Slashdot Mirror


Open Source Housing

No_Weak_Heart writes "The latest issue of Metropolis magazine has an interesting look at the house of the future. The primary focus of the article is on MIT's House_n project and its offshoot - the Open Source Building Alliance. The article discusses potential benefits of adopting a modular, component-based, everyone's-invited approach to building. Houses built via interactive design stategies and mass-cutomization vs. single-purpose structures driven by one ideology."

230 comments

  1. Modular Housing? by PaybackCS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Didn't Japan try this a few years ago.. I never head that it had gone anywhere? Anyone have more info on this?

    1. Re:Modular Housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The housing in Japan is terrible. Essentially, they have created disposable houses. Houses are not intended to last more than 10 or 15 years. After that, things have worn out to the point that you go to the "house store" and take a look at what kinds of features you want in a new house and order it. The building company then comes, razes your existing house, builds the new one out of pre-fab parts, and you can move in within a month.

      When people say that Americans have a disposable culture, they obviously haven't looked at the Japanese.

    2. Re:Modular Housing? by PaybackCS · · Score: 1, Interesting

      How many times have you been to Japan? I've visited it in several places, from Tokyo Area to Southern Japan. I have reletives who live their, and my Dad grew up in the Tokyo Area.

      The houses I've been in and most of those that I've seen have all been quite well made, Japan has a history of making quality things. Now, maybe the structures you're talking about are in very low-income areas of the country, but I've never personally witnessed them.

      The modular houses I was talking about were basically the Japanese version of Manufactured homes. Instead of the whole house being pre-designed, you could select modules that could lock tother, and wire together very quickly. Made mostly of steel and other non-wood products, they were quick to setup, and, unlike the manufactured houses in the US, were all custom to what you wanted. I think it's a better idea in manufactured homes then what is largely available in the US.

      Actually, didn't the Japanese Standard of living just surpass the US's?

    3. Re:Modular Housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I live here now and actually just went house shopping a month back to replace my in-law's aging house. They are at the upper end of the spectrum of old houses with a 18 year old house. All new housing in any Japanese metropolitan area is the type of pre-fab crap that I described in my earlier post. It is designed to look nice and be fairly functional, but it is not designed to last.

      The perception of Japanese product quality is one of the biggest myths that becomes clearly obvious once you live here for any length of time. Japanese love new things and things are built to reflect that. Cars are disposed of after 5 years, houses are replaced every 10-15. God knows how quickly TV sets go bad around here.

      What really gets me is the way Americans seem to drool over Sony products, when Sony is the epitome of this disposable culture. They come out with things (TVs, computers, cameras, etc.)that have all sorts of bells and whistles but quickly become obsolete and broken within a short time frame.

      Japanese housing is basically what you described, modular and catalog-based. You show up at the model homes park and take a look at what you too can upgrade your life to. Then you repeat 10 years later when the walls are cracking and the built in cabinets are falling apart.

    4. Re:Modular Housing? by djupedal · · Score: 3, Informative

      Like many things out of Japan, modular housing was designed for overseas markets, not so much for the domestic market. Once they prove and stabilize the concept, they market it to other countries. Similar to the 'building-builder' robot construction device that debuted in Yokohama ten years ago. It was originally targeted for China, where they need new high-rises in a hurry, etc.

    5. Re:Modular Housing? by PaybackCS · · Score: 1

      Just for the record, I did live in Japan when I was younger.

      And I can see your point, when I was there, the homes I stayed in were mostly much older, and had been built well before or just after WWII.

      As for cars and such, yes, many cars are quite new, but then the same thing goes in parts of Europe. After a car is more then 5 or 10 years old, it gets very expensive to keep since it doesn't meet the current safety and economy standards. I personally feel this is not so bad a thing. The only reason that the US can never really do this is the lack of any kind of efficient, effective national transportation system. Much of the US road system was built for the car, rather then in Japan and Europe, where many were simply adapted for the car.

    6. Re:Modular Housing? by Bishop · · Score: 2

      It is not that different in America. The time line is just a little longer: 30-40 years. Many of the houses in the 60s and 70s boom were poorly built and are currently being razed or rebuilt. The current crop of houses are no better. Haveing watched the construction of, and lived in a modern suburban home I can assure you that many North American home builders are striveing for that 15year turnover.

    7. Re:Modular Housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't Japan try this a few years ago.

      For maximum happiness, you want:

      • A Japanese Wife,
      • An English House
      • An American Salary
      • A Chinese Cook.

      For maximum grief, you want:

      • A Japanese House
      • An English Cook
      • An American Wife
      • A Chinese Salary

      I think I'll pass on the Japanese house.

    8. Re:Modular Housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try this link for this website... http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/91feb/9102house. htm - I found it quite interesting what you can build for the price.

    9. Re:Modular Housing? by 4of12 · · Score: 2

      Builders don't have to strive for planned obsolescence. It's a natural consequence of using shoddy materials and the cheapest possible labor.

      I did all the subcontracting to build my own house. Initial motivation for doing that was to save money and be able to afford a better house than what I would have paid a builder to do for me.

      Guess what?

      The final cost of the house was about the same as what a builder would have charged me for the same size of house and same general appearance.

      What happened was that I didn't cut corners for the sake of bringing the cost down. Polybutylene plumbing? No thanks, I'll go with copper. Top of the line kitchen appliances, the kind that you typically won't find unless you pay twice as much for your house.

      If I were going to reside in the house for the median 4 years that most Americans sit in one spot, then my investment in invisible quality would have been a mistake - I could have made more money building something that just "looked nice" rather than something that "is nice". Home buyers just look at what they can see: they can't tell if the slab was too thin, the roofer didn't seal things correctly, or if the framing crew was drunk.

      But I plan to live in the house for multiple decades and I don't want to be dealing with lots of house maintenance issues when I'm 75 yeas old.

      But face it: most Americans are dumb enough to buy shoddy goods "because it's cheap". The overwhelming success of Walmart is testimony to that.

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    10. Re:Modular Housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Traditional wood framed walls + concrete slab housing should last about 50 years maximum in the USA.

    11. Re:Modular Housing? by Bishop · · Score: 2

      Why? 100 year wood framed houses seem to still be standing.

  2. Did anyone besides me ... by craenor · · Score: 1

    Read this and think of the Hobbit Holes project?

    1. Re:Did anyone besides me ... by ni5mo · · Score: 1

      Did anyone else besides me read this and think that the diagram near Automated Architecture looked like building a house in The Sims?

  3. I dunno about this one by pardasaniman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are hundreds of millions of people who can't even buy houses.

    We are very lucky to even be living where we are.

    Research should be going into cheaper builiding materials, and house effeciency.

    1. Re:I dunno about this one by Mitreya · · Score: 1

      I bet the architects and people who produce building materials stall these efforts :). Not to mention that any news involving gadgets and multi-million dollar contracts is much more fun when an improved building material...

    2. Re:I dunno about this one by Ingolfke · · Score: 1

      True and I applaud your thankfullness, but a more efficient building process would probably drive down the cost of building houses and make them more accessible to everyone. If not reduced costs, at least people would get a home that that had a better met their needs.

    3. Re:I dunno about this one by L.+VeGas · · Score: 2

      People that can't afford to buy houses are already using this approach.
      modular, component-based, everyone's-invited approach to building
      There's a several of these communities in local washes and underpasses already.

    4. Re:I dunno about this one by shokk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Once a modular model is widely adopted, it will be much cheaper to crank out modular homes which can then be thrown up for anyone with minimal dollars. It would then be cheap to just have the pieces shipped to whatever 3rd world country a charity organization was funding and have the homes knocked together with much less labor cost than nailing everything together. Of course, to imagine what you would get for your dollar or rupie, check out old Soviet block architecture.

      I've been to countries like India, BTW, and this modular concept has to compete again things like corrugated metal roofing, stacked brick and cinderblock walls, and whatever other fabricated raw material can be dragged home. I'm not confident it can be made *that* cheap. However, if these countries were able to provide financing options to their citizens like what the US government gave returning GIs after WWII, they might be able to reach for something more. That would require those countries to have good finances to begin with and that's another story.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    5. Re:I dunno about this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Research should be going into cheaper builiding materials, and house effeciency.


      You seem to think that constuction is a significant portion of the cost of new housing.

      Two words: HA HA

      Try: permitting, environmental impact study, payoffs to get the zoning you need, cost of land, cost of delays when the neighbors sue to prevent the new construction, **PROFIT**,payoffs when they buyers sue for construction defects, etc.

      cheaper building materials will only result in cheaper (more crappy) housing, not cheaper (less expensive) housing.

    6. Re:I dunno about this one by SN74S181 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Pardon me, but sitting here living in this inexpensive but nice house I have that was built in 1900, this all sounds like Trailer Park stuff.

    7. Re:I dunno about this one by Fizzl · · Score: 1

      Oh for the love of GOD!
      There just has to be atleast one of these hippocrit think-of-the-children-buy-them-houses-and-rice-the y-will-be-happy-for-a-century-with-that-money-post s per article.
      Blow your own money what ever charity you please, but let the investors/goverment use their money on usefull and meaningfull projects for those who pay them. I don't give a shit about that starving kid 10 000km's away. There is no such money in world that would compensate the greed of individuals or in-balancies of the globe. Just live with the fact that you are one of the "better" folks.

      If you can't accept that, move to where-ever and starve yourself, this way you are not using the valuable resources of your new friends there.

      And if you bothered to even check out what the article was about, in a long term this will affect the living efficiency, building efficiency, and will probably yield new, more efficient materials.

      /me wants some feeding, bring it on.

    8. Re:I dunno about this one by CommieLib · · Score: 2

      Seconded. A group from my church will be traveling about 550 to a town in Mexico (I'm in Texas) to build beds for an orphanage where the children are currently sleeping on the ground. I'm sure Slashdot's Eastern European posters can put this in even greater perspective. Kind of makes you rethink your whole "My life is hell because I can't get digital cable" philosophy, and makes you want to pick up a hammer.

      --
      If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
  4. As Microsoft would say... by Lord_Slepnir · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we use open source housing, soon all the burgulars will know the vulnerabilities of your house and be able to break in easier. Only by keeping housing plans secret can we keep them secure

    1. Re:As Microsoft would say... by andyring · · Score: 1
      But, if all your Windows were made the exact same way, a thief knows the easiest way in. The same hammer/hack works.

      If I design my "open source" house with, say, bullet-proof glass, the thief doesn't know this, because it's different and he can't see it, and therefore has a harder time breaking in......

    2. Re:As Microsoft would say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will you provide bullet proof glass to everyone?

    3. Re:As Microsoft would say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's either that, or wait two months for your toast to pop at the linux house.

    4. Re:As Microsoft would say... by Traicovn · · Score: 1

      My open-source house would have a 'free as in beer' tap... :)

      Anybody else thinking of these houses as 'pods'? Kinda creepy... Becoming a pod person and everything.... They also remind me a lot of the trailers in trailer parks or at some construction sites (some of those are modular, and you can expand a house by simply adding another trailer).

      --

      [Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
      {Traicovn}
  5. True Open Source Housing... by jki · · Score: 4, Funny
    everyone's-invited approach to building.

    I just read the local newspaper about a guy who breaks into peoples house when they are away - lives there for a couple of days (watching videos, sleeping in your bed, using your toiler and shower) without stealing anything concrete. Then, when done - he moves to next house. He has done this to dozens of times already, and has not been caught....now that's true open open source housing .)

    1. Re:True Open Source Housing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first 15 minutes of the movie "Breaking In".

  6. Sounds cool and all... by intermodal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but if you go to work in a modular cubicle do you really want to go home to a modular house? say what you will about functionality, but there's a certain amount of art to architecture that unless they make giant legos (which is a bad ass idea in itself) cannot really be translated into modular components very well.

    That said, it sounds good to me...I'd love a house that I could network without cutting drywall. But regardless, I think a giant house made of lego would be awesome.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    1. Re:Sounds cool and all... by Superfarstucker · · Score: 1

      next they are going to start 'minitaurizing' homess... Moore's law... if you can fit twice as many people in half the space? why the f*ck not?

    2. Re:Sounds cool and all... by shokk · · Score: 1

      In some countries citizens don't have a choice what they work in and what they go home to. Aren't you lucky?

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    3. Re:Sounds cool and all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      goddamn, man...just because others suffer doesn't mean I have to. You're probably one of the same stupid shits who say "eat that. people are starving in china." that doesn't make them any less hungry, nor does it make me feel any better for eating more than i desired. Same goes for my choice of housing. If I choose to live in a home rather than an apartment or some other hovel that I didn't choose, does my giving up my options make it any less shitty for the other bastard who may be living in a shanty? not the last time I checked.

    4. Re:Sounds cool and all... by stevejsmith · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Apostrophes do not denote plurality. Don't use either. Use "circa 1900s." And with the time that it takes you to find the damn tilde key you could write out "circa." That was Steve's helpful hint of the day.

    5. Re:Sounds cool and all... by malelder · · Score: 0

      but the ~ key is easy, its the console key :/

      --


      Yuma, AZ...You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
    6. Re:Sounds cool and all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to the Oxford Dictionaries team, an apostrophe in this particular case is acceptable, although 1900s is preferable.

      Also, 'c.' is the usual abbreviation of 'circa'.

