Linux-Powered PVR/Satellite Machine

spicyjack writes "After reading this story, I thought this submit would be appropriate. A German company called Dream-Multimedia-TV has come up with a schweet custom box targeted for the PVR/Satellite markets. How about a machine with a 250Mhz IBM PowerPC, 2 SmartCard readers, one CompactFlash slot, UDMA66 IDE, MPEG2 support with MPEG4 (DivX) support on the way, Ethernet, LCD display, SPDIF out, yada yada yada (zipped User's Manual). Oh, and it is built specifically to run Linux. Available right now. Commence hacking!"

Comments

with a price tag of?

[Anonymous Coward]

aieee... how cheap can they get that box for nowadays?

less than $100???

grumble grumble... when i was a kid... 64 k was a whizbang computer... 300 baud modems... acoustic... uphill, in the snow, both ways....

damn kids...

Re:with a price tag of?

[adlai]

It's currently selling for 275 pounds (490 dollars) in the UK at this site (Satstore), with an explicit warning that "this box is still in development" and only interested enthusiasts should purchase it...

Re:with a price tag of?

[Scooter]

£323 (approx $500) inc tax from www.satstore.co.uk

I might just buy one. I doubt I could could build it cheaper - and it sure wouldn't look as pretty. With a bit of hacking, it should be able to play mpegs from my main fileserver...

I wish I could find some good Linux PVR software

[dcstimm]

I wish I could find some good Linux PVR software, tried mythtv but its only recommended with use with a tv out and a tv set and a remote, I need one I can use on my monitor with mouse support (so I can scroll up and down with my mouse).. Plus it needs to have smooth playback, unlike mythtv, I have dual p3 700mhz cpus, and mythtv runs like a dog on them.

Right now in linux I use "Vcr" to record tv shows, with this script:
#!/bin/bash
killall motv
killall xawtv
killall -9 vcr
vcr -g /dev/video0 -c 'divx ;-) low-motion' -v -p 40 -F 23 -q 100 -m mono -b 64 -t 60m savedshow.avi

What formats does this unit support?

[TheDigitalOne]

They mention satellite service in the article, but after (albeit briefly) browsing the German website I can't tell which services it is compatible with. I happen to use Dish PVR, I would love to move to an open source option!

Re:What formats does this unit support?

[Student_Tech]

Well in the specs the mention MPEG2, DVB compatible.
DVB page is http://www.dvb.org

A linux group working with some DVB cards can be found at http://www.linuxtv.org/dvb/

I haven't looked into it for a while but I don't think DISH or DirecTV use a pure DVB compatible signal, but I may be wrong.

Re:What formats does this unit support?

[jpt.d]

From what I remember on my previous research into this was that the Express-Vu up in Canada, which is a version of the dish network, uses DVB coupled with Nagravision - the protection mechanism.

Re:What formats does this unit support?

[Student_Tech]

Ok, I was wrong. The DVB site has under the supported items many things from Echostar (DISH) including some of the satellite receivers. Quick google seems to show that yes DISH is DVB ok.
Didn't see any Hughes (DirecTV) and from what it looks like (another google) they use an MPEG2 signal that isn't DVB compatible.

So it seems DISH yes DVB, DirecTV no DVB.

Re:What formats does this unit support?

[general_re]

They mention satellite service in the article, but after (albeit briefly) browsing the German website I can't tell which services it is compatible with. I happen to use Dish PVR, I would love to move to an open source option!

This isn't a replacement for the Dish subscription. Dish is sorta-kinda DVB-compatible - you can use a DVB receiver to pull in some of the Dish Network channels, but only the channels that are unencrypted. Which means that you won't get the channels you're probably most interested in - this box will not get you free HBO or free PPV movies, for example.

And just to round out the picture, DirecTV's feeds are entirely incompatible with DVB, so you won't pull in any DTV channels.

$499 euros?

[Gromph]

Only a 250 mhz processor and it's 499 euros which is about US $499. And this is a good thing why??

Re:$499 euros?

[w3svc_animal]

It seems they've priced it based on the idea, not necessarily the components.

Re:$499 euros?

[Enahs]

Either you're just trolling, or a bit slow, or both, but if you really think that clock speed is all that counts, obviously you've never worked with PowerPCs.

Re:$499 euros?

[malfunct]

My question is what speed PowerPC does the tivo use? If the system is 100% open and has the ease of use of the tivo I'd switch.

My only complaint about the tivo is I can't archive the videos on my computer (which means on dvd-r). I don't see how this is different than saving to a vhs tape other than the dvd-r would have a lower quality recording (tivo is pretty poor at encoding).

In the end the big bonus of this system over existing PVR solutions would be openness. I hope the openness isn't paired with low quality, hardly usable, half baked software. (sorry I'm jaded, if open source was as "good" as closed why is tivo very good, and I can't find an open PVR for my pc that works as well.)

Re:$499 euros?

[Tim Browse]

My question is what speed PowerPC does the tivo use?

50MHz.

Tim

Re:$499 euros?

[Ilgaz]

This is nothing, I saw a guy comparing a SGI to a "whopping 2Ghz" Dell... On Mhz speed of course.

Damn Mhz just doesn't go away.

Re:$499 euros?

[uradu]

> if you really think that clock speed is all that counts

Obviously you're one who thinks that the performance of PowerPC expands to beat any competitor at any given time. While the x86 and PPC are not comparable MHz for MHz, you can certainly figure out how much work each one does per cycle. Just for comparison, a dirt cheap throw away CPU nowadays would be a 1GHz Duron (around $35), which runs four times faster than this particular PPC. The PPC would have to execute four times more instructions per cycle than the Duron to be roughly comparable, and you can bet your life that it doesn't. So, all in all, while the PPC might be more efficient per cycle, it is not per dollar. IOW, for any given dollar amount you can buy considerably more raw processing power in an x86.

For example, check out the Epia boards from Via. For around $100 you get roughly the same processing power plus all conceivable peripherals on board. Add a $30 graphical LCD from Crystalfontz, get (or make) a suitable case, and you're set for WAY less than $500. Especially if hacking is what you want anyway, this approach is much cheaper and more flexible (not to mention more fun).

Re:$499 euros?

[mangu]

if you really think that clock speed is all that counts, obviously you've never worked with PowerPCs.

You are right. I had an application running in a 350 MHz AIX box, migrated it to a 800 MHz Pentium and now it runs 5+ times faster. Conclusion: with the same clock speed, a Pentium is 2.2 times faster than a PowerPC. Therefore, that 250 MHz PPC is equivalent to a 120 MHz Pentium.

Re:$499 euros?

[vanyel]

And it's very painful to use. I'm constantly waiting on the bloody thing. Heaven help you if you try to reorder your recording priorities while recording on both tuners. Go have dinner.

250MHz and DivX?

[Gaima]

Not wanting to dis the box at all, it looks damn cool, and I want one! But, isn't 250MHz just a little slow for mpeg4/divx encoding?
I remember reading about how, after lots of Intel tinkering, a 2GHz (ish) P4 could do realtime DivX encoding.
Maybe they'll use some specialist MPEG hardware...

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[parnold]

if you read the site its says that it won't do divx encoding only DECODING. and will proberly just use mpeg2 for the PVR functions. anyway a divx player is cool

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[BagOBones]

It has a hardware Mpeg2 Decoder... It saies Divx support to come so I would assume that it will be a one chip solution in furture models.

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[User 956]

But, isn't 250MHz just a little slow for mpeg4/divx encoding?

You've obviously fallen for the Wintel zealots' Megahertz Myth. A 250Mhz machine with a PowerPC processor is more powerful than a dual 3Ghz Xeon machine, in every benchmark. (Photoshop *cough* *cough* Photoshop).

Want proof? just step a little closer to Jobs' reality distortion field.

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[gl4ss]

depends on quality.

800mhz athlon could do some on the fly encoding when i tinkered around a year ago...

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[Ilgaz]

You can't make people understand Mhz hoax that way. Lets tell a different thing. I worked at TV.

Sony DFS-500 is kinda standard fx thing. In that thing, you can make live pictures form a "ball" with all the correct shades/lighting and bounce it. Same time you can add 10s of other fx. Those things are done REALTIME in BROADCAST quality.

Those Cray machines hardly pass 500 Mhz per CPU.

Sony PS/2 is 300Mhz 128bit RISC.

The processor in your cell phone, which does voice recognition is 36Mhz on some machines with DSP support.

Also... ITS A SET TOP BOX damned, it a consumer product. If it doesn't do that job right, you can RETURN it saying it doesn't work.

Now if someone said Quake III benchmarks on that thing... *g*

Re:250MHz and DivX?

