Slashdot Mirror
Linux Kernel Bugzilla Launched
paskie writes "Martin J. Bligh of IBM announced
launch of a Bugzilla bug tracking
database for 2.5 linux kernel series - it's at bugme.osdl.org. Finally there will be
some possibility to easily keep track of known bugs without being subscribed to
thousand of mailing lists or googling to death. According to the relevant lkml
thread, kernel developers will still prefer discussions to happen on the
mailing lists, though. The Bugzilla server
and connection is donated by OSDL and IBM
folks administer the database."
"Please let me or the supplied mailto URLs know of any problems you encounter, but please be patient with any inital teething problems ;-)"
and don't tell slashdot just yet
Another server bites the dust.
If the developers are still going to prefer the mailing lists, why set up a bugzilla for it? Now there's just one more place to check for bugs. This would only be good if it were going to be used as the only place for reporting bugs. As it is, it'll probably just be an annoyance.
Linux's implementation of TCP/IP successfully connects to goatse.cx:80
Expected result : connection attempt should be rejected.
Funny you should say that. In a way, it is sort of backwards. I mean, Mozilla's a great browser, but it's not exactly stable, compared to the Linux kernel. Maybe the Moz team should be taking bug tracking tips from Linus.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
I'm impressed. The Mozilla bugzilla normally falls over the moment /. looks it's way, which is why it denies a slashdot referral now (if I remember correctly).
:)
Either it's just the fact this one's basically empty at the moment, or he may have some advice for the mozilla folks on properly setting up bugzilla.
Bug Fixing != Bug Tracking.
slashdot!=valid HTML
Time and materials are being donated. What possible problem could you have with that?
Does it honestly matter how the bugs are being tracked, just as long as they are tracked?
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see anything in the announcement or on the site that this is using DB2 (what I presume you mean by "IBM's db"). Are you just assuming that's the case because IBM's hosting it?
It should be noted that Bugzilla 'bugs' are used for everything from bug reports to feature enhancement requests.. so only a certain percentage of those 'bugs' are really bugs at all.
slashdot!=valid HTML
Many coders are disinclined to use bugs, because they don't necessarily improve code speed.
Whether or not bugs will accelerate any particular program has to be determined
case-by-case. And for most software, the deciding factor should be whether bugs
will simplify development and correctness (theoretically they can, but lots of
developers don't understand bugs and use them wrong).
My company has some realtime networked game for which bugs were an impediment.
Both the rate/duration of screen refreshs and network transmissions were low
enough so they didn't usually interfere with each other in the same bug. But
using bug-safe versions of standard library functions was degrading every other
part of the program with constant locking/unlocking.
So no bugs was faster. (Maybe cleverer people could've made special bug-unsafe
alternative functions to use in contexts where we know inter-bug race conditions
won't occur. But munging around with 2 standard libraries in one program is
riskier than we'd like to deal with)
That's blatently inconsiderate, and intolerably so. It's almost as though paskie and CowboyNeal were intentionally being inconsiderate.
Now maybe it could use a name. How about
Tux-zilla?
None of the links on the /. page or OSDL seem to indicate that the database is IBM's software, just that they're providing the bug database admin labor. Where did you read that IBM's proprietary DB software is being used?
Even if your statement is true, perhaps part of IBM's return on investment is a real-world application study with this bug-tracker as a test case?
If my mission is to pick the easier project, Bugzilla would be it.
You can't seriously compare writing a web app with writing the whole client the web app runs through?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Bug 30 Owner: mbligh@aracnet.com (Martin J. Bligh)
Please enter
Exact Kernel version: 2.5.7
Distribution: red hat
Hardware Environment: pc
Software Environment: linux
Problem Description: RMS is too smelly - What do I do?
Steps to reproduce: No god no!!!
I don't see YOU offering to run a Bugzilla for the kernel. Put up or shut up.
I think the 2.5 kernel is about ready for launch.
Just need to clear up this last bug.
And in tomorrow's news, the new Bugzilla that people hoped would allow them to track bugs in the Linux kernel disappears off the net after being slashdotted to death. ;)
Well, all kidding aside, let's hope it will be a great tool to help in development of Linux.
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
The other day Slashdot had a story about the Lightest of the Linux that were hosted and managed by IBM. There were not even a slight delay in getting the story at any time. Same here. IBM knows how to do these things.
Help fight continental drift.
After all, these are the days of corporate accounting fiascos. In the current clime, transparency is a thing to be admired, and this is about as transparent as you can get.
Feature it, it's the timely thing to do, as well as the right thing to do.
For that matter, Microsoft doesn't have much room to cast stones, and if transparency becomes an issue, one can always bring up their stock dilution through options, non-payment of dividends that stockholders are requesting while sitting on $40e9 of cash, and sometimes-questionable donations to charity that look like they generate more revenue than the donation.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
So someone says "please don't slashdot us" and we slashdot them on the same day. That's just low. Come on editors, we need a little responsibility!
Awwww, come on, it's been a DAY already! That's like, MONTHS in the real world!
/* Linus is The One
Absolute nonsense! Making bugs public is a virtue of Open Source and Free Software, not a reason to worry. MS, on the other hand, would never go about making all of its warts public.
Or not, linux developers can then point back and show that they have a way to tracking bugs, fixing them and being open.
This seems to me that IBM wants to get closer to the kernel bug-tracking which is very important for them to adopt and support Linux on their products, especially on the high-end side. They've got to know the kernel inside out in order to introduce Linux and provide top quality service to prestigious customers.
hey, slashdot is no better than anyplace else... they are trying to sell ads by driving generating traffic.
I dont know about you people, but I dont harbour any fantasy about Slashdot being my living room, full of 500,000 of my closest friends... dont slip into that fantasy.
Here's a question: how much $ did ?which? editors make on the VA Sale? Do you think their priorities/opinions are the same? Do you *really* think the goals of slashdot are the same since VA bought them...?
Slashdot as an entitiy (such as it is) is amoral.
You would think the first online gaming system in the world would garner a mention on Slashdot.
You'd think that even trolls would know that online gaming has been around pre-2002.
Yeah, but hink about it this way...
Bug open: 11:54 EST 15/11/2002
Status: Serious
Bug Closed: 17:16 EST 15/11/2002
By: Linus T
How's Microsoft gonna FUD that?!
Hey, right now all MS has to do to compile a page of reasons to switch is type "linux bugs" into Google:
(Yeah, I know this is a troll - but hey, I'm bored).
Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
Its great that the kernel is getting a bugzilla.
However, attention must be drawn to the plight of the poor, unfortunate GCC hackers, who are still having to put up with an inferior bug tracking system, despite a flurry of activity earlier in the year, it seems that little progress has been made on implementation. Lets all hope that GCC hackers don't have to continue to suffer the pain of crappy bug tracking for too much longer.
This is too funny. IBM doing something good for the community and for themselves at the same time? Nothing wrong with at. Altruism and capitlism can go hand and hand. And I am not one to look a gift server in the mouth.
First we have people talking about IBM doing this to control kernel developlemt. This is nuts. IBM understands that Linux is big in the cards for them and they also understand the Free As in Beer Developmental community needs to really have a central repository for this sorta thing.
So IBM cuts loose the space and the DB for it. Throws in an admin or two. Why? Cause they got big money on Linux, they want to move the big corps over to it. So they need the assurance that bugfixes, patches, what have you, is on a reliable server somewhere that will always be around.
Yeah it does benefit them and benefit us. More power to em. OR what we are gonna round robin the server costs every month? We are gonna set up a Paypal Account and each chip in our own unlimited funds in this street paved of gold IT industry we have now?
IBM is a business and it sees that helping the community can help itself. QUID PRO QUO my friends.
IBM was a monopoly, but they also make damn good equipment. Always have. You can go on about a failed run of hard drives, or some bad workstations. But hey happends to all of them...
And this busines that IBM needs to know the kernel inside and out. Ahhh, I do not think anyone needs to be talking out there ass about us teaching IBM anything about operating systems. Much less one ending in *NIX.
IBM is one of the best things to happen to our community. They are making the inroads in the corporate road for us.
JEEZ. Get off the high horse people.
TheFlatline
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Could be a slightly silly question here - is there a Bugzilla or similar bug tracking site for Apple's OSX?
Sounds familiar? For me to: it reminds me Bill Gates' "gifts" in India.
Technically, no way IBM can prove that DB/2 is better than PostgreSQL. But IBM even doesn't try to do it. No need. A sponsor can dictate its own choice of technology.
Less is more !
Geez guys! Run it through the w3c validator!
We're suppossed to be promoting the standards right?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Besides, if Microsoft did administer a public bug database, they would have to run it on some form of *NIX. Windows doesn't support enough processors!
