Anticipatory Scheduler in Kernel 2.5+ Benchmarked

gmuslera points to this article at KernelTrap comparing available benchmarks for schedulers available for the 2.5 kernel, with the 2.4's scheduler as a reference poin. "In some cases, the new Anticipatory Scheduler performs several times better than the others, doing a task in a few seconds instead minutes like the others."

Comments

Anticipatory

[daeley]

Somehow, I just *knew* this was coming. ;)

Re:Anticipatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run on Lunix 8.0?

Re:Anticipatory

[nairnr]

Just like they couldn't anticipate the Slashdotting they were about to receive...

Re:Anticipatory

[mindriot]

Man, they should've just anticipated the coming Slashdotting and used it as a real-life benchmark for the scheduler...

Re:Anticipatory

[ottffssent]

> Mac OS X: because making Unix user-friendly is easier than debugging Windows.

Heh. More like "because making user-friendly Unix is easier than making unix-sturdy MacOS".

Re:Anticipatory

[bstadil]

Somehow, I just *knew* this was coming. ;)

Easy Bro, I just patched and recompiled my kernel in preparation for a recursive stunt using this technology.

2.6 will be released April 1, at 10.32 CST.

Re:Anticipatory

[gilgongo]

Hey way OT, but what the hell...

I totally agree, but do find it sad that Apple spent all the time and effort only to find that creating an OS was beyond them, so they chucked it all out and went for Unix. And Unix had been there for them all along.

Ah well, a good lesson learned. Now if only somebody could work out how to teach Microsoft a similar one...

Re:Anticipatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow, I just *knew* this was coming. ;)

Ah, grasshopper, but did you know it will be coming to Slashdot yet again in a day or so? Anyone can predict the future; it takes a sage to predict a Slashdot duplicate.

Re:Anticipatory

[bill_mcgonigle]

I totally agree, but do find it sad that Apple spent all the time and effort only to find that creating an OS was beyond them, so they chucked it all out and went for Unix. And Unix had been there for them all along.

C'mon, try grounding your trolling in reality next time. Scheduling on OSX is handled by Mach, which was developed at CMU by Avi Tevanian, developed at NeXT and brought up to 3.0 at Apple.

Apple uses BSD for its UNIX compatibilty layer, but that doesn't handle scheduling, which is what this article is about.

Now, if you want to say Apple was dumb for chucking A/UX in the early nineties, then that'd make a much better troll.

Re:Anticipatory

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone can predict the future; it takes a sage to predict a Slashdot duplicate.

Naw, just say every article is going to be duped in the future, and you are only wrong 75% of the time :) 1/4 right is still better than astrology.

no

[Anonymous Coward]

first post?

fp

[Anonymous Coward]

fp

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[Anonymous Coward]

fp

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fail it negroid

Re:FP OR FaIL IT NEEGaH

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have put some hidden message halfway through all that shit.

Re:FP OR FaIL IT NEEGaH

[Jesus, Son Of God]

Yeah, like my dad did. People still can't figure out what he like did in this book he wrote.

I used to know this leader of a suicide cult who got really close, but then his `treatment' started.

Re:FP OR FaIL IT NEEGaH

[Anonymous Coward]

Now fuck off before I shove my gigantic throbing man-rod into your quivering, unlubricated beef-curtains.

Re:FP OR FaIL IT NEEGaH

[Jesus, Son Of God]

Gosh. Youbettacha! I wouldn't want that to happen, now would I?

NOW WOULD I?!?!?!?!

Great!

[kpansky]

Now if only I could get 2.5 series to not b0rk when booting off my CMD649 ide controller...

Re:Great!

[tshak]

Hey, it's open source - fix the bug yourself!

Re:Great!

[MBCook]

Do the kernel developers know about this? This is exactly the kind of bug that they always want to get rid of.

On a side note I've been running 2.5s for about 3 months now and I've definatly noticed improvements in response time and such. It's a great kernel.

Re:Great!

[Xunker]

Quoeth the driver:

* These chips are basically fucked by design, and getting this driver
* to work on every motherboard design that uses this screwed chip seems
* bloody well impossible. However, we're still trying.

Re:Great!

[Paslophunk]

I second that (albeit only 2 months). I used to have many problems compiling 2.5, but the newer releases are truly wonderful, also the new module system kick ass, esp. now when I can compile ALSA in and not worry about a thing. 2.5 is WAY easier to get up and running than 2.4, I really recommend trying it out, but be sure to read Documentation/Changes ! (although I run Debian/Woody and didn't bother to upgrade anything except module-init-tools, works for me ;)

Oh, and while ur at it u might want to take a look at devfs too (I run it without devfsd and I didn't have any problems, u just need to change inittab from ttyX to vc/X, fstab and lilo/grub).

The only kinks I had was with xine which doesn't like v4l, but mplayer works fine... Hmm, oh and same FPS for Q3, I doubt that any of u will feel much difference anywhere (unless u didn't use the preempt patch for 2.4). But I haven't played with NPTL yet, does anybody have any experience with that?

Re:Great!

[DeeKayWon]

The snippet you quote is from the cmd640 driver, which covers only the chipset by the same name. Subsequent CMD chips, including the 649, use the cmd64x driver and are not fucked.

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

They are fucked. What part of "fuck" don't you understand?

Re:Great!

[CoolVibe]

I'd love to try 2.5, but the closed nvidia drivers is the only thing that's keeping me grounded to 2.4.

Although I _suspect_ they will run fine on 2.5, I don't want to risk it. It's still a little too bleeding edge for me. They call it bleeding edge for a reason, because you _will_ bleed and get hurt from time to time.

I guess I am a big fat ninny when it comes to bleeding edge stuff (although I do lust for all the new toys, the waiting just increases my contentness when such cool stuff gets part of stable stuff) :-)

Speaking of avoiding the bleeding edge, it would be sooo cool if this IO scheduler was backported to 2.4.

Re:Great!

[wasteve]

I found this site a little while ago. I don't run 2.5 myself but I have used the patch that fixes the OOPS from version 3123 of the NVIDIA drivers.

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the vowel seems a little shaky, as if decapitated. Then there is the 'ck' sequence. Is that redundant? Couldn't we just go with 'fuq', 'fuc', or 'fuk'?
Truly, this is the most entertaining /. thread I've seen in a while.
Alas, duplication does not improve these threads...

Re:Great!

[pjrc]

It's also worth noting that the cmd640 chipset was used on late 486 and early pentium motherboards. Few, if any, new computers have used this buggy chip since the mid 90's.

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you know it's possible to setup your system 2 boot 2 different kernels?

Re:Great!

[The J Kid]

You are in Luck !

Clicketh for the NVidia drivers for Linux 2.5

Re:Great!

[CoolVibe]

Both posters that came with the minion.de link: Thanks! It's bookmarked.

Heck, I might give 2.5 a shot this week. Woohoo.

Re:Great!

[CoolVibe]

That's not really the issue, since the IDE subsystem is still a bit wonky (why else did they port the 2.4 IDE system to 2.5?), and well, there _was_ the nvidia driver issue.

Bleeding edge usually means you bleed from time to time. I don't like bleeding. I bled when I did follow FreeBSD 5, when they put in KSE, and I bled when they took out perl all of a sudden (not that I disagree with that move, it did force me to reinstall all my perl modules, so I bled.. again), and when they moved to gcc 3 (lots of stuff broke, mainly ports).

Sure I can run multiple (devel) kernels on a box, but I want to be able to work too, and not bleed :)

Re:Great!

[Xunker]

Ack! Ack! Ack! The Extended IDE controller I use in this very machine is based on that very chip! "CompUSA Brand" indeed!

quick, delete this post!

[Anonymous Coward]

it's a secret message to OSAMA!

Ohh the agony...

[Sayten241]

The anticipation is killing me .

Obvious joke...

