Slashdot Mirror
Bushfires Destroy Historic Mt. Stromlo Observatory
Anthony writes "The historic Mt Stromlo observatory has been destroyed by fires. Unfortunately Google cache and similar archives are the only available detailed information. Looks like the web site was housed at the observatory. Telescopes housed there were 74" and 50" reflectors along with the "Oddie" 9" refractor used by the Canberra Astronomical Society. Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops. The view from the air is one of molten domes and twisted metal. These fires have already destroyed 388 houses in the suburbs of Canberra. Luckily the winds have not picked up today, but the danger is still high."
"The historic Mt Stromlo observatory has been destroyed by fires. Unfortunately Google cache and similar archives are the only available detailed information. Looks like the web site was housed at the observatory."
/. story?
Did the fire that destroyed the site happen before or after the
-
"with the "Oddie" 9" refractor used by the Canberra Astronomical Society. Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops"
Is repeated... edit!That's why you're called "editors" -- DO YOUR JOB. Damn, don't you people read these things???
The CNN article doesn't mention the observatory but does have some other details about the fires.
It's Slashdot's evil twin... SlashNOT
"I think I heard something about a number of student houses and workshops being destroyed too!"
Didn't people die in these fires?
I see that Slashdot is now so efficient that we get the repost before the end of the original story posting.
;)
It's good to see progress in action!
Let's give a good Slashdotting before the Observatory passed away...
--
Error 500: Internal sig error
all over again. Watch this be arson as well.
Why not fork?
Life in the northern suburb of Palmerston is free of danger currently. There is a thick haze of smoke high in the atmosphere and when i was just outside hanging out the washing I could stare at the sun as with all the smoke it looked like the moon, albeit with a red tinge. very eiry.
Didn't people die in these fires?
Yes, according to the CNN Story, as posted by mmoncur, three people have died in these fires.
The first time I read the title I was thinking "[George] Bush had fires that damaged the observatory"
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
No, these were started by his daughters after another drinking binge.
This is an interesting article about why some forest fires are more destructive than they could be.
try http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://msowww.anu.edu .au/
MOUNT STROMLO AND SIDING SPRING OBSERVATORIES
Astronomer at work: Alex Rodgers, a Research Fellow and later a Director of the Observatories, at the 50-inch Great Melbourne Telescope in the mid-1960s.
Established in 1924, the Commonwealth Observatory at Mount Stromlo, on the outskirts of Canberra, antedated the University by many years. In 1950 the Commonwealth Astronomer, Richard van der Reit Woolley, was appointed an Honorary Professor attached to the Research School of Physical Sciences; but it was not until 1957 that Mount Stromlo formally became a part of the ANU.
As the lights of Canberra began to interfere with the astronomers' viewing, the University moved to establish an observatory at Siding Spring in the Warrumbungle Range, 660 kilometres due north of Mount Stromlo. ANU scientists and engineers helped design and construct the Anglo-Australian Telescope at Siding Spring, which was commissioned in 1974. An advanced technology 2.3 metre telescope was constructed during the 1980s.
Astronomers at Mount Stromlo and Siding Spring Observatories have made outstanding contributions to astronomy and astrophysics. Research in the 1950s provided the first clue that the Magellanic Clouds had evolved differently from our own galaxy, and so offered new insights into galactic evolution. In the 1990s ANU astronomers were able to show that about 90 per cent of disc galaxies (such as the Milky Way) take the form of `dark matter', the unseen matter in the galaxies' haloes.
The 2.3 metre telescope at Siding Spring, at the time of its opening in 1984. The cuboid building rotates on its base.
Truly an American icon.
Um...
The area outside Canberra, Australia's equivalent of Washington, has been on fire for a few days. Yesterday things got much worse and the fires spread over a huge area, eventually reaching the urban areas.
Atleast 400 homes have been destroyed, and 3 people are known to be dead.
I myself was watching the fires during the day as they got closer and closer to urban areas. (The City of Canberra was designed before it was built and there are lots of bush areas between suburbs). When the wind picked up the fires were spreading over huge areas, and I could see flames about 30ft high, taller than the trees they were burning down.
The sky was completely covered in smoke all day, and it was very dark even at 3:30pm. Traffic was frantic and everyone had their lights on. At the supermarket people were desperately stocking up on food supplies.
A few hours later the dried-grassy area right next to my suburb (Monash) caught fire.. some people were evacuating their homes, while others were desperately putting water on their roofs.
After watching the fires get closer and closer to our homes for about 10 minutes, a group of about 40 of us decided to cross the road and put out the fire ourselves. Some people had buckets of water and the rest used branches ripped off nearby trees.
As we got near the flames we realised how hot the fire was. I could hear people yelling "God that's hot" and "fuck that burns".
We hit the flames with our branches and put out the fire bit by bit. At the same time people ran across with water, tipping it on the fire quickly but surely. Once we'd cleared a certain amount we could get through to the lake just beyond the fire, and some people ran down and filled up their bottles etc and then continued fighting the fire with the water from the lake.
It was difficult to breathe and most people were wearing a tshirt or cloth over their faces. Every few minutes I had to stop and get some breath and try to clear my eyes. There was a sense of communion and group-effort.. everyone working together towards the same ends. We had gone from people who wouldn't notice each other walking down the street to people who were going out of their way to save their homes.
After a while we had cleared all the fire, and we stood around relieved.. I was covered in sweat from the heat, and I had ashes all over my clothes. The others who had also been running back and forth stomping out the fires were in a similar condition.
Once we were sure all the fire was out, as we were looking at ourselves and surveying the charred grounds, someone amongst us triumphantly said "Better than watching our houses burn down!". I agreed.
YOU FAIL IT!!
Lets just hope they had fire insurance. Do those types of places usually "self insure"?
... the slashdot effect against the webserver caused a harddrive failure which caught the computer on fire, which then burned down the observatory? We really need to mirror things!
The fire started when some of the lab's employees got drunk and decided to see who could burn more ants using the telescope.
Professor Frink was in the lead with 13 when they all made another alcohol run and accidently bumped the telescope leaving it pointed at a pile of oily rags in their rush to get "shotgun".
After the comet burns up in the atmosphere to "no bigger than a chihuahua's head" someone yells, "Let's go burn down the observatory so this will never happen again."
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
with the "Oddie" 9" refractor used by the Canberra Astronomical Society. Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops...... with the "Oddie" 9" refractor used by the Canberra Astronomical Society. Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops.
apparently the student houses were imporantat
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Hahah. I'm a Canberran and I find your post kinda funny. I know you deep down you actually feel for people who get their life's possessions burnt to the ground, but often humour is the best (if not only) anecdote.
