Slashdot Mirror
KDE 3.1 Released
Ashcrow writes "KDE 3.1 was released early this morning and boasts new usability enhancements, VNC-compatible desktop sharing, tabbed browsing, and a new download manager, among other enhancements.
You can read the release anouncement here and start downloading from the closest mirror. Kudos to the KDE Team!"
... the new drop down shadows for the menu's!
And a hefty decrease in startup and rendering time for konqueror, and a limit to the gif-animations allowed per second.
And a brand new splash screen!
Much compliments to the KDE-team!
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
screenshot 1
screenshot 2
screenshot 3
screenshot 4
Don't know how the lameness filter got involved, but here's what I'm doing about it.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. it's the only thing that ever has.
Well, VNC has supported X for ages. What this does is provides a KDE-based VNC viewing program as well as a very Windows-XP like application to send an invitation to someone else using KDE or VNC to allow them to connect to your desktop.
That's what the big news is. That, and if you're running OpenSLP, and you enable it, you can allow your shared desktop to be part of a browseable pool of desktops or you can browse through the pool and see desktops that are available from the SLP.
what an awesome (and of course slightly :) behind schedule) release.
tabbed browsing is an excellent that i love to use in moz. i notice it in konqueror, but the hot keys are different. perhaps there's a way to change them, but after months and months of using ctrl+t to get a new tab, i konq uses something different. i'm curious why not use the "standards" the moz dev team included. yeah, there's probably not an rfc for hot keys on opening a new browser tab, but something i use daily is standard.
another thing. i test drove konqueror in rc6, and pop-up windows were enabled by default. i guess this just makes the user find out how to turn them off? most people might not even know that they can turn them off. i think pop-up s/b off by default.
all in all - a very well polished desktop. the kde team delivers quality code as usual!
> What this does is provides a KDE-based VNC viewing program
What does it do that vncviewer doesn't do?
> as well as a very Windows-XP like application to send an invitation to someone else using KDE or VNC to allow them to connect to your desktop.
What does this do that e-mail doesn't do?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Ask RedHat. Or didn't you read the KDE binary package policy?
(Just so you know, the KDE developers gave binary packagers plenty of time to get their packages together. If RedHat didn't bother to, that's RedHat's fault. 3.1 has been delayed more than enough already, but it's out now, so it's time to celebrate.)
Well, no RedHat packages, which is not surprising considering the 'treatment' that KDE was subjected to by RH.
Also, I never managed to get the Win key mapped to anything in KDE 3.0.x. I wonder if the situation changed. As I recall, KDE wanted a 'Win' modifier and xmodmap did not have any knowledge of a modifier called 'Win'. Rather unfortunate.
Well, it integrates into KDE, for one. It doesn't look like ass, for two.
Nothing, it uses email to send the invitation (although it can be configured to send over other methods, iirc). However, it's a lot easier to simply type in the invitee's email address and let krfb set up the VNC server, and send the email with instructions on how to connect. It automates things so that the user doesn't have to know anything about configuring a VNC server.
Here . It's amazing... Some people are complaining that they didn't use AA fonts for the screenshots, and that's a bad PR decision. More on Osnews
DVD Ripping, Divx, VCD, SVCD under Linux
Does this mean Duke Nukem Forever is out? Or can I have a snowball fight with Satan?
Really though, I have been using KDE 3.1 since beta2, watching it move through its different stages to what is is now has been a great joy. The new control panel is much more intuative, keramic is purdy, and all the little toots and whistles you will find will make it enjoyable. KDE is the main reason I don't go back to windows.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Has anybody else come to the same conclusion that OS X's Aqua or Jaguar are starting to feel boring and lame while open source UIs offer more innovative and fresh themes all the time and ever more often? I honestly think so. I don't see anything cool in Jaguar anymore. No pun intented.
VNC is nice to have (but would I ever use it), some might like tabbed browsing, etc. etc., but that's nothing like finally having good javascript support, better and faster rendering in konqueror.
I'll wait for 3.2 with upgrading.
Here's the thing (about Ctrl+T).
See, KDE 2.0 had support for embedding a Konsole frame into the Konqueror window. As I'm sure you noticed, if you hit Ctrl+T, 3.1 still embeds a Konsole frame in the Konqueror window.