[ChangeOnInstall]

If only kerneltrap.org were running the new schedu... oh, never mind.

Three comments and slashdotted already...

[bteeter]

Anybody got a mirror??

Thanks - Brian
--
Linux Web Hosting/Dedicated Servers

Re:Three comments and slashdotted already...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey dickwad use a sig for that crap after your name. That way, others can filter your bullshit.

Re:Three comments and slashdotted already...

[Anonymous Coward]

dumbass...that is his sig

Re:Three comments and slashdotted already...

[Anonymous Coward]

damnit man, i told you to lay off the coke.

Re:Three comments and slashdotted already...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehehehehe... your email address is funny:

brian_teeter@ass...com

Teeter....

Ass.... huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh

Teeter and ass!

Re:Three comments and slashdotted already...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, .sigs don't show up for ACs.

More high quality editing

[Anonymous Coward]

...instead OF minutes like the others, surely?

Best web site in the universe

[Anonymous Coward]

http://maddox.xmission.com/

ou are not logged in. You can log in now using the convenient form below, or Create an Account. Posts without proper registration are posted as Anonymous Coward
http://maddox.xmission.com/

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Oops

[AnotherShep]

Seems to be slashdotted already... Wonder if it saw that coming.

unfotunately

[DonkeyJimmy]

In some cases, the new Anticipatory Scheduler performs several times better than the others, doing a task in a few seconds instead minutes like the others.

The task in question was anticipating things, so the test might not be all that fair.

Re:unfotunately

[Caoch93]

The task in question was anticipating things, so the test might not be all that fair.

While I have seen some voices of dissent that the test isn't fair, I'm afriad I don't understand what you mean here. Could you please explain further?

Re:unfotunately

[DonkeyJimmy]

While I have seen some voices of dissent that the test isn't fair, I'm afriad I don't understand what you mean here. Could you please explain further?

Actually I was making a joke (that the benchmarking task itself was what the act of anticipating things, which this tool would obviously have a one up on... ). But someone modded me up insightful, so maybe I'm on to something.

It'd be like testing rice painted white in a glass of milk during a snowstorm in a whiteness contest.

Re:unfotunately

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I run Linux. Projects like the Anticipatory Scheduler demonstrate time and time again that Linux is the best, bar none. Furthermore, this technology is available today; it is not some varporware promise.

Re:unfotunately

[Caoch93]

Actually I was making a joke (that the benchmarking task itself was what the act of anticipating things, which this tool would obviously have a one up on... ). But someone modded me up insightful, so maybe I'm on to something.

Believe it or not, you are sorta on to things. One of the "competitor" scheduler implementations to the anticipatory scheduler is the CFQ scheduler, which is written with very different intents as far as latency and bandwidth of service go. The CFQ implementor has protested that the benchmarks cast a poor light on the CFQ scheduler because they focus on tasks it isn't designed to optimize for and that the CFQ scheduler is preferable for normal desktop use (whereas the anticipatory scheduler is preferable for server use).

So, like with most humor, there was a kernel (no pun intended) of truth in there. ;)

I've tried it and it rocks

[huhmz]

I have a multithreaded perl app (yes perl has descent thread support in 5.6 and later) which does a lot of mixed write/read I/O to and from a database. With 2.4 and 40 threads I can hardly use the system (of course I dont have to abuse my computer with 80 threads but Im trying to prove a point here).
Switching to a new tabbed terminal in fluxbox it takes ages to redraw and switching between virtual desktops is an act of futility.
With 2.5 It get good interactive performance and don't see this effect much at all. For sure this is also a bit due to the new VM code.
Of course I would probably get the best interactivity with the SFQ scheduler but thats secondary in this case. At least xmms doesn't skip with this during very heavy I/O. I do not use the new NPTL code which would help further I suppose.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[huhmz]

Dammit it's supposed to say 80 threads in both cases and yes I did preview but I've been awake for too long. Sorry

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[brer_rabbit]

For sure this is also a bit due to the new VM code.

Fer sure.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry to sound like an Trolling AC, but I can't imagine why you would need 80 threads. Unless you using threads instead of a queue. I love threads, but they are and over used and hard to control and debug. The most complex thread system I've needed had ~25 threads running on 5 computers.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[bill_mcgonigle]

I'm sorry to sound like an Trolling AC, but I can't imagine why you would need 80 threads. Unless you using threads instead of a queue. I love threads, but they are and over used and hard to control and debug. The most complex thread system I've needed had ~25 threads running on 5 computers.

It's far easier to maintain any multiplicity of state machines using threads rather than queues. Think of multi-user servers using stateful protocols. You might have hundreds or thousands of threads.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[PD]

How about a game where each little unit runs its own thread? 400 tanks crawling all over the battlefield would be 400 threads.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Only one problem - it'd run like a FUCKING DOG.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

why the hell is that funny?

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[afidel]

How about an application that wishes to scale arbitrarily with the processor resources available (say from a blade server to an IBM Z series machine). With a run time option to limit the number of threads performance testing could be done to find the best number of threads for the workload expected and the hardware available.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[brer_rabbit]

why the hell is that funny?

Honestly, I don't know. It just is.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[jpmorgan]

Wow, 80 threads to build a state machine? What a nasty solution.

You should chuck whatever language you're working in and replace it with one that supports full co-routines.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Doug Neal]

I have noticed that there is a huge latency involved when creating threads in Perl 5.8 - in fact I benchmarked it and it was about 20 times slower than a fork! I think this has something to do with Perl making duplicates of all the variables for each new thread (they aren't shared by default) and possibly not using a copy-on-write algorithm to do so. I don't know. But while the performance of the threads was decent once they got going, the latency to spawn them was really crippling, and I went back to using forks... I wonder if this new scheduler will have any impact on Perl thread performance?

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Tony-A]

replace it with one that supports full co-routines. [emphasis added]
Ok, you got my attention. I've done co-routines in Basic Assembly and seem to recall some in PL/I (Pl/I-F with the PL/I runtime "owned" by some BAL code). Seems like most "modern" languages have zilch support (except for local static variables). Oh can they simplify some very messy logical abilities.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[greenrd]

You should chuck whatever language you're working in and replace it with one that supports full co-routines.

Threads, coroutines - what's the difference?

Now before you bite my head off, I know they are different. But both require individual stacks, coroutines can be emulated with threads - and threads support higher throughput (one thread can do compute while another is blocking on I/O) than single-threaded coroutine implementations.

Re:I've tried it and it rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how about a game where the threads in the soldiers' clothes are all represented by separate thr... Blah, never mind.

Also "poin" instead of "point" -- COME ON SLASHDOT

[nate.sammons]

You guys could at least READ the text before posting it... come on!

-nate

Ketchup scheduler?

[Penguin2]

It reminds of the old song and Heinz Ketchup commercial:
"Anticipation is making me wait"...

Re:Ketchup scheduler?

[drfuchs]

You kids! The song, "Anticipation" was a huge hit by Carly Simon back in 1971 (she won the "Best New Artist" Grammy for the album). Her version showed up in a Heinz commercial years later; a newer recording by her kids(!) was used in a 2002 Heinz commercial. On the other hand, I grew up thinking that the "Lemon Pledge, Very Pretty" song came from the TV commercial, but it's really "Lemon Tree, Very Pretty", a hit for Peter, Paul and Mary in 1962.

Re:Also "poin" instead of "point" -- COME ON SLASH

[Anonymous Coward]

crazy how my brain just filled in the missing letter.

scary.

glad you pointed it out...i need to read more carefully.

Is this the most useless thread on slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

I could post something about my bellybutton lint that would be more interesting. But of course, my bellybutton is a dimensional portal to another galaxy populated by hot Latina Lesbians, so I guess that's not a surprise.

Poin.....

[akiy]

"with the 2.4's scheduler as a reference poin."

I'm still anticipating the "t" in "point" myself...

Re:Poin.....

[Anonymous Coward]

poin was actually in the topic, moderator

Re:Poin.....

[Anonymous Coward]

yea no shit.

that's definitely +5 MOC

(moderator on crack)

Re:Poin.....

[Mark (ph'x)]

Funny though... on my screen the first thing my brain interpreted that to: 'reference porn'

I think i need help...

Re:Poin.....

[Mathness]

No no, this was a clever reference to poin.
So any true fan af this game would have caught the pun.

Article text in case of /. effect:

[Mr. Sketch]

Too many connections

In case of slashdotting

[Anonymous Coward]

(Headquarters: Kyoto; CEO: Yoshio Tateisi) has announced the development of "flat light source" technology aimed to become a new form of LED illumination.

Employment of LED's in such applications as train car brake lights, signals, and displays began in recent years from the viewpoint of energy consumption and in the not-too-distant future they are expected to displace current lighting sources in the average household. The challenges of this kind of LED illumination are considered to be further improving LED brightness and realizing performance comparable with the price.

Incorporating characteristics of low-profile/large surface area/uniformity not found in lighting sources up until now (light bulbs, fluorescent lamps, present LED's), Omron has developed "flat light source" technology. Taking full advantage of its small size/long service life, features inherent to the LED, the "flat light source" will be positioned to realize future unrestricted illumination such as "wall-mounted light" and "portable light."

Using light wave control technology of the currently marketed DR-LED as a base, a precise optics design was implemented for optical beam dispersement to compartmentalize more space, and by doing so increasing the amount of surface area. The light emitting surface area is 30mm x 30mm with a thickness of 6mm, giving it about 50 times more illumination surface area than a typical bullet-type LED of the same thickness. If a bullet-type LED were to be created to match the same amount of illumination surface area, the thickness would have to be between 1/10th and 1/5th greater. Moreover, this technology mixes three colors (blue, green, red) into a single "flat light source," thus making any color possible, something that has proven to be very difficult for light bulbs and fluorescent light.

The scope of applications for the "flat light source" include those which the LED has already advanced into such as train car brake lights, signals and displays. Combining several "flat light source" units together creates enough illumination for wall-mounted light or portable light and its compact size makes it ideal for narrow locations like walls and columns. Plus, color can be freely adjusted making it a truly full color lighting source.

Hereafter, Omron will accelerate the move toward illumination by the low energy consumption contributing LED, and with this newly developed technology as a base, strive to bring the "flat light source" to commercialization.

doing one task?

[stew77]

doing a task in a few seconds instead minutes like the others

A task? I thought schedulers were for multitasking...

/.ed

[tarquin_fim_bim]

They're not using an IIS server are they? Naughty, naughty.

Re:/.ed

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Red Hat 7.x if I remember correctly.

Anti-slashdotting?

[Dark Lord Seth]

Too many connections

You know, you can ALMOST feel an admin over there just itching to type in "Fuck you Taco! And your site!" instead of the connection stuff...

Re:Anti-slashdotting?

[Eccles]

Perhaps Apache should be set up so that sites refuse referrals from slashdot.org by default...

Re:Anti-slashdotting?

[Jahf]

Mozilla's Bugzilla does this now.

Perhaps one better ... redirect all /. requests to a Google-cache of your webpage (assuming you're lucky enough to have the page cached before someone notices).

Re:Anti-slashdotting?

[Anonymous Coward]

The standard procedure this day is to monitor load and incoming connections/maxconnections, and if either get too high, redirect every n'th person to some unrealted site (goatse.cx is my personal favorite).

Re:Anti-slashdotting?

[Anonymous Coward]

why don't ya just redirect slashdot referrals back to slashdot :-)

Re:Anti-slashdotting?

[Anonymous Coward]

why don't ya just redirect slashdot referrals back to slashdot :-)

And when Slashdot does a story on Slashdot, how come Slashdot doesn't get slashdotted? hmmmm?

Too late.

[Osama bin Ladin]

Asshole.

Microsoft version:

[DonkeyJimmy]

Me: Computer, I would like to open Netscape
Computer: I have anticipated you would like to open IE and have already opened it for you.
Me: Ok, then I would like to go to the game review site to see what I want to buy.
Computer: I have already begun the download of the new Age of Empires game, your account has been charged.
Me: Can I at least go to the bathroom?
Computer: No.

Re:Microsoft version:

[Anonymous Coward]

Me: I would like to upda...
Computer: I have already run auto update. all your warez are belong to us.

Re:Microsoft version:

[Anonymous Coward]

ok ok...i knew that was not funny...*shit* why did i hit the enter key ....*quick think of something*

ok ok...here it is:

ME: Computer, engage the forward nacells at warp 9.4
Computer: In Soveit Russia...

FUCK...
ok, that was it...last post. no more. i'm done.

Re:Microsoft version:

[MyHair]

Is this a new virus or clever marketing scheme?

Either way... (loading double-barreled shotgun)

(credit to Dilbert/Scott Adams)

Re:Microsoft version:

[smittyoneeach]

But wait!
ME: Computer, generate random video of a love godess across a lot of CPUs, for a high-performance performance.
Computer: Starting imaging, on a beowulf cluster, of those Natalie Portman photos of her being herself...

Help me, please!

Re:Microsoft version:

[jojor]

Me:" Open the door, Computer"
Computer:" I'm afraid I cant let you do that Dave...:"

Re:Microsoft version:

[Anonymous Coward]

Me: Can I at least go to the bathroom? Computer: No.

Damn, I was expecting something along the lines
Me: Can I at least go to the bathroom?
Computer: It's already too late.

Re:Microsoft version:

[Tony-A]

Is this a new virus or clever marketing scheme?

Is there a difference?

Yeah, viruses are kinder.
(You're right about the double-barreled shotgun;)

Don't click that link

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a trap! We've got to give this website more time. Concentrate all firepower on the next article below!
/ackbar

Re:Don't click that link

[Trogre]

iptables: "Httpd, we've lost our port 80 packet deflectors"
httpd: "Intensify the firewall, I don't want anything to get through."
iptables: "Httpd, look!"
httpd: "INTENSIFY THE FIREWALL!"
iptables: "Too late!"

Re:Don't click that link

[Alsee]

Well duh!
Everyone knows it doesn't matter how much you intensify the firewall. You obviously should have remodulated it with a hyperspanner.

-

Re:Don't click that link

[Trogre]

No no no!

This one goes here, that one goes there!

It's about time...

[FyRE666]

... the Mozilla developers added a special "Slashdotted" plugin you know. So you could launch a special tab that would keep hammering away at a site in the background until it did bloodywell load ;-)

Re:It's about time...

[root 66]

which would fit into one two categories: 1. solution for already solved problem, 2. killer feature.

Re:It's about time...

[Mattsson]

Yeah! Come on everone! Lets hammer the slashdotted sites!
That'll fix the problem. Honestly. Promise! =)
*looks serious*

Re:It's about time...

[ottffssent]

I know that's Score:5 Funny but there's a serious note here.

If a site is down, Mozilla could pretty easily grab the google cache instead. Or, if there's no google cache or if the cache matches the current page, check archive.org. Mozilla could auto-generate a page offering the user some options. Think about it - it would be the end of 404 errors. Instead of

404 The requested page could not be found.

you could get

The site you requested is currently down. Would you like to use Google's cache instead? I also have a snapshot of the page you requested from August 12, 2002 but older ones are available here.

Re:It's about time...

[ergonal]

Wouldn't this be putting an unnecessary load on Google and the Wayback machine? Not saying they couldn't handle the strain, but maybe if it was an option not enabled by default perhaps.

Re:It's about time...

[Dr. Spork]

I like this idea very much. I hope some kind soul writes it up as a plugin.

Re:It's about time...

