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Thoughts on the MSN Web TV Device?
elmore asks: "I was watching television tonight and saw a commercial for the new MSN web TV device. Normally I completely dismiss anything Microsoft comes up with but this seems pretty nifty. I like this device because my grandparents and my mother are fairly...'challenged'...when it comes to the internet. Sticking with my gut, I'd like to ask the Slashdot community what web TV devices you've seen and/or given to your internet 'challenged' family or friends."
I cannot stress enough, how much grief this device has saved me.
My parents (one below 70 in age, and one above 70) used to bug me all the time about controling the VCR.
With the TIVO, I have had few questions (every now and then when the power goes out, they need help with getting the VCR inbeteween back to AU for input).
It is simple enough that my parents can control it. I cannot recommend it enough.
Speaking as the person that usually gets phoned up whenever a computer starts acting up, I would really appreciate a maintenance free solution that would allow people to browse the internet and write documents. Even if it is made by Microsoft.
Pathman, Free (as in GPL) 3D Pac Man
I found it here the other day, but I haven't seen any real advertising push for it yet...
...if you want to keep them permanently challenged.
You may initially not have to provide tech support, but you will eventually. Grandma will want to know how to do all the things her friends can with their PCs, and you'll not only have to teach her how to use a computer, you'll have to un-teach her WebTV.
...
I bought a WebTV for my grandmother. Its great, she can get on and send email around, surf the web, shop for her antiques on ebay and do cool stuff.
The downsides : No local storage for images or emails. She has to re-download stuff every time. And her email gets purged after a while, so she can't save that new grandchild picture forever
No games (not a big deal for my grandmother, but dont buy it for your 15 year old cousin!)
No wordproccessing/excel/etc. My grandmother would have some use for Word, so she could write letters to her lawyer, or to different companies/groups, but she doesnt have this.
The deal with WebTV, is know what you are buying, and what you need. If its just for email, and surfing, its great. If you want more than that, go buy them a 300$ computer at best buy, or (shudder) a mac!
Oh, and make sure you buy the keyboard, it makes everything MUCH easier than typing with a remote control
My siblings and I bought a Web TV for my parents, both in their 70's, both raised Amish, so they aren't the most technologically able people. It works very good for them. It's simple, they can surf and get e-mail, and because there is no hard drive and no "real" OS, viruses don't affect them. Sure, its uses are limited, but as long as you know exactly what you're going to use it for, it works quite well.
Microsoft's experience in embedded (WinCE, PocketPC, XBox?) keeps me confident that this device is thin enough to fit in a tiny parking lot and produce less noise than a minor jet engine.
Sorry for bashing. I guess I should say: "Welcome to the embedded market, Microsoft. (Again)"
My father is about 69. Although he used to be a jet fighter piolot and has a higher propinsity for understanding technology, before last Christmass, he had absolutly no contact with the Internet.
I could never convence him to buy a computer and quite frankly, he doesn't really need one. The only thing that I could realy see him enjoying is surfing the web, using email, and using instant messenger, so I purchased a Philips WebTV Plus for him and he has never looked back. I am not sure what is out these days, but the unit I purchased him has MSN instant messenger built in, email, browser, printer port, and memory expansion.
He absolutely loves it and found it easy enough to use without any help from me. Keep in mind that he had no idea what the Internet really was the day he opened the present.
You can find a bunch of units on ebay by searching for Philips WebTV.
Either forward it to yourself, or to someone who will print it out and save it for you.
TaDa!
hmmm
you can get them for about $45 now. they have built in 56k and availabale brodband support. There is an available mouse and keyboard that can be had for about $30 together, otherwise i think theres a ps2 to dc converter. your local funcoland will most liokely be willing to give you the web browser disk, otherwise its like 79cents.
so for about $70 your up and running.
also you can play games that are still awesome, of which many will appeal to the older audience, my grandpa loves chu chu rocket! plus if they dont like it you can keep it and run a whole crap load of homebrew software, and emulators.
I want 2D games back.
(Before we start, let me mention I used to work for them, so this isn't just mad bashing, this was the policy I observed)
These will only get support using M$ as the ISP, if you try to go with another, you're going to have an uphill battle.
We were directly told to keep tech information about the web tv from the customer, like how to get it to work with other password formats than MSN's, and how to reset the firmware (even their embedded systems needed reboots?!).
Again, this was back when WebTv was another corp that had been recently been eaten by M$, I don't know if the design changed to be friendlier to other ISPs, but (ahem) I don't imagine that they went out of their way to have some competition.
