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Mandrake Linux... Not Dead Yet?
bloodeu writes "Mandrake Linux has been beaten down by linux experts alike, but this new release of Mandrake may hold many promising Linux users
what they have been waiting for, like NTFS resizing(which is a first), Automatic Network config(zeroconf), Supermount, and
many more. You can download the Mandrake 9.1 RC1 Here"
Mandrake is great. They've really built something that's useful in its own right, and provides many useful things back into the community. Maybe it's not for you, but it's a great place to start for a lot of people. A nice introduction.
The problem is, Mandrake as a business is like a comedy of errors. All sorts of crazy problems, some of which were outside their control, and some that could (and should) have been avoided in the first place. 20/20 hindsight is nice, so I can't carp too much, but if they could get their shit together for just one release (no distribution problems; keep the paying club members happy, and get them a box before it's been on shelves for 3 months), I think things could turn around in a hurry.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
I've Been Using ...
....
9.1 Beta 2 for about a month and I have to say
it rocks
it is much beter than Mandrake 8.0....
it is by far the easiest distro I have ever used
and with the exception of Knoppix the easiest to install...:)
I personaly hope they survive....
all of the needed aps are there I only have few complaints....
1. I had to specially select Vi for install and emacs auto installed...(Flame away)..
2. Gnome meeting was not installed...by default
3. I am having trouble changing some of the default loggin, and boot manager stuff....
other than that....I give the 9.1 Beta 2 an A+
give it to any newbee they will be happy
--meh--
Mandrake is using ntfsresize which is part of the Linux-NTFS project.
This is the project that contributed the NTFS driver to the Linux kernel
The point is they only get a fraction of the money you spend at a retail store. It's divided up between the retail chain, the company which pressed the cds, Mandrake, and more than likely a middleman.
The distro has been dead for years, but I have yet to see a distro that is as easy to install as Corel Linux. IIRC, it prompted me maybe twice to make decisions about things, and had sensible defaults for the average user. If they had more fully exploited DHCP/DNS I think they could have gotten rid of one of those prompts (asking for a hostname).
Corel was, for all intents and purposes, a Debian for the average joe. I have yet to see any other distros approach the friendliness of it.
Resizing NTFS isn't as difficult as writing to it. The resizer only has to alter a few pieces of metadata. This is relatively safe.
Note that the resizer cannot defrag, yet, so it can only shrink NTFS partitions by the amount of free space you have.
Mandrake are using a 2.4 kernel patched with the new NTFS driver. This driver has limited *safe* write support. It can overwrite existing files (using write or mmap). This is enough to read-write loopback mount an NTFS file as a filesystem and use it as your root filesystem.
FlatCap (Rich)
ntfs at flatcap dot org
Linux NTFS Project
All new purchases from the Mandrake store and new release box sets will come with a one month complimentary subscription the MandrakeClub.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
I find it funny that so many people overlook urpmi. It's apt-get for rpms. It can retrieve packages from cdrom, or the internet and handles dependencies automatically.
Xandros already supports resizing NTFS partitions.
I thought would point out that Redat 8.1 Beta 3 is also out.
t /2 003-February/002969.html
You can see the anouncement here
https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/phoebe-lis
Its got Gnome 2.2, KDE 3.1, kernel 2.4.20, OpenOffice 1.02, CUPS as default, etc
So far I've found some bugs and the occasional app crash, but its shaping up to be real nice. Speed is better than 8.0, mostly due to the new kernel I suspect. (RH 8.0 sped up a lot for me by going to 2.4.20) Its great to see Redhat finally actually trying to put out a good desktop and the effort is really paying off. One last thing I've mentioned before, I pitty the distro that doesn't ship with as good a font setup as Redhat uses. They'll get put to the wall for it and rightly so. Its high time that not a single distro ships with shitty fonts anymore.
Anyway its worth a look if you have the bandwidth.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
The biggest difference between Mandrake and Red Hat is urpmi. urpmi is the packaging system that Mandrake employees, and just about every desirable program is available (after a little setup) with a simple:
a ke/9.0/i586/Mandrake/RPMS with ../base/hdlist.cz
a ke/9.0/contrib/RPMS with synthesis.hdlist2.cz
urpmi (packagename)
First though, it's very handy to setup urpmi so that it never requests the installation CDs, but rather gets the packages via the internet. Here's what I do immediately after installing Mandrake:
1. Remove the three CD-based package sources:
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 1 (x86) (cdrom1)"
urpmi.removemedia "Installation CD 2 (x86) (cdrom2)"
urpmi.removemedia "International CD (x86) (cdrom3)"
2. replace them with an FTP source:
urpmi.addmedia base-ftp ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
3. add the contrib source:
urpmi.addmedia contrib ftp://mirrors.secsup.org/pub/linux/mandrake/Mandr
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
4. add the plf software source:
urpmi.addmedia plf ftp://plf.chem.yorku.ca/pub/plf/9.0 with hdlist.cz
(That's a single command. It may appear wrapped.)
After those four steps (don't forget to su to root before you run them) you'll be able to easily install just about any program that you run across . It brings the installation ease that Debian users enjoy (via apt) to linux newbies in Mandrake. Redhat has nothing that can touch urpmi. The term "RPM Hell" exists for a reason -- RedHat.
Apache 1.3 is still present, but it's in the Contribs (separate download or extra CD in PowerPack).
What's more, you can install *both* versions, and with a simple command (advxrun1.3 or advxrun2.0), change from one to the other.
PHP 4.3.1 has been tested a lot, and we fixed most major bugs. I use it on production on several servers, and I find it more stable than the 4.2 series.
The parent post is complete B.S.
Yes, the Club Members will have a more complete list of mirrors, possibly including Club-Only mirrors.
But as far as I know (and I am a Mandrake employee, so I should know), Mandrake Linux 9.1 will be available for everyone on public mirrors.
Don't forget that it's 100% open-source, most of the stuff is GPL, so it has to be distributable by everyone.
That said, I strongly suggest our users become members of the Club, it's the best way to support our work.
"
- Allocate addresses without a DHCP server.
- Translate between names and IP addresses without a DNS server.
- Find services, like printers, without a directory server.
- Allocate IP Multicast addresses without a MADCAP server.
"Apple already uses this technology under the name RendezVous in Mac OS X.
As a Mac OSX user I can say that this techno does exactly what is supposed to (since RendezVous is deeply embedded in the system and some third party software, and Rendevous-enable products are available, it's a true real world benefits, not just a lab's experiment)
It's easy to understand the point when more OS, network devices, Consumer Devices (Philips is already doing prototypes), and P2P softwares (the mac version of Limewire is RendezVous enabled) will adopt the technology.
Xandros Deluxe also resizes NTFS with PQDisk, proprietary software by PowerDesk (the makers of Partition Manager).
Mandrake's market niche is getting squeezed at both ends, by Redhat working to make their system more user-friendly as well as by up-and-coming distros like Xandros working to make a simpler Linux experience. If RedHat decides to work more at their dependency/updating system (outdoing urpmi and apt rpm) for 9.0, Mandrake's niche will disappear.
Not frozen yet? Better go read again...
Quoting from the webpage:
RC1 - Feb, 19th 2003 Release notes:
Without touching off a flame war, I will have to disagree with:
Redhat has nothing that can touch urpmi.
There is a version of apt for RedHat-- Here's how to install and use it in RH 8:
Download and install these:
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/psyche/apt
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/psyche/apt
Make sure you're online, then, as root (or sudo)issue the following commands:
apt-get update
(You will see apt download package listings)
apt-get -f install
(This is to fix dependencies that will prevent apt from working.)
Your output should look something like this:
Reading Package Lists... Done
Collecting File Provides... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 removed and 0 not upgraded.
If your output is different, make sure that you know what you are doing before you let apt make changes to your system.
Now, do:
apt-get install synaptic
and run synaptic as root or sudo root. You now have a gui tool to resolve dependencies and install packages.
This was shamelessly stolen from an excellent article by Robert C. Dowdy on OSNews:
http://www.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=1890
God is imaginary
Here (195kB PNG) is a screenshot of Mandrake 9.1rc1 running Gnome with the Galaxy theme. I hae done almost no changes to Gnome (I don't usually use it), so this is pretty much how it looks currently out-the-box after changing to the Galaxy theme (which I assume will be enabled by default on rc2). The window decorations for KDE went in only a few days ago, wait till I update some stuff from cooker for a KDE screenshot.
My USB flash disk was detected automatically, just had to right-click on the desktop and check "removable" (in KDE an icon appears which you can just double-click). ACPI works (though I am not sure how much functionality my Thinkpad 600X supports). Note the ACPI is not enabled by default (acpi=off is in the default append for the bootloader) due to problems with desktops. Zeroconf works (ie over a crossover to a windows box I get a "auto-configuration"-compatible IP address and can resolve my own hostname via "dns"), but the gui tools need a bit more work (config only works during install currently), but my NIC does not support ifplugd, so I do not get automatic interface management.
I did make some changes to the fonts in Mozilla, which may have affected how Galeon displays.
We just hope that freetype-2.1.4 will be out in time to make it, since the maintainer will not agree to shipping CVS versions (which Redhat seems happy with, even with glibc to the point of breaking things like winbind - for those of you who think Mandrake is not stable).
Screenshot from PcLinuxOnline Forums
Get the rpms
wish to try it and report bugs, you won't regret it. In my experience they tend to have the fastest turn around I've ever seen fixing bugs. All of mine were fixed within 24hrs of reporting.
Liberty.
Here's my experience...
I bought their 7.2 version at Best Buy. I thought it was pretty easy to install and use. Then I started having problems with packages. It would get to the point where I would install, uninstall a package, or even refresh the list of installed packages, and the rpm database would get corrupted. Being a newb, I didn't know how to recover from this other than a reinstall (the menus were screwed up, the installed packages went missing, etc.). I installed the updates and even got their updated CD in the mail (after badgering them for a couple of weeks -- which I shouldn't have had to do since they promissed it to registered users -- they sent me a used copy with visible wear). Even after all the updates, I still got a corrupted rpm database. After this third time, I gave up on Mandrake for good. Even though I haven't touched Mandrake for a few years, I still get occasional spam from them. Serves me right for registering.
Maybe they have gotten better, maybe it's just my experience, but these are my reasons for not using Mandrake.
Well, apt-rpm and urpmi do the same thing, only apt-rpm does it better :). To me, apt-rpm and synaptic are godsends to the upkeep of my box (Mandrake 9.0). I didn't invest too much time in figuring out urpmi. It's configured to handle security updates quite well, but I didn't want to fiddle with it to go grab KDE 3.1. I know, someone's going to reply saying it's easy, just do blah, blah, but I grabbed the apt package, and the synaptic package from texstar rpms and I was up and running after one rpm -Uv command.
Great job, Mandrake! I've used Slackware (for quite a while) and Redhat, and I think Mandrake is the shit.
"Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
And if you do want to report bugs, they have BugZilla set up to make it really easy.
Sometimes it's difficult to determine which package things go in when reporting, but the developers have been very nice and helpful in moving my bugs around to the proper places. And as another comment mentioned, the turn-around time is quick.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
I tried out Redhat 8.0, and while I see the difference in focus between Redhat and Mandrake, I'm amazed at how LITTLE redhat came with. Nothing that can violate the MPEG licenses (no mp3, no xine, no mplayer, no video, no shit), nothing that can be construed as "fun" (this is BUSINESS LINUX).
What I'm really looking forward to is Mandrake with Xft2 font setup. That's what attracted me to RH8 in the first place was the nice anti-aliasing. In the end I went back to Mandrake 9, and compiled and installed the Xft2 stuff myself, then compiled kde3.1 from source (what a colossal pain!). The problem is replacing the non-xft2 libs with their xft2 counterparts borks up the kde3.0 installation from Mandrake. Plus now the Gnome-Pango setup is all borked and makes compiling Gnome stuff hard. I haven't gotten up the ambition to download and compile gnome 2.2 for myself.
I like linux, I do software development, but maybe I'm getting old I don't get much thrill anymore out of building the entire system myself from scratch. I like to put in the cd, run the installer, and have something nice and usable.
The RC1 was actually released last Wednesday, and that would be the day I installed it and got it running.
Fucking beautiful, except Wine keeps crapping out on me (expected considering it's still in bux-fix mode). Seriously, one of the reviews I read about Mandrake 9.0 was that they had evolved to a lot more of an "expensive" or "professional" look. While I'm sitting here hoping that the installer for RC1 is only a temporary thing and that they go back to the format they had for 8.2 and 9.0, I have to say that they actually outdid themselves for this release. Gnome 2.2 is slick, With a really _really_ nice new font set... New GnomeICU (one of the main programs I use) is a lot nicer than previous versions, etc. etc.
The only main problem I have is with the installer, which I'm guessing is because they're not quite done with it yet... It seems to be missing a whole thwack of packages that are on the CDs (Apache and Wine to name a couple) but all in all this distro is very very slick.
So I've pretty much decided now that I'm a bona-fide Mandrake user....
As soon as I garner up enough money I'm going to be sending in for a 9.1 boxed set... I'd honestly hate to see them go under, because as I see it they're offering me a really quality product.
Karma: Non-Heinous
Ok first of all it does matter a lot that they have these improvments and its NOT true that they aren't making money. They do have sources of income which for certain areas actually create a profit. The overall Mandrakesoft situation is different. Mostly because of their failed investments such as their Mandrake Online Learning plan. Once they go through bankruptcy and rescructure their spending they will be able to turn a real profit.
I dont understand why people are saying they are going away. The only place i hear about "Mandrake Linux is dying!" would be slashdot. I am surpirsed i dont see trolls more often screaming that since there are some good FUD opportunities here. If you read almost anywhere else about Mandrake all you see is people talking about the upcoming version which looks very good so far.
To address your first point last i will say that most definetly what they release matters. Even without an increase in income they can probably turn a profit so by releasing a better product they can get even more profit. You know... that's what business's do. If Mandrake can put in many more firsts for linux yet continues to improve their ease of use and auto-configuration, which they did in this release, then more people will join the mandrake club.
Also as a side note the Mandrake club is a great idea and i think if you download this and you like it you should join. Some people say that setting up a business on a subscription based model will scare off investors and you should buy the CD's instead. That is oh so very wrong. If MandrakeSoft can pull it's self out of debt and show everyone that their business model works i think we could potentially have many more sucessful open source companies make it.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
The famous sentence "La garde meurt mais ne se rend pas" (the guard dies but does not surrender) is attributed to general Cambronne, in Waterloo, as he was already wounded, and the English troops commanded him to surrender with the imperial guard, which he leaded. Hugo would write later that the real winner of Waterloo was Cambronne, for his heroic behaviour in front of adversity.
More accurate evidences seem to suggest that the sentence actually was from general Michel, who found death during this battle. Cambronne's answer was shorter, although no less heroic, in the form of the famous "word of Cambronne": Merde ! (Shit !).
Supposed dead during the battle, Cambronne was captured by the english military, then freed and sentenced to martial court by the new french monarchy for having served under Bonaparte, before being freed again to serve the Bourbons.
So perharps it makes the citation more appropriate for poor Mandrake, willing to fight until its last breath without admitting defeat, the way real stubborn french people do.
Reminds me of another famous citation, from Cyrano de Bergerac, a fictional character of Edmod Rostand:
Que dites-vous ? C'est inutile ? Je le sais, mais on se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès.
(Lame translation: What do you say ? it's useless ? I know that, but one does not fight hoping for success).
All generalizations are false, including this one...
While my experience is not perfect with it, Beta3 and RC1 recognized my Wacom Graphire2 tablet, including the wheel mouse component. The imperfection of it relates to the fact that positioning is treated as a combination of relative and absolute. As you place the pen or mouse on the tablet, it is positioned absolutely. Once you start moving it, it is relative, and apparently not mapped nicely to the movement of the mouse pointer on the screen.
The installer did recognize a usb mouse, including the wheel, but would not recognize a USB Keyboard, even though I did try teling the bios to tell whatever OS was running on top that the USB Keyboard was a PS2 keyboard. The Installer apparently recognized that it was not a PS2 (or older) keyboard, and didn't know what to do with it. After the install, the keyboard does work in the running OS. I can live with a PS2 keyboard during the install for now, but I would prefer that the USB keyboard work during the install.
Those are just my experiences. Others may be different.
-Rusty
You never know...
Paying for something you don't use is really not something I woudl ask you to do - even if it ends up feeding me. .-)
;-)
Not paying for something one does use (which is what many people do these days) is on the other hand a very stupid thing. One day you wake up, and the "free lunch" is gone...