Slashdot Mirror


The Great Stanford Buffy Population Equilibrium Study

Suture writes "A PhD candidate in ecology at Stanford University has done an ecological analysis of humans and vampires in Sunnydale, the home of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He took some initial assumptions on rates of population growth, vampire feeding, etc and plugged them into a differential equations model. What he got was an equilibrium human population of 36,346, and an vampire population of around 18, and furthermore the equilibrium is stable. His conclusion was that even though the show's designers are not ecologists, they managed to come up with ideas that actually made ecological sense. Scroll to the bottom of the page to see a pretty cool spiral graph of human population vs vampire population."

113 of 302 comments (clear)

  1. Wow by unterderbrucke · · Score: 5, Funny

    and I thought I had too much time on my hands...

    1. Re:Wow by UnixRevolution · · Score: 4, Funny

      You mean when i was taking high-school physics and did calculations such as the impact speed of the chalupa on the head of the taco bell dog in the commercial?

      --
      You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
    2. Re:Wow by Dirtside · · Score: 5, Funny

      So instead of wasting your time coming up with vampire population ecology models, you're reading about it on Slashdot. This is something to gloat about? :)

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    3. Re:Wow by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 2

      Like, when I was in high school and we were studying physics, and I wondered what would happen to a moose if it got hit by a high-speed train AND the impact would be fully elastical (which were the only impacts we knew how to work with)?

      The moose would go into orbit. I know that now.

    4. Re:Wow by Rubyflame · · Score: 2

      That would have to be very fast train, seeing how the moose would only end up moving at twice the train.

      --

      All it takes is nukes and nerves.
    5. Re:Wow by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 2

      mv_before = mv_after. Speed of moose after impact equals speed of train before impact multiplied by the weight ratio train-to-moose.

      Amazing you remember these things...

  2. SW by gummijoh · · Score: 5, Funny

    I got an Phd for making an essay about the fact that Star Wars could not be real... not in this galaxy nor any other!

    1. Re:SW by LX.onesizebigger · · Score: 2

      Well, I think it is far less severe in comments than in the actual posting... "an vampire"? Come on Slashdot! Wake up, it's only 4 a.m.

      --
      I for one welcome our new SCOviet Russian overlords to whom all our base are belong.
    2. Re:SW by philipkd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you have a link to the essay you wrote? I would like to read it.

      - philipd

    3. Re:SW by pgpckt · · Score: 2


      How can I look this up? I would actually read it.

      --
      Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
    4. Re:SW by FyRE666 · · Score: 2

      I got an Phd for making an essay about the fact that Star Wars could not be real... not in this galaxy nor any other!

      Why do you people keep taking my childhood dreams away from me? Why? Why?!

  3. I think the real question is: by nuwayser · · Score: 5, Funny

    are there enough vampires in sunnyvale to sustain the show for another season?

    --
    "The cup... the drop... it's a YES!"
    1. Re:I think the real question is: by nzhavok · · Score: 2
      are there enough vampires in sunnyvale to sustain the show for another season?

      It appears not, from TVTome

      Four days after the airing of this episode, Joss Whedon announced that this would be the last season of Buffy, feeling that the show had come full circle
      --

      He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great
  4. Spike Quote by T-Kir · · Score: 3, Funny

    Spike: And I should do what with my spare time? Sit at home knitting cunning sweater sets? Ep: Out of My Mind

    Just in case people think I have way too much time on my hands, I did a Google search and this was at the top of the list.

    I must say the spiral curve the guy did looks a bit hallucinogenic... maybe he was on something?

    --
    Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
    1. Re:Spike Quote by dasunt · · Score: 5, Funny

      There are better Spike quotes out there. Such as:
      Spike: I like people. They're like Happy Meals with legs.

      (And note, that is an on-topic quote with regards to the article.)

  5. Hmm by Cali+Thalen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, while I can certainly go along with watching second-rate actors in bad make-up and cute actresses, throwing around a few equations that no one is likely to examine, and one confusing graph...and earning (possibly) a PhD in the process, what really got my attention was the line:

    "And to be fair, I'll tell you that my first order guesses, while probably not too far off, were chosen at least partly to obtain a reasonable result on our first try."

    Now THAT is my idea of effort!

    --
    Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
    1. Re:Hmm by hitzroth · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't count too heavily on him getting a PhD for this. It's a modified predator-prey model. It's not too dissimilar to what you might go over in an undergraduate class in dynamical systems. This is more along the lines of what a math geek might do for kicks.

      --
      In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
      --VonNeumann
  6. Looks like a shoe in... by DoomHaven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    for next year's Ignobel awards.

    --
    "Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
  7. But what about taking account for... by eforhan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...all the demons, witches, and number of times Angel has been resurrected?

  8. Re:A Few Too many assumptions by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Funny

    > what Archie and Betty and Veronica might have been up to?

    A clandistine manage-a-trois our parents were thankfully unaware of? Bring on the .kids domain! ;)

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  9. Re:Right... by dirkdidit · · Score: 2, Funny

    The article? Umm yes of course I read it. This is Slashdot, silly. :)

  10. Hmmmmmm..... by Audacious · · Score: 5, Funny

    The graph looks almost like a bad drawing of Dante's Inferno. Each twist is yet another level leading to hell.

    Which, since Sunnyvale is where the hellmouth is - it sort of all works out. In a strange, sort of demented way.

    (I think I'll go watch the Buffy musical again. It's got class. It's got style. And until you burn up - it sticks with you for a while.)