      So, in order of preference:

      • c. 1900s
      • circa 1900s
      • c. 1900's
      • circa 1900s
    7. Re:Sounds cool and all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " but if you go to work in a modular cubicle do you really want to go home to a modular house? ...there's a certain amount of art to architecture that...cannot really be translated into modular components very well."

      Whenever I drive through the suburbs in this corner of the world I see a bunch of homes that look pretty much the same.

      Having observed construction of said homes it appears that many of the components are prefabricated. While not quite modular in the sense you're talking about (movable walls ect) people don't seem to mind that their floor plan and fixtures are the same as every third neighbor down the street.

      An interesting study would be to see how many suburbites work in cubicles.

    8. Re:Sounds cool and all... by shokk · · Score: 1

      Correct, but it's better to be thankful while you enjoy the advantage than to be ignorant of everything else around you while you enjoy it.

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    9. Re:Sounds cool and all... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      • ???
      • 2000!!!
  7. Tables that talk? by phorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many times are they going to try to make our appliances interactive before they realize that it's just not something most people want. I want my kitchen table to be - just a kitchen table. If I need a personal reminder to take my "medication" (no jokes please, allergy pills only), then really an organizer wall-fixture would be much more appealing.

    Granted, a living room table with an LCD or something would be cool, but please... the last thing I need while I'm trying to enjoy dinner is to have a bunch of flashing messages and (likely the next bright idea) advertisements floating under my coffee cup.

    Oh, and strike the talking chairs too, most people wouldn't care to hear "cripes man, go hit the thigh-master, yer crushing me!" when sitting down.

    1. Re:Tables that talk? by BHS_Turf · · Score: 1
      Why not?
      <WAVY-LINE DREAM SEQUENCE INTRO>
      I would love a chair that talked. And a clock, and maybe a pterodactyl. Whenever anyone who visits me and says the word of the day, we would all scream real loud.
      </WAVY-LINE DREAM SEQUENCE INTRO>
      hmm... nah, I'll just sit here and masturbate to the streaming porn movies.
    2. Re:Tables that talk? by stevejsmith · · Score: 1

      Yes. I agree. So far a slab of wood with four sticks has been working out for me fine.

    3. Re:Tables that talk? by jaiteend · · Score: 1

      Or who the heck needs a toaster who is always asking, "Do you want some toast, or perhaps a muffin?". I figure its only a few iterations away from being bonged with the SmegHammer.

      --
      and the Irishman took the fly in his hands and yelled, "spit it out!"
    4. Re:Tables that talk? by Galvatron · · Score: 2
      I think the point is that by using open standards, we can make everything work together. You're right, it would be easier to have an organizer wall fixture than a talking table, but why are we choosing one or the other? If you need those medication reminders, why not have your organizer communicate with your table (or more likely, your stereo system)? Or when you wake up in the morning, how about having your shades raise 15 minutes before wakeup, to ease the transition a little?


      I'm not saying all of these are necessarily good ideas, but once we build the capabilities, there will be bright people who will come up with good uses. The palmtop seemed like a doomed idea (see Newton) until Palm finally built a device that people found useful. I imagine the "wired home" will be much the same way, just a geek toy until some bright, enterprising soul makes it work.

      --
      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
    5. Re:Tables that talk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I'm not saying all of these are necessarily good ideas, but once we build the capabilities, there will be bright people who will come up with good uses



      Christ. Lets just wait until somebody thinks of the good uses OK.

      Besides. The palmtop is still doomed. Nobody uses their PDAs. It was just a fashion fad.
  8. Another Great Idea... by zanerock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another great idea that will be decades in coming, if ever. Like open source software, something like this would be anathema to the housing industry. Like open source software, there will only be commercial support *after* it's already taken off. Unlike software, however, building a house requires significant capital investment.

    I would love to see this model applied to housing (and many other things), but the economics make the realization highly infeasable without dedicated, zealous support and significant monetary investment.

    1. Re:Another Great Idea... by BWJones · · Score: 2

      Unlike software, however, building a house requires significant capital investment.

      I and a good portion of the tech industry would argue that software too often requires significant outlays of cash and not all of your code can be sent out into the wild in the hopes that someone will champion your cause and help you out with some coding. Hiring a good programmer runs me anywhere from $60-$150k/year and benefits are going to add another 20% on top of that. Now, tell me how I can not hire a programmer or two and keep the $120-300k all to myself so I can purchase that Porsche I have been eyeing? Also, let's not forget the infrastructure costs (and SGI or a Mac per seat and cubicle space), documentation costs with a technical writer, distribution costs etc...etc...etc...

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    2. Re:Another Great Idea... by Telastyn · · Score: 2

      Actually this sort of thing has been tried in the housing industry for some time... The 'significant capital investment' actually has come in the past decade from .com boomers, and has led to a influx of 'design/build' companies. Basically construction companies with architects and interior decorators on staff who draw up house designs and build everything while working with the customer to make the house *they* want.

      This only used to be done with/for the super-rich, but is now being done more and more because people are richer, and want alot of choice in their homes. In certain areas and cases it's cheaper because of less overhead and scheduling issues.

    3. Re:Another Great Idea... by zanerock · · Score: 2

      In the stereotypical case, this is true, but you *can* develop software with minimal investment (pick up a used eMachine for sub-100 say). Indeed, if you're really cash strapped, you don't even need a computer to develop software. I can remember debugging and coding by hand when the power went out...

      Most open source software did not start out by being funded by a company, it was done in someone's spare time, and at little or no cost (other than time) to the initial creators. The same is not true of a house.

    4. Re:Another Great Idea... by zanerock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think we're talking about the same thing at all. A custom house is not an open source house. In open source, I get to use another's designs and plans for free. The further implication, as I understand by "modular," is that I can mix and match vendors with very little need to coordinate between various fabricators because of certain standards (housing protocols, I suppose). So, I can by a bathroom unit from builder X, have my living room built as a variation of plan Y that I downloaded from the Internet, and have my kitchen trucked in in from fabricator Z.

      The fact that semi-custome housing has become more affordable is great, but is only vaguely related to the idea of an open source plans and widely adopted standards.

      The MIT site itself, as oppossed to the post, seems mostly focused on well designed, people centered (as oppossed to materials, builder centered) houses. Again, though, a custom designed house is a separate issue from a *well* designed house. You can have a well designed factory built home, a crappy custom home, or a well designed custom home. It's an orthogonal question.

      Indeed, most "custom" houses (for the upper middle class) that I've seen are really just mix n' match builder houses that draw on their proprietary plans and storehouse of plans, but they are neither open source, nor necessarily good design.

      Still, the increased flexibility of the builders and designers creates a more receptive atmosphere for the House_n and open source housing than if it wasn't there, but it is far from sufficient for what I, personally, would like to see.

    5. Re:Another Great Idea... by ElectricRook · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should coax innovation in from the wild, PERL

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  9. What's next? by eyeball · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's next? Open-sourced surgery? Open-sourced legal representation? Open-sourced sex!?!

    --

    _______
    2B1ASK1
    1. Re:What's next? by kingkade · · Score: 2

      Rats, I'll finally have to release the moves to my Twisty Nimble Fingers Maneuver (tm)

    2. Re:What's next? by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, sex was always open-source, it's just that it has conditions against /. crowd in the EULA of its license.

      What you really want is FSF, or Free Sex Foundation where sex is free not only as in speech but also as in beer (preferably)!

    3. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open-sourced sex!?!

      No way, sex is usually the act of closing a source.

    4. Re:What's next? by iomud · · Score: 2

      All the ubiquity of xml with none of the bitter aftertaste!

    5. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it's more a matter of finding a niche and filling it.

    6. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want an EMACS house. Push one Button and it turns into a gambling casino. Push another, it becomes a sailing yacht.
      Warning: sailing mode (M-S) requires turning the house upside down using the roof for a hull.

    7. Re:What's next? by HaeMaker · · Score: 2
    8. Re:What's next? by Malcolm+Scott · · Score: 1
      I want an EMACS house.
      What, one with no kitchen sink?
    9. Re:What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have to say, "It's a joke," then it's not funny.

    10. Re:What's next? by jonbrewer · · Score: 2

      What's next?:

      Open-sourced Government?...


      Yes. The closest you'll get to this is modern-day Slovenia, but many EU countries are on their way.
      Well the russians used to have something a little like that
      The Russians NEVER had anything like an Open-Sourced Government. Their "communism" was nothing of the sort and was fucked from the get-go.

    11. Re:What's next? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I am steell awating my open sorce spailing checkor. At leest finish it befour open sorce wepens of mass distrukshun so I can rite a gud gud-bie noat.

    12. Re:What's next? by Herkum01 · · Score: 2

      If cannot get into the FSF, the only other close option you have is a closed-source solution like upgrading your Girlfriend(current version) to a Wife 2002/2003. The biggest problems are just forefilling the requirements, involving time, alot of patience, it will constantly dump on you. This is of course after your have invested heavily in "Diamond" hardware with gold ring connectors. Don't even get me started on the EULA too.

      Just remember, that only a closed-source solution can forefill your needs in today's world, just ask the church!

  10. Design your own house, eh? by kingkade · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've seen some ghastly web pages created by 8-year old AOLers and housewives who sell knit mittens from their home in Montana. Can't imagine when we have some real winners designing their own house :)

    Seriously, though. Seems like technology combined with the homes systems is not only a great idea around for a while but will be more unavoidable.

    I;ve always thought that having one fiber optic line with phone, broadcast tv, inet access all accessible through on line. An having a central master computer controlling everything from programming tv shows (tivo-like) to the security system to controlling lights, heating for optimum energy savings (even depending on inhabitants current position in home and habits, by maybe even using integrated systems like the motion detection from the security system).

    Combined with solar/alternative fuels and increasing affordability of technology, it seems promising.

    Computer! Beer me!

  11. Open Funding, maybe... by Computer! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to this, the only way to contribute is to either take classes at MIT or a related school, or give money. As a footnote, there's an "everyone else" category, but it doesn't look all that interactive.

    I was getting all set to rant about how Open Source doesn't apply to housebuilding, until I realized that Open Source doesn't apply to this article, either.

    --
    If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
    1. Re:Open Funding, maybe... by Master+Bait · · Score: 2
      Once I went looking for open sourced or free plans and blueprints for housing on the internet. Nothing at all, except for some plans for straw-bale houses from a project in New Mexico.

      Does anybody have a source for free plans?

      --
      "Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
      --Tom Schulman
  12. A Buck Rogers double-wide? by blincoln · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm having trouble seeing the difference between what this article is describing and a mobile/"manufactured" home, other than the technological aspect.

    I can see this kind of mass-produced housing being useful for apartments (like Bruce Willis had in The Fifth Element), where the goal is basically to cram as much functionality into as little space as possible. There was a prototype apartment building in Japan, for example, that was basically a framework that all of the living pods bolted to. The idea was that you could take your module with you when you moved to another city, but it would also be handy to be able to replace individual units in case of a fire or whatever.

    I really don't see this happening for individual homes, though, other than in the existing market for trailers and other "manufactured" living. If I'm going to plonk down a sizeable amount of money for the land to live on, I want a one-off house. One that I can customize by knocking down/building walls, and so forth. When I read this article I think of a family where I grew up who had a big old trailer of a home, which had moveable plastic walls. I'm hardly Dr. Debonaire, Professor of Style, but that's just way too tacky for me.

    I *can*, however, see standardized electronic modules that are added to new and existing homes in the same manner as appliances, hidden in ceilings and crawlspaces, or built into walls like an ATM. The difference to me is analogous to androids vs. cyborgs. One is a simulation, and the other is an augmentation.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    1. Re:A Buck Rogers double-wide? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought I detected the scent of Trailer Park about all this, too.

      That, and it seems an awful lot like the kind of housing Pol-Pot would have wanted.

  13. Start with the easy stuff first by PD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Do we all have compact fluorescent lights in our houses? Or some other type of energy efficient lighting?

    Do we have proper insulation in the walls? It's surprising that many houses do not.

    How about a fuel cell electricity generator that runs off natural gas?

    Or maybe even something as simple as kitchen cabinets that are big enough, and not made from particle board?

    Cat 5 in the walls?

    Front door security camera, with a truly secure way to access it from the Internet?

    Stereo sound in every room?

    A bathroom fan that actually will clear the stink out of the room?

    I don't want the house of the future: I just want what's possible with the technology of TODAY.

    1. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by Computer! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Insightful. Good call. If you think about it, though, there were no bathroom fans at all in the 40s. Maybe in 2134 there'll be ones that work.

      --
      If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
    2. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by El · · Score: 2
      How about a fuel cell electricity generator that runs off natural gas?


      Last time I checked, these cost over $10,000, and the electricity the generate costs 10 times as much as available over the grid. So why would I want one?

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    3. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by El · · Score: 2

      In fact, almost every bathroom built in the 40s had this (now lost) technology known as an opening window!!!

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    4. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by jonbrewer · · Score: 2

      Do we all have compact fluorescent lights in our houses? Or some other type of energy efficient lighting? -check-

      Do we have proper insulation in the walls? It's surprising that many houses do not. -check-

      How about a fuel cell electricity generator that runs off natural gas? -um... what?-

      Or maybe even something as simple as kitchen cabinets that are big enough, and not made from particle board? -check-

      Cat 5 in the walls? -check-

      Front door security camera, with a truly secure way to access it from the Internet? -check-

      Stereo sound in every room? -whatever-

      A bathroom fan that actually will clear the stink out of the room? -my shit doesn't stink-

      I don't want the house of the future: I just want what's possible with the technology of TODAY.

