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Bush Orders Guidelines for Cyber-Warfare

Jeremiah writes "The pending Iraqi war promises to deliver quite the display of modern, smart technology well beyond what we saw in '91. President Bush recently ordered the development of rules for cyber engagement by the military. Beyond the numerous special forces on the ground like in Afganistan, the US will use soldiers in office chairs to disrupt Iraqi infrastructure."

91 of 526 comments (clear)

  1. An addition to the Geneva connection... by Da+Fokka · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...you have to stop the DDOS when you get the 'destination unreachable'

    1. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by tekunokurato · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, it's probably not goint to be distributed, but it'd be great if there were international sanctions placed on cyber-warfare methods. Somehow, though, I doubt our government will be that effective, and that Iraq will have enough connected systems to really do any good.

    2. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...the Geneva convention...

      Seems to me that attacks aimed primarily at a civilian population, like depriving the Iraqi people of their porn fix, would be explicitly banned by the Geneva convention.

    3. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I doubt <snip> that Iraq will have enough connected systems to really do any good.

      That's because we have been DOSing them for the last ten years already. A DOS from a ping flood or an air strike has pretty much the same effect, although it's a bit easier to reboot a crashed server than try to dig it out of the crater.

    4. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by Kirijini · · Score: 5, Informative

      On the Contrary, Iraq has "largest and most efficient food-distribution system of its kind in the world... employing a massive network of trucks, computers, warehouses and neighborhood distributors to provide basic sustenance for every Iraqi." This is from the Washington Post.

      If Iraq uses a huge, intricate computer system to distribute food, you don't think they'd also use it for military purposes? I think, rather, that a computerized attack would be very effective.

      Especially if they use Windows.

    5. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by Corvaith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the first I've heard of this, and it does raise some troubling questions. The Iraqi leadership has always been painted as fundamentally uncaring about their people--and yet, they've taken the time to develop a system specifically to make sure that everyone is fed, something we can't even do here?

      At the very least, it explains why the people support Saddam Hussein--if we come in and take over, I somehow doubt we're going to be nearly as concerned with making sure that people have food and other basic necessities.

    6. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by milo_Gwalthny · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course, if they are using Windows, we could easily cripple their entire country by having Microsoft do a full-scale software license audit. That would keep most of their government personnel tied up for months, at least. Much more effective than weapons inspectors. Plus, what are the chances they are actually complying?

      --
      Milo
    7. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A centralized, computerized system that controls food distribution also can control who *doesn't* get fed. It's a dictatorship and every facet of daily life is one more lever to control the populace.

    8. Re:An addition to the Geneva connection... by EugeneK · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the article :
      "Iraqi exile groups have accused the government of withholding food from political opponents and rewarding loyalists with extra rations. But Torben Due, the senior U.N. World Food Program official here, said his organization, which has conducted more than 1 million inspections of the system since the oil-for-food arrangement was enacted, has uncovered no significant evidence of fraud or favoritism."

  2. Curious by KoolDude · · Score: 2, Funny


    ...the US will use soldiers in office chairs to disrupt Iraqi infrastructure...

    Is Kevin Mitnick getting one of those chairs ? ;)

    --
    getSexySig(); /* returns sexy signature */
    1. Re:Curious by mmol_6453 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of the tools a cracker uses is social engineering. And unless he can speak fluent, unaccented Arabic, he won't be able to directly use that tool.

      Of course, there could be a separate team for that. But I suspect a strict government like Iraq has paperwork for everything. And inquisitions for those who forget their paperwork.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
    2. Re:Curious by Kelt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IF he is, the gov't wouldn't tell us... you think they're mature enough to swallow their pride and say, 'oh, you know that 'bad for america' thing we spouted for a while? well, now he is good for america...'

      however, his spirit is definitely in those chairs... I am sure No Such Agency has recruited a small army of hackers/crackers/deviant engineers that all have learned from or been inspired by Kevin, 2600 and all the organizations that the gov't watches regularly...

      so, if his physical being is not there, I am sure many of his tools and his soul are partially there...

      -Kelt

      --
      My intelligence insults itself.
    3. Re:Curious by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While Bush and his cronies who probably have VCRs flashing twelve make rules about how the military will use high tech whizbangs, our enemies plot how to take advantage of how dependent we are on those high tech whizbangs. They can use something as simple as a box cutter, or dynamite strapped to a donkey.

      --
      How ya like dat?
    4. Re:Curious by fain0v · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Is Kevin Mitnick getting one of those chairs ?"

      Only if you mean the chair that is set in front of a tribual for prosecuting cyber war criminals.

      "There are questions about collateral damage," Clarke said. As an example, he cited the possibility that a computer attack on an electric power grid, intended to pull the plug on military facilities, might end up turning off electricity to hospitals on the same network.

      Who knows, the government might need a scapegoat.

    5. Re:Curious by stanmann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, we have a president, who is smart enough to know that he doesn't know everything, and therefore has surrounded himself with specialists he trusts to not lie to him, and to give him advice on subjects of importance. So, it would be logical to guess that those drafting (vs those signing/championing) the guidelines would know the tech.

      --
      Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  3. I Like How the Article Begins... by Poeir · · Score: 5, Funny

    "President Bush has signed a secret directive ordering the government to develop..."

    Not so secret any more, is it?

    --
    Sigs are like bumper stickers.
    1. Re:I Like How the Article Begins... by rutledjw · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever read, I don't blame you for posting as an AC. Even your beloved Democrats have done NOTHING to stem the flow of H1B. Understand? NOTHING.

      The issue is that as much as people bitch and complain, the US is turning out fewer and fewer college grads with engineering degrees every year. This was true even during the .com bubble when any clown who could correctly spell Java was given multiple offers.

      Further, I was unemployed and I DO support him. I may not agree with everything he does, but he has taken decisive action to stop terrorism and attempt to get this economy going. Has he been successful? Yes and no, we haven't had any more attacks and tax cuts (for whomever) is becoming one of the ONLY ways we're going to get the economy going again. Greenspan can only drop the interest rates so low...

      --

      Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    2. Re:I Like How the Article Begins... by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This comment wasn't insightful at all...
      The previous poster complained about Bush. He said nothing to support the Democrats, yet you accuse him of this. Being anti-Bush does not automatically make someone a Democrat lover. I've heard of many people who are Republicans but are very unhappy with Bush; would you call them Democrat lovers too?

      As for college grads with engineering degrees, there's a good reason for that. Kids have been growing up seeing what a crappy profession engineering is, with long, hard hours, pointy-haired bosses, mediocre pay, and worst of all a very short career span (and getting shorter), and realizing that contrary to all the big companies' efforts to brainwash them into taking this career path, it's not a smart move. So they're going into other fields. Why spend 5+ years, go $50k into debt, and not have any time at all to enjoy college when you're there, just to get out, work 80-hour weeks, and get laid off as soon as the economy turns sour or the company decides to open a development center in Bangalore?

      As far as I'm concerned, American companies shouldn't be allowed to hire H1B's, and shouldn't be allowed to open development centers in 3rd world countries (or else they should be treated as foreign companies and heavily tariffed). If that means they go down the tubes, too bad; they made their beds, now they should sleep in them.

