Lindows Releases Inexpensive Subnotebook

GNU/linux hardware by latroM · 2003-02-20 06:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sounds neat. We need more GNU/Linux hardware makers to make users familiar with the free operating system. I don`t know how free lindows is but bringing choice to users is important.

Re:GNU/linux hardware by Waffle+Iron · 2003-02-20 07:18 · Score: 3, Funny

In order to satisfy all of the interested parties, it really ought to be called "{ G/L (but not W) }indowsOS"

Kinda expensive by GigsVT · 2003-02-20 06:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

Considering the C3 933Mhz is slower than a PIII 400.

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Re:Kinda expensive by binaryDigit · 2003-02-20 06:39 · Score: 5, Informative

Yeah, but it still beats an iBook by 50% (pricewise, anyways)

Nope, the chart is wrong, they were comparing to the PowerBook, NOT the iBook. The iBook only costs $999 in a comparable configuration (the lowest end).
Re:Kinda expensive by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-20 06:45 · Score: 3, Informative

I don't understand where 50% comes from. A 700 MHz iBook is running at $999 at the Apple store, the computer they pull a comparison to is the new G4 Powerbook in the iBook form factor.

So, a $200 difference, plus another 128 meg SODIMM. Not quite as bad all of a sudden.

Also, I just realized that this machine they are selling is a true sub-notebook and doesn't include an optical media drive. That won't go over well, I've never seen a person be satisfied with PCMCIA CD-ROM solutions..
Re:Kinda expensive by dasmegabyte · 2003-02-20 07:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

Besides which, you can't compare a VIA C2 to a G4. Hell, even comparing it to a G3 is sort of like comparing a scooter to a Harley. Of COURSE it's half the price...it's less than half the machine!

And it begs the question: why are we supposed to trust a company that can't even get it's own marketing straight? They're just a company with a name that's a bad pun on the most effectively marketed operating system ever...I'd put more stock in AmigaOS. At least Amiga is trying it's own thing.

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Re:Kinda expensive by Xunker · 2003-02-20 07:12 · Score: 3, Informative

Slower at what?

Floating point? Yes, much slower (owing to half-speed FPU and Cyrix's regretable design).

But what else? I have a machine next to me that has a Via C3-866; In WinStones and Sysmarks it easily paces my Celery 850; Though in Q3A, the Via is laughable in comparison.

No, the Via C3 is not a gamers machine, but in basic use it's adequate for Joe user (and it uses less than a quarter of the power of your PII-400!)

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Re:Kinda expensive by Greedo · 2003-02-20 07:33 · Score: 4, Informative

And the iBook (even the cheapest) has an internal CD drive (or DVD/CD-R), which you'd have to buy seperately if you wanted one of these Lindows notebooks.

Not to knock them ... it looks like a reasonably good price for a half-decent system. You aren't gonna play Doom III on it, but if I needed a tiny, light, mid-range powered, Linux notebook, I'd be interested.

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Re:Kinda expensive by puck01 · 2003-02-20 09:03 · Score: 4, Interesting

Considering this deal to be had at dell right now. I'd have to agree. # Celeron 1.6GHz, 256MB RAM, 20GB HD for $595.

puck

I'd still rather have an iBook by Shinzaburo · 2003-02-20 06:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

Given that you can find iBooks for just a bit more (around $999), I think I'd rather have the Aqua interface.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook by binaryDigit · 2003-02-20 06:48 · Score: 5, Informative

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it. You also get a more stable OS, stable in the sense that you don't have to worry about compatability issues. You get a built-in cd, which for some people is a significant plus (though some don't need it as well). Also notice that there is no mention of battery life. Also, where do you take your Lindows machine if you're having problems? Apple has places everywhere to do repairs, etc. You get MacOSX with several built in apps (iPhoto, iMovie, etc) that are arguably better (usuabillity, integration, not necessarily more powerful) than anything you are going to get for free for Lindows as well.
Re:I'd still rather have an iBook by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2003-02-20 07:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

Aaargh.

I use an iBook, and I love it. It's a great machine and I'm glad I spent the money (a little more that $999, since I bought it last year, and I maxed out the RAM, which was a worthwhile expenditure IMO.) If anyone asks me "what kind of laptop should I buy?" an iBook is usually at the top of my recommendation list.

But.

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead. Linux story: a bunch of comments about how you should use OS X. OS X story: ditto, but from the Linux side. MySQL/PostgreSQL: duuude, MySQL/PostgreSQL sucks, use PostgreSQL/MySQL instead. Any story about programming language X: Language X 5ux0rz, Language Y r0x0rz. Et bloody cetera.

Different people want different tools for different tasks. Deal with it.

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Re:I'd still rather have an iBook by g4dget · 2003-02-20 07:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it.
I have an 800MHz C3 and a 600 MHz iMac (not too different from a 933MHz C3 vs. a 700MHz iBook): the C3 is indeed slower than the iMac in terms of raw CPU performance, but the GUI and applications actually run faster on the C3. Keep in mind that systems X11 were originally developed for machines like 8MHz 68k systems with a few megabytes of RAM. OSX, on the other hand, is really pushing the envelope in terms of system requirements.
Re:I'd still rather have an iBook by Captain+Large+Face · 2003-02-20 07:53 · Score: 4, Funny

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead.

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)
Re:I'd still rather have an iBook by cowmix · 2003-02-20 08:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

I am running Linux on a 733 C3 and it is very slow. Where it really shows its slothness is when you do something like SSH. The key exchange seems to take eons.

Yet for $699... by wo1verin3 · 2003-02-20 06:26 · Score: 5, Informative

Yet for $699 you can get this Dell Inspiron with a Celeron 1.6, GeForce2Go 16mb video, and more.... add 128MB to bring it up to the same price and you can load on your own Linux Install. Why are we doing Lindows marketing for something that isn't really that great of a deal if you shop around?

Re:Yet for $699... by dartboard · 2003-02-20 06:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

The Dell Inspiron you quote is 6.8lbs -- roughly 2.5 times the size of the Lindows PC. I'd say that's a significant difference, wouldn't you?
Re:Yet for $699... by BMonger · 2003-02-20 06:41 · Score: 4, Informative

Also $699 is the "base price"... if you try to configure a system for $699 it's almost next to impossible. I tried to configure that system and there is nothing on the first page that tells me that switching out an option will either lower or raise the price. Clicking continue gives me a price of $1,277... I have no idea where they get their $699 prices from... frankly I find Dell's pricing scheme very misleading.
Re:Yet for $699... by evilviper · 2003-02-20 06:53 · Score: 5, Informative

My Sotec notebook is 4LBS, has a built-in combo DVD/CD-RW, 256MB of RAM, 20GB HD, etc. All that was $750, and it has a 1.2GHz Celeron, not a piece of crap VIA-C3, which performs like it's less than half it's own clock-speed.

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Re:Yet for $699... by cdrudge · 2003-02-20 07:01 · Score: 5, Informative

Follow the grandparent's link, click the blue "Recommended Systems". Right under the phone of the laptop there is a link that says "Inspiron 2650C starting at $699". Click it. That takes you to a page that has the laptop for $849 - $150 rebate = $699. You can customize it from there.

This link takes you straight to that page. Here is the same laptop that is $806-$150 rebate (not shown on that page but on another that leads to that page). The extra $$$ off is due from their Employee Purchase Program that anyone can get thru.

Graphics chipsets by jmertic · 2003-02-20 06:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Any idea what graphics chipset these use? The specs left that out ( usually means it's a bad one ).

Re:Graphics chipsets by BMonger · 2003-02-20 06:36 · Score: 4, Informative

From http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Produ ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

Integrated Savage 4 AGP 4X graphic core (up to 16MB Video Memory)
Re:Graphics chipsets by kriston · 2003-02-20 07:00 · Score: 5, Informative

All Via C3s are low power/low heat. The 933 MHz model is exceptionally fast for its power and heat requirements. The chipset is the integrated Via ProSavage (the old S3 stuff) which has specific acceleration support for MPEG (DVD) decoding. I build systems based on this processor and they are excellent for everything except 3d gaming, and I've never seen anyone expect to do 3d gaming on a notebook PC for under $2500, anyway.

KRis

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Kriston

Yeah, but.... by LordYUK · 2003-02-20 06:29 · Score: 4, Funny

How long till someone gets a linux distro to run on it? oh wait...

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Windows? by SirDrinksAlot · 2003-02-20 06:29 · Score: 4, Funny

Can you load Windows onto it? :-)

Competetive comparison by BMonger · 2003-02-20 06:32 · Score: 4, Informative

I don't know all the much but their iBook comparison is off... I think they have Powerbook and iBook specs combined into one notebook... the iBook has a G3 chip not a G4 and I don't think it has PCMCIA slots either...

Who else brands this one? by magarity · 2003-02-20 06:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

Obviously this is an OEM model made by someone else (probably VIA themselves). Lindows doesn't have enough market pull to have a custom model made to their own specs. So I bet it is already selling like hotcakes in Southeast Asia with someone else's name on it and Windows installed. Does any recognise it?

Re:Who else brands this one? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-20 11:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Taiwan company name Aamax Technology Co., Ltd.

From their site (google cached):

Specially Package
eNOTE OEM Notebook

12.1" Poly-Si TFT/
C3-933 LVM CPU, VIA Chipset
256MB/20GB/56K/LAN/WXP

For more information, please contact with us ASAP.

This not on their website anymore.

Their comparison chart sucks by binaryDigit · 2003-02-20 06:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

They totally botched the iBook entry in their little comparison chart. They are comparing to the PowerBook not the iBook. You can get a 700mhz iBook for $999, much better comparison. Makes you wonder about their other choices.

idot computers manufactures them by net_bh · 2003-02-20 06:34 · Score: 5, Informative

Here is the CNET news item

Here is a link to the Idot website.

Here is a link to the Gearzoo website.

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Bizarro-world /. post by NineNine · 2003-02-20 06:35 · Score: 4, Funny

And what I want to know... will it run Windows 2000? If it can, I'm all over it. That's not a bad deal.

OT: mini-itx by NorthDude · 2003-02-20 06:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

Have you considered installing a mini-itx board?
They are VERY small board with every thing integrated onto it.
They are made by VIA and are actually quite cheap!

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$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook by IGnatius+T+Foobar · 2003-02-20 06:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Wasn't it just a few days ago that someone on "Ask Slashdot" was looking for a value-priced notebook whose purchase price did not include the Microsoft tax?

This really is a breakthrough, despite it being LindowsOS. This is, perhaps, the first time you can buy a truly Linux-preloaded notebook, as opposed to some of those other "boutique" shops where a Linux machine costs 50-100% more than the same machine loaded with Windows from a first-tier vendor (usually because they simply bought the machine from one of those first-tier vendors and then threw away the Windows license).

But as usual, Slashdotters will find something to complain about. I'm not complaining. As enamoured as I am with my ThinkPad (which I bought used), if I were in the market for a notebook computer right now, I'd give this one some serious consideration.

This is the first time in history that a notebook vendor isn't charging you more for a computer with an operating system that costs less. Even if the very first thing you do is erase LindowsOS and install RedHat, this is still a significant milestone.

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Lindows is satan.. by xchino · 2003-02-20 06:46 · Score: 3, Informative

I would never suggest Lindows for ANYONE. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea. I was super hyped about it being sold on cheap wal-mart PCs. Then I checked it out for myself. Here's what I found that I didn't like...

It always runs under single user mode. IRC somewhere, and you IRC as root. STUPID.

Click'n'Run doesn't work until you subscribe. Then you get to pay for all your software that you could have installed as easily with any other package manger, and a few commercial versions of free software.

That's where they went wrong IMHO. I can understand the financial reason for the Click'n'Run situation, but I see no justification for crippling Linux security to such an extent. I was hoping for a version of Linux that my Windows friends could use. Instead I got a generic version of Windows.

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Compared to a PDA? by Treebeard+the+Ent · 2003-02-20 06:52 · Score: 4, Funny

How can for compare a laptop PC to a PDA? I certaily hope my PDA doesn't have a 12.1" screen or a full sized keyboard sticking out of it (although you can buy one to plug into it) 20 gig hd? nope, but you don't need that much with your PDA (unless you're using it as an MP3 Player too).

It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't. Our oranges are great for making orange juice... apples are not. Our oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.

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Re:So the reason this was posted was.... by los+furtive · 2003-02-20 07:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

Uhm......no.

I'm just a regular Java developing shmoe located in frigid Canada, who first saw this article on The Register and since Slashdot is USA-centric, not to mention very supportive of anything to do with Linux for the people, I figured it was worth submitting since a lot of people might have missed it and would be very interested. I do not have anything to gain from this, and have no vested interest in either Slashdot, Lindows, Via or any other company mentioned in the post.

I hope this little reply helps shed some light on things, and my I suggest in the future that you take the time to write a proper link?

Oh, and for the record, while I agree an iBook would be close to the same thing, with better brand name recognition...it still costs $200 more, and weighs more too (I could be wrong on this one). Another reason why I submitted this story was that only 3 weeks ago I purchases a Toshiba Portege 4000, which cost about twice the price for similar features, and weighs a pound more! I was hoping somebody might see this and save a buck...although I must admit I'm very satisfied with my Portege.

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Re:933 MHz C3 isn't that good by mrklin · 2003-02-20 07:02 · Score: 5, Informative

I would say it is better than that. I use a VIA C3 900 Mhz processor in a Shuttle small form factor PC (SV24) at home. It uses so little power that it does not require a CPU fan.

It is sufficient enough to do the following without problem:

Decode MPEG-2 i.e. playback DVD or VOB files.
Encode and decode MP3.
Generally Office tasks and web surfing.
Even gaming (with older games like Counterstrike) if paired up with a decent graphic card.

What it does not well (at least for me):

Encode MPEG-2.

Handle or manipulate large files (800+ MB high bitrate DivX file, apply Photoshop filter to a TIFF file etc, etc). (This is with 512 MB RAM and a large fast driveXP.)

New games that are CPU intensive.

If you have to seriously ask 'Will this have enough power for my (insert task here)?' then a C3 is probably not for you.

$800 is too much to pay for that anyway although I like its hardware specs (both firewire and USB).

Cheapish, ultralight pc. by juuri · 2003-02-20 07:16 · Score: 4, Informative

Standard laptop PeeCee parts so enjoy putting whatever OS on it you want:

PC-UM10 from sharp

Sharp 2.9lb laptop: P3-600, 128meg ram, 20gig drive

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Selective marketing by JonathanF · 2003-02-20 07:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed that they used the specs for the 12" PowerBook in place of the iBook; how fair is a comparison like that... to the Lindows system (or the others, really)? The 12" PowerBook is probably one of the faster and most full-featured laptops in the class, so of course it's going to cost $1799.

The worst part is that it's evident that Lindows isn't just exaggerating the value of their system - they're blatantly trying to deceive people into thinking that they have the only affordable small-sized laptop in existence. One wonders if they think that the $999 iBook only exists in a parallel universe!

No matter how much the cost or weight might be appealing, I can only see this laptop as being a nightmare for anyone who isn't technically experienced. Imagine some middle-aged couple trying to get an Internet connection, for example, or to get their USB printer to work. They probably wouldn't get much help at all from any company outside of Lindows, and "go check out the Ars Technica Linux forum" (as another example) is not going to help when many support-dependent people aren't even savvy enough to recognize when they have something like Windows XP! No matter what you might think of Macs, they at least have some official support beyond their manufacturer.

Re:Selective marketing by MyHair · 2003-02-20 10:19 · Score: 4, Funny

It needs a catchy name! How about "Lapenguin"? (get it, lap+penguin, Ok, you try...)

Penix?

You've gotta be kidding me... by maynard · 2003-02-20 08:33 · Score: 4, Informative

You can't run Linux apps on an iBook.

$ make clean; make; make install

Or for that matter, just install fink.

I've been running Linux and BSD on my home machines since '94. Finally got sick of maintaining those installs instead of doing work with the computer (and happen to need MS Office to exchange xls spreadsheets with my CPA)... what did I buy? I Macintosh. Why? Because OS X has all the 'NIX software I could possibly want, very easy system management (meaning I'm not wasting my time dicking around with the computer), and the readability of the fonts are simply better than anything out there. Claiming there's no "linux" software, when just about everything includes source and will compile properly under OS X, really misses the point. Also, the battery life of a powerbook is excellent. 5 hours/charge for the 15", 4.5 hours/charge for the 17". I absolutely love this computer. Apple finally did it right. Of course, I used to love the NeXT Station on my desk many years back, so call me biased. --M

Re:C3 vs. Crusoe? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-20 10:02 · Score: 3, Informative

I own a C3 800 and it will run circles around a Crusoe of the same MHz. Crusoe is basically a failure. C3 is the world's smallest x86 core, it's almost as low power as a crusoe (we're talking a small milliwatt difference here). And VIA C3 gets you more MIPS per Watt than any other x86. (about 50% more power per MIPS than a StrongARM though). Think of a VIA C3 as a 486 on steroids (but capable of using the full instruction set). The FPU on the C3 is pretty wimpy (crusoe's complete lack of a true FPU makes it extremely wimpy). The FPU is going to be half-speed(or worse) of your typical celeron/p-iii.

If you are interested in a C3, but don't want this laptop get one of the VIA EPIA-800 motherboards for about $100. (Or one of the newer EPIAs for more money)

Playing with one right now. by markw365 · 2003-02-20 13:12 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm sitting here looking at one, and it's a slick little machine. No floppy or cd, but it _WILL_ netboot so installing Debian won't be that hard. It has an RTL 8139 chipset, so hopefully JHRIV compiled that into the kernel image so we don't have to do a custom tftp kernel to install debian on the thing. Slick little notebook however. :)

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Lindows Releases Inexpensive Subnotebook

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