Slashdot Mirror
Maine School & Linux
Feztaa writes "This story talks about a private school in Maine that has introduced linux into their computer labs, with smashing success. Apparently, they spent less than half of the money that other schools spent on new computer labs, and got better hardware to boot."
Most middle school and high school "computer labs" seem to be oriented around the business department vocational education model. That is, they teach people how to keyboard quickly, use office productivity apps, maybe even edit a web page or develop a PowerPoint presentation.
Using Linux in the computer lab is closer IMHO to a real computer science lab like at the university level, where one learns how computers work.
It all depends on your intent. If the intent is to teach business apps, Windows is the right choice because that's what businesses use. But Linux offers a richer environment for understanding computer principles.
"Having purchased 20 new, identical computers, it made sense to completely configure one machine and then clone the hard drive to the other 19 computers. However, Microsoft's EULA prevents a user from doing this, even if they have 20 copies of Windows."
Surely this isn't correct... is it?
Not even MS would do this - it makes no sense.
I am sure you need a lot of experience to learn how to click on icons and press ctrl-alt-del whenever some app crashes.
And kills the whole lab
FRA: STFU GTFO
Although I wish this would happen in more *public schools*.
Instead of going with decent free software, it seems like the majority of public schools are so Windows-dependent that they'd rather keep Windows 95 until the end of time than switch. And that's just dumb. Sure, if the school system has enough to keep upgrading, it might be a little easier... but they never do.
The primary reason usually lies somewhere along the lines of 'but we have this database and our database guy doesn't know how to do anything but Access!' Sigh.
Windows has its merits. Continuing to use it when the only merits left are 'we're lazy and our tech people are ignorant'... that's not good.
I'd like to see these schools get adequate support. I know that a few Linux distros are supported by their teams, but what happens in a core dump? What will Mrs. Teacher do when she drops back to a command line? What commands does she throw?
Without proper training, this is bound to fail. I know all of the public schools in the state of Maine have iBooks for their 7th and 8th graders. It's been given quite a bit of praise under that program. While I'd LOVE to see Linux make it here, I don't think that it's ready yet.
My $0.02
Chris Giddings President, Ripple LLC
That was a pretty bold move considering his previous experience was very light on Linux. I found the bit about the common questions he was asked particularly interesting. I'm used to the assumptions about Windows and Linux that exist in an IT environment, but hadn't considered that education IT had it's own set of Linux/Windows shibboleths... ;-)
Hm... speaking of shibboleths, I wonder how many posts it will take before someone seriously handwrings about it being a "Christian" academy adopting Linux... ;-)
This seems to be a great market for Linux, especially with the downturn in the US economy. With software like the Linux Terminal Server Project the machines don't even have to have a disk in them. An old clunker with a fast network connection can easily serve the needs of a school computer lab.
Linux also makes a lot of sense from a durability standpoint in primary/secondary education lab situations. The machines can be administered remotely, and can easily be kept in a consitent state. Administration becomes a breeze, keeping the Linux machines up and running can be a pretty much automated process. Try and do that with a Windows lab!
The only problem I see with using Linux in these situations is finding trained personell to staff the labs. Good Linux people are still hard to find, especially with the lower-than-typical pay scale in primary/secondary education. I suppose this will change little by little as more users adopt Linux both in education and enterprise applications.
In 15-20 years time, Tech Support at companies is going to be SOOOO much easier.
Currently, there are old farts that work at our place that take about 20 minutes to position the mouse cursor over the appropriate widget, and another 4 minutes to pluck up the courage to actually click on it.
Last weekend I watched my 4 year old nephew as he fired up a PC, quickly and confidently navigated the START menu to his games folder, loaded a football game, and equally quickly and confidently maximimsed the window etc. What made it more interesting was that I then showed him Microsoft Paint. This was the first time he'd seen the program - but he immediately went for the Maximise button to make the application fill the screen.
This means that he'd learnt the concept of the Maximise button - i.e. his understanding was deeper than simply pressing it as part of the start-up procedure of playing his football game.
I guess I may just be underestimating the abilities of 4 year olds, but I tell you, when this generation leave school and get jobs tech support will be a thing of the past...
An OS like Linux is far better for teaching about the guts of software because everything is exposed. And I'm not just talking about "the source". On a Linux box, you can go look at things like startup scripts and installed drivers, while on Windows, such things are (mostly) hidden.
Windows does its damndest to prevent users from accidently encountering any confusing internals. Good, I suppose, for someone who doesn't care, but lousy if you are trying to teach those internals.