      -Build it. It's not hard. Home Depot + $8k on the 'ole Amex, and I managed to make my 70 year old condo livable while inflating its value $60k.-

    5. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by marhar · · Score: 2
      This makes it pretty obvious why such homes will be hard to design/promote. Many of my values (living space wise) seem to be at odds with yours (not that they are "right", but they are "right for me"). For example:

      Or maybe even something as simple as kitchen cabinets that are big enough, and not made from particle board?

      If you can afford it you need never see another piece of particle board in your life.

      Cat 5 in the walls?

      Wireless all the way... :-)

      Stereo sound in every room?

      Nope. I have a stereo in the living room. When I want to listen to music I sit on the couch and enjoy myself.

      A bathroom fan that actually will clear the stink out of the room?

      I don't have fans... I prefer windows.

      On some of the others I agree with you, and on some I could care less about. But it's interesting to see what different people rank as priorities in their house.

    6. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by PD · · Score: 2

      How about a fuel cell electricity generator that runs off natural gas? -um... what?-

      To answer your question: fuel cells that use natural gas to produce electricity are much more efficient than a power plant burning natural gas to boil water to drive a turbine to generate electricity to send over miles of wire with some resistance.

      Generating the electricity locally with a fuel cell is more efficient and makes sense.

    7. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by PD · · Score: 2

      50 inch flat televisions also cost over $10,000 for even the cheapest one.

      What? You can find one cheaper than that? Oh hey! My catalog that I'm looking at is 2 years old! What do you know!

      Mass production makes things cheaper.

    8. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course this depends on the efficiency of the fuel cell. If I somehow made a fuel cell that converts 5% of the chemical energy into electrical work and 95% into heat, then it would not be very useful.

      But if people succeed in making reusable fuel cells that are nearly as efficient as batteries, then they will be a wonderful new means of power distribution.

      Other than efficiency, the other big concern is what the maximum power output for a reasonably sized unit is.

    9. Re:Start with the easy stuff first by El · · Score: 2

      Mass production of electronics makes them cheaper. Last I heard, the major expense in a fuel cell generator was the platinum catalyst, and mass production isn't going to make platinum any cheaper. In fact, quite the opposite: the more fuel cell generators are made, the more expensive platinum will become.

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  14. Open Source Career Opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Sir:

    I represent a large corporation in the telecommunications sector and came across your resume on Slashdot. I would be interested in setting up a meeting to discuss a possible employment opportunity. Please visit our website to find out more details on the position (job code 360-p). We look forward to hearing from you.

    Sincerely,
    G. Oates
    GBH Ltd.

  15. Open-sourced sex? by gatesh8r · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hell, if I can get it through the GPL and I can have it be from a woman... :-D

    --
    Karma whorin' since 1999
  16. Free housing? by olman · · Score: 2

    Oh, I can just see it. Housing wants to be FREE! When you think about it, free housing is just as sensible idea as free software.

    1. Re:Free housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that some people in the real world actually care about free housing. Easy mistake to make.

    2. Re:Free housing? by Tetsujin28 · · Score: 2
      Oh, I can just see it. Housing wants to be FREE! When you think about it, free housing is just as sensible idea as free software.

      Let's see...When I buy or build a house, I don't want some "vendor" to insist on a restrictive license telling me what I can and can't do with my house. And I'd like to be able to help my friends build similar houses, if they want them.

      Yes, this kind of "free" housing sounds very much like "free" software, and I'm all for it.

      --
      - - - -
      The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
    3. Re:Free housing? by jonbrewer · · Score: 2

      Let's see...When I buy or build a house, I don't want some "vendor" to insist on a restrictive license telling me what I can and can't do with my house. And I'd like to be able to help my friends build similar houses, if they want them.

      Don't find a home anywhere in America... state and local governments tend to have very restrictive laws about what you can and can't do with your house, and also laws about helping people build thier own houses, unless you've paid your registration and union dues...

    4. Re:Free housing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The replication of housing consumes large quantities of naturally scarce resources, above and beyond the initial investment in design. The replication of software does not.

      The analogy to Free Software or Open Source Software would be Free Building Plans / Models and Open Source Building Plans / Models.

    5. Re:Free housing? by Tetsujin28 · · Score: 2
      Don't find a home anywhere in America... state and local governments tend to have very restrictive laws about what you can and can't do with your house, and also laws about helping people build thier own houses, unless you've paid your registration and union dues...

      Sure, and there are laws about what I can and can't do with my software -- copyright laws, for example. But this isn't the same thing as hiring a carpenter to work on a house, and have him place restrictions on what I can do with the house long after he's gotten his money and gone home.

      And believe it or not, there are places in the U.S. where a bunch of people can build a house without union interference.

      --
      - - - -
      The real Tetsujin 28 is a giant robot.
  17. prefabbed housing by cowscows · · Score: 3, Interesting
    We've already got prefabbed housing. That's pretty much what suburbia is. I guess people in general seem to like it, since it's continuing to grow at insane rates, despite its numerous problems.

    The common suburban development consists of a few basic floor plans and personal customization involving the selection of a few of the details from a list in a catalog. What this article is suggesting seems to me to be an attempt to use technology to make more things customizable, but it isn't going to solve a lot of the big problems.

    Architects tend to not like suburban development. The very idea of taking a prefabbed structure and replicating it in multiple places goes against one of the cornerstones of good architecture, which is responsiveness to the environment. Simple things like building orientation can have huge effects on the design. The thought of even spinning a building around on its site would be attrocioius to an architect concerned with energy efficiency, or sustainable design. I'm not sure what sort of technologies they were implying when they said they could manage different climates with one design. It seems like the wrong kind of problem to throw technology at. Good design would be a much cheaper and better solution to a lot of these problems. There are generations upon generations of buildings which had to deal with these problems before things like electricity. Technology caused us to forget the lessons learned there. Piling on more technology might not be the best answer.

    I don't think many architects dream of some sort of perfect pre-fabbed house design that will solve all of our problems. I don't think they'd really want it anyways. It's hard enough making money in the profession as it is.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    1. Re:prefabbed housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The smarter architects have figured out that pre-fab and pre-designed housing is the road to riches, actually.

      By designing a few floorplans that are relatively functional, he can team up with land developers and provide "custom" homes to suburbanites looking for their own piece of the American pie. There's lots of money to be made selling mediocre products to excited 30 year olds.

    2. Re:prefabbed housing by cowscows · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's the mildly pessimisstic (but probably more realistic) way to go about it. But I don't think it's a great solution in any sense other than monetary, or an entirely sustainable way to develop.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    3. Re:prefabbed housing by SN74S181 · · Score: 1
      Architects tend to not like suburban development. The very idea of taking a prefabbed structure and replicating it in multiple places goes against one of the cornerstones of good architecture, which is...


      bzaaat! .... which is, individually billable blueprints.

    4. Re:prefabbed housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've already got prefabbed housing.

      Sure, but it's proprietary. People are spending money on IP that may have a free alternative.

      That's pretty much what suburbia is.


      No. Suburbia is a mix of expensive custom houses, cookie cutter houses, prefab houses, condos, apartment buildings, and mobile home parks. I don't see any reason why Open Source cannot be applied to any of those.

      The common suburban development consists of a few basic floor plans and personal customization involving the selection of a few of the details from a list in a catalog. What this article is suggesting seems to me to be an attempt to use technology to make more things customizable, but it isn't going to solve a lot of the big problems.


      "More customizable" is a good thing. Nobody's saying that it's a panacea.

      Architects tend to not like suburban development.

      So what?

      The very idea of taking a prefabbed structure and replicating it in multiple places goes against one of the cornerstones of good architecture, which is responsiveness to the environment. Simple things like building orientation can have huge effects on the design. The thought of even spinning a building around on its site would be attrocioius to an architect concerned with energy efficiency, or sustainable design.

      So pick a shape that fits, point it in the right direction, and give it the appropriate cladding.

      I'm not sure what sort of technologies they were implying when they said they could manage different climates with one design. It seems like the wrong kind of problem to throw technology at.


      In New England, and many other areas, houses are routinely designed to deal with large climate changes. I'm sure there will be special considerations for houses in extreme settings.

      Good design would be a much cheaper and better solution to a lot of these problems. There are generations upon generations of buildings which had to deal with these problems before things like electricity. Technology caused us to forget the lessons learned there. Piling on more technology might not be the best answer.

      Just because it wasn't based on electricity doesn't mean it wasn't based on technology. MMMM, fire good. Keep cave warm.

      I don't think many architects dream of some sort of perfect pre-fabbed house design that will solve all of our problems.


      No, they probably aspire to design something elegant like Wright's Falling Water house. The problem with that house was that it was over-designed, and under-engineered. It was becoming "House Falling in Water".

      I don't think they'd really want it anyways. It's hard enough making money in the profession as it is.


      And that's why nobody will ever waste their time making an Open Source Unix-like kernel ;-) Building materials suppliers could easily afford to offer house plans as a way of adding value to their product.

    5. Re:prefabbed housing by w3woody · · Score: 2

      Sure, but it's proprietary. People are spending money on IP that may have a free alternative.

      What's expensive about a house is not the Intellectual Property of the house design--which goes for about $2/sqft. What's expensive is the cost of construction--which goes for about $80-$100/sqft. And one of the largest factors in that construction cost is the profit margin to the building contractor--which, for a 2000 sqft house, can be anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000--or rather, from $10 to $25/sqft.

      Even if you reduce the IP cost of a house to 0, you will not significantly alter the price of the overall house. In fact, given that many architects work in conjunction with the building contractor, the IP cost could easily be absorbed by the building contractor.

      In short, building houses is not like building software.

  18. Horses for courses by 1984 · · Score: 2
    You know, I'd rather live in the Cathedral than the Bazaar when it comes down to it.

    Might be cool, but I wouldn't want to bring my kids up in a place like this: Kowloon's Walled City.

    1. Re:Horses for courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Granted, the vermin that run rampant in the bazaar are pretty annoying, but it can't be much worse than having those fucking bells ringing at 5:00am every day.

    2. Re:Horses for courses by ElectricRook · · Score: 1

      Not me... In the Cathedral, sit where you are told. In the Bazaar, go where you like.

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  19. Bruce Sterling's Distraction by sterno · · Score: 2

    If you want an idea of how this concept could come together in the future, read "Distraction" by Bruce Sterling. It's only an underlying part of the environment that the book happens in, but there's some really cool stuff about distributed building construction.

    Basically the way it works in the book is that each component of the building is labeled with little electronic tags. A computer system knows how each part needs to fit and so it instructs each person on what piece to put where. It's designed such that somebody with no construction skills can build most of a building without expert assistance.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  20. DMCA violation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, open source housing requires vulnerability disclosure to work. If you live in one of these houses, you may find yourself homeless next day because someone discloses how its security can be compromised.

  21. Proven/Useable Home Designs with Character? by sleeeper · · Score: 1
    If I can put together a useable, attractive home using "standard components" via a webiste (i.e., Dell) that look like a classic basic craftsman era home, I'm all for it. But given how ugly new homes are, I have doubt MIT will come up with anything that is worthwhile.

    It may be possible, because their are design patterns/proportions that they understood in the past (and some understand now) when building a home. But the idea that you can just tack on a kitchen willy nilly has resulted in the mass of ugly, community-destroying garage-scapes we have today.

  22. "One Ideology" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then it better damn well be mine.

  23. 1984 by CustomDesigned · · Score: 2
    One argument fueling the project is that a smart home equipped with sensing networks could help avert the crisis looming over America's overworked health-care system.

    the heart of House-n is a chassis with an "infill" of cheap sensing devices like LEDs, speakers, displays, automatic lighting, heat sensors, and miniature cameras that can be plugged in at any point and upgraded on the fly.

    You place a videoconference call that follows you up the stairs (projected on the walls) and then decide to exercise: a table retracts, a wall panel moves, and a life-size image of your favorite aerobics instructor appears.

    ... All integrated with the Total Information Awareness system for the utmost in security.

    1. Re:1984 by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · · Score: 2
      a table retracts, a wall panel moves, and a life-size image of your favorite aerobics instructor appears.


      Asia Carrera?
      Oh, wait.
      --
      Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
  24. Not new by r_j_prahad · · Score: 1, Troll

    We have a large community of open-source housing here. Every few months though, the neighbors start to complain, and then the city makes them pack up the tents and fold up the cardboard boxes and move underneath a different bridge to stay out of the rain. No big deal, we got lots of bridges to keep moving them to.

    Shantytown's much smaller now than it used to be, I think maybe they're all wintering in Arizona? In their time-share vacation boxes....

    1. Re:Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure that isn't open-source developer housing? The tents and cardboard are a dead giveaway.

  25. How about P2P Girlfriends! by RatBastard · · Score: 3, Funny

    How about P2P Girlfriends?

    --
    Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  26. Bottom Quote by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 2
    America works less, when you say "Union Yes!"

    Did anyone else notice the irony in this quote from the bottom of the page and a story about new construction?

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
  27. Bathroom fans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bathroom fans are to remove excess moisture from the air, not to remove stink. Without the ventilation provided by a good fan, you would end up with much more severe problems than shit-smelling bathrooms. You'd get mold and mildew and all the problems that go along with that.

  28. Modular housing by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think modular housing would be really cool, especially if I could move the walls and windows.

    I thought you might be able to come close in a loft-type space with "walls" that were similar to cubicle walls, but mounted on hidden casters. The walls would be of a couple of varying widths (1/3, 2/3, full width), heights (1/2, full) and a doorway module (1/3 to 2/3 width, accomodate varying door styles -- normal, double, swinging, etc). There's a whole laundry list of specialty modules -- closets, etc.

    Power would be a problem as your floorplans would have to accomodate whatever your physical space's power plan was, but would be eased by having the walls pre-wired for power and daisy chainable, as well as having maybe a good grid of floor jacks.

    Plumbing and gas are the big obstacles, since any real modularity would require you to move as needed the kitchen and bathrooms. The kitchen is half easy -- go with electric appliances and come up with some modular cabinets that can be removed/inserted into some caster-mounted work surfaces following the 1/3, 2/3, full width wall rules. Water supply and sewage/drainage are the real challenges, with the only "solution" to movability being supply water coming from overhead. Sewer and drain water *might* be something you could pump out overhead as well.

    You could go "down" if you wanted, but in a loft space you generally can't dig into the floor. A false floor would solve this (3ft raised ala data centers).

    With a big enough space you could really do some interesting floor plans and traffic flows. There's little reason a house couldn't be done the same way, and having control of the entire building might even solve some of the plumbing challenges by allowing you to go "down" more easily, by putting preset sewage and water lines in the floor for the modules that need them.

    It's not "real" architecture, but it would be really cool space planning. "Re-arrange the furniture? I'm gonna re-arrange the *house*!" Having just spent 40 some hours re-arranging my home office, though, I wonder how often I'd really feel like moving around the entire contents of my house. Maybe if everything was on casters and one level...

    1. Re:Modular housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Movable walls never work. You'd have to move all your belongs, then move all the walls. Nobody would bother.

      A lot of people think "hey, if I need more space I can just move this wall out" or something, but then of course you'd be making some OTHER room smaller. That's why movable walls in offices are hardly ever moved.

      It's better to have a well-designed home (good designs for homes have been made for hundreds of years) or an office with a variety of existing spaces.

    2. Re:Modular housing by Bishop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What you are really saying is that a modular house wouldn't work for you. Because you wouldn't bother to rearange it. All you have to do is watch a couple of interior design shows to see lots of poeple who would reconfigure their home on a semi regular basis.

      I will argue the statement: "good designs for homes have been made for hundreds of years". House design and construction has changed radically in just the past 100 years with indoor plumbing, modern heating/cooling, insulation, and lighting. I will agree that in hot climats some of the time perfected design features beat many modern building practices. However how we live in, and use our homes has changed significantly. (Note that these observations are based on my North American biases.)

      I take particular exception to the verbe "made." While good designs may exist I have yet to find any good houses actually being made. Any new house built in my area is typically poorly constructed, and based on ill concieved plans "designed" to include a list of marketing features that sound good on paper. Above all the houses are universally ugly, monotone, near identical behemouths. You will be hard pressed to convince me that your North American city is any better. I did a bit of travelling this fall and saw the same cookie cutter houses everywhere I went.

      I fear that the only way I will ever see a well designed home is to pursue a degree in architechture and design said home myself. (Don't think for a moment that I haven't seriously considered the idea.)

    3. Re:Modular housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think your modular ass would be really cool, especially if I could slide the cheeks up and down.

      I thought you might be able to come on over to my loft space in your overalls. THere's a couple of varying widths and a whole laundry list of speciatly modules.

      Power would be a problem as your pants would be on the floor and would have to accomodate your physical power plant, but you could be eased out of the overalls and into daisy chains, as well as maybe a good grid and floor jacks.

      Plumbing and gas are the big obstacles, since you would have to come into the kitchen or bathroom. The kitchen is half easy, come up, remove/insert full width wall rules.

      With a big enough space you could really do some interesting blows. Theres little reason a whole house could'nt be done the same way, and having control over the entire building might even resolve some issues by putting preset water lines into the modules that need them.

    4. Re:Modular housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are right- you would probably not actually move things around very much. even on casters and one floor--- maybe you would arrange things to me more comfortable fore the seasons when they change, but even that would be asking a lot.
      other than that, we are creatures of habit. a couch that changes into a bed and a dining table that also serves as your office are just about as modular as people need to be

  29. Re:What's next? MOD UP +5 FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    posting as AC to try to get your own post modded up is just lame.

  30. The pattern language book by astrashe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a pretty interesting architecture book called "The Timeless Way of Building" by a guy named Christopher Alexander. I read it because it's the book that introduced the idea of a pattern language, which inspired the talk of patterns in software design.

    One of the ideas of the book was that these modular buildings, where everything is the same, don't "live" in the way that many older buildings do. His argument is fairly complicated, and I'm not sure I've mastered it well enough to summarize it here, but it has a lot to do with the way things get put together, the process of building, and how it fits in with the community, the site, the culture, and the way human beings work.

    The "house n" page linked in the story has a quote from Le Corbusier, and Alexander makes a pretty good critique of his work, I think. It's kind of sterile.

    The basic point is that if you're approaching housing from a starting point of modular components, instead of from ideas about how buildings and open spaces affect how people live, if you go for modular housing because it can be mass produced, you're going to end up with a pretty soulless neighborhood.

    The best way to understand this, for me at least, is to think about the places you've been that struck you as being particularly nice, and to think about how those buildings and neighborhoods got put together.

    It's not necessarily a money thing -- I was in Duluth, of all places, a while ago, and the houses in the hills overlooking lake superior were all incredible. It was just a nice place to be. The houses weren't lavish or excessively luxurious, they just fit into the hill and into the neighborhood.

    I don't see how places like that could come into existence with these proposed methods.

    1. Re:The pattern language book by cowscows · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You've touched on what is one of the most important criticisms of modernist architecture, and could even be used against a lot of contemporary work. Buildings are too often not designed around the way people lived, but around abstract architectural ideas. Modernist architecture is sort of the poster child for this, where you get all these smooth continuous planes and very careful compositions that you see photographed empty, because as soon as you throw in some people or move some furniture around, it all ceases to work. Le Corbusier actually was very concerned about how people lived, but rather than just observing and reacting to them, he wanted to create a whole new way for people to organize their lives, and tried to invent architecture that would force certain patterns onto them. None of his ideas were really implemented at the scales that he proposed, so it's hard to say for sure that his ideas were all failures, but the sort of haphazard adoption of different things that he said has caused a lot of problems. And for better or for worse, his work has had an amazing amount of influence on architecture since his time.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    2. Re:The pattern language book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      yes that's an amazing book. It really is. I read it and was constantly amazed at how he uncovered exactly WHY modern urban planning sucks the life out of people. It even helped me pinpoint some things about my childhood that affected my development (when I was young we lived in a place with few children and I always played alone. this carried over to adulthood. In the book Alexander talks about the importance of children playing together and it struck me instantly .. if I have kids I'm going to make sure they are around other kids during their first few years.)

      Another idea Alexander has is: design the building on-site.. in other words, go to the site and walk around, put rocks or markers down where you want the rooms and walls to be. Don't worry about exact angles or dimensions. Build directly from this "design".

      Another idea: when you're on a site, put your buildings and sidewalks in the ugliest places. Duh! People always choose a lot with nice trees and grass and then they chop it all down. Leave the nice trees and grass, and build on the rocky ugly part! "Site Repair" he calls this pattern.

      There are so many amazing ideas in this book, I hope I get a chance someday to build my own house using Alexander's techniques.

      He basically advocates "egoless" design which unfortunately will never catch on with architects, who want to be recognized through their work, rather than designing buildings purely for the inhabitants. too bad.

    3. Re:The pattern language book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This type of designing process is fine for the Midwest or Northeast U.S. where earthquakes are few and far between, but on the west coast, a lot of foundation work is necessary to prevent your dream home from collapsing in the next big tremor.

      If you are going to dig a 10 foot deep hole in the property anyway, you might as well design the house and landscape the way you like and not restrict yourself to the pre-existing terrain.

    4. Re:The pattern language book by Raven1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Military Housing. Depressing, run down cookie cutter houses. Yeah, no.

    5. Re:The pattern language book by daviddennis · · Score: 2

      Alexander is a great writer. There is no question about this in my mind, and in fact I am looking forward to his new book which should be out in a few months.

      His general idea is that the house should have some of YOU in it, it should reflect the personality of its owner. Not its designer, but the poor sap who has to live in the thing.

      He has a lot of ideas that don't seem practical today. For instance, he says that we should have small, independent businesses instead of huge, big-box style stores. There's no question that he has a point; you'll have a much warmer and more personal world that way. At the same time, you won't be able to choose between 12 different brands of PCMCIA Ethernet cards; you might even have to order one instead of grabbing it off the shelf at Fry's. It seems to me that the US has unquestionably gone down on the side of the Fry's and the Wal-Mart, because people may protest them, but they'll wind up being customers anyway.

      There's no question in my mind that the world has turned colder and more sterile than it used to be, and yet the warmer world of yesteryear had its own problems. I think his books are valuable as ideas for shaping a different type of future. The main problem is that they imply a confusing mix of freedom to design as you wish, and centralized control to make sure you don't design something that's out of scale, such as a business with more than 10 employees. Since large enterprises seem to be essential for our society, it seems that his views are backward-looking wistful thinking.

      But they have inspired some other interesting books, such as 'The Not So Big House' series. I think Alexander has been very influential in the micro way (individual houses), but certainly he has not had the opportunity to reshape society in his image.

      Whether that's a relief or a real shame I will leave as an exercise for the reader.

      D

    6. Re:The pattern language book by cowscows · · Score: 2

      there are a fair number of 'egoless' architects. Unfortunately, they don't make any money. The profession is really a labor of love. If you want to make a decent amount of cash, you've got to be more flashy. The 'celebrity' architecture phenomena is the result of that. Just as many architects are bothered by that as buy into it, they're just out shouted by the loud buildings and designers.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    7. Re:The pattern language book by mieses · · Score: 1

      Le Corbusier's Villa Savoy is, for me, the most comfortable and 'nice' house i've ever been inside of.

      some people like tradition and nostalgia. other people are always trying to subvert it. you will never find a 'pattern language' that will not be ultimately subverted. our nature is to reinvent our cutlural forms. and architecure is primarily a cultural practice, not a scientific one.

  31. DONT CLICK ON LINK IN ABOVE POST!!!! GOATSE LINK!! by kingkade · · Score: 2

    a word of warning, for anyone who thought this ass-clown might have something funny to say: he doesn't he's just another angry loner with not one original thought in his tiny brain. just a sheep, your bus is leaving, you fuckstick.

  32. Already a reality... by mhazen · · Score: 1

    This is already a reality in many large cities. The technology is known as 'refrigerator boxes and duct tape'.

    --
    Rock is dead. Long live scissors and paper!
  33. Re:What's next? MOD UP +5 INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So true. user posting as AC trying to get his post modded up is truly lame. kudos to you sir.

  34. Re:What's next? MOD UP +5 FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    if you look at this post carefully, you can see these two above anonymous ppl are both the same person

  35. not such a good idea by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 2

    "Hey, how do I use the stove?"

    "RTFM, fscking noob!"

    BOOM!

  36. If Modular Contruction is... by osxuser-02 · · Score: 1

    the way of the future, then Alabama and Mississippi are on the cutting edge. We southerners have been developing and using modular homes for quite some time. As a matter of fact, I have a double-wide! Eat yer heart out, Bill Gates! You no longer have the home of the future!

    --

    I went to college for this?...

  37. Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by TooTrueTroubs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't we have enough sameness with those everything-looks-the-same villages, where entire suburbs are built to one of a small number of very similar plans?

    I value the uniqueness of my home, I enjoy the quirky nature of it's surroundings and in knowing that my apartment is very different from those around me. These are things which can't just be achieve by lighting and furniture - it's architecture.

    We're living in a pre-fab world where everything from music to cars are all starting to look and sound the same - do we want to do this to our dwellings? I value difference and individuality, thanks very much!

    1. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by NineNine · · Score: 1

      Dude, I was completely with you until you said "my apartment". The very word apartment is pretty disgusting to me... it screams, "I don't care where I live. I just need a generic box to keep the weather out, and the TV in." I find it hard to believe that anyone could value individuality living in an apartment.

    2. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      My apartment building has pretty unique units.

    3. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by NineNine · · Score: 1

      My apartment building has pretty unique units.

      You're still living in a "unit". I live in a house (that I designed). Big difference.

    4. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by TooTrueTroubs · · Score: 1

      My apartment is one of 6, erm, "flats"? "units"? (read - dwellings) in an extensively renovated 180 year old ex-embassy. You enter through the main huge cast-iron gates, go through a massive entrance hall and into the cobble-stone paved courtyard, which has been throughourly landscaped.

      My apartment is near the back of the courtyard, and all the apartments are entered via the courtyard.

      They've cunningly used the original brick work for feature-walls, it has polished hardwood floors and the bed-room is seperated from the main rooms via a wall of Japanese screens at a 45 degree angle.

      There's about 40 small, individually focusable downlights on dimmer switches.

      There's nothing gerenically boxy about it. ;)

    5. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by TooTrueTroubs · · Score: 1

      You know, I don't actually *want* to live in a house. There's just the one of me, and I never want to have to deal with maintaining a backyard. You do get some pretty unique architecture in the right kind of apartments.

    6. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      My apartment is one of 6, erm, "flats"? "units"? (read - dwellings) in an extensively renovated 180 year old ex-embassy. ...

      There's nothing gerenically boxy about it. ;)


      It'll never scale.

    7. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by NineNine · · Score: 1

      No backyard here, either. That's the beauty of owning your own house. You can do whatever the fuck you want.

    8. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      But the "unit" isn't a square box.

      No I didn't design it, but I'm not living here forever.

      I'm out and building my own next year.

      I'm in a block of four buildings, each "unit" is different from the other one, each "quarter" is different from the other, built between 1906 and 1924.

    9. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by TooTrueTroubs · · Score: 1
      Sorry, still getting used to this forum - I'll re-post what I should've replied to here initially:

      My apartment is one of 6, erm, "flats"? "units"? (read - dwellings) in an extensively renovated 180 year old ex-embassy. You enter through the main huge cast-iron gates, go through a massive entrance hall and into the cobble-stone paved courtyard, which has been throughourly landscaped.

      My apartment is near the back of the courtyard, and all the apartments are entered via the courtyard.

      They've cunningly used the original brick work for feature-walls, it has polished hardwood floors and the bed-room is seperated from the main rooms via a wall of Japanese screens at a 45 degree angle.

      There's about 40 small, individually focusable downlights on dimmer switches.

      There's nothing gerenically boxy about it. ;)

    10. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by NineNine · · Score: 1

      That sounds very nice... in the US, "apartment", even a "nice apartment" is generally one in a large building of thousands, or one in one of many building "units", each holding between 10-50 "apartments". They're all generally the same. Even "luxury" apartments are generally just white boxes inside with a few different layouts. Definitely not suited to living. Suitable for sleeping and watching TV, but not to living, in my opinion. From many years of working in IT, it seems to me that about 95% of all IT geeks live in some generic apartment since "life" is generally a few minutes while not in work, commuting, or sleeping when they get to play with their home computer (as opposed to the one at work). Sad life, really.

    11. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by TooTrueTroubs · · Score: 1
      I know what you mean. It's getting that way over here in Australia as well.

      I prefer not to have a computer in the house most of the time these days. Unless I've got some writing or music to work on, I just leave the laptop at work and get on with the business of have a life outside of work!

    12. Re:Aren't Off-The-Plan "Villages" enough? by stanmann · · Score: 1

      And you are going to live there forever? In my profession, I can expect to move frequently, so I concentrate on having the ability to modify and adjust the interior appearance of my "unit" When I retire, I will build "my house", but I'm not going to stress out over where I live in the interim. Too much hassle to "design" a new house every 3-5 years.

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  38. Dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shut the fuck up.

    If you want to live in the forest and eat grubs, suit yourself. Don't stand in the way of everyone else's progress.

  39. Re:DONT CLICK ON LINK IN ABOVE POST!!!! GOATSE LIN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi. Didn't you already post this message? first slashdot, now the users are reposting their own comments. pathetic.

  40. OFFTOPIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    where is the soviet troll?

  41. Nice, but... by core+plexus · · Score: 1

    ...where I live, it is just not practicle. I love reading about all these new ideas, but really, what I need is practicle, affordable housing. As it is, I am looking at cutting down a bunch of trees and assembling a log cabin out of it, in part because I can't bring myself to borrow a huge sum of money, and pay a bank 10% or more of that borrowed amount, just to build a stick and board house of someone elses ideas. I realise that there will be a large labor cost involved, but I will be more secure knowing that if I get on a bender or take off for a year and go to Tierra Del Fuego or whereever the bank won't come and move me out into the frozen earth. I guess what I need is a robot that can: cut the trees, strip the bark, plane the logs, score them, and maybe even set them up. Ahhh, dreams.

    1. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Log homes cost more than regular housing.

    2. Re:Nice, but... by core+plexus · · Score: 1

      Really? Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, that's right I already knew that. I stated as much in my post. I also stated (perhaps not clear enuf for some) that regardless, I'm going to do it my way, dammint!

  42. The real future of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you're wealthy
    Capsule Rooms

    1. Re:The real future of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capsules are almost the same cost to stay in as a love hotel. Better to stay in the love hotel and have a full-sized bed and personal jacuzzi and all the porn you can watch than some tiny bunk bed you share with 50 of your closest bum friends.

  43. Local building codes and restraint of trade by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In the US every locality has a series of local building codes. These are often (deliberately) incompatable with other locality's codes. The purpose is to protect the local building industry from statewide or even national competition.

    Until that nut is cracked, the rest of this stuff is just a pipe dream.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
    1. Re:Local building codes and restraint of trade by tomdarch · · Score: 2
      Bullshit. Non-standardized building codes are a pain in the ass, but they don't limit trade from one area to another, unless it's contractors from Stupidville trying to work somewhere else.

      I work in Chicago, where modern buildng codes were invented after the big fire. The idiosyncratic code here protects two things: First, it protects the jobs of the building permit reviewers and site inspectors. Second, there are elements of the code that make work for contractors/tradespeople. (e.g. PVC pipe is limited making more work for plumbers, and low-voltage cabling (telephone, CAT5) must be in conduit in commercial construction making for more work for electricians.)

      There may be some freaky hick town codes out there, but for the most part, competent contractors know about the differences between different towns' interpretations and 'tweaks'. It's a bit like dealing with a variety of Linux distros.

      That said, Chicago claims to be moving towards the "International Building Code" The IBC isn't international at all (I don't know if it has any metric equivalents?), but is the current update to the US-centric BOCA model code.

      While we're on the topic of codes, the BOCA model sucks. It's free to adopt as a town, but you have to pay to get a copy of the actual code. There was a /. article a while ago (can't find it) about a guy who dealt with this by putting the code on the web, arguing that it's now a law and can't be copyrighted. It's tough to fight the building inspector when you have to spend us$200 to get a copy of the code that he's referencing. But inspectors like being questioned as much as cops do.

    2. Re:Local building codes and restraint of trade by w3woody · · Score: 2

      Um, two points.

      First, most building codes are derived from a set of standard building codes, the Uniform Building Codes (or UBCs, for short), and so really do not vary much from location to location. The only differences between different codes in different regions have to do with local neighborhood variations: setbacks from the property line, maximum hight restrictions, lot coverage, and the like.

      Second, most building codes specify acceptable construction minimums, such as the minimum acceptable load-bearing beams to use to support a floor, and the like. It's impossible to create "incompatable" codes for things like load-bearing beams--one locality isn't going to rule out a 4x12 when it calls for a minimum 4x8, for example; at worse, the other locality may want you to use a 4x12 over the 4x8. But you will never fail plan check because you used too large a supporting member, too much insulation, or created an overly energy-efficient building.

      So while there are a number of things local municipalities do to protect the local building industry (such as a lack of standards for submitting plans to plan check, or the requirement that plans be locally submitted--which require that at least one guy be local to where the house is being built), screwing with the UBCs is not one of them.

    3. Re:Local building codes and restraint of trade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're full of shit. There is no significant difference between codes. Well, nothing that would take more than a high-school education and a few hours to decipher at least. Codes are derived from national recommendations, and as such, they don't really vary a whole bunch. They are adjusted regionally, for temperature, wind, rain, humidity, and flood factors. But what you'll find in adjacent counties or even states will not vary much. If two neighboring states have very similar requirements then you will find their codes are also very similar.

    4. Re:Local building codes and restraint of trade by Insightfill · · Score: 1

      In some cases, the codes are also designed to prevent certain types of construction from going in, for no obvious reason other than to "preserve the neighborhood".

      In one older suburb of the Chicago area, there's a rule that says that electrical outlets, even the GF kind, can't be less than six feet from a tub. Now, a bathroom without an outlet isn't that useful, but it limits your construction to bathrooms larger than six feet. The end result and goal is to keep small bathrooms, thus keep small houses and housing units out, and property values up. Safety is touted, but the intent and result are clear. NIMBY and property values.

      In my old neighborhood, they wanted me to get a building permit and two inspector visits (before and after) in order to replace my old toilet. Paid plumbing work could only be done by those plumbers licensed by/in the town. The few plumbers were all intensely rude, late, etc. and could afford it, since there was essentially no recourse or alternative; one yelled at my wife for five minutes when she simply asked "where is the plumber?" The promised goal may have been to ensure that the work done on the property was done to the town spec. by someone who knows it, but the end result was a caste/guild system beyond compare.

      (Afternote: I then went ahead and had two new bathrooms completely torn out and redone, and all non-code plumbing replaced with copper without a permit by an ace and artist for less money than it would have cost to do it "by the book". Yeah, the intent may have been "solid/safe workmanship" and home values, but the result was one ticked-off homeowner who got out of there and went to a town where I got a nicer house, twice-as-large house for less than I sold the old one. And I completely let any prospective homeowner know the town's name.)

  44. What's next? by Nathdot · · Score: 2

    Open-sourced software...
    Open-sourced Housing...

    What's next?:

    Open-sourced Government?...

    Well the russians used to have something a little like that, going back a bit, in the past and all, and we liked to call them communists. In fact we liked to call them "pinko bastards" but that's neither here nor there.

    Simply put a yen for open-sourcing is a yen for communism. Pinko bastards!

    (If you can't spot a joke.. then... well.. reply, it'll be funny to watch :)

  45. Accurracy, Confusion, and Quality by maggard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    First off collaborative work does not make it "Open Source" however good a headline that makes (/. down on pageviews again?)

    Second the article confuses two separate issues - construction and fittings. Construction is probably the harder of the two as the trades are resistant to change as are also insurers, building codes, and other consumers. There are literally hundreds of proposals and dozens of demonstration buildings out there showing off some "revolutionary" construction technique or another out there. Few have any success as individuals and society are (not suprisingly) just plain conservative when it comes to these things.

    The flip side is the fittings. MS is on their umpteenth iteration of their "Smart Home", the electronic message-board 'fridge is a cliche, "wiring" one's home means something different to everybody and and all are likely to become obsolete in a decade anyway. Frankly the smartest investment is running conduit with room for more cables wherever possible and realizing one won't see much back on it in resale value. Most of the future services are only of interest to the tech-obsessed anyway or require complicated/expensive retrofit kluges to already pretty good systems.

    Lastly the article is just plain crappy. Aside from being badly written it is poorly researched. For example their home listings is grossly incomplete and even then wrong (Disney's Monsanto home was not torn down in '67, it lasted much longer then that.) A term paper from any architecture student would be better then what's been passed of there.

    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
  46. Tables that remind us to eat... by Wampus+Aurelius · · Score: 1

    ...walls that tell us to take medicine, furniture and wall panels that move aside automatically...

    How about putting cute little programs in our word processing software that pop up and help us, say, write a letter or a resume? Or a doohickey on our TVs that figure out what kind of shows we like and record similar ones? Or...

    Seems like these devices that are supposed to make life easier end up pissing people off. I'll take the old, non-interactive home for now.

  47. You'd never get me to live in one of those... (OT) by Embedded+Geek · · Score: 2

    "If builders built houses the way programmers built programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization" - Gerald Weinberg

    --

    "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."

  48. Fuck Modular by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yep, I say screw a modular/manufactured home.

    Why?

    Because the shit that goes into the construction of a modular mass-produced home is nasty.

    When they burn or catch fire the least bit, they produce toxic smokes and serious greenhouse gases.

    It's much simpler, cheaper and more environmental to use the by-products of farming as a building material or to use natural substances when you can.

    Like Strawbales or adobe.

    "Straw as a building material excels in the areas of
    cost-effectiveness and energy efficiency. If used to replace the more traditional wall-building system of brick and block, it can present savings of around £10,000 on a normal 3 bedroomed house. Of interest to the home owner is the huge reduction in heating costs once the house is occupied, due to the super insulation of the walls. Here the potential savings are up to 75%
    compared to a conventional modern house. Building
    regulations are changing next year (2002), bringing the allowable U-value of domestic external walls down to either 0.35 or 0.25 (the European Union would like to see 0.25) which is challenging the whole industry to meet these requirements. A typical bale of straw has a U-value of 0.13 - significantly better thermal performance than will be required."

    "Over 50% of all greenhouse gases are produced by the construction industry and the transportation associated with it. If the 4 million tonnes of surplus straw in the UK was baled and used for local building, we could build at least 450,000 houses of 150m2 per year.That's almost half a million super-insulated homes, made with a material that takes carbon dioxide and makes it into oxygen during its life cycle. Coupled with vastly reduced heating requirements, thereby further reducing carbon dioxide emission (greenhouse gas) from the burning of fossil fuels."

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1 &q =strawbaleguide.pdf&btnG=Google+Search

    I'm building strawbale in 2003 or 2004.

    1. Re:Fuck Modular by cjsnell · · Score: 2

      When they burn or catch fire the least bit, they produce toxic smokes and serious greenhouse gases.

      As opposed to straw, which simply burns down! God forbid somebody knocks a candle over in your house.

      Adobe--maybe--but I'm not buying the strawbale idea. Your sales pitch sounds waaay too much like those hippies selling geodesic domes in the 70s.

      Faaaaar out!

    2. Re:Fuck Modular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I'm building strawbale in 2003 or 2004.


      Fuck straw houses. I'm building a house of sticks!