      Tax cuts for the rich aren't going to get the economy going. Rich people don't spend their money, especially when the economy is poor.

    3. Re:I Like How the Article Begins... by rutledjw · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Are you kidding? Computer Eng degree, 4 years of college, little debt, I played rugby and was in a fraternity. I've had long work-weeks, but mostly about 40 hours and my pay is certianly higher than most of the people I went to school with. Crappy bosses are ubiquitous, as are layoffs. Career path? Yeah, I'm looking to get into mgmt or something new. Not because I HAVE to, because I'm looking for something new.

      Democrat comment? Fine, whatever. NOBODY has tried to curtail H1Bs. For the very reason I stated.

      Tax cuts for the rich aren't going to get the economy going. Rich people don't spend their money, especially when the economy is poor

      The rich pay the VAST majority of taxes. Increasing disposable income will help stimulate the economy. This is econ 101 stuff, you have nothing to back your statements about "rich people don't spend their money". That is totally absurd. How do they buy those oversized houses and expensive cars? Magic?

      --

      Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    4. Re:I Like How the Article Begins... by UncleGizmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's only page 1 of econ 101 stuff. I'm sure in your statistics classes, you learned about how to look at numbers in different ways. On a pure dollar basis, the rich pay the majority of taxes. But as a percentage of money they earn, it's much more even across income levels [IIRC, the NYT had an article on this recently, although I'm too lazy to look it up].

      But even if you want to complain that you pay too much to live in the greatest country in the world, the 'rich' only make up 1% [or 5%, depending on your definition] of the population. So, let's go back to econ 101: We live in a service economy. To stimulate it, you don't give breaks to a small percentage of people [the ones who already have a level of disposable income, btw], you give it to a large percentage - those who don't have as much disposable income - so they can go to the movies, and go out to eat once in awhile, etc. Our economy thrives on large numbers of small consumer transactions, not the other way around.

      You're making the wrong argument anyway. Tax cuts do not stimulate our economy...JOB SECURITY does. When people know their job is going to be there tomorrow, they are less concerned about putting something on the ol' credit card. That's why during the bubble [when everyone had tons of money, and infinite upside, remember?], the amount of personal debt was also higher than ever. Even those of us who weren't making the big bucks 'knew' we could pay off our debt tomorrow, because jobs were plentiful - a source of income was virtually guaranteed.

      --
      Who put this thing together? Me, that's who.
    5. Re:I Like How the Article Begins... by dbrutus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On a dollar basis, the rich will end up paying a higher percentage of taxes paid with the Bush plan than with the current system. The benefit will be that they'll end up with so much benefit from the extra economic growth that their after tax income will go up.

      The fact is that double taxation of dividends leads to bad business decisions that screw over employees in all sorts of ways, not least of which is taking that retained cash and buying up other firms, throwing out 'redundant' workers in the process. If it were equally profitable to give the shareholders back their money instead of management empire building, I'm sure that a lot of shareholders would insist on dividends which many would plow right back into investing in other ventures.

      The best job security is 3% unemployment and we're only going to get there by freeing up capital to create more and more jobs.

  4. My question... by mmol_6453 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are these going to apply to United States citizens?

    Are these going to apply to people operating in the US?

    Are the info-soldiers within the US?

    Are these going to be subject to constitutional limitations?

    --
    What's this Submit thingy do?
    1. Re:My question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you karma whoring from within the US?

    2. Re:My question... by Rick.C · · Score: 3, Funny
      Are the info-soldiers within the US?

      Mom: Son, why are you sitting at your computer dressed in camo?

      Son: Because I'm hacking into Al-Iraqui-Pr0n and the Geneva Convention states that soldiers who aren't in uniform can be shot as spys."

      --
      You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
      "Math in a song is good."-Linford
    3. Re:My question... by TheCaptain · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah...we outsourced it to India.

    4. Re:My question... by cgenman · · Score: 5, Funny
      Are these going to apply to United States citizens?

      Are these going to apply to people operating in the US?

      Are the info-soldiers within the US?

      Are these going to be subject to constitutional limitations?

      Are they taking resumes?

  5. One question: by autocracy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Civilian involvement? Letters of marque and reprisal have been banned by international treaty, but those traditionally apply to physical battle. Will the script kiddies rain on Iraq?

    --
    SIG: HUP
    1. Re:One question: by autocracy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, I'd like to clarify this a bit: letters of marque and reprisal are noted in the Constitution saying the government may issue them. This article references them and explains things decently enough. Unknown to the author's article, the Declaration of Paris was signed by the United States, and in short nullifies our ability to issues letters of marque and reprisal. However, this was all in reference to maritime war law... nothing was noted that could be construed to offer protection, except perhaps against civilian networks.

      --
      SIG: HUP
  6. Human rights by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Funny

    Please, don't give iraquis mail addresses to all spammers around the world, that will hurt them badly, but will be very cruel.

  7. Hey??? by Bendebecker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why stop at just having the military conducting these attacks? I am sure there are vast numbers of us on the Internet that would be perfectly willing to sacrifice our time and bandwidth on DDoS attacks against every box in Iraq. There are certainly plenty of us that would be more than happy to hack into Saddam's computer networks. As Americans, we should all be allowed to do our part.

    --
    There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
    most of us won't be able to afford it.
    -- Lemmy
  8. One can only hope by blindcoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    that this "Elite Hacker Force" will be shut down after Bush is done with his war.

    But somehow I can't believe that. After all it's quite a useful "tool" for making a point when talking with Ambassadors from foreign countries...

    --
    See my blog for my free opinions.
  9. What good would this do against Iraq? by PFactor · · Score: 2, Funny

    They have what, a dozen computers?

    Unless we have to attack Microsoft (and the day is coming, I promise you!), this order isn't really all that useful.

    --
    Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
    1. Re:What good would this do against Iraq? by Mantrid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually don't they have illegally imported Playstation 2 super computers??

  10. Something Awful Wasnt Far Off!! by LordYUK · · Score: 5, Funny

    From todays SomethingAwful.com post... I take no credit, other than shameless cut and paste!

    Operation: Winnuke

    Operational Plan: One of the most vulnerable areas of Iraq is its weak technological infrastructure. Still largely in a state of disorder from the constant US and British bombing campaign against Iraqi communications centers, the Iraqi computer network is vulnerable to attack. One US plan calls for a multi-phase operation conducted largely within the framework of the recently unveiled International Community Messenger. This computer system allows world leaders to communicate one-on-one over the Internet. Phase one of the operation will involve a coordinated effort by George W. Bush to get all of the world leaders supporting a war against Iraq online at the same time. He will tell them all to start innocuous conversations with Iraq and that when they see the warning level of Iraq rising on their contact list they are to begin warning Iraq until the nation is logged out of the Messenger service. If executed properly phase one will prevent Iraq from rallying sympathetic nations to its cause after phase two has struck.