The cake is a pie
Well, I would guess that if they wanted to learn windows, they would learn more with a home computer. You are not going to be able to pass the MSCE, with what you learn in a H.S. computer lab. (close though ;-) Cisco, OTOH has a Cisco Academy program where students can get their CCNA certification in H.S. and get useful experience. Not to mention that Cisco actually has a cert that means something (CCIE). When Microsoft has a cert like the CCIE, then they will have a cert worth attaining.
If you're teaching a student how to use a spreadsheet, it really doesn't make a difference whether they learn gnumeric or excel. The _principles_ are what you want to teach, not the specific application.
The same thing with word processors. It should take more than 15 minutes for the average highschooler to adjust from Word to WordPerfect to Abiword. It's not like they're learning how to automatically generate table of contents or advanced table formatting; they're kids who are learning computers so they can write term papers...
Especially since school computers don't get updated as frequently, it makes sense to use free software. What's the difference:
I assert that both of them will equally prepare the average kid for the 'real' business world (Word 2002 on Windows XP).
My father is a blogger.
Mirror:
:)
Moving the school computer lab to Linux was not an easy decision to make--but it was a beneficial one.
As the bell rings to begin class at Greater Houlton Christian Academy, enthusiastic students sit down at their shiny, new computer workstations. In one corner, the red cabinet housing the server hums quietly as two stuffed penguins look on fondly from their perch. Other penguins keep watch from different locations as the students enter their user names and passwords to access their accounts. Ask a student who ``Tux'' is, and he or she will point to the large penguin painted on the front wall of the computer lab and say, ``He's the Linux penguin!'' About this time KDE has loaded, and young boys and girls are opening the application they need for class as easily as kicking a ball.
Now for a little history. Greater Houlton Christian Academy (GHCA) is a private school and nonprofit organization in Maine. As such, it does not have the same access to funding as the public school system. As the computer science teacher and system administrator, this means I have to be creative about providing our students with computer technology while working with a tight budget. In the past I relied on area businesses and generous individuals to donate their used computers. While these donations were a great blessing to us, they were a temporary solution at best.
Last year it became quite evident that we would need to replace our old, secondhand computers running Windows 95. The decision to move from donated computers to new computers was based on many factors, though our primary goal was to make sure our students had the best technology available for the enhancement of their educational experience. Therefore, this would be a software upgrade as well as a hardware upgrade. In fact, choosing the software was by far the bigger challenge.
Interestingly enough, it was during this time that many schools in the western US were being audited by Microsoft concerning the school's use of Windows and Office software. I began to realize my ignorance concerning exactly how strict and inflexible the Microsoft EULA is. It was also during this time that Microsoft's new licensing initiative, called Software Assurance, was causing quite a stir in the tech headlines. As my research opened my eyes to the various limitations to proprietary software, I began to think that the answer for us might be found in open-source software.
The decision to switch to an open-source platform for our new computer lab was not an easy one. My experience was with DOS and various versions of Windows and not with UNIX-compatible operating systems. I had experimented with Linux a few years earlier but found it somewhat difficult and incomplete. Because some time had passed, I decided to give Linux another try. Going with Mandrake's 8.0 distribution, I installed Linux at home to see if it could replace Windows in a desktop environment. To my amazement, I found Linux to be much more capable this time around. I was one step closer to making my decision to switch our computer lab to the Linux OS.
Other factors went into the final decision to go with open-source software, not the least of which was cost. By purchasing bare-bones computer ``kits'', we were able to save considerable money on the hardware. Part of the savings in purchasing a bare-bones system is that the computer does not come with an operating system. We knew by then we would have to spend more money on software than we did on hardware if we went with Microsoft. Not only would I need to consider the initial purchase of the operating system and application software, but I would also need to factor in the costs of upgrading our software every couple of years. Needless to say, going with an open-source platform would save us considerable money now and in the future.
Another key issue was flexibility. As many of you know, it takes time to install an operating system, customize it for the particular hardware it runs on and install the desired applications. Having purchased 20 new, identical computers, it made sense to completely configure one machine and then clone the hard drive to the other 19 computers. However, Microsoft's EULA prevents a user from doing this, even if they have 20 copies of Windows. Not only would Linux save me considerable time by allowing me to clone my configured PC, it also gave me great flexibility in the degree to which I could customize the OS for the hardware. By recompiling the kernel to take advantage of our specific hardware, I could fine-tune the OS to run at peak performance. Linux would even save us money in the cloning process, thanks to the dd command.
A few aspects, however, made the decision to switch to Linux a difficult one. The smaller software base to choose from and the lack of mature drivers for our hardware were among the lesser obstacles. The major obstacle was my own lack of experience with the Linux OS. In fact, most of the money and time spent in the software upgrade of our computer lab was for a shelf full of books I had to purchase and read to really feel confident using and teaching Linux. It isn't always easy to teach an old dog new tricks, but I found the experience one of the most challenging and rewarding experiences of my IT career.
Today our private school of over 170 students has one of the finest computer labs in Maine. We have 20 computers with Athlon 1600+ XP processors, 128MB of RAM, 20GB hard drives and all the accessories--3-D graphics, sound, 17" monitors and 100Mbps Ethernet networking. Our computers run Mandrake Linux 8.2 with KDE 3.0.2. What is most amazing is we upgraded our computer lab for under half the cost of what many neighboring schools paid for inferior equipment. Most of this savings was the result of switching to Linux.
Our servers also run Linux. Using NFS, students can access their accounts from any computer in the lab. Student- and staff-owned files are backed up on a daily basis, so gone are the days of ``the computer lost my homework.'' Our proxy server runs Squid to help speed our wireless internet connection to 20 workstations, and we use proxy software along with iptables to provide firewall protection. A nice program called Dansguardian provides filtering to protect our children from pornography and other inappropriate content.
Many of you may be asking at this point, ``How do you use Linux in teaching your students?'' GHCA is a K-12 school, and so we strive to offer some level of computer training for each grade. Kindergarten students, for example, can use such programs as Potato Guy to practice hand-eye coordination and familiarize themselves with how to use a mouse to manipulate objects on the computer screen. Elementary and secondary teachers integrate the computer lab into their curriculum by using the computer for research, multimedia enhancements or even something simple as coloring digital pictures.
Starting with grade seven, education in computer science takes a more formal approach. Seventh graders are taught keyboarding skills using programs such as KTouch and TuxTyping. Grade-eight students are taught the basics of programming with the kate editor and yabasic interpreter. It is during this class that students gain a better understanding of how computers process instructions.
Computer Fundamentals is a one-credit course that introduces the ninth-grade student to ``how a computer works'' and ``how to work a computer''. During the second semester, students learn about the purpose and use of the operating system and various applications, such as word processors, spreadsheets and web browsers. Because our computers run Linux, it is the Linux OS and open-source software that students learn in this class. Being sensitive to the fact that Microsoft currently dominates the PC market in corporate America, I do spend time discussing the similarities and differences between Linux and Windows.
Tenth- through twelfth-grade students can chose from a variety of computer electives, including how to upgrade and repair computers, web site design, advanced programming and even an upcoming course in robotics. In making the switch to Linux, I easily found all the tools needed to teach these courses using open-source software. In many cases, the open-source software we now use is superior to the proprietary software originally donated to us.
This is our first year with our new computer lab, and I am very pleased with how it is progressing. One of the most pleasing experiences I am having as a system administrator of a Linux-based lab is the actual ease of administration. Once I set something up in Linux, I rarely need to worry about it again. This was not the case with Windows. Last year we were constantly suffering from system crashes, frozen servers, strange bugs and the infamous ``blue screen of death''. Needless to say, it was a frustrating situation for many students. While Linux is not bug-free, it has been a far more stable operating system for both our workstations and servers. Linux also has shown itself to be a much more versatile operating system to administer in a network environment. My job is more pleasurable thanks to our switch to Linux.
As a teacher of computer science, I am finding this year a fascinating test for Linux. Very few of our students, parents or teachers knew what Linux was before this year. I have actually found this to be a great advantage in teaching computers. In the past, I have found students to be disinterested in learning about the personal computer running Windows, because it is something most of them grew up with at home. This lack of interest made it more difficult to teach the more-advanced aspects of the operating system. However, Linux is something completely new, different and unexplored. Instead of being intimidated by the change, as many adults might be, young people are excited to explore the ``uncharted territory''. This opens a door for me as a teacher, allowing me to educate eager minds in the more-advanced aspects of computer operating systems and software. In fact, it only took two weeks until students began to ask me, ``Where can I get Linux?''
People sometimes ask me, ``Is teaching our students Linux preparing them for the workplace?'' This question is based on the fact that Microsoft is the current dominating presence in operating systems and office software. It is a question I have thought over a long time, and the answer I always come up with is, ``Yes, most definitely.'' The basic principles of any type of operating system, office application or other similarly grouped software are the same. A student who becomes proficient in Linux will not find themselves lost in a Windows environment. I have found Linux to be the more advanced of the two operating systems, yet our students are very quickly and easily learning it. The process of copying a file or formatting a paragraph is not so different between one operating system and the other. The important thing is we are able to offer the latest in hardware and software tools to train our students in these fundamental principles--something we could not do if we went with proprietary software.