Karma: Incomprehensible (Mostly affected by posting at +5, reading at -1, and metamoderating everything unfair.)
query 'microsoft bug'
return: Results 1 - 10 of about 1,280,000. Search took 0.21 seconds.
yeah. they have a whopping 170,000 less PUBLIC bugs than we do. damn. now think about the fact that all of our bugs can be SEEN and actually FIXED by people not being paid by a cartel/conglamorate/*instert bad word thingy here* (whos best interests it is in to hide such things.)
wow they must really have us beat.
anybody wanna do a search on security flaws ? ? ?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
Where did you read that IBM's proprietary DB software is being used?
IBM's DB software is not being used. It is a run-of-the-mill open-source DB.
From an earlier /. interview:
Talk to the IBM Linux Hackers
IBM Kernel Hackers Respond
IIRC this is a Netscape term, as Zarro Boogs != Zero Bugs, but it's pretty close :-)
That's what they get for assuming that slashdot editors read the links...
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
The server seems to be quite healthy and a quick query of current bugs surprisingly doesn't show any "First Bug" posts.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
Unfortunately, the dot-com crash ensued just as I was getting started, and things have been a little too hectic since then for me to do much about it.
A number of people suggested I use bugzilla, and I thought a lot about it, but didn't want to use it, at least not in its current form, because it lacks a feature that I feel is critical for a bug database that is to be used to track operating system development: storage of preset machine configurations.
Perhaps the people with the new kernel bugzilla can put this in.
What I envisisioned was a way for the user to specify the hardware configuration of their machines by drawing on a database of all known hardware. (Just making that database would be a big job in itself). The user could give a name to each configuration.
Then when reporting a bug, the user would be presented with a popup menu or scrolling list of their configuration presets. There would be a way to make variations for a particular bug report, to indicate that a board had been added or removed from the stored preset.
Then the user would upload their kernel .config file.
This would allow the kernel developers to search for combinations of hardware that is or isn't installed along with kernel config options that are selected or not set.
This would help a lot to identify situations where FooBar Corp's ethernet board doesn't work when you've got a WhizzyVideo card installed.
I would also encourage people to report the configurations for successful kernel tests. That would help to build confidence as well as to identify untested areas so more attention could be paid to them.
Unfortunately, I'm just a guy working alone and although some have offerred to help, I have been working too hard just to survive to even coordinate the development of such a database.
However, I have found some time to write some articles on various aspects of Linux and web software quality and post them at the site. Writing is what I like to do to relax when I'm not programming - I write articles like these whenever I can, despite despite what the anklebiters have to say about them.
The OSDL was kind enough to mirror my two kernel testing articles and even translate them into Japanese. You can mirror or translate them if you like, as they are under the GNU Free Documentation License. I would be particularly pleased if any of my articles were translated into more languages.
The two kernel testing articles are:
-
Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel
(
Japanese translation)
- Using Test Suites to Validate the Linux Kernel
(
Japanese translation)
I should point out that I asked a couple of the larger commercial Linux vendors to contribute to the Linux Quality Database, which would have enabled me to feed myself while developing it, but I got turned down. I find that hard to understand, as it would have benefited them tremendously. I don't want to say who it was that turned me down, as I don't think negative publicity would be productive.But I found the OSDL's interest in my articles quite encouraging.
A lot of people are griping about not being able to file bugs anonymously with bugzilla. I had always intended to allow anonymous bug reports, although I would encourage users to log in so we could follow up with them.
Also some people are saying in other comments that bug reports that aren't emailed to the linux-kernel mailing lists won't be as good as the traditional ones. But I'd like to point out that linux-kernel is one of the highest traffic mailing lists around, and the discussions are extremely technical and often heated. Patches also fall on the floor all the time, as I found when someone posted a patch that fixed the problem I reported when I first subscribed.
I felt then and still feel that linux-kernel is too intimidating for the average linux user, so most will choose not to partipate in kernel QA. A bug database with a nice web interface where the reporter doesn't have to participate in the mailing list traffic can only encourage more people to post bugs. And a bug database would make it possible to log successes without overwhelming the list.
It would also be possible to publish an XML interface to the database, so people could log reports programmatically. That would help for identifying configuration information, for example you could run a program that would do what lspci does and upload it to your account at the bugbase.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
> and people that write buggy browsers will somehow write a non-buggy
> bug tracking system?
Mozilla is written in C, C++, XUL, and JavaScript, and has to run
on innumerable platforms and display under innumerable GUIs.
Bugzilla is written in Perl and HTML and has to run under Linux
and display on the web. It's an easier thing.