    3. Re:Fuck Modular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Little pig, little pig, let me in!

    4. Re:Fuck Modular by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      A straw house up to the earthquake codes would require as much lumber as my house (which is mostly stucco, sheetrock and concrete anyway)

    5. Re:Fuck Modular by jonbrewer · · Score: 2

      Adobe--maybe--but I'm not buying the strawbale idea.

      I think the idea with straw bales is that you cover them inside and out with concrete stucco or adobe. Thus you have fireproof and vermin-free structures. :-)

  49. EWWWW gag me with a spoon! by Meowharishi · · Score: 0

    "modular component based housing"??? Could anything sound scarier than "Track Development"?

    Sounds extremely terribly ugly and disgusting. Please keep this sort of thing to yourselves way out in the 'burbs.

    Thanks

    --
    mje0w!!!1!
  50. The house compiler by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1

    Architects use 3D CAD programs to design houses, but these tools are basically merely drafting tools and a lot of time consuming work has to be done to translate the design into blueprints and materials lists. Besides which, the CAD tools don't understand esthetic relationships. I've always wondered why no one has yet developed a 'house compiler', which would make it a lot easier to design homes. Just as silicon compilers allow someone to specify a chip design, and then the compiler does the hard low-level detail work, or code compilers take HLL code and create the low-level instructions, a house compiler would take 3D design ideas and physical specs and output a complete, checked, blueprint. An object-oriented house compiler could take prebuilt objects and put them together to form a house, checking for correctness of module interfaces (i.e., this pipe goes through a wall, must reroute it, etc.). Anyone at MIT want to get me a grant to do this?

  51. I want my house... by Squintfield · · Score: 1

    to be just like the Jetson's.

  52. ruminations by Aniquel · · Score: 2

    I was a carpenter in a previous life. I helped build the house I'm living in now. I *like* the fact that my house was crafted not by the sharing of blueprints and computer-aided customization, but by real (as opposed to fake) people working on-site, making adjustments as construction progressed. A message to the OSBA: Don't take craftmanship out of building.

  53. Probably ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because you already posted this, asshole.

  54. FSF is not really free (as in freedom)! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are against prostitution.

  55. Re:Dead by PaybackCS · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Haha.. That's one of the funniest things I've read all day.

    Thanks for the laugh.

  56. Sure does sound like OSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I agree, and I couldn't imagine anything that sounds more like the selfish, immature, myopic OSS mentality than this guy who merely lives in your house without taking anything.

    Oh, that wasn't your point, was it?

  57. Burning by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    If you think strawbale "simply burn" down, then you've not done too much research on it.

    Typically, you stucco or adobe the walls, which make them quite fire-resistant.

    1. Re:Burning by Raven1 · · Score: 1

      I'll huff and I'll puff ... Think Tornado. I'll stick with a real house, not one that will naturally degrade.

    2. Re:Burning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Domes use about 1/3 less wood than a normal house, are about as structurally sound as you can build, and have no interior partitions so you can customize them to your heart's consent.

      Of course, you sould as if you'd be happy in your suburban cookie cutter. Enjoy your soulless, wasteful neighborhood.

      I would love to see the day when a subdivision is built by the people who live there, together. Windmills, geodesic domes, parks, and wild areas can all be meshed together by thoughtful, caring people.

      Of course, thoughtful, caring people don't chair most city councils. They are usually packed by real estate people or their friends. Cities want tax base, never forget. Not affordable, eco-friendly housing.

    3. Re:Burning by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      There are naturally degrading strawbale houses in Nebraska from the 1890s that are still up.

      In the text of that PDF it talks about that.

      "We have been able to draw on the rich knowledge of the past, using ideas which have been tried and tested over centuries. In many respects, the requirements of strawbale buildings are essentially the same as traditional cob (earth) buildings. They have high plinth walls, self-draining foundations, and large overhangs to the roof. They are also constructed of breathable materials and must not be waterproofed (although they must be weatherproofed).There are currently over 100,000 cob houses of 200-500 years old still inhabited in the UK."

      "How long will it last?
      No one can completely answer this question because the first strawbale house was built only about 130 years ago. In the USA there are about a dozen houses nearing 100 years old that are still inhabited and showing no problems. They have an increasing stock of houses built since 1980 that are also surviving with no problems. Here in the UK, we started building 7 years ago. As with any other technique of house building, if your straw bale house is built with a good design, with quality work and is properly maintained throughout its life, there is no reason why it should not last at least 100 years.

      Isn't it a fire risk?
      No. It may seem strange, but when you stack bales up in a wall and plaster them either side, the density of the bales is such that there isn't enough air inside the bales for them to burn. It's like trying to burn a telephone directory loose pages burn easily, but the whole book won't catch fire. Straw bale walls have passed all the fire tests they have been subjected to in the USA and Canada. Despite the bales themselves not being a risk, if you plaster any wall with a half inch of plaster, it gives sufficient fire protection to satisfy building regulations."

  58. 3 reasons why it WON'T work by krezreb · · Score: 0

    1. The article mentions that the home building industry is 'conservative and clinging to tradition.' Well, there's a reason for that, first off, traditional building materials (wood, brick, stone, glass) are traditional because they seem to have a certain 'life' to them, whereas skyscrapers and cubicles tend to lack that life. Christopher Alexander, an architect and expert on 'seeing the life in material objects'has written books and has a website (http://www.patternlanguage.com.)

    2. Also, the article says that this new technology will give more power to the architect to design house skins and 'engines.' BULLSH1T! An architect's job is already to design the thing. This article makes it seem like what people will actually do is order the house off of a website and it will be shipped to a location, cutting out the architect completely, replacing him/ her, in fact.

    3. The whole premise of making 'customizable' homes has been around since, well, homes WERE BEING BUILT. The House-n is trying to standardize and upgrade the technology in the house. Great, no prob, easy wireless for me. But what house-n is forgetting is the importance of the house's eventual location. Half of a house's job is, afterall, to integrate well with its surroundings. whenever I look at a row of prefabbed suburban houses, I can tell that they were not built with the location in mind, they were designed to be easy to manufacture, and cheap, at the expense of looking unique, original, and full of life.

    just my 300 Yen, err, $0.02

  59. Here's the guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    True. Exclusive image of the guy. He could only be identified by a three letter recursive acronym written to the walls of all houses he has lived.

  60. Bank Loans (Re:Local building codes...) by migurski · · Score: 1

    There is also the issue of bank loans to pay for new homes - it's my understanding that many banks are generally quite unwilling to lend money for, say, a dome-home or other unusual construction because they are perceived as "unsellable."

  61. Don't forget the corruption in the housing trades by btempleton · · Score: 2

    The housing industry is one of the world's largest, and the people who run it like that homes cost so much, the money is going to them.

    Normally competition would stop this but somehow it doesn't. It's too regionalized. It can cost $500K to build a house on a lot in silicon valley when you could get the whole house and land for $250K elsewhere. Makes no sense but it happens.

    Part of the reason is corruption, a strong and nasty resistence to something that would end the gravy train.

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  62. Ok, you're a complete moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many houses have you built exactly?

  63. the plans, the plans! by spazoid12 · · Score: 1

    I'd be happy to even just see GnuLicensed blueprints for home designs...some nice web site repository. Hmm, maybe it exists? Anyways, the plans aren't the horribly expensive part. If only the local governments would except something other than cold cash...maybe PostcardWare or something?

  64. Holy shit! by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2

    Holy shit, you'd better watch out! The New Digital Media Entirely Outrageous Paradigm Police will be hot on your trail, now that you've uncovered their simple yet dastardly plan to cram more and more expensive, breakable, fault-intolerant electronic crap into previously reliable objects that really, really don't need it.

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  65. remember last summer and the summer before? by zogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    --remember the drought this year and last year, and how huge humongous areas of the US west burnt down? I have no idea how many millions and millions of trees lost to fire. Too bad they couldn't have been sanely and selectably logged, turned into lumber for homes and furniture. Instead we got a zillion tons of particulate soot, CO2 and etc, plus, the lost homes and businesses-humans hopes and dreams-lost work and lastly the firefighters who lost their lives. Remember the firefighters-all young people, pretty new to firefighting, who burnt alive because the government wouldn't allow water to be taken from a stream because of some minnows, until it was too late?

    Anyway, there's one source of housing going begging, all so that primarily well meaning and well intenioned but sorta naieve city people can "feel good" about the environment. "Feel good"-itis causes as much famine and lack of affordable housing as anything else. Both extremes are blatantly flawed here, massive rape styled clear cutting is wrong-and so is this opposite of severely restricting normal human activities in a rural setting. Farming, ranching, logging, mining-all are necessary human activites. They provide goods-food, building materials, the raw materials from which everything is made. You can't have it both ways, you can't have a world with "enough" for all unless it's "allowed" to do those things necessary to bring it about.

    1. Re:remember last summer and the summer before? by ElectricRook · · Score: 1

      Actually, the west (Sierra Nevada) is supposed to burn. Before fire fighting, the spring lightning fires burned until the fall rains. There were ~20 trees per acre, not the >300 per acre we have today.

      With 20 trees/ac. fires don't jump to healthy trees. Only diseased/down or small trees burn with the shrubs and grass. With >300 trees/ac. grass and shrubs are shaded out. Very few animals eat pine trees. They need the "now" sparse grass and shrubs. We need more fires, but with a "re-introduction plan".

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
  66. grammar whine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Houses built via interactive design stategies and mass-cutomization vs. single-purpose structures driven by one ideology.

    *****

    That's not a complete sentence, its a clause. Have we forgotten our grade two grammar, people?

  67. Moshe Safdie and Habitat is one great concept by crovira · · Score: 2

    Check out http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Habitat_67 .html

    for some ideas of how integrated and modular construction can be at the same time.

    I lived in Montreal at the time and it was a great idea that showed great promise. The structures even looked good (still do on Montreal's rejuvenated harbor) as well as being easy to build, cheap in volume and the interlocking of units where part of the roof of one unit is the patio of some unit on the level above creates a surprisingly livable architecture.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  68. do you mean like.... by simpl3x · · Score: 2

    japanese architecture, or many east asian forms of architecture, or many ethnic european forms of housing... good modular architecture is not obviously modular. this would be like saying, i want custom code. why is your problem so unique that it deserves a unique solution?

    we all want something unique, which winds up being unlivable. christopher alexander (http://www.math.utsa.edu/sphere/salingar/Chris.te xt.html) spent most of his career talking about the validity of non-professional architecture. his books, a pattern languge, have had far reaching effects on many professions including computer science.

  69. The problem of our epoch??? huh??? by marhar · · Score: 2
    The first page of their website says "The problem of our epoch is the problem of the electronically mediated house." Elsewhere they say "Low-cost sensing, PDAs, cell phones, GPS, computational story editing tools, and intelligent building components begin to provide the infra-structure required to present urban narratives that are tailored to the location, activity, and interests of individuals."



    Somehow I think this is going to end up as one of those interesting topics that nobody will remember in a year or two, coz most people just don't care about PDAs and cellphone presenting "urban narratives" of their life.


    And as far as "the problem of our epoch" I am sure we can all think of things of more concern than integrating our GPS with intelligent building components. :-/ But I'll be satisfied if they come up with something as interesting as lego mindstorms out of the project.

  70. It's been done before... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Frank Lloyd Wright tried this with his modular "Usonian" homes.

    http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CLASS/am483_95/proje ct s/wright/uson.html

    Cool homes, but feature creep increased costs somewhat. But the modularity allowed reuse of design elements in many homes while still allowing customization.

    Also, in many cases furniture was built in as well, reducing total ownership costs.

  71. No one like fluorescent lights. by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2

    The law says we must have them, so we just install extra incandescent bulbs on another switch and never use the fluorescent lighting. Lights should not make noise.

  72. Read Wolfe's "Bauhaus to Our House" by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1
    If you like the housing in places like Japan, or anywhere else modernist dogma has taken root, please read Wolfe's classic evisceration of the modernist ideal in architecture.

    The notion that there is "great housing for the people" is nonsense. Its just a way of ramming the worst modern ideals in architecture down socety's collective throat.

    1. Re:Read Wolfe's "Bauhaus to Our House" by Stoptional · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its just a way of ramming the worst modern ideals in architecture down socety's collective throat.

      We've already done, and are doing, that. We just haven't dicussed it much. Wolfe made some very vaild points but times/ideologies change. Perhaps it is time to seriously again look at what this "dogma" can produce.

      modernist ideal in architecture.

      Neither this view nor its anithesis should be holy ground here. We're talking about efficient, affordable, suitable housing. We're not talking about a critics "views" on what is "good architecture". I've seen mud huts that I would live in :-)

      --
      Stoptional
  73. Houses in which I've lived by renehollan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't know if cookie-cutter components for houses is the way to go, at least not at the level of making major changes. For me, having owned three houses, and soon (due to unemployment) to move into a small rental place (until I can s/un//), the issue hasn't really been one of layout, or style, but basic space, and utility.

    Over the years we (myself, wife, two kids, a cat, and a ginuea pig) have accumulated the usual amount of "stuff". Facing a move, we're getting rid of stuff we don't really need: donating old books to the library and either discarding or giving away junk (and yes, that includes a lot of computer/electronic related junk, on my part). But that got me thinking: "Why have all this stuff in the first place?"