Another question that may be even more important to ask is, ``What is the future of Linux?'' When our students graduate a few years from now, will they enter a Microsoft-dominated workplace or will the tide have changed? Even in our small New England town of Houlton, Maine, businesses are beginning to look to Linux as an alternative to proprietary operating systems. These businesses will need qualified personnel familiar with the Linux operating system and open-source applications. Greater Houlton Christian Academy will be graduating young men and women who will be able to meet that need, a claim not many schools in our nation can currently make. In fact, some of our students may go on to write the future applications for Linux, giving back to the community that helped them during their school years.
For us, switching to open-source software running on the Linux operating system has been the right choice, allowing us to provide our students with modern equipment and software for a fraction of the cost of a computer lab running proprietary software. If Linux continues to grow in popularity and gain a foothold in the workplace, we will look back at our choice as one of the most important decisions we've ever made.
__________
The problem with using Linux is that the children won't learn how to use Windows, which is what most people use, but they will probably have Windows at home anyways. Maybe they'll even try Linux at home!
Centralization breaks the internet.
After working in a public school district, the fear of Microsoft had certainly struck us. We had an entire room devoted to holding the "Welcome to Windows" manuals, licenses, and EULA's, and were hoping never to get that dreaded audit.
While we were unable to make the switch to Linux while I was working at the district (we had entered into contracts beta-testing new Windows-based attendance/grading software), it certainly struck me as the way to go.
In addition, the quality general computer instruction available at this school is something to strive for. I think that students are quite capable of utilizing Linux efficiently, especially if they are familiarized with it early on.
Yeah, the concepts are SO different. I mean, if someone learned to use the Maximize button on Linux, it would take weeks of retraining for them to figure out how to usethe Maximize button in Windows. And if they only knew OpenOffice, wow, they'd have to start all over again when using Word, because the "Bold" buttons work SO differently.
Puh-lease.
While reading the story, and looking at the photo which shows a bunch of fifth graders sitting behinds KDE workstations, with a huge Tux poster in the background, I had another idea how our government can save money.
As we all know, nuclear tests have been banned for quite some time now. And government research labs all over the fruited plain spend enormous amounts of money on supercomputers that simulate nuclear explosions.
Well, it should be much cheaper just to set up a bunch of cheap earthquake monitors in the northwest US; have someone print that picture from the story; mail it to Steve Ballmer's house; and carefully watch the monitors for the next couple of days.
Seriously, if that article ever makes its way over to Redmond HQ, it's not going to get a warm reception. Given what I've observed about Microsoft's mentality, just the photo itself is good enough for a few ulcers. Seriously speaking, this is not a cheap yuck. That small picture clearly shows the biggest threat to the monopoly that Microsoft has spent the last decade building up. Stuff like this has to be a pepto-bismol moment for the MS bigwigs that read it.
Thanks to the market many students have MS gear at home.
These kids will have linux experience.
Thanks to our former governor, many students have Macs.
While I'm not convinced the program was a good idea, I am very glad that they went with something non-MS.
Breadth of knowledge is important - the more exposure kids have to the differences between these systems the more likely it is that we will continue to see some diversity in operating systems. Moving between Aqua, X and Windows isn't much of a stretch, none of them will suffer in the market place for having exposure to these systems. Most will not delve into these machines any deeper then the UI. But they will know that there are choices.
Uh, No. Anyone who thinks the point of computers in school is to, teach kids how to use the currently popular software appications, is absolutely wrong. This attitude harkens back to the 80's when schools would use DOS computers, 'cause that's what kids would use in the "real world," not these toy Macs.
Now, we all know that a deep understanding of DOS is not of critical importance for 99%+ of those working in the "real world." Applicatios, OSes and even interface paradigms change. If you ask me, the use of computers in school should be geared towards in no particular order.
1) Becoming familiar and comfortable with how to use computers; not teaching kids how to hack the kernel, but more geared towards general computing concepts that will carry over from one platform to another, one appication to another, etc.
2) Using computers as tools to do research and write papers. By this, I don't mean making sure kids use computers to do stuff; but help kids identify when the computer is the most appropiate tool for a task. General research is done well on a computer, so it preparation for deep research, but at some point you have to go to the library to do serious work. Using a spreadsheet to keep track of expenses for a business class is a great idea, but only well after the principles are understood.
Computers are tools and should be treated as much. The best way to learn how to use a tool is by using it; guidance is nice, but I bet the kids who learn the most about computers are those who use them as an integrated part of study to get stuff done. Because THAT'S how there used in the real world.
Children should be taught the fundamental computer applications such as Ms Word, Visual Basic, Internet Explorer, Excel, ect... not the hacked together "gnu" versions featured in linux.
I apologize to other /. readers for troll-feeding, but this one was just too much to pass up...
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Oh, bah... when I was in grade school we had Apple II's. No hard disk, no OS to speak of, just 5.25" floppies. In short, nothing even remotely resembling the "fundamental computer applications" you speak of. Can I use a Windows machine now? Yup. Can the kids I grew up with? Yup. And you'd better believe that KDE, StarOffice, and Mozilla are a hell of a lot more like the apps found on a "normal computer" than anything I had back in the day.
Heck, to me the real crime is teaching kids nothing BUT Windows, by which I mean not really teaching them anything but to click A to make B happen, and to go into a panic if they can't find a button labelled "Start". People should be subjected to all sorts of different computer environments, otherwise how will they really know what they prefer? And since these kids will inevitably see windows later in life if they haven't already, school doesn't really need to spend much time on it.
Computers are all basically the same. The important thing is that when they're faced with Windows, or Linux, or MacOS, or *BSD, or whatever, that they're not immediately put off by it, because after all, a computer is a computer is a computer.
Stating linux skills and alternative applications is a good way to show that you can think for yourselves and at least for now makes you stand out.
Help fight continental drift.
I don't agree at all, but maybe I'm missing something ...
The basic functions of all of the programs you listed work similar enough in Linux that it won't make an iota of difference in 'preparation' for the 'real world' (back, forward buttons, reload buttons look and behave identically on IE and on Phoenix running on Linux, for example). VB I guess is the obvious exception, but I'm not sure how you can be so confident that VB won't be anything other than a historical footnote in 10 or 15 yrs. (or so morphed from what it is today) that again it doesn't matter -- this also applies to all applications btw.
I've seen people (Ma, and GF) just pick up AbiWord (never before been in anything other than a MS enviroment, mind you) and know how to change fonts, save and create a document, etc.
The difference will be in the minutiae of, let's say the exact layout of the options under 'Edit' -- which will change anyways as Windows and Windows applications evolve. I really don't think anything will be lost at all.
The advantage, IMHO, is that students with the interest/ability to dig deeper into what the computer is doing will be able to, unlike in a Windows enviroment where things are purposedly (and, again IMHO, unnecessarily) obscured, and the cash savings part of it are important too.
I say, hurrah for the school, someone there 'gets it' (IMHO!)
I'll start with Internet Explorer here. The main interaction w/ a web browser is via the adress bar, clicking on links, and some bookmarks. Obviously there is no chance that these poor kids will ever be able to surf the web w/ IE if they learn the basics using mozilla. (although there might be the chance that they don't WANT to use IE if they know mozilla)
On to MS Word. While it is true that there is some difference in word processing programs, the core operations and abstractions are the same on each. Ditto for Excel.
And i won't event talk about Visual Basic. I'll only say that while i oppose the death penalty, i still think that the person who came up with the idea to build some wierd object-oriented bastard BASIC should be shot. sorry. almost went on a rant here.
Free as in mason.
You're absolutely right. It's much better to teach our children how to use specific applications, rather than how to user computers in general. Are you fucking mad????
I've been to college (CS major), been around computers my ENTIRE life, and been deep in Unix for the past 7 years. (And I'm only 24.)
You know what I do with User Manuals? I throw them the fuck away, because I understand how computers work, and the thought process that developers are going through when they write software. Because of this understanding, I'm able to be proficient at new software within a matter of minutes, and an expert within a few days.
I think we are better off teaching our children the fundemental computer application TYPES. Fuck the specific apps. MS Word and Open Office are the same as far as 90% of users are concerned. They provide text formatting, spell check, and can print.
Instead of teaching Visual Basic, teach them programming concepts. Variables, loops, arrays, functions, data structures. Visual Basic is a syntax. You can take the same basic concepts and apply them to C, Java, Fortran, Shell scripting, etc.
Instead of Excel, teach them about SPREADSHEETS. How they work. Some cells contain data, some contain functions. What good are spreadsheets? When should we use them?
Don't teach Access. Teach database concepts. Tables, select statements, how joins work. How to think like a database optimizer to keep your statements from taking 9 years to complete.
Instead of Internet Explorer, teach them about the internet in general. What is it? How does it work? How to I make a website? How do you make dynamic websites? How do I find the information I'm looking for on the internet?
Computers are general machines. They are completely programmable, and to teach our children any specific application is a sure waste of time. Any application you teach them in 5th grade can easily be obsolete by the time they graduate highschool. Teach them the real fundamentals, and they'll have the knowldege to adapt to the industry as it changes.
And don't whine about having to relearn computers after school. Buttons are buttons, a cursor is a cursor, an icon is an icon, and a command line is a command line. The desktop paradigm hasn't changed since Xerox invented the fucking thing. When it happened, everyone relearned the interface. When it happens again, everyone will again relearn. (Including the "lucky" children that were taught the way you seem to prefer.) However, when the paradigm shifts, those with the true fundamental knowledge will adapt more quickly. The rest will be playing catch-up.
On a more personal note, I could give less of a fuck what the school system teaches when it comes to computers. I've had a computer my whole life, and so will my children, and you can bet your ass that they will know how things really work in the 5th grade, just as I did.
Cheers!
Similarly, teaching kids Linux in school will likely result in kids being able to efficiently use both Linux and Windows upon graduation, since they will use Linux in school, and will probably learn how to use Windows elsewhere since it is so pervasive (home, friends place, etc). Besides, even if they don't pick up Windows while in school the skills they have from Linux will make the learning curve short and easy when the time comes.
There is more to computers than the 'fundamental' applications such as MS Word, Excel, VB and IE. If you restrict your teaching to those topics then you are doing you children a disservice by refusing to teach them how a computer works. We're not training tomorrows secretaries here, we're training tomorrows computer scientists.
"Belief means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzche, The Anti-Christ, 1889]
No this is not correct. Even though some basn MS for anything people replied to it.
l t. asp?url=/technet/prodtechnol/windows2000pro/deploy /depopt/sysprep.asp
From 2000 to XP you can prepare a hard drive. Use a tool called SYSPREP which prepares a drive for cloning.
Once you clone the drive to x number of systems(as covered by your site licenses). The initial boot of the system conigures each one with a seperate SID. It also automates user responses. You can accept the EULA automatically.
MS reccomends this for roll outs and even teaches you how to do it on their site.
I have used this many times. Nothing against the EULA.
See below link.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/defau
I love Linux. And thing MS is evil in a lotta ways. But above all hate misinformation.
Puto.
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Funny you should bring this up.
This is the main problem I'm facing right now.
I am the technical guy on my kid's school board(8 people plus the principal).
This is a private k-8 school with about 300 students.
Linux completely makes sense for this school barring one thing. Educational software. Among other pieces they have Reader Rabbit(tm) and HyperStudio. Neither of which I have been able to emulate in Linux.
What we really need now is an organization to push the importance of having this software ported to Linux. As people start to realize that school's techonology budgets should go towards hardware instead of Microsoft licenses, Linux is becoming more and more important.
OpenOffice.org is perfect for an office suite, but these other eductional software pieces really need to be ported.
Many of these programs are DOS-based or even win32 + quicktime based(yuck). They are flashy noisy programs that younger kids really seem to like.
The use SDL would make a lot more sense as a foundation for educational software. Bill Kendrick's Tuxpaint is one example of a fun little program that is cross-platform using SDL.
If there's already an organization out there pushing Linux educational software, I haven't heard of it.
It doesn't have have to be free as in beer or speech, but It should be cross-platform from the get go.
There's a lot of "innovation" of this sort going on in Maine, especially in northern Maine. In some schools the shop class takes on construction and remodeling responsibilities for the school building. There's really no choice in the matter, because that area of the state is dirt poor.
Imagine how the school's board would have reacted if the instructor had chosen FreeBSD instead.
About 500 years ago, a guy named Martin Luther decided to translate the Bible into German, thus was born the Protestant revolution. The point being, that before this, if you were German and could not read Latin, you had to have a priest translate the words of God AKA the Bible.
A Brit named William Tyndale had the same idea, he printed 50 copies of the
Bible *in English*, the establishment was that shocked at this idea, they burnt
him at the stake. Probably because they thought the idea of the common people
having direct access to the 'holy writ' would lead to them thinking for
themselves and having dangerous ideas.
How like the current debate between open source and closed source this all
sounds. Just substitute operating system for Bible, money for God, the stock
market for the Holy Roman Empire and Bill Gates as the Pope and it all lines up
Oh, please.
"Business students"???????"
Yeah, all those twelve-year-olds leaving GHCA to join the job market will suffer greatly.
At worst, all that this will mean is an awkward year of adjustment when they first get to college, though even there, a solid knowledge of Linux will, in fact, give them other edges including better odds of getting junior IT work (such as helping out in the labs for work-study or managing some department's local server problems) during college. Hmmmm, other kids trying to get jobs as waiters, these kids already qualified for minor sysadmin work; sounds like a win-win to me.
I love how the Redmond-damaged always pull that one out when somebody suggests anything but Windoze. Especially in a case like this where the article points out that most of their students already use Win. at home. If you'ld read it you would know that.
So, I'm curious, 0x0d0a, should I put you down as sloppy, bigoted, or foolish?
Doggone brain washed, narrowminded, lazy-brained, sad-assed . . . .
-Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Windows does its damndest to prevent users from accidently encountering any confusing internals.
Except for when windows gives the blue screen of death. That's enough to scare the average user away.
This is yet another case of blatant overmoderation.
While I think he's wrong, it's a common point of view and the pilar or the "switch / lock-in" problem.
If the kids know linux and main GNU apps , those apps he mentions (bloated pieces of software) can be learnt in 10 minutes. At least, the important 10% we use 99% of the time.
Another thing you should think about is unstability in the IT world. When I was 15, Wordperfect was dominant (5.1 for MSDOS then 6.0 for windows 16bit) and some people still used wordstar. I learnt Ashton Tate's Framework 3 and dBase. Those were the standards by then. I had to relearn EVERYTHING because in some years windows took over and then win95 (completely different BTW). I spent hundreds of hours getting used to countless key combos - things are a lot easier now.
Doesn't matter what those kids learn, it will be outdated when they leave college for a job.
Indeed. No job would take me on, because I only had skill with Netscape, and they needed someone who knows how to use IE. It's really crippled my career options.
Most jobs don't need skill with Word or Excel either. Basic familiarity with how a spreadsheet and word processor work are more useful than having used Word a lot. I don't know about you, but when I learned to use a word processor. And when I was taught to use a spread sheet, I was told what it does, not just how to put little numbers into the boxes. Too many people were clearly not taught this, and think that a spreadsheet is just for presentations. They use a frickin calculator with it!
A Linux spreadsheet will probably be more use if this is the case.
I think the "everyone uses Widnows apps, so kids should learn to use Windows" is a silly bugaboo.
Many people seem stuck in this reasoning:
Why should everyone learn Windows? Because everyone uses Windows.
Why should everyone use Windows? Because everyone is learning Windows.
I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it is an easy mistake. (And I posted this from a Redhat 8.0 box.)
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Everyone is better off if everyone uses Linux over Windows, but if a single school gives students experience with Linux and the rest Windows, it's doing a worse job of helping its students.
Using Word is like operating a television set: anyone can do it. Not everyone is familiar with UNIX based operating systems. That gives them an edge. If they don't know how to make a borderless text box in Word, they can pick it up in a day. Applications are honestly dirt easy if you have a broad enough experience base. It is virtually impossible to avoid MS Office these days, and enough to put down on a resume is trivial. Being able to add Linux on a resume at least is interesting and at most shows competence.
Quite honestly, Putting MS Office on your resume is like putting "Can use Pencil."
If you have a choice between hiring Jonny, who knows Word (which your company uses) and Jimmy, who knows KWord (which you've never heard of)...well, you're going to grab the one that's going to generate less support costs.
And if Jimmy comes to you and says that he can save your organization tens of thousands of dollars per year by switching you to an OS and an Office Suite you have never heard of, you are going to like that initiative. Even if you are hesitant and don't follow through with it, you will see Jimmy as a managerial material, rather than another office drone.
In twenty years, it's very unlikely if people will be using something much like the current iteration of MS Word *or* Open Office. But there is a not insignificant short-term benefit, and I don't think it's entirely fair to the students to deprive them of that edge.
Sorry, it's pretty insignificant, compared to being able to offer a programming elective. These kids are growing up in a world where the average 5 year old is more familiar with a computer than the average current office worker. They can undo in their sleep. What you hold prescious and dear just isn't that impressive. There may have been some debate originally about whether to use rotary or numeric phones in diagrams for children, but the distinction was, quite honestly, a trivial one. The ability to use MS Office and Open Office is trivial, but using MS Office is unavoidable while having used Open Office is at least a little special. Picking up a windowed interface is unavoidable, but picking up a powerful command line is actually useful (even in a business setting, typing ftp somehost@somewhere.com is much easier than opening Internet Explorer, going to a download site, getting administrator priveledges...).
You're probably trolling too (as judging from your previous comments you don't seem to be experienced), but this is exactly the sort of argument that you hear from many computer-illiterate managers who are struggling to learn the "industry standard" interface. To the next generation, Office is a 4-th grade computer literacy level. We can do better.
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
My girlfriend (yes ... even 40 year old L/Unix admins have real girlfriends) works as an admin assistant for the maintenance department of a local high school They use Windoze, and have more troubles than you can imagine. Now, to be fair, their admins are not the brightest pixels in the stream, but schools tend to not pay the most money, so they get what they pay for. Her boss has been waiting for a couple of weeks to get his 98 box fixed. From what I can tell, she knows more than the IT guys.
That said, I taught a Linux class to several people a couple of months ago. Maine recently began a program to distribute laptops to all 7th graders. Since most schools had Apple systems, they were at a loss on how to integrate them.
Enter Linux. In two days, I taught a group of Apple and Windows skilled folks Linux basics, stressing command line skills and how to use Google for support. I was blown away by how quickly they came up to speed. Since they already had basic computer skills, all they needed to do was learn a slightly different way to apply them. All but one were able to build Linux boxes with SAMBA and DHCP services that both the Apple and MS boxes could tap into. The one that couldn't refused to adapt and constantly whined about using the command line. (I know, almost all of this can be done with a GUI. But I wanted them to learn more than how to point, click, select the defaults.)
So, I say hogwash to this failing. Those that don't want to learn, won't, you can't change that. Those that are able to take knowledge and apply it to new ideas will flourish.
People that can learn and adapt will be the people most sought after in our society because they will move it forward.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Stanley Feinbaum, dimwit.
Ok, again, from the top. These are CHILDREN. They learn well, have access to Windows in other places (read the article, Stan), and are somewhere between five and eighteen years from the job market.
In other words, what you're saying is the equivalent of "these kids aren't learning DOS 4.0 so they'll be utterly crippled when they try and get jobs using Windows 98".
Oh, and by the way, as somebody with about a decade in corporate IT, who has helped out in quite a few schools, and who has taught remedial computer skills classes for middle-aged unemployables, I can tell you that the amount of time that it takes to learn one OS if one is truly comfortable in another (please note that Curran at this school made a point of teaching that) is measured in weeks at most.
And I can also tell you from hard experience with hundreds of users that the biggest obstacle to learning how to use a given OS is crashing/failure. Put a user in front of a machine that is out of date and keeps crashing and they will blame first themselves, then the OS, then you, the teacher. All of these translate into resentment and all of them will create long-term barriers to use. So if this guy says that his system saves tons of money and thereby cuts seriously down on crashes then that right there will make the kids more computer-capable.
I'll try and say this over in small words to help you out.
1.) Linux today and Windoze today both are very different from whatever these kids will need to know when they graduate.
2.) These kids are nowhere near the job market.
3.) It gets easier every year to teach people to switch OSes.
and 4.) An approach that let the school buy and maintain better computers will right there help these kids on the way to being good with computers. All computers.
There. Was that so hard?
I swear, one of these days . . .
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Has anyone looked at what educational programs work under wine?
They don't. They run under KDE.
I work with a school district in Central Washington that has networked the entire district (only three schools really) using Linux as the infrastructure (routers, mail, proxies and the like) and Winblows and Macs for the end (l)users. This mix has resulted in a huge increase in the number of computers supportable in the district and given students the skills employers expect. However my personal opinion is anyone who can use OpenOffice or KOffice would be able to learn MSOffice in just a few hours.
We had to build our own as do most schools using Linux. http://k12ltsp.org/rhs_casestudy.html
When will large vendors realize that there is a market in K12 for Linux? EVERY install I see is the result of one or two hard working teachers, often supported by local LUGs working to save $$$ and provide technology to classrooms.
It's great to see this but these teachers are the exception not the norm.
And,
Also, if you've ever bothered to use Open Office, it's so similar to what you would use in Windows that learning it is hardly different than getting used to each new version of MS Office.
"...and got better hardware to boot."
With Windows, you have plenty of hardware to boot too. And you enjoy booting it more.
~D:
I do find the following humorous:
I had experimented with Linux a few years earlier but found it somewhat difficult and incomplete. Because some time had passed, I decided to give Linux another try. Going with Mandrake's 8.0 distribution, I installed Linux at home to see if it could replace Windows in a desktop environment. To my amazement, I found Linux to be much more capable this time around. I was one step closer to making my decision to switch our computer lab to the Linux OS.
Yes, it's quite amazing how software changes over the years!
The K12Linux.org link also has several other links to other K12 Open Source projects, including:
for the on-line Journal of Open Source Software in schools
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/