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
We got a Phillips WebTV unit for my husband's parents about 3+ years ago. (If my understanding is correct the new MSN ones are just the latest incarnation of the same machine). It works great for email and simple web surfing, which is about all they need it for. I don't like using it because its frustrating as hell not to have control of what's going on and to be able to multi-task, but for people who've never used computers and have no desire to, it's great.
:-) I guess they think going off to use the computer by yourself in some small room isn't as desirable as doing it socially and both getting to read the messages together. (That social aspect, and everyone seeing what you're looking at, could be very undesirable for some people).
The thing they most like about it, is that it appears on the TV. Since they have a very large TV, its very easy to read. Also, they said if they had a computer they'd have to go off into another room or office to use it, rather than doing it from the comfy chairs in the living room.
As another person has said, definitely get the keyboard. Using the remote is a pain. The only major thing we've had a problem with is that the keywords seem to be somewhat fragile or break easily. We've already had to order them a replacment once, and it looks like we might have to again.
My biggest frustration is the page size limit. When visiting a page such as E-Bay that has dozens of listings, the page cuts off and displays a warning about the page being too large. You can't get to the end of it then! I don't know if this problem is caused by the physical viewing size of the page (since webtv resizes things and makes pages much longer), or the time it takes to download. Same problem with Hotmail, but there at least I could limit the messages per page for them so they could see them all.
All in all IMO the device has its uses, but isn't for everyone.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Technology requires education. There is no "magic bullet". Driving a car takes lessons, an understanding of how a clutch works, and practice. Operating a forklift requires skill, and an understanding of how all the buttons and levers work. Performing brain surgery requires time and devotion to the craft.
People have watched too much TV - there is no "Computer" that you can talk to like on Star Trek. Computer technology is no different than other technology - sewing machines, lawn mowers. Face it: THERE IS A LEARNING CURVE.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
They might not be as challenged as you thought.
With some well-placed desktop short-cuts/launchers, and menus, I was able to get my mom, who is one of the most non-technical people I know, to learn to use both win2k and rh linux for searching, downloading, and viewing her soap operas and related materials. Recently, she even taught her self to look for on-line flash games.
Now my new problem is that I can get her off the PC....
...putting Linux on one of these I can imagine a Mosix cluster of them.
It used to be WebTV, M$ bought it, after a while they changed the name to MSN TV.
She lost a couple due to power surges or something, but I could always find the "classic" model on sale cheap somewhere. (vanns.com once, BestBuy B&M another time). She's had Phillips, Sony, and RCA, I think.
Surfing is possible, but the resolution causes problems, especially with sites with > 2 columns, like slashdot.org, my.yahoo.com, etc. The "big column" gets squished pretty small.
Overall I recommend the classic and a keyboard. (I hope the classic's haven't been discontinued.) If they're not-tech savvy, expect some support calls. That's been a little challenging for me, given that I don't have a WebTV and she's 700 miles away.
Oh yeah, service. My mom's in a fairly rural location and WebTV didn't have a POP nearby. So she had to pay a compatible ISP ~$20 and a reduced WebTV fee ~$10. Since then, they did get a POP and she dropped the ISP and just pays WebTV ~$20. But she never would have known if I wasn't registering a new box after one fried.
If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.
It sucked. My grandparents got one as a gift from my aunt and uncle for the purpose of e-mail and to get pictures of their new grandson at the time. I used it once when I was there and it was a pain to do anything. It was impossible to navigate pages, download times were slow, and there was no flexibility to add something like an external drive for pictures. There were only one or two choices for printers for it as well. I hope that things have changed on both of those fronts...
No TiVo and no caffeine make me something something...
The thing is intolerably slow - not because it's dialup, but due to page rendering. The mail reader is also very slow to display messages or to go between screens. There is no way to mark a large number of messages at once for deletion. It isn't especially easy or intuitive to use, relying completely on keyboard shortcuts, as it doesn't have a pointing device. It's also rather difficult to read text on the TV screen. MSN doesn't have a local access number, so she goes through a local ISP and pays an extra $10/month for WebTV service. The infernal thing is slated for replacement with a $200 walmart PC running SuSE 8 - once set up, it won't ever need any maintenance, and I'll be able to provide step-by-step instructions if she ever has a problem. The promise of an internet appliance for 'the rest of us' is nice, but I have yet to see such a device.