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America's First WCDMA Call
k-hell writes "Ericsson and AT&T Wireless recently completed the first WCDMA/UMTS call in a live network environment in the Americas, capable of data transfer speeds of up to 384 Kbps. AT&T Wireless and Ericsson currently pursuing the path to 3G capabilities in the U.S. market by deploying EDGE-ready GSM/GPRS systems. This path ensures an evolution to EDGE, then UMTS, a wideband radio technology that provides mobile users with data rates up to 2 Mbps." This is not yet a strong enough reason to move to Dallas, though.
Okay, so what... I already live in Dallas and have Sprint's Vision plan... that gets me on average 128kbits/sec including when I plug my phone into my laptop. I don't really think I'm going to rush out and get one of the other carriers for an extra few k/sec.
AT&T Wireless and Ericsson currently pursuing the path to 3G capabilities in the U.S. market by deploying EDGE-ready GSM/GPRS systems.
Remember when your teacher told you grammar wasn't that important as long as you could get your point across? THEY LIED.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The meteoric demise of Metricom's Richochet service (which was unlike most dot-bombs run sincerely, and provided pretty good value) should make it pretty clear as to the demand for such fun.
some a-hole driving along surfing the web...I'm gonna kill him.
That writeup is KOC*. It has a LOA** . WIKWTHTM***!
* Kind Of Confusing
** Lot of Acronyms
*** Wish I knew what the hell they mean
SONY. Because caucasians are just too damn tall.
As I see it, the biggest selling points for 3G data service are the availability and security associated with it. While one can never be completely secure over anything wireless, certainly, when coupled with stronger encryption, 3G can promise high speed security. Most people who need an internet connection for business purposes will likely pay a premium for always-available, secure data services.
For the casual user, I do see 802.11b as being "just fine." So what if someone is packet-sniffing my Yahoo.com mail account? I'm really not doing anything important. However, when data services become both ubiquitous and inexpensive, we may find users who cut the line on their cable modems and DSL connections and go wireless. (Kind of like we are seeing a transition from land-line phones to cellular.)
Of course, there are also issues such as network saturation, which I feel are being grossly overlooked. I mean, I regularly can't complete calls during the evening hours (when the other 26,000 people at my University are also using their free night and weekend minutes.) I can't imagine what it would be like with data services on top of that!
In short, I see the cellular phone as an application of a broader wireless platform. The platform is now beginning to be used to transmit data, which is a perfectly appropriate use of the technology. Over the next few years as 3G becomes more wire-spread, we'll see how things shape up. It will be interesting to watch.
i dont think that wifi can replace this technology. 3g has better range then wifi does and it does roaming between towers, whereas wifi is not capable of this yet. So if you are stationary, wifi might be the way to go, otherwise 3g will be the solution for people on the go. Somebody needs to come out with a killer app in order to get people to swtich to 3g, such as unmetered connections for reasonable flat rate fee, then it will be more likely to catch on.
Mmmmm, cheeze. And beeeer. And football...aaaaaaaaagggh.
I'm using Sprint's PCSvision system right now (for this post in fact). It gets somewhere between 144 to 230 kbps (similar to ISDN) and is available right now. I have the unlimited service, which is $110/month-to-month. Pretty resonable, I use it on the road for business.
The only thing that's been kinda sucky so far is the slow upload speeds and it really sucks battery life out of a notebook...
Other than that, it works as advertised. Setup is a bit of a pain, but it's only been out for a month or so, so perhaps the next release of the software will fix that.
-- I don't have a cool sig.
Granted, the Cowboy's aren't the Packers
They are however, a bunch of packers.
With initial packet data speeds up to 384 kbps a wideband radio technology that provides mobile users with data rates up to 2 Mbps
More interesting would be a test of this under high saturation. Current systems are already getting bogged down, reception is getting craps, calls lost, etc. Once the user-base for the service gets high, I would predict a decrease in speed (at least for a time).
Never trust the "up to." My internet is supposed to get "up to " > 2.5Mbps transfer rate down. Average or mean would be a better indicator.
Maybe it's not a 'geek' enough reason, but it's warm and the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders are there.
As someone who used to live in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex, I can say this is about all you have. The crime is terrible there (including crimes committed by members of the Dallas Cowboys themselves), the traffic is awful, pollution is getting bad, and all the land around the area is privately owned giving one no outdoor recreation opportunities without paying someone to use the land. All that said, there are things I do really miss about Texas, especially the people. But recently I had to turn down a very tasty job offer in Dallas because of the afforementioned problems. It's simply not worth it to me.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I am one of the toughest critics of cellular operators, whom I believe are the weakest links in the value chain to create viable wireless data businesses. However, I don't think the cellular operators are -- or should be -- embarrassed about 3G vs. WiFi. The operators should be embarrassed about lots of things -- misleading the public about capabilities, marketing WAP as "wireless Internet," providing virtually no customer education, etc., etc. -- but not about the concept of 3G vs. WiFi. Some points of comparison: * WiFi was designed for local area networks. 3G was designed for wide area networks. * WiFi was designed for data. 3G was designed for voice and data. * WiFi emphasizes computing devices (laptops, desktops, PDAs). 3G emphasizes (so far) handsets; I hope the cellular industry gets more aggressive about promoting PC Card/Compact Flash radio modems and wireless-enabled PDAs for 3G. * WiFi uses non-licensed spectrum. 3G uses licensed spectrum. Businesses are often more wary of using unlicensed spectrum than licensed spectrum. * WiFi doesn't require corporations or home users to pay airtime charges for local usage. WiFi companies trying to develop nationwide paid access are still figuring out the business model. 3G (2G and 2.5G) requires local, national and international airtime charges. If the cellular industry fails to develop a viable business model for integrating WiFi with cellular and if public fee-based WiFi networks expand dramatically across the country, then it's possible that WiFi could steal some of the thunder and customers away from 3G data services.
I have a friend in Japan who was telling me about this product. Land line quality phones and a data connection over the same wireless connection!!
7 megs/second!!!
http://www.somanetworks.com, I've heard they are trialing a few places in the US and maybe Canada. IIt would be pretty nice to get away from Bell.
That's a good one. People in Wisconsin are mainly waiting for a Lynyrd Skynyrd reunion.
Best Windows Freeware
Well not a huge history, but just some interesting trivia..
Ricochet's wireless modems were not run out of the Bay area office as some like to think. Bay area was mainly a "peoples interface"
The real behind the curtain work occured down in texas. The NOC in texas was responisible for authenticating the modems and ultimately had complete control over the system.
[training speil]
When the ricochet is turned on, it's unique number goes over the poletops until it hits a WAP, then down to texas where the number is checked against the customer database. If it checks out an authorization command is sent back to the modem allowing it to connect to the ricochet network.
[end training speil]
Texas is a huge flat land mass located in the southern portion of the united states. It borders the carribean and has fairly nice weather (except for the occasional tornado) These geographical features are what makes it so appealing to wireless development.
Also to note are the remote oil fields that depend on pump yeild data that is usually sent wirelessly because it's cheaper in terms of right of way. So basically there's a demand in texas for anything new in wireless data transfer.
Texas is cool place to watch on "King of the Hill", but I wouldn't want to live there just because I love where I live (Friends, family, ect) I'm surprised slashdot editors would allow such a seething comment to make it through. Just because you love where you live is no reason to clown on someplace else.
I spent a week in Gonzalez TX, during June about 5 years ago, when my wife's Aunt died. They had a big old house with no A/C. Hmm, Actually the church didn't have A/C either. Very small town. My father-in-law called it 'Little Hell'. The worst for me was my 6 month old being so uncomfortable.
As corny as it sounds, it's not the heat, it's the humidity. It was in the 90's there easily, but it was just HOT. Up here it can be unbearable in the 80's.
It's all relative ;)
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
This is not yet a strong enough reason to move to Dallas, though.
Yeah, they're gonna have to throw in something *important* like downloadable ring tones or a Hello Kitty screensaver.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
Just curious if 3G will jumpstart a faster Bluetooth spec. To the best of my knowledge, Bluetooth isn't capable of reaching 2 megabits.
Right now I have a BT enabled cell phone. I use it as an organizer that syncs up with Outlook on my laptop. I've heard that you can use BT to get an internet connection to the laptop, but I haven't personally verified that. If I could, though, it'd mean that my laptop would be able to get on the net without needing to remove my cell phone from my pocket. One less thing sitting 3 inches from my laptop with a 6' cable attached.
you really should get out more!
Its probably more accurate to say this is the first WCDMA/UMTS call on a commercial network, as Motorola and probably others have been doing this on their private networks for some time now.
Karma: Not Particularly Funny.
