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Kevin Free

Posted by michael on from the mitnick-schmitnick dept.

An anonymous reader writes: "Surely many of you will remember that before there was ever a cry to 'Free Dimitry Sklyarov', Free Kevin Mitnick was the call of many. He was convicted on 'hacking' charges, though many on the Internet found the charges and trial to be unfair. He was freed in January 2000, but not allowed to touch a computer or log onto the Internet until January 20, 2003. See the story at CNN or read some background info at freekevin.com. "

45 of 414 comments (clear)

  1. I'M FREE by Kevin+Mitnick · · Score: 5, Funny

    PRAISE THE GOOD LORD, USA!

    1. Re:I'M FREE by buckeyeguy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Guess he's still got the 'edge', if he can sneak in a first post on a thread about himself ;)

      --
      I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
  2. Free Kevin? by Rayonic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wait... you mean free-as-in-beer, or free-as-in-speech?

    --
    [PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
    1. Re:Free Kevin? by gezerk · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's perfectly clear to me, they mean free as in WILLY!

    2. Re:Free Kevin? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hee hee. Next time somebody uses that tired and never-was-all-that-appropriate cliche, "Free as in speech or free as in beer?" I'll know just how to respond.

      "Do you mean free as in bird, or free as in Willy?"

      Hee hee. The people who take themselves too seriously are going to love that one.

      --

      I write in my journal
    3. Re:Free Kevin? by Waab · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think this merits a third freedom option.

      • Free-as-in-beer
      • Free-as-in-speech
      • Free-as-in-Kevin
    4. Re:Free Kevin? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 3
      The philosophy holds that any software license that permits software that was in the commons to be removed from the commons is not "Free." What is unclear about that?

      The part about "free." The word "free" does not mean "bolted down." It means "free." If software is truly free, then it's not tangled up in restrictions, prohibitions, and obligations. Everything released under the GPL is thus entangled. Therefore, that which is covered by the GPL cannot possibly be called "free" by any widely accepted definition of the term.

      The FSF gets around this by providing their own definition of "free." That's playing dirty pool, in my opinion.

      ...works derived from such works may be released under a closed and proprietary license without consequence, thus removing them from the commons.

      This may seem like nitpicking, but a work derived from such works was never in "the commons" to begin with. It is not accurate to say that creating a closed work derived from an open work removes anything from "the commons."

      The problem arises when people-- you may or may not fall into this category, I don't know yet-- hold the opinion that all software naturally belongs to everyone, and that trying to keep your own software secret is somehow stealing from this "commons" thing you mentioned. That idea runs counter to everything I believe about private property, so I cannot accept it.

      based on some e-mail conversations I had with him following my receipt of a tirade purporting to be from him following release of my book -- an interesting story I would relate if anyone cares

      I care. Would you tell the story here or in a journal article or something?

      But support for the philosophy and the license terms of the GPL certainly does not automatically make me your mental inferior

      Did I imply that I thought that was the case? If so, I apologize. Anybody can become confused, anybody can find himself in a situation where he's not thinking clearly. The fact that you're not thinking clearly doesn't mean you're not smart; it just means that, as I said, you need a couple of whacks from the perspective baton to reset your mental gyroscopes, to get you back to level.

      As to why I feel compelled to be the wielder of said baton, I'll just copy-and-paste the quote that Slashdot felt compelled to display for me at the bottom of this page: "The most difficult thing in the world is to know how to do a thing and to watch someone else doing it wrong, without commenting. -- T.H. White"

      What any of this has to do with Kevin Mitnick, however, escapes me.

      I've forgotten, too.

      --

      I write in my journal
  3. Let's hope he won't get into trouble again by sisukapalli1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Say, by watching DVDs on linux, or reading an e-book on linux, or... The odds are stacked against him. I suggest he take up VB.Net classes and work on IE plugins and IIS maintenance.

    S

  4. So where's the story here? by goldspider · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wouldn't this story be more appropriate on Jan. 20? Or are you setting yourselves up for a pre-emptive Dupe?

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    1. Re:So where's the story here? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Kevin is in the news now because this week the FCC has ruled that he may renew his ham radio band license. Mitnick has had that license since he was a teenager, never used it in the course of his hacking, and this stays clear of his ban on networked computers because it doesn't need a computer.

      The FCC ruled that he has done his time for his crimes, so there's no valid reason to deny the renewal. Unfortunately, it took Kevin thousands in legal fees to get them to reach that conclusion.

  5. Well... by jgalun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am less than sympathetic towards Kevin Mitnick. He committed a crime, and he got punished for it. Poor baby.

    However, I think not ever allowing him to use a computer again is a foolish punishment. Computers are too essential to life in America today for that to be a reasonable punishment.

    Personally, I would like to see some sort of bargain between the court and Mitnick, whereby he gets to use computers again, but will face an ever tougher punishment if he is discovered hacking again.

    1. Re:Well... by weave · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I am not sure what I believe as to his guilt or innocence but it wasn't right he was held for years without a trial.

      At least he wasn't busted under Bush's watch, else he would have been labeled an enemy combatent and been held indefinitely with no access to council let alone having charges bought or opportunity to fight them in a court of law.

    2. Re:Well... by Malcontent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a matter of proportion, something most Americans seem not to understand. Kevin Mitnick would have been better off raping somebody. He would have spent less time in jail and he could still make a living. Does that seen just to you?

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    3. Re:Well... by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I am less than sympathetic towards Kevin Mitnick. He committed a crime, and he got punished for it. Poor baby."

      I'm inclined to agree. The injustice was not that Mitnick was tried and convicted for his crimes, but that he was treated as if he were some super-dangerous uberhacker, when in fact, he caused a lot more hassle than damage. The government imbued him with this mystique that is out-of-balance with what he actually accomplished.

    4. Re:Well... by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not sure I'd like to be the first hacker in a media frenzy.

      I'd choose a longer trial so by the time I got it, it wasnt a circus.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
  6. 'Ol Kevin by j_kenpo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh yeah, I remember the "Free Kevin" campaign, especially since every issue of 2600 for the longest time had something about it. I remember their big campaign to get Miramax to drop the movie they were going to make about the whole incident, where the "heroic" FBI agent chased down the "evil" hacker, who suprise attacks him and hits him over the head with a trash can lid. Pretty funny. They had a thing on The Learning Channel about him, Woz, and Capt Crunch a few weeks ago, interesting show. You have to respect someone who managed to stay on the run for over a year, create a fake identity, and get a high paying job at a law firm with that identity. Too bad he got caught in the end, after all it was nothing but a set up for the goverment to make an example out of someone...

    1. Re:'Ol Kevin by theLOUDroom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If I were to have my way, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" would be the method for issuing punishments to criminals.

      "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."-Ghandi

      Lemme guess, you've never done anything illegal in your entire life?

      The world is not black and white. So you would kill murderers? Well, how much evidence do you need to decide to kill someone? Death isn't exactly a revocable punishment, now is it? If the judge makes a wrong decision and sentances an innocent man to death does he get killed too? There are tons of other questions like this that illustrate why "an eye for an eye" doesn't work.

      You're also showing your lack of understaning of people in general. Crazy punishments wouldn't do as much as you think to deter criminals. Criminals aren't exactly the most clever, forward-thinking individuals around. That's why they're criminals. If the really thought about their future they'd realize that committing serious crimes is not a good idea, even with our current punishments.

      --
      Life is too short to proofread.
  7. Social Eng 101: How to get Access. by Neck_of_the_Woods · · Score: 4, Insightful


    He has pulled the biggest con of them all, now they HIRE HIM to do the security.....

    Bravo, this guy is a work of art.

    --
    Neck_of_the_Woods
    #/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
  8. Interesting Perspective by glSt0rm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am looking forward to seeing what his first experience with, say, Windows XP, or the new version of Mandrake is ... Not anyone else, perhaps NO one else, was a hard core computer user, took a say .. 10 year break .. and is now gonna be back in the system. Should be interesting to hear what he says ..

    1. Re:Interesting Perspective by rmadmin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, considering the fact that he's already used them, I'd say your a bit behind.

      but not allowed to touch a computer or log onto the Internet until January 20, 2003.

      This is wrong. He's been able to use computers for quite a while now, he was just banned from the internet. So, in theory, he's been able to use MDK and XP, which you can purchase at a store. (Why anyone would use MDK when Slackware exists is beyond me). Jokes aside, if I remember correctly, I read somewhere that he was heavy into Solaris when he got busted.

      --


      Can all fish swim?
  9. Not So Free by LittleGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Info Week Version, for those slashdotting CNN

    Mitnick was freed in January 2000. The terms of his probation, which expire January 20, require he get government permission before using computers, software, modems or any devices that connect to the Internet. His travel and employment also are limited.

    Also:

    Christopher Painter, deputy chief of the Justice Department's computer crime section and the former assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted Mitnick, said that once the former hacker's probation is over, he won't be subject to any special surveillance.

    "Not any more than anyone else would," Painter said. He added that "if there's any indication that anyone is engaged in illegal conduct, we're going to look into that."

    So, it's not all reset-button and blue skies against Da Man. Until Mitnick gets a full-blown Presidential pardon, he's going to remain a marked man.

    --
    Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
  10. Free Kevin.... by Alric · · Score: 5, Funny

    Geez. That brings back memories. I used to have that yellow and black bumper stick on the back of my car. One summer I was driving to SummerCon, and I was pulled over by a Georgia state trooper, on 85 right outside of Atlanta. He actually knew what the sticker meant, and we discussed the merits of the case. It was a very cool experience and made me regain some trust in our government, all of which has subsequently been eroded. AND I only got a written warning for going 83 in a 70mph speed zone. Hell yeah.

    1. Re:Free Kevin.... by MacAndrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      You have *significantly* improved my stereotyped impression of Georgia state troopers. :)

      Note that you benefitted from prosecutorial discretion. Mitnick did not, I think largely because he was such as asshole and ticked off the wrong people. If you'd had his kind of publicity you'd probably still be breaking rocks in Georgia.

      The (apocryphal) tale I remember was of a woman who was zipping through Georgia late at 90 MPH to be stopped by a classic Cool Hand Luke trooper with an attitude. He drawled, "Lady, no one drives that fast in Georgia." She quipped, "Sherman did." And spent the night in jail.

      Ouch.

  11. I don't get the whole Mitnick thing by g4dget · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It strikes me that the hacking he did was pretty dumb and not much different from what probably thousands of other kids did, that the systems he broke into were managed poorly, that the people who tracked him down weren't all that smart either, and that the whole thing just has been milked by everybody for their 15 minutes of fame. It's just so much more media-friendly if a mediocre hack gets portrayed in terms of super-villains and super-heroes.

    If there is one thing at all notable about the whole thing, it's the ridiculous overreaction of the court during the sentencing.

  12. Kevin's $19,000 amateur radio license... by wherley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Story here. in it, Darci says:

    "In totality, defending himself in the FCC case, cost Mitnick approximately $19,000, making his license the most expensive one in America. He is currently selling items on eBay to recover the costs incurred in this action. He is also still accepting donations to his FCC defense fund."

  13. Free Kevin first.. by Travoltus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ..then let's free EVERYONE who commits acts of unauthorized breaking and entering, stealing personal information, etc.

    It's amazing how much sympathy has poured out for a guy who stole people's credit card numbers...

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:Free Kevin first.. by ahaning · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's amazing how much sympathy has poured out for a guy who stole people's credit card numbers...

      I believe you're referring to these credit card numbers. Note that all three of those links indicates that Mitnick was not alone in obtaining those numbers.

      If you watch Freedom Downtime (buy it there or search the web..you're encouraged to share this one) you'll see the creator of DefCon (I believe that's the con..) saying how that file was traded like "bubble gum" and that "everybody had that file ... If you didn't have that file, you were nobody."

      Mostly, the sympathy is for being accused of things he did not do.

      --
      Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
    2. Re:Free Kevin first.. by JSmooth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Another truly amazing fact is how little you know about the case. Though Kevin's actions may not be justified neither were the government's. He was held for five years with NO trial. Let me say that again NO TRAIL. I keep forgetting. I thought it was those evil facists countries that did that kind of thing like... America...

      And of course the claims from Sun, Novell, etc that he did tens of millions of dollars of damage (which is why he became such a sensation) were never held up in court. During the actual "trial" no company could produce anything but cursory evidence to the damage he did. As for the credit card fraud. Err. I mean file he had this same file was in the possession of any decent hacker at the time (kinda like being a *nix geek and NOT hanging out at /. if you can imagine). What he did was completely wrong. What the media and government did to him was worse.

      This was not an eye for an eye but an eye for the whole freaking body.

    3. Re:Free Kevin first.. by LabMistress · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem with Kevin's story is that a lot of it is based on myth created by John Markoff and other reporters, and not fact. The statement that you made is completely false, and Kevin was never indicted nor convicted of stealing any credit cards. I refer you to a story on my site. Please pay particular attention to #3.

  14. Irony by Aggrazel · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Not being allowed to use the Internet is kind of like not being allowed to use a telephone," Mitnick said Thursday in a phone interview.

    hehe

  15. Re:Foolish Punishment?!?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My wife worked in the courts for a few years and while people lost the "privledge" of driving for multiple DUI and DWI's that "never" stopped any of them from driving and "rarely" caused any of them to server more than 30 days (which also was a rare occurrence).

    I'm sorry, but someone who gets tanked and drives into a school bus killing a dozen kids on a revoked liscense due to his 11 DWI's typically will serve 1 year + 1 day in jail.

    Kevin hacked into computers hypothetically causing monetary damages.

    Kevin goes to prison for 5 years plus 2 years of strict probation where you'd better believe he's being watched like a hawk. The poor drunk spends 1 year + 1 day in jail (9 months with good behaviour) and gets to go out and celebrate by getting tanked and driving a car that night.

    does that sound fair?

  16. Kevin Mitnick got exactly what he deserved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Surely many of you will remember that before there was ever a cry to 'Free Dimitry Sklyarov', Free Kevin Mitnick was the call of many. He was convicted on 'hacking' charges, though many on the Internet found the charges and trial to be unfair. He was freed in January 2000, but not allowed to touch a computer or log onto the Internet until January 20, 2003. See the
    >
    >

    Kevin Mitnick was a theif and a fool. He wouldn't have given a shit about any of his "supporters" if positions were reversed and it really amazes me to see that there are still some morons who haven't copped onto this fact.

  17. Re:now the question is by Angry+White+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exactly. Hacking has always been more about thinking outside the box rather than knowing how to program. Anyone can learn a new language, and given time, the nuances of the language. It is easy to learn how to accomplish a given task, but to visualize the task, that's where the magic lies.

    --
    You think that I'm crazy, you should see this guy!
  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. Got to meet him in person. by GMontag · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Kevin was in the DC area for his book signing tour "The Art of Deception" in November this year. He showed up at the DC2600 meeting and hung around for a while.

    Very personable, helpful, nice guy. No, he did not talik me out of any cc#s or pws, hehe... well... I don't think he did...

    I spotted him walking through the food court and said "Hey, there's Kevin", he circled around a few times, guess he did not hear me calling his name, and he sat down and stayed for the meeting. As would happen, it was the smallest meeting in years, only 3 of us were there before Kevin got there and I don't think the count got above 15 all night. Go figure.

    Several of us got him to sign blank CD-Rs (he wrote "this is not my data" under his signature. He also gave away copies of his book (free as in bird ;-).

    I got signed disks for my son and me, then many of us went to his book signing at Microcenter the next day. He drew a pretty large crowd there too. Bought 2 copies of his book, one for me one for my son and added the signed stuff to my son's Christmas stuff.

    A few years back I helped out with the "June 4th, Free Kevin" demonstration in front of the US Supreme Court, was glad to finally meet him in person.

    --
    Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
  20. WOPR? David Lightman. by puto · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was busted hacking MCI and ATT in 84 for long distance codes(for phreaking purposes), which I then used to call bbs'round the world. I also was accused digging around in patient info in two local hospitals.

    I was all of 14. I could pass myself off as a bell employee, had a valid ID. I was able to get a list of celeb phone numbers and harass them in a 14 year old manner.
    These are all true.

    1. Yoko Ono- Asked her to send me nekkid pics so I could start a bulemics club using her photo instead of stinking fingers down our throats.
    2.Don King - Called him and home and asked who did his hair cause I wanted a similar doo.
    3. Joan Rivers, just to tell her she was a hag.

    Busted into teleconferencing systems, wreaked havoc with corporate PBX's.

    I did all of this stuff with a group of friends, we social engineered, brute force attacks, all done from a hodge podge of Apple //s,Trs80s, and one Commode 64.

    We had a great knowledge base of other hackers plus bell lineman headsets, phone company gear.

    In short we had a lotta fun and did a lotta damage to companies. 250k in phone charges to MCI alone, and the only reason we got caught was because an early 80's version of a script kiddie turned us in.

    Fortunately most companies were amused, we showed them our exploits, they made us promise not to tell, and cut deals the FCC and with our parents not too let us touch comps for 5 years. No court, no fines, nothing. A little tiny slap on the wrist.

    And I was very angry then. Now I fondly look back on that time with a grin(as do my parents NOW) and thank god my parents did not have to shell out 250k for the hacked codes, or for the 500 floppies of pirated software, or my ten meg drive fulla of bomb plans, software, and general mayhem.

    Point is that we can do a lot of damage with our curiosity. Mitnick had others peoples code, compromised systems, and got busted. You do something illegal, and especially in an industry with closely guarded secrets you are going to get burned, and deserve punishment. It could be corporate espionage or selling out to a foreign power.

    AS for the security not being good. If I walk into the 7/11 and Apu is in the bathroom and I know I can walk over and steal a bag of funions and a Big Gulp without paying, does it make it right? If I know I can bust into a system and take whats not my mine? Does the crime justify my curiosity?

    If I get caught speeding can I tell the cop that I was just seeing how fast she goes, just this one time?

    He knew he was wrong, and looking at his crimes, he messed with some big players, and felt the heat. Albeit some of it might have been unecessary, but a message was sent.

    As for Kevin, he just built on a culmination of tools and tips that others had been sitting on for years and using. I do not see any shining brilliance, just a very intelligent guy who used availible tools. Like Linux and UNIX tools. Making use of availible resources.

    Social engineering is a tool employed by charming people and sociopaths. I, unfortunately, know it is one of my great skills, but rarely trot it out anymore.

    We all wanted to be David Lightman and see Protovisions latest games. And Lightman got bit in the ass wy a WOPR(always wanted to say that)

    And in the old days the spirit of hacking was fun. We did get into systems, the phone company, build blue boxes(and the other ones) stole payphones and hooked them up at home, hacked the blue special box at kmart to turn it on by remote(best hack ever). And in the day we policed ourselves.

    Puto

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  21. Re:Foolish Punishment?!?? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Funny

    My wife worked in the courts for a few years and while people lost the "privledge" of driving for multiple DUI and DWI's that "never" stopped any of them from driving and "rarely" caused any of them to server more than 30 days (which also was a rare occurrence).

    I find your "use" of "quotation marks" somewhat "confusing." Do you "mean" them as "irony" or as "emphasis?"

    Just "asking."

    --

    I write in my journal
  22. Re:FuckKevin.com by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If he doesn't walk through the wide open security hole you leave, somebody else will eventually.

    The moral of the story: Don't leave holes in your security. Be prepared for anything, including the imposters on the phone who claim to the be the CEO. Yeah, it means the insulting hassle of having to authenticate the CEO's identity every time he calls, but if you don't you're talking a risk.

  23. Re:More interesting by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 3, Funny

    Where he states how he's going to raise money for his $16k legal fees, making corporate videos for how to not be socially hacked.

    I have one if you would like to see it, send me a credit card number. email me

  24. DETAILS on his pretrial detention?? by MacAndrew · · Score: 5, Informative

    IIRC Mitnick was held in pretrial detention for ~4 1/2 years, then released on a plea and time served. I spent a while some time ago trying to understand how this happened.

    Now, his initially being in detention w/o bail after an extended run as a federal fugitive should not surprise anyone. If you fled you pretty much demonstrated that you are a flight risk.

    Also, that we was held longer that the 100-day Speedy Trial Act span is unsurprising because of the numerous "tolling provisions" that can stretch out that time. I think most prosecutions are affected by these.

    Finally, that he waived Speedy Trial Act protection is not uncommon and was partly to his benefit, as it gave the defense more time to prepare for trial. In other words, he didn't waive to be nice to the gov't, although he was under considerable pressure to do so.

    All this I understand except -- how did it all add up for 4 1/2 years? I have read a ton of criminal cases and never heard of anything like it. I'm not interested in hearing dark conspiracy theories. I suspect it was a failure of the system more than prosecutorial manipulation, and don't want to see it happen again. Was Mitnick partly responsible?

    BTW, conditions in pretrial detention may have been better -- prisoners there, being pretrial, have incentive to play nice (I visited one of these places, and it was much nicer than even federal prison) -- and the 4 1/2 years may not have been excessive for his second offense, his flight, and other aggravating factors. But I don't think this is the right way to be doing things -- it would have been lovely if he proved to be innocent.

  25. yes, well by Artifex · · Score: 3, Insightful
    before there was ever a cry to 'Free Dimitry Sklyarov', Free Kevin Mitnick was the call of many.


    I'd have bought bumperstickers and picketed for Skylarov (if I felt it would accomplish anything), but not for Mitnick. The fact that Mitnick was abused by the legal system after being caught does not change the fact that, to my mind, he was a real criminal, and Skylarov was not. That's based on my own moral and ethical sense, of course, and I am no lawyer, but it's something I feel strongly about.
    --
    Get off my launchpad!
  26. Re:Free Kevin - with every purchase? by ryanr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I always thought that the idea of freeing Kevin was retarded. I'm not even interested in what he was charged with originally. The guy skipped bail and ran from the law for two years.

    He didn't skip bail. He left on the last day of his probation, which he was allowed to do. Turns out that LE wanted to see him for some reason on that day. Once he heard about that, he went into hiding. He was prosecuted for crimes committed while on the run. He was never even charged with skipping out on anything.

    Why? I'm sorry, but I don't buy anyone's excuses about how there was no way he could get a fair trial under our corrupt, draconian legal system.

    Hmm... and you think the fact that the Judge, who doesn't even try to hide her personal dislike for him, and that denied him his Constitutionally-guaranteed right to a bail hearing, was any cause for concern? You'd feel comfortable being tried by a judge who was willing to publically break the rules to screw you? The dollar amount for damages that the FBI had made up carried a maximum potential sentence of around 80 years.

    The media, for all intents and purposes, keeps the legal system fair.

    The same media system that created the lies about Mitnick that folks like yourself believe, and keep getting perpetuated? The media system that made front-page news out of Kevin, so that LE felt they had little choice but to make an example of him?

    If you are being unjustly accused, there are many American organizations who will work to get the word out about your case,

    The EFF didn't want to help, the ACLU didn't want to help.

    Look at the Dimitry case; ridiculous charges are leveled at him, Slashdot posts a story about it every two weeks, and in the end he gets off

    Yeah, he was innocent, and he got to spend months in jail, and had to stay here even after he was released. Worked out great for him.

    Look at Kevin Poulsen, one of the more famous hackers of the early 80's. He got caught, plead guilty, served a short prison sentence,

    Yeah, him they tried to hang a treason charge on, and he could have faced the death penalty.

    Clearly, our justice system is working just fine, and these guys don't need our help.

  27. I disagree. Kevin broke the law by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Informative
    In my opinion reading a dvd that I purchase is not the same as braking into someone elses property and causing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage.

    Jon Johnson and elmsoft did nothing but *read some files that were originally encrypted on their own systems!

    The DMCA is absurd and I do not like comparing the 2 arrests. If we support anyone who hacks then no one will take us seriously when an injustice occurs like the case with Jon Johnson and Elmsoft.



    The difference between the cases are night and day and the doj actually had a legitmate case with Kevin.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  28. He waived his rights..... by hughk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    He was threatened with all kinds of stuff amounting to indefinite detention without trial and in solitary confinement unless he waived his rights.

    I forget the URL, but it was in the chapter of his book that was "lost in the edit" but ended up on the web. I forget the URL but it should come up here again during the discussion.

    Personally, I believe him. He was a social engineer, not a technical hacker and very good at it too, causing no end of problems to a number of companies. However once caught, he was labeled as 'extremely dangerous' and caught up in a circus where he was first banned from using the phone as well as the computer. I don't believe he was innocent one little bit. At the same time, certain persons involved in prosecuting the case were busy trying to use him to promote themselves. Innocent, he wasn't, but he was treated badly by an incompetent justice system.

    --
    See my journal, I write things there
  29. Re:WHY IS BUSH BASHING INSIGHTFUL? by Cyno · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We have an obligation to treat people like they are human beings whether they act like it or not. I don't trust my government to treat me like a human being when they accuse me of being a criminal, drug user, terrorist, pirate, etc. Labels are the first step in oppressive behavior. Its right in front of your eyes, man.

    Are you one of those millions of people that want me dead? I'm certainly not on your side, unless of course you love me and care for me and want to give me the proper environment to learn and work in. But you're a heartless old republican. :( Nope, I'm not on your side.