It's funny the whole 'croc hunter thing'. I don't think I've met another Australian in my 28yrs that has said the word 'crikey' before! It's just one of those things that get sold as 'Australian' to foreigners, much like Fosters beer. (No-one drinks that here).
Prez Dubya Bush fired Destroy Historic, Vice Secretary of Education? I loved Destroy! He was the only good Republicrat in that Administration! We just can't win can we?
A duplicate within the story. Sources within the Slashdot editing staff were quoted as saying, "We're not going to wait for someone else to submit the story again, we decided to be preemtive, and duplicate the story ourselves!"
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
The fires have been burning for weeks in one form or another, yesterday a combination of old fires and new ones reached Canberra. Canberra is often called "the bush capital", it's a city embedded in bushland. So things could have been a LOT worse.
...
The weather was hot hot hot - 37 Celsius. Strong dry winds coming in off a thousand kilometres of desert to the northwest. It hasn't rained here for about 9 months, Australia is currently in the worst drought for generations, so all the forest is tinder dry. Australian eucalypt leaves have a relatively high oil content, when they start buring the canopy can literally explode.
I was driving earlier in the day, and all I could see to the west was a bank of smoke covering the entire horizon. As the day progressed the smoke covered the city downwind of the fires. It was a thick black cloud, like a heavy thunderstorm. At my house the smoke was pretty high up, so the air at groundlevel was fine, just a little smoke smell.
Things could still be pretty bad. Although hundreds of houses were lost, and fire stations, schools, medical centres and so on, all this is really just on the western edge of the city. The city has many other areas which are just as susceptible given the current drought. We're right in the middle of the hot part of summer, and even hopes for rain depend on El Nino ending around about March. If it doesn't, and we don't get rain for another year,
Getting back to the observatory, Mount Stromlo observatory is on the outskirts of the city, on a medium sized hill called, um, Mount Stromlo. Mount Stromlo had a heavy forest cover. The observatory area on the top of the hill was cleared for some distance around the domes, but I guess the fireball from tens of thousands of tons of wood all going up at once must have been overwhelming.
There were a number of houses on top of the mountain for astronomer families and support staff, I guess they must have been evacuated early on, there's only one way down from the mountain.
It's a big historic loss. The observatory has been of reducing importance in past years due to the encroaching city, but measures such as replacing street lighting with observatory friendly lighting were being undertaken. I doubt it will be rebuilt because of this.
Jamie
"The view from the air is one of molten domes and twisted metal."
Yeah, that pretty much describes the linked article.
In a related story, Slashfires set ablaze the server farm at the Australian National University. ...Fortunately, the MP3 and p0rn servers have reportedly survived the onslaught. Film at 11.
"Twas 'orrible, mate!" recalled the sysadmin there, who narrowly avoided burning his (transmission garbled)...
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
I think I was one of the last visitors to Mt Stromlo... I was there just before closing on Friday afternoon, and for some reason did not take any photos... That was a mistake.
There has also not been any people at the Tidbinbilla NASA facility since midnight saturday night according to reports, but it is likely not to get any damage since it is in a field rather than trees. I can assure you that I would not like to be trapped there during a fire since there was a pine forrest right arround, but from memory none closer than about 2 miles.
One of my friends evacuated his computer room at work to his house - with US$500K of equipment in his safe lounge room at home.
I am now back in Sydney... And glad to be out... There are still 750,000 people without power...
Darryl
The Australian government news service, the ABC (similiar to the British BBC) has these links on this story:
e tact-19 jan2003-11.htm
a ctfires/pag es/default.htm
Mt Stomlo observatory severely damaged in fires
http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/act/m
Photos from Canberra:
http://abc.net.au/news/galleries/2003/
Mount Stromlo news
Timothy is tired
He forgot to read his post
Poor slashdot admin
and one for the students:
Students lost their homes
Forest fires rage Mt. Stromb
Students lost their homes
-- -=innocent ramblings from the mind of an insomniatic programmer=-
I knew that Bush was up to no good! Mr. Stromlo's visas probably expired, first, and when he wouldn't answer the calls from the Immigration Office...
--os@#
What's gone now can be rebuilt in time. Hang in there and be safe. The prayers of your friends in the rest of the world are with you.
Fear is the mind killer.
What a pathetic bunch of responses so far. My condolences go out out to those that suffered or lost in the fires. Be safe and lets hope there will be the money to rebuild an important site.
Paul Hogan, the actor who immortalized the Australian bush-wise character 'Crocodile Dundee' was seen being led by authorities. Sources say Mr. Hogan was preparing the grill when, after choosing substandard charcoal briquettes and becoming frustrated at the lack of heat being generated by said briquettes, dumped an inordinate amount of starter fluid on the frigid pyramid of coal. The ensuing flare-up quickly leaped to surrounding trees and student housing. While being led off, Hogan was heard to say, "all I wanted to do was toss just one more shrimp on the barbie."
Yes. Four so far.
I just learned about the Mt Stromlo fire here on Slashdot. My spouse was collaborating remotely with a friend doing research there. (My spouse is safe here in the US, friend was at Mt Stromlo, and have no idea about his safety.) Some news websites says the observatory staff had only 20 minutes warning before the firestorm came up the hill through the pine trees. I hope he got out in time, since there is only one road in or out of the observatory grounds.
Lots of detail at the Sydney Morning Herald but here's a specific story.
I looked around at sites like ircache.net, vancouver-webpages.com, and elsewhere looking for a way to get pages from caches besides of course hitting them from the side of the served network (i.e. with a browser or a spider like wget or wwwwoffle).
There is a hierarchical cache at U. of Melbourne for students there, so if anyone is reading this from a dorm there you might be able to spider the cache of the site to preserve it on your hard drive.
If anyone is familiar with caching protocol and how to query other caches on the net, why not share them here. Much of the data may be on the net. Likewise if anyone knows how much is replicated on other sites it will save people the trouble. I'm just worried that the contents of these caches may expire one day soon..
On another note, to put emphasis on the intensity of some of the fires, it's burning so fiercely that fireballs are being lobbed 20 kilometres infront of the fire front by the intense updraft.
One family was watching the fires from their house thinking they were safe when a fireball fell out of the sky and hit their neighbours solar powered hot water system. The water system exploded and actually put out the fire.
The family took it as an omen and decided to pack up and leave.
...they saw it coming?
This is the email running around amongst the Australian Astronomers ..
... Stromlo Observatory is effectively destroyed. All people are
...
Subject: Update on Stromlo Destruction
I have just gotten off the phone with Gary Da Costa and can confirm the
worst
accounted for which is the most important thing. All of the residential
houses, bar two, are gone, as are the 50", Yale-Columbia, Oddie, Old Admin
Building, Workshops, etc. The 74" and Visitor Centre are unaccounted for
right now, but are on the worst side of the mountain and are probably
lost. Gary is hearing that the Woolley building suffered water damage,
but may be salvageable. Nothing reported on the Duffield. In terms of
practicalities, the loss of the Workshop may be hardest to deal with.
NIFS, the instrument soon to be delivered to Gemini, is lost, and what the
loss of the workshop means for the one they had just been commissioned to
build is yet to be sorted.
More news as I hear it
Brad
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:11:30 +1100 (EST)
From: Brad Gibson
Subject: Stromlo Observatory Destroyed
As most of you are by now aware, most of south-west Canberra has been lost
to the raging bushfires. 2500 people have been evacuated thus far with
400 homes destroyed as of this morning. I am now hearing that all of
Stromlo Observatory has been destroyed. As best as I have been able to
find out, no one on the mountain has lost their lives, although at least
one person died in the Stromlo Forest Settlement. I'll pass on updats as
I hear them.
BKG
Prof. Brad K. Gibson
Damn!!! That was the observatory I lost my verginity in.
Much of the network at the Australian National University is currently down (Canberra has suffered extensive power outages over the weekend). The ANU owns Mt Stromlo and so Web sites may possibly return tommorow. The ANU is safe (currently) as it is located about 20km from fire fronts.
Another article, from the Australian perspective can be found here on CNN/Shm. A very interesting read!
I've been up (trying to catch a little rest here and there) since 9am yesterday morning (it's now 9pm today). The damage here has been devastating. I'd just like to say thanks to all the emergency services personnell for all the work they've done over the last few days. This has been termed the largest natural disaster in Australian History (or so I've been told).
Last night I was up on our roof hosing everything down, the smoke was so thick I couldn't see the flames coming towards us. All we could see was a bright red glow that looked like the sky was on fire. I don't think that's a vision I'll ever forget.
I just consider myself lucky that I'm in the northern area as it wasn't hit anywhere near as hard as the southern suburbs. At the moment I believe that 25% of Canberra is still without electricty, water and gas.
Again, thanks to all the emergency service people who prevented this disaster from becomming any worse.
Everybody from the observatory has been accounted for, they all got out in time.
(Posting as AC because I'm too lazy to get an account)
There's a lot to be said about a quiet life. Yeah it's cold thru winter, hot in summer as the last 24 hours will testify.
Just grow up and keep your fucked opinions to yourself. Canberra is a great place to live, my guess is you've never been here.
Thanks, you Americans are so sensitive. The whole world has to mourn for your disasters, but when people get killed in other countries it's just an opportunuity to make dumb jokes.
"Also destroyed were a number of student houses and workshops."
Just wanted to make sure everyone heard that part...would it be, if my bush caught on fire!
C|N>K
It's GOATSE!
How many australians said that on 9th September 2001?
best wishes,
a foreign bigot
And saw the distant red glow of fires approaching from over the mountains. It could have as easily been a smidgeon north to where I live. I remember:
:o) )
Last night, a harried post-grad rushing around, looking out the door at us, presumably for invading their turf.
Years ago, school trips to Stromlo for science. Technicians fooling about, spilling foggy puddles of liquid nitrogen to impress us.
At college, friend relating a scary tale of my physics teacher driving back down the winding road and waving his hands around and not paying nearly enough attention to driving whilst explaining stuff.
Later at university, a friend of mine being busted by security for burning a bible over Duffield's grave. "It was dark man..."
Orienteering on the map, "Arachnicopia", named for the abundance of spiders on the mountain. Running through thick pine forest, being covered with thick layers of cobwebs and spiders. (Indy eat your heart out)
More recently, work trips there to use the meeting rooms and beautiful views for planning days (my idea
Coffee in a cafe in the shadow of the dome. Pastries and foccacia.
And Friday was the first time ever my GF had been there.
While I have not seen pictures, the local radio helicopter's description was enough for me to fill in the blanks. Broken telescopes in a tangle of black steel.
There's a cool change in the wind tonight and the firies have the upper hand for the first time.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Fires destroy Stromlo observatory
Irreplaceable equipment worth millions of dollars was destroyed when the Canberra bushfires ravaged the historic Mount Stromlo Observatory.
You can check the rest of the article out here or here via AAP
Why, you planning on Nuking Kentucky are you?
Don't have to. Someone else will.
Had you noticed that some people just don't seem to like idiots, and don't like them enough to call them the Great Satan, and to devote their lives to sorting out Kentucky (as an entree), then the rest of the US?
I'll stick with the quiet life, and let you go start your mad wars, and you can wonder why lunatics make bad things happen to you.
So would you say that the student housing and workshops were destroyed?
---
Mike
I'm going to kick the next person that I see with their karma rating in their sig.
Apparently the Victorian Police caught a couple of "Temporary Visa" Arabs lighting the fires down there.
There was also some hearsay from the Federal Police of the same thing happening with the suburban fires happening inside Canberra (ie, not the Forest Fires)
They caught a looter too.
Not in the actual observatory site. They where killed in other places by the same fire. I think 3 were killed in the Canberra Suburb of Duffy and another in the Uriarra forest settlement. But I'm not certain about the exact facts.
-- RTFM:Slackware::Beer:Saturday
Why did they choose to build a national capital city in the heart of bush land in the first place?
Did they think "Hmmm good spot, miles from any other state capital so everyone will be happy, wonder why all those bushes and trees look all black and burnt, nevermind boys lets dig!"
By all accounts this bushfire season has been the worst in Australian History.
Since August\September last year (the usually beginning of bushfire season in Australia is October) we have had several periods (usually lasting 15 days or so) of bushfire threat.
It began last year with Sydney under siege, with fires surrounding the city. And this also happened again later on in the year.
Now we have the whole east coast under threat from the Queensland border to the north of Victoria. This week end we have seen the western suburbs of Canberra go up in smoke, the north of Victoria under threat, all of Australia's Ski Fields under major threat of being wiped out (it is too hot for snow at the moment), with some parts of the fire zones not having had bushfires since 1939.
I am surprised that Sydney escaped Saturdays threat, since the temperature in Parramatta alone was 45 deg Celsius, and was still 40.7 deg at 7pm on Saturday, the only threat to Sydney was a fire in the North.
The problem we have here at the moment is that we have so much dry fuel in the bush, that merely the act of a motorist throwing a smoke butt out the window, can have the potential to destroy property and kill people. This act is now punishable in NSW as arson (which is should be). Not only that but they face a threat that can leap 20km or so, and destroy houses as some previous posters have already mentioned, it is nearly impossible to stop something like that.
I would like to thank our emergency services, especially the volunteers that have been constantly putting their lives at risk since the beginning of the bushfire season, and will continue to do so until the season is over. (I would be out there as a volunteer fire fighter, if it was not for the severity of my asthma).
In short I do not think that Australia has seen a bushfire season like this in its history.
I feel for all the people who have lost homes and loved ones, and hope that you are able to recover from this tragedy quickly, and urge all Australians (and any one else out there in the world) to help out in any way that you can, even if it is only by donating a dollar.
Thanks
Super Elmo
Sydney, Australia.
It is bad 4 confirmed dead, hundreds inured, hundreds of houses gone, loss of electricty gas water and possibly sewrage. I used to study, live and work in Canberra. Will make some calls tomorrow if things have settled down and see if some people are OK. What is really going to piss me off is not just the immediate loss of the Stromlo facilities. With the ignorant dullards in politics (who think the internet is just a rumour mill and debaucher of children) and basic research is something other countries do. Stromlo will not be rebuilt - maybe it shouldn't where it is now located. But there is a very good chance the funding that should go to rebuilding it from the Federal budget, will instead be allocated elsewhere. Even if the ANU has insured the facilties, there is no guarantee that the small scale but important work being done - eg real research of long term value and training (optical) astronomers, will continue. Sidings Springs will continue and get students (nowhere else to do study) but it could be the death of professional optical astronomy in Australia. Yes, other universities have some courses and facilties, but not the reach and depth of what went on at ANU. As the astronomy was not world scale and has no obvious industrial sponsor to benefit form the research, those valuable tax dollars will probably be allocated elsewhere. And as every other country reaches for the stars, Australian students will be learning how to look up a sheep, pig or cows' bum. Don't forget this is the government that does not want to know (ie fund to look IIRC AUD2m/year or less) about any asteroid looking to renovate the South Hemisphere.
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
For those interested, most of the damage was caused not by regular fires, but by a "firestorm", burning embers raining down from the sky. This caused hundreds of spot fires around the suburbs, and in inaccessible areas, gaps between houses and fences, in power poles. This type of fire (this large) has never happened in Australia before.
m .au/National/story_45108.asp
For those blaming fire services for not being fast enough, some facts:
* The Canberra fire forces are equipped to deal with SIX house fires at the same time.
* Over FOUR HUNDRED homes have been destroyed.
Many more fires have burned and been put out by residents using garden hoses and garden tools.
Even those of you without a calculator can probably see where the problem lies.
Some suburbs have lost access to water completely, with water station pumps burned out.
One power station has been completely razed, residents in that area may be without power for a month or more.
Several fire engines and police cars have been lost, roads are blocked by fallen trees and power lines, some of which are on fire.
Firefighters have been out saving other people's homes while their own burned to the ground.
A fire station itself caught fire, and no engines went to put it out, as people's homes were still in danger.
Give them some credit for putting their lives and homes on the line, to save others.
_______________________
News links:
Residents are posting in a Canberra community at LiveJournal.
Canberra Communtiy
Google news about Canberra:
Google news
Canberra Connect Government Website (sometimes is not loading)
Canberra Connect
ACT Bushfire Status
www.esb.act.gov.au/media/bushfire.htm
Red Cross locating evacuees
www.news.com.au
Make a donation to the Red Cross
RedCross.org.au
_______________________
There's news from Observatory astronomers here
_______________________
http://news.ninemsn.co
Fires destroy Stromlo observatory
Irreplaceable equipment worth millions of dollars was destroyed when the Canberra bushfires ravaged the historic Mount Stromlo Observatory.
Research officer Vince Ford, a 38-year veteran of the observatory, told AAP staff were given 20 minutes' notice to evacuate as a fire storm on Mount Stromlo caught authorities by surprise.
A single road through pine forests links the observatory, established by the Commonwealth in 1924, with suburban Canberra.
"There's no way we could have saved it," Mr Ford said.
The fire storm destroyed all the observatory's telescopes and the original observatory building, which dated back to 1924.
"It's gone, it's all gone," Mr Ford said.
"We've lost all the telescopes, the administration building, which was the original observatory back in 1924.
"The first telescope has actually been there since 1910, it's gone.
"The main research telescopes, the 74-inch and 50-inch, they're gone. I've just seen pictures of it from the air and we don't have a telescope left."
The Australian National University (ANU) facility was one the premier astronomy training and research centres in Australia.
"(It's a huge loss) from a historical point of view, from a cultural point of view, from a scientific point of view," Mr Ford said.
"It's an absolute disaster."
Observatory staff still hope they may be able to salvage some of their research, stored on computers in office buildings that might have escaped the worst of the blaze.
The observatory offices are believed to be standing, but have been water damaged.
"At least we should be able to recover the hard disks from some of the computers, but at this stage we're guessing," Mr Ford said.
"All we know is the observatory is gone."
Some back-up files would also have been stored at the main ANU campus in Canberra.
"But a lot of the work will be at the observatory," Mr Ford said.
"Some of us, being suspicious sods, have stuff at home, but most of it would have been on the computers or in the offices up at the observatory."
ANU vice-chancellor Ian Chubb was due to meet observatory chiefs to be briefed on the extent of the damage. ©AAP 2003
The Vice Chancellor for the University was just on the local radio and vowed that the observatory will be rebuilt. I suppose while light pollution may diminish its value to research, it is an exceptional educational facility (plus the street lights around here have been replaced with mercury vapour lamps over the years).
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
the ABC is not an Australian government news service. It is a publicy funded independant broadcasting organisation - the government does get to stack the board but the ABC does not in any sense officially represent the government.
Acatly, it gose both ways, lots of WTC jokes /.
where on
I knew the Quants bagdge handler who was on one of the flights,
most of the WTC jokes i herd came from his nice and nephew.. yes they did know at the time..
Jokes will fly,
and we shall lead the list of those who make them i hope...
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
The loss of Mt. Stromlo Observatory facility is very great loss.
Established in 1924, the Commonwealth Observatory at Mount Stromlo, on the outskirts of Canberra. Commonwealth Observatory was recognized for its important research into the origin and future of the universe.
Astronomers at Mount Stromlo made outstanding contributions to astronomy. It would be difficult to list all of the important contributions to Astronomy made by the people working at Mt. Stromlo. Now, a few come to mind:
One of the principal instruments at Stromlo was the 74-inch (188-cm) reflecting telescope. The 74-inch telescope was erected in 1953, and until the completion in 1974 of the 3.9m Anglo-Australian Telescope at Siding Spring, this was the largest telescope in the Southern Hemisphere. In 1982, it was used to discover the fossil star CD-38245: a star so old that it is made almost purely of gases left over from the big bang.
