SPEWS is lame. They do not even follow their own policies (specifically, that they will remove listings after spammers are terminated. 6+ months now, still listed. And they say you can't contact them (and posting to NANAE is _not_ an option).
SPEWS has made themselves completely irrelevant in my eyes.
Re:Worldcom = Spamhaus
by
__aanonl8035
·
· Score: 2
Just want to pipe in and say you are right on the money. We acquired our IP block from a telecom only to find that the IP range was listed in SPEWS. We have had the IP range for 3 years now, and it is still listed in SPEWS.
It is unfortunate though, that many administrators just sign up their mail servers to all the blacklists they can find without considering the quality of the lists and how they are maintained.
SPEWS is lame. They do not even follow their own policies (specifically, that they will remove listings after spammers are terminated. 6+ months now, still listed. And they say you can't contact them...
Why should SPEWS remove a listing immediately upon removal of the spammers? The "policy" you seem to be thinking of is:
...if spam or spam involvement (hosting spammers, selling spamware) from your IP address/range ceases, it will drop out of the list in time.
"In time" does not mean immediately. How many months did you harbor spammers? More to the point, what's the relevant IP address or range? Without specifics, your complaint rings hollow.
(and posting to NANAE is _not_ an option)
Of course. The NANAE regulars have seen every flavor of spammer lying and evasion. You're looking for a naive audience that might give you some sympathy.
SPEWS has made themselves completely irrelevant in my eyes.
SPEWS wasn't made to please spam hosters. It was made to keep your spammy network away from my inbox.
Again, if you think you have a legitimate complaint, post the IP range in question.
"in time" should not mean >6 months. we were in the list for maybe 1 month before booting them. the spammer is *long gone*. IN FACT, the spammer moved before we kicked him off our network, and SPEWS recognizes this, and yet still lists us.
the reason i won't post to NANAE or here w/ the IP range is because it's pointless. SPEWS shows very clearly just how silly the anti-spam movement has become. dealing with anti-spammers is like talking to a brick wall.
I've seen plenty of claims like yours posted on NANAE. Most of the time the claimant is wrong - there is still an ongoing spam problem from the listed IPs. So without knowing more about your particular situation, the balance of probability is that you are incorrect, and there is good reason to list your IPs. Often enough, however, the claimant is right and SPEWS neglected to unlist them. In those cases, SPEWS reacts quickly, usually moving to a level 2 listing.
Here's my point: I've yet to see a single case where the IP was listed in error and SPEWS didn't immediately fix the problem.
Also, the attitude of anti-spammers on NANAE doesn't really matter. No matter how much venom they hurl at you, if they can't produce objective reasons to keep you listed SPEWS will delist. My observation is that SPEWS is not looking for a "vote" from the community - they are looking only for evidence of spam support. I've seen IP's delisted while the NANAE regulars are still out for blood.
Yes, and the poster you replied to was absolutely correct though. No email MTA keeps the email in the queue for a 5xx error as this is a hard bounce (retrying after a 5xx error would be a violation of the relevant RFCs). Only a soft bounce error (4xx) will keep the message in the queue. So the statement in the original message about using up disk space is totally invalid.
Quite frankly, Julian Haight comports himself like a True Asshole. Admittedly, Theo can be rather terse himself, but he generally doesn't cause innocent third parties distress while attempting to achieve his goals.
Re:Spews = /m\
by
PacketMaster
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
And spews doesn't? Spews randomly blocked a consulting company's netblock I worked for part-time simply because that our block was next to a "known spammer's" block. When they politely asked to be removed and pointed out that according to their own evidence file that their netblock had nothing to with spam, they were met with very hostile responses and told to essentially ditch their teleco provider because they'd never unlist anyone. They admitted that they simply block IPs in a form of "collateral damage" because they feel like it to hurt legitimate businesses so they flee their network provider. Look at antispews.org for more info on their flagrant abuses and why you shouldn't use spews.
... generally doesn't cause innocent third parties distress while attempting to achieve his goals.
Using spews is going to cause third-party distress.
as it says, "you should have hit the preview button". posts are in stone:)
as for emailing for responses...check your message preferences.
Re:Spews = /m\
by
Just+Some+Guy
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Your company was paying that ISP. Thus it was also supporting spam.
I understand the principle involved, and admit a fair bit of sympathy for that point of view. However, for some of us, switching ISPs isn't a luxury we have. I live in a small Midwest town. My options are:
DSL/wireless via the local dominant ISP
DSL via MSN
Cable modem
Dialup via one of those "unlimited access for only $6.95!!!!" companies
Out of that list, the first option is the only one viable for hosting servers, since the rest either block service ports, have onerous TOS contracts, or just aren't serious connections.
Say that I discover that the local ISP (which has probably a 98% market share here) has some customers with open relays. What do I do? Buy a T1 and contract with Qwest, or get out of online business altogether?
In practicality, I don't have the option to switch, regardless of my ISPs policies.
Fortunately, the provider is run by a great set of people, and employees several real system administrators, so I don't really have to worry about this hypothetical problem. That's a Good Thing, because I'm pretty well stuck where I am.
-- Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:Spews = /m\
by
Senior+Frac
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
And spews doesn't? Spews randomly blocked a consulting company's netblock I worked for part-time simply because that our block was next to a "known spammer's" block.
I just went to SPEWS' website. It appears that this falls within their listing criteria. I'll take it you don't agree with their listing criteria.
When they politely asked to be removed and pointed out that according to their own evidence file that their netblock had nothing to with spam, they were met with very hostile responses and told to essentially ditch their teleco provider because they'd never unlist anyone.
They talked to SPEWS? It says here SPEWS doesn't talk to anyone. Are you sure? That statement appears highly misleading. Are you certain they didn't talk to news.admin.net-abuse.email?
They admitted that they simply block IPs in a form of "collateral damage" because they feel like it to hurt legitimate businesses so they flee their network provider.
Boy, this is so misleading as to be approaching a lie. They really, really talked to SPEWS, huh? And "spews said"...?
Look at antispews.org [antispews.org] for more info on their flagrant abuses and why you shouldn't use spews.
The fact that you disagree with their listing criteria is all fine and good; that is your right. But there seem to be lots of outright wrong information on that webpage.
My server, SPEWS recommends, my decision whether to trust them, and my decision as to their effectiveness.
Why even bother with Spews? Why not Spamcop, who doesn't block half the planet?
SpamCop's blacklist announces hosts with a bad no-spam/spam ratio. As a result, non-US freemail providers tend to end up in SpamCop's blacklist.
SpamCop is honest and they warn that the blacklist should only be used for tagging, but many people ignore this advice.
Re:Spews = /m\
by
Dimensio
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Antispews is run by a known hack. SPEWS is used because it works. It is NOT the job of my ISP to tell your ISP to kick off their spammers. If your upstream is providing an open haven for criminals, don't be surprised when no one wants traffic from your upstream.
Remember, your consulting company wasn't being blocked. Your consulting company didn't own the ISPs. SPEWS wasn't blocking anything (anyone who claims that SPEWS blocks is either ignorant or lying), SPEWS was merely listing IP addresses owned by the upstream provider. It isn't SPEWS's probem that your upstream is rogue and that no one wants their traffic.
My recommendation: Call Qwest and keep bitching up a storm. They'll get sick of you eventually and they'll HAVE to act just to shut you up.
Of course, given that Qwest openly tolerates criminal activity, including DDoS attacks, from their customers, I suspect that their action might just be telling you that they don't want you as a customer since you aren't actually breaking the law.
You're an idiot, or a troll. I've used Spamcop as my primary IMAP mailstore for almost 2 years. I have only -once- had a single message blocked from a recipient. That is a single message out of over 4,000 messages.
Spamcop does an excellent job at blocking unwanted advertisements and I will renew my subscription once it expires. No other ISP does as good of a job as they do. Not bad for 40 smackers.
So it's OK to handle my web, NNTP, and FTP services on a broadband connection, but I should route my outgoing mailing list traffic over a dialup modem? That's just not an acceptable setup, in my opinion.
-- Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:difference
by
Amarok.Org
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Can anyone explain why you wouldn't just use SpamAssassin?
Why drive a Ford when you've already got a Chevy available? It's a matter of choice, preference, features, etc.
-- --
"Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
This is just a lightweight SMTP server which takes over anyone who is SPEWS listed and rejects them. A decent server like Postfix + amavisd & SpamAssassin will already do this with little overhead.
Re:difference
by
bconway
·
· Score: 5, Informative
SpamAssassin is nothing more than an advanced filter. This stops the spam before it gets to you and fills up the offending mail servers disk space with it.
Platform [In]dependence
by
GeckoFood
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
The author states that it's for OpenBSD. Any clue if he plans to port it to other flavors of Unix, such as Solaris, HP-UX, Linux, IRIX, etc? This sounds like a useful honeypot tool, I would be curious to see how well it works in actual production (translation -- I'd like some stats).
-- Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
Re:Platform [In]dependence
by
evilviper
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Are you not familiar with the concept of open source? Instead of saying "Gimme Gimme Gimme" you could do it yourself, or even contract someone to do it. If you aren't going to contribute, don't start complaining that others should be contributing more.
Re:Platform [In]dependence
by
Noryungi
·
· Score: 2
Porting to other flavours of UNIX should not be too hard: this scheme is based on pf, which is the packet filter for OpenBSD. Port pf to your flavour of UNIX, and the rest should be trivial.
-- The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Re:Platform [In]dependence
by
evilviper
·
· Score: 2
Umm, perhaps you are thinking of Free Softwaretm? That would be rms' special brand of open source.
Open Source has almost no ideals behind it... Just that you are giving others more freedom to do what they please with your software. It's such a broad term that there is nothing more that can be said about it.
Some open source developers may have their own agenda, as may some license, but that's besides the point.
So what is it exactly that you are so upset about?