Fact of the matter is that we had a binding for Ctrl+T first... and changing around things that our users are used to as far as keybindings go is obviously a no-no. (Believe it or not there are people who use the embedded Konsole stuff. And it is pretty nifty.)
However, if you go to Settings->Configure Keybindings, you can alter it to change it from Ctrl+Shift+N to Ctrl+T or add Ctrl+T so you can use both. KDE has really good keybinding support, and it's very configurable.
Hope this helps.
Every time I read about how "Linux is not ready for the desktop", I just laugh. It's KDE that's the real desktop star, and yes it is ready! I've been using KDE at home since KDE2 came out, and find myself using Windows at work less and less.
When Windows XP came out, I gave it a fair shot. I didn't boot Linux/X/KDE for 3 months. Outlook was a giant pain, compared with KMail. IE was a nightmare, and I had to install Phoenix to escape unwanted programs and scripts. Easy CD Creator had me longing for X-CD-Roast. And XP crashed way too often.
Now KDE is getting even better. The SSH stuff is exactly what I need! Life is good.
This is another terrific release by the KDE team and I commend them on yet another release of some pretty sweet code.
I have one concern though, that I have seen others raise in the past and which makes me wonder if we're heading in the right direction. A quick scan through the new features is almost like reading about the new features introduced in a previous version of Windows. Is KDE simply trying to be 'more like Windows', which in turn would make KDE a much more familiar 'interface' for newbies to use? If so, then that's great and I'm sure that it will help increase its use amongst the masses.
What bothers me is that I'm beginning to see less and less 'innovation' and more and more 'feature copying'. Now, I understand that it's difficult to add a killer new feature without first having a base that an average user would expect to have, but when will we be able to reach the point where we can begin to 'differentiate' KDE from Windows in a unique way in order to furthur 'entice' potential users who simply see KDE as a 'Windows wanna-be'?
I for one love KDE and have used it as my primary desktop environment for at least a couple years now, and I always look forward to updates such as this one. They're always full of neat goodies. But I always get that feeling in the back of my mind that maybe we should try to 'think out of the box' a little more...
I've been a long-time GNOME user, and I'm just about ready to try something else.
I recently made some new themes for my GNOME2 desktop and was stymied by my GTK1 applications that... well... just wouldn't cooperate.
I'd previously made some GTK1 themes that more-or-less matched the GTK2 ones, but I cannot figure out how to convince GTK1 apps to use certain themes under my GNOME2 desktop environment. It's completely opaque.
There are so many apps I use that are still GTK1 (Galeon, Evolution, GAIM, etc etc etc) that my desktop is just plain ugly right now.
I'm getting fed up, and am trying to find something that will give me a nice even look & feel across applications. My main fear is that KMail and Konquerer won't be good Evolution/Galeon replacements.
In the end, I'll probably go OS/X, but I really hope it doesn't happen.
fifth sigma, inc.
Hey, did you bother to read the parent post?
He asked (and I quote) "where's the rpms, or do I really have to wait for rh8.1?"
Of course RedHat isn't the only distro to use RPM. Hell, SuSE has RPMs available. Guess what? They don't work on RedHat and they won't help him because he's (apparently) using RedHat 8.
You can have more than one user on the same desktop. Like say you've got a friend who's a linux n00b across the world and you wanna help him/her. He/she can just activate shared desktop, you connect to it, and boom there's another cursor in there. Or ideally at least.
VNC allows like you to run GUI remotely, just as ssh allows you to shell remotely, but the difference is, more than one person can be controlling the same display. It'd be like having two people typing on the same shell line, cept it's a lot more useful in the GUI world than in the console world.
Sigs pose an operational security risk and help the baddies aggregate data. I guess commenting does too, oops.
Also, a pretty release guide is available here Can't wait to try the new S/MIME support in Kmail. I'm so stoked!
A quick scan through most of the comments on this page reflect the sentiment that KDE represents one of the pinnacles for why any windows user would want to switch to linux, and why linux "is ready".
My two cents on this matter is that what I feel should be Linux's selling point, what should be the reason why people start using Linux, is not so much a single desktop GUI, a smattering of 'features' that windows lacks, or anything. It should be the notion that Linux is an aggregate whole of multiple works, and that under Linux there is always more than one answer to something.
*sniff*
Now wasn't that sentimental and goo-gahish.
Congrats to the Kdevelopers for Kde 3.1
Mac OS X has a unique look while both KDE and Windows uses a very similar interface.
The new thing with this KDE release is that it now really drags away from Windows with excellent icons and windowstyles.
I, and many people, have used this themes for a long time.
It's really interesting to see how much the german government has spent on KDE development. Wish more government would do that.
Ciryon
Well, personally I think the Aqua widgets look better than the Keramik ones (if you ignore the stripes! argh!). However, I prefer the Mist theme for GTK2 above all those, they look good, clean, and imho pretty sophisticated. They look good while avoiding being theme overkill. It's completely personal opinion though, these things always are. I think Keramik is a bit fat.
You raise a good point wrt theming though. Sure, everybody thought Aqua was cool when it first came out, and I guess many still do, but looks are about fashion and taste, and fashion changes. I remember when Windows 95 came out I thought it looked brilliant!
Now everything supports theming, new "in" styles come and go like anything. I know you can hack theming support onto MacOS, but without actual support from Apple that's all it is, a hack. I wonder if that's really a good idea in the long run. Maybe they'll introduce charged for visual styles, to give value add.
The original poster was referring to a lack of downloadable RPMs of KDE 3.1 for RedHat 8.0.
I responded explaining that RedHat failed to provide such RPMs for download, despite being given plenty of time as well as access to the source tarballs well in advance of today's release. That's all. I meant nothing about including 3.1 on their CDs. (Although they DID include a 3.1 beta on the 8.1 beta CD.)
But they have included a KDE 3.1 snapshot in the latest beta ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ .
Tagged as '3.1-0.11 Red Hat'.
The speedup in 3.1 is very noticeable. It looks great but also everything is much more responsive then before. :) but it feels so much different (i.e. better). The only issue I had before was that KDE was always slower compared to windoze running on the same machine but that difference seems to be almost completely gone.
I don't quite understand the complaints people have about KDE looking like windoze. Yes, it has windows
Once again, I am absolutely amazed at what this little thing called Open Source can do.
Just six years ago, an ambitious proposal was made to the world by a German university student named Matthias Ettrich. The goal of the project was to create a user-friendly, open source desktop environment similar to CDE, the Common Desktop Environment. CDE, at the time, was popular on Solaris and many proprietary Unix platforms. However, CDE's code base was closed and the Linux community was searching for a suitable replacement. Enough support built up that dozens of developers came together to create an entire desktop environment out of nothing. Over 20 months later, KDE 1.0 was released to the public. And there was much rejoicing.
Taking on Sun was an ambitious enough goal. But who would have imagined that Microsoft (Word document) (Google cache) would ever specifically name KDE as a viable competitor to Windows?
Microsoft may even start to get a little hotter under the collar if recent events are to show anything: Wal-Mart's on-line shopping site quickly ran out of their PC's built with a Linux distribution using KDE for its interface; most of the government computers in Largo, FL run KDE; and Apple implements a new Web browser based on KDE's KHTML library.
And if there is nothing else that the release of KDE 3.1 proves, it is that the naysayers are wrong again. All too often, there are those who try to suggest that there is some sort of heated conflict between the GNOME and KDE projects. Nothing could be further from reality. For example, on the Xdg mailing list prominent developers from both the GNOME and KDE projects work together in forming a consistent .desktop file standard. The
people that actually make GNOME and KDE have nothing but the highest respect for one another's projects. There is
none of the hostility that so many trolls would like others to believe.
It has just been wonderful seeing this release happen. I have been watching the KDE developer's mailing lists since July and I find it fascinating how the whole thing has come together. The graphics designers, the documentation writers, the translators, the event organizers, and, of course, the coders. All of these groups have been equally important in making KDE the enormous success it has become.
So, I just want to say thank you to everyone who made it happen. I just have to wonder what the next six years will bring!
Do not worry about finding a list of mirrors. download.kde.org will automatically forward you to an open mirror.
For a direct link to the packages, here are:
Note that you need a version of Qt >= 3.1.0. There are additional requirementsfor 3.1 you may want to know.
One thing I have never figured out with KDE is the lack of an installer. I like the installer from Ximian for Gnome. It is simple, and it handles dependencies (moderately well).
With KDE, I have to download a ton of files, and then figure out the aRTS dependencies and whatnot. I also have to figure out how to make Linux use KDE instead of Gnome. I can do it and get it installed, but why not have an installer?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
VNC *SERVING* on X used to be _strange_ - you ran a whole new X server that was a VNC server too, unlike on Mac and Windows, where you ran VNC and it exported your _existing_ desktop. Then someone wrote x0rfbserver, which does the Mac/Win-VNC like operation of publishing the desktop of an existing X server. KDE took x0rfbserver and KDE-integrated it (i.e. built a Qt GUI...)
So your grandma can call you and say "I can't do this", you can tell her to click "share desktop" (or whatever it's called), and you can fix it for her remotely.
would it be prudent for developers who work on applications similar in nature (eg web browsers) to get together and decide on a standard for things like this?
integration issues such as this are a useability issue that i think will seriously effect the success of linux on the desktop.
dont take this as a negative slice towards kde, since communication works both ways, its just a suggestion. it's also a problem which occurs in all applications: email clients, editors, etc. it would just make sense for developers to work together on this and come up with a default set of key bindings that is standard across all applications.
apart from the constructive criticism above, the screenshots 3.1 looks very sharp. i look forward to the tabbed browsing in konqueror among other things. good job to all of you.
-- john
> 4. a real GUI for everything
That one still needs a bit more elaboration.
Basically it frees you of having to read a manual and to remember command line options... and it offers 'profiles' for different network environments, so you do not need to know all the VNC codecs to have optimal settings(did you know that a -encodings "copyrect hextile" results in dramatically better latency values on local LANs than the default TightVNC settings?). And you can switch modes (fullscreen, scaled) while you are connected.
Also... This is an application, OK? Does it really require a desktop upgrade?
Not really, it is more about convenience for both user and developer. The newer KDE and Qt version fix a number of bugs that caused problems though. I do not have the time tomaintain backports, I rather work on improvements. You are, of course, free to provide backports for older KDE versions.
Lest anyone be accusing Red Hat of animosity towards KDE, note that RH's kernels are also behind the latest releases from Linus, and yet nobody ... well, nobody worth listening to -- claims that RH has it in for Mr. Torvalds' little project. I think it's far more likely that RH just has a rigorous QA process with the aim of releasing no package before its time than that they hate KDE. By the way, when the update for security problems in a recent version of KDE came out, RH came out with them in a timely fashion. This (3.1) release has lots of new neat features, but it's not a security update. Perhaps they believe (rightly, IMO) that users can wait for shiny new objects.
Besides, have you looked at how many packages it takes to install KDE? Eeep! I suppose up2date can handle that. Of course, the upgradability issue is there with GNOME; and I can't recall off the top of my head when RH has offered a point-release update for GNOME that wasn't security-related [ that's a hedge -- I can't recall when they have release a point-release update for GNOME period ].
For those of you who absolutely must have the latest, then take a look in the "rawhide" directory of any RH mirror, e.g. this one.
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
Editorial comments aside, you can expect kde-3.1 packages (currently, for rh73 only) to appear soon at kde-redhat.sourceforge.net.
I was a long time GNOME follower. Knowing GNOME 1.x and 2.x of it's best but I must admit that KDE 3.1 is the best Desktop Environment that I've seen so far.
- It's fast,
- Clean,
- Consistent,
- Really integrated,
- Usable,
- Beats Windows in certain situations on length.
I belive that with the 3.1 release of KDE that there is no real future for GNOME and I sometimes wonder why they still work on it and put so much effort into that project. GNOME will never comes out of the 'development' phase. Once an application looks halfway usable (still in development phase) it then starts to get changed once again which then makes it unusable for the next couple of months again.
There are a lot of nasty issues in GNOME even now in the stabilized gnome-2-2 branch which will get released in 2 days.
- Log in as user under console (not gdm) and then enter startx to load up X and GNOME then try to immediately log out. Nothing happens for the next 3-5 minutes. Then one time the logout dialog pleases itself to show up and let you log out (even this doesn't work seriously often). This problem has been announced on bugzilla.gnome.org and hasn't been fixed till yet.
- Gnome-Terminal install the bluecurve theme and fullsize it. The theme disappears.
- Bonobo and Glade toolbars are looking differently get a look here.
- Documentation for programmers. There are still no sign for usable GNOME 2 documentations, how should a programmer get into GNOME 2.x development when he knows shit about howto use the functions and what purpose they have. There is the API reference manuals for all libraries (still unfinished and incomplete), there are old documentations for GTK1 and GNOME1 and there is the GTK 2 tutorial which only describes the first 20% of the Toolkit but nothing more. No documentation explaining Gnome-VFS, Bonobo and other complex things. You've been told to 'use the source Luke' all the time but it's hard spending 3 months into buggy code of others to get a clue how things are made and then adapt maybe buggy code to your own project because you don't know it better howto use these things.
- Still nothing as simple as a Fileselector yet,
- Still no snap to grid feature.
- GNOME is mostly a hacking around when I have the mood to it or when I feel that I need to tweak this and that. There is no real roadmap or featureplan such as in KDE even months ago I was able to read and KNOW what will be in KDE 3.1 and even now I know what will be in 3.2
GNOME are hyping and making shitty things such as 'open recent' features look like its a revolutionary progress in the desktop while on the other hand its a little gift from KDE.
Sorry to come over with the same shit all the time but people tend to compare KDE and GNOME all the time so do I. I really like KDE and I also like GNOME very much (used to be a GNOME follower) but all this is soo sad. Now seeing KDE 3.1 and compareing it with 3.0 then I ask myself wow. What's wrong with GNOME ? 2.0 and 2.2 is no big step if you compare it with the changes made in KDE.
Well this can endlessly be expanded. I appreciate and welcome the work of the GNOME developers they are definately trying to do a good job but imo it's not enough for the public. And it makes me sick reading all the shit from GNOME zealots replying to KDE people how much mature GNOME is (which it definately is not). Fancy themes and icons doesn't make a good desktop environment.
Better yet, does the KDE viewer buffer the graphics?
Yes.
Btw, whatever happened to Keystone?
Nothing, it never supported any of the compression encodings. Porting the TightVNC client was easier than adding all the stuff to keystone...
Good for you lucky people with Linux boxes!. Here I am stuck up with Windows.
Hey is someone porting it to Cygwin;)?.
Is there a KHTML port being planned?.
Yes, am stuck in windows!
No, no vnc over ssh ATM. (I think that ssh tunnels are pretty hackish btw, ssl should result in a smoother user experience).
RDP support is currently in CVS - but there is no RDP server for X11, and it would be a lot of work to write one... rather expect the ability to use X11 as protocol with a UI like VNC.
You know this K-naming thing has really gotten to the KDE folks when you read about the new game Atlantik: "Inspired by the famous boardwalk in Atlantik City, New Jersey...".
I usually try KDE every new release, and after some time, I wind up going back to GNOME. I'm just more comfortable with GNOME. I can't explain it.
But these KDE releases are knocking the socks off those little GNOME feet with features. Some things that caught my eye, in order of coolness: kio_fish, VNC integration, and a file selector dialog that doesn't suck.
It's very impressive, and it's terribly exciting to see this rate of polish being added to these big projects. Congrats to the KDE team for another (hopefully solid) release.
Jason.
> What this does is provides a KDE-based VNC viewing program
What does it do that vncviewer doesn't do?
Scaled windows, better cut and paste support, no *XResource shit...
I used to use vnc with KDE... then I found out about krdc... I have never looked back.
Interestingly, the new kdrc in CVS HEAD also supports RDP right out of the box, and I hear rumblings of Citrix now and again too (using Citrix's libs, IIRC)
Personally I like the Keramik window decorations, but I despise the widgets.
I use the KDE default widget set (HighColour Default I think it's called), Keramik for the window decorations, "Desert Red" for the colour scheme (I get so sick of blue or black-based schemes) and Noia for the icons. I'm not a big fan of transparency, but I have just a hint (96 or 98% opacity) for the menus -- what the hell, it's kind of neat and I have the processor power for it.
Screenshot is here. The IM app you see is Psi, the best damned Jabber IM I've run across. I'm not the author, but I have contributed a few patches to help the project.
The vnc desktop sharing idea is a pretty cool one (using it for support is an XP idea, i believe), and is something Gnome could do with. I think it'd be a good project for Red Hat to get involved with. So, if you purchase a high level of support from them, and you *really* can't solve a problem you're getting, you can call tech support and they could remotely do it for you in front of your eyes. Theres money to be made there I think.
As for KDE, well it's got a load of new features etc....but it's....still....ugly. Sorry.
i wish i was but oh well
What a nice thing to do. Konsider it for your new kpolicy!
Wah!
Click the maximize button with the middle mouse button.
It'll take quite a while (fetches and builds everything from source), but it is just a single make command to build everything, so you can set it off and walk away.
Got a build running now, will let you know how well it goes. Halfway through kdebase, been running for a couple of hours on a 1GHz machine.
Will we ever see a complete desktop environment? I think of a typical PC GUI desktop as one with folders, each one unique. I want each folder to reopen with its own original size, position, view setting and visual fluff. This was what I took for granted on OS/2's WPS. But on KDE, directories that I create on the desktop or elsewhere all open up in Konqueror in the same standard file management window. Sometimes I want a folder with links to apps or music or pictures or video: a single default view profile will not do. To me, files are better displayed in a list, JPGs as preview icons, etc. Sometimes, the full-featured window with sidebar and command line is great. Other times, I just want a simple window of icons. But there is no way to specify this for each directory.
I'm not sure if I am expressing myself clearly. I just want to express my wonder that for all the eye candy and features built into KDE, its basic file and desktop browsing seems so inflexible. It still seems so far from the original 1984 Mac in some ways.
Tabbed browsing is a UI feature. Safari is only using the KHTML rendering engine. The rendering engine shouldn't care whether it is drawing into a tab or window. This means that features added to Konqueror don't necessary become part of Safari or vice versa. Both browers have lots of code apart from the rendering engine. Improvements to the rendering engine will come to both sooner or later. Their interfaces are independent though.
Back when Microsoft and IBM were buddy-buddy pals, they were working on something called "CUA", a TLA that stands for "Common User Access" (do a net search on it for details -- there ARE plenty of books out there on it) This is where things like ctl-c for copy, ctl-v for paste, and the like came into being
Basically, Microsoft has proven the concept -- make the same keystrokes map to the same (conceptual) action all the time, and users will like/learn/adapt/adopt your software that much faster. Unfortunately, by the time you implement the majority of these "common" features, you're "desktop" environment tends to look pretty homogenous when set next to any other desktop. (of course, that is probably how it should be anyway -- the "desktop" environment is merely a way to get to the data on a system, not the system itself...)
Microsoft has pretty much always muddied the waters when it comes to the distinction between a "user interface" and the "system interface" [better known as the "operating system"...] By tightly integrating the user interface with the actual OS code, you create the impression that the user interface itself is indeed "the OS" -- IBM kept a tacit distinction between "OS/2" and the "Presentation Manager" [you could, for instance, build a text-based version of the PM and substitute it instead -- you end up with something that looks amazingly similar to Unix on a mainframe box...] Linux just proves that this "distinction" is certainly feasible -- the implementation of the user interface can be completely seperate from the OS (and as interchangeble as a set of tires on the family car...)
OK, I'm rambling now -- time to let the mod-trolls do their worst to these comments...
> 1.- I feel that both gnome and kde are getting very bloated.. does kde packages allow me an easy selection of what I want to install?
The KDE project only releases source tarballs. It's up to the distros to decide how they want to package it. Debian, for example, splits the packages into every app.
> 2.- Does kde have something like the graphical greeter in gnome (2.x only I belive)??
You mean gdm? yeah, kde has had kdm for a very long time.
This is part of Klipper. Its icon is probably in your system tray as a clipboard with a K on it. Right click on that icon, choose Configure, and uncheck "Popup menu at mouse-cursor position".
-- Fester
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
If you like to vertically maximize a lot, just go ahead and configure that as your double-click on the titlebar behaviour:
;-)
In KDE 3.0.x: Control Center->Look & Feel->Window Behaviour->Actions->Title bar double-click
In KDE 3.1: I'm not sure since I haven't finished compiling 3.1 and I wiped the release candidate already
-chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence