Lindows Releases Inexpensive Subnotebook

los furtive writes "As of March 1st $799 will get you this Lindows 2.9lb subnotebook with a VIA C3 933MHz Processor, 256 megs ram and a 20 gig HD, a 12inch screen, USB 2.0, firewire and of course the Lindows OS. Pre-orders have already started."

Comments

GNU/linux hardware

[latroM]

Sounds neat. We need more GNU/Linux hardware makers to make users familiar with the free operating system. I don`t know how free lindows is but bringing choice to users is important.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Waffle Iron]

In order to satisfy all of the interested parties, it really ought to be called "{ G/L (but not W) }indowsOS"

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[kevinank]

Stallman has an ego problem. GNU is NOT an essential part of the Linux operating system. All GNU components could be replaced with BSD, or even propeitary versions, and it would still be Linux. How does he know that everyone using the Linux kernel is using the GNU tools?

To dismiss the GNU from GNU/Linux as a clash of egos is to misunderstand the whole debate. Stallman doesn't have a problem with ego, he has a problem with ethics: specificially he doesn't think that Linux by itself promotes the right set of ethics. In particular, bashing Stallman for belaboring GNU is like bashing the pope for being religious. Stallman has been preaching the ethics of software and source code ever since he wrote the first Emacs source license.

And in my opinion the whole Linux versus GNU/Linux thing is a red herring anyway -- the real point is to make people aware of the ethical values of GNU. And arguing about the name in public is as good or better a way to do that than everyone agreeing to change the name wholesale.

So if you want to argue about the name, then cool. But don't assign the whole debate to Stallman's ego when the real debate is over how society should handle software.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Ponty]

Then you should call it Lindows or Debian or RedHat. Linux contributes a small amount of functionality, so does GNU. It takes a distribution to sew them all up together. My operating system is based on Mach, uses BSD and GNU tools. And I call it Mac OS X.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[kevinank]

Now that folks are beating you over the head with sensible arguments, you want to revise what that debate is.

No actually, I was not trying to revise what the debate is, but to bring up what it was always about. I say this purely as an impartial observer who watched the original argument over first Lignux, then GNU/Linux as it happened. My own views fall pretty evenly on both sides of the debate; I think that the name GNU/Linux is stupid (having gone so far as to delete the 'GNU/' from all of the pages I sometimes maintain on Wikipedia except for one reference to the controversy), but I think that Stallman is basically standing on strong ethical ground as regards software.

Paraphrased, Stallman says that if you can share something of great benefit to your neighbor at no significant cost to yourself, then you are morally obliged to do so, and that laws and systems that prevent you from giving that aid are morally repugnant.

There is a point where you have to say "this is stupid." Not to go Kafka on you, but WHO CARES??? You might as well be having a pissing fight with Stallman about why he only uses his father's last name as his last name, and not include his mother's.

I believe it is precisely to find out 'who cares' that was the core reason that Stallman pushed the GNU/Linux and Free Software controversy.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Eminor]

Then wouldn't it be called BSD/Linux?

Kinda expensive

[GigsVT]

Considering the C3 933Mhz is slower than a PIII 400.

Re:Kinda expensive

[binaryDigit]

Yeah, but it still beats an iBook by 50% (pricewise, anyways)

Nope, the chart is wrong, they were comparing to the PowerBook, NOT the iBook. The iBook only costs $999 in a comparable configuration (the lowest end).

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand where 50% comes from. A 700 MHz iBook is running at $999 at the Apple store, the computer they pull a comparison to is the new G4 Powerbook in the iBook form factor.

So, a $200 difference, plus another 128 meg SODIMM. Not quite as bad all of a sudden.

Also, I just realized that this machine they are selling is a true sub-notebook and doesn't include an optical media drive. That won't go over well, I've never seen a person be satisfied with PCMCIA CD-ROM solutions..

Re:Kinda expensive

[Speed Racer]

Don't forget that the iBook weighs 4.9 pounds. 2 pounds at that size is quite a difference. Still, I'd probably prefer the iBook with the built-in DVD/CD-RW.

Re:Kinda expensive

[dasmegabyte]

Besides which, you can't compare a VIA C2 to a G4. Hell, even comparing it to a G3 is sort of like comparing a scooter to a Harley. Of COURSE it's half the price...it's less than half the machine!

And it begs the question: why are we supposed to trust a company that can't even get it's own marketing straight? They're just a company with a name that's a bad pun on the most effectively marketed operating system ever...I'd put more stock in AmigaOS. At least Amiga is trying it's own thing.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Xunker]

Slower at what?

Floating point? Yes, much slower (owing to half-speed FPU and Cyrix's regretable design).

But what else? I have a machine next to me that has a Via C3-866; In WinStones and Sysmarks it easily paces my Celery 850; Though in Q3A, the Via is laughable in comparison.

No, the Via C3 is not a gamers machine, but in basic use it's adequate for Joe user (and it uses less than a quarter of the power of your PII-400!)

Re:Kinda expensive

[zsmooth]

That won't go over well, I've never seen a person be satisfied with PCMCIA CD-ROM solutions..

Not to defend this Lindows laptop because personally I think it looks crappy, but I have a ThinkPad X21 subnotebook and I haven't missed an optical drive one bit. If I ever need to install anything, it goes over the network.

That said I'd buy the iBook over this thing in a second...

Re:Kinda expensive

[Greedo]

And the iBook (even the cheapest) has an internal CD drive (or DVD/CD-R), which you'd have to buy seperately if you wanted one of these Lindows notebooks.

Not to knock them ... it looks like a reasonably good price for a half-decent system. You aren't gonna play Doom III on it, but if I needed a tiny, light, mid-range powered, Linux notebook, I'd be interested.

Re:Kinda expensive

[druske]

FYI, I sent Lindows a note on the iBook mistake on their feedback page... the one that tells you that you WON'T receive a response, and even has an autoresponder to follow up with a response, which, er, tells you again that you won't receive a response.

So, naturally, a couple hours later I received a response. :)

The encouraging bit is not just that a human read the message and took a moment to send a response, but also that they thanked me for the heads-up and said they'd pass the information on to their marketing department.

Now marketing folks are sometimes just a pitchfork away from the embodiment of pure evil, but it is also possible that this was an honest mistake. Let's give them a little time to straighten it out and see what happens.

Re:Kinda expensive

[puck01]

Considering this deal to be had at dell right now. I'd have to agree. # Celeron 1.6GHz, 256MB RAM, 20GB HD for $595.

puck

Re:Kinda expensive

[Syre]

Actually, it would appear to be faster for many applications.

here are some benchmarks.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Ryan Amos]

Uh, pardon? This is either a troll or a 12 year old idiot. 99.9% of linux stuff will work on a mac actually, just download gcc and it'll compile natively. There's even a port of apt to OS X to handle all that crap for you. Anyway, wasted enough of my time on this post...

I'd still rather have an iBook

[Shinzaburo]

Given that you can find iBooks for just a bit more (around $999), I think I'd rather have the Aqua interface.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[binaryDigit]

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it. You also get a more stable OS, stable in the sense that you don't have to worry about compatability issues. You get a built-in cd, which for some people is a significant plus (though some don't need it as well). Also notice that there is no mention of battery life. Also, where do you take your Lindows machine if you're having problems? Apple has places everywhere to do repairs, etc. You get MacOSX with several built in apps (iPhoto, iMovie, etc) that are arguably better (usuabillity, integration, not necessarily more powerful) than anything you are going to get for free for Lindows as well.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Peace of mind, it's a well constructed notebook with a rubber-suspended harddrive, rugged design (designed with kids throwing them into backpacks and taking them on school busses).

I also can have 802.11.. And a combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive.

On top of it all, I get OSX, which is Unix for the Masses. Something Linux wants to be, but falls short of in a few categories. For portable computing, I have different priorities than the desktop. For a fast desktop, I want power and control. For a laptop, I want simplicity, ease-of-use, even if it's a touch slower.

Oh, and I forgot. iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Kiwi]

Considering that the ibook you mentioned weights almost as much as the Thinkpad I am typing this on (cite), this is not a fair comparison. The rule of thumb is this: if you want ultimate portability on a system which can run Linux, you have to pay through the nose for it. Until now, that is.

- Sam

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Aaargh.

I use an iBook, and I love it. It's a great machine and I'm glad I spent the money (a little more that $999, since I bought it last year, and I maxed out the RAM, which was a worthwhile expenditure IMO.) If anyone asks me "what kind of laptop should I buy?" an iBook is usually at the top of my recommendation list.

But.

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead. Linux story: a bunch of comments about how you should use OS X. OS X story: ditto, but from the Linux side. MySQL/PostgreSQL: duuude, MySQL/PostgreSQL sucks, use PostgreSQL/MySQL instead. Any story about programming language X: Language X 5ux0rz, Language Y r0x0rz. Et bloody cetera.

Different people want different tools for different tasks. Deal with it.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[g4dget]

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it.

I have an 800MHz C3 and a 600 MHz iMac (not too different from a 933MHz C3 vs. a 700MHz iBook): the C3 is indeed slower than the iMac in terms of raw CPU performance, but the GUI and applications actually run faster on the C3. Keep in mind that systems X11 were originally developed for machines like 8MHz 68k systems with a few megabytes of RAM. OSX, on the other hand, is really pushing the envelope in terms of system requirements.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Captain Large Face]

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead.

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[cowmix]

I am running Linux on a 733 C3 and it is very slow. Where it really shows its slothness is when you do something like SSH. The key exchange seems to take eons.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Dynedain]

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)

Pico!

Yet for $699...

[wo1verin3]

Yet for $699 you can get this Dell Inspiron with a Celeron 1.6, GeForce2Go 16mb video, and more.... add 128MB to bring it up to the same price and you can load on your own Linux Install. Why are we doing Lindows marketing for something that isn't really that great of a deal if you shop around?

Re:Yet for $699...

[dartboard]

The Dell Inspiron you quote is 6.8lbs -- roughly 2.5 times the size of the Lindows PC. I'd say that's a significant difference, wouldn't you?

Re:Yet for $699...

[jonnythan]

That Dell is almost 7 pounds. That's a big notebook.

This Lindows thing is less than 3 pounds. That's a massive (ha, ha) difference. The way I see it, it's not such a bad deal for such a tiny notebook that still has a nice sized screen, especially when you toss in built-in super handy CompactFlash.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Bluetick]

And, despite it's large size, the Dell doesn't have USB 2.0 or Firewire, not to mention that the Lindows one has both.

Okay, the Dell is moderately faster. But it's not as flexible, nor is it a 'subnotebook' (I don't know why they call it subnotebook, makes you think they're targetting it for subhumans).

Re:Yet for $699...

[arvindn]

isn't really that great of a deal if you shop around?

You said it yourself. People's time is valuable.

Re:Yet for $699...

[BMonger]

Also $699 is the "base price"... if you try to configure a system for $699 it's almost next to impossible. I tried to configure that system and there is nothing on the first page that tells me that switching out an option will either lower or raise the price. Clicking continue gives me a price of $1,277... I have no idea where they get their $699 prices from... frankly I find Dell's pricing scheme very misleading.

Re:Yet for $699...

[evilviper]

My Sotec notebook is 4LBS, has a built-in combo DVD/CD-RW, 256MB of RAM, 20GB HD, etc. All that was $750, and it has a 1.2GHz Celeron, not a piece of crap VIA-C3, which performs like it's less than half it's own clock-speed.

Re:Yet for $699...

[cdrudge]

Follow the grandparent's link, click the blue "Recommended Systems". Right under the phone of the laptop there is a link that says "Inspiron 2650C starting at $699". Click it. That takes you to a page that has the laptop for $849 - $150 rebate = $699. You can customize it from there.

This link takes you straight to that page. Here is the same laptop that is $806-$150 rebate (not shown on that page but on another that leads to that page). The extra $$$ off is due from their Employee Purchase Program that anyone can get thru.

Re:Yet for $699...

[DrinkDr.Pepper]

One note is that $50 of the $150 rebate you only get if you also sign up for high speed internet.

Graphics chipsets

[jmertic]

Any idea what graphics chipset these use? The specs left that out ( usually means it's a bad one ).

Re:Graphics chipsets

[bsharitt]

I'm guesing it's good enough for word processing and web browsing, which is okay since I'm guessing this isn't a gaming note book.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[BMonger]

From http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Produ ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

Integrated Savage 4 AGP 4X graphic core (up to 16MB Video Memory)

Re:Graphics chipsets

[skeedlelee]

Not sure what they're using off hand, but looking at motherboards that use the 933MHz C3, they usually have some sort of hardware acceleration such that you can watch DVD's on them. As far as 3D abilities, they're typically pretty crappy. Given that this is probably aimed at people who want to write a paper and surf the web, maybe listen to MP3's or a CD this is probably sufficient.

Actually, for a subnotebook, light weight computer this may be a good deal. I'm still using a pentium (one!) notebook as it is small enough and light enough to do what I need it to do. I'm mostly curious about battery life. I know the C3's also came in a low power/low heat flavor (passive cooling is fine), I've got to wonder if that was just too crappy to use or something. Light with a long battery and enough power to write a paper/work on a talk while listening to music would be enough to get me to shell out less than $1k, no problemo.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[kriston]

All Via C3s are low power/low heat. The 933 MHz model is exceptionally fast for its power and heat requirements. The chipset is the integrated Via ProSavage (the old S3 stuff) which has specific acceleration support for MPEG (DVD) decoding. I build systems based on this processor and they are excellent for everything except 3d gaming, and I've never seen anyone expect to do 3d gaming on a notebook PC for under $2500, anyway.

KRis

Yeah, but....

[LordYUK]

How long till someone gets a linux distro to run on it? oh wait...

Windows?

[SirDrinksAlot]

Can you load Windows onto it? :-)

Competetive comparison

[BMonger]

I don't know all the much but their iBook comparison is off... I think they have Powerbook and iBook specs combined into one notebook... the iBook has a G3 chip not a G4 and I don't think it has PCMCIA slots either...

Who else brands this one?

[magarity]

Obviously this is an OEM model made by someone else (probably VIA themselves). Lindows doesn't have enough market pull to have a custom model made to their own specs. So I bet it is already selling like hotcakes in Southeast Asia with someone else's name on it and Windows installed. Does any recognise it?

Re:Who else brands this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Taiwan company name Aamax Technology Co., Ltd.

From their site (google cached):

Specially Package
eNOTE OEM Notebook

12.1" Poly-Si TFT/
C3-933 LVM CPU, VIA Chipset
256MB/20GB/56K/LAN/WXP

For more information, please contact with us ASAP.

This not on their website anymore.

Their comparison chart sucks

[binaryDigit]

They totally botched the iBook entry in their little comparison chart. They are comparing to the PowerBook not the iBook. You can get a 700mhz iBook for $999, much better comparison. Makes you wonder about their other choices.

idot computers manufactures them

[net_bh]

Here is the CNET news item

Here is a link to the Idot website.

Here is a link to the Gearzoo website.

933 MHz C3 isn't that good

[pz]

A 933 MHz C3 is approximately equivalent, in real-world horsepower, to a 550 MHz Pentium (on integer tasks, much worse for floating-point). The C3 is not a high-performance architecture, although it has been tweaked for very low power consumption.

Re:933 MHz C3 isn't that good

[mrklin]

I would say it is better than that. I use a VIA C3 900 Mhz processor in a Shuttle small form factor PC (SV24) at home. It uses so little power that it does not require a CPU fan.

It is sufficient enough to do the following without problem:

• Decode MPEG-2 i.e. playback DVD or VOB files.
• Encode and decode MP3.
• Generally Office tasks and web surfing.
• Even gaming (with older games like Counterstrike) if paired up with a decent graphic card.

What it does not well (at least for me):

Encode MPEG-2.

Handle or manipulate large files (800+ MB high bitrate DivX file, apply Photoshop filter to a TIFF file etc, etc). (This is with 512 MB RAM and a large fast driveXP.)

New games that are CPU intensive.

If you have to seriously ask 'Will this have enough power for my (insert task here)?' then a C3 is probably not for you.

$800 is too much to pay for that anyway although I like its hardware specs (both firewire and USB).

Bizarro-world /. post

[NineNine]

And what I want to know... will it run Windows 2000? If it can, I'm all over it. That's not a bad deal.

Re:So?

[dartboard]

So does that behemoth weigh in at 2.9lbs as well? More like 8lbs you say? Ahh I see so they aren't really comparable at all! Glad you straightened us out, thanks!

Re:Via processor

[eggz128]

A quick google suggests that it's quite comparable to a 900MHz Celeron

Lindows...

[zzxc]

While the Lindows laptop is meant for consumers, I don't think it will sell very well. Why? Because most people who would buy a linux computer want a distribution made for power.

The only real market share it would get would be non-computer-literate people who want to use their computers for very limited purposes.

The laptop may also attract people who want to install another linux distribution on it, however.

Wouldn't it be nice if....

[old_skul]

...if some nice hardware company, like an HP or a Dell, would produce a low-cost laptop similar to this with *your choice* of distro preconfigured?

No, wait, no one reading /. would want to own one. Instead, wouldn't it be nice if they would sell you a laptop with *no* O/S installed, for $400 less than usual?

I'd buy one.

Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[jo_ham]

The second column is titled "ibook" incorrectly (missing the capital even) when the specs in the boxes are clearly for the 12" Powerbook.

As much as I want my iBook to have an 867Mhz G4, it's just not on the cards. All iBooks have G3 processors at 700 or 800MHz, and they cost a darn sight less than $1,700 - the most expensive 12" iBook is $1,300 and blows this Lindows things out of the water.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[SubtleNuance]

as much as ApPpLe would like you to throw away your common sense and buy their Brand Related Experience, calling something an IBook or iBook or IBOOK is ridiculous. ibook yes, Ibook maybe, but IBoOk? no.

fuck marketroids and their IbooK.

OT: mini-itx

[NorthDude]

Have you considered installing a mini-itx board?
They are VERY small board with every thing integrated onto it.
They are made by VIA and are actually quite cheap!

Re:Lindows is a scam!

[rcamera]

"lindows is a gigantic pile of shit... not because the product is exactly horrible, but because of the smarmy brainless dipshit slimeball assbags who are promoting it"

always nice to see an unopinionated technical review of this caliber.

What!?

[Idou]

"The Dell Inspiron you quote is 6.8lbs -- roughly 2.5 times the size of the Lindows PC."

That's roughly 2.5 times more 'puter for you money!

Looks like you dun made yourself a fool.

$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Wasn't it just a few days ago that someone on "Ask Slashdot" was looking for a value-priced notebook whose purchase price did not include the Microsoft tax?

This really is a breakthrough, despite it being LindowsOS. This is, perhaps, the first time you can buy a truly Linux-preloaded notebook, as opposed to some of those other "boutique" shops where a Linux machine costs 50-100% more than the same machine loaded with Windows from a first-tier vendor (usually because they simply bought the machine from one of those first-tier vendors and then threw away the Windows license).

But as usual, Slashdotters will find something to complain about. I'm not complaining. As enamoured as I am with my ThinkPad (which I bought used), if I were in the market for a notebook computer right now, I'd give this one some serious consideration.

This is the first time in history that a notebook vendor isn't charging you more for a computer with an operating system that costs less. Even if the very first thing you do is erase LindowsOS and install RedHat, this is still a significant milestone.

Lindows is satan..

[xchino]

I would never suggest Lindows for ANYONE. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea. I was super hyped about it being sold on cheap wal-mart PCs. Then I checked it out for myself. Here's what I found that I didn't like...

It always runs under single user mode. IRC somewhere, and you IRC as root. STUPID.

Click'n'Run doesn't work until you subscribe. Then you get to pay for all your software that you could have installed as easily with any other package manger, and a few commercial versions of free software.

That's where they went wrong IMHO. I can understand the financial reason for the Click'n'Run situation, but I see no justification for crippling Linux security to such an extent. I was hoping for a version of Linux that my Windows friends could use. Instead I got a generic version of Windows.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[alienw]

Apparently, you are retarded. I think the things you mention have been adressed about a million times already.

First, the running-as-root idea was smart. The slashdot masses need to understand that people do NOT want to fuck with passwords, usernames, and that shit on their PC. On a server, fine, but not on a PC.

You don't install a super-secure keycard system for every room in your house, do you? That would be fucking annoying, and would at most protect you from yourself. That's about what the regular distributions are set up like. That does not make them any more secure. If you don't have many users on the system, then you don't need the unix password system and you might as well run as root. Yes, you need to have external services shut off, but Lindows is very good in that regard. So, care to enlighten me about how to hack a system with no open ports and a strict iptables config, even if it doesn't have a root password?

Besides, your argument is invalid in any case. If you don't want to run as root, you are free to create a normal account. Lindows supports that.

As for click and run, I have one word for you: easy. I subscribe to Mandrakeclub for the same reason. It makes it easier to get stuff for your distro. Yes, I could fuck with .tar.gz sources and get them to maybe run on my system, but I'd rather pay a few bucks so somebody else does the dirty work. What's the problem with that?

If you don't like Lindows, use Mandrake. I like them, but I can see where Lindows might fit in. The fact that something might not be intended for certain types of uses is a concept slashdot whores can't grasp.

This looks like an great laptop!

[Kiwi]

When I look for a laptop, I choose a laptop based on three factors:

• Cost (check)
• Size and weight (check)
• Full-size keyboard (I want one of these things in front of me to make sure the keyboard is almost as good the one on the Thinkpad I am writing this on)
• Battery life (check)
• Linux compatibility (check)

Note that performance is not listed here; I am typing this on a PIII 450 and am more than happy with its performance. I want a laptop which does not need charging and does not need a forklift to carry around. If I wanted performance or the latest gee-whiz 3d chipset, I would get a desktop.

If the economy was better and I was working again instead of being a student, this is something I would very seriously consider buying. As it stands, this is my dream laptop.

- Sam

Review of Lindows

[lwbecker2]

In case you haven't seen any reviews of Lindows, a recent review can be found here.

Compared to a PDA?

[Treebeard the Ent]

How can for compare a laptop PC to a PDA? I certaily hope my PDA doesn't have a 12.1" screen or a full sized keyboard sticking out of it (although you can buy one to plug into it) 20 gig hd? nope, but you don't need that much with your PDA (unless you're using it as an MP3 Player too).

It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't. Our oranges are great for making orange juice... apples are not. Our oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.

Bad chipset choice

[Erwos]

I wasn't even aware that the Savage4 had functional 3D-accelerated drivers. It's hard to say in good faith "this notebook supports Linux" if you can't even run a 3D app properly.

Nice try, but you could probably get a Dell laptop that's faster and cheaper despite the Windows tax. Sure, this one comes with Lindows, but that doesn't matter if the hardware support is not there...

-Erwos

Re:So the reason this was posted was....

[los furtive]

Uhm......no.

I'm just a regular Java developing shmoe located in frigid Canada, who first saw this article on The Register and since Slashdot is USA-centric, not to mention very supportive of anything to do with Linux for the people, I figured it was worth submitting since a lot of people might have missed it and would be very interested. I do not have anything to gain from this, and have no vested interest in either Slashdot, Lindows, Via or any other company mentioned in the post.

I hope this little reply helps shed some light on things, and my I suggest in the future that you take the time to write a proper link?

Oh, and for the record, while I agree an iBook would be close to the same thing, with better brand name recognition...it still costs $200 more, and weighs more too (I could be wrong on this one). Another reason why I submitted this story was that only 3 weeks ago I purchases a Toshiba Portege 4000, which cost about twice the price for similar features, and weighs a pound more! I was hoping somebody might see this and save a buck...although I must admit I'm very satisfied with my Portege.

A good sign

[JavaJoint]

This is good because it starts to focus attention on an emerging LinLap market.

I find their ad to be slightly misleading. First they say this:

"High-speed wireless service is cropping up everywhere - "Starbucks," college campuses and anywhere people gather. Staying connected to your data whenever and wherever you need it is smart and Lindows.com answers the call with its brand new Lindows Mobile PC..."

And then they say: " plus a PCMCIA slot to add even more functionality such as wireless networking"

...So wireless is not standard, though their promo material will throw off a few. Interesting that a modem is optional too. I predict that within a year we'll see a laptop with similar specs with a modem and 802.11b, running Red Hat, for $850, from a "name brand" vendor.

Who makes this laptop?

Misinformation

[smcavoy]

It's a PowerBook their comparing their system to, which is no comparison at all. The PoweBook smokes it in everyway (except of course price), it's like comparing a BWM M3 to a Hyundai Tiberon...
And they forgot that the 12.1" PowerBook DOESN'T have a PCMCIA slot.
And a comparison to a PDA? WTF? can you stick the laptop in your jacket or pant pocket? NO!
Do real people decide between a PDA and laptop? That seems nuts, both provide completely different user experiences....

Fine it's a cheap laptop that's M$ free, but get the facts straight.

Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[juuri]

Standard laptop PeeCee parts so enjoy putting whatever OS on it you want:

PC-UM10 from sharp

Sharp 2.9lb laptop: P3-600, 128meg ram, 20gig drive

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[epukinsk]

I was drooling over the Sharp PC-UM10/30 ultra-lights a few months ago. That was before I met one in the flesh at Circuit City.

These machines are amazingly thin and amazingly light. I'm sure they are a joy to have in your lap. That is, as long as you don't have to type. The keyboard is disgusting. I'm a little spoiled because I'm used to my Thinkpad 600x, but my hands started to cramp up within minutes of typing on the Sharp. After typing a half a page of text, my fingers were crying for me to go back to my Thinkpad.

That, and the thing feels pretty flimsy (price you pay for 0.7" thickness). My love affair with the Actius line is over.

Erik

Robertson is incapable

[presearch]

Nice ripoff of Apple's web site look and feel.
Seems like Robertson is incapable of doing anything
without leveraging off of somebody else's efforts.
Linux, W/Lindows, mp3.com. What an info-age parasite.

Lack of Internal CD

[ackthpt]

The lack of an internal CD, on my Sony Vaio 505TX was a major source of angst. Consider hooking up something hanging off a cable, with an external powersupply, slightly wider (squared) than a CD and 5/8" or more thick and how to place/dangle it while using this on your lap. I'd never consider another laptop w/o internal CD. Now I'm sure you can find a nice little laptop somewhere with a CD, and comperable to this and slap Lindows or RH or whatever and you'd be happy as a clam.

Pre-installed Linux

[BroncoInCalifornia]

As a business Lindows is doing a lot of things right.

They are getting their Linux pre-installed on PC's. This is a big deal. Most people would not or could not install an OS. Pre-installed Linux is the only way to penetrate the desktop market.

Lindows also getting sued by MSFT to get a lot of publicity.

Is Robertson made of the same stuff as Bill Gates?

Selective marketing

[JonathanF]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed that they used the specs for the 12" PowerBook in place of the iBook; how fair is a comparison like that... to the Lindows system (or the others, really)? The 12" PowerBook is probably one of the faster and most full-featured laptops in the class, so of course it's going to cost $1799.

The worst part is that it's evident that Lindows isn't just exaggerating the value of their system - they're blatantly trying to deceive people into thinking that they have the only affordable small-sized laptop in existence. One wonders if they think that the $999 iBook only exists in a parallel universe!

No matter how much the cost or weight might be appealing, I can only see this laptop as being a nightmare for anyone who isn't technically experienced. Imagine some middle-aged couple trying to get an Internet connection, for example, or to get their USB printer to work. They probably wouldn't get much help at all from any company outside of Lindows, and "go check out the Ars Technica Linux forum" (as another example) is not going to help when many support-dependent people aren't even savvy enough to recognize when they have something like Windows XP! No matter what you might think of Macs, they at least have some official support beyond their manufacturer.

Re:Selective marketing

[Dynedain]

And apple is trying to decieve people into thinking they have the only small-sized full-pwered laptop in existance. hmmmm....

Anyways...its clear that apple introduced the 12" powerbook because they're gonna kill off the iBook line...the only reason why the iBook is still around is to get rid of all those old G3 chips they still have in inventory...the high end iBook is verrrry similiar to the 12" powerbook

Re:Selective marketing

[MyHair]

It needs a catchy name! How about "Lapenguin"? (get it, lap+penguin, Ok, you try...)

Penix?

Nehemiah-core C3 processors?

[bstadil]

Anyone know what C3 core the notebook is using.

There is the old Ezra and the new Nehemiah. The latter uses full speed FP (Ezra runs a half the processor speed = reason for being so slow on most benchmarks)

If it is upgradable this might be a pretty good deal after all. The CPU sells for $35+ or so.

More infor on Via C3 chip here

The thing that has me interested

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Is how friendly the hardware is to alternative OSes?

It's got (a kind of) Linux on it, how well would BeOS, or OS/2 or some other *nix distro install on it?

Would the alt.OS drivers be easily available?

The last sublaptop I got was so damn windows only I couldn't even get BeOS or Mandrake to complete an install, much less find drivers for it.

I would find this good news simply for the alt.OS crowd.

No CDROM, no floppy, better have a network

[dzerkel]

$799 is fine, but doesn't include either a CDROM or floppy. A USB CDROM is at least $100. And you would have to carry it around in addition to the laptop, adding the weight.

An all-in-one solution might make more sense, there are a lot of them out there.

$800 is way too expensive

[newsdee]

Since you can get a free Linux for any PC, you have to consider the extra hardware benefit that you get with this laptop.

- For $200 more, you can buy a new entry-level P4 laptop or an iBook.

- For almost the same price you can build a Mini-ITX system running at 933 Mhz with a 15" flatscreen monitor. With this option, you can further reduce the price if you have some spare parts (Hard Drive, DDR Ram, USB/Firewire CD drive, etc).

Of course the second choice is not as "portable" (no working on bus/trains/planes), but if you're broke and need a solid PC, it's a good entry-level choice. :-) I just built one instead of buying a laptop and saved $400 by reusing old parts. And yes, it fits in my backpack :-)

You've gotta be kidding me...

[maynard]

You can't run Linux apps on an iBook.

$ make clean; make; make install

Or for that matter, just install fink.

I've been running Linux and BSD on my home machines since '94. Finally got sick of maintaining those installs instead of doing work with the computer (and happen to need MS Office to exchange xls spreadsheets with my CPA)... what did I buy? I Macintosh. Why? Because OS X has all the 'NIX software I could possibly want, very easy system management (meaning I'm not wasting my time dicking around with the computer), and the readability of the fonts are simply better than anything out there. Claiming there's no "linux" software, when just about everything includes source and will compile properly under OS X, really misses the point. Also, the battery life of a powerbook is excellent. 5 hours/charge for the 15", 4.5 hours/charge for the 17". I absolutely love this computer. Apple finally did it right. Of course, I used to love the NeXT Station on my desk many years back, so call me biased. --M

Re:PCMCIA slots or PC-card slots?

[williw]

PCMCIA slots == PC-Card slots.

a quick search for google should reveal your answers: a sample primer

in the case of unuable/newer/older cards; only the PCMCIA controller's adherence to whatever version of the PCMCIA standard was around when it was manufactured will determine if the card will work or not. ISA or PCI is irrelevant since the controller can be attached to either bus type. If you have an older controller chip you probably can't use the newer 3.3v/ cardbus/ dma cards, etc cause they weren't written into the specification yet.

Just another X-Book?

[Mnemennth]

At first, upon looking at this unit, I said - "Oh, its just a downsized X-Book... but after looking into it - more details can be seen here -

http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Pro du ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

I see it's quite a bit worse. Unlike the X-Book, they do include a battery, so it is REALLY a notebook computer, and the list of features is actually not too bad, until you notice that the CDRW/DVD drive that is built into an X-Book for around $700-$800 is not only external, but optional as well. Further investigation into the C3 processor they "compare" to other laptops revealed why they made sure the DVD drive was not included. See these reviews at Tom's Hardware -

http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020605/index .h tml

With benchmarks showing actual computing power somewhere in the neighborhood of a Celeron 500 or less, it probably lacks the power to play a DVD worth a damn, and I'd guess that's why they don't include the drive - Joe Numbnutz buys this $800 tinkertoy, pops in his favorite WWF DVD, and it plays like crap - they'll be getting them back as fast as they can ship them out. However, at 12W total dissipation, this VIA C3 should be fairly stingy with battery power, and should provide Joe with plenty of power for surfing his favorite porn sites. The built-in CF socket is a nice touch, though I'd rather have a Type 3 PCMCIA slot, and I for one am not willing to trade my DVD Drive for a battery.

Overall, the major offense is the marketing of a (guesses) $4 933 MHZ VIA C3 processor as if it were in any way comparable to the processors in those real notebooks. Essentially, its an Internet Appliance with a battery - and at $800, Joe is definitely getting hosed.