[Klaruz]

Jeeze man, look at the date on the page. Sept 99. A quick google says that in sept 99 the fastest pc cpu was a 600mhz p3. I believe 450mhz g3s were shipping at the time.

I'm not going to get into the differences in the chips at the time, but apple's ads were pretty accurate. Today is a different story though.

Please step away from your distortion field.

Wouldn't this be cheaper to make

[teamhasnoi]

with an x86 box? And, could the linux software be ported to an old powermac? (or new one?)

Questions I'm sure will be answered on the next episode of 'Taken'.

Re:Wouldn't this be cheaper to make

[Sycraft-fu]

PPCs are actually pretty cheap when you are talking slower, embedded type processors. A low speed 750 or 7400 reall isn't all that much. The reason they tend to cost a whole lot in Macs is because Apple is using the top of the line and is pushing it as fast as it will go.

Motorola doesn't have quite the same luck Intel does with yeilds and also doesn't really produce to have the fastest thing on the face of the Earth. their intrest is mainly in embedded applications (fuel injection for example, may Fords have PPC's to control the injectors) where power consumtion, not speed, is key.

I imagine a 250mhz PPC is cheaper than a 250mhz x86 on teh simple virtue that they are still in procution. I don't think Intel makes anything less than a P3 these days in their x86 line. Their slow, low power line is the StronARM and Xscale.

Re:Wouldn't this be cheaper to make

[bhsx]

If you are really considering RYO PVR you should really check out the VIA EPIA series mobos. Embedded 533 or 800MHz C3s that run very cool and fanless. They also have TV out along with FireWire, USB on front and back, 10/100 and everything else onboard. Throw that, an ata100 hdd, 512MB and an All in Wonder Pro into this case with external power supply and you have a nearly Solid State (except the hdd) and silent(again, except the hdd) solution for around $300US. Not a bad way to go, though I've yet to get the spare cash to try it myself.

Re:I wish I could find some good Linux PVR softwar

[parnold]

try freevo, it can work quite well with a monitor & mouse. http://freevo.sourceforge.net

TiVo

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

TiVo already has a box like this. No, it doesn't have as many features. It's also $199.

DirecTV DVR powered by TiVo (basically a renamed Series II combo box) has a 200mhz MIPS processor, 32M of RAM, 2 tuners, hardware MPEG2 decoding, 40GB disk, USB 2.0, etc.

It's also powered by Linux.

Re:TiVo

[6hill]

TiVo already has a box like this.

And again, there are parts of the world where TiVo does not exist as a market entity. Say, most of Europe. (Not saying this thing is worth the dough they ask for it, only reminding that some of us live in countries where the number of options is severely limited.)

Is there a point?

[Nefrayu]

I can see wanting to make a swiss army knife set top box because it's fun, but other than that, why would you do such a thing? I can't see a need for all of that in one unit. Period. Why not make a sleek and specialized (and cheap) box instead?

It looks like Windows aint outta the picture yet

[teamhasnoi]

Do my eyes decieve me?

Perhaps its just a theme. I guess I'll find out on the next episode of 'Taken'.

Encoding, Yes...

[emkman]

But Decoding no. Perhaps they meant you can also watch your divx movies on the HD, along with your saved shows. I doubt your gonna find realtime divx/mpeg4 encoding around for less than 500$ total.

Better picts

[new500]

Here

that's http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/cat/pictures.php 4 for the still Goat conscious

A word of warning

[zztzed]

A word of warning to any Slashdotters who are thinking this might be a nice way to get around paying for a DirecTiVo (or DirecTV DVR as I think they're calling the Series 2 ones) or DishPVR:

I've looked into building my own satellite PVR, and from what I learned, I think I can safely say that this box in all likelihood will not work with DirecTV or Dish Network. DirecTV uses its own proprietary encryption scheme which isn't supported by anything but DTV-licensed receivers, and while Dish Network uses Nagravision encryption, which is supported by some things (like Hauppauge's WinTV DBS card), they marry their smartcards to their receivers, so a Dish Network smartcard will only work in the receiver in which it was first activated unless you hack it (and even then it may not work outside a Dish Network receiver). Basically, this thing is useless unless you want to use it to record free-to-air satellite broadcasts.

Re:A word of warning

[RomikQ]

Well, the thing with directv is although it's encoded, all the codes are on the internet, although the directv people change them about once a week. I have a friend who has an old pentium hooked up to his reciever through the card slot, and it gets new codes real-time. The card emulator-thingie costs $100. So I don't see why you couldn't combine all that into a pvr that would decode the stream.

disclaimer: this is all fiction, all my friends are law-obiding citizens that pay for their sattelite tv.