    Of course, as a geek, I've always wanted to serve music and movies from a central server to client machines around the house. Recently, I've been able to accomplish this, but the real motivating factor lately has not been the "neetness" coefficient in doing this, but the pleasure in not having to have "media" cabinets in entertainment areas, with increasing amounts of media (CDs, DVDs, and legacy audio and video cassettes, and vinyl albums) that threaten to overflow the capacity of the cabinet -- in my younger and perhaps more foolish days I had a solid-oak and granite cabinet designed, with a modern look, to accomodate 240 CDs, 90 cassettes, and my B&O Beosystem 5500. Looks great, even 15 years later, but what happens when I get CD #241? At least now, it makes sense to archive the actual media, possibly refreshing the content to more dense media over time, serve the content from hidden servers, who's capacity can grow with technology, and generally upset the ??AAs because of the unscrupulous applications of the means to do this.

    Homes appear to be designed to accomodate "stuff", more or less depending on how much material wealth one has. My take on this is that they should be designed to reduce the need for "stuff", in the first place. To be sure, proper networking to accomodate information and entertainment data is part of this (heck, even my bills arrive electronically, and I get an end-of-year CD from PayMyBills, instead of ever-increasing file storage), and a large part, and a lot can be achieved with a "data" headend and appropriate wiring in even a modest home, but it's just the start.

    Clothing, kitchen, and garage storage has got to be among the most inefficient use of space there is. Why do we need wardrobe cabinets and dressers? Why not simply provide enough closet space in bedrooms? Or "bench"-style storage, kind of like Captain's beds, but all around the room walls, modular, and the right height to put things on, much like a dresser. Wouldn't take more space than a dresser, and, most importantly, it would mean that you don't need to own a dresser for each bedroom. Modularity in such units (rather like kitchen cabinets) would be most welcome. If you want to go all out, eliminate the bed foundation: build it into the room, needing only a mattress and box spring, with sufficient modularity to accomodate single, double, queen, and king. Unless you really want your bedroom to be a second living room, with a certain "style", a bit of a "cookie cutter" look, if it saves on the need for furniture, would be great -- you sleep there, after all. Personalization can take the form of wall hangings (posters, paintings, photographs, LCD or plasma displays, etc). The place for style and traditional furnishings, IMHO, is in the more public areas of the home: living, dining, and family spaces. Personally, I'd be happier with smaller, more functional, bedrooms, with the reclaimed space added to the other areas of the home.

    On to kitchens.

    Cabinets... can't have enough kitchen cabinets. Why? Because there's no standardization when it comes to kitchen utensils and plastic storage containers. Take a cutlery drawer: one usually has a plastic insert that holds forks, knives, table spoons, teaspoons, forks (regular and desert). All the odd-sized "infant/todler" stuff, garlic presses, tea infusers, chopsticks, hand can/bottle openers, etc. get dumped into the "miscelaneous" part of such an organizer and invariably overflows into the reset of the drawer. What a mess. While the basics are taken organized, the rest piles up. There should be a "standard" kitchen set, designed to be stored in a modular insert for a standard kitched drawer that accomodates 95% of the most common kitchen items. Oh sure, you'll always have the rarely (or less-rarely if you like to cook) used implement, but there is something wrong when a kitchen drawer insert's largest part is for miscellaneous stuff, and it's too small.

    Plastic storage containers. The round ones really waste space, and the square/rectangular ones don't fill cabinets to a decent packing density. Cabinets, fridges, and plastic leftover storage containers should come in standard sizes (the first two probably do, but that doesn't help the latter). I'm thinking like 19" racks with 1-3/4" spacing per "U" -- except, call them "K"s, for kitchen: you'd have 10, 12, 16, 18 "K" cabinets in various widths (multiples of, say 4-1/4") to accomodate 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. "K" storage containers in multiples of the same standard width. Drawer inserts would conform to this standard too, so you can have the extra cutlery for 8 stashed in a cabinet, perhaps.

    Kitchen cabinet shelves: make them slide out, dammit! And fit in the dishwasher (being dishwasher safe, of course). This is probably most important for pantry shelves, which accumulate bread, cookie, sugar, salt, pet food, and other debris, but, as we all know, the pantry overflows to an extra cabinet (at least it does for cat food in our home). Naturally, they should be adjustable-height. Modern kitchen cabinets come close, but, while removable, and adjustable, they are not designed for this to be done on a regular basis. Oh, and while we're finishing up in the kitchen, standardise the sizes of canned goods to match the pantry/cabinets.

    Laundry Rooms. Every house needs one. My first two had just had the washer and dryer in a corner or closed off section of the basement, and the last one (built recently) actually had a separate small room. The latter works well, but gimme storage space for all the cleaners to keep there (not just detergents). Two storey homes really need a laundry chute -- bring it back. And, oh, a dumbweiter to take the folded laundry back up. As long as we're on the subject, why haven't we solved the problem of the bursting washing machine hose, huh? Yes, one should always turn off the main taps when not in use and not keep constant pressure on the hose (or rather the washers, which are what tend to give when you are 3000 miles from home), but who remembers to do that? (Well, I do, but my wife doesn't. /me ducks). Why the @#$%^$# don't washing machines have standard control signals for fail-safe water solenoid-controlled valves instead?

    Living/Dining/Family rooms: here's where the style of the home/occupant should show and really be the only place where "furniture", in the classic, non-modular sense, should be needed.

    Garage/storage: why ultrasonic bumper ranging devices aren't standard, with large LED distance readouts, or at least red/yellow/green "traffic" lights, I dunno. I guess people really do manage to park their monster vans with 1" to spare front and back, without difficulty.

    Interior walls: repeat after me: should be movable. Within the limits of structural integrity, most interior walls, separating sleeping areas from each other, and from other living areas, should be removable. Yeah, this is asking a lot, espescially if it is to look O.K. without any ugly attachment points on the walls/floor, ceiling. But it would be real nice to change a 2 master, 3 bedroom house, into a 1 master, 4 bedroom house, when the second kid comes along.

    Of course, these are just my thoughts, off the top of my head (or, depending on your opinion, pulled out of my a**), but I definately think there is room for improvement and some degree of modularization/standardization in the house building industry.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  74. didn't the soviets try that? by perfectommy · · Score: 1

    hey, great idea - the soviets had that idea, too - now there's millions of awful buildings spread across the former soviet block....

  75. What about the modified Quonset hut?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Bucky Fuller built a domelike house out of stamped metal pieces that bolted together, each piece light enough to be held in one hand, so that a person could assemble the structure unassisted.

    The modern form of his vision for a sturdy, economical mass-manufactured structure is, IMO, the modified Quonset huts such as here. All the parts bolt together, and they nest, so that materials for an entire 30 x 50' structure, 14' high at sides an 18' at peak, can be shipped on a single 3' x 13' pallet, total weight 4,500lbs. But maybe you want to insulate? There is a system, but it looks ugly. Perhaps build a wood frame inside to hang sheet-rock. Oops, goodbye modular construction.

    And any such modular building will need a foundation, most likely poured concrete and rebar. It will need plumbing for water, sewage, it will need electrical wiring, modular architecture doesn't help with this. Even an injection-molded bathroom as found in hotels and some apartments in Japan, still needs to be wired, plumbed on site, although certainly some labor savings. So I don't see what help the modular theorists can give.

    We have been renovating an old wooden home for two years, and based on this experience, I would say that building with wood sucks because it is way labor intensive. Even though the strong point of wood is easy processing, you see in a wooden house you need a piece to trim around every seam at every window, every door, along floor. You need it to hide otherwise unsightly joints, and to seal out access to bugs and rodents--very important here in the tropics. That means hundreds of cuts, hundreds of pieces each unique, some with defects that need filled, each needing sanded and finished with least two coats-- definitely not what the modular ivory tower folks have in mind.

    Wood has problems reflecting its natural origin such as warpage and knot holes. Plywood has thickness variations, can't just screw down a bunch of 3/4" sheets and expect to have a flat subfloor. You'll be bondo'ing and sanding quite a bit. Definitely not modular--except as convenient shipping of plywood in containers and transport by forklift--that part is 'modular'.

    So frustrated with the high outright cost of wood, its expense in processing, quality problems, and environmental costs, we've decided our next home will be mostly concrete. Concrete requires rebar and forming. We hope to get around forming with wood by using expanded metal lath to define the surfaces. The lath would be wired to the rebar. We are consulting with a concrete expert who uses a lightweight concrete with air mixed in for some purposes. This material can be screwed or nailed.

    Concrete is not exactly modular, but it can be preformed into many more interesting and functional shapes than the hollow-core block so widely used.

    The poster who mentioned military barracks look for modular homes is right. You can't have a beautiful home that fits into the landscape without expending a lot of effort on the details.

  76. chick magnet NOT by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Oh great, Yet another way to stand out as a geek.

  77. Re:No one like fluorescent lights. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    compact flourescents are quiet.
    new flourescent fixtures are quiet. flicker .. yes but quiet.

  78. I get it know.... by nebenfun · · Score: 1

    I was wondering why MS called opensource a virus.
    Now I understand....

    nbfn

  79. The perfect modular housing system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The brick!

    People are capable of building well designed housing that suits their needs as long as they are able to build using materials they can work by hand and modify themselves. Truly great buildings (Think Spanish villages hanging off cliffsides or the Colleges at Oxford) accrete over time from a series of small changes done to improve the building from the perspective of the individual.

    Any system of modular components has to allow people to create and use those components easily. Brick's are OK but still require a fair degree of expert knowledge. Strawbale is very easy to source and very easy to work with. You can find hundreds of accounts of people building their own houses out of strawbale, same with mud brick, wattle and daub, and various kinds of earth construction.

    People who live in a society where building your own house out of these base level modular components will naturally come to learn more and more about what constitutes a good dwelling. And most of these things aren't high-tech gizmos or communications systems. Things like placement of windows, ventalation, entrances and pathways.

    This requires a new approach to how builders build houses and banks lend money of course - and while I'm wishing, I'd like a pony.

  80. Flourescent lights will never be in my house by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fluorescent lights will never be in my house despite how energy efficient they are. I use halogen lights exclusively. I want my light to be white.

  81. If you want a prefabricated house by w3woody · · Score: 2

    You could always buy a manufactured home. (The term "manufactured home" refers to homes that are designed using CAD, assembled in a factory, and then transported to the site. Oh, and they used to be called "mobile homes" before the term got associated with trailer park trash.) Manufactured homes *are* mass produced, and are relatively inexpensive--and, oddly enough, people only live in them if they cannot afford any better.

    Honestly, a lot of prefabrication and labor reducing technologies are slowly making their way into the building industry. From prefabricated trusses to standardized door frames and prefabricated window frames, quite a bit nowadays is being assembled at a factory and shipped on site, rather than being built on site. Even "custom" cabinets are being built in a factory and installed on-site, rather than being built on site. Further, technology is making its way into the toolbelt of most builders to reduce the amount of time needed in construction: air compressor-powered nailers, for example, reduce significantly the time to frame a house.

    That a bunch of eggheads want to somehow speed this up--and by changing how houses are designed, rather than how they are constructed for heaven's sake!--strikes me as a loser of a proposition.

    1. Re:If you want a prefabricated house by shyster · · Score: 3, Informative
      Having done some rearch into this area recently, I have to disagree. First off, manafactured and/or mobile homes are trailers. Factory built or modular homes are the made in the factory then transported to site type, and they are built to the same codes as site built (aka stick built) homes...manafactured homes are not. They're basically a site built house that's built in a factory, borken apart into 2-4 modules, and transported on site and put back together. See here for more info.

      That being said, modular homes are a bit less expensive. Anywhere from $40-$70/sq ft on the plans I've seen. Of course, that doesn't include foundation and site improvements (water hookups, sewer/septic system, basement + walls, etc.) so figure in about $7,000-$10,0000 for that. Also, the homes are about 90% finished, and need trimming out (gutters, shutters, drywall seams, etc.). That adds about %7-$10/sq ft. Overall, it seems to be around $10-$20/sq ft cheaper than a comparable site built home (which is around $100/sq ft for a good sized house).

      Modular homes can easily surpass site built in quality. There's a few reasons for this. First, it's much easier to control quality in a factory than on a job site. Inspectors can easily check the entire progress of a home, not just on a few announced site visits. Factory machinery is more precise than a $15/hour day laborer framer with a circular saw (and if you've ever seen and talked to a typical framing crew, you'd probably not want to move into any house). Modular homes have to be built to withstand transportation and being lifted by a crane, as well as stand without the support of the other parts of the house.

      Of course, a good site built home is still that...a well built home. And some modular manafacturers cut corners in materials, and some don't. As with anything else, it pays to do your homework.

      Modular homes are taking more and more of the market every day. I think it's where a good chunk of the industry is headed in the near future. Modular homes can look like any other (yes, even that 6,000 sq ft log cabin), and can be customized to a good extent (floor plans, fixtures, cabinets, carpet, etc. normally exterior dimensions are fixed by model).

  82. Thanks for corrections by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 1
    Thanks for your (and others) corrections and elaborations on building codes.

    I appear to have been wrong about the details of local building codes, but you do acknowledge that local authorties do manipulate things to protect the local building industry. Some of these things mean that we won't see certain sorts of potential economies of scale and large scale competition in house building.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
    1. Re:Thanks for corrections by w3woody · · Score: 2

      I appear to have been wrong about the details of local building codes, but you do acknowledge that local authorties do manipulate things to protect the local building industry. Some of these things mean that we won't see certain sorts of potential economies of scale and large scale competition in house building.

