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NWN Linux Client Delayed
An anonymous reader writes "Posted tonight on the Neverwinter Nights Linux client page: '[Dec 13 2002] There have been many questions as to why the Linux client is taking so long. The two big issues are sound and movies due to the fact that BINK and Miles are only available for Windows and Mac. BINK is the in-game movie player and Miles is the sound engine for Neverwinter Nights. We are having to find our own solution for Linux sound in Neverwinter Nights, and we are exploring possible movie options. Due to these factors, we are revising the estimated release date from Fall 2002 to Winter 2002 (Dec 22 2002 to March 21 2003), with January 2003 being the earliest date it could be out. Progress has been made on sound this week, and to re-iterate, the graphical side of the Linux client is looking excellent and is almost complete.'"
Gar, this is so frustrating! Been waiting for so long for the client. This was an opportunity that the Linux community had to be in at the start to help with the flow of mods.
Still, I must really thank bioware. The fact that BINK and Miles only run on windows will do a great service to Linux. This will draw attention to the fact that some companies (such as Bioware) are remaining committed to bringing the game to Linux. As a consequence, it will draw attention to all those people who think it is acceptable to produce products that run on windows only, or windows and linux. And yes, I am also thinking of all those web designers who think Internet Explorer is the only web browser being used, and everyone should just download it - after all its free.
So even though the difficulty of bringing out the client may be a downside, I think that Bioware's persistance could serve to aid us, along with putting to shame solutions like BINK and Miles.
I have friends waiting for me to get the Linux client. We could play before that, but once I have the client I am much more likely to get involved. Then we can get a campaign started. Until that time, even my windows friends who purchased the game are not doing much more in the meantime.
It's starting to sound the project wasn't intended to be multiplatform from the getgo. Wouldn't they have chosen other means of playing video and sound or written their own right away?
// ville
I think Bioware's biggest mistake in Linux port is being so hush-hush about what is happening with the port. It was always "It will be out real soon!" or "Just a few bugs stand in our way" or my personal favorite, "We dont have time to give updates"
At this stage I don't greatly care whether the movies work or not, and I don't care how bad the sound is. I want the game which I paid for working on my machine. I don't care if it's called a beta. But I want it now. Yes, I'd like it if there was a patch release available by March which had as good sound as the Windows version, but I think waiting the Linux client till March is a long time to ask loyal supporters to wait.
It has to be remembered that this isn't the first time they've put it off...
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Yo, so this is how I see it.
Anyone know what this Bink format is? Miles audio system I'm not to worreid about; they could have sound fixed, albeit not very positional, today, if they wanted to. As for Bink - you've got the problem of having these bigass movie files on the CD i assume. That leaves them 4 options:
1) delay the release
2) find an OpenSource or simple way to convert them to mpg, play them. Unlikely.
3) port the player. painful.
4) find an OpenSource player that's stable, common, and supports Bink. Unlikely. I doubt mplayer supports Bink, but even if it did, it's not necessarily stable, uniform, or common enough. Though a binary COULD be built and called by the game to play the movies. If it supported Bink, which I doubt.
5) offer it as download. Bandwidth costs money.
6) have a cheap hack to disable videos - definitely not cool.
that all these devs should stop porting to linux! for God's sake, we need more development originating on UNIX/X platforms. and we need a direct x or equiv., not to mention a new window system, X(Free) is really bad, and only appears good because of the endless layers of gtk and whatnot to make it look nice, but looks are nothing without responsiveness. take the win2k gui up against kde. kde often looks much cooler, more control, nicer everything, but thats fine if all you do is look at screenshots. start using the interface and you'll realise we need to learn something about resposiveness. x is overdeveloped. we need a nice, light windows sys,. and folks, it cant be impossible! look at OS X! apple dont have secret powers! if hackers can built an OS as good at Linux, we can damn well "hack up" something a little more useable. personally i think the kde team want to adopt csomething new... ....ok im ready, mod me OT....
I can understand a granularity of 3 months before you start a project.
But they are already 6 months past their first promised release!