    --
    Someone put a black hole in my pocket and now I'm broke. :-)
  11. It's obviously in jest! by LojaK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This paper isn't a thesis paper for pete's sake! It isn't a dissertation! It's OBVIOUSLY a lark. He's a fan of Buffy, and he decided to engage his brain and see what he could conclude about the Buffy-verse. It's a hoot, relax people.

    -- L.

    1. Re:It's obviously in jest! by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I once wrote a paper analyzing the data from the Fastest-Finger qualifying game on Who Wants to be a Millionaire, using info from a website that logged all of the qualifying player's names and times. I then performed simple stat anaysis tests to show that the reason more men made it into the contestant chair is because more men were attempting, and that women were actually better at playing the Fastest Finger game, despite claims that the game favored men.

      Valid enough to be published and silence the critics? No way... far too little data do have that kind of certainty. Valid enough to get me an A+ on the project... yep. This was for a stats class, all I needed was to prove that I knew how to write a statistical report, not that I could collect solid data or pick a topic that meant anything to the world.

      Maybe there was a serious reason for him to do the "study"... but I don't think it's gonna get published in any place with scientific credibility.

    2. Re:It's obviously in jest! by jpetts · · Score: 2

      This paper isn't a thesis paper for pete's sake! It isn't a dissertation! It's OBVIOUSLY a lark. He's a fan of Buffy, and he decided to engage his brain and see what he could conclude about the Buffy-verse. It's a hoot, relax people.

      But! all the best research is done when people have a personal itch to scratch. That's what makes this so engaging...

      --
      Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
    3. Re:It's obviously in jest! by corbettw · · Score: 2

      "Maybe there was a serious reason for him to do the "study"... but I don't think it's gonna get published in any place with scientific credibility."

      What are you talking about?? It's on Slashdot!

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    4. Re:It's obviously in jest! by ameoba · · Score: 2

      Come on, every publication worth reading has a spot for stuff like this. This is perfect material for a last-page article in an appropriate publication.

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  12. A good page... by Hadean · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For good Buffy information (they had this story linked a while back I believe), check out Buffista. Their links page (http://www.buffistas.org/links.php) is quite extensive... Not bad.

    And, of course, you have to check out TV Tome's Buffy page, with good reviews, show guide and spoilers...

    Any other good ones?

  13. Another stat; good writers do their homework by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    even though the show's designers are not ecologists, they managed to come up with ideas that actually made ecological sense

    Maybe the writers did their research.
    Successful shows usually have good writers who often do their homework.

    Writers could even have first hand vampire experience!
    You never know. Only a slayer can tell!

  14. Rabbits and Foxes by Brackney · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't get the novelty of this. It's the classic "Rabbits and Foxes" problem that any mathematics or engineering student should have been exposed to in a differential equations course. Tuning the free parameters in the equations was probably "Sunnydale" specific, but otherwise, what's the big deal?

  15. A few more population genetics propositions... by Jedi+Paramedic · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Obviously, this is a very simplified model, and it is very vulnerable to flawed assumptions. For example, our guesses as to how often vampires feed and sire could be well off the mark. And to be fair, I'll tell you that my first order guesses, while probably not too far off, were chosen at least partly to obtain a reasonable result on our first try. In addition to our parameter assumptions being vulnerable, we may have made mistakes in the overall structure of the model. For example, we know that vampires can live (albeit miserably) on non-human prey. We've also heard from Spike that while vampires can starve, they don't actually starve to death. Incorporating these facts into the model might give some very different results.
    Other modifiers:

    - Buffy's success at finding a mate versus others' successes (hers should be assumed to be higher, which would increase the incidence of vampire-killing traits in the population),
    - the (Dubya) Bush administration's environmental policy, and whether increased pollution is more harmful to the living or undead, and
    - If you introduce population genetics to "The WB Frog," will he suddenly change sex and have the potential to bear young (as do amphibians when populations are all female, i think)?

    the plot thickens...
    --

    That's my purse! I don't know you! -- Bobby Hill
    1. Re:A few more population genetics propositions... by merlin_jim · · Score: 2

      If you introduce population genetics to "The WB Frog," will he suddenly change sex and have the potential to bear young (as do amphibians when populations are all female, i think)

      Actually, only some amphibian populations are like that. Amphibians in general have really wierd sex lives, though. I think it has to do with their hybrid air/water lives. Everything else about their biology is screwy, not to mention their lifestyle, that their sex life kinda has to be screwy... what other creature has first a fish society involving things as extant as schooling behaviour, and then completely sheds it to sit on the edge of a pond, croaking, attracting predators all day long?

      Anyways, getting to the point, there's even a race of frogs, I think they're in Africa somewhere, where all adults are female. Tadpoles are male. Tadpoles are also food. Adults would rather eat anything than species tadpoles, and prefer the tadpoles of other adults as opposed to their own. In areas where the frog is fairly succesful, you get a simple little ecology. Tadpoles eat pond scum and other simple plant life, and frogs eat the tadpoles. Highly succesful tadpoles eventually become frogs. Frogs lay eggs that are later fertilized by tadpoles.

      Caveat: this is all anecdotal, related to me by two sci-fi authors in the foreward of a series of books based on the idea (Legacy of Heorot and it's sequel, by Larry Niven and Steve Pournelle), a magazine article author who didn't provide any references, and a friend of mine who's somewhat of a rennaissance man. So while I have no doubt that the above story is somewhat based in reality, certain features may be inflated. For instance, I have some question as to whether a frog would eat tadpoles.

