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Good News For Creating Quicktime On Linux
"I've been finding Kino handy for capturing from VHS and Hi-8 because the auto-split avoids sync issues with large files. Cinestream (Windows NLE) can't seem to keep long captures in sync when I use my Sony DVMC-DA1 box but capturing in Kino has been a simple un-attended workaround. Now that it captures in Quicktime, it's even better because I can feed the Quicktime files directly to Cinestream with no pre-processing, and the quality is very good.
If you also install Cinelerra, you can also view some types of Quicktime in Linux. Cinelerra is an awesome multi-track NLE with several supplied effects/transitions/filters, but it also includes "X movie," which plays DV files captured with Cinestream as well as some other types (but nothing with Sorenson).
Both Cinelerra and Kino can open and edit Quicktime files from Cinestream.
Oh, what about audio? I've been trying a program called " Ardour" which is a real-time 24-track hard-disk recorder on Linux. Of course it's useful for "simpler" things too like a precision audio editor.
So Linux is coming a long way as a viable platform for high-quality editing (with nice interfaces too). And since it and the apps are free, that goes a long way. Microsoft said in a recent filing that it may be forced to lower prices due to competition from free software. Maybe one day the only people who pay for an editing package will be those who need support or buy it preconfigured with hardware."
Good stuff here.
Good, now we can create it, but when will I be able to view quicktime on Linux?
So Linux is coming a long way as a viable platform for high-quality editing
To bad they are about 5 years late.
This is a definite step forward for linux on the desktop.
but does it have to be so damn win95 looking?
Just in case it's already /. !
:-). One additional improvement, which seems to help, is the AV/C Poll Interval in preferences. The polling thread appears to be too intensive for some devices. The default is now 200ms, which is a fairly safe value, but you can try increasing it up to 999. On the other hand, my camera handles the lowest value of 10ms just fine. Also, now Kino waits for 3 failures to retrieve this information in a row before giving up and resetting the state of Kino's transport buttons.
Summary
The latest version of Kino fixes a number of bugs while improving the user interface and adding support for Quicktime DV files and dv1394.
Audio Encoding
This release fixes a number of audio encoding issues, which also requires libdv version 0.99. Kino 0.6.3 will still use libdv 0.98, but libdv 0.99 is required to completely fix it. Movie projects with mixed audio formats work better now not only in FX. In addition, with mixed audio format projects, new resampling options in Export provides a more consistent stream to IEEE 1394 devices or DV output files.
Audio Crossfade Effect
Also, while speaking of audio, the FX/Audio/Transition/Switch has been changed to a Cross Fade with user-definable spline-based controls for the fade out of clip A and the fade in of clip B.
dv1394
This release adds support for dv1394. dv1394 is optional and is not the default for both capture and export. As a result, Preferences has changed quite a bit to accomodate this change. If you have previously had trouble exporting DV back to your camera because your camera did not accept the signal, then you should try dv1394. It reportedly works for nearly everyone where video1394 would not work. dv1394 is a new module in kernel 2.4.19 and later, or you can get it from Linux 1394 Subversion. A special new feature with dv1394 is a "Preview on external monitor" preferences display option. With this enabled, as you work in Edit or Trim, all video preview is also output using dv1394! Carefully, read the new dv1394 help page at http://www.linux1394.org/dv1394.html before attempting to use it.
Quicktime
The release also adds support for Quicktime DV that is compatible with Heroine Virtual's Broadcast 2000 or Cinelerra. This is native support meaning you can capture to it, edit it, and export it using Export/DV File. You must explicitly configure Kino for Quicktime using the --with-quicktime configure option.