      Of course local municipalities do what they can to protect the local building industry. There are two reasons, one perhaps a little "protective", and one valid.

      The "protective" reason is that it means jobs to the local community. Very few communities like the idea of making it easier to allow jobs to leave a town or city; most communities spend a lot of time figuring out how to get jobs to relocate to their area. That's why most communities have at least a "chamber of commerce" whose rollcall reads like the political "who's who" of that area.

      That's also why, by the way, the building industry will happily accept any potential manufacturing economies of scale in the construction of homes. That is, the building industry will happily accept new tools which make framing a house faster (such as power nailers), or which make assembling cabinets faster (such as prefabricated cabinets) or the like: that allows them to assemble the house for less--and pocket the difference in price.

      See, the irony in housing price is that in many areas (such as California) houses in a given area tend to be priced by the square foot given it's location, not by the actual construction costs--so long as construction corners were not so cut that the house is uninhabitable. If a new technique comes along to allow a house to be framed for $5,000 instead of $15,000, the $10,000 saved will simply be pocketed by the builder--because houses, priced by the square foot and not by construction costs due to restrictions on construction in most municipalities creating artifical shortages which drive prices up.

      The second reason why most municipalities try to protect the local building industry is to protect the local "flavor" of the community. In California, there is a large scale builder (Kaufman and Broad) who has made inroads in large scale home construction. Unfortunately for them, however, most local communities don't like Kaufman and Broad neighborhoods because they tend to look like generic cookie-cutter homes--and those neighborhoods have a hard time attracting buyers.

      Most successful local builders tend to have a good feel for their local community, and most municipalities wish to project and preserve that feel. And so they tend to shun anything (such as modular home construction) which would destroy that local feel, such as Kaufman and Broad homes.

  83. Overestimating architects by w3woody · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I used to work for a startup back in 1988, I met the Apple Architectual Design "Evangelist" who, over lunch with a bunch of other people, told me how she invisioned Apple taking over the architectual design industry. Amonst other things, she told me of a future where, due to efficiencies in design and communication, house construction could begin while plans were in plan check at the building departments because the plans needed for construction could be sent over to the job site before the required documentation for plan check could be finalized. What a wonderful world this would be that we could speed up the construction of a house by the two or three weeks a house spends in plan check, by using Macintosh computers to speed up the process so that construction and plan check could happen in parallel!

    I asked her what would happen if a set of plans failed plan check.

    "Excuse me?"

    What would happen if a set of plans failed plan check because a hallway was too narrow? Wouldn't the builders be up shit's creek if the cement foundation they just poured last week had to be jack-hammered up because the hallway nailers and forms were placed wrong, because the hallway was drawn too narrow?

    She assured me that architects never made that kind of mistake. I told her that architects made that kind of mistake all the time; my mother (who was a drafter for an architect) had made that very mistake at the start of her career--the architect she worked for didn't catch the mistake either. That's why plans sit in plan check for two to three weeks!

    Stupid woman. But it does explain why we see so few Macintosh computers in architectual drafting offices today...

    The article reminded me of her because the article cites some similar rather stupid blunders which I would consider "overestimating the architects." My favorite quote:

    n their paper "A New Epoch," Larson and two MIT colleagues suggest that mass customization finally allows architects to play a significant role in the design of houses for the mass market. Larson himself knows from experience that house commissions currently come only from "adventurously wealthy" clients. But with a Web-based design system, architects can become involved in the earlier stage of creating design "engines" from which modest-income customers could develop their own permutations. It has a faintly Modernist, and solidly idealistic, ring to it: architects would no longer be designing forms as the expression of technological function but algorithms that produce expressive skins, each offering a variation from the next.

    First, let me state that as the child of parents in the building industry (and who made spare money running plans to the city of Fresno for plan check while in High School), I have known quite a few people in the building industry and in the housing industry. So I think I'm speaking from a little bit of experience here.

    And let me state flatly that most of the architects I've met couldn't even pronounce the word "algorithm", much less be able to quantify their design skills into one.

    Second, let me state that the statement "Larson himself knows from experience that house commissions currently come only from "adventurously wealthy" clients." is misleading. What is expensive in a custom home is not the custom architectual design, which in my neck of the woods runs around $2/sqft (which, for a custom 2500 square foot house would be about $5,000), but the construction costs and the profits made by the building contractor who builds your house. (Most of the guys out there who run building contracts won't even look at your set of plans unless they figure on a $20,000 profit, minimum) The expensive part is not the design, but the construction. And even if altering the design of the house could somehow make the construction costs significantly less, the builder will just attempt to pocket the price difference anyways.

    Furthermore, the statement is misleading in that it suggests that architects are not involved in the design of tract housing. The truth is that what makes tract housing awful is that the architect who designs the tract housing generally has few incentives to design good tract homes. Generally a contract for tract housing goes like this: the developer knows he wants to knock off a few hundred homes, and so he approaches the architect and says "give me 8 house designs, around 1600 to 2000 square feet, and make them easy to build." And, like a soup that is prepared without someone tasting the concoction to make adjustments along the way, with most architects you get 8 rather soulless designs, because he's being paid regardless of the quality of the designs, so long as they meet the construction parameters that were set out.

    Tract housing is cheap, by the way, not because the construction techniques are any different from custom homes, but because the developer, in building a lot of homes, has more incentives to "turn and churn"--that is, he has more incentive to cut corners, both in the quality of the construction materials, cost of cabinets, appliences, etc., and in reducing his margins, so he can sell the houses as quickly as possible. That's because most developers who build houses and then sell them (as most builders who build "spec houses"--that is, houses built on speculation that it will sell) generally take out a "construction loan", and have to pay the bank interest in that loan for every month the builder holds onto the house. And when the entire profit margin for a spec house can be eaten in interest if the house remains unsold for 15 months, and for a tract house in something like 7 to 8 months, that means the developer is better off selling the house the first month rather than the 5th--and that means keeping costs (including profit margins) down.

    None of this has squat to do with architectual design, by the way.

    Hopefully the musings of these MIT eggheads will go the way of that Apple Evangelist. Or, at the very least, they'll figure out how the building industry *really* works, so they can at least devote their energy into making things more efficient for the builders--such as, for example, figuring out a faster and cheaper way to build roofs than prefabricated truss systems...

    1. Re:Overestimating architects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Just to pile on a little bit, I noticed this statement:

      Further down the line, MIT plans to retrofit a loft building and build a new market-rate condominum using the same House-n system, featuring a single integrated heating, ventilation, and air conditioning system. This alone is anathema for home building, which currently depends on separate subcontractors to install three distinct systems. "I propose that that's insane," Larson says. "Somebody needs to make a single appliance that allows this all to happen."

      Am i misunderstanding something here or do they just need a good heat pump system?

  84. Open House by Zarf · · Score: 2

    Has someone already made that joke?

    I had this idea that I called "podular" living. The idea is my house could be dismantled and re-assembled in new configurations as a family's needs changed. The modules would have "pod-like" ports that could be plugged together like Hamster-Habi-Trail tubes.

    Ofcourse I was going to make the pods more stuble than Hamster tubes. The interfaces would be large rectangular sections on the sides of octagonal modules. Floor and ceiling ports for stacking would be octagonal and house spiral staircases.

    A typical pod could be unsegmented, segmented in quarters, configured as classic living room/dining room/artic entry way with an optional balcony. Basically the starter pod would be an efficiency house/apartment in a geodisc. Additional geodiscs could be attached or a garage pod added. A basement pod could be buried... ect. The whole thing would be easily disconnected and mounted on earthquake resistant foundational pylons.

    The "landing gear" supporting the pod would fit into coaster like ports on the foundational pylons to provide more earthquake resistance. The exterior frame would be steel girders and wood paneling since they hold up to earthquake stresses better. The walls would be curved and very thick for heating efficiency. Think tomato shape with window steeples around the top.

    The pods would also be independantly heated so that when a pod was not in use you could seal it off and turn off the heat. Think blast doors. Squat sturdy construction would help them withstand hurricane force winds and storms. All metal versions could withstand wave forces and be constructed to be nearly water proof.

    *LOL* guess where I'm from. All that thought about earthquake and weather resistance... heh.

    --
    [signature]
  85. Maybe I read a different article by scaryjohn · · Score: 1

    Yes, the MIT people are using a "modular house" for their laboratory of how people use homes, but I don't feel that they're proposing modular houses at all. The lab home they're using is modular so it'll be easier to manipulate conditions between (within?) a participant's stay...

    • Given a doors to the bathroom in the bedroom and living room, which gets used more?
    • How does the size of the living room effect how much time people spend there?
    • Do people prefer the range to be to the left of the sink, or the right?

    ...that sort of thing.

    The ultimate goal being an open-sourced (yeah, right!) expert system that can generate a modular design: one of a few kitchen plans is shuffled around in relation to the other rooms based on how the "client" says he lives from day to day. That plan gets passed off to an uberhomebuilder, who can buy the components for the four different types of kitchens... and the three different master bedrooms, and the five different living rooms... all in bulk and use them on different houses.

    This, instead of having eight high square-footage unalterable house designs that get spawned all over the same subdivision. I think it would be a great middle ground between picking a set-in-stone plan out of a limited catalog, and retaining an architect from start-to-finish. <cynical>I also think this'll be realized somewhere between useful voice recognition and true artificial intelligence.</cynical>

    --
    One might ask the same about birds. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
  86. I've been thinking about open source automobiles by smokin'moses · · Score: 1

    While driving to work the other day, thinking about those neat jet-engine driven cars that store energy in a flywheel, and how I haven't heard much about them since I read about them a few years ago, I wondered if open source development applied to designing something like this could do for automobile manufacturing what open software has done for computing.

    Those cars sounded neat, and I think they might have built one prototype or something, but it was really expensive. The idea was that piston engines are very inefficient, and the jet engine would be a major improvement in fuel efficiency, but I wonder if trying to do something that different in the face of an entrenched industry is doomed for failure when using the traditional "I'm going to do it all" approach. That's when open source seemed like a good way to get new technology off the ground, by letting people that cared about the issues at stake do the design and build the various components of the product, demonstrating the alternative to the status quo.

    Instead of users writing code, you'd have engineers designing the open source specs, and companies or individuals willing to manufacture a part or an assembly for the car, manufactured to the open specs, which would specify the interfaces between the various components, such as the engine to transmission coupling and flywheel to frame mount.

    I'm sure at first it would be for serious hobbyists only, but after enough grass roots support was there, and you had people building the cars in your neighborhood and selling them, it could become a real alternative for eco-people. I mean, once your average environmentalist gear head's showing off his new jet/fly rod down at the health food store, the demand's going to be there.

    My point is, does anyone know of any other viable and seriously needed applications of open source to manufacturing, particularly in the case of helping start up environmentally friendly alternative technologies like minimizing or replacing fossil fuel use, etc? I can imagine it happening, but only if there were one product that enough people would be passionate enough about to bring an alternative into existence.

  87. what a future! by HarryLeBlanc · · Score: 1

    Who in their right mind would want to live inside a giant PDA, riddled with gizmos? This "future" -- like so many others -- has built into it all the assumptions of the present. A more appealing vision of the future is something like this: Earth Ships -- energy-independent, passive-solar, captures and cleans its own water, and it's built out of old tires. That's our future, here in the industrialized west -- trying to figure out what the hell we're going to do with all this trash.

  88. pre-fab factory built slab based houses exist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can get a manufactued home shipped and installed on your concrete slab for ~ $40,000.

    The good thing is that they are not mobile homes.

  89. Straw housing by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    It's interesting, I remember seeing a TV show about homes being built by volunteers on a Native American reservation...

    Using *straw bales* as the primary building component. The straw was (of course) stuccoed to provide strength.

    A quick Google search returns the following:
    http://www.strawhomes.com/
    http://www .balewatch.com/

    These seem a bit higher-end than the homes built on the reservation, but an example of how straw (a very cheap building material) can be used as a building material. One of the big advantages of using straw is that it provides extreme levels of insulation, in addition to its low cost.

    I also passed by a homebuilder's expo a year or so ago, and a number of vendors were advertising a construction technique for making building walls that involved erecting a styrofoam mold and then filling the mold with concrete. That would probably also be a pretty cheap approach, although it would be hard-pressed to compete with cinderblocks.

    Straw-filled cinderblocks might work quite well...

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  90. Supply and demand by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    Simple. Demand for land is high in such places, and as a result, land is extremely expensive.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Supply and demand by btempleton · · Score: 2

      Duh. But what I said was that the cost of building a home for unknown reasons goes up in places where the land is valuable.

      It works like this. As a region heats up, the existing homes might double in price. A $200K home that was a $150K home on a $50K piece of land becomes a $400K home. But it is not, as it turns out, a $150K home on a $250K piece of land. It's not exact, but it's more like now a $250K home on a $150K piece of land. For unknown reasons the house itself is worth more, even though there has not been anything to cause a doubling in the cost of homebuilding.

      And if you go to a region with cheap land, lo, you can build that same house for $150K.

      Anyway, why are you replying to a day old /. thread? Nobody reads these after they vanish from the main page.

      --
      Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  91. You are a fucking moron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject, idiot.