Slashdot Mirror
Rats, Robots, And Rescue Follow Up
Dr. Robin Murphy writes "An editorial comparing the proposed roborats with the rescue robots actually used at the WTC response by the Center for Robot-Assisted Search and Rescue appeared last month in
IEEE Intelligent Systems Magazine. A slightly longer version is at
Crasar.org. Note that the rescue robots was in Discover Magazine's Top 100 stories of 2002."
This is so exciting I just shat my pants.
FP?
HTH.
for the article
and
for the main page
try to go easy on poor old google.
Seems to me that the "law enforcement" community
would embrace this new tool as a way to check up on citizens. These machines have huge potential in domestic military and political survelliance applications. I'm sure Mr. Poindexter is just drooling all over himself at the possibilities.
Damn, your system is slow this morning...
Stupid Humans.....
CANADIANS TO LEAD WEAPONS INSPECTION TEAM INTO USANovember 21, 2002
.
(Toronto) - A coalition of Canadian peace groups today
announced their intention to send an international team of
volunteer weapons inspectors into the United States later
this winter. The coalition, Rooting Out Evil, are recruiting
inspectors through their newly launched website,
Routing Out Evil
"Our action has been inspired by none other than George W.
Bush," said Christy Ferguson, a spokesperson for the group.
"The Bush administration has repeatedly declared that the
most dangerous rogue nations are those that:
1) have massive stockpiles of chemical, biological, andnuclear weapons;
2) ignore due process at the United Nations;
3) refuse to sign and honour international treaties; and
4) have come to power through illegitimate means.
"On the basis of President Bush's guidelines, it is clear
that the current U.S. administration poses a great threat to
global security," said Ferguson. "We're following Bush's
lead and demanding that the U.S. grant our inspectors
immediate and unfettered access to any site in the country -
including all presidential compounds - so that we can
identify the weapons of mass destruction in this rogue
state," added David Langille.
Visitors to Rooting Out Evil's website are invited to sign
on as honorary members of the weapons inspection team.
Honorary inspectors can participate in the action, or they
can simply lend the support of their name as they would on a
petition. The actual inspection team that crosses the
border will be comprised of prominent individuals from
Canada and other countries.
The Rooting Out Evil coalition includes Greenpeace Canada,
the Centre for Social Justice, and the Toronto Committee
Against War and Sanctions on Iraq, and is supported by
American groups such as the National Network to End the War
Against Iraq, Global Exchange and the US section of the
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom. They
oppose the development, storage, and use of weapons of mass
destruction by any state.--For information: David Langille or Christy Ferguson
info@rootingoutevil.orgDavid Langille, Director of Public Affairs
CENTRE FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE489 College Street, Suite 303Toronto, OntarioM6G 1A5
Tel: 416-927-0777 x225Fax: 416-927-7771Toll free: 1-888-803-8881
Email: langille@socialjustice.orgWebsite: http://www.socialjustice.org
Not interested in a war against Iraq?
Become a Weapons Inspector
Cheers,
Woot
Rats!
Yay! Now we can play Lemmings for real!
Fabulous. There's an old saying referring to flowers, something about them being weeds until someone's found a use for them.
I'm not saying rats or weeds are useless, of course... but I can already hear the massive campaign platforms and court cases.
----- Wtcher Dragon, UDIC
OpenDK is a great tool, awsome interface and can even be used in commandline mode to takedown those conflicting signals.
thank you
here in houston, spider-man fell off a tall building. no one is sure if it was a dummy or suicide attempt.
but not to worry...I know it wasn't the real spider-man...because we are Venom!!!
Sounds like another plot by standonguard.org (or is that .com?) for kanaduhian domination of the world.
...it's the robots who get rescued (after they break down).
Why are humans so God-awful lazy?
... years ... working on highly-customized and amazingly intelligent (in an A.I. sense) software that runs on multiple platforms and computer architectures. And it's not just me with these skills, it's many of you folks, my fellow Slashdotters, who command an amazingly broad skillset of computer abilities.
..., many lightyears away to distance planets. They can then remotely control them and obtain rock samples, pH test data, and brightness/contrast/luminosity metrics. They can use them to search as well, locating various pools of high-resource lime and calcium areas. Why can't we do this in this instance? A $20 Lego robot kit could almost get the job done if you just throw in a camera that can sense photons. But no, let's just electrocute rats' brains with RF signals because it's "cool".
You know what? I've spent years
I woke up this morning, had some coffee, and browsed through my favorite URLs. After reading Matt Drudge's editorials, I came to Slashdot only to find out that lazy human scientists have decided to enslave an entire species of animal (the common sewer rat) in order to allow for robotic rats that they can manipulate for senseless "exploration" purposes.
NASA can build robots and send them many, many, many,
The worst part is that these scientists, who I really doubt have any religious beliefs whatsoever (if they did, they wouldn't be supporting animal cruelty/slavery), have decided to use rats as search mechanisms. It's not fair, it's not right, and I urge you all to write to these research labs and state your disgust at their antics.