Capture
A major bug affecting Capture and AV/C was located and fixed. Enabling AV/C would start a thread to poll for transport status and timecode. There was a bug in the timecode routine that can deadlock the thread. For some devices AV/C has not worked well. This was addressed partly with libavc1394 0.4.1 but Kino has made some improvements as well (including the above bugfix
Eye Candy
There is some nice new user interface features too. First, there is the More Info panel that expands to show detailed information about the file, video format, and audio format for the current frame. Second, in the scene strip on the left of the window, the current scene highlights. The previous two additions only work when timecode update is enabled, so if you are constrained on CPU power, you can leave all these things disabled for better performance although the overhead is very slight on and, for example, an AMD 800MHz shows no penalty. Third, there is a newly designed scrub bar and trim control. Finally, a convenient command reference window is available under the Help menu or by pressing Ctrl+F1.
MPEG Export
A cleanup option is added to Export/MPEG that is enabled by default. Disable the option to prevent the exporter from deleting temporary files in case mplex fails. Also, there is a bugfix to properly split into separate mpeg files for each scene--this option does not use mplex splitting, so this works very good for creating multiple chapter DVDs with dvdauthor.
Jog/Shuttle Controller
If you are a USB Jog/Shuttle user, then we now use the HID driver and not custom modules. We do not know if this works OK with the Sony controller. If you use the Sony controller, let us know. It it still easy to compile Kino for use with the custom modules. However, the HID driver works good with the Contour ShuttlePRO, loads nicely with hotplug, making this a more simple ready-to-use option for users.Using a shuttle controller in conjunction with the new Preview on External Monitor feature is very nice! Note that keymappings have changed some with the move to the HID driver; however, key mappings are now configurable in Preferences. One can press the key (combinations too!) on the controller with the dialog open to select it.
FFMPEG Libavcodec
If you are trying to use Kino on a PowerPC, you can try to enable FFMPEG libavcodec using the --with-avcodec options. The libavcodec DV decoder adds accelleration for PowerPC whereas libdv does not. See configure --help or the README for more information. We will not be embedding any libavcodec source code at this time to avoid any legal ramifications. Therefore, this option may be out of sync with the latest libavcodec API from time-to-time.
From v0.90pre2 changes: "experimental Sorenson 1/3 encoding (using quicktime DLLs) (only to AVI, and these files can only be played with MPlayer! It's needless to mail us about when will be MOV encoding too, as neither we know:) "
.mov support in other programs, I doubt finishing .mov support in Mencoder will take long.
Mencoder is part of MPlayer."
It is not complete, but chances are you can encode/capture avi-ish Sorenson with Mencoder. This will probably work with most of the extra filters and encoding options to make changes the video. Seeing
Although I bet linux still not that great for MOV editing/encoding, it's coming along quite nicely right now as you can see.
Does this new breakthrough have DMCA implications?
(Yeah, I know, but I thought it needed to be said.)
This is the real signature
(Beats those shadows on the cave wall, don't it?)
go to mplayerhq.hu
xinehq.de
Install the latest beta, grab the Win32 codecs (ask on the mailing list if you're not sure where to get them from) and you're done. It can even do streaming, it has a Mozilla plugin...
With the existance of DivX, Xiph.org and many others.
Not saying there aren't any, but I have yet to see a QuickTime video that matches the quality of some of the other formats. A visit to TheForce.net has given me this opinion.
__________________________________
Free your mind - Flush your toilet
The facts are that some people just don't understand a parody, and can't tell the difference between a joke and FUD.
xinehq.de
You need the latest beta, and you have to also get the Win32 codecs (Quicktime included). If not sure where to get the Win32 codecs from, ask on the mailing list.
It works fine, it can play streaming material. It even has a Mozilla plugin.
And it's not just Quicktime, you can play basically any multimedia format: DivX, DVD, SVCD...
Since Apple failed miserably with giving us a decent movie player. I'd be much happier if Quicktime was given to us as a normal codec "plugin" so they could be played with WMP or just about any other movie player for Windows.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
...if this sounds like a rather open ended question, but we have MPlayer playing pretty much any a/v codec on the planet right now, and we have decent video tools (esp. Cinelerra). What's stopping people getting together to make it possible for all the codecs being used universally?
ie- So that you're able to open sorenson encoded files seamlessly in cinelerra, and encode/save out to various divx mutations.
