spam by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 2

      What I've taken to doing is signing up spammers to other spammers single-opt-in mailing lists.

      Of course you don't sign up the email address they give you in the email header -- that's almost always forged so you could be penalising an innocent party. You have to go to the website being promoted (if there is one) and have a hunt around for an email address.

      If there isn't one on the site (check the HTML code for embedded addresses for formmail scripts) then see what you can pick out of the domain name registration info.

      I'm building up a great list of spammers and their single-opt-in lists that I now unleash on anyone stupid enough to place one of my addresses on their own opt-out list.

      Let those who live by the spam, die by the spam!

    2. Re:Opt out gets more spam by herbierobinson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What I do with those remove links is traceroute them to find the level one ISP and then add some e-mail addresses from their level 1 (like the NOC address from ARIN). Some of the spammers are undoubtedly clever enough to filter those out, but I'll bet most of them are too stupid. I started doing this a few weeks ago and I've been seeing a lot less spam lately....

      --
      An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
  47. The Tune-Out Plague bites back by IBitOBear · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I was in the viedo-rental-sore with my roomate.
    He says "That looks interesting" and points to a shelf.
    I say "What? this?" picking up rather lame DVD.
    "Not that... that!" he says, still pointing but stepping closer.
    I pick up the cruddy DVD that was next to the first.
    "No! This!" he says...

    After several dense itterations I realize that he is talking about the rectanngular advertisement that is clipped to the shelf between two rows of DVDs. He is actually touching the sign by this point, and getting kind of upset.

    It seems that I have cultured a blind spot for full-color rectangular advertisements immediately above or below anthing I feel is "content". It is so pervasive in my mental state that meat-world advertisements have begun getting the same treatment.

    The comercialization of the internet has actually rendered me blind.

    Square insets are next, and soon I wont even be able to read a text book any more.

    Someone should do a study.

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
  48. Not quite. by PhxBlue · · Score: 2

    For as bad spam was, at least the Net used to be free...

    It used to also be restricted almost exclusively to universities and government institutions. A dirt road doesn't need lane dividers and yield signs; a highway filled with ten gazillion yahoos does.

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  49. Re:But what about Jack Booted Thugs(tm)? by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 2

    It's unfortunate that law enforcement has a monopoly on law enforcement

    Hey, according to the FTC, spamming per se isn't against the law anyway.

    We're not talking about competing with the police, we're talking about competing with Dr Phil -- a little analysis and a whole lot of attitude adjustment :-)

    Is it anyone's fault if they have a little "accident" while you're chatting with them? :-)

  50. The FTC can get Laura Betterly next by guacamolefoo · · Score: 2

    Slashing back to yesterday, the FTC can maybe set their sights on the Spam Queen featured on the fricking front page of the Wall Street Journal yesterday.

  51. You cannot be more wrong by DiveX · · Score: 4, Informative

    The courts have long support that saying whatever you want, whenever you want, to whomever you want is protected speech. Commercial speech does not have to be unrestricted speech. Take the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 for instance. That federal law (47 USC 227) outlaws and regulates several components of commercial speech. Making a prerecorded solicitation to a residential line, without a prior business relationship, is outlawed.

    Believe me, I won a $1500 judgement (plus court costs) against a company that made one single, prerecorded call to my home last may. I settled for a $1000 check cut by the company's insurance. Unsolicited commercial faxes sent to any fax machine, business or residential, are prohibited unless you have a prior business relationship with the company. Live (operator) solicitation calls are not prohibited outright (exception: you are on an official state DNC list) on the first occurrence. Upon your request, they must add you on their list and maintain that request for 10 years. They must also send you, again on your request, a written copy of their policy regarding the maintenance of their company's DNC list. This is a matter of federal law. If you get 2 or more calls in violation of this request in 12 months, (I know, it *is* absurd that you have to get 2 violations in 12 months [which means they can call you every 53 weeks with no repercussions], but that is the way the law is written.), then you may sue in courts for statutory damages of $500 for [b]each[/b] violation and demand treble damage of triple the amount. My suit was for the $500 violation and then the treble damages.

    The law was created to prevent the abuse of privacy and the inalienable right to b simple left alone. This law has ultimately been upheld in every major case to date (exception: the cousin of Rush Limbaugh [a federal judge] prevents its use in his district, but it is currently on appeal). The best part of this law is the private right of action that this law creates. Any spam bill passed must contain this portion or it will ultimately be a dead hand law. The government does not have the resources to attack this problem, so the rights of collecting damages has been given to the people.

    To date I have received $1800 in settlement due to a single prerecord from 3 different companies. I have a case in December against a local junk faxer and fully expect a $1500 judgement (plus court costs). Do a google search for just the term 'junk fax' and get your eyes opened.

    Some try to (erroneously) argue that the government has better things to do than make laws like this. The government does not have to make progress on every front just to make progress on any front. It is not the mere unwanted advertising, it is the fraudulent method and often illegal or illicit methods used to push it. I for one would not have a big problem with the law legitimize commercial email if it set the requirements regarding it such as a simple field that would thus allow people to choose on their own if they wish to receive it. If something as simple as '[ADV]' were required to be added to the subject line and headers could not be forged, then the problem as it is known would die. People can set a single, simple filter to block it if they do not wish,a nd that would be the end of it. Those that wish to get it will retain that right.