I believe the Lego robots are $200, not $20...
Independent musicians and registration-free net radio at EmergentSound
The thought of robotically controlled rats scares me somewhat...
Although, this has been happening for a long time...
That's basically what congress is, right, a bunch of rats controlled remotely by lobbyists, right? Of course that group of remotely controlled rats scares me too. I'm just gonna go hide in a cave with some real rats... I feel much safer there.
OK, roborats may have disadvantages, but is it just me, or this guy sounds amazingly derisive of the technology? Sounds to me like a cat defending his turf. I'm all for alternatives.
Plus, he never makes an attempt to see the other side. Rats have advantages too; off the top of my head, (obviously) price. No matter how fine a rat it is, one rat will always cost on millionth (or less) of the cost of a robot. Also, they don't need to be rats; you could derive the technology to use, say, hummingbirds. I don't see a robot duplicating a hummingbird's flight capability and size, not to mention maneuverability. And, as I say, that's off the top of my head.
I have a great respect for scientists, but it's really sad to see them involved in turf wars instead of seeking to increase cooperation. They're only humans, I guess. That's something robots would probably be better at.
So if I get trapped underground, I won't know if the horde of rats that just found me are there to gnaw me to death, or are advance scouts for a rescue team? Or both?
Karma: Excellent^(-t/Tau), Tau=Wittiness/Trollishness
"The critters just aren't as lively as they used to be," said a resident of the 34th street station who declined to give his name. It's about time they found some replacements.
A spokesman for the MTA said that if the robotic rats were proven successful in the testing stages, other metropolitan areas would make the switch in the year to come.
"We really expect these robotic rats to perform." he said. "They don't produce as much waste, and can draw power directly from the third rail."
When asked about the comparatively high price of the robotic rats as compared to the freely available conventional ones, the official claimed that while the organic rats were free to aquire, the Total Cost of Onership was much higher, given the cleanup and maintenance costs.
"You know, these robotic rats, they will never unionize, and we will not have any unrest among their ranks. Overall, we think this switch will reduce our rat-related expenditures by up to 40% over the next few years."
Ñ'
We just need to make cyborg snakes and cyborg nazis, and then all of Indiana Jones' worst fears will be made real. I don't know whether or not Indiana Jones will have to be made into a cyborg too though.
Karma: Excellent^(-t/Tau), Tau=Wittiness/Trollishness
Just because animals can't speak up (with language, that is, I'm sure the rats made their displease known in many other universal ways that were ignored) this doesn't mean that we're free to mutilate them as we see fit. I applaud the fact that we're using technology to aid in disaster situations, but I just find it really twisted that we're forcing all these animals to suffer for it. Say what you will about rats being cheap, they're still living, intelligent beings that don't deserve to be fitted with skull caps and have their brains shocked. If you don't see any problem with the rats, how far away are we from doing this with cute, cuddly puppies or kittens?
And imagine what combining THIS technology to others will results in... like the work being done on presthetic eyes. Instead of having a huge battery pack and camera and other electrical equipent strapped to a rodent's back, in the near future, this will all be miniaturized (of course) and the camera can actually BE the rodent's eyes, so all that may need to be external would be a powersource.
A seemingly regular-looking rodent (of any other animal for that matter!) may in-fact be a secret agent!
Ain't technology cool?!
Karma: NaN
http://www.crasarhq.org
http://www.inuktun.com
Human Rescue : Have you located the victim ?
Rat Rescue : munch munch, eh no, munch, not yet.
Human Rescue : Whats that gnawing sound ?
Rat Rescue : Gnawing sound ? What gnawing sound ? I dont hear anything.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Slave comes from the european word for the Slavs, who of course were enslaved by other groups. The Slavs enslaved other people too. And their word for slaves? Robot.
We should replace the scientists by robots instead! Or by rats?
(And I have a feeling that's how they handled this in Soviet Russia...)
kner kner kenr kner kner kner kner kner chekc it this is the new language and everyone has to start speaking this type of tounge becuase it is the nerdiest language that was ever invented by monkeys in guadalajara so get up and start speaking knnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnner(slur the knnnnn) and (attack with the er) and be sure to lunge forward at your opponent as this will sure scare them in their boots and they will not know how to respond -nerd out
loser...
YOU FAIL IT!
Just because you disagree with a poster's comment doesnt mean you moderate it down. seems Insightful, or if not that, at least Interesting.
Scientist 1:
Ok see we get these rats but they are not just any old rats.
They are robo-controlled rats, see.
We use them in rescue missions and other noble pursuits.
Scientist 2:
Do you think they will figure we just glued lego blocks to the heads of trained rats?
Scientist 1:
Nah, they are too dumb to check.
Yeah, something like that..
ACK
From the article:
search-and-rescue robots did perform tasks at the WTC disaster site and were successful by any reasonable performance metric
Number of lives saved?
Ummm... I think getting a person to the level where they can perform this sort of task requires much more time and resources than it takes to provide a rat with a fish tank, roller cage and feed. Comparitively speaking, of course.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Rats are probably the most ideal animals for rescuing people from collapsed buildings -- they find you through the smallest cracks and the bonus is that you can eat them while waiting for the rescue crew dig you up.
Only thing you'd need to check is whether the victims are allergic. While I kind of like waking up in middle of night because a rat is sitting on my head (has happened more than once), I and quite many other people would choke to death quite quickly if forced to live with a fat furry rat in a small cavity for a prolonged time.
Cherish your rat.
As opposed to baiting and exterminating rats. And, we pen cattle and chickens for food. They have no freedom and are procreated strickly for our enjoyment. We care not how they suffer.
Give me a break! Stop being so self-righteous. Are zookeepers evil? Are petting zoos evil?
Click here or here.
Is anyone else reminded of the Rat Things from Stephenson's Snow Crash?
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
One evening, while the clients were dinning, I was summonsed to the lunchroom to remove a big fat sewer rat who was peacefully sitting next to the pool table.
Why me? Guess it was because I was the engineer with all the tools.
Not knowing quite how to handle the situation, I opted for cryogenic death, and froze the sucker with a C02 fire extinguisher.
I have few regrets about this action. Reducing the Arlington VA rat infestation by one seems to have little consequence on the world or my sole. It was an ugly creature leading an unnatural existence in the shadows of our own existence. So sad for it that we should have crossed paths in this way. Oh the adrenalin.
Lest the frozen critter thaw out only to reinvade our premises, his chilly corporal essence was quickly scooped up and rushed to the outside dumpster where he became part of several cubic feet of landfill tightly packed together under several thousand pounds of hydraulic compaction.
Well...
Scott Evil wanted to start an petting zoo...
I'm reading Introduction to AI Robotics right now.
Seems good so far, although too many copy editing errors to make me really comfortable with it.
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
If you start with a dog you have a security robot like the "Rat" Thing from Snow Crash.
Wasn't the spider in Fahrenheit bio-organic too?
This is how Lemmings would look if they were for real (from an article on Politiken.dk about Gamestars, where people dressed up as their favourite gamestars)
Lemming1
Lemming2
Lemming3
Masculine Lara Croft is also a killer!
It's all in danish for your reading pleasure!
I suppose that even with implants, cats are untrainable. Now dogs on the other hand ...
--
But then again I thought VCR+ was a stupid idea and would die a quick death--so what do I know?
Using remote controlled rats reminds me of those controversial military dolphin programmes that both the Soviets, and the Americans seemed to carry out.
:)
;)
Even though I'm not exactly an animal rights activist this still all sounds a bit... unnecessary. Especially when there are alternatives.
I worked briefly in a SAR robot project, while I was at Edinburgh University. Myself and two other MSc students got together and built 2 SAR robots, to participate in the SAR event at Robocup 2001, Seattle. Even though our project wasn't really ready in time (read, the heat-seeking robots rather chase the CNN cameraman than find victims, and didn't report at all to the base station) I did learn a lot from just being there.
For example, I learnt how difficult it is to remote control a robot using only its on-board cameras/sensors. One of Murphy's Urbies was due for repair when its human-operator managed to drive it down a flight of stairs, and I quote Murphy, "without ever touching the stairs".
And this difficulty is ever so larger when the robots go inside rubble, with lack of light, and the well known radio control problems/outages.
Human control also limits the number of robots you can deploy, assuming you need 1 operator per robot.
Autonomous robot swarms are only possible if the robots are small and cheap, so you can deploy dozens or hundreds and accept a number of 'losses'. But this approach has its own disadvantages, such as small size meaning less sensorial capabilities for example. What good are dozens of little crawlers that just step on top of the victim's heads without ever detecting them?
In the event debriefing meeting, where sponsored teams had to make a small presentation, this Few_Big_Expensive vs many_small_cheap issue was debated. I believe there must be a compromise, and whoever finds the right balance will be half-way there.
As far as rats... I'd rather hear about research into fluorescent heat-seeking 'intelligent' jelly, that is poured on top of the rubble, seeks victims, attaches itself around their body keeping them worm (but intelligent enough to stay away from eyes, hears, nose, and mouth) and nutritionally rich so the victim can eat it if required...
What's that, Eeky?
Jimmy fell down the well? Lead the way! Go on, boy. No! Not the cheese! SNAP! Oh, the humanity!
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
Frankly, it terrifies and amazes me how much we'll fiddle with nature(tm). I don't like rats, but I also am strongly opposed to opening their skulls and forcing them to do things against their will via 9v battery. I am strong believer in Karma, and I for one don't want to have some "superior" life-form crack open my skull and use me for a chess piece simply because he communicates more effeciently than I do...
In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really
good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change
their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really
do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are
human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot
recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion.
-- Carl Sagan, 1987 CSICOP keynote address
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