It also was home scopes such as the robotic 50-inch (127-cm). It was an excellent example of how an older telescope could be outfitted with new controls and instruments to perform innovative work. The MACHO project was conducted on the 50 inch.
Two historical scopes come to mind, the Oddie, and the Yale-Columbia telescope:
The Oddie, was a wonderful 9-inch Newtonian telescope. The Victorian MP, James Oddie, presented this telescope to the Commonwealth government for use in the proposed Commonwealth Observatory. It was installed on the site at "Mt Strom" (as Stromlo was originally known) in September 1911. Over the years the Oddie telescope has made valuable contributions to Southern Hemisphere astronomy; it did some of the first measurements of the brightness, color and spectral classification of southern stars.
The Yale-Columbia telescope, 26-inch Grubb long-focus refractor was erected at this site for the determination of parallaxes of southern stars (it was the largest refractor in the southern hemisphere when first installed.
Moreover, there were other scopes as well ...
But alas, from what can be seen
from the air at this time, most, if not
all of those
telescopes have been lost.
At appears that heat from the burning of the
nearby
bush /trees was hot enough to melt
many of the domes at the observatory.
The Canberra Astronomical Society used the Stromlo lecture hall for their monthly meetings. During public nights, the public had access to a domed C14 scope, the Oddie, and a number of scopes brought to the site by members ... all through the hard work and generous
efforts of the
Canberra
Astronomical Society.
I had the privilege of observing at Mt Stromlo several times and spoke at one of the CAS meetings. I still can recall flying down from the US to a CAS member's home to see SN1987, . I was there only 36 hours after the naked eye supernova was first observed. I still recall seeing the single star, at a distance of over 168,000 light-years, change in color and rightness over the course of an evening. I was one of the most important astronomical events I have had the honor to witness. I recall that every scope up at Mt Stromlo was all pointed at the Large Magellanic Could where SN 1987A was blazing away. The previous observing board schedule was cancelled as people raced to collect as much early critical data as they could in the early hours of the event.
I had the privilege of being with the members of the Canberra Astronomical Society on two of my several total solar eclipses: 1991 in Hawaii, US and most recently the 2001 eclipse in Ceduna, AU.
I look forward to meeting with many of these same people when we go to Antarctica for the 2003 solar eclipse.My best wishes and heart felt sorrow go out to all of those people who worked so hard to make Mt. Stromlo such a wonderful place for the public to visit and who helped the observatory make many important contributions to Astronomy. Much of what was lost cannot be replaced. Still it is my hope that those who are left will be able to rebuild something anew out this tragedy.
chongo (was here)
department of redundancy department
Any maps showing affect ares or such,
Its been a long time since ive been in canberra,
and sofar im not exactly sure where it raind down..
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
So, to put the matter simply, Mt Stromlo was destroyed by Dubya's psychological problems?
Or did I miss something?
As of 9pm Australian EST
The official tally is:
4 People dead
247 homes destroyed (NOT 400!)
many more are thought to be destroyed but official tally is 247...
ninemsn has this story on the fires
shame on all of you who make jokes about australians dying
Here: http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single .cgi?2003019/crefl1_143.A2003019000000-20030190004 59.2km.jpg
1 9/
: //www.mthotham.com.au/today/cams_4.htmw .hotham.net.au/index_flash.html
;-)
Off this site: http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/20030
Different resolutions available.
There are also fire burning around:
Mt Hotham (hours delay) : http://www.mthotham.com.au/today/cams_5.htm
http
http://ww
Fires also at Mt Beauty valley, I'm about 70km away and the smoke is very thick, smells nice though! The moon was blood red some nights ago, but the smoke it too thick to see it now, also missed the sunset due to smoke.
This is what happens when we encroach into the bush. We get the gum trees and wildlife, but also bush fires. If we can't handle the heat etc.
When disasters like this happen there has been a break about the lore of the habitat. Did the aborigines even live there? Just like North America with its Santa Ana wind, twisters and river floods ever battering homo sapiens sapiens technicus.
Not the same fucking day. Four people so far killed in the fires. It's not funny. Make jokes about your own dead.
Grow up.
NOOOOO!!!!! i love their cheese, now cheese prices will go up...wait, sorry misread the town....
Yes, actually, the same fucking day. Remember the ebay auctions that went up for the twin towers after they collapsed? "some assembly required". people deal with tragedy in different ways. sometimes the best you can muster, the only thing that makes sense of it all, is a joke.
This may sound like a silly question... but why don't you just pave more of the ground outside of cities and build newer buildings with more brick?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
My high-school chem teacher once told us a story about a field trip gone wrong to an observatory (I forgot where it was too). He said the observatory had recently installed a six foot wide lense that took 2 year to make and ground by hand. One of the students on the trip had also recently been engaged, however she wasn't sure the ring was real (after all, they're high-school students without much money). After most of the group had left that particular room, she made a 14 inch long gash down the side of the lense to see if her diamond was real. It sounds like something of urban legend, but our teacher assured us it was true.
/There are 10 types of people in this world; those who steal sigs and those don't
We get a very similar weather condition here that tends to cause very high winds, very low humidity, high temperatures, lighting strikes, and arson. Our thoughts go out to those who have lost their homes and jobs because of these fires.
of the site ( tried to click on wayback machine's link to their photos).
hmm also looks like they are getting the usual slashdotting..
The point is that this is not your tragedy. Making fun of your own dead is insensitive, making fun of another's is deeply wounding and insulting. If you don't get that, laugh on.
As terrible and horrific as it's been, I really can't stand that people are labelling it the "worst ever". Not being from the eastern side of Australia probably has something to do with the way I feel about this (yes, people west of Qld, NSW and Vic feel like they're in a different, neglected country), but it seems that people are forgetting that *the* worst fires *ever* were Ash Wednesday in SA and Vic on February 16, 1983:
L AG/ASHWED83/AW83.HTM
m e/Transcripts/s678221.htm / FAAF080E6756F7904A25679300155B2B?OpenDocument e nts/nature/1983_ash%20wednesday%20bushfires.htm
2545 Buildings destroyed
75 People died
>390,000 Hectares burnt
source: http://sres.anu.edu.au/associated/fire/IUFRO/CONF
Don't get me wrong, the current predicament is terrible and serious, but please don't forget history or act like NSW is the only state that matters.
These are also some pages descibing that day:
http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/dimensions_in_ti
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~gscfa/ash.htm
http://www.nre.vic.gov.au/4A25676D0022F2EE/BCView
http://www.historysmiths.com.au/CentFedPlayKit/ev
Google will help you find more.
Bushfire? The evil fiend! He steals milk from the mouths of welfare babies, bombs innocent women and children in third-world nations, and jacks up the price of oil so that entire nations live in poverty. Now he is destroying our tools of science! Can this monster ever be stopped?
I grew up in the SF Bay Area. A number of years ago due to very dry conditions and the eucalyptus groves that were put in for aesthetics/wind control, there was a huge raging fire-storm that destroyed about half of the Oakland hills neighborhoods. Turned out eucalyptus are the absolute worst thing to plant in an urban area like that. The area was kinda weird to drive through even a few years ago, the neighborhoods are only recently blending back into the surrounding areas (trees are maturing a bit, houses have rebuilt). A few of my friends in college had lost their houses in it. Scary stuff. Hope this all gets put out quickly.
skeedlee
"Thanks, you Americans are so sensitive. The whole world has to mourn for your disasters, but when people get killed in other countries it's just an opportunuity to make dumb jokes."
I was talking strictly about the website, my post was very clear on that.
But since the topic has been raised, I'll dish a little back out.
"You non-Americns are so sensitive. The whole world is in serious danger after 9-11, lots of people got killed, but you think that is your opportunity to say 'you deserved it'."
So fuck off. I wasn't making a joke about people dying. I wasn't even making a joke about the fires. I was making a joke about the webserver going down. If you want to turn it into a gruesome comment, then you're no better than you're picturing me to be.
Oh, one more thing.
h ol d=1&commentsort=0&tid=134&mode=nested&cid=5112 056
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=51212&thres
I asked about the people that died after I made that post. I didn't even know if people were dead or not. So thanks for putting the worst possible spin on my obviously light-hearted comment. Couldn't be civil and ask me to clarify, could you?
"Thanks, you Americans are so sensitive. The whole world has to mourn for your disasters, but when people get killed in other countries it's just an opportunuity to make dumb jokes."
Oops. I feel like a shithead.
I clicked the 'parent' link on your post and realized it wasn't my post you were referring to.
I apologize, the mistake is mine. I just got upset at the thought that people thought I was making light of a situation like that.
Sorry for the heated words, man.
That you are safe and sound. What a great story.
..glad to hear of some self dependence there instead of this vague "why won't somebody do something?" noise you hear too often. Now what you guys need is someone with a clue to get a crawler in there and cut firebreaks. There's a lot "civilians" can do rather than wait for bigbrother to do it for you.
Best of luck to you and yours! I know forest and brush fires are terrible, I used to fight them when I was much younger, as a volunteer. Chainsaws, tractors, bulldozers are all your friends. And sprinker systems installed on the roofs are nice, tapped from a swimming pool and the water pump run by a generator. Keep the walls and roofs wet, you won't lose your structure. Well, lower the odds tremendously. Take this experience as a lesson, and improve your neighborhood so the next time it happens (sounds like it will from the descriptions I'm reading of the terrain)there's no way the fire can reach the homes. "Insurance" is a LOT more than a piece of paper in the file cabinet, real insurance starts with pro-active preparedness measures taken in advance of any sort of emergency.
Bushfires Destroy Historic Mt. Stromlo Observatory
...then I found out it was just a regular ol' fire..
For a second I thought this was a political satire
Okay, since this is slashdot, I'll start with CEI Blasts Open Source Software. Just to put it in local context. .In fact, it is an ideologically-driven, well-funded front for corporations opposed to safety and environmental regulations that affect the way they do business."
Also, you are right, I was wrong and I should have done the research. I ASSUMED that, as usual, a right-wing group was putting forward a PR flack and, as always true with assuming more then once, I made an ass of me and only me. Nonetheless, instead they front with a geologist (hmmm, that's relevant-NOT!) who then calls such a background one in "the natural sciences". Yeah, sure, pull the other one.
But, as for CEI and how they are funded (were they "bribed"?), let's move on to this, which shows that since 1985 the CEI has been funded almost entirely by large polluting corporations and folks like Scaife, Olin, and McKenna on the very hard right. These are the folks that people like Gingrich had to ask to moderate their public statements because they were too hard-line right wing for *him*.
Now, as for funding, CEI has gotten funding from (among others):
* Amoco Foundation, Inc.
* Coca-Cola Company
* CSX Corporation
* Ford Motor Company Fund
* Philip Morris Companies, Inc.
* Pfizer Inc.
* Precision Valve Corporation
* Sarah Scaife Foundation
* Texaco, Inc.
* Texaco Foundation * American Petroleum Institute
* ARCO Foundation
* Burlington Northern Railroad Co.
* Cigna Corporation
* Detroit Farming Inc.
* Dow Chemical
* EBCO Corp.
* General Motors
Now, I could write this all up for you, but I believe that this report does just fine, starting out with "CEI calls itself 'a non-profit, non-partisan research and advocacy institute dedicated to the principles of free enterprise and limited government.' . .
As I said, industry flacks.
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
If CEI as a rule made true statements, and those statements as a rule furthered the interests of the companies you cite, it would make sense for those companies to sponsor CEI. The sponsorship is not evidence that Smith is wrong. You have not shown that he was paid to lie, merely that he was paid. You have not refuted Smith's claims. You seem to believe in polylogism and think that to refute a claim, one need merely point to a person's affiliation, which is presumably arbitrarily chosen. Your position is irrational to the core.
My very good friend Dr. Ralph Sutherland of the Australian National University has his base of ops at Mt. Stromolo. Today he'll be utterly devastated, as will all those who worked there.
Using the holy grail of OSes...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/19/10429112 70928.html
I heard this on the news lastnight. I was absolutely devestated. I know many of the PhD students - we have 2 visiting this insitution currently - I rang up one of them yesterday, but all her family is safe.
/big/ these days), but the students do most of their PhD's on this set of telescope, almost exclusively. We also lost one instrument that had just about been finished and was soon being send off to the Gemini telescopes. Another one that they were meant to be building will have to have other plans - the workshop is destroyed. A lot of the astonomers lost their houses, but so far, every life has been accounted for, and the main university site is still safe... for the time being.
a l/index.cgi?030119.001042611975
There have been emails flying around all the astronoical lists - my supervisor did his PhD thesis there. All the telescopes have gone. The computers destroyed - some (most? All?) tapes were stored offsite as soon as they realised there was a fire coming (why they don't store them offsite as part of normal backup routines escape me). The biggest loss will be for the students - the telescope is not at a dark sky site (Canberra is
I wrote my journal entry lastnight - I'm afraid it might be a bit emotional. But I will keep updaeing it as I find things out - http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/journ
I'll be there in 2 weeks, as part of a cosmology school. We were meant to be taking a tour of the site. Oh shit, I don't know whether I want to go there anymore.
I am really worried about MOST telescope that the university of Sydney runs. A bit north of Canberra, but I think it is out of the way of fires. The grass around there will go up in seconds though - I hear the fire in these situations travels at up to 60 km/h. All the telescopes in Australia are somewhat unsafe from fires - the Siding Springs Observatory is in the middle of bushland, and there is no fire-break up there (I think there was one for Mt Stromlo). The fires in 1998 came too close for my liking...
I'm curious, did you *read* my first post or just scan for keywords?
What I said was that when the sorts of organizations he recommends go in and do the sorts of "brush clearing" they recommend, they are reliably LYING and consistently get caught using it as an excuse to cut new access roads, strip out salable lumber, and generally *ahem* lay the groundwork for future, even more destructive activities.
Here's a sample of what *my* two minute Google search turned up on the topic.
The comments about CEI's funding (which *you* called "bribes" and, when I proved to be right, chose to pretend you had never cared about) were a side point.
And, as I said, I am starting from having gone over the subject more then once with actual environmental scientists including, if you really want to get snitty with me, my own father who has an actual doctorate in biology (UC Berkeley, postdoc w/ the Smithsonian) as well as years of field experience as an environmental scientist and credentials as a former California state regulator. And oh, by the way, particular expertise in destructive implications of clearing of forest areas and loss of biodiversity (though his later work was in Hawai'i with the mangroves). Actually I could do a "My Cousin Vinnie" here and bring in all of my uncles and other family members in the field as well as my friends who've done such work and my own work with things like plant viability in hostile environments, but , after all, you evidently know how to do a Google search so I'll leave that as an excercise for the (evidently none-too-swift) student.
In other words, real world experience has shown that clearing understory is a mixed blessing at best and that it has been used as a stalking horse for getting lumbering companies access to wilderness. Access that they then abuse and try to cover up.
I've checked the issue out and have been following the subject for years. I'm curious, how much did YOU know about it before you dropped in your misleading little reference?
That's all you're getting from me and this will be my last post in this thread.
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
well, actually, an 83 year old woman did die at the observatory ...
I read your post. You said a number of things. Your pretending that I somehow missed what you said because I pointed out why some of your claims were fuckwitted, but not others, is disingenuous. Your argument against allowing companies to lumber as a way of forest management rests on the evading the fact that breach of contract is a punishable offense in every civilized society. Companies which cut more than they're allowed to can be prosecuted. Your argument amounts to saying "you shouldn't buy from Amazon because they might ship a bomb instead of book to you."
How many? Fuck, I rememebr seeing it live (as most of the world did) and was shocked. Even those who made jokes about it, did it with that 'trying to cope' look in their eyes.
Side point, how many Australians died in Sep 11?
Thought of the day: Think before bitching.
Robert Anton Wilson
The link to the Age is to a page full of links to news stories. The ABC link, OTOH, has some relevant links, but it's the ABC's main news page, not specific to the fires in itself. Between the pair, you should get most of the current stories.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
1.) This post adds nothing intelligent to the debate and is highly insulting to myself and I'm sure many other Canberra residents who have read it. People such as this do not deserve to be modded up for their arrogance and bigotry. /. modders, have some fucking sense.
2.) I might remind you, Good Jim, that September 11 involved attacks on America that were largely in response (justified/non-justified depends on your point of view) to American foreign policy. Terrorists did not start the Canberran bushfires which have wasted massive sections of suburbia and left thousands homeless. I myself spent Saturday fighting to save a number of houses behind the suburb of Kambah after I couldn't reach my own house - my way was blocked by a firestorm which forced me to turn back. Luckily my house was not damaged, but power was only restored at 3am last night. My entire city now faces intense water restrictions and pollution hazards from damage to a critical water treatment plant and various water reseviors.
3.) It's arrogant attitudes like yours that churn people up so much that they want to fly planes into American landmarks. I feel fucking stupid for getting led into this troll response, but it's the modding +1 that I saw that has really pissed me off. Come on
is here
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
You poor bastard.
Much of the area around Mount Stromlo was used for equestrian (horse) activities. A number of horses died horribly in their stables/yards, but this doesn't make the news. Unlike the Prime Minister - lots of hugging the victims and smiling for the media. Sickening.
Very subdued in the office here in Canberra today, many people seem to know someone who lost their home.
I remember visiting the Oddie late at night, it was a popular night bush walk for thise inclined to take beers, herbs etc and marvel at the interface between man and nature.
All hail Big Science.
And now its gone. Very sad.
When Osama and his psycho lackeys are done setting up his "super-muslim' state to the north and across the water from your goregeous beaches, you're going to need us smart-assed yanks to reverse the situation.
I survived the WTC. I almost lost my life. I'll joke about whatever the fuck I please.
"Make jokes about your own dead"
Ok this is a fair request.
So four dead people from the WTC and four dead people from that observatory in Australia meet just outside the pearly gates and are waiting in line to talk to St. peter.
So the guys from the WTC and Australia start arguing about their disasters and such.
The guy from the WTC says "Well, at least we were famous because it was the event of the century...it shocked the world".
The guy from austalia said "But you don't understand, this was in australia, in an observatory, and even the dormatories... oh shit, you're right. nobody *does* give a rat's ass about it".
Ha ha ha ah ah. Get it. Funny, right? Frickin' hillarious. And I made jokes about everybody's dead.
Laugh-a-minute, I'm telling you.
People die every day. Someday you will die. I will die. Its not like these people were going to live forever except that the australias forgot how to put out a forest fire.
I'm not insensitive, but on the 11 o'clock news, I'm sure I'll read about a family of 4 that died in a weekend car accident.
I'm not insensitive, but the tragendy doesn't affect me particularly, so its hard to feel a sense of loss.
That said, I'm deeply sorry 4 people died in australia. I'm equally sorry that 10's of millions in Africa are dying of AIDS at this moment. Help my moral compass get a magnitude reading here because I'm truly at a loss knowing how to react in either circumstance.
Hope you understand.
But really, work on "fire codes" and "fire departments" in the future. It will help.
And your lot just don't seem to understand why the rest of the world wants to put a burning bag of dog excrement at your collective front doors. Ooh please Mista America come and save our butts. The only armed forces capable of causing any problems to Australia in the pacific are strangely enough the US and China. Mmmm big muslim threat here you fool.
You're only showing weakness. Ask instead why people hung around the observatory to die instead of getting out while they had the chance.
I hope our government investigates that.
But no, they'll sweep that under the rug like they do everything else that might embarass them.
They'll probably blame some koala bear playing with matches.
" And your lot just don't seem to understand why the rest of the world wants to put a burning bag of dog excrement at your collective front doors. "
We don't think about it because we don't care. The taliban is gone. Iraq is next. And if North Korea does roll over and be our bitch, we'll turn the whole fucking korean peninsula into a fucking ball of smoking glass.
And the whole time, in the US, we'll be watching the superbowl, sitting around selling you cigarettes.
Do you want to know what a rush that is? That your country is our bitch and we don't even care?
Man, its f'ing great.
Now... you... grease up, roll over, and bark like a dog.
The chinese see you as weak and worthless. The Americans just don't freaking care.
Meanwhile, you're running around wringing your hands saying "oh you bad bad americans. your so bad! I hope osama doesn't bomb our sorry asses again. I'll get really mad next time".
You just don't understand, do you, Rover?
Here is a link to the Australian Bureau of Meteorology's real time weather radar site. The radar image is updated every 10 minues and is designed to show rain, but I have noticed that you can see dense smoke on it too. Keep your eyes on Canberra (and perhaps Sydney) for the next day or two, I think you will nee a lot more fires spreading as the hot weather continues.
Have a look here.t hreadid =49120
http://www.ozforums.com/showthread.php?s=&
These pictures were taken at 3pm from a friend of mine's place.
Sorry. For some reason a space was put into the link. http://www.ozforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid =49120
...I think I remember hearing that many different nationalities lost members on 9/11. However, I must agree that us Aussies are showing some very large lack of tact. Issues close to home always seem bigger than those abroad, but that doesn't mean they are bigger or more impactive.
Personally, fire is an issue in Australia, we all know it and we all live with it. Yes people lose their lives, and yes enormous amounts of property is destroyed, but it is a natural and expected event. 9/11 was a totally different kettle of fish, and should be treated so.
The $5M spectrograph that was being built there (to go on the Gemini North Telescope in Hawaii) was destroyed as well. This is a major loss for the Astronomical community. Very sad.
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
True ... and depends ...
I'd call Arson on this level Terrorism.
Robert Anton Wilson
Most people were deeply shocked, and not only because Australians were also killed in the WTC collapse.
Deeply enough shocked that Australia contributed elite troops to the forces in Afghanistan. The unit received a US bravery award for not withdrawing under heavy fire, but staying to direct air assults on Taliban forces attacking US infantry.
Deeply enough shocked that the Australian construction firm that cleared the WTC site bore significant ex-contract costs to do the job quickly and sensitively.
According to this Spacedail article the databases of astronomical research have been salvaged, the team will keep building their instruments, probably on the main ANU campus and Stromlo will be rebuilt (though I'm guessing minus the telescopes).
I've written down some of my own memories of Mt Stromlo observatory.
What is the inverse of the Matrix?
The Observatory:
, 00.jpg
e data/0,1658,231155,00.jpg
http://news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,3600,231203
Here's a fascinating aerial photo:
http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/common/imag
(All those burnt-out houses, and all those unburnt trees. WTF? It's as if the houses themselves were more flammable than the trees that surrounded them.)
As a Sydneysider, my thoughts go out to those in Canberra. The fires weren't far away from Sydney last month.
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
- Live with it.
- Leave it.
I have to give the emergency services folks in Caberra credit. It sounds like they have worked out a way to get most of the people out of harm's way. Property can be rebuilt, and historical buildings are destroyed all the time. (That's what makes the surviving ones so special after all.) But people cannot be.Technology can't prevent fires, or floods. It has done a pretty good job mitigating the damage of Earthquakes, and to a lesser extent hurricanes. But look carefully at the specs and you will see that all technology has a point beyond which it will break. After this point more "technology" will only delay the damage, not prevent it.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
And I think some of the people missing in the cities may turn up dead.....
I aggree that its too soon to make jokes about it while the fires are still raging. But are people from Perth or Darwin any more entiteled to make jokes about it than Americans or Europeans are?
Wow...
This is really devistating. I was just at the Mt. Stromlo Observatory 1 week ago as part of the National Youth Science Forum in Australia.
I guess I was one of the very last people to see the 'scopes in action. Crazy how stuff like this happens...
Theres a really long line in front of the pearly gates because of the AIDS pandemic, Nigerian troubles etc., so there is a bit of a wait to get in.
Along come the victims from the bushfires and join the line. There, they bump into some people from the WTC attacks, who are having a second go at comming in after St. Peter had told them to change their attitude. Although people of many nationalities died in the WTC attacks, these people are for some reason all Americans.
So the Australians tells the crowd about the bushfires.
"Oh! How horrible!" says one of the the WTC victims, and starts cying. The Australians are a little puzzled by this amount of reaction from the Americans, who are now crying and gnashing their teeth.
One of the Australians wonders if the Americans are emotional because they share the grief and remember their own deaths, another Australian thinks this is some kind of sarcasm from the Americans side and gets angry. "Right! We didnt laugh at you when you died, and we understand that it was a big disaster," says one of the Australians, "but these fires were among the worst in Australian history! Stop it!"
"You dont understand," says one of the Americans, " were crying for all the wallabys, koalas, and kangaroos that died in the fire. In the WTC attacks, a couple of pets died, and some had to go starving for several days because their owner had died, but your story is so much worse than the WTC that Im ashamed at myself for feeling sorry for it."
"Oh!" Says the Australian.
"Were PeTA members. You see, we werent let into heaven on the first try because we tried to get St. Peter to take the our pets into Heaven instead of some animal abusers."
Suddenly the Australians realise that one of the crying people isnt American. Hes an African child soldier: "But I have been a soldier all my life and never had a proper house, so Im crying for all the student houses and workshops."
I know we shouldnt discuss moderation, but "Offtopic"?. The parent was re.
1: casualty figures
2: shouldnt make fun of Australians dying.
A matter of "so little time, so many moderation points to give"?
I am a police officer and was involved in the evacuation of the Giralang fire (and was kept very busy every where else over the next few days, day off today but expect to be called in).
The Giralang fire WAS NOT caused by spoting. Giralang is many k's from the fire front and that area was free from spotting. What I understand was the cause was an arcing powerline. This may well have been caused by the power surges caused by the fires but it was not a spot.
As far as I know neither was the grass fires around Mitchell (to the north east). And although the devestation this year was not due to arsonists, during the day we still had several calls to schools where some brat was trying to light fires. luckly none of them caught.
And for good info on Canberra (in the Australian Capital Territoy, ACT) and the current events have a look at a Slashdot inspired site, the-riotact.com
Nik_the_Pig
Sky & Telescope has covered the sad news at: http://skyandtelescope.com/news/current/article_84 8_1.asp