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Keyboard Layouts for the 21st Century?
jules asks: "Trying to do some programming on an iBook the other day brought to my attention the fact that despite the constant improvements to the design of computer hardware and software, the keyboards we use are still a throwback to the early 1980s. I mean - my Mac doesn't have room for page up/down or home/end keys, but it devotes a whole key to a sort of double-S shape that I will never press. And my PC keyboards all waste plastic on a backwards-apostrophe key and a scroll-lock (+ LED!), while functions that you use all the time, such as switching between windows, cut/copy/paste, back/forwards, undo/redo etc, all have to double-up with other keys.. Have any organizations actually tried to re-invent the keyboard recently? (..not counting the manufacturers who stick a few 'multimedia' keys along the top for consumer PCs). Would this be doomed to failure because of the tens of thousands of legacy apps that expect things to be the way they are? What sort of keys would you include in your fantasy keyboard layout?" It's not just the keys on your keyboard that are important, it's also how you arrange them. What kind of keyboard arrangements might we see in the future?
Must not be a *nix user if he has no use for the tilde key!
In Soviet Rush, today's Tom Sawyer gets high on you.
You never use the back tick? How's Microsoft Windows treating you?
yes, but where do you buy these things?
:)
i tried to rearrange my qwerty keyboard, and ended up finding that the keys on row x are only meant for row x, and won't work on row x+1...!
i did manage to break my space bar too
so, my question is: if i have a keyboard that doesn't lend itsself to mod'ing, where can i find one of those fancy keyboards?
Oh damn. I've been draeming about this for a few months now.
;-)
I want a keyb that has pry-out keys which each contain a resistor/whatever to mark what they are.
Then I can remap my keyb without confusing my coworkers (well, some of them) and I don't have to wonder which mapping is in effect. Also I want to be able to "break" teh numpad off and move it to the left side and back, or even leave it totally seperate.
And I want a pony.
Alternatively, an LCD touchscreen wouldn't be half bad.
Hey IBM, if you make either of these things can you please give me a big fat check? Or at least a demo unit? You b'stards seem to make things I think of whether I keep the idea to myself or not... and god knows that simply thinking of an idea on your own proves that you own it.
okay i luv you buh bye
~the alternating coward
Anybody care to explain the purpose (if any) for the Sys Req button (shared by Print Screen). My impression of it is that it may have had some use way back in the day before my time, but can't think of any purpose today.
$cat
Realize that the PC revolution was fueled by worprocessing and spreadsheet software, which both lend themselves to keyboard/keypad input devices. At some point -- aren't we living in the future yet? -- the input devices must make an evolutionary leap. If you look in the video editing and medical imaging field, the input devices reflect the nature of how the work is done (dials, sliders, toggle buttons). A fictional example of one possibility is the type of 3d input device used in Minority Report. We still are mostly creatures of the keyboard (damn blogs!), but at some point, the next killer app may bring about the emergence of a better input device. Oh yeah, and voice recognition might not suck so much someday ;-)
-duck
And most of all, all keyboards need an analog volume changer. With IBooks, you can change the volume using some function keys... but there needs a little spinny thing to change the audio (like what is in most refrigerator's to change the temp).
And lastly, I can't seem to find that double-S thing on my IBook?
--sex
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
all waste plastic on a backwards-apostrophe key
But how will we use TeX without it??!
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As far as things go, I'm sure the average user has more use for a multimedia-specifc keys or internet-specific keys (quick access to their CD/MP3 player, or Internet Explorer) than do programmers.
When is the last time you saw your mother, et al, use the curley bracket "{". What about the pipe "|". Or the carat "^".
I know I could not live without them, but most people could easily give them up.
Have any of you programmers actually used Dvorak or Maltron keyboards. I have. I can still type on either one, but programming on one sucks! The curly bracket is one of my most used keys and it's totally not in the right place for *me*. Anything optimized for writing english text is going to be horrible for any other symbol system.
Maybe we will get custom keyboards for different sections of the population before too long.
The reason that keyboards haven't changed much is because they don't need it. If something is (almost) as good as it's going to get, why jerk around and try to make it better?
So what do I think is the best keyboard I've used and wouldn't bother trying to improve it? I've used everything from a VIC-20, TRS-80 keyboard, to those old IBM electronic typewriters, to a Fujitsu 4725 PS/2.
The Fujitsu cost me $70(CDN) and I swear it's the best keyboard I could've purchased. Not because it's the good ol' QWERTY layout with a nice big backslash right below the backspace (where it DAMN WELL belongs,) and not because it's the same layout that everyone's been using for decades (and is most comfortable with and thus fastest with,) and not because it's so indestructible it'd probably work well as a bludgeoning weapon in case I were ever attacked in my room:
No, not for all that. What makes this keyboard better than any other I've so far used is that this Fujitsu has *perfect* key action. It's clicky--but soft enough that it just *begs* you to type as fast as you can. It can take all the pounding you can dish out, and the tactile and soft audible feedback make it a real pleasure to work with.
Thank you Fujitsu, for making REAL keyboards!
Personally, I feel that allocating seperate/special keys for specific commands will simply make keyboards clunkier and more obtrusive. ctrl + c and crtl + v works fine for me, i don't have to move my hands very far to perform these tasks. Unless keyboard's undergo some sort of radical changes, which is unlikely due to the fact that everyone has been trained on qwerty style keyboards, additional keys will be tacked on in places that are not convieniently reached by the hands. Two and three key combo's improve efficiency, not hinder it.
The Microsoft Office keyboard has app-fwd and app-back keys, as well as dedicated cut, copy, and paste. Plus, it shows the most common uses of the F-keys, instead of 'F3', it says 'Open'. Plus, it has a scroll wheel, for those who want to scroll a few lines at a time without using the mouse. Plus, things like having an extra backspace (as well as open and close parenthesis) above the number pad. You can click here for Microsoft's page on it.
There are a few companies that make clones of this keyboard now, complete with scroll wheel. I don't know the names of any of the clones, all of the ones I have seen are by very generic companies.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
This reads like a troll. For instance:
If you're using a Mac without using the command key, you're really not using the Mac. Unless you're running PPC Linux?
Ok, you're apparently not running Linux, or you're a Unix programmer who doesn't know how to use backquotes for command substitution in shell programming. Using familiar keys, try entering "man sh ".
Yup, they double up with other keys - through the use of that command metakey you've never hit. If you have a way around this that doesn't involve doubling the size of the keyboard, please share. Try this, just for me - press the little funky "double-S" key (the technical term, btw, is "whee whee propeller!") and hold it, then press shift and hold it, then press the key with a slash and a question mark on it (phew!). Now read all about keyboard shortcuts.
There are umpteen things wrong with modern keyboards, though - you just mention none of them. In all seriousness, have you considered the possibility that you're just an idiot?
I would be glad to dump my "obsolete" keyboard if I could replace it with a 104-button mouse. :)
I notice the original author complains about some keys that he feels are a waste of keys, and also complains that keys he needs are either not present or need to work in conjunction with modifiers/dead keys.
It seems the whole post and the idea of redesigning a keyboard (at least in this context) means, "redesigning the keyboard the way I need it to work for me."
Maybe this hits me more than others because I'm a writer first, and a programmer second (I'm only programming while I need to, to develop the software for my company so I can make enough money to get back to writing full time). However, I find a bothersome trend with many developers to assume that "what I need is what we all need."
I don't know how it works on a Mac, but I would think under OSX, if one does not like the way a keyboard is mapped, one can simply change the key map.
I know for me, as a writer, the keyboard works fine, and I'd rather not see it changed (much), because I'd rather not have to learn a new layout.
But for me to assume that since the current keyboard works well for me, so it should not be changed, would be as absurd as the original topic, which assumes that most people need keys to switch between windows more than they need other keys.
(Yes -- I know. I'll be modded to troll immediately because I dared to say the slightest negative thing about a programmer or developer!)
Hey man, I loved the QWERTY keyboard so much, I named my cat after it. She is a grey and white cat, and very friendly. And she'll punk your ergo-friendly Dvorak hamster in a second.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
While I agree with your basic premise, the particular example you use causes me to vomit. That is one thing wrong with Windows, and PC keyboards - they're short one meta key. Just having Alt means the control key has to be overloaded for, well, control functions. You'd think that would make sense, but since control characters were enshrined in ASCII they lost their "meta" status, and lot of people need to type them into terminal windows (while also requiring quick key, non-strain-inducing shortcuts for copy and paste). That overloading of the control key is one of my pet peeves about Windows. Half of my use of the Mac is as a terminal to Unix command lines, whether local or remote.
Please consider joining SPOB, the Society for the Preservation Of Buckybits.
I've got a whole drawer full of them. It's oddly satisfying to pry them off with a penknife and toss them in the drawer, knowing you'll never need 'em.
Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
I guess you're not a *nix user. The back-tick is a *very* useful key.
Salesman: Look, the new Cyrius Cybernetics keyboards can talk! Describe whatever layout you want, and the AI in the keyboard will implement it. His name is Marvin.
Customer: Hello, Marvin. What are all those blinking lights for?
Marvin: They hurt.
Salesman: Shut up, Marvin. They're primarily decorative, but Marvin can assign them to whatever LOCK keys you specify.
Marvin: I've had this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side. I mean, I've asked to have them replaced, but nobody listens.
Customer: It seems unhappy.
Salesman: Well, Marvin would feel much better if someone took him home, if you take my drift.
Marvin: No I wouldn't.
Customer: Are you sure it will work with my Compaq 8000, at home?
Salesman: Definitely.
Marvin: They plugged me into a compaq once.
Customer: And what happened?
Marvin: It committed suicide.
Customer: Why are you so unhappy?
Marvin: I've got a brain the size of a planet, and look at what they've got me doing.
Customer: Do any of the peripherals here have better personalities?
Salesman: Oh, no...
Speaker: I wanted to let you know what a joy and a privelege it's been to make error sounds for your computer enjoyment! It's been really wonderful! Would you guys like to hear some public domain music? I used to be an elevator!
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
A keyboard with completely blank keys. Sure pissed :) I'd have to mentally
of co-workers wanting to borrow my system, which
was the problem and the point. It took a few hours
with some 200 grit sandpaper. I even sanded off the
little home key nubbies.
remember "ok, pink goes on key next to capslock,
skip two from left pointer, put right pointer there".
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
My preferred keyboard has things like cut, copy, paste, home, end, undo, help. I find it quite useful.
Follow me
Also imagine the pure joy of virus writers when they realize just what they can do with the victim's keyboard.
Well, if Apple had their way, the keyboard would only have one key. ;)
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
To begin, draw an S for snake, or dragon, or whatever, next we'll draw a more different S.
TROGDOR!
</Strongbad>
I could have typed that post so much faster than you on my qwerty keyboard.
In fact, lets have a contest to see who can type "qwerty lovers" faster. BWAHHAHA!!
One of my friends pointed Unicomp to me a while back. They make the old IBM keyboards [I assume it's similar to how Lexmark is the old IBM printer division].
Yes, it's $50 for one of 'em, but well, those people who like the feel of the keyboards think it's worth it. [and it's heavy enough to beat your annoying co workers with, or even stop a rampaging day-trader].
Oh -- and it's dirt easy to move the letters on the keys, as they letters are on a little cap which it not actually part of the key.
It's useful for playing pranks on people who hunt and peck, or for confusing people and hiding random messages. [and after someone's going away party, I'm short a few 'e's and 's'es, as I had to strip down one keyboard just for the letters].
And speaking of rearranging keyboards -- why is that computer keyboards have the 1-3 row on the number pad at the bottom, while telephones have it at the top?
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
why is that computer keyboards have the 1-3 row on the number pad at the bottom
Computers have 123 on the bottom because adding machines and calculators have 123 on the bottom.
while telephones have it at the top?
Telephones have it 123 on the top because rotary-dial telephones had 123 at the top of the dial.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yeah, every day. I switched to dvorak six years ago. True, the pure dvorak layout is not well designed for programming. But it's advantages in English are astounding.
I use dvorak layout on a Kinesis contoured keyboard.
Cool thing is, the 'board is hardware macro programmable. A footswitch puts the keyboard into "second layer", which normally maps the right hand keys to a keypad. Instead, I have the second layer activate macros. On my left hand, keys with the footswitch down activate HTML macros, like followed by eight left arrows and a carraige return. On my right, single keys activate macros, like "t" (where K is on a qwerty) gives me a pair of curly braces on two lines, and arrows back up to put me on a line in between them, like this:one key in the middle of the board saves me about eight awkward keystrokes.
footswitch-"f" gives me:saving me about a dozen keystrokes.
I've got dozens of such macros. I never ever type "" or "{" or "(" (except I just did
No carpal-tunnel strain from reaching for weirdly placed "{" and "" keys all the time, because they're all in my macros.
The 'board is USB and mac/pc switchable and the macros are in hardware, so I can take it with me to group meeting / LAN party / whatever and work with any machine, anywhere, with all my layout customizations and macros.
And I won't even get started on the kinesis' contour shape, which addresses 8+ major ergonomic concerns where things like the MS Natural and such only address 1.
I can switch between qwerty/dvorak with a keystroke, without losing my macros, so that friends can try out the keyboard.
I've been using this setup for half a decade. Kicks ass, I'm telling you.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
The assertation that QWERTY is significantly slower than Dvorak or other layouts also seems to be a myth.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
The SysReq or "System Request" key is a key left over from the IBM 3090. 3270 Terminals (of which the PC could emulate with the appropriate expansion card) interact with mainframes in a very similar manner to Web browsers with a CGI form page -- everything is stored locally in a buffer, then sent in a transaction when the "Enter" button is pressed (which, by the way, is not the same as the PC Enter button, so when in 3270 emulation mode, the ALT keys are reassigned to this task). The terminal then waits for a response back from the mainframe, usually an entire page of text & input boxes to display all at once. The cycle is then repeated.
Occasionally, just like with web pages, the transaction would somehow get lost in the ether, and the terminal would just sit there forever waiting for a response back from the mainframe which would never come. This is where the SysRq key comes in. You would then press the SysRq key, and the transaction would be cancelled, and control is returned to the terminal.
So, in effect, the SysRq key is the Mainframe equivalent of the "Stop" button on a web browser.
The fact that the SysRq key made it onto IBM PC's shows you just what IBM's original strategy was with the PC market: A "brilliant" mainframe terminal; that is, a terminal capable of doing a little bit more than a simple 327X "Smart" terminal, but ultimately, as far as IBM was concerned, it was still a Mainframe's world, and the PC was ultimately beholden to it.
What are you? Some kind of clueless newbie?
I use the "backwards apostrophe" all the time. For example, I want to edit my "startx" script. I type:
$ vi `which startx`
and it brings it up in my favorite editor. I suggest the poster should learn the benefits of the backwards apostrophe before dissing it.
Best Buy can have you arrested
Nope,
Logistical and programming issues aside, speech uses a different portion of the brain than typing. When you're typing, you aren't using all your mental capacities, so you have time/ability to think of other things as you do your work, instead of devoting all of it to speaking. Also, you can't speak discreetly... If I were, say, browsing porn I couldn't just sit there at work and say "Web google.com. quote free lesbian redhead porn endquote search". I can type it without anyone hearing it though.
Not to mention that I can type much faster than I can speak.
It's the REAL bastard key on the PC's layout. I always suspected it was for compatibility with an IBM terminal emulation or something. I only remember one program that used it, DESQview. For all of you that are confused, DESQview was a multi-tasker for MS-DOS. If you were an old-school MS-DOS hacker you may have used it. If not, be happy that you were spared the pain =). Can anyone else name an app that used it? I'm talking default mappings here. Please spare me the "you used MS-DOS you infidel! I've been using UNIX since I was in the womb!@#!#" nonsense, some of us were young and had shitty computers.
No use for the backwards apostrophe? Obviously you don't do a lot of scripting and TeX. :-p
IMHO, you should not depend on the big boys to bring you a good keyboard. They still only ship the purposefully inefficient QWERTY keyboards... Dvorak keyboards are available, but at outrageous prices. My advice is to help yourself, and make your own keyboard and your own key bindings.
I started by taking a permanent marker and drawing the Dvorak symbols on my QWERTY keyboard. Moving the keys is not an aption, as for some reason they won't fit in places other than the ones they are meant for. Besides, I get a lot of visitors, and I don't expecrt them to learn Dvorak if they just want to use my computer for a while. Leaving the QWERTY symbols in place accomodates those who need them. Be warned though: after you switch to Dvorak, your typing spood will be more awful than you ever imagined. If you persist, you will soon find yourself in the situation that you can't type on QWERTY nor on Dvorak. If you type a lot, however, you will notice that Dvorak significantly reduces strain. Eventually, your typing speed will increase beyond what you had on QWERTY, simply because the upper bound is higher.
One more note about Dvorak: Dvorak also designed keyboards for people with only one hand. These are highly popular (in as far as people consider anything other than QWERTY, that is) today, because they allow you to type with one hand and mouse|phone|drink| with the other. Their layout could also be useful for PDA's, wihich typically have limited space for keys.
Besides something radical like changing your keyboard layout, there are various other things you can do, most notably, assigning hotkeys to common events. What is possible and how it can be done largely depends on the software you are running. If yau are using X11, chances are your function keys mostly go unused. In many window managers, they can be bound to window management events, so that you can, for example, use to switch to the next window, to go to the previous one, to maximize the current window, and to iconify it. This is easily done in WindowMaker through the Wprefs app shipped with it. If you want to assign other shortcuts to common operations like use to save a file instead of +, you could supposedly change your keyboard setup so that generates +. If you want to assign keyboard shortcuts to operations that previously hod none defined, for example, Copy and Paste as New in GIMP, you probably need some specialized software, which I think Apple and MicroSoft ship with their GUIs, but I am not aware of any such software for XFree86.
Those are just a few things you can do to improve your productivity here and now, without waiting for the big guys to do it for you. I've upped my productivity, up yours!
---
"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."
-- Lazarus Long
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
This first post brought to you buy
??
I think i will keep my qwerty keyboard!