    Phase two will begin with the United States beginning a conversation with Iraq over trivial things. At some point during the conversation the US will send Iraq a seemingly harmless video file that actually contains an annoying virus script that will deadlock the Iraqi computer system, making it both difficult and embarrassing to use. As mentioned, before Iraq can retaliate or request aid allies of the United States will warn Iraq until it is temporarily banned from the service. To help you better understand how this operation will go down we have modeled it using advanced computer technology called "Microsoft Notepad".

    US_of_A[NATO] Hey d00d, what's up?
    _+Iraq[AoE]+_ not 2 much fag
    _+Iraq[AoE]+_ u got the UN resolution u want me to sign lol
    US_of_A[NATO] yeah man, check this out 1st, it's a krad video of this crazy Koreen kids dancing
    US_of_A[NATO] wants to send you the file Dance_Routine(Funny!).wmv.vbs.
    _+Iraq[AoE]+_ ok its downloadin
    US_of_A[NATO] cool when its done run it
    _+Iraq[AoE]+_ ok
    _+Iraq[AoE]+_ WTF its opening gay pron popups
    US_of_A[NATO] pwned
    You have warned the user US_of_A[NATO]
    You have been warned by the user US_of_A[NATO] Warning Level is 10%
    You have been warned by the user UK[NATO] Warning Level is 25%
    You have been warned by the user Spizzain[NATO] Warning Level is 50%
    You have been warned by the user iTaLy[NATO] Warning Level is 75%
    You have been warned by the user Canada[420TreesHitter][NATO] Warning Level is 100%
    ***You are being temporarily logged out of International Community Messenger***

    After this Iraq's computer and communication infrastructure will be isolated from the world community and Iraq will be vulnerable to further offensive operations.

    Possible Threats: North Korea is constantly online and attempting to send the United States viruses through ICM. Technical specialists are usually able to persuade to the president not to open "Sexyjapaneselass_Vs_Playboy.scr". However, President Bush has already infected some 400 government computers with various e-mail and ICM viruses, and if alone may do so again. In the right North Korean hands this could compromise the security of the entire operation.

    Estimated Casualties: Pretty much everyone in Iraq's tech-sector is expected to be summarily executed by Saddam if this plan works. Other than that no casualties are expected.

    --
    This is my sig. Its pathetic.
    1. Re:Something Awful Wasnt Far Off!! by Rojo^ · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It bothers me that you think the U.S. is going to war for oil. Ernie at Ernie's House of Whoopass sums it up best.
      I speak now to the clueless imbeciles who say, "Iraw doesn't have any weapons of mass destruction -- that's why the US can't produce any proof that they do!" Listen closely now, because I'm only going to say this one time. Ya ready?

      You stupid fuck.

      Yeah produce proof for the world to see, that's what we need to do. That'd kind of shortsighted thinking has gotten our asses into hot water before, and if we make the same mistake here, we'll just be setting ourselves up for more devastating terrorist attacks in the future. Hey, wanna know the last time the US was forced into revealing secret evidence just to win the world opinion? After the bombing of the American and Israeli embassies in Manila back in 1994, we had to reveal taped phone conversations to support the indictment of the bombers. So classified recordings of conversations between Osama and his dipshit followers saying things like, "Hell yeah we did it", along with the knowledge that the US had these advanced eavesdropping capabilities, were laid bare for the scrutinizing eyes of the world, both friend and foe alike.

      You see Osama was using encrypted satellite phones which were supposedly 100% secure and impervous to electronic eavesdropping -- probably the only reason he felt comfortable enough to openly admit this connections to the planning and execution of the bombings. And until the tapes were released he didn't know that US surveillance could tap into his secure phones, so he thought he was safe and discussed his business without reservation. So guess what? Ever since then we haven't been able to eavesdrop on any of his phone conversations, because there haven't been any. Knowing his phones were compromised, he abandoned them in favor of "word to ear" communications and in doing so took away one of our best abilities to defend against future terror attacks.

      If the secure phone tapping advantage wasn't given up, would we have had enough of a warning to prevent Sept 11th? Well, it's kind of a stretch, but I suppose it's certainly conceivable. We didn't have any warning about the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania back in 1998. Or the USS Cole bombings that killed 17 sailors just three years ago. Both of which were the handiwork of Osama and his Al Queda brethren.

      So now we are forced to publicly show evidence on Iraq, and potentially lose another advantage in the war of information, all to appease the peaceniks who say there's no reason to invade Iraq. Kids, I'm here to tell ya the proof is there. We ain't getting all dressed up for this because some balloonheads think G.W. has a score to settle for his pappy, we're getting dressed up because there's a reason. I just hope we don't have to sell our souls to the devil again, just so the fucking French and the rest of the Europeans don't have to sneer when they say "Bah, American cowboys."
      For the record, we aren't going to war. We haven't been in a war since WW2. This is a police action, enforcing maybe not international law, but justice nonetheless. Saddam has lied about the existence of weapons of mass destruction, been consistently evasive and obstinate in his compliance with U.N. inspectors, and even gone so far as to threaten to use his non-existant weapons on the U.S.

      I've rambled enough about this. Someone else take over. Time for a smoke break.
      --
      <:
  11. I hope for the sake of your boys ... by torpor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... they're prepared to engage in one mother of an immoral battle, and have said their prayers, kissed their girls, and balanced their books. War in Iraq is *not* going to be pretty for you guys.

    The US is now what Germany was in the 30's... off to fight its merry war with 'justifiable cause'.

    Don't you Americans realize that the UN was *made* to prevent countries like yours from abusing their power?

    That this war is now being trivialized into some sort of 'happy meme' worthy of idle discussion by tech nerds in the context of some sci-fi-turned-reality 'cyberwar' is really disturbing.

    If globalization, McDonalds, Britney and all the other wonderful machinations of The American Way didn't turn me off your crappy country, then the robotic nature of its citizens kowtowing to the propaganda machine being operated by King George Bush II definitely is ...

    I don't care if there are guidelines for 'cyberwar against Iraq' being published... This war is NONSENSE!!

    --
    ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    1. Re:I hope for the sake of your boys ... by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What can you do? We fought. We screamed. We protested. But we're still being lead by a person utterly unable to understand even the most obvious results of his actions. Don't equate the desires of the American people with the decisions of its leaders. We're trapped in this little box, and we're being taken for a ride. We trivialize because the weight of the situation is too great and the inability to actualize so apparent that it is our only emotional defense. But we don't parrot the propaganda machine... I have yet to speak to anyone on the streets who has more than a passing agreement with the idea that going to war is a good idea.

      If you believe the American people are ready to go to war again and die in Iraq you have been listening to too much of our government's propaganda. They're doing it, by and large, without our support.

      If you can convince the U.N. to stop us, then please, for the good of the American people, stop our leaders. They are so in tuned with the reality of warfare that they think this can be ended by cutting off the enemy's shell access. Hundreds of thousands of people are going to die, and they haven't the slightest clue.

      I don't know what else we can do besides a 100,000 person march and widespread civil disobedience. All that I can think of is if the UN passed a resolution requiring all memberstates to get an explicit UN backing for all non-defensive military maneuvering, then backed that up with a real coalition army. Unless there is some sort of enforcement on the UN's side, I can't see how they can enforce order.

    2. Re:I hope for the sake of your boys ... by aengblom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *** Response to off topic post mod us both down ;-)***
      *** Err, I think we're flame bait too ***
      War in Iraq is *not* going to be pretty for you guys.

      No shit. It's going to be damn ugly. This is no joy ride--it's being done very important reasons.

      The US is now what Germany was in the 30's... off to fight its merry war with 'justifiable cause'.

      And France is playing--well France. If you are against war in total that's fine. But the U.S. is not going to war to expand its borders. It's not going for oil (we could ask Hussein to open the floodgates and out it would come.)

      Don't you Americans realize that the UN was *made* to prevent countries like yours from abusing their power?
      Uh, no. The U.N. was developed to prevent World Wars. To allow a stage in which countries could weigh in politically, without resorting to war. But Hussein has shown utter contempt for this process. He HAS chemical and biological weapons (which he agreed NOT to have after Persian Gulf). He has kicked out inspectors and if one plays softie to Hussein--you'll lose.

      That this war is now being trivialized into some sort of 'happy meme' worthy of idle discussion by tech nerds in the context of some sci-fi-turned-reality 'cyberwar' is really disturbing.

      Please. The development of using computers in war *is* a big story. But you won't see much of this story next week. It's one point in the storyline. If you RTFA you'll also noticed that they worry that a cyber attack that took out a power supply could cut power to hospitals too. In other words, it could do more harm to people.

      If globalization, McDonalds, Britney and all the other wonderful machinations of The American Way didn't turn me off your crappy country, then the robotic nature of its citizens kowtowing to the propaganda machine being operated by King George Bush II definitely is ...

      Snore. Globalization may have been an American "innovation", but Europe and Japan are equally involved. If people didn't LIKE those things, they wouldn't buy them. I'm American and I don't.

      I don't care if there are guidelines for 'cyberwar against Iraq' being published... This war is NONSENSE!!

      Then what SHOULD we do? Go along with the European line? That would have resulted in Hussein continuing his weapon's program WITHOUT inspectors. Inspectors are only there because Bush threatened war. Here's your choice. Allow Hussein to do what he wants? Or, be willing to fight to keep him from developing these weapons? And these weapons include nukes.

      Anyway these guidelines aren't about THIS war. They're about any and all future wars. Which happens to include this war.

      Oh yeah... and since you appear to be from Germany, I wanted to say I'm Ok with yall be pacifist. Really! ;-)

      --


      So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
    3. Re:I hope for the sake of your boys ... by KingJoshi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So if people disagree with you, they're kowtowing to propaganda, but if they agree with you, then they're smart, thinking individuals? Have you considered that you could've fallen to propaganda while the other side are smart thinking individuals?

      In reality, it's not a binary situation. Iraq has deceived the U.N. for over a decade. They do have chemical and biological weapons. The degree of cooperation with Al Queda and progress of nuclear weapons is debatable. One extreme wants to go to war as quickly as possible and remove Saddam and install American leadership. Another extreme wants to avoid war at all costs and will let Saddam get away with anything.

      Most are inbetween. They know there is compelling evidence, but not sure if it's enough to start war now or if all the options have been tried. However, most know that unless Saddam truely cooperates, containment from nuclear weapons will not work. North Korea is close or already has them and the Clinton Administration had a framework to prevent that. Saddam is more ruthless and not as desperate for aid as the North Koreans. How much effort and how many deceptions are the Germans, French and others willing to put up with before they also say, okay, Saddam, you've had enough chances?

      I don't like Bush and disagree with most of his policies. I don't know if war is called for right now and enough options have been covered. But each passing day, Saddam continues to defy the world and the world just takes it. The U.N. is supposed to prevent that too.

      --
      In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
  12. Shrub needs to learn what a computer is, first. by Safety+Cap · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From the article:
    By penetrating computer systems that control the communications, transportation, energy and other basic services in a country, cyber-weapons can have serious cascading effects, disrupting not only military operations but civilian life.
    Okay, you're assuming that other less-developed countries have the same computer infrastructure that we do. What's next? We distrupt the one working computer in Somalia?

    The only countries this will work against are those that are like the US, and sorry, but despite our ethnocentric view of the world, most countries are not us except Canada and the UK (didn't turning on one's allies work for Hitler?).

    This idea is not new. When the military staged a wargame where they tried this very same thing, they got their arse handed to them in a brown paper sack:

    The officers refereeing the wargame told him that U.S. electronic warfare planes had zapped his microwave communications systems. "You're going to have to use cellphones and satellite phones now, they told me. I said no, no, no - we're going to use motorcycle messengers and make announcements from the mosques," [Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper, who played the role of Saddam Hussein] says. "But they refused to accept that we'd do anything they wouldn't do in the west.
    --
    Yeah, right.
    1. Re:Shrub needs to learn what a computer is, first. by qoncept · · Score: 2, Insightful
      From unknowncountry.com,

      Eventually, Van Riper got so fed up with all this cheating that he refused to play anymore.

      Notice how the two credits are both British? The whole article lacks a, uh, how should I say, sense of authenticity. Maybe an interesting read, but so was this.

      Lieutenant General Van Riper (read: LtGen = O-9, second highest rank he can attain = he knows how to make himself look good + actually does) "refused to play" ? Please. By refusing to play, especially in the army, he's risking not only his career, but his retirement (and at LtGen, he's almost certainly gotten his 20 years in), prison (especially if its as high scale and high profile of an exercise as this article makes it seem) and eventually a dishonorable discharge that'd make it hard for him to get another job anywhere.

      It's ridiculous to think that Iraq could win a war against the US. In the first 12 hours of the Gulf War, Iraq's chances of winning were gone. In 10 years, things have changed, but not that much. Iraq does potentially have the ability to hurt us (through casualties, if hey have any of these weapons of mass destruction we've heard so much about), but other than that, what do you think they could do? They can't even fly planes in the southern half of their country, let alone far enough to do anything to 1) a US military base, or even 2) one of the regional bases US forces are using.

      That said, it'd be nice if something happened to prevent a war altogether.

      --
      Whale
  13. paah by zozzi · · Score: 3, Funny
    Just get Kevin and give him a prison phone. He'll do everything from it. His mouth will even function like a modem traslating all those ones and zeros....

    --
    ---
  14. Preparing to fight which war, exactly? by Doctor+Hu · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is it just me, or is what used to be called the military-industrial complex's lobbeying for funds to persue 'cool' research areas undermining the country's ability to make appropriate military responses to novel threats? Here we are, less than 18 months after the carefully low-tech attacks of 9/11, busy working on all sorts of neat cyberwar and domestic datamining tools that aren't going to matter a toss to a bunch of fanatics holed up in a cave somewhere, or even to an economy like Iraq's that's already been largely put back to early 20th-century levels.

    Not trolling, just worried.

  15. Too sad for Mr. Bush ... by borgdows · · Score: 2, Funny

    Iraq is running Linux!

  16. Re:I hope for the sake of our boys by dvdeug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    how is Taco going to feel when he reads about a Chinook full of young Americans that got shot down from a SAM battery that could not be hacked and disabled because Achmed reads Slashdot,

    Right. The Iraq government can afford to run a net connection to every SAM battery, and is stupid enough to leave it open to the Internet. Even societies that can afford to network their military, don't connect the Internet to internal systems - it's just stupid. The most secure connection is none at all, and everyone knows that.

    I'm sure it's an unpopular view amongst the freedom of IP at all costs crowd that's common here, but maybe for the duration of the Iraqi conflict, we can stop posting exploit and bug notifications, at least until the US has installed a nascent capitalist, western ideologued democracy in Iraq.

    I didn't realize we were planning on slaughtering all the Iraqs and colonizing the country. That, of course, is about the only way we're going to get a "western ideologued" society in Iraq. What do you think the odds are that we can even get some sort of stable democracy going - historically, "our son of a bitch" governments have been common - and it's questionable whether you can just stick a democracy in a country that has no concept of one and have it thrive.

  17. Re:I hope for the sake of our boys by GMontag · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the last Gulf War the air defenses were networked, including key elements of their radar network.

    That was, reportedly, reduced by allowing a contraban printer to "slip through" blockades on goods to Iraq. The printer had a virus that spread through the air defense network.

    IIRC this happened in the last days before the bombing campaign began.

    It was widely reported after the war, on Nightline and I think Bob Woodward mentioned it in hos book "The Commaders" too. I have not heard if it has been verified beyond that since.

  18. Re:I hope for the sake of our boys by iiioxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm sure it's an unpopular view amongst the freedom of IP at all costs crowd that's common here, but maybe for the duration of the Iraqi conflict, we can stop posting exploit and bug notifications, at least until the US has installed a nascent capitalist, western ideologued democracy in Iraq.

    Flip the issue around and see if your suggestion makes any sense:

    For the duration of the war, let's refrain from posting notices of vulnerabilities and exploits so that sysadmins in places other than Iraq can't keep their systems properly defended from cyber-terrorists who are sympathetic to the Iraqi cause (or are simply anti-American).

    Makes no sense, right? Withholding vulnerability information is far more likely to adversely affect civilian and public service networks in the US and supporting nations than the Iraqi military/industrial complex.

  19. Overheard in the Oval Office by pubjames · · Score: 4, Funny

    Overheard in the Oval Office:

    Bush: Hey, I've just had a great idea! Why don't we attack Iraq over the Inter-net!

    Advisor: I'm not sure what you mean, Mr President.

    Bush: Well, couldn't we infect Saddam with one of those Inter-net viruses, for example? We could use our prowess in genetical engineering and nanu-technology to genetically infect Saddam with a deadly Inter-net virus! Whaddya think?

    Advisor: Erm... I'm speechless, Sir.

    Bush: Write some guidelines around those ideas, will ya?

    Advisor: Very well sir. Do you mind if I make some minor modifications, sir?

    Bush: Do whatever you think is necessary. We make a great team don't we?

    Bush: Erm, yes sir. Isn't it about time for your nap now Mr President?

  20. The first step to war. by cgenman · · Score: 3, Funny

    So... the first step in our war is to send the Geek Corps to Iraq to teach everyone how to use computers. Then we sick SUN on them to convince them to upgrade to mission-critical workstations and servers. While we do that, we use old equipment to get individuals and businesses stuck on the .doc format. Finally, we convince Saddam to consolidate his technological resources under XP, .NET, and Office.

    At which point, why do we have to invade at all? Microsoft can just run their government like they do ours.

  21. Inevitable - and not the only issue by Badgerman · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Something like this is inevitable, really. I'm sort of surprised it didn't come up a few years ago.

    However, there are other questions this brings up:
    • What are the cyber-warfare plans of OTHER countries? Is America in the lead on getting organized on this?
    • What will the reaction be to this plan?
    • Computer technology involves at such an insane rate, how much planning can you do?
    • Will this plan involve current computer companies?
    • Where will Open Source fit into this? (I'm serious here, OS's growing prominence makes it important)


    Food for thought.
    --
    "The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
  22. So can we expect accidental DoSing? by mattbot+5000 · · Score: 2, Funny

    So can we now expect accidental hacking of the Chinese embassy, Canadian soldiers, and the occasional civilian wedding to occur in conjunction with the more traditional (but increasingly obsolete) accidental smart bombing?

  23. Cyber-warfare? by ceeam · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do you guys want to defeat Sadam in CounterStrike or what?

  24. Get Your Mercenaries Here! by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can just see the latest edition of "Soldier of Fortune" with advertisements in the back for "733t h4Xor5" to DDOS the 8 servers that comprise the Iraqi Ministry of Disinformation.

    They'll probably have a lurid cover photo showing "actual damage done" to such a server.

    "Eeewww - look at the smoking wires just hanging out of the CD drive bay!"

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  25. story i heard from a guy here in DC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    right after the Iraqis invaded kuwait in 90, the US got a french company that was supplying printers to Iraq to put a chip in that we supplied. The chip had a receiver that basically allowed us to remotely take out their networks using the printers attached to it.

  26. Quick Fix by plaidlad · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just have Gates send the Iraqis a complementary set of licenses for MS products... within a couple of days, the problem will solve itself...

    --
    "Of course I'm wrong... That's how I get to 'right'." - Gil Grissom
  27. My, You ARE parochial, aren't you. by wiredog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most countries have electronic switching systems and microwave links for the phone service. Those were targets that NATO hit in Serbia several years ago, and in Iraq in 1991. Even Afghanistan had some. Russia uses microwave links. China also. Actually, it's probably only countries like Somalia, which have almost no communications infrastructure, that wouldn't be vulnerable.

    1. Re:My, You ARE parochial, aren't you. by JahToasted · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think you missed the point... When the Microwave links were DESTROYED by bombing, the team representing Iraq was expected to use cell phones instead (which would be intercepted). But after the microwave links were destroyed, they used low tech methods, like motorcycle couriers. The Team representing the US forces lost the wargame, for this and other reasons.

      Kinda reminds me of the simpsons episodes where the air force had to intercept the wright brother's plane, but couldn't because it was moving too slow. The US has spent the last half a century preparing for a war against a technologically advanced superpower, they are totally unprepared for fighting against WWI level tech.

  28. US thinks technology = strategy by Gallowglass · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it just me, or does anyone else see a pattern in US strategic thinking along the lines of "We have bigger and better technology/supply lines/bombs, and that will make final victory inevitable." I don't intend to argue that logistics are not an essential part of military planning, nor that technological advantages don't give an edge. But there seems to be a wide spread feeling in the US government that because they are the biggest guy on the block, they will inevitably win.

    With the greatest respect, cod's wallop!

    The American high command seems to be infected with this attitude as well. It seems to me that much (if not most or all) of the talk from the US about how the US will win is posited on the massive technological/logistical superiority of America. But far more important is strategy and tactics. (See Wellington's Peninsular campaign to see an example of how superior strategy and tactics can defeat a much larger army.)

    There is some evidence that much of the US military is still unwilling to be flexible in its tactical/strategic thinking. See this article in The Guardian for a insightful analysis of a recent, huge US military exercis - in which the American side *lost* and the "Red" (read Iraqi) side won.

    I'm a Canadian and the reek of hubris from across the 49th parallel is stunning!

  29. Now remember who's writing this... by IPFreely · · Score: 4, Insightful
    With Bush and co writing it, it will probably work a lot like this:

    1. We (the Bush administration) can do anything we want to anyone else.
    2. Noone can not do anything at all to us (the Bush administration).
    3. Americans, including American companies, can do anything they want to any foreign country, company or person.
    4. No foreign country, company or person can do anything to any american person or company.

    There, that sounds about right.

    --
    There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
    1. Re:Now remember who's writing this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      YUO AER TEH FUKEN BOMB.

      man i loev reeding palitical nanalysus liek thsi,., YA D000D! BSuH si scarey becase he take all our sival LBIERTY's away. i cnat evan critasiez teh govarmant anymoare....

    2. Re:Now remember who's writing this... by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IPFreely wrote:

      > With Bush and co writing it, it will probably work a lot like this:
      >
      > 1. We (the Bush administration) can do anything we want to anyone else.
      > 2. Noone can not do anything at all to us (the Bush administration).
      > 3. Americans, including American companies, can do anything they want to any foreign country, company or person.
      > 4. No foreign country, company or person can do anything to any american person or company.

      Sadly, we are America, land of the free and home of the brave, no longer.

      Now, we are Rolithica, land of the corrupt and home of the greedy. We are the world's greatest superpower, and none can defeat our nuclear might.

      No, there is one power greater: Great Mothra, the invincible Goddess of Peace! Our greatest weapons are like the bite of a mosquito to her. She is coming to rescue her fairies: Ladies Liberty and Justice.

      "The path of peace is yours to discover for eternity."
      Japanese version of "Mothra" (1961)

    3. Re:Now remember who's writing this... by J0ey4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know what is more disheartening, the fact that this was the best excuse for political debate you could come up with that or the fact that people are actually modding it up as "Insightful".

      Saddam is _not_ going to disarm peacefully. All the UN circus acts and smoke shows are not going to change that fact. We (US and the coalition of 20+ countries that support us) _are_ going to war. Irregardless of whether or not you and I agree over that course of action, you have to agree that _any_ nonviolent attacks (CYBER) that will shut down radar installtions and missile batteries, or otherwise protect our soldiers lives has merit.

      President Bush is being responsible in the fact that he recognizes that if we are to engage in a new form of warfare, we should first draw up the rules of engagement.

      I never cease to be amazed at the overwhelmingly liberal bias on this website. Especially considering all the great things for technology like the DMCA that President Clinton did for us.

      I welcome intelligent, thought-out political debate, the freedom of speech to do that that is what make America great. People posting nonsensical, sophmorish rubbish like this and getting modded up as "Insightful" is what makes Slashdot so sad.

      sigh....now I will probably get modded as a troll or flamebait....guess that's life

    4. Re:Now remember who's writing this... by eglamkowski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's interesting to note that many of those 20+ countries supporting us are from eastern europe. Probably trying to score brownie points with the USA :-)

      But then, who really cares about French opposition? I mean, they didn't bother to go to the UN or the international community themselves before intervening in the Ivory Coast, they just unilateraly sent troops there to protect their interests. Nobody is criticizing the French over this, or pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of it vis-a-vis their opposition to US action in Iraq. "Do as I say, not as I do." Whatever.

      I'm quite divided on the Iraq war myself - on the one hand it does seem fairly obvious Bush is pushing it as a matter of family honor.

      But on the other hand, Hussein *HAS* been in violation of every single UN resolution against him for the past 12 years, and what good is the UN if it won't enforce its own resolutions? Bush is merely trying to make the UN actually relevent and is entirely within bounds to pursue the matter.

      Hmm....

      Anyways, I agree that since we are going to war at this point, we should do what we can to take out the enemy C3 infrastructure, and if we can do any amount of it by "hacking", so much the better.

      --
      Government IS the problem.
    5. Re:Now remember who's writing this... by azzy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Anyone who cares about the UN (as we all should) should care about France.. they have a security council veto. Saddam Hussein isn't the only one in breach of UN resolutions. Israel is in breach of some.. with US support. Indeed USA have breached many resolutions themselves, eg illegal blockade of Cuba.

      All that aside.. I am still in favour of action against Iraq.. but if /you/ want to talk about 'hypocrisy' you ought not to be pointing the finger at France foremost.

  30. MRTG graphs! by MavEtJu · · Score: 2, Funny

    "The pending Iraqi war promises to deliver quite the display of modern, smart technology well beyond what we saw in '91." ... "the US will use soldiers in office chairs to disrupt Iraqi infrastructure."

    Will give a great footage on CNN:
    As you see on this graph, this was the traffic to their webservers in the last month. Now check this peak when we started to probe it and after that the constant block of traffic towards it.
    And check the BGP statistics, since three days their routing-entries have disappeared!

    ps. http://www.mavetju.org/~edwin/bomb-iraq.html

    --
    bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
  31. Lots of id10t errors here by wiredog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The primary one being that cyberwar automatically equals, and is limited to, the internet. Many systems are networked, and/or acessible from outside, without being on the internet.

  32. Re:... preemptively shut down the US ... by Red+Rocket · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's how Powell should have produced his evidence:

    "We're absolutely sure Saddam has weapons of mass destruction because WE SOLD THEM TO HIM! And I have the receipts RIGHT HERE!" (Powell holds up receipts)

    That would remove all doubt, wouldn't it. But I guess we'll never see that.

    --
    - Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
  33. Posting as AC since I'm in this line of work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you attend US military conferences, you know that they're quite proud of their CND (computer network defence) ability, but refuse to comment on their CNA (computer network attack) capability. That's partly because they had no RoE.

    In fact, some other industrialized nations are pushing for CNA to be considered a weapon of mass destruction, since the effects of most viruses and DDoSes can't be predicted until they're launched (your attack on a power plant takes out a hospital...and another...and another).

    As for Iraq's dependence on the 'net, don't think about SAM batteries with IP addresses. Think about Info Ops. Think Wag the Dog. Think about pro-Iraqi websites suddenly "reporting" US victories. Or US sites suddenly being "attacked", giving the FBI justification to round up those Iraqi-Americans on its watch list.

    Far-fetched? Right about the time that the latest Osama video was being "authenticated", a senior US officer was bragging to me about how advanced their video morphing technology was getting.

  34. Bad idea--remember Hiroshima? by EnlightenmentFan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I hope this effort will focus on using known hacker techniques and avoid the temptation to start developing new and better ones.

    Let me remind you of the origins of the atom bomb, and of Einstein's later remark that he wished he had cut off the hand that signed a letter to Roosevelt endorsing it. The scientists who knocked themselves out to build it were working to stop Hitler, but once the knowledge was out there, it was beyond their control.

    • In fact, the bomb got dropped on cities full of Japanese civilians.
    • In fact, the knowledge those scientists worked to build up became the property of US government officials including (for instance) GW Bush.
    • In fact, the atom bomb techniques have since been stolen by many rogue nations.
    • In fact, the atom bomb techniques were the basis for the even more destructive H bomb.

    A government-sponsored development of hacking has enormously destructive potential for all of us who use the internet. Today Iraq is the target. Tomorrow, the target could be domestic dissent. Isn't Ann Coulter already calling the Democrats who didn't cheer Bush's SOU traitors?

    Bad, bad, bad idea

    --
    Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...
  35. great by g4dget · · Score: 2, Funny

    US cyber-warfare units will attempt a DDoS attack on the Iraqi infrastructure through Iraq's remaining 56 kbaud AOL dialup connection. That will surely be successful.

  36. International Cyberwarfare by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What are the cyber-warfare plans of OTHER countries? Is America in the lead on getting organized on this?

    I just happened to spend time last week at a talk given by an Army Intelligence officer (keep in mind that the Army does about the least amount of high-tech crap of any of the armed forces).

    Basically, there's only one country with major cyberwarfare plans, and it's China. China maintains a standing segment of its army trained specifically in cyberwarfare, and actively conducts research in it. We have far fewer resources in this than China does.

  37. Smart? by Orlando · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The pending Iraqi war promises to deliver quite the display of modern, smart technology well beyond what we saw in '91.

    Smart enough to know the difference between enemy soldiers and a wedding party?

    --
    -= This is a self-referential sig =-
  38. Are You out of your mind? by no-body · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Do I see right?

    The pending Iraqi war promises to deliver...quite a display

    It seem to have escaped you that there are humans getting killed by this "firework". They have family, brothers, sisters, friends. Ever wondered, how one becomes a terrorist?

    "It's really not a number I'm terribly interested in." --General Colin Powell [When asked about the number of Iraqi people who were slaughtered by Americans in the 1991 "Desert Storm" terror campaign (200,000 people!)]

  39. Good for opensource by Tyreth · · Score: 4, Interesting
    For other countries who fear a US attack, this could be a great reason for them to pursue open source software. There is more chance of them identifying flaws so long as they keep their machines up to date.

    They can fix problems quickly. They will not rely on the software of the country attacking them.

  40. TLD by craw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm going after the admin of the Iraq (.iq) TLD!. No, wait.

  41. I'm quite divided on the Iraq war myself by dpilot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Me too, and for pretty much the same points as you, though I'll put a lot of other similar motivations in on the Bush side.

    As for Hussein, IMHO he's a thug - a fairly bright thug, but still a thug. He's nowhere near a Hitler-Class Evil Genius.

    Also IMHO, we now have a case of two wrongs, and it's almost impossible to figure out how to do the right thing. It's entirely possible that war with Iraq is necessary, but there has been so doggone much smoke cast about by now that it's impossible to see clearly. The pro-war camp may well be right, but I suspect for the wrong reasons. The anti-war camp probably has the right reasons, but I suspect that they're probably wrong.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  42. How do the certs map to elite forces? by ubiquitin · · Score: 5, Funny


    HTML "programmers": enlisted privates
    RedHat certified: USArmy officer
    ten years Unix sysadmin: noncommissioned sargeant
    open source project leads: USArmy captain through colonel
    Linux kernel maintainers: USArmy four star general
    Cisco cert: USMC
    FreeBSD sysadmins: Delta Force
    OpenBSD sysadmins: Airborne Rangers
    Oracle DBA's: Navy captains
    MCSE: cannon fodder
    MCSE who didn't patch SQLServer: dishonorable discharge

    Hell, if I get to spend time on the firing range with some MCSE's, sign me up. See real USArmy rank hierarchy here.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
  43. Can we trust our own government? by Hypharse · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I am not a big fan of the republican government we have. Everyone knows about that "Home Security Bill" they passed that contained privacy intrusions that would never have passed on their own. How are we to know that this is not just another excuse to give the government power to invade our privacy even more?

    Bush seems to have an "at all costs" attitude which even includes freedom.

  44. Politicians... by EdMcMan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    telnet power.grid
    #> disable power.output !hospitals

    telnet radar
    #> redirect to root@army.mil

    telnet allbiologicalweapons
    #> detonate

    I'm sure these things will just be conventiently plugged in to the internet.

  45. I'll bite. by IPFreely · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I wasn't talking about war, the democrats, the DMCA, Iraq or any of that other stuff. But since YOU brought it up....

    Saddam is _not_ going to disarm peacefully.

    Agreed. That's not my question. My question is: So what? Why is this a reason to start a war?
    Some claim that if an "appropriate authority" have made a "solid legal demand" for information and action, and that demand is ignored or rebuffed, then it is an appropriate excuse to "immediately remove by force" the person who failed to obey orders (with "UN", "Disarm Iraq" and "War" being the three example fillers). I happen to believe that there should be some more levels of negotiation in between failure to comply and ALL OUT WAR. However, if you like that attitude, how about if we reword that with "appropriate authority" being "US Congress" and "solid legal demand" being a request for VP DC to turn over information about his energy policy meetings, and HE OUTRIGHT REFUSED! Is that a sufficient reason to "immediately remove by force" Mr. DC? Apparently not. Hypocracy is so ugly.

    Bush talks like Iraq is ready to jump out and take over the world unless we stop him. Go look at what really happened. Iraq attacked in 1990. UN responded. Iraq Defeated. Iraq withdraws. Iraq hasn't peeped outside their borders since 1991. CIA rates Iraq as non-threat unless attacked first. So what does Bush do? He makes a lot of noise. He claims Iraq is about to attack everyone. He says he's going to attack them first. He CREATES the threat situation where there was none before. Sure, Iraq wasn't disarming, but they weren't trying to start a war either. Of all the tin-pot dictators in the world, Saddam knows from personal experience exactly what will happen to him if he does. He may be a mad man, but he isn't stupid. He wants weapons to maintain power inside Iraq, not outside.

    Now because of Bush's "Heroic, No non-since, Take control, Total domination threats", we have North Korea, a REAL international threat, breathing down our necks. What is "our hero" George doing about them? NOTHING! I guess he wanted an easy target for his "Pet Project" war, not a "real enemy" that he might actually have to negotiate with. You can't look all powerfull and right if you have to negotiate. Bad for the "Hero" image.

    I can't say what the appropriate action is from now forward. Maybe war is the only out. Bush is claiming he can't back down now. It would look weak. But I think it was REALLY BAD to intentionally put us into this situation in the first place. WAR KILLS PEOPLE. The best way to save American lives is NOT TO GO TO WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE. Why was Bush so desperate to start one where it wasn't necessary? Obviously not to save lives. Probably it was to distract us from all the bad economic news, or maybe to avenge Daddy's image. Great idea. Economy in a slump, severe deficit. So lets make it worse by inventing an expensive war, runnin up the deficit even more and strangling the economy to death.

    Forking Stupid Arrogant Idiot.

    --
    There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
    1. Re:I'll bite. by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, "supporting terrorism." On that question the U.S. is lying. They have shown no evidence.

      What they have shown is that he has some chemical or biological agents (although far less than he had in 1991-1998). That is not the same thing as "supporting terrorism", which is rhetorical nonsense.

      We, on the other hand, have so many chemical and biological agents ourselves that we can't even keep them from getting into the mail.

    2. Re:I'll bite. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IRAQ supports terrorists and is trying to build nukes

      Pretty much like the US, then? The US supports terrorists, and already has nukes. Get ready for the UN inspections.

  46. Have we been duped by J2EE? by sherpajohn · · Score: 2, Funny

    All these .WAR files I work with....makes me wonder. Web-ARchive they say, yeah right!

    --

    Going on means going far
    Going far means returning
  47. Combine this with United Devices by kippy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know who else has heard this but the Department of Defense recently contracted United Devices to work on smallpox reasearch, also called the patriot grid. Since there are about 2 million machines running the UD client, this would put a massive amount of machines at the DOD's disposal.

    The UD client is closed source so there's no way of knowing if the software the the DOD wrote is totaly dedicated to testing smallpox drugs or launching a cyber attack.

    Massive DDOS attack anyone?

  48. Yeah Cyber Warfare will work well in Iraq by inteller · · Score: 5, Funny

    We'll be able to shut down their 2 ATMs and reboot all of those illegally imported PS2s....that should crush them.

  49. United states amped out wardance. by iLEZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not my intention to be troll here, but i quote:

    "the Pentagon has stepped up development of cyber-weapons, envisioning a day when electrons might substitute for bombs and allow for more rapid and less bloody attacks on enemy targets."

    Hacking to shut down radars and power from thousands of miles away can have no other cause than to support an aerial assault, and aerial assaults are never bloodless. They just want to cripple people so they cannot strike back. Maybe we should redefine the terms "blood" and "human beings" to fit the United States wardance more correctly. Schools and hospitals without power can only turn people more against US.
    Fighting for peace is like fuxxing for virginity.

    --
    You cant fight in here, its a war room!
  50. Too bad... by micq · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...he pissed off Gore in the last election... he could use some input from the inventor of the internet.

  51. Secret Ops by kirn_malinus · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I'd heard that they were concerned about the possibility of "fail safe" switches going off when attacking installations that have weapons of mass destruction. The concern was that if these installations were severed from communication with Baghdad the weapons would automatically be launched.

    This article says "an administration official ... declined to confirm or deny whether such planning was underway," possibly because planning is done and the attack has already begun? Think about it - if they want to overcome these fail safes, what's the best way to do it? Break into the systems that initiate/run them and disable them before the physical attacks even begin. So that would make such electronic attacks part of the preperation and planning for physical attacks.

    If they plan on attacking physically in under six months (and I think Bush does, or at least would like to), then they would probably be breaking into the systems right now...

    --
    All circuits busy.
  52. Grim future of our existance... by burbilog · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Saddam is _not_ going to disarm peacefully. All the UN circus acts and smoke shows are not going to change that fact. We (US and the coalition of 20+ countries that support us) _are_ going to war. Irregardless of whether or not you and I agree over that course of action, you have to agree that _any_ nonviolent attacks (CYBER) that will shut down radar installtions and missile batteries, or otherwise protect our soldiers lives has merit.

    I never cease to be amazed at how people in US firmly believe in the propaganda from official media outlets. They don't have immunity for it and they will learn it in the hard way as we did. Anyway.

    Forget human rights crap. US never cared about them when it was against their interests.

    Proven amounts of oil are shrinking everywhere in the world except Iraq and Saudi and these countries will account for 50% of world oil reserves during nearest decades. It's well-known fact, but you ignore obvious facts.

    • First, US worked hard to lure Iraq into attacking Kuwait. Note that everything started when Kuwait started draining neighbor Iraq fields and US signalled that Iraq can handle that situation (they were loosing serious money) with military force. The rest is known, but note that previously independed Kuwait is now US colony after war. If you want to force them to do something, you can order US troops who can swiftly deal with stubborn official and his loyal forces. Today we ignore that fact that US occupied Kuwait, turned it into the colony that can't have its own will and now Kuwait is under almost direct US rule. If things get tough Kuwaits oil will go directly to US at no cost except troops upkeep.
    • But at that time it was impossible to invade Iraq because UN won't allow it. Now they are used to US driving its forces arond the globe, kurds are prepared for rebellion and US can split Iraq, taking oil fields and leave everything else to afghan-like chaos.
    • Then comes Saudi. Remember that most terrorists at 9/11 were Saudis? It will take some heavy propaganda, but their country will be invaded by US soon -- may be 10 or 20 years.
    • Then... as oil production becomes too energy consuming to be profitable humanity will have to find alternative energy source. The only one alternative viable power source is nuclear and US can't allow other countries rely on it because once it becomes common energy source you won't be able to control ALL reactors and other countries will start getting nuclear arms and thus immune to things that are going in Iraq (some lousy rockets without much brains but with simple nuclear charges will wipe all your carriers and bases and no sane neighbor country will allow you to build bases anymore on their territory and let carriers visit their waters). Thus whole world crisis is needed where other countries will suffer enough to be unable to build nuclear plants. Remaining plants could be bombed as Israeli did with Iraq plant, that's why such huge money are dumped into stealth bombers.
    • When oil supply start going down humanity will have "methane pause", there are a lot of methane available (but not much), and currently about 93% of methane fields are in Russia. That's why I will go and vote even for communists or facists if they support upkeeping serious amounts of nuclear weapons able to wipe US. It's the only way to keep US at the bay, because as soon as they feel able to shoot down most our missiles and withstand nuclear blasts from these who come through new missle shield they WILL attack. Eh? You start saying something about human rights? Well, when Khasavurt accord established slavery regime in Chechnya with US help HALF OF MILLION russians were expelled, many thousands were killed. This fact got ZERO attention in US. Compare that with chechen refugees who got featured everywhere. Compare that with expelled Albanians (most of whom were in Kosovo because they sneaked there some decades before) -- they were useful. That's why I will support government that cares about MY nation and not abstract "human rights" which get bent at US will.
    We as human race have to assemble and disarm US before they bring down civilisation.

    Well, I exaggregated a little. But this is where real interests lie. Governments may be different, be it "democracy", dictatorship, republic or something else, but geopolitical interests remains the same, no matter who acts as face of the country. It even doesn't matter what he says. Look who gets the profit.

  53. Treaties can be backed out of if situations change by Starrider · · Score: 2, Informative

    Treaties are never intended to be "until all time," even if that is what the wording says. A country enters into a treaty because it sees a benefit to doing so. If the treaty stops being a benefit, or worse, causes a harm, that country has an OBLIGATION to withdraw from it. Remember a government is only accountable to its own citizens, not the rest of the world. That might sound unfair, but gunboat diplomacy usually works.

    Another side note: if Congress empowers the President to do this, we have ALREADY backed out of that treaty. Reference the Supreme Court "Cherokee Tabacco Case". The Supreme Court ruled that laws passed by Congress supercede any previous treaties.

  54. Re:Which begs the question... by errxn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ha! So I guess that T-shirts with penguins on the front of them will soon become U.S Government Issue along with the combat boots.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.