Good concept - quality of execution pending
by
Cujo
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
The theory here is that most spam still comes in via open relays, and
the only way we are going to convince them to clean up their act is to
waste _their_ disk space, their time, and their network bandwidth more
than they waste ours.
To me, this seems exactly the right strategy, although how well it works in practice will be interesting to watch.
--
Helium balloons want to be free.
Re:Good concept - quality of execution pending
by
tmark
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
the only way we are going to convince them to clean up their act is to waste _their_ disk space, their time, and their network bandwidth more than they waste ours.
To me, this seems exactly the right strategy, although how well it works in practice will be interesting to watch.
To me, this is about as hypocritical a strategy I can imagine. If something is wrong, it's wrong.
Re:Good concept - quality of execution pending
by
Dunark
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I don't see the hypocrisy. If a neighbor of mine allows people to cross his property so they can dump garbage on my property, where do I get the obligation to accept the garbage? What's wrong with me putting up a fence and letting the garbage pile up on his side?
If someone wishes to run an open relay and be a conduit for spam, why should he be granted immunity from consequences?
Re:Good concept - quality of execution pending
by
Just+Some+Guy
·
· Score: 2
Stop these people and the flood of spam will recede.
So will the demand for Jerry Springer and reality shows. In other words, it ain't gonna happen.
-- Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Err, SpamAssassin isn't exactly what I'd call "low overhead". While it's pretty good at what it does, it still has potential to slow my 32MB mail server to a crawl unless I tell spamd to process only one message at a time.
Horses for courses. RBL checking costs a DNS lookup and little more - so why have a separate daemon do it?
SpamAssassin has to parse the whole message body, so you've already accepted it. I didn't mean to make it look like it was super low overhead with SpamAssassin, I meant that it's low overhead without it, and that with SpamAssassin you can do a lot more.
I oughtta Preview before Send more often. I type too fast and it gets confused
Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Sturm
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Spews is EVIL. Plain and simple. They block IPs based soley on the fact your upstream provider hosts or has hosted in the past, someone the SPEWS "admins" (and I use that term losely) believe to be spammers. It is impossible to get off their list and if you are a customer of C&W you probably have IP space being blacklisted by them. Blocking large blocks of class Cs, just because someone happens to share IP space with an alleged spammer is the WRONG way to filter spam. Please take a look at http://www.antispews.org for more information before using SPEWS.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Tucan
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
The theory behind SPEWS approach is at least interesting, but why don't the maintainers validate it? The SPEWS maintainers have the data available from their spam traps. If SPEWS is wonderful (with whatever number of asterixes) then the presence of a particular IP address in the database should have a high positive-predictive value. IOW, for any given IP in the database, what is the probability that it truly represents a source or supporter of spam over time? How about data instead of zeal?
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
jamie
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
"Spews is EVIL... Please take a look at http://www.antispews.org"
Thanks for the link. I'll confirm that Spews is not the way to go. Well, it depends on whether your goal is to block spam for your users, or just to piss people off.
If you're a network admin and you want to block spam for your users, try something else.
If you just want to piss people off, Spews is great. My personal mail server (very kindly hosted for me for free on a friend's network) was put on Spews' blacklist. My server has never in its lifetime sent a single spam, of course. But Spews had found four (count 'em) examples of spammer websites (not spam-sending machines) on the IP blocks owned by the people who my friend bought access from, twice removed. Because of these four claimed spam websites, Spews put FOUR CLASS A's on their list.
That's right -- a quarter-million IP numbers were blocked because they didn't like the policies at four IP numbers.
Wait, did I say four? When I checked up on them, two had already moved to other providers, one I couldn't find, and only one was still there. So my server, and a quarter-million others, were being blocked because the Spews people disagreed with one solitary website. Hosted by a company that I have no relationship with.
It goes without saying that attempts to get my server whitelisted failed.
And I do question the value of their blocking my mail server. Like I said, I was being hosted for free just because I have helpful friends... my moving to another network actually saved them money!
Somehow, I think most net administrators, if they knew that Spews' purpose was political and not technological, would be less likely to use it. There are plenty of other blacklists out there. What are the good ones that don't hijack your networks to apply political pressure?
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
t1m0r4n
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
Spews is EVIL. Plain and simple. They block IPs based soley on the fact your upstream provider hosts or has hosted in the past
I think too many hosting companies are far too lenient when it comes to booting spammers -- if they do anything at all. Honestly, I think going overboard on blocking will be a great asset in getting these clowns off their behinds.
It is impossible to get off their list
That is lame, if they have cleaned up their act. I'd say make it easy to be taken off once. After that, forget about it. Having little anti-spam programs running on every PC is just silly. Unless serious action is going to be taken, it's just wasted effort.
P.S. Ever notice spew is oops backwards:)
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
PacketMaster
·
· Score: 3, Redundant
Spews randomly blocked a consulting company's netblock I worked for part-time simply because that our block was next to a "known spammer's" block. When they politely asked to be removed and pointed out that according to their own evidence file that their netblock had nothing to with spam, they were met with very hostile responses and told to essentially ditch their teleco provider because they'd never unlist anyone. They admitted that they simply block IPs in a form of "collateral damage" because they feel like it to hurt legitimate businesses so they flee their network provider. Someone mentions C&W addresses, same thing if you're getting service from Qwest. Their website makes them come off as the noble crusaders against spam, but in reality what they do is just mean-spirited, unethical and just plain wrong.
See the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.email to see just how the spews people treat those who politely ask for erroneous entried to be removed and PROVE they have nothing to do with spammers.
--
Some people take their.sig way too seriously
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
MrDingusMcGee
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
They block IPs based soley on the fact your upstream provider hosts or has hosted in the past, someone the SPEWS "admins" (and I use that term losely) believe to be spammers.
As a sysadmin for an ISP I can assure you that this is absolutely the case. There is no human contact at Spews, the entire system is automated. Which means that when their system is alerted to a "spammer" within a particular class C, that entire class C is quickly blocked by thousands of misinformed SAs who don't understand that they are in the process going to block legitimate emails that the people within their network have every right to receive.
Blocking large blocks of class Cs, just because someone happens to share IP space with an alleged spammer is the WRONG way to filter spam.
A hosting provider should be responsible for the domains they host. But there is rarely anything a provider can do to pre-emptively stop a spammer. Just recently, my company signed up a new company for Co-Location. Within a week, this company sent out a huge spam mailing. The moment we saw spam complaints come in we called the company and demanded proof that their mailing list consisted solely of opt-in addresses. They had no proof and their contract was immediately terminated for violating our Acceptable Use Policy. However, at this point our entire class C (housing our main mail server for hundreds of websites and ten times that many individual email clients) was listed in SPEWS database. Apparently this company had, in the past, under a different name, been blacklisted as a spammer. We were now added to the list of their hosting providers and could not, despite our best effort, contact a single human at SPEWS to explain our situation. As a result, for over 3 weeks, thousands of mail servers were rejecting our clients' mail as coming from a spam-server.
I ask you, how does that make the internet a better place?
Spam is a waste of bandwidth, of time, and it's insanely annoying, as a sysadmin I realize that as much as anybody (except maybe Alan Ralsky). But SPEWS is a horrible "solution" to the problem. Too many misinformed sysadmins use SPEWS at the expense of those who use their network.
-- My Sig is Sauer.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Quixadhal
·
· Score: 2
I couldn't agree more.
The company I work for was affected by the infinite wisdom of Spews. Apparently a spammer once sent email from an address that happens to share the same leading 16-bits of address space with us. Because of their escalation procedures, a full 8192 sites have been placed on their "spam" list because of a single incident.
I don't think Spews provides any useful service. They don't resolve problems, they encourage you to bury your head in the sand and pretend problems don't exist. Blocking (and thus ignoring) a whole set of unrelated domains because once upon a time, a single spam event happened in a vaguely similar namespace is like banning everyone in the state of California from visiting Las Vegas, because one guy from LA was caught cheating in a casino 10 years ago.
They are a lawsuit waiting to happen. What if a company sends out stock information, or other time-dependant data by email, and they happen to get added to the Spews blacklist? Now clients who are paying $XXX for these notices don't get them, and thus lose a great deal of money. The sender isn't at fault, as they sent the mail in good faith, and they didn't engage in spamming themselves, but had the misfortune of belonging the same class A or B subnet of a spammer. Who's gonna compensate the victims here? IANAL, but I'd be looking at Spews with $$'s in my eyes.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
dnoyeb
·
· Score: 2
Smacks of 'IP profiling' if there were such a thing...
The conviction of innocence is completely unacceptable in America.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
spacefight
·
· Score: 2
See the newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.email [google.com] to see just how the spews people treat those who politely ask for erroneous entried to be removed and PROVE they have nothing to do with spammers.
You didn't get it, did you? There are no SPEWS people posting in nanae. SPEWS does not talk to anyone. You do not prove that you do not have something with spammers, you disconnect them and you get unlisted if they are gone. Gone means, no WWW, no eMail, no DNS. Nothing. Go read the FAQ as it looks to me that you didn't. Your listing was for shure NOT randomly as you stated yourself that you where in the neighbourhood of some spammers. Get a clue.
We use SPEWS. It reduces spam to 5% of before. It rocks.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Erik+Fish
·
· Score: 2
You were almost looking credible there until you linked to AntiSpews. You do know that it's run by a well known spammer don't you? The.org is also rather deceptive as they have started to sell mail server hosting.
If your ISP is listed in SPEWS you need to talk to them about it. They need be informed that either the spammers go or you go. Obviously some ISPs value spammers' business more than that of their legitimate customers. Why would you want to do business with a company with ethics like that anyway?
However I guess I can count on Slashdot to throw their fists in the air when reading about Alan Ralsky then turn around and pay their bandwidth bills to ISPs with the same attitudes as his just because it's "convenient".
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
spacefight
·
· Score: 2
I ask you, how does that make the internet a better place?