It defies belief that the best estimate they can still make has an error factor of 3 months.
I was one of the idiots that bought it shortly after release because of the claimed linux support soon, and since the linux server really was out soon they had us all fooled that the linux client really would be soon too.
It wasn't until a couple months after the windows release that they even deigned to tell us 'Fall 2002'.
OK, guys, maybe this is somewhere we can do something practical to help.
I am a good general purpose geek, and I expect a lot of the rest of us here are. I've never actually written a CODEC, and while i've reverese engineered file formats before I've never tackled a compressed video stream. However, it can't be impossible.
How many people would be up for setting up a sourceforge project for either an open source BINK player or an open source BINK2mpeg converter (actually both would use most of the same components). This way we could make an actual positive contribution to getting games onto Linux. We probably would not be finished quick enough to make a real difference for NWN - three months is damn tight for such a project - but it might help BioWare and other companies with future cross-platform games.
We've also all got sample BINK files to analyse, and a google search for 'bink file format' found me a useful text from someone (Mike Melanson) who has already started to analyse the format.
So, come on, who's in?
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
I hate to burst your bubble but the Linux community and specificaly the Linux gamer community is not some huge force that programs live or die by. The reason NWN sold a lot of copies is because it is a good game, from the company that made Baldur's Gate(2) and it is something people want. The promise of a Linux client has next to nothing to do with it.
I am not speaking on their keeping with promises, as I really couldn't care less (I play my games in Windows) but please, let's not try and rpetend like the Linux gaming community is some huge force.
Damn, this is really a big disappointment. I mean, Bioware basically had us believe that the Linux client would ship with the Win release. Now they have revised their plans continuously. I am starting to have second thoughts about my investment in NWN, which I bought because Bioware let us believe that we could play it under Linux a couple of months after the retail PC/Win release. Now I have a three useless NWN CDs that are only collecting dust.
This had to all be a ploy on BioWare's part.
If they really meant for NWN to run on platforms other than MS, they would have used OpenGL, SDL, and maybe a little OpenAL for sound(for 3D sound, that is).
There's not much reason to use DirectX anymore, when there are free/crossplatform libraries available.
It's very simple to use SDL for all of your input and networking, and delegate your Hardware Accelerated 3D to OpenGL, and your 3D sound to openAL.
Besides, shouldn't all of these things have been abstracted enough that these modules could just be plugged in under the covers? A little bit of extra time in the design phase goes a very long ways in making your program more flexible and preventing problems.
I'm outraged with Bioware. When NWN was first announced to be in development YEARS ago, they were saying it would support Win/Mac/Linux OUT OF THE BOX! They continued to say that right up until the time they shipped Windows only boxes. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and picked up the box figuring there was just some issue with distribution, I'll be able to download the linux binaries in a few days. No such luck. They have led us on for what, 6 months now? This is clearly a case of false advertising to increase sales, and I for one would jump on a class action lawsuit.
`fortune -o`
I believe they intend for the linux client to be released to function with the existing game whereas Loki released full ports. I don't want to have to go buy a Linux port.
Personally, I don't care if movies work on my hardware as I skip through them anyway because they chug. Apparantly sound is coming along...if they released a port with working sound and no movies, I'm game.
I send you this message in order to have your advice.
[Dec 14 2002] FANTASTIC NEWS!
We have just been informed by Rad Game Tools (http://www.radgametools.com) that they have Linux versions of both Bink and Miles. We will be getting our hands on these tools on Monday and we should have further information for you then.
This solves the two outstanding issues with the Linux Client, and I bet we will have even more good news for you in the coming week in terms of future Betas or Demos of the Linux Client. We here at BioWare are thrilled with this development.
We would like to apologise for the confusion arising from the Dec 13th update where it seem like we were blaming Rad for the delay. This is entirely untrue. We were stating that, to the best of our knowledge, we would have to find our own solutions for movie and sound playing in the Linux Client. This is no longer the case and we look forward to using the Linux Rad Game Tools just like we are in the Windows and upcoming Mac version.
Rejoice!
PS. Starcraft uses RAD Game tools.