Re:A word of warning

[Anonymous Coward]

marry their smartcards to their receivers, so a Dish Network smartcard will only work in the receiver in which it was first activated unless you hack it

Not true. A receiver and smartcard can be remarried at any time. All it takes is a call into the Dishnetwork call center (pretty much any one of the 8, just pray that you don't get El Passo) an agent simply changes the hardware in their system CSG, and a supervisor sends a brixton reset. Magically your receiver is now married to a different smartcard.

I worked for Echostar for over a year. I did tech support. I know all kinds of tricks for their systems. I have even figured out how to get their programming for free, indefinately. I never did, because I value my anal virginity too much to go to jail for free TV.

One quick example, Know how they tell you that they can't remove a pay per view event from your system if you pre-order it? That's not true. Most agents simply do not know how to remove them, hell most supervisors don't know how. But it is possible.

Echostar intentionally keeps information from the public, and even their employees to maintain a level of security through obscurity.

Then don't even tell the tech support employees when they are sending out countermeasures. All of a sudden, you'd just get 80 calls with people who have error message 051.

Re:A word of warning

[zztzed]

Not true. A receiver and smartcard can be remarried at any time.
Erm, yeah. I was aware of this, however dimly, but it didn't really seem relevant, because you still need a receiver's serial number to marry the card to. A WinTV DVB card, even with the appropriate Nagravision CAM, won't provide this serial number to the smartcard, so you can't legitimately subscribe your own homebrew satellite PVR to Dish... unless you know something I don't.

Re:A word of warning

[general_re]

Good post. Glad to see good posts still exist around here ;)

DirecTV uses its own proprietary encryption scheme which isn't supported by anything but DTV-licensed receivers, and while Dish Network uses Nagravision [nagravision.com] encryption, which is supported by some things (like Hauppauge's WinTV DBS card), they marry their smartcards to their receivers, so a Dish Network smartcard will only work in the receiver in which it was first activated unless you hack it (and even then it may not work outside a Dish Network receiver).

I'd only add one small thing to this. You're absolutely right about not being able to pick up DTV channels - DirecTV has their own proprietary scheme which is incompatible with DVB. But Dish, OTOH, does broadcast some channels unencrypted, which you can pick up with a DVB receiver - the Lyngsat site can tell you which ones are FTA.

Of course, the channels people want for free (HBO, Showtime, whatever) are all encrypted by Dish, so thinking a DVB receiver will get you free HBO is hopeless, as you rightly point out.

Re:A word of warning

[zztzed]

Good post. Glad to see good posts still exist around here ;)
Heh heh. Thanks. :)

But Dish, OTOH, does broadcast some channels unencrypted, which you can pick up with a DVB receiver - the Lyngsat site can tell you which ones are FTA.
I just looked -- the only channels Dish broadcasts in the clear on CONUS are the barker channels (remote control help, 3-minute PPV/sports guide), the Muzak channels and one Sky Angel channel (I think...I saw it when I was skimming the lists but I couldn't find it again). There are also a few locals that are in the clear, but they're on spot beams.

I was aware that Dish broadcasts several channels unencrypted, but I didn't really feel like it was worth mentioning -- because like you said, these channels may be free, but no one wants 'em. :)

Re:A word of warning

[dschuetz]

Has anyone been able to convert a DirecTV TiVo unit (the Phillips units) to access the live MPEG stream (after decryption?) I'm interested not in getting free service, but in paying for it for a registered DirecTV unit, then slurping the MPEG data out an ethernet port to a central server. From there, I can send it to slimline, fan-less set-top boxes (yet to be built), so I'll have a centralized, networked, ubertivo.

It's difficult to search for this sort of information, as on most hacking sites they're either talking about adding a webserver to your TiVo unit (and any talk about getting streams is verboten as "piracy"), or they're talking about stealing the stream altogether (with emulation or whatever).

Re:A word of warning

[mgs1000]

Check out the Tivo video extraction forum at DealDatabase.com

Re:A word of warning

[vanyel]

Did they remove it after slashdotting? A search for "tivo" turns up nothing at all...

Re:A word of warning

[mgs1000]

Check the forums

Why bother?

[kilonad]

I also have DishPVR. It works, it's easy to use, it's built into your receiver already. You've already paid for it and you won't be getting your money back anytime soon, and if anything goes wrong with the DishPVR, you just have to call them up and they'll replace it or fix it. So why bother spending an extra $500 on an open-source option when what you've already got and paid for works just fine?

Re:Why bother?

[gosand]

I also have DishPVR. It works, it's easy to use, it's built into your receiver already. You've already paid for it and you won't be getting your money back anytime soon, and if anything goes wrong with the DishPVR, you just have to call them up and they'll replace it or fix it. So why bother spending an extra $500 on an open-source option when what you've already got and paid for works just fine?

Umm, because that is what Hacking is all about?

Yeah, why would a "consumer" buy this? They wouldn't. This story isn't about that. I honestly think you are trolling with this question. You might as well ask "Why would I need an operating system other than Windows? It works, everyone uses it, and Microsoft is the largest software company in existence."

It's about hacking, about learning, about tinkering, about not just sitting on your ass and getting spoon-fed everything. No, it isn't for everyone. I can't afford one of these to hack, but I hope some people can and do, if only for the simple sake of doing it. What is the point, you may ask? Well, what is the point of sitting and watching TV? Think about that one...

Sony's Vaio Solution [Slightly OT]

[zwoelfk]

For anyone interested in an out-of-the-box solution for PVR/DVD -> VCD, etc. Check out Sony's Vaio PCV-W102 (I think it's only available in Japan, though)

As a programmer, I like to tweak with my boxes, but this is so cool by default, I don't even want to mess with it! 1.6GHz Celeron (Could be worse!), 256MB Ram (512MB would be much better, but what the hell!), DVD/CDRW, Tuner (coax-in only, unfortunately), all-in-one integrated AV remote (however, can't use remote as a mouse, that's too bad...), memory card slot, 2 PCMCIA slots, 3 USB, 2 Firewire, Widescreen flat 15.5" display (it looks sweet!), etc. It's has Windows XP installed, but it has lots of cool-ass software for ripping music and video, so I'll leave it be.

Anyway, Cygwin now has support for rootless mode under X, so I'm running all my favorite apps (esp. Konsole!) seamlessly.

It's not a set top box, but it did completely replace my TV/DVD/VCR setup, and I'm stoked about it!

It cost me around 170000JPY at the Sony store.

Re:Sony's Vaio Solution [Slightly OT]

[chabotc]

Since all the web pages i could find on this product were in langues i could not quite understand, i figured ppl would apreciate a picture link:

http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/news/2002/10/10/24.jpg

Looks like one sweet toy though i gota say

Re:Sony's Vaio Solution [Slightly OT]

[zwoelfk]

I think that's an IR reciever on the left side of that picture. That's integrated into the current models (under the display) - so you only have to deal with three plugs out of the box - USB mouse, main power, and Ethernet (it has a modem too, though)

Dynamism sells these things to foriegn customers and has an english description - I don't know anything about that company though.

Also, on Sony's page here they have a little widget which'll give you a 360 degree view around it (click the action button when you see it). (note: I have no problem with this page on Mozilla 1.2.1 under linux.)

Looks like it would be difficult to use...

[pokka]

It uses windows-like controls (dialog boxes, drop-down combos, OK buttons, etc). Looks like it would be very difficult to navigate/operate with a remote control. I'd say it has a long way to go before the UI will feel as intuitive as something like a TiVo or replayTV, instead of feeling like a All-in-wonder card hooked into your TV. On the other hand, the hardware is far superior to current DVRs. At least the UI can be easily improved through patches.

With 250MHz PPC's?

[ryochiji]

I wouldn't exactly call a PVR with a 250MHz PowerPC exactly a "bad boy". Okay, so it's a PowerPC which means it runs on less power and releases less heat, yada yada yada. But still.

On an unrelated note, I wonder if PPC Linux distros would run on these things out of the box...

Re:With 250MHz PPC's?

[PeePeeSee]

Yes - they run on these things out of the box - Now you can commence to buying 100 of them and starting your fangled whiz bang e-commerce/distributed computing/colocation company. Lemme know if you need investors!!

Re:I wish I could find some .... USE MythTV!!

[catch23]

There was a slashdot article sometime back that mentioned MythTV. Last weekend, I loaded up the debian packages (although I had to manually install xmltv since the deb packages were old) and all I can say is wow! It's been running stable for the last 4 days and I've already recorded more than 20 programs. It does that Tivo-ish time-shifting stuff which I find really cool, but somewhat useless for my purposes since I use MythTV mostly for recording stuff. Plus, it's got a pretty nice web interface so I can still start the recording even when i'm away from the computer.... (just by accessing the mythweb frontend through apache/php)

So far it allows you to use two codecs (nuppelvideo and mpeg4) but for some reason I get a bit better performance with the nuppelvideo stuff so I stuck with that. But I think the really big selling point of MythTV isn't the ability to record, do timeshifting, or access via the web... it's about it's really, really nice graphical interface. You just really have to see for yourself to believe it. I feel like a born-again couch potato!

MythTV debian packages are here.

But you can't hack the Tivo Series2

[xerofud]

Is it still true that no one has managed to "log into" their Series 2 Tivo and bring up a bash prompt? When I bought one a few months ago and learned that all the nice hacks were restricted to Series 1 Tivo's, I prompted returned my Tivo 2 for a full refund.

Now I'm using a homebrew box (which by the way cost the same as Tivo Series 2 + lifetime subscription) and am running MythTV.

And I could not be happier.

Things I wouldn't know how to do with a Series 2:

1) Customize the UI and navigate it with a wireless keyboard instead of a remote.

2) Burn content to DVD.

3) Integrate my MP3 collection and digital photos.

4) Update programming guide if Tivo went bankrupt and my "lifetime" subscription expired worthless.

5) Export recorded content to other machines sittings on my LAN.

6) Customize the commercial-skipping function.

7) Upgrade/replace a component (e.g. hard drive)

Re:I wish I could find some good Linux PVR softwar

[catch23]

perhaps something is wrong with your mythtv setup? mythtv runs nice and smooth on mine! When I added an additional 512MB, it runs great! Although my setup might be a bit more complex (using TwinView xinerama) but it still runs perfectly fine on a normal monitor without TV-out. (besides, I just use the xinerama clone function anyway)

Not *quite* the ultimate system

[Analysis Paralysis]

This box, while looking pretty flexible in most areas, does not have a positioner so cannot control a motorised dish directly. There is also no mention of DiSEqC 1.2 (explained here along with lots of other things) compatibility which would be an alternative to a positioner (the specs only mention LNB switching which is DiSEqC 1.0). The specs *do* mention an I2C connection for an external control and there is Linux support for it in the kernel apparently.

Oh, and the twin SCART sockets may be ideal for European users, but there is no mention of composite or S-VHS socketry for the US - so Americans will have to get a SCART-to-S-VHS cable to use this box.

Re:Not *quite* the ultimate system

[Analysis Paralysis]

Warning! The link in the above comment is just an attempt to get Mr Anonymous Coward lots of ad banner clicks for a free shell or root account!

Re:Not *quite* the ultimate system

[Analysis Paralysis]

That is good news. However DiSEqC 1.2 does have its disadvantages compared to a built-in positioner - due to limitations on the current that can be sent through the cable to the LNB (500mA if I recall), it is limited to dishes of 1m diameter or less and takes longer to move the dish. It is OK for some, but for a "dream system" I would go for a full positioner.

Satellite == DVB == European Only

[-tji]

This seems like a cool box for the Europeans among us. But, for the Americans, it's not very useful. DVB is a European satellite standard. The American satellite services, DirecTV and Dish Network are completely proprietary.

Re:Satellite == DVB == European Only

[new500]

. . .

Not entirely true, I think. this press release gives the following quotage :

"The effect of this announcement on the implementation of MHP is enormous (for MHP) as EchoStar is the largest DVB-S provider in the US with over 5 million customers and a footprint to cover all US households."

I've come across occasional mentions of DVB standard free - to - air broadcasts accessible in the USA - someone else will have to find and post these - but I guess you could anyway just buy a _much_ bigger dish and point it at the horizon :->

Re:Satellite == DVB == European Only

[zztzed]

Dish isn't completely proprietary -- they use the DVB standard with Nagravision encryption. See my earlier post -- the one wrinkle is that Dish marries smartcards to specific receivers' serial numbers. Since this box doesn't actually have a serial number (or at least, not one issued by Dish Network for their own hardware), you can't legitimately subscribe it to Dish Network programming. You might be able to use it with a hacked card, though... but it wouldn't necessarily work very well (or indeed at all), since this thing is probably not equipped to talk to Dish's equipment (LNBs, multi-sat switches, etc).

