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BSA To Join Battle Against DRM
Dunark writes "It appears that two of our favorite enemies are now at loggerheads with each other: According to The Inquirer, the Business Software Alliance has joined the fight against the Hollywood-backed attempt to legislate required DRM (the Hollings bill). Read about it in The Inquirer and also at Mercury News"
So now its nothing more then a battle of bank accounts
I guess so
they will sue each other out of business, guess that's to much to ask for eh?
I am amazed. A flash of sanity for the BSA. The next thing, you know, Microsoft will make the source code for W2000 open source. Or maybe even, I will find a meaningful, rewarding job.
North Korea is planning an attack on Iraq if they don't stop production of "weapons of mass destruction".
It is too much irony for me to take in all at once!
Strange thing, though.... most appear to be missing, and new faces are showing up behind bars.
you're assuming that it's SANITY driving the BSA??
Talk about mixed feelings. Well, I suppose there is the old "the enemy of my enemy" idea....but I much prefer the idea of Tsu Sen, and that of getting your enemies to fight each other...
If they are our favourite enemies then that means they can stick around right?
Seriously, though, I'm suprised to see Microsoft take this position, since they had the most to gain if this scheme takes off. After all, if you can only watch future movies on "approved" OS's, guess which ones will be approved and which ones won't!
All we need is the largest Chip manufacturer, the largest PC manufacturer, and the largest O.S. manufacturer teaming up on things like this. Add NEC, Maxtor, NVidia, and [sic]holy crap snow is falling from the roof around me[/sic] Micron.
Maybe it's not illegal, but it looks bad...
Cover your eyes and click this link!
They both want the same thing. Control your desktop.
The difference is the business model.
**IA wants to control the media of distribution to protect their business model.
BSA wants you to "break the law" with their software watching to charge you after the fact.
You know penalities are "free" money.
Please don't mod this +1 funny, as it's not meant to be that way. I really do find strinkingly large simularities between the way the Nazi's do things and the way certain members of congress try to force the people that elected them to give up their rights. Just because "Rights" is one of the DRM words, doesn't make it right.
I believe in Law that is for the people.
please follow the links...
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
How does that saying go?
."
"With friends like these . .
This is like an American version of Godzilla vs. Mothra, 2 monsters in suits battling eachother in the courtroom, you're not quite sure who'll win, you're not quite sure you care, but you have to watch it and cheer them on.
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
Microsoft is a member of the BSA, is it not?
But doesn't Microsoft *want* to cram all this DRM shit down our throats, so they can achieve greater lock-in over their customer base (i.e. "Switch to another OS and your DRMed MP3's stop working... and you won't be able to use MovieLink!)
The BSA simply wants to do their own DRM, and dosn't want it mandated to them. If the RIAA/MPAA gets to choose the DRM, the BSA has to implement one that they might not like. If the BSA can implement their own DRM, they can charge royalties for using it, and they get to choose their own.
Who are the members of the BSA? I can't seem to find a good source of information.
Isn't this a little like Darth Vader going after Satan? Or the reverse???
First, what the BSA wants is NOT less DRM, it is
Market-Enforced DRM. You can only get your software,
movies, music and what have you THROUGH their
blessed Palladium.
The reason they don't want Hollings bill is
that it forces them to consider things that they
otherwise wouldn't for economic reasons, for
example fair use and expiration of copyrights, which
would come into play IF the DRM solution was
part of a law.
So -- Remember. They are NOT anti-DRM, they just
want to CONTROL the DRM. And it is a LOT more
difficult for government to interfere with
the private choices of individuals (you bought
this hardware knowing it had DRM -- but you
can't connect to your online banking otherwise and
the $10/teller visit fees added up!)
My enemy's enemy is my ... Er wait a minute... I'll get back to you...
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
1) Earnings Management: The first and most important tool Microsoft (see also: va.msn.net, ticker symbol: (VAST) uses is the manipulation of earnings to ensure analysts' expectations are met. According to an ABC News 1/22/99 article by Michael Martinez, Microsoft's own internal auditor, a respected 30 year veteran and former partner of Deloitte and Touche, was fired in 1996 after informing management that their earnings manipulations were illegal and violations of the SEC and FASB laws. He was given the option to resign or be fired and later settled for $4 million after suing under the Federal Whistle Blowers Act.
2) Speculating on Their Own Stock: Microsoft issues a massive amount of put options. During the same quarter ended 3/31/99, Microsoft sold put contracts on their own stock for $400 million, basically betting that the stock will not decline. They need not worry because they are allowed to "cook the books." Of Microsoft's significant cash balance, it is also a financial fact that more than 65 percent of that cash did not originate from product sales but rather from tax benefits associated with the exercise of stock options, employees prepaying their own wages, and the sale of put contracts on its own stock. Microsoft's financial innovation is making a mockery of financial integrity, ethics, and the securities laws, just as Insull did in the 1920's.
3) Convincing Employees to Take Less Real Wages: Microsoft aggressively markets stock options to new employees in an effort to take wage expenses off the books. They also know that they can pocket the exercise price employees will be required to pay to take ownership of the stock. What also seems clear is that Microsoft is still aggressively marketing its stock option program to new recruits. To quote an email received, "I am about to begin employment at Microsoft and the stock option was the selling factor. Does your article overall state that it will be bad for me and will fail me in my retirement planning?" Is Microsoft fulfilling its disclosure obligations to its own employees, especially those that have put their entire 401K balance in Microsoft stock? This explains how 22 percent of Microsoft's massive cash balance has actually come from its own employees in the form of them prepaying their own wages through stock option exercise prices.
4) Publicly touting the stock: In a recent earnings release, CFO Greg Maffei jokingly cited 10 reasons why Microsoft is a $1 trillion company. A common strategy here is to have top executives issue conflicting statements, one talking up the stock and the other talking it down and then within a few days financial analysts all come out with buy recommendations on the stock due to a small decline. They are making a mockery of financial integrity, ethics, and the securities laws.
5) Controlling the media. After issuing several press releases on PR Newswire, Microsoft told the service to stop issuing my press releases. Microsoft is PR Newswire's largest client. PR Newswire is owned by Miller Freeman of the UK, a large media company that publishes many computer related publications including Information Week in addition to Microsoft focused journals such as the Windows System Developer. Miller Freeman does indeed function as if it were a department of Microsoft itself.
6) Stock Option Accounting: It is important to note that any discussion of stock option accounting must address two completely different and independent situations. The first is to analyze the impact of options exercised and already retired and the second is to analyze the remaining options debt outstanding. This study focused on both whereas most media coverage only focuses on the remaining options debt outstanding.
Isn't it all that way?
we all know it's coming anyway. There's no way to stop the copy protection asshats unless a judge orders them to be stopped. You know what the stupid part is, though? Obviously, someone will make a hack to get around it, so it will all be useless, because the people who are exploiting copy protection for making bootlegs for profit will still be able to do so. All of us will be able to copy CDs as we please (as long as we install more hacks on our pc). This will only hurt the average consumer, because there won't be a way to employ copy protection in the stand-alone burners that bootleggers use.
Get off my launchpad!
Please fully expand it as Business Software Association to keep people from confusing us with these idiots.
Help us build a better map!
I say we put the two sides in a steel cage, maybe with some pichforks and chainsaws. Two go in, one comes out.
Or if we're real lucky no one comes out.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Since when was BSA our enemy? Don't you realize that the more they force people to pay for proprietary software, the less the people are inclined to choose proprietary solution over a free beer one.
I bet many companies are evaluating open source alternatives for their existing proprietary applications right now, because they might not have bought quite enough licenses to cover all their use. That wouldn't be the case if BSA was less aggressive.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
Am I supposed to feel better because a lobbying group is working to undo the evil of another lobbying group?
I'm no historian but I think the intent of the people who set up the USA Congress and other government organs was to enable the rule of the people for the common good. Now we see a group of corporations *buying* new laws for their own profit and the *only* thing that has the slightest chance of stopping them is another group of corporations who see a threat to their own bottom line.
It might be nice to see bad laws failing to get enacted but if you believe that the BSA are acting for the good of the people you are very naive. They act for their own good *exclusively* and it is pure chance that in this instance it coincides with what is good for the general population (indeed, there are many examples of the same group working directly *against* the common good).
So rejoice while you can but know this: you no longer have a say in the making of your own country's laws. Every time an expensive lobbying campaign is successful, it is one more battle lost for democracy; the exact legislative result is of little consequence.
I noticed that the Mercury News article was very optimistic about the future of consumers' rights in the 108th Congress. Is this a realistic forecast, or is it still going to be an uphill battle against the ??AA to ensure that consumers' rights remain unabridged by the legislature?
Hi-tech? The Comptuer Systems Policy Project? Is this a new organization specializing in greetings technologies, or have they used a secret DMCA-protected encoding scheme to hide the real name and purpose of their organization?
I hope The Inquirer's fact checking is better than their spell checking.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
DRM prevents piracy; who you going to sue, if no one can use software in violation of its license?
Wouldn't want to confuse real people haters with digital people haters now would we?
It's even more effective than establishing control over the radio playlists, something Tom Petty voiced in the lyrics to "The Last DJ".
No rights to it.
What about joining BSA and making raids to
violators of GNU license (or BSD license)?
`We've been unable to clearly, briefly and understandably present our case,' said Valenti. `We're not trying to hurt anybody. The more movies available on the Internet, the better it is for everyone.'
Does anyone care to explain what exactly does that mean ? It *IS* assumed that these movies are not free for download by anyone....right ?
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/03.drm.ph p
It's seems that a go-to-where-the-evil-is business like the BSA would be all for DRM.
It lets them restrain use of software. UNLESS, they are worried it will WORK and put them out of business!
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
In fact, if a workable DRM scheme were possible, the raison d'être of the BSA, SPA, and similar criminal enterprises is completely kaput, vanished, gone, history . . . you get the idea. Additionally, their members would lose the mind share they currently gain from unlicensed use of their products.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
The biggest friends of business are business men and women. The biggest enemies of business are
The law in the U.S. has become corrupt, as this July 2002 article, linked at the bottom of the Inquirer article, says: Political contribution watch.
I've done some research about how law is made in Oregon: Airplanes are safe, but laws often crash. (For those who live outside the U.S.: Oregon is a U.S. state.)
Basically, it appears that the law in the U.S. is being driven by those who have a financial interest, not people who have the best interests of the country in mind.
Let's hope these two bleed each other as much as possible before realizing that they can gang up on the rest of us.
There are two responses we should consider. First, we could ally ourselves with the BSA, in an effort to demonstrate to third parties that the free software movement is not simply a collection of unreasoning zealots (a perception Stallman has managed to promote unfortunately), or we can just sit back and watch the carnage. Although the former is a more reasonable and politically benefitial stance, I favor the latter, just for it's sheer entertainment value.
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
Microsoft's DRM scheme serves as yet another way to lock people into their operating system by restricting the choice (of content) that is available to users of other operating systems.
Think about it: if Microsoft is successful at convicing Hollywood that their content will only be safe on Microsoft Windows systems, then Hollywood will only produce content for Microsoft Windows systems.
Microsoft may actually fear legislative attempts at creating DRM schemes, since those attempts would be much less likely to favor one OS over another.
Shame on Google.
one DRM to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
When the devil wants something good, you need to be very afraid and look for what massive evil he is trying to push.
The BSA does nothing for the good of anything but their own pockets. They are looking to mold DRM into something that lines their pockets.... The forcing of DRM from their members not something that is open nor something that has limits.
Anything the BSA does is pure unadultered evil that is only another way to extort money out of the citizens of the world.
BSA = an extortion racket.. plain and simple.. and unfortunately, they now have a new racket scheme that they want control of.
The Business Software Alliance is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to the United states of america... and they need to be watched very very carefully.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I thought we were talking about the Boy Scouts of America, and somehow I thought /. would be the last place to hear about them. Plus, the headline didnt really make sense with the Boy Scouts of America. Anybody else misread this? These headlines need to be clearer. :)
... The RIAA merge with WinMX
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I read how the DRM is bad, and I agree. As a customer, I would not ever purchase something that limited MY USE of it.
The BSA is an extortion racket of the worst kind, not so much as what they purport to do, but rather in their methods of DOING It. The same can be said about the RIAA, MPAA, and even so much in the aspect of DRM.
Which brings me to my question: When did I become a CONSUMER as opposed to a CUSTOMER?????
I have seen the trend in the computer and electronics industry from as far back as 1995 to state that I, as a user of a certain product, no longer have the right to Support of that product when it messes up, that I no longer have the right to ALTER the product that I PURCHASED with my Hard Earned CASH to make it NOT prevent me from using it in a way that prevents it from messing up other items, and NOW, the fact that if I DO alter, fix, repair, modify or explore that product that I as a CUSTOMER bought, I can and will be prosecuted.
This is not the America I grew up in. This is not the America I swore to defend.
Yes, I know....Welcome to Corporate America. Where wars are fought not to win, but only to deplete the ever standing supply.
The mantra has gone from "This we'll defend" to "You better BUY it NOW!!"
You keep going until you die..."Me".
I must be geting old . BSA = motorcycle
a good one or bad one depending on how much you liked to tinker.
Maybe the computer and consumer electronics manufacturers should cheerfully agree to implement DRM in all their products. But with a catch. Anything "flagged" for less than full user rights would be difficult or impossible to play. Pop-ups, klunky interfaces, using the good-old TV remote to dive into 8 levels of menus just to watch a single "protected" TV show. Give Hollywood all the "protection" they can stand, and then punish them brutally whenever they use it. After all, there will be no market for new computers or other electronic gizmos unless user rights are respected. Surely the manufacturers realize this.
Of course this is the way it is.
One business, seeing how they can be harmed by another business, indirectly protect the common good by protecting themselves. I think it was stated much better as part of the game theory in "A Beautiful Mind."
See my editorial related to this topic, rather than me saying the same thing here. :)
Point taken, that the BSA is not serving the interests of fair use any more than the movie moguls.
However, when two titans are fighting, they distract each other.
This opens opportunities for the little creatures to sneak by with what would otherwise attract resistance from the titans.
For example, while congress-critters are trying to sort out the mixed messages from the lobbyist crowd, they might give a little more weight to the public's messages.
The opportunity lies in a carefully tuned message that plays on the combined weaknesses of the conflicting commercial interests.
Holy smokes, what is this world coming to that the Boy Scouts of America has to get in on the Anti-DRM fray!
This sig no verb.
And find it ironic that Jewish Hollywood have become the nazis of our day
There have been numerous reports of the BSA harassing Unix or open-source shops out of ignorance/malice (choose one) because they have the mentality that all PCs run Windows. Businesses have been destroyed because of them.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
...at least not in the sense that it applies to their software. I agree with the posters who argue that some of this is about control, and how the BSA wants it for itself. I also think that software vendors DO NOT want to eradicate software piracy. They DO NOT want a world in which their code can't be copied, and people instead pirate code from companies that don't use the technology or switch to free OSes. The fact that MacOS X installs without license keys or other copy protections is not accidental. The bottom line is that the software vendors want you to use their code more than they want you to pay for it up front. In the current scheme, they can get the BSA to shake you down for cash after the fact, but they want those eyeballs seeing their software.
This is not the America I grew up in. This is not the America I swore to defend.
Unless you're at least 50, this is the America you grew up in, because you've been a consumer since the first time Eisenhower sent a vacuum cleaner manufacturer to the Soviet Union to show them all about what freedom means to us. And it continued through the 1970s when Disco was the corporate tweeze and everyone was dismantling to manufacturing sector to buy powder for up their nose and the 1980s with the PMRC and Jack Valenti, who is pushing Dick Clark for longevity. And, oh yeah, the latter 1980s when everybody was sick of career politicians and wanted business people in office and hooray for Ross Perot. And people were pointing out the dangers of this the whole time, but nobody cared, so long as the trash gets picked up, and if anyone did notice, they were all called Paranoid, Commies, or Right Wingers. Guess what! Big, fat, hairy, thwacking surprise!
And now you've noticed it. Oh, my. I bet they're just quaking in their boots at this new American Spirit.
With DRM, there is no need for the BSA.
In related news, four pale men on horses have been spotted riding through cities around the world, sometimes accompanied by winged swine. Scientists think this may be inded the end of the world. And now, sports news!
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
If DRM were implemented then everyone would actually know if they are in compliance with their licenses or not. The BSA would lose their big audit stick. Can't have that. No audits, no BSA.
And in America Too!
See we really do not have all that much differnt from our soviet comrads! Make peace not war!
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
BAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
They're still both out to get us though. Make no mistake. But let weaken themselves.
the grass is trampled!
-- ancient saying from Africa or somesuch.
I'm only saying this since rash uninformed proverbs with no real content is a great way of getting "+5 insightful".
Somebody was bound to post this, so I might as well get the karma...
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
becasue hell has frozen over.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
OK, I sorta owe South Park for that one... ;)
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
... when the BSA raids the RIAA to look for pirated software while the RIAA is raiding the BSA to look for illegally downloaded mp3s.
If DRM works BSA is out of a job!
You didnt think of that one, right?
We substituted the coffee Slashdot normally drinks with "Sandoz Crystals", Lets see if they notice the difference
BSA would be out of business if no one could ever "pirate" their software.
I'm not talking about the companies in the alliance, but the alliance itself
in 2002, BSA fiercely campaigned against "piracy" by faxing and sending letters to companies and universities regarding their software license or lack thereof.
What about Intel and Micro$oft?
Both of them are pushing for their TCA (Trusted Computing Alliance) platform, wich essentially utilizing DRM.
This move seems to be a bit contradicting their own plan.
IMHO, as it was stated numerously before, they don't want their software/product 100% "pirate-proof"
Bring on the DRM. In the past software has been used to circumvent software and hardware has been used to circumvent hardware (and one has been used to circumvent the other). So I predict nothing will change if hardware and software is legislated into being. However things will radically change if the piracy and copyright laws are strictly enforced.
SHUT UP YOU FUCKING MORON
Boy Scouts schmoi scouts, I'm sure they mean Birmingham Small Arms.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
bravo... about time somebody busted these nerd fucknuts out of their self centered delusion that the world will be a living hell if Kazaa is outlawed, or if they can't pirate the latest Windows incarnation just so they can piss and moan about how evilly good it is.
about lawyers and sharks - they don't care who they eat even each other.
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
5+
What a country!
Common enemies make strange bedfellows.
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Just a little FYI.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
BSA WATCHES YOU!
We substituted the coffee Slashdot normally drinks with "Sandoz Crystals", Lets see if they notice the difference
I too thought they meant the Boy Scouts of America. They're certainly one of my enemies, but I don't really see how they'd rank up with the RIAA and such here on /.
Ignorance is bliss and I'm suicidal.
man makes machine that allows pigs to communicate telepathically, floss and fly. when the test pig was asked about the BSA's stance on DRM, it replied "i won't believe it until the fat lady sings!" in other news, the fat lady singing corporation liquidated their assets today.
MS is the majority member, founding member and has the most control of, over and in the BSA. If you look at their neat figures and understand them, you will see that 90% of their "successes" battling piracy are MS related, and most instituted by MS.
Of course MS will not endorse a bill that puts into question their (stolen) DRM technology, much less one that legislates how DRM will be implemented (regardless of who implements what).
Rob
WebMaster:
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XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but
MS (I mean the BSA) and Sony (I mean the RIAA) will come to an agreement and the bill will then have the support of both... or MS will endorse the bill while the BSA will fight it, making MS look like a big hero, achieve their end results and more. Takes the pressure off of them for all they have the BSA then continue to do on their behalf. - Rob
WebMaster:
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XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but
I really do find strinkingly large simularities between the way the Nazi's do things and the way ...
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
If we let "them" define the terms, then we've already conceded a large part of the debate. You'd end up having to make an argument for why consumers should have the right to break copy protection in order to pirate intellectual property. As opposed to, say, citizens exercising their right to protect their possessions against accidental damage or wear and tear.
We are fucked, it's just a matter of choosing a flat rate fuck or a pay-per-fuck model. I thank you for both for clearing that up.
Now, I must go cry.
His so-called "law" is just a bullshit method of stifling debate.
...if this kind of pedantic rambling passes for "clever" where you come from.
Where I come from, this kind of sophistry is considered sophmoric.
At best.
Both.
There is a fundamental difference. When Oregon laws are faulty, there are two reasons: 1) Nixon: Someone wants something and needs a faulty law to get it, and 2) Boot sector: The legislators just aren't thinking clearly.
Does this fulfill a merit badge requirement?
Eat at Joe's.