Slashdot Mirror
DVD: Degradable Versatile...
jomaree writes "The SMH online reports that some DVDs are starting to corrode or "rot". Although somewhere between 1 and 10 per cent of DVDs are affected, it seems the distributors don't want to know.
One list of affected movie titles reveals what might be a sinister pattern emerging:
"One DVD website lists 18 titles known to have at least one bad batch, among them Planet of the Apes (1968), Men in Black: Collectors Edition, Independence Day and the Alien Legacy box set."
Or maybe the person compiling the list only buys sci-fi movies."
After all, isn't making a backup somewhat illegal under the DMCA??
Man...I can't wait for another round of forced upgrades...or replacements in this case!
Woohoo! I'm glad to be a consumer!!
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
I had a DVD that was released in 2000 start to lose quality, also I noticed that the layers seemed to be seperating. I take good care of all my cds and dvds, so I knew it was no fault of mine. I contacted the company who pressed the dvd and they offered to send me a replacement as long as I sent in the original.
There is no spork.
Or could this be "planned obsolescence," i.e., Sony's PlayStation2 hardware problems? (The PS2 breaks more often than the GC and XB combined, and usually Sony wants $100 just to look at it)
Planned obsolescence. Companies know that as long as a consumer has somethign that works they are inclined to keep using it. They can't make money selling you one product once. The whole goal of these companies is to have you buy thier product again and again. Why do you think so few quality products are available today?
For a minute there I thought that it might affect the porn titles but luckily it didn't happen. I think we could have been looking at riots and possibly martial law.
You can steal my car, rob my mom, and beat my brother but DON'T FUCK WITH MY PORN!
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
Or maybe this only happens to bad sci-fi movies.
no this problems are known...
it is not just his dvd player
stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
Ok NOT Trolling;
But I find it oddly convenient that I am not legally able to dupe my DVD collection, and THEN magically they start to break... total boon to the studios and MPAA!
Although, in an odd way this could be the YRO savior... think of it... this is a perfect reason to extend 'fair use' rights to digital media... DVDs break...computers crash, all necessitating backups... with DVDs rotting, it becomes alot harder for the RI/MPAA to argue against allowing 'perfect digital' duplicates...
Mr. Valenti, I now have a perfectly valid and (IANAL but seems) legal reason to dupe my DVDs. I would love to see someone go to court and sue because the product was faulty and they are not legally able to make copies, and the studio wont replace it because the DVD is out of the 90 day warranty period... this could be very interesting!
_CMK
Bad spellers of the world untie!
As much as this sucks for the people currently affected, I can't help but think of this as a good thing overall. It's only when Joe Schmoe starts to feel the fact that his fair use rights have been taken away by the DMCA that there will be enough outcry to repeal it.
Linux, isn't sexy. This, however, is the stuff those stupid segmants on the 10 o'clock news are made of.
After 10 months of owning the Collectors Edition of this movie, I was annoyed to find that it, in fact was unplayable at all. After closer inspection, it looked like the center of the first disc had been cracked in several places, while other DVD discs that I have played (for longer periods too) have stayed in perfect shape. I never noticed this because, until they are being viewed, my movies stay in their respective containers. This is the primary reason why I often resort to DivX and shifting formats of video. Other movies, I find, are very sensitive to layer changes, and once again, when I play back a DivX copy off a CD, I don't experience such problems (except the lack of extra features I probably won't use).
This site appears to be the original source. This guy puts his bad DVDs under a high powered microscope and documents the damage.
Wasn't it in "Men in Black" when Mr.Agent K shows a little silvery disc and says something like: This little thing will substitute the CD in the next years. SH**, so i havce to buy "The White Album" again. Maybe this is a similiar plan?
... whenever a text is transmitted, variation occurs. This is because human beings are careless, fallible, and occasiona
If it became commonly known that not only do DVDs degrade, but also you can't legally copy them to preserve the content that you already paid for, maybe there'll be enough disgruntled people writing to their Congresscritters that the DMCA will get a serious review.
That won't help Joe Sixpack until legally licensed DVD-copying shops start to appear, but until then us geeks might be able to legally help out our buddies...
Yeah, it's supposedly illegal, but why not archive your DVD's as DivX movies? Potential DVD damage seems like a pretty stinkin' good reason to me.
DivX quality is pretty good, it's playable under linux (I like Mplayer, myself), and you don't have to worry about your DVDs getting scratched/broken/lost/stolen when they get handled.
Nothing like having your entire DVD collection available on every computer in the house, served straight from your file server.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
There are no walmarts in .au.
*bzzzzt* Thankyou for playing. Please come again.
Okay, so this is the stuff that if you throw it in the landfill it'll be around for a million years (give or take), but if you make a disc out of it it'll decompose in two years. Pretty uncooperative of it, if you ask me.
Well, personally I don't worry about DVDs degrading. I just rip them to my hard drive, bit for bit, minus copy protection (so come arrest me, why doncha). Takes up a lot of space, but what the hey...it's cheaper than buying them, especially twice!
I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
[Sarcasm]
All of the titles are associated with aliens in some way? Coincidence? I think not.
Using the best fuzzy logic that caffeene and sleep-deprivation can provide, I can prove this fact.
The DMCA is evil, and has long conspired against anyone actually enjoying their information. It's also meant to make more money, and since people will have to purchase the "non-defective" discs, or more than likely pay twice the DVD cost in handling costs for a replacement, it makes them more money. The MPAA/RIAA is the main driving force behind the the DMCA.
The government has supposedly been covering up the existance of aliens for decades, and usually does everything they can to make it fictional. They tend to distroy anything with truth in it.
The government passed the DMCA, and it prevents these Discs from being copied.
The movies are all about aliens, and the government hides things about aliens.
Therefore, the people at the RIAA/MPAA who back up the DMCA must be aliens.
And that makes aliens evil.
[End Sarcasam]
but I do know that CD's and DVD's are both the same in that the are physically constructed of several layers.
Each layer consists of various polymers, and although sealed polymers are susceptible to degrading. Even though they are realtively robust compared to say, videotape, the weakest part of a CD or DVD is the side where information is made available to the reading device.
Polymers can react with moisture or UV light, and once that reaction starts (this is where a *real* chemist should start to add some meat to this discussion) it throws off by products that cause further degradation.
CDs and DVD's do ship with a protective layer that is intended to shield the delicate, information carrying sublayers but once damaged (i.e., scratched), the degradation process can begin.
Apparently if you store them properly - low humidty and at about 8 to 10 C, even damaged CD's and DVD' s will remain stable indefinitely.
A message from our sponsor
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_328113.html?m enu=news.quirkies
CD-eating fungus discovered
A Spanish scientist has discovered a fungus which eats CDs.
Geologist Victor Cardenes says he stumbled across the microscopic creature while visiting Belize.
The discovery came after friends complained that one of their CDs had developed an odd discoloration that left parts of it virtually transparent.
Using an electron microscope, Cardenes and colleagues at the Madrid-based Superior Council for Scientific Research later observed that fungi had burrowed into the CD from the outer edge.
It had then devoured the thin aluminium reflecting layer and some of the data-storing polycarbonate resin.
Cardenes said: "If you look at the CD from the shiny side, in the places where the fungus has been you can see all the way through to the painted surface on the other side.
"It completely destroys the aluminium. It leaves nothing behind."
Biologists at the council concluded that the fungus belonged to a common genus called Geotrichum but had never seen this particular species before.
They add that, fortunately for Europeans, the fungus only survives in the sultry weather conditions that prevail in Belize.
Story filed: 16:53 Friday 15th June 2001
I think I've found the site that shows the list of "rotting" DVD titles mentioned in the article:
http://www.pnc.com.au/~jmcmanus/dvdrot.htm
I'm surprised Titan A.E. isn't on the list. Both I and a friend of mine own this DVD, and we've both had our copies degrade to be nearly unplayable. Mine has spent its entire life in a 200-disc carousel, where none of the other discs have had any problems.
What has *science* done?!? -- Dr. Weird (ATHF)
Studying for a masters degree in conservation and restauration of visual media, we've just hit the subject of digital conservation. guess what... 'It is recommended to make backups of DVD's every FIVE years, since the format cannot be considered stable for more than 10 years, even in ideal storage conditions' the cracking of the plastic layer is inherent to the prodduction proces, figure that! Seems that the alu/plastic bonds cause excessive strans because they have different expansion characteristics, so everytime they get a bit hotter/colder, the risk of cracking occurs. furthermore, some plants use 'glues' that affect the alu layer, so it starts corroding. kinda depressing all that...
Is there anything in the works for use as a true archival media? I'm talking something with a shelf life of hundreds of years, or is that just sci-fi right now?
On a kinda related notion, I remember reading an article in Analog sci-fi (maybe) about how you would leave a message for people 20-30,000 years from now. Such as to mark a storage site for nuclear waste. Not easy...
Safe to say your DVD collection would be dust.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
I haven't run into this problem myself (yet), but some of the DVDs I have are in cases that require you to BEND THE DISC to get it out. What a horrible design!
I own a DVD of Gladiator (with Russel Crowe). There isn't a single scratch on the disc, but now when I put it in the player, it can't get beyond the menu (even on the computer). I'm not sure why these companies can't have a return policy since they're so cheap to make (ie, they tell you to send some type of SASE) but I suppose it's the whole thing about getting people to buy the same movie over and over again. I thought I had a license to view it by owning it, but if I can't do that, what do I have?
He works as a failure analysis engineer, with access to an optical microscope.
An optical microscope huh? Wow. He must be a really important guy. You can't just by that kind of technology in a high street store. No, wait, actually, you can...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
R4
10 Things I Hate About You
101 Dalmations
Abyss SE
Alien Boxset
Bad Boys - repressed
Contact - repressed
Gremlins
Notorious
Independence Day SE
Hercules
L.A Confidential - repressed
Little Mermaid
Men in Black CE
Moonraker
Planet of the Apes 1968
Pinnochio
Stuart Little
Tarzan
R1
Antz
Boogie Nights - first release
Bone Collector
Chicken Run
Contact
Dances With Wolves
Galaxy Quest
Devil's Advocate
L.A Confidential
The Negotiator
Stuart Little
T2:UE (Dual Sided Disc)
War Games
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
Since when were these discs glued togther?
CD's, DVD's...they are not 'glued' together, as the article states. This guy should be shot.
Anyone that knows will tell you why they refer to the 'stamper' when they talk about mass duplication. I'll wait for a more knowledgeable source to comment on DVD 'rot'...Sure, if you keep them on the dashboard of your van, or floor of the basement...but falling apart just by laying around in a case...not sure about that one. I can see delamination from a faulty stamping procedure, but these machines are expensive and are operated in clean rooms. Each disc is verified, etc. You'd know if you had a chronic problem, and then you have a different issue, such as fraud for selling bad goods. To say that 10% of the DVD's in general use are now faulty sounds like a bit of FUD.
You, like many others, have a dirty lens (laser). In most cases, a swipe with a lens cleaning disc will do the trick...in some cases, the unit will need to be opened, and the lens area dusted with compressed air..that stuff in the can. If your player lives in a dusty or smoke typical area, you might want to think about opening it twice a year and cleaning things out.
I'd give this a shot before I started returning DVD's.
http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdripping
IF you think that life span of DVD's is short, what about hard drives? Hard drives are only *designed* to work for a year. I don't store anything critical on a hard drive without a CD backup.
No, Disney does it to jack up demand thus the price and sales of their movies. They've done it for many, many years with VHS tapes.
Also, even though Divx is pretty good you can still tell a major difference in picture quality (especially if the DVD is like 720p originally).
The maximum DVD resolution is 720x480, however that is 480p. 720p would be 1280x720, and there are no such DVDs. While divx rips usually have almost the same resolution (640x???), they have to resize the pixels (4:3 or 16:9 on DVD, 1:1 in DivX), which is the biggest cause of problems, particularly with lines that get jagged. Even with anti-aliasing, it's quite noticable if you look for it. But, I don't irritate over it, so for me it's completely ok.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Is yet to be determined - expert are currently examining the Alien Legacy boxed set to see if only the first two DVD's survived.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've noticed the same thing with CDs, albeit under a certain degree of abuse:
I use unwanted AOL and other CDs as "bird chasers" -- that is, I hang 'em outside in a tree to help keep the starlings out of my yard. Normally they pretty much last forever, or until the wind fairy steals 'em.
The newest "bird chaser" consists of one rather old AT&T Connect CD, and one newish AOL 7.0 CD (the "rainbow" version). The AT&T CD still looks like new. The data layer of the AOL CD started flaking after about 4 months, and had completely peeled away after about 6 months; all that was left is the naked clear part of the disk. I'd never seen that before, but it sure looks like "made real poorly" to me. Contrast this to an AOL 3.0 CD that had hung outside for over a year before being rescued because a friend needed that particular version. It still installed just fine.
Now, not that we care if AOL CDs fall apart, but I think it's probably a warning as to the current manufacturing quality of CDROM disks in general.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?