It stoppes beeing flooed by fscking spammers like you signed up with one. Good that you disconnected them. The term for SPEWS is: education. If only more ISPs would act as you did, the internet would be a better place for sure. The problem is, that as long no one gets hurt (read: loses money because customer quit their services), loads of ISPs does not enforce their AUP, has bad AUPs or are pro-spamming. Only if they really get a clue what's going on, they act. Read: Education. Prevention.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
MrDingusMcGee
·
· Score: 2, Funny
Read: Education. Prevention.
Sysadmins need to educate themselves about SPEWS before hastily hopping on board the "I'm preventing spam!" bandwagon. SPEWS doesnt prevent spam, it prevents spam AND legitimate emails.
Often it boils down to "The All ighty ollar". An irresponsible ISP is willing to let a spammer continue to pay for their outrageous use of bandwidth as long as they can. SPEWS does nothing more than allow the spammer to spread the wealth to other ISPs once their current one is blacklisted. And yes, this ISP should be punished, its sysadmins and CEO should be dragged out into the street and beaten. However, until SPEWS starts carrying out vigilante justice, SPEWS is doing more harm than it does good, and is not a viable spam solution.
Police Chief: My Mayor, as you asked we have devised a scheme to catch every criminal in the city before they can comitt a crime.
Mayor: That's amazing! Let's get started
Police Chief: There is a catch. It only catches criminals registered in our "Ex-Con Database" and 10% of the people imprisoned will be random towns-people who have done no wrong.
Mayor: But, it catches criminals right?
Police Chief: Well, yes, but...
Mayor: Then let's do it!
Welcome to Spewsville...Where the world is a better place..for some people.
-- My Sig is Sauer.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
spacefight
·
· Score: 2
If the sysadmins, the CEO et all know about SPEWS and know how SPEWS works, they'll do what they can to not getting listed (nuke spammers with zero tolerance for example). But if the CEO is letting the spammer sign up and more important: let them stay up; someone needs to PREVENT the users from the next bunch of spammers which will sign up with this pro spam|scum ISP- and most important - and will get an IP (or even a block of IPs) from the blackhat ISP, then the goal of SPEWS has been reached: Prevention. I won't get any mails from additional spammers on their network because SPEWS prevented me to receive them.
And if every customer who has a clue about spam and spam support moves to a white hat ISP (yes, the're plenty of them around), the ISP has to close the sooner the better.
Remember: SPEWS lists pro spam ISPs only. And only whole blocks in order that the PREVENTION comes into effect. Sorry for my poor english - it's not my native language as one can guess.
BTW your comparison to the police is really lame. The police is acting on public ground. The servers where my email passing trough is just not public and I (well in my case my sysadmin) can decide who to put in "jail" or not. And yes, I know that SPEWS blocks legit emails but I do not care about it - I do not want to receive emails from spam supporting folks.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Senior+Frac
·
· Score: 2
Let's see...
SPEWS
Anonymous - no contact info provided
Voluntary - no one is forced to use it
AntiSPEWS
Anonymous - cellphone and a P.O. Box
Voluntary - not forced to support them
Solicits money... anonymously
Whom do you trust to be more impartial?
Come on folks, it's no contest.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Dimensio
·
· Score: 2
SPEWS does not block anything. SPEWS LISTS IPs owned by known spam-friendly companies such as Cable and Wireless. Individual ISPs CHOOSE to block because they have decided that if a company like C&W, which openly tolerates abusive criminal activities from their customers, isn't going to clean up their act then there isn't any traffic worth accepting from them.
If everyone starts using SPEWS and you get blocked because no one wants C&W's traffic, that is NOT their problem and it is not the problem of SPEWS. Call C&W, tell them to stop openly tolerating criminal activity (such as theft of service, trespass to chattel and distributing pornographic material to minors), and then if they clean up their act, SPEWS will delist them.
The alternative is to have hundreds, if not thousands, of individual ISPs run their own private lists. That way, when C&W does finally clean up their act, they have to convince hundreds or thousands of individual people to remove them from the filters -- of course, by this time many of the admins who put the IP there might have moved on or forgotten the reason for the block in the first place. As such, C&W would stay in those hundreds or thousands of those individual blocklists and their netspace would be effectively worthless. Such was the fate of AGIS, who died the death of a thousand cuts, walled off from much of the Internet even when they did finally clean up their act.
And SPEWS does not just block blindly. You're either lying or stupid when you claim that it's just based on who they 'believe' to be spammers. SPEWS keeps documentation for their list entries, and it takes multiple spams and multiple ignored reports to the ISP before the list becomes expanded to include collateral damage.
The only people who complain about SPEWS are spammers and people who are too pig-headed to be bothered to learn how and why it is used.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Dimensio
·
· Score: 2
Did you ever ask in news.admin.net-abuse.email why you're still listed? People there are often very good at digging up the information, and it usually turns out that there are still spammers lingering on the network that your ISP has ignored.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
AndroidCat
·
· Score: 2
...because they'd never unlist anyone
SPEWS didn't tell you that. Probably it was someone on news.admin.net-abuse.email, which is as about as authoritative as a random reply on Slashdot.
And further more, it isn't true. SPEWS has frequently reacted to spammer-removal within hours (or less).
-- One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Erik+Fish
·
· Score: 2
A GOOD mail filtering solution doesn't rely on content. Not only is this a slippery slope that can lead to some very nasty places, it also won't be long before the spammers find out how to bypass the filters. Then it's hack and counter-hack until you're rejecting even more legitimate e-mail than you would be if you simply blocked IPs.
Besides, you're only hiding the problem -- not solving it. See the link in my (one and only) journal entry.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Electrum
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
Spews put FOUR CLASS A's on their list. That's right -- a quarter-million IP numbers were blocked because they didn't like the policies at four IP numbers.
Perhaps you meant class B's? Four class A's would have been 67 million. I doubt even SPEWS is that stupid. Wait, this is SPEWS we're talking about.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
Atzanteol
·
· Score: 2
We use SPEWS. It reduces spam to 5% of before. It rocks.
If you turn off your mail server you can reduce spam to 0%! But how much *real* mail has been filtered? I think that is the reason many people are annoyed with SPEWS and the like. False positives IMHO are *much* worse than letting a bit more spam through...
-- "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"
- Charles Darwin
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
spacefight
·
· Score: 2
I care very much. I want to receive legit email. Nobody - not you, not SPEWS, not my ISP, not anyone's ISP - has the right to prevent me from receiving mail I want that is intended for me.
SPEWS is optional. 'nuff said. We decided to use it. Plain and simple. What are you whining about? Set up your own mailserver if you wanna have all the crapload comming straight from roadrunner accounts but for 'sake, don't whine about spam.
Re:Spews is NOT the right way to filter e-mail.
by
ninewands
·
· Score: 2
big difference: not just rejecting mail
by
agshekeloh
·
· Score: 5, Informative
It doesn't reject messages. It defers them forever, telling the open relay to "try again later."
This tool is a weapon against open relays. The goal is to fill up the open relay's hard drives by deferring the incoming mail, rather than just rejecting the messages.
Yes, you can do this with other blacklists as well, but nobody seems to be actually doing that.
Re:big difference: not just rejecting mail
by
dskoll
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
My product CanIt can tempfail mail also. However, it can be dangerous, because you tend to get a big increase in SMTP connection attempts. If you can tempfail early (as Theo's scheme does), it's not so bad.
Our stats, however, show that most spam does not come from open relays any more. With the advent of cheap broadband, I'd say a lot of spam comes directly from DSL or cable-modem machines. Some comes from Web servers with broken formail scripts, and some from legitimate non-open relays that are abused by subscribers. Only the minority comes from open relays nowadays.
Spam is annoying, but it isn't that big of a problem that we need Slashdot posts every day about it..
Annoying to the end-user, yes. To an ISP or firm with a large mail server it is more than that. Spam fills disks, uses bandwidth, wastes employees' time, etc etc. This is a super idea.
-- Trolling is a art,
SPEWS is necessary & effective at hurting spam
by
Charles+Dodgeson
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Time and again we see case after case of some provider that
Let some customers spam
ignored abuse complaints
did nothing while when that particular spammer's IP was listed.
Only took action against a spammer when
the SPEWS listing expanded to include non-spamming customers
Whinged that SPEWS was unfair and not the right
way to do things
Every day SPEWS proves itself necessary and effective at getting otherwise unwilling providers to remove their spammers. Note that SPEWS uses an escalation process. The provider has to ignore complaints for a while to have the IP range expanded to include non-spammers
If you can suggest something that is half as effective at raising the cost for spammers as SPEWS, please suggest it. SPEWS forces providers to decide whether they want to host exclusively spammers or host exclusively non-spammers.
But if your goal is merely to filter spam (making life easier for the spammers) then you are right. SPEWS is not the way to do that.
-- Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Can anyone explain why you wouldn't just use SpamAssassin?
Once the spam is in your system then your bandwidth, disk space and other resources have already been consumed by the spammer. This prevents the spam from ever coming into your network and put the burden of the load back on the spammer's shoulders.
Damn fine work.
-- Trolling is a art,
I'm Disappointed
by
TerryAtWork
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
I remember when I applied for a Mead mailing list and got a nasty letter back saying 'your SPAM has been rejected!' just because I sent it from a Rogers.com address, so I know what it's like to be blacklisted like in SPEWS, and it sucks. That's not the way to do it.
Also, this new spam program retaliates and the law is very nasty about vigilantism and retaliation, perhaps because it threatens their monopoly. I don't want to see a spammer WIN in court, do you?
Also, program like popfile doe a great job of removing spam.
My advice is to forget kicking the spammers ass and just make their work vanish down a black hole like it will WHEN BAYESIAN TECHNIQUES ARE USED AT THE ISP END hint hint...
Yeah, but isn't it better when they KNOW their messages aren't making it to the recipient? If not by using a gray-area deception like 450 (which means "recipient unavailable", then by using the proper 550 Rejected.
Eventually, someone's going to notice all the 550s in the SMTP log and start worrying. Then maybe they'll try to find a better way to run a business.
Re:I'm Disappointed
by
Diabolical
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Also, this new spam program retaliates and the law is very nasty about vigilantism and retaliation,
The law has nothing to say over this. I'm at total liberty to block access to my site for whoever i want to block. If i block others in the process then that is their problem solely and not that of the lawmakers. Basicly you're stating that just because i have an email address i am not allowed to decide who may and who may not send me email.
The retaliation you're mentioning is just a message that is being sent back to the spammer who as a result has alot of errormessages in his mailbox, if they used a valid email address that is.
WHEN BAYESIAN TECHNIQUES ARE USED AT THE ISP END hint hint...
Bayesian techniques don't work at server level. Bayesian filtering is personal. Just because an email contains (for example) the words "horny slut" doesn't mean it's spam.
Why?
Let's say there are two people: person A and person B. Both have example.com -addresses. A uses his accont only for personal stuff, emailing friends and relatives etc. B uses his account for the same stuff, but additionally subscribes to mailing lists where people send erotic stories.
Now, A starts getting spam "Free herbal viagra", "horny sluts", "get a diploma", and reports these to example.com as being spam. Their bayesian filter learns that words like "horny" and "slut" are very 'spammy', so B's emails from the mailing lists start getting deleted as spam.
If you were B, and your non-spam emails that might look spammy to some, start to disappear, wouldn't you be pissed?
Bayesian filtering is (apparently) very effective in catching spam, but it only works on personal level.
Yes, you are free to block anyone you want at your own site. However, if you operate a service that maintains a list of "known spammers", and people incorrectly listed show you that they are incorrectly listed, and you still won't remove them,
you're setting yourself up for libel/slander charges: making statements that are false, with reckless disregard for the truth, that cause financial damage to others.
Now, I'm sure that services with very precise descriptions are safe: for example, a list of open relays with a procedure to get off the list after you show that you no longer have an open relay.
Yes, you are free to block anyone you want at your own site. However, if you operate a service that maintains a list of "known spammers", and people incorrectly listed show you that they are incorrectly listed, and you still won't remove them, you're setting yourself up for libel/slander charges:
However, if you claim that your list contains IP ranges of ISPs that have harbored spammers and that unlisting might not be immediate then that's definitely not libel.
Oh... Wait... that's what SPEWS does! See their webpage.
Let's all click our heels three times and wish that SPEWS' published criteria magically matches whatever we want. Then we can accuse them of libel/slander for not following our fantasy criteria.
So let's try it THIS way - suppose you're an ISP admin and all - or a large number - of your users all get the sort of same message at sort of the same time.
That's a lot of uncertainty, BUT if Bayesian software can flag that sort of thing, and I think it can, we can build a great tool here.
No. Only if the claim being made is a falsehood.
Causing actual harm to a company is not illegal.
Doing so by lying could be deemed illegal. Subject to a decision by court of law. Both libel and slander have the prerequisite of false claims.
If SPEWS says their list is of spam haboring ISPs, and then it is, then they're not lying.
Use a Teergrube
by
Brett+Glass
·
· Score: 4, Informative
What Theo should be doing, instead of sending a 5xx response (which, by the way, won't keep the message in the spammer's queue; a 5xx is a final rejection) is to redirect spammers' connections to a Teergrube (a spam "tarpit"). If enough people do this, the spammer will be slowed down greatly.
Re:Offending Mail servers ?
by
antibryce
·
· Score: 2, Informative
uh...I can't believe this is modded as "Interesting." The mail server sending the spam will get the 450 error and save the message to try again later, not the mail server of the domain faked in the headers.
jeez, learn the basics of how email works. If all I had to do to DoS your mail server was send it tons of messages and 450 errors don't you think this would be a HUGE problem?
Re:SPEWS is necessary & effective at hurting s
by
jamie
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
"If you can suggest something that is half as effective at raising the cost for spammers as SPEWS, please suggest it. SPEWS forces providers to decide whether they want to host exclusively spammers or host exclusively non-spammers."
First of all, I don't think most network administrators -- or their bosses -- know what they're getting into when they use Spews to police their network. If you are an admin who signs your company up for it, be prepared to have this conversation:
Boss: Hey, can you check to see if there's some kind of network trouble. I haven't gotten a reply email from a client in three days.
You:(after checking) Ah, that mail server is spam-friendly, we reject their mail.
Boss:(confused) They're not a spammer, they're our best client.
You: No, but they buy bandwidth from someone who buys bandwidth from someone who...
Boss: What?
You: We're using SPEWS, which is the most effective tool at stopping spam around the world! It forces providers to decide whether...
Boss: I don't give a damn, you work for me, not people around the world. Your job is to make the email work, not be a do-gooder. You may have cost this company a contract. Now get the damn mail working and tell me how many times you bounced my client's mail so I can decide whether you still have a job.
And -- you think Spews is effective? After being put on their list I had a grand total of one person unable to receive my mail. I have a dozen other people using my server to send and receive mail to hundreds of people, and according to my logs, among all of us, the sum total of people who couldn't get our email was two. That's the most pitiful boycott I've ever seen.
rblsmtpd + spamassassin
by
Gothmolly
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Works great for me, thank you DJB! Here's a summary of the spamhouses I've blocked (with a 553 error code) over the past few hours. These never even touch spamassassin.
-- I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Re:rblsmtpd + spamassassin
by
iggymanz
·
· Score: 2
For half of those addresses, why not just block EVERYTHING from the domains that are obvious bulk mailers, rather than just from a specific smtp relay node?
So based on what you posted, blocked anything from rapid-e.net, email-deliveries.net, etc.
you should be sending 553
by
Cheeze
·
· Score: 2, Informative
550 is a temporary denial. 553 is a permanent failure (rblsmtpd switch is "-b"). spammers usually just move on to another host if they keep getting 553's. 550s tell them to keep on trying, which is bad on the receiving mail server if you're getting a pretty heavy load.
on a side note, i would advise against using the spews.org list. it is almost impossible to get off of that list. they recently decided to put a few/23's and/22's of a network that i run, just because abuse@domain.com did not respond fast enough. The only way to get off of that list is to post to a newsgroup, and just hope they read your posting and take off the ban. That means it is a total manual process on their side to remove you.
in my eyes, using something like sbl.spamhaus.org or/and relays.ordb.org is a much better solution. If you are going to go the DNSBL route, and you should, i would advise you figure out how to run your own DNSBL so you can quickly add and remove hosts that are mailbombing your server.
-- Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
Re:you should be sending 553
by
warpSpeed
·
· Score: 2
Correct me if I'm wrong, I do not have the RFC handy, but isn't a 5xx error a perminant error, and a 4xx error a transient error? Both 550 and 553 shoud indicate a non-recoverable error and the email should be returned as such to the sender.
Also if you want to tie up resource on the sending server use 4xx errors. The email wil sit on the sending server taking up space, and processing time. Which may or may not give you some pleasure. This will cost you in some tiny amount of bandwidth.....
sounds like a smtp proxy
by
collin.m
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I use something very similar, MessageWall(.org). This is a smtp proxy with excellent filtering. So no need for something new.
Interesting, but here's an extra twist
by
wowbagger
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I won't go into the validitiy of using SPEWS as a blocklist - there are good arguments pro and con there.
But here's a twist to the basic idea:
Given the the email sender is in $BLOCKLIST, have the filter daemon give the 450 response
Re:SPEWS is necessary & effective at hurting s
by
binner1
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
At my last job, that is exactly the conversation I had. My boss said: We get too much spam here, do whatever it takes to stop it. I said: Sure, I'll have qmail do some rbl polling before accepting mail. Worked great for about a month...cut roughly 50% of the spam that network received. Then, boss says: Why can't I get email from ebay seller X? I say: Oh he's rbl'd...we don't take mail from there. He says: Ok, turn off the rbl.
After that, I turned on my own bayesian filtering and said F the rest of the network/users.
-Ben
Get rid of half your spam
by
Quill_28
·
· Score: 2
I don't see how it's wrong to send it back to the open relay. They are saying, "Here, have this," and you are just replying, "Not right now, thanks." That's perfectly valid use of SMTP codes. It's not like you launch an attack every time you get email from these relays, you're just telling them you don't want it right now. The idea is just to take the pain of SPAM away from the user and give it to the ones responsible (to some extent) for it. The open relays caused it, they should deal with it.
SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Between Theo's erroneous statements, implying that SPEWS is a list of
open relays, and some of the whiners in here bitching about "don't use
SPEWS because they're too aggressive," I thought it would be handy to
note a couple of things.
SPEWS is not a list of open mail relays. SPEWS (Spam Prevention
Early Warning System) is a list of "spam sources." Some of those spam
sources may be open relays. Some of 'em may be open proxies. Some of
'em may be spammers themselves (e.g.: Topica).
Regarding those that have found yourselves SPEWSed, yet are not, themselves,
spammers: I'm sorry you've found yourselves in that situation. But, you
see, kinder, gentler methods have been tried for years and have not solved
the problem. It only continued to grow worse. And whether you like it or
not: SPEWS works. I've never, in all the years I've been battling spam, ever seen ISPs boot spammers off their networks like I have since
their netblocks started getting SPEWSed. You blame SPEWS for your
problems but the truth of the matter is this: you've chosen to use an
irresponsible ISP for your connectivity. If your ISP had been responsive
to spam complaints, their netspace wouldn't have gotten SPEWSed.
Note: my personal net space was SPEWSed once. For a short while. But
my ISP is a good one. They addressed the problem promptly and got
their space delisted.
Re:SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Dunark
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Wrong. Spews maintains multiple listings for various kinds of spam sources and facilitators. See their webpage at http://www.spews.org for more information.
Re:SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Dunark
·
· Score: 2
Perhaps there is some confusion here. You can't use SPEWS directly; it is only available to the public via relays.osirusoft.com, and their servers return information that categorizes the kind of spam source or facilitator.
See http://relays.osirusoft.com/faq.html#_Toc533558164
Re:SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Frater+219
·
· Score: 2
Perhaps there is some confusion here. You can't use SPEWS directly; it is only available to the public via relays.osirusoft.com, and their servers return information that categorizes the kind of spam source or facilitator.
That's not quite true. SPEWS publishes a text-based list (warning: 800+ kB) which you can transform with a Perl script into whatever format your mail software needs. What Joe Jared at Osirusoft does is transform this into a DNSBL and make it available at spews.relays.osirusoft.com. This is why technical illiterates often accuse Joe of "being SPEWS" -- he republishes SPEWS' data in its most easily used form, though he doesn't have any editorial control over it.
Re:SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Dunark
·
· Score: 2
Legal action? On what basis? SPEWS publishes a list of what they *think* are spam sources. Nobody is obliged to take their word for it, and nobody is obliged to consider their list when deciding whether or not to accept email.
I think that any attempt at legal action against SPEWS would founder on the rocks of the first amendment. The first amendment right of free speech is possibly the one most consistently defended by the courts, particularly the supreme court. It's also a cornerstone of the spammers' defense of their own activities. It would be amusing to see the spammers trying to convince the Supremes that the first amendment protects them, but not SPEWS.
Re:SPEWS Is Not An Open Relays List
by
Dimensio
·
· Score: 2
You should address another, common, misconception.
SPEWS does not block mail. ISPs choose to block mail individually, on their own. Some ISPs choose to use one of SPEWS's lists (they keep two, one more 'aggressive' than the other) as a reference for blocking, but SPEWS itself does NOT prevent your mail from reaching its destination.
Anyone who claims otherwise is either ignorant or lying.
Whitelist blocking is the only thing that works
by
codepunk
·
· Score: 2
While some of the spam detecting algorithim's are cool and innovative they are still prone to circumvention. The best spam blocker I have ever seen used whitelist blocking. If I did not send you a message you cannot send me one unless you go to a web page and entered the reason that I should see your message.
This blocked 100% of the spam period...
--
Got Code?
No stooping involved
by
LinuxGeek
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
This is mainly intended to prevent open ( poorly configured) email servers from being used as relays by spammers. The open server's disk space being gobbled up by causing them to spool the relayed email will certainly get the admins attention. This will shift the problem away from servers that recieve the email and onto the open relay which lets the spammers spam us with no easy way to trace the mail. The problem with tracing the email is that the poorly configured relay server is maintained by someone that usually ignores the emails asking them to close their smtp setup or to please examine their logs and let us know who was using them as a relay.
I think your sympathy is misplaced due to a lack of understanding of what allows the spammers to keep sending us all of those wonderful offers. If they don't have access to open relays, then they either have to keep moving their spamming servers when accounts are terminated or buy bandwidth off the backbones directly from qwest, AT&T, worldcom, etc... Either way, the spammers costs go up.
Do you feel bad for the people you hear about in the news that get charged with maintaining a dwelling for criminal purposes when they leave an empty house to be over run with drug users? Same principle is involved here.
--
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
What tools in Linux would one need to do the following:
Setup a pop3 server / smtp server so that email can be sent and received.
Filter spam / easily add filters to this pop3 / smtp server on the same box.
Also be able to check OTHER accounts on OTHER pop3 servers, download them, and filter out the same spam / things marked as spam.
Noobie proof is a good thing too.
PS - If BSD does it better then linux, post those tools as well. Maybe make it a chalange to see which OS can do said request better. Could win32 win (heh) ?
They are not innocent. They are open relays, and deserve the punishment.
Re:SPEWS is necessary & effective at hurting s
by
Charles+Dodgeson
·
· Score: 2
First of all, I don't think most network administrators -- or their bosses -- know what they're getting into when they use Spews to police their network.
You are absolutely right. Although I advocate using things like SPEWS, you must make it clear that it will block mail from legitimate users. You either have to persuade people that this is right (as I believe) or not do it that way.
See this policy statement as an example of using such a policy, while making it clear that it will block mail from legitimate users.
-- Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
SPEWS shoots itself in the foot
by
Random+Walk
·
· Score: 2
Fighting spammers by causing as much collateral damage as possible (like SPEWS) does not work, and
it is simple to see why:
1. I am customer of a small ISP. I don't send spam,
and my ISP actively fights spam. Nevertheless, my
ISP is on SPEWS - bad luck, wrong netblock.
2. I have zero incentive to change my ISP, and thus my ISP has zero incentive to
put pressure on their upstream network operator.
3. Why ? Because I am blocked by bad luck,
nothing else. I could change the ISP, but any new ISP might have the same bad luck.
Changing providers will cost money, and will not
secure me from future problems of that sort.
In short: the overzealous blocking by SPEWS
removes any incentive to change ISP or exert any
pressure on upstream providers. If it's just bad
luck to be blocked, it may happen anywhere and anytime, and changing providers does not make any sense.
Re:SPEWS shoots itself in the foot
by
Charles+Dodgeson
·
· Score: 2
Because I am blocked by bad luck, nothing else. I could change the ISP, but any new ISP might have the same bad luck
That is simply false. It is true that any ISP can end up with spammer by bad luck. But the SPEWS listing spreads beyond the spammer only if the ISP does nothing about about the spammer.
So a non-spammer can only get caught by a listing if their provider fails to deal with abuse reports. Such an ISP has bad policy, not bad luck.
-- Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Re:SPEWS is necessary & effective at hurting s
by
Erik+Fish
·
· Score: 2
At my place of employment we have been filtering all incoming e-mail for ourselves and our small ISP through SPEWS and various other lists. Just now I checked and found that since 4:00am when the logs switched over we've blocked just over 2000 messages. About 1600 of them were because of SPEWS. This is a system with 6000 users and we've only had two or three complaints since we started filtering a few years ago.
That seems pretty effective to me.
Oh, and the boss loves it. As soon as we implemented the filters his spam load saw a *huge* decrease. He has even used the filters as a way to persuade a few of our more foolish clients to fix their open relays.
it looks like nobody understands the concept here
by
honold
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
the point is to punish open relays, not to block spam. the mail has to be retried for days, wasting network bandwidth and space.
if a signifigant number of people were to employ this, open relays would become crushed and filled with their own load.
Antispews is spam; SPEWS is good; others are too.
by
Frater+219
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Please take a look at http://www.antispews.org for more information before using SPEWS.
Actually, antispews.org is likely being operated by spammers, as the Osirusoft FAQ suggests. (If nothing else, they are spammers of USENET newsgroups, since they kiboze for references to "SPEWS" and troll in response, much as Serdar Argic once did with "Turkey".) Naturally, spammers are pissed off at SPEWS, because it is simply put the most effective tool presently in the field for denying spammers access to (1) victims, and (2) willing ISPs to host them. Innumerable spammers have been terminated as a result of SPEWS listings.
There is no conceivable informed controversy as to whether or not SPEWS is effective at getting spammers off the Net. Whether or not SPEWS is a good tool for your site to use as a tool for reducing your spam count is quite another question. In my personal experience (as a security and email administrator for my site, which is a research institution) SPEWS is extremely valuable. I read my mail logs and ascertain that SPEWS usage blocks spam, with a remarkably low incidence of false positives.
In the past week, our incoming mail server has blocked 969 messages on account of SPEWS, with zero reports of false positives from our users. (To be honest, we get about one such report a month, and we whitelist the offending IP address. It's usually in China; we have several Chinese researchers.) Our locally maintained blacklist blocks about twice as much spam, and our use of sbl.spamhaus.org blocks about five times as much -- but that is biased by the fact that we consult those lists before SPEWS, and there is a good deal of overlap between them.
I would not recommend that ISPs who offer email service to their users use SPEWS by default, though it would be a valuable optional service. The DNSBLs I would recommend everyone use are:
sbl.spamhaus.org, which lists only netblocks occupied by known repeat spam offenders
relays.ordb.org, which lists only open mail relays; and
proxies.relays.monkeys.com, which lists only open proxies.
These are all low-to-no-false-positives lists which I feel comfortable recommending to every ISP regardless of its stance on SPEWS.
Actually, it seems spammers use the same phrases in advertising the same stuff....just by filtering subject lines alone by regular expressions I'm rejecting about 5 spams a day per account, and the rest of the spams are rejected by bouncing e-mails based on source domain of bulk e-mailers (like host4bulk.com, e-mailpromo.net, etc.) I'm now getting 2 spams a week to the 6 accounts in my domain. I may next go to filtering the body of the mail, since there are expressions that keep popping up that none of my friends would ever use
Re:Just burn down the house..
by
LinuxGeek
·
· Score: 2
Yes, the person is at fault for not knowing what is going on with an open relay. That is the job of an admin of a system exposed to the internet. This method is only preventing them from handing the email to you. They already accepted the email, that dosen't obligate me to take it from them if I know it is spam, now does it?
They are the ones that are allowing their resources to be misused, I just wouldn't them to pass along the misuse. Are you just dense or are you a spammer trying to defend the undefendable position?
--
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Website is hosted by a a spamer Hurricane Electric
by
dananderson
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I think what Theo did was great and I can't wait until it gets out into the mainstream.
However, I find it funny (hypercritical) that the weblog is hosted by a ISP that tolerates spam, Hurricane Electric. Specifically:
Hurricane Electric's customers include major spammers, such as Bulk ISP Corp.
Hurricane Electric's customers often show up in my spam trap, usually harvesting email addresses.
Hurricane Electric's mail servers have open relays, which allows spammers to spam using their servers. Yes, I know it makes it easier for HE's customers to read email anywhere, but it allows spammers to flood others with spam also.
I'm sure others can add more, but I have other things to do . . .
Having 550 messages sent based on a bayesian filter such as bogofilter is the best/most adaptive way to handle the problem. Open relay lists have a greater statistical probability of blocking legit email. The challenge this represents is that, unlike with Spews, you have to have clients which convey back to the server which emails get marked as spam.
-- http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Re:SpamAssassin vs Theo's Package
by
AndroidCat
·
· Score: 2
Filtering out any email that has "This is not spam" would be a good start.:^)
-- One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Spews is worse than the spammers
by
jeske
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
Spammers are frustrating because they disturb you, there is no way to track them down, and you can't get them to stop.
Spews is exactly the same.
They disturb legitimate users: I run a business hosting an email customer support application (Neotonic.com). It is very important for us to get email support replies thorough to customers. Numerous times our IP addresses have ended up on the Spews blocklist because of some unsolicited mail sender in the same 256 address subnet. At most colocation facilities, ten or more companies share the same subnet, and it is not easy to change your IP addresses.
There is no way to track them down: Organizations like MAPS are judicious about how they block IP addresses. They do NOT block entire subnets unless there is cause, and they have an organized appeals process to take care of their oversights. Spews has no such facilities. In fact, the only centralized item in spews is the spews.org website.
You can't get them to stop: They block entire ISPs, and their FAQ says that I'm a victim of "rare inadvertant blocking". The trouble is, we followed their advice, we moved to a new colocation, with an entirely new bandwidth provider, and our new IPs are also spews blocked. There is no organization to appeal to, there is no way to get this fixed.
Legitimate users like us can't keep changing IP addresses because SPEWS is too aggressive and has no organized process. If you want to use a spam advisory system, use MAPS RBL.
Spews is worse than the spammers, because at least I can ignore the spammers.
Re:Spews is worse than the spammers
by
Tackhead
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
> Legitimate users like us can't keep changing IP addresses because SPEWS is too aggressive and has no organized process. If you want to use a spam advisory system, use MAPS RBL [mail-abuse.org]. > > Spews is worse than the spammers, because at least I can ignore the spammers.
If you want an effective spam advisory system that actually lists spamhausen, use SPEWS.
SPEWS is better than MAPS, because the spammers discovered they could ignore MAPS.
That won't work. A 550 error has to be given before the body of the email is sent. A filter can drop the email into/dev/null once the body has been received, but you've already accepted the email from the sender.
-- One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Qmail + rblsmtpd has this
by
Gothmolly
·
· Score: 2
-- I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Someone denser than a black hole
by
LinuxGeek
·
· Score: 2
This is about as illegal as you not answering your phone when it rings. More correctly, it is like you listen to the first 3 seconds and hear a recorded 'offer' and hang up without listening to the entire telemarketing speach. Get a freaking clue.
--
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
*sigh* You all need to read and THINK
by
nurb432
·
· Score: 2
IF you people would read closer, and THINK, much of the criminal activities i was talking about were an *analogy*.. I was trying to relate this to something that was concrete and not subject to interpretation ( i.e., the house burning ) as Spam is.
But that said, the last i heard, unauthorized use of computer resources IS a crime, here in the states at least.. And as far as I'm concerned what Theo is proposing constitutes unauthorized use of the so called 'offenders' systems, therefore criminal. ( this is NOT a slam on Theo btw, as i do have respect for the other things he has done )
But the main point i was trying to make was obviously lost many posts ago.. so i give up. Go ahead and justify your activities however you feel you need too.
-- ---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:*sigh* You all need to read and THINK
by
meringuoid
·
· Score: 2
But that said, the last i heard, unauthorized use of computer resources IS a crime, here in the states at least.. And as far as I'm concerned what Theo is proposing constitutes unauthorized use of the so called 'offenders' systems, therefore criminal. ( this is NOT a slam on Theo btw, as i do have respect for the other things he has done )
The unauthorised use of the system has already happened by the time this system comes into play - it was done by the spammer. An 'undeliverable' response is quite acceptable in an SMTP session, it's hardly unauthorised. If this means that the sending server keeps the spam on its own disk, too bad - but the spammer put it there, not me.
-- Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:*sigh* You all need to read and THINK
by
LinuxGeek
·
· Score: 2
The point you are missing is that by refusing to accept relayed email, I would in no way be making unauthorized use of the senders system. I would be doing nothing illegal, immoral, perverse, snotty or devious.
By leaving a mail system open for relaying, the admins are leaving themselves open to abuse by spammers. If that abuse is compounded by my choosing not to accept their extension of abuse, then they are the ones with the complete control over correcting the situation.
Actually I am fascinated at how your mind must work to twist a refusal to accept email into some illegal act on my part. I know that in the US that citizens have a right to freedom of speech; do you also consider yourself to be harmed if I don't want to listen?
--
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Re:*sigh* You all need to read and THINK
by
Helter
·
· Score: 2
The person rejecting the email isn't "using" the open relays' resources at all. Am I "using" the resources of UPS by rejecting a C.O.D. package that I never requested? How about by just not answering the door so they come back every day for three days?
Am I responsible for the open relays "customer" sending me email that I didn't want?
Further, if you understand SMTP error codes, this is sending the PROPER code. Most spam blockers accept the mail then delete it, or return a 550 error (mailbox does not exist), both of which are dishonest. This error code acknowledges that the mailbox exists, but rejects the email. What the server does with it after that is the server admins business.
In no way is the intended recipient using the servers resources though.
Re:*sigh* You all need to read and THINK
by
Helter
·
· Score: 2
I think that you are mistaking what happens here. When you bounce an email with a 550 code, the code goes to the server which attempted to send the email to you, the server then sends the "bounce message" to the address in the sender field.
No matter what, the error message goes to the server that is relaying the email though. There is no potential for abuse here. The only server that is affected at all is the server relaying the email.
What's more, when an email is bounced with a 450 it isn't a terminal error. The server could attempt to resend the message for a number of days afterwards, making it even less likely that a spoofed sender value will adversely affect the third party.
Re:Oh good, with Spews?
by
meringuoid
·
· Score: 2
I like how Spews just blocks based on Internet politics more than anything. You can get on Spews because the admins don't like you personally.
Please give an example of a SPEWS listing that was created because the admins didn't like someone personally.
Of course, there are plenty of people in news.admin.net-abuse.email who add to their private blocklists anyone who threatens to sue people over a SPEWS listing, but that's another matter entirely...
-- Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:SpamAssassin vs Theo's Package
by
crucini
·
· Score: 2
Check out this thread. Apparently realdpk harbored spammers for about a month, and then SPEWS took an additional 6 months to delist him. I'll refrain from repeating what I wrote in that thread.
Seems that one day I checked and our ORDB filter was letting more and more stuff through over time. Traced it down to the fact that ORDB only blocks open relays not open proxies.
Now I read about Theo's gloating over how his s/w is going to send 550's back. Well guess what? You can't 550 an open proxy.
SPEWS is lame. They do not even follow their own policies (specifically, that they will remove listings after spammers are terminated. 6+ months now, still listed. And they say you can't contact them (and posting to NANAE is _not_ an option).
SPEWS has made themselves completely irrelevant in my eyes.
Just want to pipe in and say you
are right on the money. We acquired
our IP block from a telecom only
to find that the IP range was listed
in SPEWS. We have had the IP range
for 3 years now, and it is still
listed in SPEWS.
It is unfortunate though, that many
administrators just sign up their
mail servers to all the blacklists
they can find without considering
the quality of the lists and how they
are maintained.
At risk of introducing facts to this debate, would you mind giving the listed IP/SPEWS number for the listing you're talking about?
Why should SPEWS remove a listing immediately upon removal of the spammers? The "policy" you seem to be thinking of is:
"In time" does not mean immediately. How many months did you harbor spammers? More to the point, what's the relevant IP address or range? Without specifics, your complaint rings hollow.
Of course. The NANAE regulars have seen every flavor of spammer lying and evasion. You're looking for a naive audience that might give you some sympathy.
SPEWS wasn't made to please spam hosters. It was made to keep your spammy network away from my inbox.
Again, if you think you have a legitimate complaint, post the IP range in question.
i'm not going to post the IP range.
"in time" should not mean >6 months. we were in the list for maybe 1 month before booting them. the spammer is *long gone*. IN FACT, the spammer moved before we kicked him off our network, and SPEWS recognizes this, and yet still lists us.
the reason i won't post to NANAE or here w/ the IP range is because it's pointless. SPEWS shows very clearly just how silly the anti-spam movement has become. dealing with anti-spammers is like talking to a brick wall.
I've seen plenty of claims like yours posted on NANAE. Most of the time the claimant is wrong - there is still an ongoing spam problem from the listed IPs. So without knowing more about your particular situation, the balance of probability is that you are incorrect, and there is good reason to list your IPs. Often enough, however, the claimant is right and SPEWS neglected to unlist them. In those cases, SPEWS reacts quickly, usually moving to a level 2 listing.
Here's my point: I've yet to see a single case where the IP was listed in error and SPEWS didn't immediately fix the problem.
Also, the attitude of anti-spammers on NANAE doesn't really matter. No matter how much venom they hurl at you, if they can't produce objective reasons to keep you listed SPEWS will delist. My observation is that SPEWS is not looking for a "vote" from the community - they are looking only for evidence of spam support. I've seen IP's delisted while the NANAE regulars are still out for blood.
I assume he means a 450 reply, not a 550? 550 won't make the message stay in the queue, 450 will.
Why even bother with Spews? Why not Spamcop, who doesn't block half the planet?
Dude, where's my packet?
Why drive a Ford when you've already got a Chevy available? It's a matter of choice, preference, features, etc.
-- "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
This is just a lightweight SMTP server which takes over anyone who is SPEWS listed and rejects them. A decent server like Postfix + amavisd & SpamAssassin will already do this with little overhead.
More reinvention of the wheel, I fear.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
SpamAssassin is nothing more than an advanced filter. This stops the spam before it gets to you and fills up the offending mail servers disk space with it.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
The author states that it's for OpenBSD. Any clue if he plans to port it to other flavors of Unix, such as Solaris, HP-UX, Linux, IRIX, etc? This sounds like a useful honeypot tool, I would be curious to see how well it works in actual production (translation -- I'd like some stats).
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
To me, this seems exactly the right strategy, although how well it works in practice will be interesting to watch.
Helium balloons want to be free.
Err, SpamAssassin isn't exactly what I'd call "low overhead". While it's pretty good at what it does, it still has potential to slow my 32MB mail server to a crawl unless I tell spamd to process only one message at a time.
And that's only filtering my mail.
SpamAssassin has to parse the whole message body, so you've already accepted it. I didn't mean to make it look like it was super low overhead with SpamAssassin, I meant that it's low overhead without it, and that with SpamAssassin you can do a lot more.
I oughtta Preview before Send more often. I type too fast and it gets confused
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Spews is EVIL. Plain and simple. They block IPs based soley on the fact your upstream provider hosts or has hosted in the past, someone the SPEWS "admins" (and I use that term losely) believe to be spammers. It is impossible to get off their list and if you are a customer of C&W you probably have IP space being blacklisted by them. Blocking large blocks of class Cs, just because someone happens to share IP space with an alleged spammer is the WRONG way to filter spam.
Please take a look at http://www.antispews.org for more information before using SPEWS.
It doesn't reject messages. It defers them forever, telling the open relay to "try again later."
This tool is a weapon against open relays. The goal is to fill up the open relay's hard drives by deferring the incoming mail, rather than just rejecting the messages.
Yes, you can do this with other blacklists as well, but nobody seems to be actually doing that.
You can setup SpamAssassin in a site-wide configuration. You could also put it together with MimeDefang and integrate it with Sendmail.
I thought half the email on the planet was spam though!
Spam is annoying, but it isn't that big of a problem that we need Slashdot posts every day about it..
Annoying to the end-user, yes. To an ISP or firm with a large mail server it is more than that. Spam fills disks, uses bandwidth, wastes employees' time, etc etc. This is a super idea.
Trolling is a art,
- Let some customers spam
- ignored abuse complaints
- did nothing while when that particular spammer's IP was listed.
- Only took action against a spammer when
the SPEWS listing expanded to include non-spamming customers
- Whinged that SPEWS was unfair and not the right
way to do things
Every day SPEWS proves itself necessary and effective at getting otherwise unwilling providers to remove their spammers. Note that SPEWS uses an escalation process. The provider has to ignore complaints for a while to have the IP range expanded to include non-spammersIf you can suggest something that is half as effective at raising the cost for spammers as SPEWS, please suggest it. SPEWS forces providers to decide whether they want to host exclusively spammers or host exclusively non-spammers.
But if your goal is merely to filter spam (making life easier for the spammers) then you are right. SPEWS is not the way to do that.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Can anyone explain why you wouldn't just use SpamAssassin?
Once the spam is in your system then your bandwidth, disk space and other resources have already been consumed by the spammer. This prevents the spam from ever coming into your network and put the burden of the load back on the spammer's shoulders.
Damn fine work.
Trolling is a art,
I remember when I applied for a Mead mailing list and got a nasty letter back saying 'your SPAM has been rejected!' just because I sent it from a Rogers.com address, so I know what it's like to be blacklisted like in SPEWS, and it sucks. That's not the way to do it.
Also, this new spam program retaliates and the law is very nasty about vigilantism and retaliation, perhaps because it threatens their monopoly. I don't want to see a spammer WIN in court, do you?
Also, program like popfile doe a great job of removing spam.
My advice is to forget kicking the spammers ass and just make their work vanish down a black hole like it will WHEN BAYESIAN TECHNIQUES ARE USED AT THE ISP END hint hint...
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
What Theo should be doing, instead of sending a 5xx response (which, by the way, won't keep the message in the spammer's queue; a 5xx is a final rejection) is to redirect spammers' connections to a Teergrube (a spam "tarpit"). If enough people do this, the spammer will be slowed down greatly.
uh...I can't believe this is modded as "Interesting." The mail server sending the spam will get the 450 error and save the message to try again later, not the mail server of the domain faked in the headers.
jeez, learn the basics of how email works. If all I had to do to DoS your mail server was send it tons of messages and 450 errors don't you think this would be a HUGE problem?
First of all, I don't think most network administrators -- or their bosses -- know what they're getting into when they use Spews to police their network. If you are an admin who signs your company up for it, be prepared to have this conversation:
And -- you think Spews is effective? After being put on their list I had a grand total of one person unable to receive my mail. I have a dozen other people using my server to send and receive mail to hundreds of people, and according to my logs, among all of us, the sum total of people who couldn't get our email was two. That's the most pitiful boycott I've ever seen.
Works great for me, thank you DJB! Here's a summary of the spamhouses I've blocked (with a 553 error code) over the past few hours. These never even touch spamassassin.
1 57-- formulatedmail.com1 28-3.stanfordintl.co m- 1 .61-1 1.22-mail.dmx4.comm 2 .15-. 176-mtsbp512.email-deliveries.net 5 .162-0 .206.207.206-200-206-207-206.terra.com.br. 115.56-mail16.justforyou-mail.comp assionup.com. com
64.70.22.99-outbound1.lamailer.com
209.236.32.
216.19.164.127-127.opti9.com
65.126.119.178
64.201.128.3-netblock-64-201-
66.216.111.187-mail213.rm23.com
63.96.237.154
216.109.73.35-om40.yourmailsoure.com
211.90.19
204.73.107.103-
209.189.49.102-
209.123.1
216.19.163.204-204.sbase30.co
63.70.105.139-ntls1.digitalriver.com
66.197.16
209.47.251.15-smtp5.rapid-e.net
209.236.57
202.103.64.43-
66.216.116.78-mail153.myfunsleuth.com
65.107.19
209.213.210.18-mailer18.labeldaily.com
20
66.216
64.119.213.95-
66.216.107.233-mail233.dealdelivery
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
550 is a temporary denial. 553 is a permanent failure (rblsmtpd switch is "-b"). spammers usually just move on to another host if they keep getting 553's. 550s tell them to keep on trying, which is bad on the receiving mail server if you're getting a pretty heavy load.
/23's and /22's of a network that i run, just because abuse@domain.com did not respond fast enough. The only way to get off of that list is to post to a newsgroup, and just hope they read your posting and take off the ban. That means it is a total manual process on their side to remove you.
on a side note, i would advise against using the spews.org list. it is almost impossible to get off of that list. they recently decided to put a few
in my eyes, using something like sbl.spamhaus.org or/and relays.ordb.org is a much better solution. If you are going to go the DNSBL route, and you should, i would advise you figure out how to run your own DNSBL so you can quickly add and remove hosts that are mailbombing your server.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
I use something very similar, MessageWall(.org). This is a smtp proxy with excellent filtering. So no need for something new.
I won't go into the validitiy of using SPEWS as a blocklist - there are good arguments pro and con there.
... s... l... o... w... l... y...
But here's a twist to the basic idea:
Given the the email sender is in $BLOCKLIST, have the filter daemon give the 450 response
v... e... r... y...
Combine a teergrube with the 450 response to fill up both their mail spool AND their socket connection table.
(For those who don't know, a teergrube (tarbaby) is a mail server that response slowly to a spammer, the better to tie up his connections).
Now, not only will the open relay's mail queue fill, but it will run out of (file descriptors|sockets) and choke on that too!
www.eFax.com are spammers
At my last job, that is exactly the conversation I had. My boss said: We get too much spam here, do whatever it takes to stop it. I said: Sure, I'll have qmail do some rbl polling before accepting mail. Worked great for about a month...cut roughly 50% of the spam that network received. Then, boss says: Why can't I get email from ebay seller X? I say: Oh he's rbl'd...we don't take mail from there. He says: Ok, turn off the rbl.
After that, I turned on my own bayesian filtering and said F the rest of the network/users.
-Ben
If message has a '!' in the title, delete.
I don't see how it's wrong to send it back to the open relay. They are saying, "Here, have this," and you are just replying, "Not right now, thanks." That's perfectly valid use of SMTP codes. It's not like you launch an attack every time you get email from these relays, you're just telling them you don't want it right now. The idea is just to take the pain of SPAM away from the user and give it to the ones responsible (to some extent) for it. The open relays caused it, they should deal with it.
SPEWS is not a list of open mail relays. SPEWS (Spam Prevention Early Warning System) is a list of "spam sources." Some of those spam sources may be open relays. Some of 'em may be open proxies. Some of 'em may be spammers themselves (e.g.: Topica).
Regarding those that have found yourselves SPEWSed, yet are not, themselves, spammers: I'm sorry you've found yourselves in that situation. But, you see, kinder, gentler methods have been tried for years and have not solved the problem. It only continued to grow worse. And whether you like it or not: SPEWS works. I've never, in all the years I've been battling spam, ever seen ISPs boot spammers off their networks like I have since their netblocks started getting SPEWSed. You blame SPEWS for your problems but the truth of the matter is this: you've chosen to use an irresponsible ISP for your connectivity. If your ISP had been responsive to spam complaints, their netspace wouldn't have gotten SPEWSed.
Note: my personal net space was SPEWSed once. For a short while. But my ISP is a good one. They addressed the problem promptly and got their space delisted.
While some of the spam detecting algorithim's are cool and innovative they are still prone to circumvention. The best spam blocker I have ever seen used whitelist blocking. If I did not send you a message you cannot send me one unless you go to a web page and entered the reason that I should see your message.
...
This blocked 100% of the spam period
Got Code?
This is mainly intended to prevent open ( poorly configured) email servers from being used as relays by spammers. The open server's disk space being gobbled up by causing them to spool the relayed email will certainly get the admins attention. This will shift the problem away from servers that recieve the email and onto the open relay which lets the spammers spam us with no easy way to trace the mail. The problem with tracing the email is that the poorly configured relay server is maintained by someone that usually ignores the emails asking them to close their smtp setup or to please examine their logs and let us know who was using them as a relay.
I think your sympathy is misplaced due to a lack of understanding of what allows the spammers to keep sending us all of those wonderful offers. If they don't have access to open relays, then they either have to keep moving their spamming servers when accounts are terminated or buy bandwidth off the backbones directly from qwest, AT&T, worldcom, etc... Either way, the spammers costs go up.
Do you feel bad for the people you hear about in the news that get charged with maintaining a dwelling for criminal purposes when they leave an empty house to be over run with drug users? Same principle is involved here.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
What tools in Linux would one need to do the following:
Setup a pop3 server / smtp server so that email can be sent and received.
Filter spam / easily add filters to this pop3 / smtp server on the same box.
Also be able to check OTHER accounts on OTHER pop3 servers, download them, and filter out the same spam / things marked as spam.
Noobie proof is a good thing too.
PS - If BSD does it better then linux, post those tools as well. Maybe make it a chalange to see which OS can do said request better. Could win32 win (heh) ?
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
They are not innocent. They are open relays, and deserve the punishment.
You are absolutely right. Although I advocate using things like SPEWS, you must make it clear that it will block mail from legitimate users. You either have to persuade people that this is right (as I believe) or not do it that way.
See this policy statement as an example of using such a policy, while making it clear that it will block mail from legitimate users.
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
1. I am customer of a small ISP. I don't send spam, and my ISP actively fights spam. Nevertheless, my ISP is on SPEWS - bad luck, wrong netblock.
2. I have zero incentive to change my ISP, and thus my ISP has zero incentive to put pressure on their upstream network operator.
3. Why ? Because I am blocked by bad luck, nothing else. I could change the ISP, but any new ISP might have the same bad luck. Changing providers will cost money, and will not secure me from future problems of that sort.
In short: the overzealous blocking by SPEWS removes any incentive to change ISP or exert any pressure on upstream providers. If it's just bad luck to be blocked, it may happen anywhere and anytime, and changing providers does not make any sense.
At my place of employment we have been filtering all incoming e-mail for ourselves and our small ISP through SPEWS and various other lists. Just now I checked and found that since 4:00am when the logs switched over we've blocked just over 2000 messages. About 1600 of them were because of SPEWS. This is a system with 6000 users and we've only had two or three complaints since we started filtering a few years ago.
That seems pretty effective to me.
Oh, and the boss loves it. As soon as we implemented the filters his spam load saw a *huge* decrease. He has even used the filters as a way to persuade a few of our more foolish clients to fix their open relays.
the point is to punish open relays, not to block spam. the mail has to be retried for days, wasting network bandwidth and space.
if a signifigant number of people were to employ this, open relays would become crushed and filled with their own load.
Actually, antispews.org is likely being operated by spammers, as the Osirusoft FAQ suggests. (If nothing else, they are spammers of USENET newsgroups, since they kiboze for references to "SPEWS" and troll in response, much as Serdar Argic once did with "Turkey".) Naturally, spammers are pissed off at SPEWS, because it is simply put the most effective tool presently in the field for denying spammers access to (1) victims, and (2) willing ISPs to host them. Innumerable spammers have been terminated as a result of SPEWS listings.
There is no conceivable informed controversy as to whether or not SPEWS is effective at getting spammers off the Net. Whether or not SPEWS is a good tool for your site to use as a tool for reducing your spam count is quite another question. In my personal experience (as a security and email administrator for my site, which is a research institution) SPEWS is extremely valuable. I read my mail logs and ascertain that SPEWS usage blocks spam, with a remarkably low incidence of false positives.
In the past week, our incoming mail server has blocked 969 messages on account of SPEWS, with zero reports of false positives from our users. (To be honest, we get about one such report a month, and we whitelist the offending IP address. It's usually in China; we have several Chinese researchers.) Our locally maintained blacklist blocks about twice as much spam, and our use of sbl.spamhaus.org blocks about five times as much -- but that is biased by the fact that we consult those lists before SPEWS, and there is a good deal of overlap between them.
I would not recommend that ISPs who offer email service to their users use SPEWS by default, though it would be a valuable optional service. The DNSBLs I would recommend everyone use are:
These are all low-to-no-false-positives lists which I feel comfortable recommending to every ISP regardless of its stance on SPEWS.
Actually, it seems spammers use the same phrases in advertising the same stuff....just by filtering subject lines alone by regular expressions I'm rejecting about 5 spams a day per account, and the rest of the spams are rejected by bouncing e-mails based on source domain of bulk e-mailers (like host4bulk.com, e-mailpromo.net, etc.) I'm now getting 2 spams a week to the 6 accounts in my domain. I may next go to filtering the body of the mail, since there are expressions that keep popping up that none of my friends would ever use
Yes, the person is at fault for not knowing what is going on with an open relay. That is the job of an admin of a system exposed to the internet. This method is only preventing them from handing the email to you. They already accepted the email, that dosen't obligate me to take it from them if I know it is spam, now does it?
They are the ones that are allowing their resources to be misused, I just wouldn't them to pass along the misuse. Are you just dense or are you a spammer trying to defend the undefendable position?
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
However, I find it funny (hypercritical) that the weblog is hosted by a ISP that tolerates spam, Hurricane Electric. Specifically:
- Hurricane Electric's customers include major spammers, such as Bulk ISP Corp.
- Hurricane Electric's customers often show up in my spam trap, usually harvesting email addresses.
- Hurricane Electric's mail servers have open relays, which allows spammers to spam using their servers. Yes, I know it makes it easier for HE's customers to read email anywhere, but it allows spammers to flood others with spam also.
I'm sure others can add more, but I have other things to do . . .Having 550 messages sent based on a bayesian filter such as bogofilter is the best/most adaptive way to handle the problem. Open relay lists have a greater statistical probability of blocking legit email. The challenge this represents is that, unlike with Spews, you have to have clients which convey back to the server which emails get marked as spam.
http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
Partial listing:
1, 65.165.237.126, HUFFNAL / underage-girls.net
1, 65.165.238.144, HUFFNAL / home-lolita.net
1, 65.165.235.230, HUFFNAL / mail.webspace4all.net
0, 65.165.239.144, HUFFNAL / dealsonpc.com (listed)
1, 65.165.235.205, HUFFNAL / trust-bill.com
1, 65.165.234.1, HUFFNAL / Spammers Perez/Walls / mortgageleads.tv
1, 65.165.232.0 - 65.165.239.255, HUFFNAL / Todd Spears/Perez/Walls (Sprint)
Looks like a pretty scummy net-neighborhood. If their ISP doesn't want to clean it up, I don't think I'd want any email from them either.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
What illegal act? You're just not accepting the email that they're trying to dump on you.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
don't believe what you read on SPEWS. some of their records are over *6 months* out of date. probably longer. worst. bl. ever.
Filtering out any email that has "This is not spam" would be a good start. :^)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Spews is exactly the same.
- They disturb legitimate users: I run a business hosting an email customer support application (Neotonic.com). It is very important for us to get email support replies thorough to customers. Numerous times our IP addresses have ended up on the Spews blocklist because of some unsolicited mail sender in the same 256 address subnet. At most colocation facilities, ten or more companies share the same subnet, and it is not easy to change your IP addresses.
- There is no way to track them down: Organizations like MAPS are judicious about how they block IP addresses. They do NOT block entire subnets unless there is cause, and they have an organized appeals process to take care of their oversights. Spews has no such facilities. In fact, the only centralized item in spews is the spews.org website.
- You can't get them to stop: They block entire ISPs, and their FAQ says that I'm a victim of "rare inadvertant blocking". The trouble is, we followed their advice, we moved to a new colocation, with an entirely new bandwidth provider, and our new IPs are also spews blocked. There is no organization to appeal to, there is no way to get this fixed.
Legitimate users like us can't keep changing IP addresses because SPEWS is too aggressive and has no organized process. If you want to use a spam advisory system, use MAPS RBL.Spews is worse than the spammers, because at least I can ignore the spammers.
indeed I do: /^Subject: .*this is (no|not) spam/ REJECT 553 that WAS spam
That won't work. A 550 error has to be given before the body of the email is sent. A filter can drop the email into /dev/null once the body has been received, but you've already accepted the email from the sender.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
here Works for me(TM).
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
This is about as illegal as you not answering your phone when it rings. More correctly, it is like you listen to the first 3 seconds and hear a recorded 'offer' and hang up without listening to the entire telemarketing speach. Get a freaking clue.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
IF you people would read closer, and THINK, much of the criminal activities i was talking about were an *analogy*.. I was trying to relate this to something that was concrete and not subject to interpretation ( i.e., the house burning ) as Spam is.
But that said, the last i heard, unauthorized use of computer resources IS a crime, here in the states at least.. And as far as I'm concerned what Theo is proposing constitutes unauthorized use of the so called 'offenders' systems, therefore criminal. ( this is NOT a slam on Theo btw, as i do have respect for the other things he has done )
But the main point i was trying to make was obviously lost many posts ago.. so i give up. Go ahead and justify your activities however you feel you need too.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Please give an example of a SPEWS listing that was created because the admins didn't like someone personally.
Of course, there are plenty of people in news.admin.net-abuse.email who add to their private blocklists anyone who threatens to sue people over a SPEWS listing, but that's another matter entirely...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
try spambayes. works great.
Check out this thread. Apparently realdpk harbored spammers for about a month, and then SPEWS took an additional 6 months to delist him. I'll refrain from repeating what I wrote in that thread.
I use SpamAssassin on our Qmail server using Qmail-Scanner. Works great. Out of the box it catches 95% of my spam.
All I need to do is set up a few outlook rules to parse the headers it places. Everyone else in the office seems to enjoy its results as well.
-- DrZaius - Minister of Sciences and Protector of the Faith
Seems that one day I checked and our ORDB filter was letting more and more stuff through over time. Traced it down to the fact that ORDB only blocks open relays not open proxies.
Now I read about Theo's gloating over how his s/w is going to send 550's back. Well guess what? You can't 550 an open proxy.