My two bits worth,

Mnem
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - PT Barnum

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[Ponty]

Linux knocked over my mailbox yesterday. Then it went out and sold my cousin an underpowered machine. Damned Linux! I wish it wouldn't go and do things that a kernel isn't supposed to be able to do.

Better comparison

[Bobartig]

Lindows MobilePC - Apple iBook

Price: $800 / $1000

Processor: 933Mhz C3 / 700Mhz G3

Memory: 256MB PC133 / 128MB PC100
(Max Mem, 768MB / 640MB)

HDD: 20GB / 20GB
(Max HD 40GB / 40GB)

Weight: 2.9 lbs / 4.9 lbs

Size: 0.91"x10.43"x8.66" / 1.35"x11.2"x9.06"

Optical Drive: external / internal CD-ROM

USB: 2xUSB 2.0 / 2xUSB 1.1

Firewire: 1 / 1

Graphics: Savage4 16MB shared/ Radeon 7500 16MB

Screen: both 12.1 TFT 1024x768 res

External Video: not specified / VGA output with optional composite

LAN: both 100BT

Modem: optional / 56k v.92

PCMCIA: yes / no

Integrated Wireless: no / yes (optional)

OS: Lindows 3.0 / MacOSX 10.2

Software: D'load free apps via Click-and-Run / Bundled AppleWorks 6, Quicken 2003, FAXstf, iApps, Browsers

Warranty: 2 years / 1 year (3 year optional)

I'd love to have a > 3 lb. tiny subnote for browsing and veggin' on the couch... but for a real productivity machine, the iBooks still wins out for me. Still, wouldn't mind playing around with one!

why did they add in the pda comparison

[towaz]

Maybe its just me but what was the point of compairing a laptop to a pda. Laptops are good for a lot of things but pda's also have advantages.

just seems a dumb comparison

C3 vs. Crusoe?

[steveha]

If you benchmark a 933 MHz Crusoe chip laptop (such as a Fujitsu Lifebook P2120) versus a 933 MHz C3 chip, which would win?

Both are low-power. The Crusoe is even-lower-power than the C3. I know raw CPU power isn't the reason why a person buys a laptop, but I'm still curious.

You will pay more for the Lifebook, but it also has better 3D hardware (Mobility Radeon vs. Savage). That might make a big difference if you want to play Counter-strike or something, if the CPUs are at all similar in computing power.

I used a K6-III/450 for years, and I suspect that either the C3 or the Crusoe will be just fine for web surfing and such.

steveha

Re:C3 vs. Crusoe?

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a C3 800 and it will run circles around a Crusoe of the same MHz. Crusoe is basically a failure. C3 is the world's smallest x86 core, it's almost as low power as a crusoe (we're talking a small milliwatt difference here). And VIA C3 gets you more MIPS per Watt than any other x86. (about 50% more power per MIPS than a StrongARM though). Think of a VIA C3 as a 486 on steroids (but capable of using the full instruction set). The FPU on the C3 is pretty wimpy (crusoe's complete lack of a true FPU makes it extremely wimpy). The FPU is going to be half-speed(or worse) of your typical celeron/p-iii.

If you are interested in a C3, but don't want this laptop get one of the VIA EPIA-800 motherboards for about $100. (Or one of the newer EPIAs for more money)

Lindows = Apple?

[BladeMelbourne]

Has anyone noticed that the Lindows site looks very similar to the Apple web site?

And the green running man in a circle looks similar to the Ximian (monkey?) logo.

Lindows should get an "original" graphic designer. I think they are good for the Linux movement though.

Playing with one right now.

[markw365]

I'm sitting here looking at one, and it's a slick little machine. No floppy or cd, but it _WILL_ netboot so installing Debian won't be that hard. It has an RTL 8139 chipset, so hopefully JHRIV compiled that into the kernel image so we don't have to do a custom tftp kernel to install debian on the thing. Slick little notebook however. :)

Kinda Cheap

[shepd]

...Considering it should have about 10x the battery life of the average notebook running at just under 1 Ghz that doesn't use a C3.

A C3 933 isn't anyware near as slow as that, anyways. If it were, the 666 C3 I used should be about the speed of a PIII 266. It's nowhere near that crappy (it could play DVDs while I surfed the net -- no PIII 266 could ever do that [of course, that would be if they existed]), and that's amazing considering it's a PC Chips board.

Plus it's silent. Tell me what speed a P4 runs at when it's silent (hint: It's less than 1/2 of it's normal speed, which is already 10% - 20% slower than the equivalent PIII in Mhz)?

There's a lot to like about the C3 processor. It's just not for gaming/scientific number crunching. But how many subnotebooks do you know that are replacing gaming rigs or Crays?