That said, Bugzilla is extremely useful and convenient, _much_ more
functional than other competing issue-tracking systems. There's a
reason other large projects (OpenOffice, Gnome, and now maybe the
Linux kernel) are adopting it: it's best-of-breed issue-tracking
software.
Did anyone else notice that the version over at ODSL (for the Linux
kernel) has an added feature that b.m.o. doesn't have, where you
can set a pref so that after changing a bug you view that bug again
instead of going on to the next bug that matches your most recent
search criteria? That's quite cool; I hope b.m.o. gets that too.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Most of them are duplicates, but the nice thing is, Bugzilla makes
it easy to track such things. Bugzilla _was_ really buggy. The
speed with which it shaped up during the second half of 2001 is
at least partly due to Bugzilla; once a critical mass of serious
testers get involved with using Bugzilla for its intended purpose,
the developers don't have to waste extra time tracking bugs down.
If a bug report doesn't have enough details, they just mark it
qawanted, comment about what information is needed, and future it
until one of the testers coughs up some details -- and someone will,
if the bug is at all critical.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
> Bugzilla _was_ really buggy
Err, that should read, "Mozilla _was_ really buggy". It crashed
all the time, until circa 0.9.5 or so, then got progressively more
stable until 1.0.1. (1.1 and 1.2 have slipped a bit in terms of
stability, but that was expected, as they're for feature work.)
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Wait a minute... you trust proxies and free email services but you don't trust this?
Think about it Mr. Paranoia, even if you're just scanning for open proxies rather than using public ones you're still screwed. If *I* were looking to snoop on the actions of people like yourself, I'd set up a few open proxies and log them like a motherfucker.
You are not safe. Anywhere. Anytime. Get over it.
Now I wonder how many unclosed bugs will be in Linux database when 2.6 is released? Will this be Microsoft's turn to laugh?
MSDOS: 20+ years without remote hole in the default install
Does that mean it will be up to poor Martin J. Bligh to bathe RMS? Oh the horror! :)
Laugh! It's a joke.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Well, like the other guy said, we should at least try to be as compatible as possible.
w3c doesn't absolutely require a charset to be specified.
The errors that link came up with didn't deal with any of the items you listed, they're just plain improper html.
Fixing those problems wouldn't hurt anything. Probably wouldn't help either, but like I said in my original post, we should be setting an example and following the standards as much as possible.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Any reason why the article points at Mozilla's in-use Bugzilla rather than the Bugzilla project page?
It's almost as though ??????
What does it take for you to get that it isnt as though?
And why nerfing malevolent by inconsiderate ?
More big corps support Linux, that better linux becomes if as long the corps doesn't try to control kernel development, only use the benefits of helping them.
:-)
This is very strategic move from OSDL and IBM cause it helps a lot of linux kernel development thus getting patches faster and because kernel gets better & stabler IBM gets more systems sold with Linux.
Besides Linux needs more corps supporting, because it's they key to Linux grow, i've found using linux a bit of hard because some corps doesn't support linux, biggest problems i've had with Linux is that my printer and scanner isn't supported and some applications what i need simply aren't there, for example Adobe Photoshop, GIMP is simply total crap when compared to Photoshop, even GIMP is very good basic image manipulation software and i prefer GIMP over Paint shop pro for example.
Next biggest problem i had was the thing i was unable to play many games under Linux, only Quakes, Unreal tournament and few others when i'd liked to play Counter-Strike, Capitalism II etc...
Emulating simply isn't the way to do it.
I know it's old news that IBM supports linux but this bug tracker might help those corps which haven't done any native Linux ports before and thus some corps starts supporting Linux, and again when more software comes to Linux IBM gets more systems sold and more people start using Linux.
I just wonder where are all those overclockers who use Linux, i found Linux way more better when i was OC'ng even i couldn't change FSB etc... by software, my old system booted fine at over 1700Mhz to Linux as under wind0ze it left me ~1670Mhz at a good day (1.33Ghz TBird air cooled)
Oh yeah, i tried to stay on topic but i just had to say some other things also
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
Severity: Critical
Subject: Bugzilla slow
Comment: Guys, I just found out from Slashdot, but your site is really really slow. You should do something about that. To help you, I am registering a bug for each page I find to be slow.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Obviously, whoever modded me down never browses at -1, and has never seen a *BSD is dying troll...
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
I wish they had supported wrap= for the textarea tag.
Other than that one, I haven't really found anything wrong with the spec.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
How to fix Bugzilla
Are these concerns relevant now?
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu