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Hiding Your Choices And Saying You Made Them
An anonymous reader writes "Lawmeme's Paul Szynol describes how during installation RealPlayer hides checkboxes that elect that the user receives spam, making it look like the user chose to make the selections when in fact he probably just didn't see the options. "This is essentially a cheap and dirty marketing tactic which creates an illusion of informed acceptance by the user where no such acceptance really exists." Other people have posted similar examples from other applications. Is this illegal, or just annoying?"
If they don't show the choices at all, then this hopefully is illegal. I did accept it, but I accepted the choices given to me. But then what do I know. I am no lawyer.
BTW, isn't it ironic that the acronym for I Am Not A Lawyer is I Anal??
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Is this illegal, or just annoying?
Okay, I'll offer myself up as the sacrificial lamb and ask the obvious: Why would this be illegal?
Your email address is now 'a@b.com'. Despite what Trust-E has to say, Real has a history of ignoring privacy matters. I've never in the history of my using RealPlayers put in an actual email address, other than something with an @ and a .com in it. They can market to /dev/null all they like.
Getting spam is almost as bad as... using RealPlayer. At least they are consistant.
activestudios web design
Let's face it. There's stuff out there that you want to see that comes in real format. If it's not downloadable, then I skip it. But if it is downloadable and not restricted to stream-only playback, then I don't hesitate to fire up Real Player, secure in the knowledge that it will never be able to communicate my personal details.
Learn to use software firewalls if you can. Hardware firewalls are great for keeping people from attacking you, but software firewalls are great for managing misbehaving software installations like Realplayer. I've never had a better security tool.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
While I don't know the laws on minimum text size, I am sure that a company cannot make you sign something in .001pt Times New Roman. This is probably very illegal for them to do, and they will probably get away with it...
Tibbon
tibbon.com
If we have to risk making "choices" that we had no idea about to install priatary software, then why install it?
This has always bugged me about Real Player. Their newest player installs a lame little executable, that isn't easy to get rid of, that starts up their little message center in the system tray. It was bad enough with their old version which loaded RealPlayer every time you booted, but at least you could turn it off.
These days, if it is encoded in Real it isn't worth my time to watch. I make sure everyone I know is aware of this too.
then you deserve to get spam. That's what Hotmail is for. Gives you a free address that you don't care about, and soaks up bandwidth that Microsoft has to pay for. It's a win-win.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Maybe software should come completely unconfigured, with all options set to some kind of null value. It'd be a lot less user-friendly that way, but in another respect it'd at least be user-respectful.
I can't stand Real media, and haven't had their player installed on my systems for a few years now. Unfortunately, it means I have to pass on a lot of content that is only available in that format -- including NPR archive broadcasts, of all things. It's particularly galling that *public* funded radio archives are made available to the public in a format that is not Free.
Why can't websites publish streaming video in some kind of open format that doesn't suck? What's wrong with ogg or mpeg?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I noticed that quite a while back when I installed RealPlayer. I say it's annoying just because I have to remember to disable those checkboxes. I also say it's gotta hurt them, because it makes me place my feelings about Real (the company) at a very low level. I don't think it's illegal, and I know they're out to make money like everyone else. However, I say don't screw over your customers, and they'll come back. Piss them off, and you will certainly regret it later. And yes, I know the RealPlayer I download is the free version, and I'm not technically a customer, but if they pull that stuff with me on the free products, I can only imaging the "features" they'll put in the big version I pay for. Again, my opinion of them is quite low because of their tactics.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Yep, know exactly what the article is referring to. There's a scrolling box for 'we can market these things to you:' and by default none of the visible checkboxes are marked. However, if you actually scroll the box there are 5 (i think) options at the bottom of the list that are checked.
Tricky Tricky Tricky
And this isn't just on installation, it happens if you fully open RealPlayer to change the stupid take-over-your-computer prefferences.
This is one (of the many) reasons why I don't install RealPlayer on any of my machines, and encourage friends to remove it from theirs. If sites don't have their downloadable content in an alternative format (QT, WM, MP3, Ogg, i don't care which) I just won't watch/listen to it.
I'm doing my part to force 'em out of business. Sure, they are providing competition for MS/Apple, but I find their business practices despicable.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
But that has not stopped people before. P.S. the End User Agreement itself has NEVER been found to be legal. If they do not get a real honest to god SIGNATURE, than it does not stand up in court.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
This is where your email spam account comes into play.
Actually you don't even need to use your spam account for the realplayer setup- it doesn't authenticate the address for you to use the player.
Mine currently set for 'biteme@real.com'
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
IANAL. Of course, if you wanted a real legal opinion, you'd ask a real lawyer. So here's my best guess:
There is no legal issue at stake here. Real doesn't need to ask your permission to send you spam any more than Laurent Kabila's widow and toner salesmen do. If a law were passed banning opt-out spam, then there would be an issue as to whether this constitutes opt-in.
The linked site, which does seem to be by an actual lawyer raises the question of legality, but in a hypothetical question about whether a similar technique could be used in an EULA. There seems to be precedent that it would be invalid.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I refuse to use real any longer and the truth of the matter is they are hurting them selves with these types of cheap tricks.
I only wish I could convince people putting up media on the web to not encode using real.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
No, no, no..it doesn't. Because a EULA goes multiple pages does not that mean you are not obligated to obey it because you couldn't read the whole thing. You are responsible, as an end user, for reading all the documentation that is provided. If there are documents referred to by links, it's your responsibility to read those as well.
These are similar to the reasons why people hire lawyers...you don't want to get screwed by some hidden text somewhere that you were too lazy to read, so you have someone else read it for you. Taxes? Same thing, lots of small, hidden text. These are all *legal* documents, they're just obfuscated.
I hate EULA's and the like as much as the next guy, but it's your responsibility as a user to read through stuff that the product provider wants you too. Otherwise, you are subject to their default intentions (which are probably ill, in this case).
--trb
This is why things like www.mplayerhq.hu are so darned good. It can play the RealPlayer format with having to use the evil, user-unfreindly RealPlayer.
.rm with it)
And MPlayer is open source so they can't hide this kind of crap on you
Sorry Windows people...this is a Linux thing (and yes, you can stream
IANAL, but this is something that anyone over the age of 12 should understand. Just because something is not "illegal" (or unlawful) doesn't mean that it's fully accepted. There is a gray area.
If you force me to sign a contract, it may not be illegal. But it will be unenforceable - contracts must be entered into freely.
If I sign a contract, then you change the pages in the middle, it may not be illegal. But it will definitely be unenforceable - you can't change contracts after the fact without the consent of all parties.
And in this particular case, you can't hold somebody to a contract if parts of it are never disclosed. It's one thing for the EULA to explicitly give them the right to do something on a "take it or leave it" basis, it's a very different thing for them to have hidden (or unduely hard to find) checkboxes to "prove" you agreed to optional terms.
This is the reason why every(?) court that has looked at EULAs has held them to be unenforceable - why the companies felt it necessary to force the issue via the UCITA.
Well, my state hasn't passed UCITA and I consider EULAs basically null and void precisely because of their widespread abusive use.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
As I recall, I noted that it was a scroll box, scrolled down, and unchecked everything. - thought it was sleazy, but I caught it.
I avoid using RealPlayer at all these days - I can rest assured that if I have not used it in two weeks , when I fire it up it will ask "There is a new version of Real One player available, would you like to update?".
Anything that needs updating this frequently is a massive POS in my mind.
-josh
Other people have posted similar examples from other applications. Is this illegal, or just annoying?
If you don't read the fine print, and agree to something, and it burns you, and you complain, you are stupid.
It's not illegal. I'm sure somewhere they fully detail out everything, so that the next person who thinks it's "illegal" and tries to launch a suit can be fed the EULA that they agreed to. It's like people bashing Gator for being shady spyware when they fully disclose on their website what they do in big bold letters.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The thing I hate the most about Realplayer is the message service that it installs by default, without the user's knowledge. A few days after installation a little text box appears over the taskbar telling you that you have a message. In W2K the only way short of uninstalling that I could find to remove the message service is to edit the registry keys for startup programs.
Older versions used to add the taskbar launcher app. and change file associations without giving an obvious choice which was also annoying. Real has always been my least favorite media application for these reasons. I'm glad other people find their software annoying also.
Dewey, you fool! Your decimal system has played right into my hands!
"There should be a law!!!" I hear it every day. I figure I'm in some socialist Green country, but then I realize I'm not. People are just unbelievable.
.001 font size, no it is not illegal. It is up to you to say "I won't sign this, and I won't use your product."
If someone gives you a contract in
If someone decides to "hide" some options down a scroll list, or maybe on a back page, it is still your responsibility to see if there is more, before signing it.
If they ask you to "Accept" a 40 page long list of rules and rights you are relinquishing, it is not illegal -- its just lazy of you to scroll through it all haphazardly and click "Agree!" You don't need their product, so close the window and say screw it. Follow up with a letter to their management, and if enough people complain, maybe things will change.
If you enter a fake e-mail address in, THAT might be illegal. Check the text to see. If anything, entering "OK" and moving on just gives the companies the knowledge that you agree (which you do by accepting their terms). Don't regulate these guys with LAWS, regulate these guys with MARKET tactics.
There should never be "consumer rights." I hate that term. YOU are not a consumer, and THEY are not a producer. You are BOTH market exchangers. They are exchanging their product for either your money, your e-mail address, or your personal information. You feel that any of those items you are exchanging is worth less than their product. This is true of ANY market exchange. You produce your cash, or your address, or your information, they product an item or a service.
There are no magic "economic" theories behind any of this. This is common Austrian School of Economics theory. It works. Go check out http://www.mises.org/ to learn more.
Consumers don't exist. Producers don't exist. We're both just equal partners accepting one person's services or products for the bartered exchange for another.
Keep the government out of it.
Is this illegal, or just annoying?
How can you even suggest this is illegal? These are default options. I guarantee you would be pissed as a first time user if Apache didn't come with default options. Whether or not this is in the best interest for the consumer is debatable, but easily justifiable by Real. A simple argument would be that the checked boxes provide helpful information to a new user (funny, i know, but bear with me).
This isn't a product where you must provide a legitimate email address to register. You're getting something for nothing, literally, and it was your choice to download. Skeazy, perhaps, but most certainly legal, and not a terribly large pain in the ass. Compare it to other applications out there (Gator comes to mind, that vile, repulsive worm of a legal piece of spyware) and I think you'll find this process is quite pleasant in comparison.
--trb
This is just another reason why I don't use RealPlayer -- I decode my streams by hand. I have the help of fourteen trained cats, and as the stream is "played' accross a readerboard in front of us we all translate it into .au format.
A central server compares all the files in realtime and averages them to compensate for any typing errors/drunkennes.
It's a surprisingly efficient system. Right now I'm listening to the White House's response to the leopard inspectors in Iraq who just found a forbidden stash of Gucci pants in an Iraqi bunker.
I'm eager to upgrade to a 28-cat system, thus effectively doubling my sample rate and allowing me to listen to stereo feeds and possibly even allow video by... er.... damn, I gotta get a life...
RealPlayer accepts a fake address, and you're not missing anything by diverting those helpful marketing messages.
A lot of people will put foo@test.com in. Don't do that. The test.com mail admin will hate you. Use something @example.com instead. example.com is never going to be a live domain.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Every new REALplayer release always brings up a privacy/spam/security issue on slashdot.
There was a time when Real was one of de facto thing for efficient streaming or simple encoding. Today it's not true. The player is bloated, the codec's CPU/quality factor isn't anything close spectacular (nor good I'd say), everything feels like molasse with their stuff, and on top of that, they are still pulling their dirty tricks. Why do people bother downloading it when there are TONS of alternatives?
Webmaster? heck you can encode DIVX, Quicktime, even Mpeg-1 codecs got good enough to make low bandwidth application (ok not at the same quality, but if you UNDERSTAND the basics of Mpeg you can manage to make a video that is efficient and still retains decent quality, and mpeg is cross-platform with no issues, I still use it, I do proper optimization with the vector settings vs skipping frames and chose the right encoder for the right application, each has it's strong and weak points), You can tweak the right encoding setting for the target bandwidth and voila, you're set. My last contract required me to encore a 4 minute clip, and I manage to make it small enough so dialup users could download it, it wasn't 320x240@30fps, then again same would apply with REAL, unless you like blurry/blocky transition and loads of frame skipping. That's another thing with most low bandwidth REAL content, clueless encoder put "maximum quality/crisp" with low bandwidth, that gives you 1fps or 2 but not on a second calculation but on let's say 10 seconds, you see 1 second with 2-3 frames, wait 2-3 seconds, then se another 2-3 frames, ARGH! it's totally annoying.
I'd rather have lower resolution and see something smooth than seeing skipping or blurryness. With mpeg I was doing 6-10FPS at the same low resolution, it was doing a very good job, wasn't annoying, and the video was actually useful where as the guy who made the "REAL" thing simply should have encoded audio without video for the viewer's sake. Anyways, I've managed to make good stuff with Realvideo but I stopped being impressed after their G2 system, they just bloated the damn thing where some others managed to make better codec, players, and so on.
Anyways, I've fixed the "REAL" problem here at work, all of the REAL networks ip addresses are banned, this takes care of all of the problems at the same time. If someone on a laptop goes download it at home, you can configure your firewall to send you an alert once it tries to do it's thing and go remove it from the offending laptop. This is how you deal with spyware/lameware/FS-EULAware. If everybody would do this, the net would be just a tad more enjoyable, too bad people don't care about this.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I noticed no such thing when installing RP8 for linux. I may have missed it. But is this a windows only thing? Perhaps because windows users will put up with anything?
Best wishes,
Bob
I think the problems here are that:
1) It's a PITA to read through all the legalese in a typical EULA, and this discourages people from doing so;
2) Most users aren't lawyers, and many probably don't trust their own judgment when it comes to evaluating what the real-world effects of an EULA are.
There seems to be an opportunity here. I'd like to see an organization that reviews the EULA's for widespread software titles, and gives them a simple rating according to useful criteria. The rating process could be done by a panel of lawyers or other informed independent individuals. I might even subscribe to such a service, if it were painless to quickly check the rating and block the installation of poorly-rated software.
Read my keyboard review.
I installed RealOne recently, and much to my dismay, they have removed the preference setting to kill "StartCenter". StartCenter is the annoying thing that sits in your system tray and starts up with your computer. In RealOne Player, not only does it have a systray icon, but it also places little pop-up "message" windows on your computer! It's completely disgusting.
;)
There are no preference settings in RealOne Player to disable this, so I thought I'd post this here, since I'm sure this thread will be filled with people who hate RealOne as much as I do.
The startup code for the popup window is hidden in your registry. The easiest way to get rid of it is to use 'msconfig', which comes with every version of Windows except for 2000. (In a minute, I'll explain how to get rid of it on Windows 2000 as well.)
To use msconfig, go to Start->Run and type in 'msconfig' (no quotes.) Go to the Startup tab. You should see an entry beginning with "real". Uncheck the box next to this entry so that it won't load on startup. In addition, look for an entry called "eventsvc" whose command is "c:\Program Files\Common Files\Real..." This is part of RealPlayer as well, and you can uncheck it safely. (While you're at it, this is the place you can disable those useless ATI control panels and other muckety-muck that likes to sit down in the system tray. Don't worry; you can always go back and re-enable the services later if you disable something you need.)
Once you've unchecked whatever you don't want to load, hit "OK". You will be prompted to restart your computer to make the changes take effect. Go ahead and restart. When you log in next time, you'll see a box explaining that your system is now in "diagnostic" mode. Check the box that says "Don't show me this again" and click OK to be on your merry way (hopefully with a faster bootup time.)
In Windows 2000, you can manually edit the Registry to get rid of these keys. Unlike msconfig, there is no going back, so make sure you know what you're doing! Look in HKLM or HKCU under Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run. You should find the little bugger there. Delete it.
(Standard disclaimer: If you screw up your computer doing this, I am not responsible. If you don't know what a key is, it may be best to leave it alone. Doing a Google search may help you figure out what is necessary and what isn't. In general, leave anything that has to do with your hardware alone, especially modem software, as your modem may require it to work properly.)
Also, when installing RealPlayer, always take the time to read the installer to know what it's doing! You can, and should, disable most of the crap it tries to do, such as opening MP3s and auto-updating your RealPlayer with the latest advertisements. Try "compact" mode as well--that should kill most of the remaining advertisements.
I hope this helps those of you who are (unfortunately) faced with RealPlayer's wrath. The tips above can help to tame your system and make it a bit nicer to use your computer.
As always, if you have relatives who use RealPlayer, or you maintain it in an office setting, it may be best to perform that procedure on every computer. There's really no need for workers to be distracted by RealPlayer advertising. If you're using msconfig, don't forget to restart the computer and disable that "diagnostic" mode box that pops up, as well, or your less technically-inclined relatives/co-workers may be calling you for help!
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
(My favorite part of most EULAs is how they say, "User agrees to abide by any future changes Company may make to this agreement." How legal can that be?!?)
Technically, they're being "nice" by making it possible for you to un-check the box at all.
It's easier just to give a fake address like other posters have suggested. We've been using that trick ever since Radio Shack started asking for your home phone number.
-Rick
This may be OT for this discussion, and it may be completely anti-EULA altogether, but is anyone else here aware that mplayer has had Real support for some time now in the 0.90 series? It works pretty good for me and you can even use the included mencoder program to convert realvideo into any number of less annoying formats.
University - a box of academia nuts.
Just as well we don't need to use realplayer any more for "realmedia" content.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Damaging the brand may not be worth the short-term payoff, and may have devasting long-term effects. Doesn't seem worth it to me... especially not for a company like Real.
first of all, if you don't scroll through all the choices, that's your fault, and if you don't use a fake email, that too is your fault. Granted, RealPlayer's policy is immoral, but what else can you expect from companies nowadays?
don't install the fscking software!
After reading about the license agreement in the last batch of betas, I vowed that there will NEVER EVER AGAIN be a new(!) version of RealPlayer that I install by hand on ANY of my computers, or ANY computer that I have a hand in for installing software.
The only content online that this really costs me is the NPR archives and the Dr. Who stuff at the BBC. Should I truly desire to view / hear this content, I fire up an old version of the player that I know doesn't give me hissy fits about spam, because I long ago registered it to an email account that no longer exists.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
Reading comments on the article, I noticed a related discussion on a sneaky install process that adds one of the AOL's domains to the Trusted Sites list in the IE settings, and reportedly modifies the Trusted zone settings as well, all without user consent. I discovered such modifications done on my system too, and I suspect it was either Netscape 6/7 or ICQ. Any evidence on the origin of that "AOL hole installer", to warn the world against?
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Yeah we do it hear it everyday. And it is a terrible thing to hear. At one end, we feel that the government is ultimately the only institution that can protect us from greedy and unscrupulous corportations, and at the other end we get tired of the government interfering in everything.
The law is becoming more and more important in our society. We are becoming an explicitly codified socieity. there are a lot of reasons this is the case. one of them, though, is that politicians need to get re-elected, and if they aren't passing new laws all the time, they are seen as not doing anything. for my part, i think that education, for example, has been reformed enough for a while. any statistician knows that you can't evaluate the results of some reform without ample time to evaluate it.
>Consumers don't exist. Producers don't exist. >We're both just equal partners accepting one >person's services or products for the bartered >exchange for another. agreed! except for one thing. we aren't equal in the larger scheme of things. your statement sounds more like a justification of the inequalities of the capitalist system than anything (actually, it sounds like you are saying they don't exist). But I won't say anything more, because I'm not familiar with the Austrian school of Econ. i will certainly go and learn more about it. ( :
as for Real Player? its not illegal, just shady, annoying, and we should write them and tell them that. and boycott. if they hid it in a way that you would have to hack into the program or install it first to see, then that would be illegal (hopefully)
madcapjack
Logic, macros, and more
Don't agree w/ these practices but, I always use user@127.0.0.1 as my e-mail address. Most programs or websites asking for such information almost always fail to recognize it as invalid. That'll teach em.
That's utter crap. It's right up there with "if you don't install an alarm, you deserve to be burgled and the burgler will be innocent" and "if you wear such a short skirt, you deserve to be raped"
To hell with you, troll.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
You can download RealPlayer 8 at ftp://www.icarusindie.com in the apps folder. It's the last version before they shit all over themselves.
.com. Real.com can have my real name and address when I pay for their software. Until then I'm under 13 and live in Uganda.
Also, thanks to the US government I tend to be Under 13 quite a bit. It's a lot easier than unclicking all those stupid boxes. I'd also like to thank Real for not verifying my moo@cow.com e-mail address and that my name is not actually FUCK OFF.
Seriously though, why are we complaining? You're not required to put valid information in those fields. Even if you feel moraly obligated not to lie, at least sign up for a junk Hotmail account to use when you fill out various forms.
If some site/program actually has the balls to force valid information out of me I go somewhere else. Unless I'm paying you, fuck off
Ben
Work Safe Porn
give a fake adress that will bounce AND check the five upper boxes, to maximize the amount of spam that wil bounce to them.
Alternatively, you can give support@real.com as an address, so support becomes unmanageable.
Yep, this is just like LONG RANTING EULA's that make people not really want to take the time to read them... every company knows that the end user (to which the EULA directly is supposed to address) is just going to click "I AGREE" to get the damn thing working/running.
Another funny situation I saw... two days ago a bus went by me on the street. I had this HUGE ADD on the side of it in 3 foot letters for AT&T long distance. It said something about how you could sign up for unlimited long distance at some low cost... $25 a month or something. The statement had a * at the end. I tried to read the fine print at the bottom for the details... guess how small they were??? About as small as the print in the NEWSPAPER. Try reading that as a bus passes you buy with an advertisement!
It's dirty. I FRIKIN HATE these people and their cheap tactics. They're no better than the Enron execs and should all be SHOT to be removed from this earth on INSTANT.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Unrelatedly, does anyone else find themselves reading Slashdot comments in the voice of the Comic Book Guy? It usually fits so well it could be mistaken for performance art.
Personally, as much as I hate Real Networks, I think these guys are just being babies. I mean "Oh my god! I have to scroll ALL THE WAY DOWN!?" Oh the HUMANITY!
1. Try something completely illegal, like nospam@no.mail.
.com, like svkb@sdljbg.com
:)
2. Try something with a
3. me@privacy.net (or me1...me9). These adresses are actually valid, and made for this purpose.
4. If you need to "answer" to the mail, create a one-time throwaway account. On page 100 of google noone will recognize it as a "free account" if they don't like hotmail etc. Reply, and ditch account.
5. Don't ever give out your real email for any crap. Get a different one for all the newsletters/mailing lists etc. Give your real one only to real people(tm) on- and offline.
6. Enjoy a very spamfree account. That's what I have anyway
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
http://www.spamgourmet.com takes care of that just fine. Disposable email addresses on demand! (Just a satisfied customer.)
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Around 2 years ago I purchased the real RealPlayer, because I was going to do some video development with it. I bought it online, and the purchase process was horrendous. After I clicked buy it, I was taken to a screen with a ton of things checked off for me, including signing up for their monthly subscription for realplayer maintenance - the gold package I think it was. I unchecked everything, but when I clicked next, there was another screen with different things and the gold player was checked on again. I unchecked everything again. Third screen, same thing.
Since I'm in tech, I would like to think I have some idea what's going on and not get tripped up by this stuff. But I can't imagine how the average user gets through this. Anyway, on the next months credit card bill, there it was, 11 and change charge for RealPlayer maintenence. I swear I unchecked everything. I wish I had taken screen shots to prove it. So I go on their web site to try and cancel. To get to my user account was very difficult (of course I wasn't aware I really had one so I had to figure it out) Under subscription maintenence, I finally found the option to cancel. I click cancel. Up pops a phone number to call to actually get it canceled. I was very busy, lots to do, and I think they counted on that. I had planned to cancel when I got home, but of course I forgot. I kept thinking about it at work, but when I got home I would forget again. Three more months went by, before I finally remembered on the weekend to sit down and take care of it. I had to go through the online process again to get the number, which I finally called and got it cancelled, which of course the guy tried to sell me real player again! Never, never, never again!!!
Um....No. If you are hiring a lawyer to read a document for you because you are too lazy to read it, you are wasting a lot of money.
The main reason to have a lawyer review contracts for you is to discover (in the lawyers opinion) how the contract will interact with local laws. An apparently innocuous clause in a contract can interact with laws to produce bad results. Just because a lawyer has reviewed a document doesn't me that you shouldn't also. You should question the lawyer in detail about anything in the contract that you don't fully understand. Don't sign anything that you don't understand.
The Economics of Website Security
I don't use the real player anymore, period. I don't trust a program that tries to contact the internet without telling me what it's going to do. Furthermore, the last time I installed it (quite a while ago), it tried to change my www home page. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with software. Just because I dl your software, I want to change my home page to your crappy website? How does that follow?
Same goes for ICQ.
WWJD? JWRTFA!
I know exactly what you mean.
This might be old news by now, since I never touched anything related to Real after this incident:
Tried to see a commercial recommended by friends, had to download Real One. I always thought Real was free, but had slight trouble looking all over the page for a link RELATED to the free basic. It felt like you had to pay. Found and installed it, I don't remember if it did NOT allow advanced installing options, or it had it but only allowed you to change directories (real advance there....), but it took over MY ENTIRE COMPUTER. Almost everything relating to media used Real. It had a semi-lousy interface, ads up the wazzo, and best of all, uninstalling means you THINK it's gone. All my media files still ran with RealShit. Some would no longer run because RealShit had no idea how to run it.
So instead of doing tracking and undoing the damages done, I emailed them and basically complained lots. From formal degrading to cuss. Near the end, I somehow managed to get rid of it manually. Never will touch anything ram, rm, or realanything.
Did I mention the file I wanted to see was so friggin blocky and poor quality that I ended up waiting for it on TV? (filesize = 1.5m 12 seconds)
This is insightful: The big difference is that it used to be quite clear when you were looking at a contract, and you knew you were supposed to take a good look at it (preferably with a lawyer). Now that contracts are masquerading as installation checkboxes (all the better to fool you with, my dear), All those End-User 101 students are suddenly flunking Advanced Installer Trickery without even realizing they'd been enrolled in the class.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.