Come on people, we're so close!
I unserstand that libavcodec does this with many files (mpeg derivatives), but not the *ahem* less legal ones.
I can't wait until the day I plug a Firewire dv cam into a mandrake box, a dv cam icon pops up on the desktop and allows joe to edit away to his heart's content.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
I'm sorry to offend you, but: Duh.
Right, I see what you mean, btw: Linux "lost" the "game" and the others "won". Yippee. Kudos to the proprietary (which should be listed under to "needlessly expensive" in the thesaurus) solutions. They get a point.
I'm looking forward, however, to the day when you're still paying through the nose (or any other available orifice MS might like you to use) for things I'm getting (for) free.
(Notice the carefully worded meaning: the software IS free when I get it FOR free. Meaning "free" as in "speech" - and as in "beer".)
(And i'll figure it out for you for free, too: I can work for my clients for less than you can, then. Or simply have a much larger profit margin. That way, you ACTUALLY lose and I ACTUALLY win. See you in the real world, chum.)
You can view them with Mplayer. Just get the required codecs. Quicktime, realplayer, win32, etc up at: http://ftp.lug.udel.edu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/
One word :
XMOVIE.
Xmovie will let you play DV format Quicktime. I've downloaded some mpeg-4 Quicktime that also played in xmovie.
Mplayer is really awesome and is supposed to play Sorenson encoded files but I haven't tried that.
Quit demanding that Apple should make you a movie player for free. If you want a high-quality Quicktime experience, buy a Mac. If you want to remain five years behind the times with regards to audio and video, stick with Linux.
AS someone working in a Regional TV station I would love to be able to switch our production facilities away from the MS based systems we are using now and move them to a Linux based system.
I am starting to write something for this myself but I would like to know how close we are to actually achieving this aim. I have looked at several of the packages on offer such as KDENLIVE and Cinelerra but none of them are what I would call studio ready.
Well I keep hoping.
Nuff said.
What you really want is to be able to import uncompressed video via Firewire (or DV-compressed video, like what the story mentions) and edit it from there.
"I can't wait until the day I plug a Firewire dv cam into a mandrake box, a dv cam icon pops up on the desktop and allows joe to edit away to his heart's content."
If you're willing to shell out $999 for an iBook, you can have this today. Cheers! Enjoy Gnome 2.2 (snicker)....
Does anyone else think that Apple is going to shit a brick over this? I'm sure they don't mind Linux users being able to view Sorenson encoded files because they arn't really loosing anything, Linux users just otherwise wouldn't view these files. But now people have an option to make quicktime moves without paying for Apple software. (I'm saying this assuming that Apple dosen't make any free Sorenson encoding programs)
my other penis is a vagina
http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/w32codec -0.52-1.i386.rpm
Why this is good and different is that Kino has an auto-split feature that Cinelerra doesn't have. Also no truly good Windows non-linear-editors have this feature. So now, if you need to capture say a long VHS tape or even a DV tape where scene capture isn't appropriate, and you need to edit the files in Windows as well, you just pop in the tape, specify 2 GB files (16000 frames), point Kino at a FAT32 formatted drive, hit capture and go away for an hour or two and audio and video will be in perfect sync in all files, This is very difficult to get right with large file capture. It's also much easier to feed these Quicktime files to any Windows app that can edit Quicktime much easier than it is with Kino's AVI files, so this is a big deal at least until it's possible to more in Linux than Cinelerra can do now and especially for those of us who need to create cros-platform files,
All the (F)free software from now until the end of time could not possibly make you a winner, chum.
here.
DirectShow on Win32 has quietly evolved into a multimedia scene graph similar to Quicktime, and GStreamer is the rather smarter effort on Linux.
(see here for an example of the clever tricks you can do in DirectShow just by accessing the scene graph with GraphEdit)
Unfortunately, most people seem more interested in demanding obscure playback modules in MPlayer, rather then looking at the problem from an abstracted view.
(OGRE takes the same approach for 3D engines, but people would still rather look at Crystal Space. le sigh.)
--
Over the past several months, I've been using Kino to edit together a wedding video for my brother-in-law and his wife. I did the original filming with two cameras, so I had some extensive editing to do. Wanting to get away from Windows and the 4GB file size limit, I decided to explore Kino.
After some work setting it up, everything worked surprisingly well. DV capture (from a Sony TRV-950) was painless and the editing went pretty smoothly. I ended up having to create a separate audio track to dub over the entire video. It was at that point that I discovered a bug in Kino's dubbing feature. Because of the way audio was handled, there was a progressive desynchronization of the audio and video. The good news is that after posting some messages on their forum, the issue got fixed in the CVS (and I presume the new version incorporates the fix).
I've been exporting the finished product (several gigs of DV) to VCD, and the results have been very satisfactory. All in all, anyone who wants to try editing DV video in Linux should at least give Kino a good try- the interface is clean and relatively intuitive and I was able to figure things out without a lot of trouble. Before using Kino, my only experience had been a little work with Pinnacle Studio 7.0.
Apple is the enemy too. Just smaller.
Actually, QuickTime the file format is completely documented and open.
Apple's implementation is propritary, as are some of the codecs. But as a file format, it is radically better than AVI for doing media authoring.
An open source implementation would be good forever.
My video compression blog
The 4GB file limit was fixed in Windows back with NTSF and NT workstation. You're probably runnine ME, or have a FAT32 formatted drive.
My video compression blog
No, Apple didn't fail to make you a movie player. They didn't try. I've heard estimates on the order of 100 engineer-years to do a full port of QuickTime to *NIX. The Windows port took over a year more than originally scheduled, and requiried porting huge chunks of the MacOS Toolbox to Windows. Something equivalent would be required for *NIX, with an even bigger moving target. Plus there is LOTS of processor specific optimizations there.
And how would that help Apple?
My video compression blog
is quicktime the prefered format for video? i prefer Xvid(open source, high quality, high compression).
its very nice to have so many options available, especially on linux now. i have been using crossover plugin to play quicktime movies on my linux box but now ill be able to play them native.
good work.
Sure it's an excellent utlity for watching, editing, and manipulating video, including Quicktime, in Linux. But I would also recommend Codeweavers Crossover plugin which will give you quicktime in your web browser (supports Konqueror, Mozilla/Netscape 'Gecko' variety browsersd, and Opera) and on your desktop.
-Cnik
Xine already has a Mozilla plugin, if you use the gxine interface. And it's 100% Linux/Unix, no emulation required.
Not to mention that it plays any multimedia format, including DVD, SVCD, DivX...
This would make us a step closer to being able to feed the open source streaming server.
If this already is possible from linux, feel free to enlighten me.
Quicktime work fine thru Wine, and even better thru Codeweavers Crossover Plugin which gve you quicktime in your web browsers too. I've been using it for well over a year now.
-Cnik
It uses mplayer to open video files, so anything that mplayer can open, LiVES will let you edit.
Apparently KDE decided to do with xine what Gnome wants to do with GStreamer: a multimedia player infrastructure. Want your foo-bar KDE/Gnome application to play DivX? Just make the appropriate calls to the xine/GStreamer API on your system.
GStreamer seems to be more ambitious towards video broadcast and stream video. But it's not quite ready yet for prime time (still feeling kinda alpha version).
OTOH, xine is already production quality, has a working player and started to develop a video editing infrastructure.
It will be interesting to watch how these projects evolve in the future. Both have interesting features, and have a promising look.
In Debian is basically:
apt-get install qt6codecs
If you have:
deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main
in your sources.list.
BTW: why the parent was moderated "funny"?
sgis ddo ekil t'nod i
Yes, that's the point! xine for KDE, and GStreamer for Gnome are trying to implement precisely the same idea: have a generic multimedia infrastructure, and let any arbitrary application to make calls to it if it wants to play an A/V file.
I agree, this is a far better approach than the monolithic player offered by other applications.
Would anyone want to make quicktime videos on linux when there are much better OPEN codecs and containers (xvid/vorbis for video and audio, and ogg or even avi for the container)? I mean, the quicktime container and it's codecs (sorenson etc) are some of the most proprietary, least-supported media formats in existance! (except maybe realmedia). There are no good, simple "user" players for quicktime on linux ("user" meaning the user doesn't have to compile a bleeding-edge mplayer or xine and somehow make his/her probably illegally-obtained win32 codec dlls work with it), and the quicktime player on windows is horrendously ugly, slow and feature-crippled compared to all the free/open media players (and even WMP).
The DMCA only applies to the USA. Other people around the world has the right to develop it.
The fact is that most people don't understand quicktime, and thats why we get all these useless posts that it is quicktime's fault that linux users can't play sorenson encoded video.
To all of the above posters saying things like "why QuickTime when {DivX | MPEG4 | Ogg Tarkin | AVI} is so much {better | smaller | easier | open} ?" I'll tell you two things:
1: When editing video you want the LEAST compression possible. BIG files are a PLUS. That's why this guy uses DV encoded files, it's the same compression done by his camera, so he loses nothing while capturing and editing.
2: QuickTime isn't a compression, not even a file format, it's a software architecture. When he picked his camera, the choice of compression was made for him (DV), and when he chose the NLE (Cinestream), the file format was fixed (mov, quicktime's native format)
This isn't about viewing video clips on the 'net, for that he'd reencode as MPEG4 after having his master tape.
-Kz-
It should be noted that Kino is only good for capturing/editing pure digital video streams.
Analog sources such as those supported by Video4Linux are not supported.
There is a V4L tab in Kino, but it is highly experimental.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
HeroineWarrior has a click-through GNU GPL v2 license agreement for their downloads. Do any of the lawyers here (do any lawyers even real slashdot??) know if that would help make the GPL more enforcable?
And Moderators, this isn't OT - Cinelerra is a video editing tool.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
I used Quicktime 4 as a porting layer to convert 7 man-years of Macintosh code to Windows 98. You can see some info and screenshots of the working application (a color pallette, and a layout for a school placement test)here.
This was a wild, unsupported, dumb, nervewracking adventure that taught me a lot about Quicktime (which has of course continued to grow and is may be a different cat with Mac OS X for all I know). When it worked well (when the libraries really existed, not just saying they were there) huge chunks of code would just start working which was also fun.
Quicktime for Windows brought a lot of the Macintosh toolbox calls, things you would think are part of the Mac OS, into Windows so you could call a huge number of them and they would work just like the Apple documentation said. I was able to use the Mac resource files after hacking some endian things and the Quicktime fonts looked much better than the Windows functions then too.
Anyway it was amazing how Quicktime appeared to be a trojan to put half the MacOS into Windows but I guess Quicktime needed it all. If it was rewritten to run on BSD maybe we could enjoy Quicktime as a programming paradigm in Linux too.
Since the software I was porting was a cross between Quark XPress and Adobe Illustrator (VXAStar, a layout program for "Shashoku" traditional analog printing press companies in Japan) it didn't need it but I even had a thing that could play movies in it. Quicktime is great because it was a whole integrated way of thinking about any kind of media, it was an API written by thoughtful people. So the API included things like knowledge about different color spaces, new audio codecs that might come out, and so on. So if your app would support Quicktime you could handle professional quality data (close to a megabyte per frame) or anything else.
I haven't done programming for Linux video or Quicktime recently either so I don't know and most likely things have changed though I still have a copy of some of heroinewarrior's first stuff :), so I don't mean to disparage anything that may be out there. But I was developing this software while in a small NLE studio, a guy who had built his own Mac-based finicky NLE suite with an external RAID array.
If you want to encode Sorenson for the web, we just need to be able to buy a Sorenson codec binary for linux.
If you want to do studio work you probably will have a standalone system which is only used for that, with maybe hard disks partitioned with big blocks. The Mac (Premiere) system I saw was immensely powerful, like a Quantum Paintbox you could do photoshop or work in other programs then render it to disk, the biggest problems were:
1) explaining to the customer what is possible, since you could do anything even just with AfterEffects, like creating clouds from nothing or rendering video in lots of layers.
2) finickiness (don't install anything else on that machine and even so it might crash sometimes.. this was an 860AV I believe),
3) you need to buy/steal a betamax deck (though we dreamed of going to DV then) and the RAID could only hold so much,
4) rendering time was quick usually but you still had to provide a couch for the customer to fall asleep on at points (when many layers were used). Also
5) You must use a very expensive, very fragile video board to get professional-quality video into the machine, just knowing all about them is a whole field of study and detective work.
6) from a project I did last year I can tell you that using tapes from unknown sources is sheer hell and inevitably involves lots of cable swapping and signal testing. If DVD regionality and PAL/SECAM encoding can be handled through software (say write a DVD at the end of the session, though most places will want Pro DV tapes or Beta.. digital betacam being almost nonexistent in Japan) then you may see studios putting Linux boxes in the corner of the room for the "just in case" when you really need it.
Now we seem to be there completely hardware-wise, but I doubt a linux software suite could be put together that could do as much yet (though maybe the film gimp would give AfterEffects a run for the money, I haven't tried it). It is completely conceivable that you could get pretty far with a few RAID arrays, a fast machine with tons of memory, and a pro DV deck. Maybe everyone is still buying avids but if analog starts working watch out!
As I'm writing this I am sitting on 20 hours of DVCAM tapes and thinking about how to get an editting system set up.. to produce a few professional-quality tapes for sale. At the moment I am thinking of getting a small pro DV deck and dumping them into a couple of hard disks first, then trying out the software mentioned in this post. If anyone has any recommendations (no special hardware, I'll just at the end either print to another DV or DVD and from there to a Beta deck at a lab) I'd be grateful.
Matt
Yeah, QuickTime's AVI support hasn't every been THAT good. The large file thing was fixed in 6.1, which is only out for MacOS X at this point.
My video compression blog
Kino is still missing the (in layman's terms) "parallel track" view of more than one video track that will let you to move stuff from one track to the other with the flick of the mouse; the problem is trying to do an "L"-cut (sound from frame A continues into frame B for a while) with Kino. Once that is taken care of, you will be able to do the most basic forms of editing with no problem.
This is still no match for the stupidest Windows programs out there -- video just isn't there yet on Linux -- but given that Cinellera crashes about once every ten minutes, Kino looks like our best hope so far to at least get something done.
Well, you can _almost_ do what you want. With Kino installed, you can plug in your DV cam and start editing away to your hearts content.
I don't know if it is possibly to add icons automagically, but I guess it would be. No idea how to do it though?
Mads Bondo Dydensborg
I've used zoom player (aka zplayer) a lot. It plays anything I throw at it, even weird stuff like SVCD's that WMP won't play.
It also lets you at the codec settins during playback, which is very useful.
- BBK
"Section 2.4.3.5 AWNS (Acceptor Wait for New Cycle State).
In AWNS the AH function indicates that it has received a
multiline message byte.
In AWNS the RFD message must be sent false and the DAC message
must be sent passive true.
The AH function must exit the AWNS and enter:
(1) The ANRS if DAV is false
(2) The AIDS if the ATN message is false and neither:
(a) The LADS is active
(b) Nor LACS is active"
-- from the IEEE Standard Digital Interface for
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