      --
      I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  16. what a bunch of whiners by GunFodder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This looks like a clever way to exercise one's professional tools to solve a trivial yet interesting problem. Why are all of you whiners jumping on him?

    One factor that he left out was the attrition of vampires due to recovered conscience or suicide, which might be high considering their lifestyle. There must be a percentage of vampires that accidentally get caught in sunlight as well, although those dim bulbs might be the kinds that get slayed eventually anyway. Other than that the numbers look good.

    1. Re:what a bunch of whiners by Dirtside · · Score: 2

      Insofar as this is a real discussion ;) In the Jossverse, there have been only a tiny number of vampires that have committed suicide. Not a single one of them has ever "recovered conscience," although two vampires (Spike and Angel) have ended up with souls, so they have, in a manner of speaking, recovered their consciences -- but not through introspection, or anything, merely ("merely") through magical intervention.

      As far as suicide goes... only Darla (when she gave birth to Connor) and the vampire in the first episode of Angel season 3 (who had a magical operation to remove his heart, making him unkillable for 24 hours before he self-destructed) have ever really "committed suicide". There might be others but I don't think they would have a significant impact on the population.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    2. Re:what a bunch of whiners by darien · · Score: 2

      Hey, give the guy a break - it may not have been screened in that his country yet. With a name like "Anonymous Coward," I'd guess he's French.

  17. Article is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can't beleive this paper got published, are you kidding me? He fails to take into account trolls and werewolves, which would skew the numbers towards vampires, as they are natural allies. I too am scientist in the field of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and am preparing my own study, but unlike this quack I'm not throwing it out unfinished in the hopes of garnering awards and acclaim. I hesitate to think of the damage that will be done when people use these figures in their studies.

    1. Re:Article is a joke by cookie_cutter · · Score: 3, Funny
      I hesitate to think of the damage that will be done when people use these figures in their studies.

      Indeed! I shudder to think of the droves of vampires moving to communities which can't possibly support them!

  18. vampire migration factor by urbazewski · · Score: 5, Funny
    from the article:
    Vampires are flocking to Sunnydale, since the Hellmouth is the underwordly equivalent of Silicon Valley, and the demon labor market is just too good to be true. Thus, we'll assume a yearly migration rate of about 10%, or the same as for the humans.

    It seems the author is forgetting about Angel --- Buffy spinoffs could make m, the rate of vampire migration negative. And should the exodus of VC's from Silicon Valley count as ex-migration of humans or of vampires?

    --
    foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
    1. Re:vampire migration factor by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 2

      And should the exodus of VC's from Silicon Valley count as ex-migration of humans or of vampires?

      I almost never use them, but sometimes I hate not having mod points...

      I was a dot-com burnout.

  19. He photoshopped what? by moogla · · Score: 2

    I mean, I didn't know here was a spirograph plugin for Photoshop. But "bad", I mean, you have to be really good to draw lines like that close together with a tablet, or even a mouse.

    Oh wait, you're not replying to the article are you. ::clicks on link to bakla.net::
    OMG!!!!

    --
    Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
  20. In other Buffy-esq News... by Cyno01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I just found out that even if Angel were still on the air, Doyle would not be coming back. On Tuesday Glenn Quinn, the actor who played Doyle, died of unrevealed causes. More on this here.

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
    1. Re:In other Buffy-esq News... by Dimensio · · Score: 4, Informative

      A number of people firmly believed that Doyle would somehow be 'brought back', even though Joss stated pretty soon after the character was killed off that he was only there (and in the opening credits) as a reminder to all that 'no one is safe' on Joss's productions.

      And, uh, Angel is still on the air. WB keeps screwing up its air time (went from Tuesday to Monday to Sunday and it will be moving to Wednesday soon) apparently because they want the show to fail out of spite, but it's still running.

    2. Re:In other Buffy-esq News... by Dimensio · · Score: 2

      Heh. Your misconception is a fear of many Angel fans, and possibly a vindication of their suspicions of what The WB is doing.

    3. Re:In other Buffy-esq News... by Cyno01 · · Score: 2

      Buffy is on UPN now, its a less common network for people to get than WB.

      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  21. Some People are just obsessed! by KristsInferno · · Score: 4, Funny

    I mean, come on! That is as bad as being one of those guys that constantly goes to a website, telling himself that it's "intelligent and newsworthy", but really just wants to post a load of crap to the net so that others might find him cool.


    Oh, shit, wait, I didn't mean.... damn.

  22. Ok, this is going to get me branded a geek... by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Informative

    actually, vampires can have kids with humands. Angel did it in his TV series, causing quite a plot element.

    Of course, it might be that vamps require a soul to be fertile...

    1. Re:Ok, this is going to get me branded a geek... by mattkinabrewmindspri · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, Angel had a kid with another vampire. Darla was a vampire, and everyone said that was a sign of the impending apocalypse.

    2. Re:Ok, this is going to get me branded a geek... by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've always wondered how the vampires can even get a stiffy since they don't have a heartbeat....

      Well, yeah, I am a geek and a think too much- so sue me.

      graspee

    3. Re:Ok, this is going to get me branded a geek... by bnenning · · Score: 2

      Wasn't Darla a vampire when Angel slept with her?

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
  23. Firefly on tonight by vandemar · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm venturing on to a gray area of on-topicness, but...

    For those of you who don't know, Joss Whedon, the creator of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, also has another genre show called Firefly.

    I just watched the latest episode (War Stories) tonight, and believe me when I tell you that if it hasn't aired in your timezone yet, you do not want to miss it. This one episode has got more character development, action (and I mean combat) and humor (and none of that slapstick stuff) than the entire season of Enterprise so far.

    Again, if you like Buffy (and even if you don't), don't miss tonight's Firefly. This one deserves high ratings, but that can only happen if people know it's being aired. So now you know.

    1. Re:Firefly on tonight by /dev/trash · · Score: 2

      VcR is set . . . Once the show goes on shcedule hiatus, which is Dec 12 I think that's when it dies, people hate look for shows.

    2. Re:Firefly on tonight by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 2, Funny
      how many Slashdotters have a Nielson box?

      Now there's a Slashdot poll I'd like to see. Though I think there would be a non-disclosure agreement of some kind involved when one gets a Nielsen box.

      No problem; here's how you do it:

      Do you have a Neilsen box on your TV?
      Yes
      No
      An NDA prevents me from answering that
      I don't have TV, you insensitive clod
      Cowboy Neal is on my TV

    3. Re:Firefly on tonight by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just watched it. Then had the misfortune of watching Men in Black II right after. Ugh! talk about a letdown.

      I've never been a big Buffy fan, but I have watched a few shows, and I've been impressed with the quality of the writing and the chemistry between the actors.

      Firefly has the same kind of humor that Buffy does. Joss seems to like poking fun at cliches (although this time, the good guys let the bad guy go instead of kicking him into an engine.) The acting is good. The characters are realistic and each have their own reasons for being on the ship.

      People have put Firefly down as a ripoff of Gene Rodenberry's 'Wagontrain to the Stars' idea, but from what I have seen, they have taken the idea literally and created a frontier that is more low tech and 'old west' in feel than anything in the Star Trek universe.

      As for MIB II, I wish I had a neuralyzer so I could wipe the memory from my mind.

      Oh yeah, and to everyone who didn't think the human-vampire ecology article was funny, or who thought it was a waste of time: good lord! you need a new humor chip upgrade.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  24. meanwhile, in another universe... by Ellen+Ripley · · Score: 5, Funny

    What he got was an equilibrium human population of 36,346, and an vampire population of around 18, and furthermore the equilibrium is stable.

    The Camarilla Princes are going to be really pissed when they find out they've been running at ( 1 / 10^5 ) / ( 18 / 36346 ) of their optimal capacity.

    We Sabbat knew better, of course.

    Cousin Ellen

    1. Re:meanwhile, in another universe... by Saxerman · · Score: 2
      The Camarilla Princes are going to be really pissed....

      The Princes are aware they could sustain a greater population level of Kindred, but seek to hide their presence by keeping their numbers few. The real trick in a Camarilla vampire/human ecology is for the vampires to keep the humans unaware of their presence.

      The Sabbat believe they could live openly, and control their human herds through liberal application of Disciplines. The Camarilla know this would lead to another Dark Age of war and death, for if Buffy were to ever pierce the Masquerade, all Hellmouth would break lose.

      --

      A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.

  25. This can't possibly be right by gelfling · · Score: 3, Funny

    They're ignoring the Infinite Alternate Universes theory as posited by Dr. Qrlang in New Superman #35.

  26. I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comments) by moogla · · Score: 5, Interesting

    is that it's remarkable how (after making basic assumptions) the very ideas of a stable vampire/human equilibrium are sound, and they are consistent with the "normal" Buffy universe. Many television shows and movies are mathematically improbable in even the most basic sense (like the ecosystem in the Matrix, for example). More importantly, we can assume that this was not intentional on the writer's part, I'm sure they wouldn't even grasp the "classic problem"; they probably didn't study engineering or mathematics in school. What the author of the study doesn't state, but I will, is the implication of his exercise in intellectual masturbation taken with the previous assumption.
    Why would it work out, what made these writers different than other writers? I think it's a plot driven element, and a reflection of the real causes of social attitudes. I'm willing to venture a guess that they (the writers) kept the number of vampires and incidents in the series low so that it would seem more likely people wouldn't realize that there were real vampires around in the fictional Buffy scenario. From this, we determine vampires could exist in stable equilibrium if this was the case. If the prey on the show knew about the predators in a larger sense, the equations wouldn't be so simple any longer, and the stable equilibrium would be lost. What we consider "under the radar" and thus unnoticed is a perfect niche for small, select groups of predators to operate within, in REAL life. So in conclusion, the writers are clearly not buffoons, and your neighboor IS a vampire.
    QED.

    --
    Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
  27. Re:What A Waste by Jester99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Right. Because Ph.D. students never have free time. They spend all their time on serious, groundbreaking research, only. And Ph.D. students never have their own webspace. If it's on the Internet, it must be a serious, peer-reviewed, critically analyzed piece of high academic merit.

    And in that supposed "free time" that Ph.D. students don't have, they'd never think about writing a mock paper using some differential equations that any second-year science student would understand because it amuses them.

    For Christ's sake, the guy watches Buffy (Yes, Ph.D. students at Universities do other things besides do research and contribute to "political, social, and scientific development;" sometimes they even watch television!) and ran some variables through a model, wrote up a silly paper, and published it on his web page.

    It's funny. Laugh. ;)

  28. Re:I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comment by dvdeug · · Score: 2

    More importantly, we can assume that this was not intentional on the writer's part, I'm sure they wouldn't even grasp the "classic problem

    I'm not sure that's fair to the writers and directors. The predator-prey/vampire-human problem is fairly fundamental to the internal realism of the show, and IMO the writers of Buffy took care to try and keep the internal realism of the show fairly high.

  29. Re:Excuse me? by dwarfviking · · Score: 5, Informative
    ...and furthermore the equilibrium is stable...

    Did you think, at all, before you wrote that? What do you think "equilibrium" means?

    In dynamics, an equilibrium point is a steady-state of the system: that is, a set of values for the system such that, if the system is set to that point, the system will no longer change.

    What do you think "stable" means?

    In this context, "stable" means that, if you move the system slightly away from the equilibrium point, it will naturally move back to the equilibrium point. On the other hand, an unstable system, when perturbed from the equilibrium point, will not return to that point.

    So, for example, the point of an inverted cone is an unstable equilibrium point. I can balance a ball on it, and it won't go anywhere; but move it ever-so-slightly, and it will fall down. On the other hand, the bottom of a conical pit is stable; move the ball anywhere up from the bottom, and it will just fall back down again.

    These are basic definitions for this sort of mathematics. It probably wouldn't hurt, under the circumstances, to assume the author knows what's he talking about, you know.

    --
    Bjorn Christianson
  30. Re:Excuse me? by Servants · · Score: 2, Informative

    A stable equilibrium is one that's robust to little nudges - it tends to go back towards the equilibrium point all by itself.

    An unstable equilibrium is more like a ball on top of a hill. It's in equilibrium because it isn't going anywhere; but the equilibrium is unstable because a small push will destroy this particular equilibrium permanently.

    That's the concept underlying the big spiral graph, by the way.

  31. Re:Right... by shaitand · · Score: 2

    This has been said 6 times or so already, please take away the insightfulness modding.

  32. Re:What A Waste by Yankovic · · Score: 2

    Dan--

    Normally I'm a big fan, but really this seems unrealistically harsh. This entire thing couldn't have taken him more than a couple hours, and I'm sure as a sum total many many more hours are wasted by PhD students WATCHING buffy than presenting this. And probably orders of magnitude more than that are spent reading and posting to slashdot! (to say nothing of the work force :) The real problem is I'm not sure if you joking or not :)

  33. Re:What A Waste by crush · · Score: 2

    Give me a break. The guy is flexing the intellectual muscles that he's gained during his population ecology studies. It's a little bit of fun and I'd rather he did this than many other things.

  34. Re:I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comment by shaitand · · Score: 2

    You think the internal realism of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER is really high? By exactly what definition of reality? Buffy is a low budget vampire and hot chick based soap drama for godsake!

  35. Re:Or how about this one... by jonr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where in heck does this #"$& soviet jokes come from? Did it originate here, like the "insensitive clod" and Natialie Portman? Or is something like "All your base are belong to us"?
    J.

  36. We need to calculate the buffy factor... by shaitand · · Score: 3, Funny

    It is without a doubt established that buffy is hot, how many male vampires will forsake their own kind to nail buffy??? This must be calculated into the equation.

    1. Re:We need to calculate the buffy factor... by outsider007 · · Score: 2

      It is without a doubt established that buffy is hot, how many male vampires will forsake their own kind to nail buffy???

      only 2 so far.
      dracula got close...

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    2. Re:We need to calculate the buffy factor... by /dev/trash · · Score: 2

      That Dracula episode was . . . I dunno I want to say stupid, but it was sorta funny: "I've seen you movies, you always come back." "I'm standing right here!"

    3. Re:We need to calculate the buffy factor... by /dev/trash · · Score: 2

      two so far...Angel and Spike. God knows how many more wanna get close to her just to say so.

  37. His numbers are way off !!! by The+Famous+Druid · · Score: 2, Funny

    He assumes that buffy and her gang slay 6 vamps per year. I've seen single fight-scenes with a higher score than that.

    Assuming an average of 3 Vamps dusted per episode, and there are, what, about 24 episodes per season? That's 72 per year, or 4 times the total vamp population !

    Mind you, you could change your assumptions for Vampire 'birth rate' to have each vamp sire a new one on average every 3 months, and the sums would probably work out ok.

    --
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
  38. Re:You can get a Ph.D for that?! by dbenhur · · Score: 3, Informative

    Brian Thomas is a PhD candidate in ecology at Stanford University in California. He used MATLAB (running on a Sun Solaris 2.7 workstation and commanded remotely through Telnet) to manipulate equations and run the model. He'd like to thank Dr. Joan Roughgarden for teaching him the vast majority of what he knows about population dynamics, and he would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on this little treatise, because he is keen on spending a goodly portion of his career communicating science to intelligent but non-technical audiences (like you!).

  39. Guys chill out by CableModemSniper · · Score: 2

    Think of this as a lego story. Sure maybe its silly and pointless, but it was fun for the guy who did it. And for chrissakes he did it on he's free time FOR FUN. This isn't his dissertation, no tax dollars were harmed in the production of this paper. He just HAPPENS to be a PhD candidate, and student of ecology.

    --
    Why not fork?
  40. This should be put in the Slashdot faq temporarily by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

    It started with this comedian (Yakov Smirnov) who made jokes about the US vs. dead USSR right after the cold war. In particular the jokes would switch subject and object around the verb (which you can do by accident if you're Russian struggling with English). For example, "in South Cali, you can always find a party. In old Soviet Russia, the Party finds YOU!!!"

    In any case, this was picked up by Family Guy and The Simpsons recently, involving a russian language feature of one of those navigation computers in a car. I assume this is where the Slashbots picked it up. Trolls use it at the drop of a hat now, without thought.

    I, on the other hand, am genuinely trying.
    ::coy smile::

    PS - The believe whole "insensitive clod" thing has an origin on British TV of yesteryear, and then later in crusty manpages and fortune files. It surfaces on slashdot because we're into that sort of crap. We spell demon with an æ (aelig) too!

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  41. Re:Or how about this one... by breon.halling · · Score: 2

    I imagine the forums goons over at Fark and Something Awful have a lot to do with this particular cliche.

    --
    "Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
  42. Re:No no, allow /me/ by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 2

    He is not getting a PhD for this, no one is considering or has ever considered getting a PhD for this. No one has even implied that this is the case.
    So I guess your real problem is that Slashdot doesnt have "Fucking Moron" listed as a reason. [I do protest this, I sorely wish for a "Fucking Moron" option, as I have been forced to mod many non-trollic posts as 'troll' simply because it is the closest option availible]

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  43. Re:I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comment by Planesdragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Have you ever watched it?

    And I mean really watched it, sat down and watched the two-hour roughly-in-order shots on FX at 7:00 EST?

    It's quite possibly the best-written low-budget hot chick show ever. Every inconsistency is either explained away or simply believable, given a simple modicum of suspension_of_disbelief.

    Contrast this with, oh, Star Trek or Andromeda or Farscape, or the other common "sci fi" series setups, and you'll see the "internal realism" he was talking about.

  44. Re:I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comment by shaitand · · Score: 2

    I admit, I'm not the most knowledgeable on the shows and haven't watched much. I just occasionally caught brief glimpses of what appeared to be vampire based 90210 with only one hot chick.

  45. Re:another boring slashdot story by MoneyT · · Score: 2

    As opposed to the really exiting stories like:

    Another No-name company adopts linux

    Intel releases faster processors

    Microsoft products have bugs

    New software released

    DMCA used in another crappy suit

    Another stupid patent granted

    Come on. If Slashdot was meant to be exciting, it wouldn't be news for nerds.

    Note: The above is not flamebait or trolling, it was self depreciating humor.

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  46. Re:What A Waste by MoneyT · · Score: 2

    Universities used to be hotbeds of politicial, social, and scientific development, thought, and research.

    That stopped being true the moment College became a natural extention of ones learning and not for the professionals. Let's face it, so many people that have a degree would have been better off just entering the work force. Their degree does nothing for them, they're still low paid and they're 4 years behind practical experience.

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  47. There's one problem with this paper... by Lendrick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It doesn't take into account how the citizens feel. Having grown up in a town of 40,000, I can tell you that one murder was pretty big news. I can only recall hearing about murders two times during my ten or so years living there. Even assuming that I missed a few, that still wouldn't account for 18 vampires feeding once every three days (that's 2190 deaths per year--13 percent of the total murder rate for the ENTIRE UNITED STATES (~16000/yr)).

    Anybody with half a brain would have moved out of that town long ago... and people ceratinly wouldn't be moving in.

    1. Re:There's one problem with this paper... by Machine9 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Nobody ever said a vampire has to kill the creature from which it feeds...

      Imagine a vampire grabbing someone from behind and sucking them till they pass out.

      That's how they did it in Vampire:The Masquerade from White Wolf, furthermore, in that game, if a avampire licks the bite wound it closes quickly, hiding the evidence...clever...

      Of course one may wonder how many Sunnydale vamps get a chance to feed before being staked...

    2. Re:There's one problem with this paper... by Hal-9001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You fail to take into account that death by vampire would not appear in murder statistics, since the body remains and continues to live a pretty normal life (besides the whole blood sucking thing). Even the new nocturnal sleep cycle might not stand out, seeing as how Sunnydale is a college town and all.

      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
  48. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  49. Actually, by geekoid · · Score: 2

    Actually, if you are looking for good buffy information, you need to go outside and get some fresh air.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Actually, by $rtbl_this · · Score: 2

      With an attitude like that you may want to think about picking a new handle. :)

      --
      "Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
    2. Re:Actually, by Hadean · · Score: 2

      You already mentioned you hated Buffy with other posts, so why do you keep posting on this story?

      Some people like TV shows: Since I don't have cable, Buffy is one of the only good shows on TV and I ended up liking it. And since it's -20 Celcius right now, I'll choose indoors. It, sometimes the news and This Hour Has 22 Minutes are the only shows I watch on TV, so yes, I -do- have a life, 'geekoid'.

  50. I hate buffy.. by geekoid · · Score: 2

    ..but firefly is one of the best shows, ever.

    The show has great characters, great writing, some of the best villians, great action sequences, surprise tweists and really cool effects.
    But in tonight episode, that had all that AND a lesbian encounter.
    in short...
    Best...show...ever.

    Smile, it was funny.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  51. but by geekoid · · Score: 2

    them walking around doesn't bother you? you are a geek. Welcome, friend.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  52. Re:What A Waste by geekoid · · Score: 2

    "...sometimes they even watch television!"

    yeah, but Buffy?

    It's funny. Laugh. ;)

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  53. Re:I think the point (mentioned in the ed. comment by JabberWokky · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Jumping in here, I too thought it was "Xena does 90210", and wrote it off as idiotic tripe. Then I realized that most authors I know are raving fans, along with two literature professors I know and a friend who writes mideval frame tales for fun. So I gave it a shot.

    It takes a handful of episodes to 'get it'. It really is phenominally deeply well written. It also has self parodying fluff on top that is, at it's best, witty banter that rivals Oscar Wilde. Once you're in, you realize that these are really well written episodes. As you watch, you realize the season has a structure. As you watch seasons, you realize that the seasons have a pattern and the entire show, has a structure where things from season three play out in season six, and themes that are treated one way in season two (when they are in high school) are revisited and reexamined in season six (when she's trying to raise her little sister after her mother dies).

    It does parody itself, but it's a tongue in cheek, knowing parody when it does. Buffy will acknowledge in side comments about her wardrobe. In season five and six, when things get much more 'real' and very gritty, they still have their Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (and Johnathan), who lighten things up, but wind up with a similar end.

    Good writing, surprisingly good acting (even Sarah Michelle Gellar, who I thought was a ditzy figurehead of the show until Season 5's 'The Body')... it's a great show. There's a reason some people say it's the best thing on television.

    --
    Evan

    --
    "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  54. To quote a famous movie: by fireboy1919 · · Score: 2

    You can major in GameBoy if you know how to BS.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  55. No! This is nuts! by fireboy1919 · · Score: 2

    I remember High School. I remember when someone died. One guy got drunk and jumped onto the highway.

    One had a disease and died from that.

    I think there were two others - people I didn't know. I went to a High School of about 2000 in Orlando, Fl.

    If there was JUST ONE person at my high school whose neck was nearly ripped out and blood drained, it would have been a big deal - it would have seemed unreal.

    I remember watching an episode of this show where the principal was eaten by a pack of werewolves, who themselves were students who were later killed.

    And in the graduation episode, the mayor turned into a giant monster and destroyed the school.

    Someone from the High School dies almost every episode. There is no way this is realistic . There is no way this accounts for a stable population - its B.S. Vampires aren't the only thing that kill in Sunnydale.

    Of course, I must admire such a great work of BS.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  56. Re:A Few Too many assumptions by mgv · · Score: 2

    Actually, the biggest false assumption I can see here was the number of kills Buffy does. This was raised in series four when she was talking to the initiative, discussing the number of kills she had. From memory, it was thousands, or several per night (which is pretty much in keeping with what you see on the show). Even at one per night (way too low from what I've seen) that would be 365 per year, or alot more than was assumed on the web site.

    Michael

    --
    There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
  57. Chemical (in)stability of Dilitium cyrstals by spineboy · · Score: 2

    I knew I was at a geeky college (Johns Hopkins) when the prof. proved during the first day of advanced inorganic chemistry thant dilitium crystals were chemically and energistically unstable and could not be created. Of course we didn't look into other things which might have made it feasible.

    I thought "Wow, this is really funny", and then I was somewhat disapointed that the cyrstals couldn't work. Kinda like being told there was no Santa

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:Chemical (in)stability of Dilitium cyrstals by sg_oneill · · Score: 2

      Actually, not being a physics guy and all, I've always wondered how they actually contain all that antimatter in startrek without stuff ,like, cancelling each other out and blowing the crap outa everything.

      A physics mate told me that a nuke is about 10% efficient in converting stuff to energy and that antimatter cancellation is 100% efficient. Never got around to asking him how one would stop that happening.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
  58. But.... by katalyst · · Score: 2

    It's never that simple, is it? You always have the extra unexpected/unpredictable element : Yah, even in case of vampires. Consider Blade ][; it wasn't just vampires and humans. You have the daywalker(aka blade) and you have the reapers. I guess the large number of vampires can be attributed to the larger size of the study area.
    The equation between vampires and humans is interesting; but why ignore these other elements? (unless ofcourse this is a BUFFY fan analysis)

    --
    |/________
    |\A|ALYS|
  59. Sunnydale is much too easy by panurge · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm waiting for the Thomas analysis of populations in Ankh-Morpork. There should be sufficient information in the Pratchett oeuvre. How many trolls? How many dwarves? And exactly how big is Unseen University?

    There must be someone out there prepared to sponsor a Chair of Imaginary Population Studies and give this guy a job.

    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  60. Total bollocks by nagora · · Score: 2
    The average BIRTH rate for the US is 14.7 per 1000 population. Even if there were no deaths of any kind other than those due to vampires Sunnydale's population (birth rate 385 per year) could only support one or two vampires (assuming 150-200 victims per vamp per year). The real total would be lower due to natural deaths and the huge rush of people leaving a town with that number of murders per capita.

    Rabbits and foxes are not a good model since humans can and would leave the area as fast as they could. Even Willow wouldn't be enough to keep me around that bloodbath. Probably. Well...

    TWW

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  61. Re:What A Waste by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2

    False.

    Well, technically you're correct.

    Private students regurarly get massive financial aid - more than public school students because of higher costs - which is either grant based or in the form of subsidized loans.

    Get a grip, you speak as if they're just pissing it away on any schmuck. Nitpicking on subsidized loans is ridiculous. The taxpayer and shylock loses the percentage difference in interest, defaulting loans, and potential investment income from the taxed. As for grants, they're heavily skewed towards the poor, and they require some form of academic performance to maintain the grant. Or they are part of the payment for service in the Armed Forces. On the graduate level, there is much better rate of return from the grant.

    They are in fact wasting valuable tax money with this crapola. Plus, these Unversities get tax breaks, research grants, etc.

    Its a government investment in its intellectual talent. Bottom line is that we're better off investing in bright poor people to go to college, where we'll see payoff in higher salaries to tax and to fill critical knowlege positions in the future. Grants on the graduate level are quite competitive and they are not being doled out for basket weaving classes. Its surely a better use of tax dollars than bumbling NASA, or initiating an armed conflict in Iraq, or subsidizing agrocorporations.

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  62. You're Absolutely Right... by big_groo · · Score: 2

    in fact, it says so right AT THE TOP OF HIS WEB PAGE!!!

    And now, for your amusement and stimulation,

    Just affirms my (and other's) belief that NO ONE reads the articles before posting.

  63. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  64. Re:What A Waste by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 2


    What a coincidence. Are you employed? Then what are hell you doing here reading and posting to slashdot? You should be focusing on your job, like those Ph.D candidates. (Do we have to spell it out to you, ITS NOT REAL DOCTORATE WORK!)

    --
    There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  65. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  66. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  67. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  68. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  69. Re:What A Waste by Hal-9001 · · Score: 2

    By your logic, military personnel, whose wages are fully subsidized by taxpayers, should not be allowed to sleep or eat, and certainly should not be granted leave or R&R, because every minute of that time could be spent hunting from Osama Bin Laden or invading Iraq. That's just a small subset of government personnel, all of whom are on taxpayer's tab, and all of whom are given sleeping time and eating time and vacation time and sick leave, which is an immeasurable waste of taxpayers money.

    Also, by your logic, if your company were to receive a government contract, your logic says that I, a taxplaying citizen, get to rescind all your free time because all that free time is pissing away my tax money.

    This guy did this in his free time. The fact that he had some free time and a creative outlet might indirectly (or maybe even directly) inspire him to develop a cure for cancer, in which case that free time pays for itself. Depriving him of all free time and creative outlets almost certainly would result in him going insane, in which case your imagined tax dollars are wasted anyway. Give him (and grad students and researchers everywhere) a break--they deserve it.

    --
    "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
  70. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  71. I'm shocked and disgusted by Grizzlysmit · · Score: 2, Funny
    from the article
    Without showing you the really ugly math (after all, this is a family forum),

    repeat after me all maths is fun and wonderful. Mathematically, we need a little bit of matrix algebra. We start by constructing a Jacobian matrix, .... We could do all of that right here, but frankly I don't enjoy it. Besides which, I can just about guarantee that you are more interested in the ecology of vampire populations than in their theoretical mathematical peculiarities.

    He's a very naughty boy, hes's insulted my mathematical sensibilities, so I'm not going to play with him any more, :-)#

    seriously thats a fun article.

    --
    in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that :-D
    Francis Smit
  72. Re:Excuse me? by merlin_jim · · Score: 2

    ...and furthermore the equilibrium is stable...

    Did you think, at all, before you wrote that? What do you think "equilibrium" means?

    It is possible to have unstable points of equilibrium. As a matter of fact, in chaotic systems, stability is a range, not a quality.

    For instance, chaoticians talk about stability vs. small perturbations as seperate from basic stability.

    As an example, there is a Lagrange point of gravitational equilibrium between the Earth and the Sun. This is a point where the gravity of the earth equals the gravity of the sun. All the forces of the system balance out and cancel. Unfortunately, this point is not stable, even against small perturbations. Any perturbation, even one caused by random atomic motion (i.e. "heat") is enough to cause one force to be greater than the other. In other words, while this system has a point of equilibrium, it tends not to be in equilibrium.

    However, there are other systems that tend towards equilibrium. A spherical pit is an example. A marble at any location in the pit tends to drive the system toward it's point of equilibrium; where the marble is in the bottom center. If you perturb the marble in any way, it will tend to come back to rest in the center. If you perturb it hard enough, it CAN fly right out of the pit. So there's a certain amount of perturbation that the system is stable against. Make a bigger pit or a heavier marble or steeper sides and you increase that stability. Make the pit shallower or smaller, or lighten the marble and you decrease the stability.

    If you were a physicist, you would characterize this system as having a certain stability, represented by the amount of work required to push the system out of equilibrium. For instance, if you had to push the marble at 10 Newtons for 1 second to just barely push it out of the pit, you could say that the system is stable against 10 Newton-seconds, which I believe are called Joules.

    Make the pit so shallow that its perfectly flat, and the system has an infinity of equilibriums, that is at every point the forces in the system balance, but no stability; the system doesn't prefer to be in any particular state.

    --
    I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  73. Re:What A Waste by Hal-9001 · · Score: 2

    Even government employees (soldier, civil servants, etc.), who are directly compensated by taxpayer money, have free time--hours when they aren't working which they can spend sleeping or eating or shopping or watching TV or analyzing the population dynamics of Buffy or reading Slashdot. This graduate student is only indirectly compensated by taxpayer money, if at all--why can't he have free time and why can't he spend his free time doing whatever he wants (laws permitting)? You seem to think that by accepting governmental funding, graduate students should become academic slave labor. I find that notion offensive and hypocritical and, in protest, I will continue waste your tax money by sleeping and eating and doing whatever the hell I want (like reading and posting on Slashdot) on weekends. :-p

    --
    "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
  74. Re:What A Waste by Jester99 · · Score: 2

    If the future of the academic elite cannot crack a joke without the rest of society jumping all over him... I weep for the future.