It's the software

[Anonymous Coward]

PVR hardware is all nifty and fun, but it's the TV scheduling/programming feed that makes these things useful. That's what Tivo and ReplayTV charge their monthly fees for.

Now, if you had a hackable PVR *and* you had a reliable source of free and accurate electronic TV listings, then you would have something.

Until then I don't see what the fuss is about this box. Without the ability to easily program to record all episodes of you've got doorstop with a PowerPC chip in it.

Re:It's the software

[Rolo Tomasi]

The EPG (Electronic Program Guide) info is embedded in the DVB stream. In Europe at least.

Re:It's the software

[radish]

True, but it doesn't usually include the required information to enable features like season passes and suggestions. It's that which takes Tivo above "dumb recorder" and into the truly useful category, and it's that which I'm more than happy to pay for.

Re:It's the software

[Greedo]

XMLTV

Re:I wish I could find some good Linux PVR softwar

[Rolo Tomasi]

Dunno which part of the world you live in, but if you're in an area where DVB is used, check out VDR, it's da bomb.

Cool network audio player?

[frozenray]

I held off the purchase of a network audio player because the devices on the market didn't fit the bill (for example, neither the Audiotron nor the SliMP3 can handle Ogg Vorbis natively, AFAIK).

This could be the box I was looking for: Ethernet, backlit LCD, IR remote, enough oomph for decoding audio streams, and Linux. And PVR functions thrown in to boot.

The history of this piece.

[noeffred]

The "dreambox" is nothing more than a polished version of the d-box, a machine build from Nokia, Sagem and Philips for the European, especially german speaking market. A Company called Kirch Media sold these boxes in order to give access to "Premiere", a digital, excrypted set of some 30 or so channels some of which are pay-per-view. Kirch is now bankrupt, since pretty much everybody and their friends watched/watches this "Premiere" for free since the Irdeto encryption wasn't really hard to break.
The d-box was build around a 66Mhz PPC with 32MB of RAM and 8MB of Flash. It features prtty much everything the dreambox has to offer minus the IDE channel. For this machine, an open source firmware was written by some enthusiasts since the original firmware was Java based and took up to 30 sec. to switch channels - not real acceptable is it. Streaming and therefore the PVR function can be achieved via the 10Mbit LAN connection on the machine itself and some nice software tricks.
You can get further infos (mostly in german) using google searching for "linux@dbox2"

UK DTTV PVR from Pace "before Christmas"

[Inflatable Hippo]

...or so I read somewhere, they'd better hurry up if they want to get it into Santa's sleigh...

So all you ex UK OnDigital subscribers who are going to be forced to return or pay for your set top box, there is hope of a getter gizmo.

This is a new suscription free PVR for the UK market that receives all the free to air DTTV channels.

Not much in the way of details or prices yet...

Isn't this the Dreamcast?

[randomErr]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the company that bought the rights to build PVR out of the Sega Dreamcast chipsets?

I remember seeing some prototypes last spring.

Re:missing from the feature list

[MeerCat]

how big is the hard drive?

Looking at a dealer's page it seems it comes without a harddisk but with connectors so you can put any size disk you want in it - seems a smart way for retailers to avoid being left with a load of old small disks....

Microsoft lost case?

[axxackall]

How about a machine with a 250Mhz IBM PowerPC, 2 SmartCard readers, one CompactFlash slot, UDMA66 IDE, MPEG2 support with MPEG4 (DivX) support on the way, Ethernet, LCD display, SPDIF out, yada yada yada (zipped User's Manual). Oh, and it is built specifically to run Linux. Available right now.

Long time ago Microsoft abandoned non-x86 platforms. Now we'll see how they would like one more market sector with computers which cannot run Windows.

---

Home without Windows - the prison cage? No! It's a world without walls!

Re:It looks like Windows aint outta the picture ye

[sfe_software]

Do my eyes decieve me?

Read the text -- the Windows software shown is for updating the flash via a Windows box. It specifically mentions connecting a serial port, etc...

your sig (offtopic but indulge me)

[websensei]

"Choosing software based on politics is like choosing a hammer for its smell."

This may be true but if one hammer smells like roses and the other one smells strongly of piss, smell becomes a valid criteria.

I don't care if it runs Linux.

[fmaxwell]

I don't want a PVR that runs Linux. I want a PVR that works well. I don't give a rat's ass what OS it runs. In fact, I don't want to see the OS. I just want a powerful, user-friendly interface and software that does not require that I do anything to make it work other than select the programs I want to record.

Oh, wait... That's why I bought a TiVo. {Yes, it runs Linux under the hood, but, thankfully, that's well-hidden.}

I will never understand the Linux users that need daily affirmations of their operating system choice. Article after article on Slashdot is published about handhelds, PVRs, etc. that run Linux. It's like the Special Olympics of operating systems; everyone involved gets a ribbon.

cheaper than when you were a kid...

[MrChuck]

When you were a kid, that Apple ][ with acoustic modem cost around $1700. And then you had to buy a cassette player to load the programs from.

And you WISHED you could afford the upgrade from 8KB to 32.

Or for $1700 you could get a really GOOD used card (to drive uphill in the snow in your escher-town).

So quite complaining and be glad there is an alternative to the x86 monopoly.

Now where the hell is my HighDef recording?

Re:You are comparing embedded to desktop processor

[uradu]

> While work per cycles is important, work per Watt
> is even more important in embedded systems.

Not really, unless you're talking battery operated, or are dealing with extreme heat generation. Judging by many embedded systems nowadays (e.g. set-top boxes from cable providers), heat generation IS an issue, but you didn't specifically address that.

Besides, I was being very generous comparing the 250 MHz PPC to the 1 GHz Duron, because they're certainly not in the same performance class. Don't forget that the Duron itself has a work-per-cycle advantage over Intel, so it's no slouch either. Plus, while I don't know too much about the PPC, it's still an old school RISC design if I'm not wrong, meaning that it has fewer complex instructions and might require more of them than an x86 to accomplish some things (fp math/fancy addressing).

> The cost of this product comes in the engineering work that
> went into designing a custom PCB and layout for this product.

That's right, and that's why it might not make much sense for most of the applications people are salivating over here. The cheap (but potentially hotter, though still fanless) Via Epia boards are perfect for these geek-type "embedded" applications, such as MP3 and MP4/DivX players (though the jury is still out on whether the C3 processor has quite enough juice for the latter). The extra heat and power won't matter much, but the very substantial cost savings will.

Re:I wish I could find some good Linux PVR softwar

[anonymous loser]

Tivo has pretty good Linux-based PVR software. It seems the /. crowd has somehow forgotten that Tivo is linux-based, or else we wouldn't be seeing stories like this. Basically the German company developed a product like DirecTivo. How original and innovative.

Re:I wish I could find some .... USE MythTV!!

[pz]

MythTV is a nice project which is nearing some significant milestones in terms of usability. Isaac Richards, the fellow behind the effort, is good at both architecting and writing software, and is very quick at fixing problems that people (enthusiasts, mainly) find.

The biggest problem is that the architecture is based around software codecs which requires reasonably hefty CPUs. Hefty CPUs (eg, Athlon 1800) need hefty fans and big boxes. Hefty fans make a lot of noise, and big boxes are, to my eye, far too large for audio/video equipment, and often (but not always) plain ugly.

Isaac has made it clear that he intends at some point to support hardware codecs, but the timeline for that is unclear, as it requires support in a number of other areas (eg, xvideo).

My assessment of the current state of MythTV is that it looks great, has a nice interface, does most of the things you would want a PVR to do (and the list of unsupported options is getting shorter and shorter by the day), but as no hard-and-fast guidelines about supported hardware have been established, getting it to work on your particular box can be a hassle (but, might not be, if you get lucky with choosing the right hardware; unfortunately, there isn't a good published list of the right hardware). Unfortunately, MythTV requires a large handful of other packages, and getting exactly the right versions of each can be frustrating at times. While the project has considerable promise, and I have every expectation that it will eventually be excellent, it isn't quite ready for prime time.

Re:MOD PARENT UP!!!!!!

[MikeBabcock]

Its news because unlike Microsoft, Linux vendors and users don't have billions of dollars in marketing money to claim things that aren't even true (Windows being reliable).

If we point out to the world that these things are doable (and done well) on Linux, more companies consider using Linux for their products instead of Windows and we don't have to suffer with poor quality MS crap.

Re:I wish I could find some good Linux PVR softwar

[norton_I]

I love my TiVo, but I understand why some people would want a more "open" system, either to be able to customize it, add features, be faster, etc.

Also, there is the threat of TiVo's insolvency. If they go belly up and the TiVo service stops working, I will be left with a glorified VCR.

Until my TiVo or their business fails, I am not going to look for a replacement, but if would be cool if there were software I could use on an old computer I already have if it comes to that.