OK, can someone explain to me the difference between all of the 3g CDMA standards? Like CDMA 2000 vs. WCDMA? Is it a just a difference in how much data a second can be transferred, or is there something else to it. I know 1xRTT fits in there somewhere as well, but I think its just for voice.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Interestingly FOMA is a 3G network. More specifically it is also a WCDMA network (NTT just had to do their own derivate), which
someone claimed to be inpracictable or expensive at best.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
You should check out the stuff they're doing right now.1 1.html
I mean it's live in japan.
http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0206/06/njbt_
Actually, alot of the 3G phone handset designs have AGPS (Assisted Global Positioning Satellite) receivers built in, so they don't need triangulation to spot ya any more. Part of the requirement that E911 systems have imposed on cell phones being able to identify their own location so they can send help out as needed.
Karma: Not Particularly Funny.
Here is the NTT (the telco doing trials of SOMA technology in Japan) tiral page: www.winq-kanazawa.net. But it's not much good if you don't read Japanese -- it does have a pretty picture of the client hardware.
-- bartman
Actually, their website claims 12MB/s. Nice. Sounds like they are based on WCDMA, but "enhanced for Internet performance". They have details on their radio protocol on their website. Apparently they have a trial running in the USA, in rural Oregon -- details here. I can't wait to see this stuff available for the general public!
"In fact, there's no such thing as "a strong enough reason to move to Dallas.": +1, Funny
"There are precious few reasons strong enough to make one move to Dallas", -1, Troll
Anybody else think that's a little odd? Heh.
a friend of mine who lives there said that the female to male ratio is about 3:1...
That is one reason.
xmission eh? Must be a SLC local.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
...When Connectivity Providers fought tooth and nail for cities. Recently it has been regions. Now it looks like they are banding together and drawing the lines at nations. I mean, it seems that ubiquitious networks would be wonderful, but I worry when one becomes the national monopoly. Will technology like this allow competition with other protocols? Or do we get one protocol and a bunch of implementations from different companies?
Zech Harvey, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA
It's not just Dallas buddy. USA, land of the SUV. I grew up in Dallas; after living near mountains and the ocean, I'd never move back there. Someone else said it already: life is too short and Dallas is too boring.
XML causes global warming.
...that people using mobile phones while they're driving can now get into accidents twice as fast? ;-)
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
WCDMA - Wideband Code Division Multiple Access
UMTS - Universal Mobile Telecommunications System
according to www.acronymfinder.com and others
"We live in our minds, and existance is the attempt to bring that life into physical reality" Ayn Rand
Well, it was intended to be a joke. I assumed that the post was a swipe from a Northerner at Dallas, and Fort Worth is about 30 miles from Dallas, so moving to Dallas would be less of a hassle.
KERCLUNK!! Guess you had to be there (literally).
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
That's nothing. Wait until EVERYONE has this service. Instead of saying "Ericsson and AT&T Wireless today completed the first WCDMA/UMTS call in a live network environment in the Americas. With initial packet data speeds up to 384 kbps...", we'll actually be proud of even getting a call through! Forget the speed.
_end-rant
HURD - Hurd's Under Research & Development
It gets somewhere between 144 to 230 kbps
Can you do some tests and give us real world numbers?
The only thing that's been kinda sucky so far is the slow upload speeds
How slow? I was under the impression the technology was full duplex. It's not?
Have you tried using the PC card in your desktop computer for internet access?
"And like that
In Soviet Russia, wireless technology transmits YOU at high speed!
(Sorry, I don't even know where this joke comes from.)
"And like that
CDMA (2G) -> CDMA-2000(3G) GSM (2G) -> WCDMA(3G) Its funny how these GSM-based 3G technologies are achieving these technical milestones now, while CDMA-based technologies (ie. CDMA-2000) have been commercially deployed for months at much cheaper costs, and much greater flexibility. A testament to the ongoing wireless industry debate between GSM and CDMA. The way it looks right now, GSM-based carriers are going to have a much more expensive and difficult time evolving their networks; especially in Europe, where the 3G migration path was mandated by the European Commission years ago in an effort to protect all of the European companies supporting (and making huge revenues off of) GSM. Now that a better way to 3G exists (ie. CDMA-2000, based off of CDMA), European carriers can't switch technologies and are finding it near impossible to keep up with the evolving pace of CDMA-2000. Euro-carrier Orange all but scrapped their 3G plans today due to mounting costs and complexities of developing WCDMA networks. Its the reason why NTT Docomo (Japanese carrier) is now getting blown away by their competitor(s) in Japan, when 2 years ago they led the market. The same reason why Europe has gone from first to last in terms of carrier technology and services. Some really good thoughts on the GSM vs. CDMA topic from people who know way more than me: http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/10/GSM3G.sh tml
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=f5b64 b062368aae582d6f4f7895ce712&threadid=73028
What good does this new-fangled crap get me when I can't even get decent reception, much less any reception, when I'm back home? (right betwen Eau Claire and LaCrosse, Wisconsin). Get service(digital-2G) in > 95% of the US and then worry about other shit. I know a lot of people who would get cell phones if they could just get decent(if any) reception. They're missing out, from what I see, as a lot of potential customers. But, there must not be enough possible customers to turn a profit by introducing digital service in certain areas....so we'll just have more hicks without cell phones for a little while longer.
Yeah, try making a long distance call between 4:30pm and 6:30pm during the week. Forget about it! It seems most carriers (wireless and land line) have stopped building out capacity and kept on adding subscribers. The voice networks are stretched to the breaking point.
I'm not asking for the world...I live in central NJ, I just want to be able to call PA or North Jersey. It's hard to believe that there isn't enough capacity to allow that.
Now I can't even make reliable voice calls...do you think for one minute unsatisfied cellular customers are going to spring for spotty, slow data services....YEAH RIGHT, KEEP DREAMING!
-ted
First, 2G digital technologies:
D-AMPS, aka TDMA (latter name not good because GSM is also TDMA) - Used by Cingular and AT&T until recently
GSM - Used by T-Mobile. Cing and AT&T are rolling out GSM. GSM doesn't seem to handle multiple providers in the same area very well, as numerous T-Mobile customers are complaining about their phones going into "Emergency service only" mode as soon as Cing and AT&T roll out service in their area. Used in Europe by legal mandate.
cdmaOne - Qualcomm's original CDMA implementation. Used by Sprint PCS, Verizon, Qwest, Telus Mobility in Canada, and (I believe) Centennial Wireless in Mexico.
2.5G services:
GPRS - The GSM high-speed data enhancement. 40ish kilobits/sec
CDMA2000 1xRTT - Evolution of cdmaOne, 144 kilobits max in initial versions, later going into the 200s-300s. Backwards compatible with cdmaOne - cdmaOne handsets work with CDMA2000 networks and vice versa, which allows providers to do partial rollouts for market testing/high-demand areas.
3G services:
UMTS - The 3G evolution of GSM. The GSM people realized their modulation scheme was inferior, so moved to a CDMA variant. Unfortunately, almost all the companies with CDMA expertise are behind CDMA2000, which means that the UMTS camp is having trouble getting anything to work well, especially handsets. (Most well-known problem right now is battery life - No mention was made about how long the battery used in this test would've lasted.) NTT DoCoMo rolled out UMTS in Japan, their name is now mud. Completely incompatible with GSM/GPRS. Requires new handsets, new base stations, and new spectrum.
CDMA2000 1xEV-DO - 3G evolution of Qualcomm's CDMA technology. From what I've heard, like 1xRTT it's backwards-compatible back to cdmaOne. i.e. a provider rolling out 1xEV-DO doesn't have to upgrade their entire network at once. Already in use in Korea and also I believe by KDDI in Japan (KDDI might only be using 1xRTT - Either way they're mopping up DoCoMo because their service actually works.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
cdmaOne (2G) -> CDMA2000 1xRTT (2.5G) -> CDMA2000 1xEV-DO (3G) - Seamless upgrade path, CDMA2000 handsets work with cdmaOne networks and vice versa.
Now, for GSM...
GSM (2G) -> GPRS (2.5G) -> dead end
scratch -> UMTS (3G)
UMTS and GSM/GPRS are completely different technologies with no relation whatsoever. For a carrier to upgrade to UMTS, they must upgrade their entire network and upgrade all handsets. They need new spectrum too. OUCH. Essentially, they have to start from scratch as if they were a brand new provider. CDMA providers can upgrade as needed. See Verizon's Express Network - They are slowly rolling out CDMA2000 city by city, but they don't have to upgrade everything at once, since CDMA2000 users will still be able to make voice and low-speed data calls even on the old network.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I live in central NJ (Bridgewater/Martinsville) and I'm perfectly happpy with my cell service with Verizon.
If you're using T-Mobile or Sprint, maybe you should just get a decent provider. If you look at their coverage maps, the edge of both of their coverage areas is just a few miles west of where I live... That's PITIFUL that neither carrier can fully cover the most densely populated state in the US.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Essentially, the charge is that Worldcom massively over-charged Metricom for backhaul bandwidth, while failing to re-sell the service as it was supposed to. Worldcom was also a major stock-holder in Metricom, which enabled it to ensure that contracts always favored it.