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Demise Of The Premier .NET community site
Seems like something has horribly gone wrong at ASPFriends.com. The site is being closed as a result of a break down in negotiations with Microsoft over support for funding this developer community forum which has over 73000 members who post over 12 million messages a month regarding MS development. The primary reason for this break down seems to be do with the contract that had to be signed to receive funding. I'm no lawyer and I've not seen the entire contract but it seems like it contains clauses which basically state "at our discretion, with 30 days notice we can terminate this contract and take ownership of your site".
Keep thinking MS is a community friendly company, see what happens.
You play with a tiger, expect to get scratched.
...
It's almost as if they are completely ignorant of the fact that DEVELOPERS are the only ones keeping Microsoft in their position, so -- of *COURSE* Microsoft is going to be aggressive about controlling them.
The only way to stop MS is to just *NEVER* write code for them. Ever.
They know this
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
This kinda shit happens simply because MS is run by lawyers and marketers, each and every time MS will choose short term gain over a long term beneficial relationship. Partners, developers, customers, MS will screw you over if it means they can make a quick buck.
And I use MS products for 90% of my development, perhaps it is time to pick up some books on competitors instead...
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
Good products are only a part of the overall make up of a good company. It is just too bad that this guy had to learn the hard way that, despite their public party line, Microsoft is only happy when they're in full control, running the show.
If you step out of line or play even one note off key, they kick you out of the orchestra and confiscate your instrument. Never mind that you paid for it yourself. They own it now.
I'm glad he didn't sign that contract, but I'm sad that he has to loose not only his years of work, but the motivation to support his community.
Even if it is a Microsoft community. Maybe some day he'll get into a better community with a company that will nurture his zeal.
Kalen D'arrie
First, he is ethical. Which is at the root of the free software movement.
I guess he could not see the kind of redmond actions his site is suffering right now because he must have blinded himself due to his total devotion and defense to MS products. Being the one to be hurt always make things easier to understand.
Yet, as he points out, he could go and get bought, or he could go on and continue to support his site that way, but prefers to shut it down due to ethical reason. Good man.
Second. He has built a serious community site through a lot of efforts which is also the core of the free software efforts. Apparently, redmond can cope with this kind of behavior (too independant for them, probably) despite recent speeches about community spirit.
Third, such a fine man, could be very usefull in helping some projects in getting what they lack, the kind of features that made this man stick to redmond so long. There must be something real in his praises of their products and too often, unix cultured people dont get that kind of "things".
But he still links to asp.net forums despite all they just did to him.
Well, he probably dreams in a "deus ex machina" Gates, coming down from his tower and putting things together, because he is "Doing the right thing and letting Ms know when its own employees hurt it's reputation is vital.". Yes, it must be "some employee", it can't be the compagny as a whole.
That is his flaw probably. He still dont get that what is happening to him is the spirit of redmond activity and has been the key to their success since the beginning.
Repeat after me:"extend and embrace; or strangle to death."
So we might see a redmond move to correct this situation, but it will be a one time pr move. The kind of "redmond make a deal with peru government" move.
What prevent Micro$oft from picking up the site after it is closed?
So basically these guys made a website for ASP developers and expected Microsoft to be so thankful that they'll pay for it out of the greedyness of their hearts.
Sure, that could have worked:)
True warriors use the Klingon Google
The big mistake this guy made was a completely natural one: he confused culture with market share. In our society we place almost no value on non-owner participation. No matter what something may mean to you personally, no matter how much energy you may put into promoting it, no matter how much the owners materially profit from your efforts, it's still 100% theirs and 0% yours, and they can take it away from you at a whim.
Companies love you to be a cheerleader for Version 1 until Version 2 comes out, then you are supposed to abandon Version 1 and embrace Version 2. Britney is out, Samantha is in. Your website must shut down. Not because you did anything wrong. They just don't need you any more. You were an asset, now your loyalty to their previous products is competition. You're in the way.
Save your loyalty and devotion for your family and friends, your ideals and your personal standards -- the parts of your culture that can't be owned by others or taken away.
Justin Wong nailed this one: http://www.aspfriends.com/search/MSG.ASP?msgid=753 489
I use these lists regularly. On more than one occasion, they have saved me countless hours (and days even) when I have had some sort of unusual technical question. In fact, these lists are somewhat of a "security blanket". The news groups are a lot slower, more impersonal. Back in the beta days, many of the MS project team would answer questions on the lists. I've personally corresponded with authors of books, presenters, and other experts. I'm going to be really bummed if and when they go down. I also find these lists very useful as a .NET User Group leader where I can announce my meetings in the community list.
.NET topics, and a great guy in general), Charles didn't want to accept the terms of the MS agreement (he went to MS in the first place because he could no longer fund the list- costs about $3K per month).
Anyway, I've kind of been taking a back seat and watching the responses. It seems like its basically a battle between MS and Charles Carrol, the list owner. Actually, Charles hasn't really said anything as of yet since he has been in Florida, but according to Scott Guthrie (the MS founder/expert on ASP among other
A lot of people are guessing he didn't want to accept because of one of the clauses-- saying how MS gets the list if it closes. A quote from Scott's email:
Over the course of the last few days, Charles has refused to reply to
our emails, and has immediately hung up on us the two times we've been
able to get through to him on the phone.
We've had a long association with Charles and respect the work he's done
with the community, so it's distressing to the team and to me personally
that Charles has chosen this path.
What is suprising to me is that a bunch of people on the list (over 70K people total on the list) are offering to pony up $20. Kloberg Mac, apparently a close friend of Charles, has said the following:
The reason Charles hasn't responded yet is because he's currently in Florida, teaching a class.
He wanted me to let you know, that although your willingness to save AspFriends is appreciated,
*** PLEASE DO NOT SEND ANY DONATIONS AT THIS TIME ***
I'm sure he will comment in more detail later...
Regardless of what happens, this is a MAJOR PR issue for MS. I think it needs to be resolved as QUICKLY as possible. A lot of people are starting to get really peaved at MS. I question why they got involved in the first place. Even though the group is obviously benefitting MS, I really don't think Charles should have went to MS. Getting money from MS (or any company for that matter) is going to have some strings attached!
Unfortunately I cannot think of a great solution to this. I suppose paypal donations are one way, but even that means there is no guarantee that the 3K bill would be paid each month. Requiring donations or a subscription means that you lose out on a lot of the experienced techies who are contributing as well as the newbies who are looking to learn. Losing either means a critical hit (techies in terms of answering questions, newbies in terms of growing the list).
On the other hand, if MS starts a mailing list, it will be percieved as totally biased and probably have stringent rules. Example: no bashing MS products or MS people. People want "freedom of speech" and an independent list means that.
Meanwhile, I'll be watching the activity and will try to post updates to this thread as it unfolds.