    You thinking billboards equals spam misses the point [b]entirely[/b]. It does detract from the natural view, however those billboards are on private property using private resources that does not directly cost the consumer anything. What about people placing ads on your windshield or through your open window? One isn't bad, but would you mind of I stuffed several hundred into your car window? That is my 'right' is it not? Obviously you have not been shafted by a 'joe job' where a spammer uses your address as their 'reply-to' or 'remove' address causing you to get hundreds or thousands of bounce messages or angry threats each hour for several days. Try actually doing some research next time.

    To really provide teeth to the bill, the consumer must be allowed to enforce it by collecting damages on their own.

    --
    Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
  52. Address by SeanWithoutPants · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Any username*@(my domain).com will go to one mailbox of mine, but still retain the unique user name. Now, whenever I sign up for things that require an email address, I'll add some initials to the beginning of the user name. (For example, phsean@(a domain).com - PH referring to Pizza Hut) Next I'll stick that address on a paper with other names for future reference.

    Now, if somebody spams me through an "initial email" I'll know who sold my name. I'll then follow up teh spam with a nice letter to the company stating why I will no longer do business with them. Seems like a simple way to see just how reliable those privacy policies are. :)

    Note: Pizza Hut hasn't ever spammed me, twas just an example.

  53. Spam is theft, period. by dwheeler · · Score: 2
    Hmpf. Spam is theft, period. See my article at http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/stopspam.html.

    What this shows is that if laws were passed that made spam illegal, we'd get a lot less spam. You don't have to enforce every spam case to make an effect; just putting a few spammers in jail or fining them will change the behavior of many others. If not illegal (the best solution), at least require all spam to be marked so that it can be easily filtered. And include all spam, not just commercial spam.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
    1. Re:Spam is theft, period. by Steve+B · · Score: 2
      You don't have to enforce every spam case to make an effect; just putting a few spammers in jail or fining them will change the behavior of many others.

      Another advantage would be to get spammers' nuisance lawsuits easily dismissed (unless the judge is particularly dense), on the grounds that there is no legally enforceable right to do something that is illegal in general.

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  54. Re:i want strong spam laws by herbierobinson · · Score: 2

    If that's happening to them, they should have no problem with filing a complaint against the spammer and/or suing them. It violates trade dress laws in most states and if nothing else, it would be trespass to chattels.

    --
    An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
  55. That would be a good thing by serutan · · Score: 2

    When enough spam comes from a country (not to name names [cough-Korea-cough]), the TLD becomes poison. People in the US get sick of dealing with the problem and simply block the whole damn country. Blocking .kr cut my spam in half. Eventually people in those countries whose legitimate email keeps bouncing will get on their own government's ass to deal with the problem in their own special way, like maybe a good caning.

    Some of these people absolutely have no clue. Take for example, Laura Betterly, the so-called Spam Queen in this Wall Street Journal article (no reg). Quote: "I'm just trying to make a living like everyone else." Apparently Laura thinks we all make a living by being assholes. Now there's a caning candidate if there ever was one.

  56. Re:Spamassassin is the bomb! by darien · · Score: 2

    POPFile is a very nice Bayesian solution for Windows users (and everyone else).

  57. But look at the stupid penalties by wildbill2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    That particular Yahoo story doesn't point it out, but the FCC is allowing these companies to "settle" by them promising not to do it again.

    Oh right.

    The only thing that will stop these spamsters is *stiff* penalties, like maybe a $100 fine per spam or jail time.

  58. script kiddies by TamMan2000 · · Score: 2

    I agree with you, I think that physically kicking their ass, may not be a good idea (as much as I would love to hold them down while they recieve a good beating).

    Why don't all the script kiddies out there put their DDOS to good use and choke the pipe of those who choke ours?
    It would even make the cost of being a spam friendly ISP a little higher, and push the cost of spamming up...

    --
    "I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
  59. Re:You have to see this quote from the FTC. LOL! by Hard_Code · · Score: 2

    Apparently he was sick of it and was not going to take it any more.

    --

    It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
  60. Follow The Money by Steve+B · · Score: 2
    If the IPs and networks are all registered in China, how do you track it (easily) to Joe Spammer in Florida?

    If the spammer is trying to make money, he needs to identify a domestic contact point for the suckers to send it. Make spamming illegal, and the domestic contact point becomes implicated in a crime and can be shut down (POB closed by the postal inspector, credit card frozen, whatever) as soon as the spamming is proved.

    --
    /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
  61. Good idea! It might just work! by phorm · · Score: 2

    Unsubscribing does not work. However, it would be nice if email client could recognize this supposed opt-out statement and categorize the letter as junk mail.

    That's so simple it's almost brilliant. There are a few bugs with it, but it's actually not a bad idea.
    The main bug: You'd have to either have logic for lists you do want, or only use that particular email account for personal emails

    But seriously, checking an email for the word "unsubscribe" (and a few other key ones) as a hyperlink would probably work very well for that variety of spam. Since 99% of people won't send you "unsubscribe" hyperlinked, it solves the problem of knocking out the wrong emails.

    Has anybody actually tried this? Sometimes there's brilliance in random musing.

  62. They filter .GOV by The+Raven · · Score: 2

    Most spam lists filter out .gov addresses for just that reason. They're not completely stupid.

    Unfortunately.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.