[da cog]

Don't you think mozilla is bloated enough already? If they added that, then they might as well just go ahead and include a kitchen si... wait... err... nevermind.

Re:It's about time...

[Gorphrim]

i wonder did anyone bother submitting this idea to the Mozilla people instead of to /. ?

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Then it doesn't have to search for the information right away. The page could simply have links saying "Search Google for a cached version of this page."

Re:It's about time...

[Pharmboy]

i wonder did anyone bother submitting this idea to the Mozilla people instead of to /. ?


I wonder if anyone bothered to ask GOOGLE if it was ok. They did just threaten to sue some guy for using the term GOOGLE as a verb on his website. Had an article on it here just 2 days ago.

I'm too lazy to look up the original link from 2 days ago. Just wait a day or two and read it then, I'm sure it will get duped ;)

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

They did just threaten to sue some guy for using the term GOOGLE as a verb on his website.
No, they didn't. And it wasn't a cease-and-desist letter. All they said was, "Hi, I'm a google lawyer (TM). We like our trademark, which for obvious reasons you'll understand. Could you please indicate that google is a trademark in your definition, or, if it's easier, just remove it? Thanks.".

Unlike you, I'm not too lazy to type "google" into the Slashdot search box you probably see at the top-right of this page, click search, and click through to the article and from there the (NON-cease-and-desist) letter.
It reads, in full:

Dear Mr. McFedries:

I am trademark counsel for Google. I have recently become aware of a
definition of "google" on your website, www.wordspy.com. This definition
implies that "google" is a verb synonymous with "search." Please note that
Google is a trademark of Google Technology Inc. Our brand is very
important to us, and as I'm sure you'll understand, we want to make sure
that when people use "Google," they are referring to the services our
company provides and not to Internet searching in general. I attach a copy
of a short, informative piece regarding the proper use of "Google" for your
reference.

We ask that you help us to protect our brand by deleting the definition of
"google" found at wordspy.com or revising it to take into account the
trademark status of Google. [basically saying: Note: Google (TM) is a registered trademark of Google Technologies].

Now quit spreading FUD. I love Google.

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cause everyone knows that when a lawyer writes you a letter asking you to stop doing something, they will just say "ok" if you say no.

dumbass.

Re:It's about time...

[Omnifarious]

Why not instead use Gnutella or one of the lovely peer to peer swarming protocols to download it instead? That's what they're for. I don't understand why Mozilla doesn't already do this when several of these protocols already work explicitly on URLs.

Re:It's about time...

[Anonymous Coward]

If they added that, then they might as well just go ahead and include a kitchen si... wait... err... nevermind.

Hey moderators. Over here.

* AC whistles

Can we get some service? Need some +n Funny for the parent here, if you will. Thanks.

Re:It's about time...

[sjames]

The letter was polite and reasonable. I suppose you'd prefer the usual, I am a lawyer god, you are unworthy of even licking the dirt from my boots, obey me or else letters?

They didn't even ask that he remove the definition, just to note that it is TM. If only other lawyers would read that and learn!

Re:It's about time...

[Chris Canfield]

Opera. Right-click. Reload every 30 seconds. Done.

Re:It's about time...

[blibbleblobble]

"i wonder did anyone bother submitting this idea to the Mozilla people instead of to slashdot ?"

Where do you think the mozilla hackers live?

It would be neat...

[oqti]

If some new scheduler would use fancy statistical methods to learn about your machine's usage patterns, and adapt its predictions to it.

Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass.

Re:It would be neat...

[DonGar]

At a somewhat higher level, I've always wanted a compiler that goes back and reoptimizes the executables on my machine based on usage patterns. At the very least, it sounds like a good idea.

Re:It would be neat...

[norton_I]

GCC (and I assume others) can do this. Basically, you compile with -fprofile-arcs, run the executable enough to generate sufficient data, then compile with -fbranch-probabilities. This will try to order basic blocks so that the CPU predicts branches correctly most often.

I have never done it, but it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, it is pretty much limited to static analysis -- it doesn't allow for programs whose usage patterns change with time. For that you need some kind of dynamic recompilation, such as provided by HP's Dynamo, Transmeta's code morphing, or perhaps some Java JITs (I don't know if any of them implement this).

Personally, I think profile directed optimization done by a static compiler is a waste of time. All optimizations should be done at the best place, and for many optimizations, that is the static compiler, but many others can be better done by run time optimizers, or the CPU, and this is one of them.

Re:It would be neat...

[AstroJetson]

I vaguely remember some time ago reading about a modification to the shell that would do this...or something similar. For example if you're a programmer you might spend most of your time doing this:
$ vi foo.c
$ make
$ gdb foo
$ vi foo.c
$ make
$ gdb foo
etc.

This shell could pick up on the pattern and anticipate what you were about to do.

Re:It would be neat...

[harvardian]

Schedulers are run every time you switch processes, which happens quite a few times a second (every time you move the mouse the window manager needs to update the mouse position, if that helps you understand how frequently this happens). As a result, a scheduler that takes, let's say, a tenth of a second to compute the next process it wants to run will lag .1 seconds every time you move your mouse. This is beyond unacceptable for even a casual workstation.

So, basically, if you could find a way to use fancy statistical methods in a couple of lines of code, you'll be a very famous man. The amount of simplicity many systems use is something like this:

1. Did the current process use its entire time slice? If yes, lower priority; if no, raise it.
2. Loop through the priority queues and pull out the first proc we see, return it
3. Done

(of course, this is only one popular algorithm, but it doesn't get much more complicated than that AFAIK)

Re:It would be neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

The "loop through" part is not a good idea.

That the O(n) scheduler in Linux wasn't among the first things scrapped from the 0.x-versions is unbelievable.

Re:It would be neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dynamic branch prediction usually requires dedicated hardware, and a cache of places where conditional branches have been taken recently. These predictors can then be used for speculative filling of the pipeline. For more details see the famous Hennessy and Patterson book (the Quantitative Approach).

Re:It would be neat...

[smittyoneeach]

Except when you want to do something slightly different.
What about scripting?
The cynic in me figures that most of these chrome-and-tailfin features are about driving you to buy more hardware as much as they are about improving the computing experience.

Re:It would be neat...

[AstroJetson]

It's been a while so I really don't remember the details. The shell didn't just automatically run the next command it thought you wanted to run. You had to hit TAB or something, sorta like filename completion. So scripting wasn't affected.

Re:It would be neat...

[TheRaven64]

I'm not sure if it's made it into version 1.1, but this kind of runtime profiling is a planned feature for the .NET framework.

On a related note, I've given up trying to install the copy of Visual Studio .NET MS gave me, after the installation crashed for the 5th time. Out of patience error.

Re:Article text in case of /. effect: (updated)

[Mr. Sketch]

Now it just seems to be:

<html><body></body></html>

google cache :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Couldn't find a google cache...poor kerneltrap. Thei Antispamist There 4 I am

sage?

[Anonymous Coward]

not really...dups are pretty frequent...if there is less than two a day i feel violated.

it does take a sage to predict if it will be a same day dup...now thats talent

anyone wanna wager?

Microsoft doesn't need UNIX

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact Linus stole the kernel scheduling out of XP and stuffed it in Linux. Now Linux 2.5 almost schedules as well as XP.

Re:Microsoft doesn't need UNIX

[Anonymous Coward]

Don'y you have any respect for trolling? That was pathetic! Do better next time.

[OT] Re:It would be neat...

[espresso_now]

Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass.

Would you mind if I used this in my sig?

Re:[OT] Re:It would be neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

looks like you already did ;oP

Re:[OT] Re:It would be neat...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, when I posted the comment my sig was the old one, and then I assumed you wouldn't my and to get an idea of what it would look like it set my sig to it, i didn't realize that sigs in slashdot are dynamic apparently and if you change it, it changes all your previously made comments too.

So, do you mind if I use it?

Oh, come on now...

[evanbd]

You know it's already been done. But if *you* had a plugin that meant you could load slashdotted pages when no one else could easily, and you knew it would only work as long as you didn't give it to other people, would you *really* give to everyone? Then no one would benefit, and the servers would stay hosed even longer...

how it works

[diegocgteleline.es]

Given that kerneltrap has "Too many connections", i don't know if they have this link: http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/r/antsched

where it explains what anticipatory scheduling does.


(btw, it seems that freebsd had it for ages)

Re:how it works

[Anonymous Coward]

damn...fresh outta mod points.

Re:how it works

[Anonymous Coward]

No FreeBSD does not have it. The researcher did his proof of concept code on FreeBSD.

Re:how it works

[HeelToe]

• (btw, it seems that freebsd had it for ages)

Which is why to this day I can't stand to use Linux as a desktop. Once I start a compile, I might as well give up use of the machine for any windowing system tasks. Not the case with FreeBSD (haven't tried others). I've been itchy for Linux to get better VM and scheduler for a long time.

Re:how it works

[Anonymous Coward]

anticipatory doesn't give you latency. It gives you throughput. Good for servers, bad for desktop

Rocky Horror Linux Show

[fr2asbury]

I see you shiver with antici - - - - (Say it!) - - - (Consti!) - - - pation!

;-)

Re:Rocky Horror Linux Show

[Anonymous Coward]

Consti...

well, this guy certainly doesn't!

...pation!

Re:Rocky Horror Linux Show

[Anonymous Coward]

This show would suck without audience partici!

Re:Rocky Horror Linux Show

[Anonymous Coward]

...pation?

Re:Rocky Horror Linux Show

[Anonymous Coward]

And then there's this chick.

Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[!Xabbu]

What does it do for kernel performance? Or does it do anything for performance? ...I haven't run Linux on a desktop for almost a year. It hurts mommy.. please make the bad man go away!

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[Caoch93]

In this case, they're talking about an I/O Scheduler, which is in charge of planning I/O through some resource so that activities on that resource correctly complete as quickly as possible. To be specific, this scheduler is for the hard disk I/O Scheduler, which plans reads and writes from/to your hard disks.

The Anticipatory Scheduler is designed to optimize your disk I/O based on the assumption that reads of related material tend to happen in short succession, while writes tend to be singular and larger. As a result, when the scheduler encounters a read, it anticipates that there will be other reads in short succession, so it waits and then checks for them and, if they're there, they move to the front of the line. The name comes from the tiny waiting period when it anticipates future reads.

This is, of course, a condensed version of what I think I've learned from reading KernelTrap for the last few months. Someone's bound to tell you I'm talking arse.

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[Anonymous Coward]

Us Windows users get our own version of your fancy shmancy schedulers, except MS gives it the fitting name Outlook (better than anticipate).

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[RainbowSix]

Other forms of disk scheduling are a little more simple. Assume that the disk is really slow, and lots of requests are coming in that are buffered somewhere. Obviously you want to handle requests that are close to where the disk head currently is since it is faster and you won't have your head going all over the place.

FCFS (first come first serve) - easy stupid way. Take requests as they come. If you need front end front end, performance suffers because obviously you want to do front front end end.

SSTF (shortest seek time first) - do the request that is shortest to the head first. The problem with this is if you keep asking for stuff at the front of the disk and have a lone request for the end of the disk, the lone request could get ignored for a long time (starved) since the scheduler does the stuff at the front since seek times are much lower.

SCAN - the head starts at one end of the disk and goes to the end, servicing requests along the way, but never going back so that that lone request from the previous method does get serviced. When it gets to the end the head moves back toward the front, servicing requests along the way. It keeps going back and forth.

C-SCAN -Variant of SCAN where it doesn't go back and forth. It goes from front to back servicing requests then goes all the way back to the front before it starts servicing again. It gives more uniform times because if you're using SCAN and your request at the beginning is just missed by the head, you have to wait until it goes all the way to the other end and comes all the way back. In this method it goes to the end and then you're the next request to be serviced if you are at the beginning.

LOOK - The same as CSCAN and SCAN except it doesn't blindly go to the end of the disk; it stops and turns around when there aren't any more requests in the direction. Of course, if you show up right after the head changes direction, sucks to be you :)

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[mgrant]

Hmm... I noticed that people usually talk about disk IO when discussing IO scheduling, but there are several other kinds of IO. How is the kernel set up? Is there a different IO scheduler for every different type of IO device (network, disk, etc)?

What about something like USB where you have no idea what kind of device is at the other end?

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[psamuels]

How is the kernel set up? Is there a different IO scheduler for every different type of IO device (network, disk, etc)?

Dude, you don't even want to know how many ways you can schedule network packets in Linux. I mean, don't even go there. (:

(Yes, different I/O is scheduled in different ways.)

What about something like USB where you have no idea what kind of device is at the other end?

I don't know enough about USB to say, but certainly if you have a USB-based "storage class" device, such as a ZIP drive or keychain flash thingy, those requests will be subject to the scheduler in the story before they ever hit the USB bus. Likewise if you are using your network for, say, NFS traffic: reads and writes will go through the filesystem scheduler before they hit the network packet scheduler.

Re:Ok.. I'll bite... what's a Scheduler?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in school look was call Elevator seeking since it worked just like an elevator.

kernel 2.5

[germinatoras]

doing a task in a few seconds instead minutes like the others

Excellent point the article! I'm glad I saw this Slashdot first. I can't wait the new kernel to be released.

fucking interpreted dynamic webparsers

[Anonymous Coward]

jeez when the fuck will there be much more performing and stable dynamic webpage generators that this bullshit python, php and perl (PPP) crap out there

there are sites that create a page once dynamically and then put it into their repository and make it statically linked to the rest of the site

shtml and all that other fucked up stuff.

jeez these poor 16MHz 386 boxens running overkill gfx loaded linsux and moronish php on them just sux bigtime and ran on some 14,4 modem connection.

hmmmm ... ??

[dk.r*nger]

the new Anticipatory Scheduler performs several times better than the other

Cool. Let's see a beowulf cluster of these in sovjet russia..

What the heck is a scheduler? What is it doing in a kernel, anyway?

Re:hmmmm ... ??

[Anonymous Coward]

>What the heck is a scheduler? What is it doing in a kernel, anyway?
Ask Microsoft. I think that's what Exchange is supposed to do.

Disk I/O, not CPU schedulers

[Wesley Felter]

The blurb didn't mention that the article is comparing disk schedulers, not CPU schedulers.

Re:Disk I/O, not CPU schedulers

[Sloppy]

Heh, an anticipatory CPU scheduler! "Yup, gcc wanted more time."

/.ed

[Anonymous Coward]

Too many connections

I'd read the thing but it's been /.ed

I can't wait until 2.6 comes out. It's going to be fscking awesome.

isn't this "news" quite old?

[misof]

I remember Ingo Molnar introducing this scheduler running in O(1) time months ago, sometimes late in 2002... AFAIK it is a part of the 2.5 kernel for quite a long time.. and at the time it was first tested there were some benchmarks.. I vaguely remember something about "we tried to launch several hundreds of processes, w.o. the scheduler: 15 minutes, w. the scheduler: 2 seconds." So what is so new about some benchmarks being available?

Or am I completely off-topic? ;)

Re:isn't this "news" quite old?

[Atzanteol]

Wrong scheduler. This is the I/O scheduler...

Re:isn't this "news" quite old?

[serps]

I was at linx.conf.au 2002, and Rusty Russell mentioned that test. However, his talk was about the CPU task scheduler, not the disk I/O scheduler which is apparently* being benchmarked in the article.

* "apparently", since I can't view the article.

Re:isn't this "news" quite old?

[Quixote]

I think Ingo'a was a CPU scheduler; this one's a disk (I/O) scheduler.

website is now OFFLINE completely

[Anonymous Coward]

the webserver is now OFFLINE completely. those poor swiss uunet foolz cant even take some decent slashdotting.

guess 's time to change the provider real soon now.

UUNET sure is bancrupt after this story i'd say.

I guess they didn't anticipate being slashdotted

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry. The title says it all.

Good stuff, but...

[Corbet]

...of course, LWN readers knew about the anticipatory scheduler back in January. We also looked at the SFQ and CFQ I/O schedulers two weeks ago.

Re:Good stuff, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you. You will be out of business soon and I will piss on your grave.

Re:Good stuff, but...

[10Ghz]

...of course, LWN readers knew about the anticipatory scheduler back in January

So did Kerneltrap-readers:

http://www.kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=574

Ouch! Touché!

Re:Good stuff, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

in soviet russia, graves piss on YOU

Re:Microsoft version:(allready done)

[Anonymous Coward]

>Me: Computer, I would like to open Netscape
>Computer: I have anticipated you would like to open IE and have already opened it for you.

Why do you think it takes so long to startup and login, but IE loads so fast.

some puerto rican guy

[Anonymous Coward]

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)__ () __|__(___>___/__\___s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

oj did it

[Anonymous Coward]

*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/______\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)__( )__|__(___>___/__\___s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\______/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_e_x_*_

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

OMG!

[Anonymous Coward]

It should anticipate the slashdot effect and teleport 3 new servers into the room, and mirror the website onto them and install a load balencer.

Or maybe it should just say "There have been 2000 slashdot whores here in the last 10 seconds, I anticipate your one too, so LEAVE NOW!"

Check the mailing list for more info

[Miles]

If you're really curious, you can check out the mailing list for more info. Try searching for "IO scheduler benchmarking" or "iosched". To save the mailing lists, here's a few interesting benchmarks:

Parallel streaming reads:
Here we see how well the scheduler can cope with multiple processes reading
multiple large files. We read ten well laid out 100 megabyte files in
parallel (ten readers):

for i in $(seq 0 9)
do
time cat 100-meg-file-$i > /dev/null &
done

2.4.21-pre4:

0.00s user 0.18s system 2% cpu 6.115 total
0.02s user 0.22s system 1% cpu 14.312 total ...(up to)
0.01s user 0.16s system 0% cpu 37.007 total

2.5.61+hacks:

0.01s user 0.16s system 0% cpu 2:12.00 total
0.01s user 0.15s system 0% cpu 2:12.12 total ...(up to)
0.01s user 0.19s system 0% cpu 2:13.51 total

2.5.61+CFQ:

0.01s user 0.16s system 0% cpu 50.778 total
0.01s user 0.16s system 0% cpu 51.067 total ...(up to)
0.01s user 0.18s system 0% cpu 1:32.34 total

2.5.61+AS

0.01s user 0.17s system 0% cpu 27.995 total
0.01s user 0.18s system 0% cpu 30.550 total ...(up to)
0.01s user 0.16s system 0% cpu 34.832 total

streaming write and interactivity:
It peeves me that if a machine is writing heavily, it takes *ages* to get a
login prompt.

Here we start a large streaming write, wait for that to reach steady state
and then see how long it takes to pop up an xterm from the machine under
test with

time ssh testbox xterm -e true

there is quite a lot of variability here.

2.4.21-4: 62 seconds
2.5.61+hacks: 14 seconds
2.5.61+CFQ: 11 seconds
2.5.61+AS: 12 seconds

Streaming reads and interactivity:
Similarly, start a large streaming read on the test box and see how long it
then takes to pop up an x client running on that box with

time ssh testbox xterm -e true

2.4.21-4: 45 seconds
2.5.61+hacks: 5 seconds
2.5.61+CFQ: 8 seconds
2.5.61+AS: 9 seconds

copy many small files:
This test is very approximately the "busy web server" workload. We set up a
number of processes each of which are reading many small files from different
parts of the disk.

Set up six separate copies of the 2.4.19 kernel tree, and then run, in
parallel, six processes which are reading them:

for i in 1 2 3 4 5 6
do
time (find kernel-tree-$i -type f | xargs cat > /dev/null ) &
done

With this test we have six read requests in the queue all the time. It's
what the anticipatory scheduler was designed for.

2.4.21-pre4:
6m57.537s ...(up to)
6m57.916s

2.5.61+hacks:
3m40.188s ...(up to)
3m56.791s

2.5.61+CFQ:
5m15.932s ...(others)
5m50.602s

2.5.61+AS:
0m44.573s ...(up to)
0m53.087s

This was a little unfair to 2.4 because three of the trees were laid out by
the pre-Orlov ext2. So I reran the test with 2.4.21-pre4 when all six trees
were laid out by 2.5's Orlov allocator:

6m12.767s ...(up to)
6m13.085s

Not much difference there, although Orlov is worth a 4x speedup in this test
when there is only a single reader (or multiple readers + anticipatory
scheduler)

Re:Check the mailing list for more info

[CoolVibe]

Hmm, what effect would the AS io scheduler have on compilation speeds? It's not like compiling code is an utterly random write and read operation.

Just wondering...

Re:Check the mailing list for more info

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice of you to credit the original poster of that - NOT!

(Can you say "KARMA WHORE!!!"? I knew you could!)

Re:Check the mailing list for more info

[Miles]

You're right--I should have mentioned that Andrew Morton was actually the one who did the benchmarks, and that there are more benchmarks on the list archives.

Re:Check the mailing list for more info

[ceeam]

Wow, doesn't look bad. Anyone care to test this new stuff against ReiserFS?

Re:Check the mailing list for more info

[psamuels]

Hmm, what effect would the AS io scheduler have on compilation speeds?

Well, in serious compiling, you're mostly CPU-bound, so the I/O scheduling shouldn't make much difference. Of course, if you have a large project and are using recursive Makefiles (which is of course Considered Harmful, but still widely used), the 'make' processes will be doing a lot of fork/exec-ing and a lot of disk reads. The disk reads should be improved, but who knows? Try it yourself.

cache / copy / mirror of page is here (mod up!)

[Anonymous Coward]

a valid copy and cache of the page is here to be found.

mod up:

http://www.stuwo.net/download/ktrap.html

Re:cache / copy / mirror of page is here (mod up!)

[Anonymous Coward]

here is the clickable link

mirror of story to be found here

http://www.stuwo.net/download/ktrap.html

Re:cache / copy / mirror of page is here (mod up!)

[42forty-two42]

Here's the canonical one: http://www.kerneltrap.org/node-592.html
It's exempted from the slashdotting message.

What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[ivoras]

Is there a comparison, on the same hardware, under same conditions, of the same benchmarks applied on other systems, such as FreeBSD (4-STABLE as well as 5-CURRENT, they are different in many ways) and Windows (both 2k and XP)?

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[hxnwix]

yeah get them at www.ext2_for_windows_xp.com

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[CoolVibe]

Well, the AS scheduler started life as a FreeBSD implementation (BSD dead? yeah right... whatever) but doing those benchmarks on other OSen on similar hardware is like comparing Apples and Oranges. Hardly worth it.

Also, I doubt that one could alter the I/O scheduler (let alone install an alternative) in the win* operating systems.

The AS I/O scheduler is very very interesting. I hope some kind soul would backport it to 2.4.

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[Anonymous Coward]

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[ivoras]

I didn't mean that the scheduler should be ported to other systems and then benchmarked, but to take whatever is already present in those system and stress it with the same benchmarks.

That WOULD be interesting, if only for the fun of it.

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah get them at www.ext2_for_windows_xp.com

You must mean AOL keyword ext2_for_windows_xp, since DNS doesn't allow underscores.

Re:What about other OSen? (*BSD, Windows)

[Anonymous Coward]

BSD is dead. Deal with it. Get over it. Move on.

apache + php bad combination.

[Anonymous Coward]

Use something else!

the apache + php combination can not handle many connections easily.

You can put a proxy cache in front, which is an easy way to help on some sites.

here is a working mirror. mod mirrors up at last !

[Anonymous Coward]

here is a working mirror

mirror of kerneltrap article here

http://www.stuwo.net/download/ktrap.html

Patent possibility?

[linuxguy]

I know the free software community hates software patents. But how do you fight bad software patents?
In the business world, companies fight other people's dumb patents with their own dumb patents.

Re:Patent possibility?

[privbit]

Just because Linux finally figured this out doesn't mean that it stumbled on anything patentable. In this particular case, Linux is one of the last to the party: you have at least Solaris, IRIX and Dynix as prior art, and presumably AIX, DG-UX, HP-UX, and Tru64 as well.

Actually they have

[Mastos]

sortof. You can download this plugin for Phoenix,
tabbed browsing extensions (and I'm there's probably one for mozilla too) that has an auto-reload feature. You can have phoenix reload a page every few seconds or minutes.

As a warning, I set it to reload slashdot every 60 seconds at work and left it on over the weekend only to come back to work banned :( Use sparingly...

Re:Actually they have

[BJH]

Same here, although I had it set to a more reasonable "reload every five minutes".

It bans by IP, so if you're reading from work it can be a bit problematic... they tell you to mail /. to get unbanned, but I have my doubts about their response time.

Sounds like overkill

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with simply reading ahead? The amount extra to read could be tweaked per thread based on previous behaviour, so that threads reading large files sequentially would quickly establish large readaheads, while threads making random access would establish low read aheads. And no need to sit around idly waiting for requests...

Being self righteous used to be cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

... but that was 15 minutes ago.

Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[KidSock]

After upgrading from RH 7.2 to RH 7.3 w/ 2.4.18 I noticed X hangs for literally several seconds (possibly 5 seconds) if anacron kicks off some significant disk activity like when updating the slocate database. Anyone know if this is a known problem?

Re:Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[AstroJetson]

I'm using an old Celeron 300 OC'd to 450 as my main Linux desktop at home - this is not a speed demon. I recently allowed Red Hat Update to 'upgrade' me to 2.4.18. I immediately noticed xmms skipping during times of heavy load. For example if I'm ripping a CD with grip while listening to xmms, it skips quite a bit. I'm thinking of going back to the previous version (.9?) so I'd say yes, .18 has issues in the VM and/or scheduler.

Re:Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[mrselfdestrukt]

No. I did not. 2.4.18 is old.
Well, according to my standards. And I allow my distro to be upgraded by me. Not the other way around.

Re:Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[Anonymous Coward]

And I allow my distro to be upgraded by me. Not the other way around.

Ah, you must live in SOVIET RUSSIA, then. In CORPORATE AMERICA, Red Hat upgrades you!

Re:Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

I never had problems w/ .18 but have you configured /etc/sysconfig/hardiskx(a,b, etc) with the appropriate lines for DMA and other parameters for disk performance. You can do it yourself by setting some hdparm parameters in /etc/rc.local ro use the method mentioned above. Redhat doesn't enable DMA by default.... Something like this in your /etc/sysconfig/harddiskhdx would help USE_DMA=1 MULTIPLE_IO=16 EIDE_32BIT=3

Re:Anyone notice 2.4.18 is sticky?

[AstroJetson]

I'll take a look. I did some hdparm optimization some time ago, but it may have gotten undone by upgrades and such since then.

Thanks for the tip!

OT: sigs

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigs are dynamic until the story is archived.

2.5 is the bomb so far, in so many ways..

[AxelTorvalds]

They should really call it 3.0...

When I first started hacking on Linux, I was working with a seasoned Linux kernel hacker who my company hired as a consultant. He helped us with some I/O issues and such, did some other tweaks and gave us a ton of inspiration to go get after it ourselves. (You be amazed at how many people are afraid to just start making changes to kernel code) He is a wickedly cool individual and as someone whose had a lot of schooling and experience it was one of the best learning experiences I can remember.

The first thing I started dorking with after that experience was the scheduler because I, like all other hakers, know how to schedule stuff. At the time, (early 2.x) the scheduler was also a fairly easy to digest piece of code that could have impacts on the system in great ways.

Well all my stuff got bit bucketed. I called up our consultant guy who my friend by now, "what's the deal? Linus doesn't like my stuff. How do you mail him stuff?" And his answer was that pretty much every body wants to tweak the scheduler, everybody sends stuff in. Linus is sage in his wisdom, schedulers are freaking hard because there is always a pedantic worst case that sucks and actually shows up in the real world. Linus has always done fairly simple things that aren't best but certainly aren't worst. So 2.0 had pretty straight round robin. 2.2 and 2.4 they started to add queuing schedulers with niceness. 2.5 we're going to get a pretty killer scheduler that has taken a ton of effort to tweak and there are still discussions to expose parameters to the user via /proc or something because you can find cases were it doesn't perform as well.

Now this IO scheduler is opening up a whole new can of worms, it's a new chunk of code called "scheduler" and all hackers know scheduling. In the past it has been fairly simple. It should be fun to watch and the kernel is going to kick mucho ass in the end. There will be a lot of talk and debate about this stuff. It's also distilled down to the trusted set that Linus will let play with things called "scheduler"

Re:2.5 is the bomb so far, in so many ways..

[psamuels]

Now this IO scheduler is opening up a whole new can of worms, it's a new chunk of code called "scheduler" and all hackers know scheduling. In the past it has been fairly simple.

Larry McVoy (who should need no introduction) once said: "Screwing around with the elevator is in general a waste of time, but it is a rite of passage for all I/O people." OK, OK, so the disk scheduler is a bit higher-level than the elevator, but I still think it's a cool quote.

WOW CS 162 Lecture

[vandel405]

I'm currently enrolled in cs 162 (OSs) at UC Berkeley, todays lecture was on different flavors of schedulers and this scheduler was mentioned breifly. For more theoretical info see http://webcast.berkeley.edu/courses/archive.html?p rog=116&group=52 for a webcast of the lecture or http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~cs162/Lectures/L11. pdf for a pdf of the lecutre notes.

File I/O primitives

[anonymous cupboard]

It seems that the main problem is that the file I/O primitives in Linux are a little too primitive. On some operating systems, there is another layer sitting between the file system and the user which provides record and block management. If I open a file for sequential read or write then the record/block manager knows that it could use read-ahead or write-behind.

The problem is that such I/O layers need to be implemented at least partially outside user-space in the case where the file is being simultaneously accessed to allow interprocess coordination. Also, to get best use, everything should use it.

Re:File I/O primitives

[Wesley Felter]

On Linux the kernel detects sequential I/O and does the readahead automatically. So it's not really clear what Linux is missing.

Re:File I/O primitives

[anonymous cupboard]

Yes, but it doesn't seem to be getting it right hence the problem requiring adaptive I/O scheduling. Certainly ext2 should automatically determine that, for example, our html web page read by Apache is sequential and the data should be read-ahead buffered. However, this doesn't seem to be helping.

At the same time I'm not quite sure where a solution like adaptive I/O scheduling would help on a real system because, in our example of an Apache server, whilst it is stalled writing a web page to you over TCP, it can be reading another page off disk for me. In a true server load, there is little think time because the next request comes in.

Re:File I/O primitives

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO the app shouldn't tell the system what it ahs to do. The system should decide what it needs. Everything else is just a hack.

Re:File I/O primitives

[psamuels]

On some operating systems, there is another layer sitting between the file system and the user which provides record and block management. If I open a file for sequential read or write then the record/block manager knows that it could use read-ahead or write-behind.

Record and block management? Oh, the horror!

Seriously, as of about a month ago, there is now an implementation of fadvise in the 2.5 kernel, which allows an application to provide "hints" to the disk scheduler such as you propose. For example, you can specify that a file descriptor is POSIX_FADV_RANDOM, meaning that you expect your access patterns to be random, and therefore read-ahead is not useful.

Alternatively, you can open a file with the O_DIRECT flag, which is another sort of hint that you want the OS to get in your way as little as possible. I believe in O_DIRECT mode you have to provide I/O in 512-byte chunks, but I'm not certain.

Re:File I/O primitives

[cthulhubob]

Yes, but it doesn't seem to be getting it right hence the problem requiring adaptive I/O scheduling. Certainly ext2 should automatically determine that, for example, our html web page read by Apache is sequential and the data should be read-ahead buffered. However, this doesn't seem to be helping.

You're misunderstanding the issue here. Linux does read-ahaead on long linear reads just fine. That's not the issue. The issue is primarily not a server issue, in fact. It's primarily a desktop/workstation issue.

There are often multiple processes on any machine wanting to do I/O simultaneously. Since the hard drive can only process one request at a time, the processes are competing for a limited resource (hard drive thoroughput). Thus, their access has to be scheduled properly to ensure the most efficient use of the hard drive.

The reason this is a big win is because of a system's apparent speed, or interactiveness. If you've ever been processing audio at a workstation and tried to open a calculator or an xterm or something like that while streaming media is being written to disk, you would know that it sometimes appears as if the computer has practically locked up, except for the sound of the hard drive. If reads can be pushed to the head of the queue, this helps immensely, for several reasons.

• Interactive processes are dependent on reads, not writes. If a video game or audio processing application or 3d modeling program or web server or almost anything else needs to read data from the disk, it is almost always the case that no more work will be done by that program until it has the data it is looking for. If the read is being blocked by a large sequential write, then it will appear as though the reading process has locked up until the write is done and the read can be serviced.
• Reads are often small and non-contiguous. In the case of a web server serving a page, it has to read the text of the page, then process additional requests for all of the graphic content included in the body of that page. If it's 2 am and your backup process is tarring up all the changed files in preparation to burning CDs or tape backup, you don't want the person viewing your site to have to wait an extraordinary amount of time for the backup to finish, do you?

There's a couple more examples I could give, but I'm sure you get the picture. This doesn't have anything to do with read-ahead. That works just fine :)

Re:File I/O primitives

[CarlDenny]

This isn't so much a solution for sequentila access as marginally conditional access.

If you're mucking around in a database, you probably need to walk a chain of record references, with record A containing a pointer to record B, containing a pointer to record C. These records can be offset enough from each other that caching doesn't do the job, or the code might not be optimized to use the cache, or it might need to be synced to disk regularly. But, being in the same file, the requests are still close enough on disk to still be accessed quickly. In these cases, you'll generate a series of requests like:

Read (Block 100)
Do calculations to find record A(100)->B(120)
Read (Block 120)
Do calculations to find record B(120)->C(150)
Read (Block 150)
Do calculations to find record C(150)->D(110)
Read (Block 110) ...

If another thread is doing reads and write at block 100000, this form of scheduling can save you a lot of time.

Re:File I/O primitives

[anonymous cupboard]

Thius sound like something that would be a great help. I follow kernel traffic but not in detail as I don't have spare capacity for a 2.5 series kernel at the moment.

I have used fadvise type calls before and they are very useful, but are best when they can be left in binary code with the kernel ignoring the call if it isn't supported.

Re:File I/O primitives

[anonymous cupboard]

The thing that I understand from this paper is that the system is assuming that a future read will be in the proximity of the previous read so stalling for a short time in case a subsequent read comes through in the vicinity.

The things is that since we got rid of DOS, a pc is now capable of multiprogramming. It is quite normal to run two or more activities, say listening to music and writing something in an IDE. The trouble is when I want to start something new.

Normally the disks are using an elevator scan which when the disks are well used, it works quite well at sharing the disk out. The problem is that the svan works between the lowest and highest cylinder numbers in any request during the current scan. So if I scan from Cyl 10 to Cyl 100, fine but the next request is for Cyl 11 so I change direction, but the immediately following request is for 101. Sorry, I'm already headed towards 11 so 101 must wait for my scan to complete and reverse direction.

My feeling is that it would be better to wait only at the end of a cylinder scan to check for new requests. Elevator seeking is good, but only if you are within the range of the current scan.

One of the issues we were talking about earlier was opening a calculator in the middle of a task, say Xcalc. I had the privilege in my younger days to see a toploader which took 60MB removable hard disk packs (not washing) that were about 70cm or more in diameter. The thing that always was a killer was linking a program image, moving the heads in a very visible but fairly random way.

With shareable libraries, we have delayed part of the linking until image activation. Even if the shareable library is already in memory, it still must be linked to the image before it can be started. With X11, there is a lot of stuff there and usually a burst of disk activity to bring it all in and to complete the linkage process, which is one reason why calc is always faster to start than Xcalc.

The long term solution when we have 64-bits of address space is to use based shareable libraries. This allows the image to be truely static-linked but to share code, which is a necessity for X.

I would end by saying that a large sequential read or write doesn't usualy cause scheduling problems. Especially with the higher speed disks, the main delays are cylinder to cylinder, settle time and to a lesser degree now, rotational latency. You can only read a track at a time in a cylinder, as the heads are preloaded, switching tracks within a cylinder is fast. If you hear your drive, you are usually just hearing the heads starting and stopping moving.

Your last point about backups is interesting. Some of the better backup programs will attempt to minimise head movement by sorting the data according to location. The disadvantage is that the volume shouldn't change during the backup.

Re:File I/O primitives

[anonymous cupboard]

Your idea is quite good for minimalistic databases like MySQL but not so good for the Oracles or whatever that do their own I/O management. They are aware of the diffeernce between tables and values and attempt to logical about the way that they manage them. Frequently they have their own LRU cache and read-ahead strategies independent of the underlying OS.

Finally

[esanbock]

Despite what you slashdot monkeys may think (half of you have probably never ran Linux), Linux is incredibly slow when compared to Windows. Windows simply handles multithreading better. Mozilla takes 2x as long to open in linux and if I try to open multiple apps at once, it takes minutes for any of them to come up. And you can tell the I/O is crap just by looking at KDE's performance when compared to Win2k. Windows just flies. Part of this of course is that my version of Linux (Debian) can be recompiled to run on many platforms and everyone can tell you that portability comes at the cost of platform-specific performance. But still the i/o and multithreading in linux sucks. But then again, I didn't pay for it.

Re:Finally

[jmt9581]

Luckily, there is a slashdot monkey here who actually does run Linux. :)

I don't know what kind of hardware you're running on, but on my P3/933mhz with 256mb of RAM, I've never waited longer than 9 seconds for a window to open, and even that was under a fairly heavy load. Even if Mozilla does take 2x as long to load, does that really prove that the multithreading under Linux sucks? Does Windows suck at handling concurrent connections just because PostgreSQL under Windows craps out after about 50 connections?

Also, I think that saying that the Linux I/O is based on comparison of Windows to KDE might be a little shortsighted, considering that Windows isn't weighed down by X11 and it's large feature set.

On a happier note, nice job with your version of Linux (Debian). I like it as well. :)

Re:Finally

[esanbock]

Hey after all the kernel reconfiguration and recompilation and code-tweaks, I really do feel like it's mine! My preciousssss...

BTW, I've got a dual P3 866 w/ 512 Mb. But good piont on the X11. I forget that there's an entire communication protocol between KDE and my video card. I think it's interesting to run a remote KDE session and all over X & TCP/IP, but this is one instance where a feature should be scrapped in favor of performance.

Re:Finally

[indefinite]

X11 tru, but not even what makes timing so different. it is windows taking care of its gui (or at least much of it) in process with the OS that really changes things. x11 has to go through system calls.

Re:Finally

[indefinite]

blah... read process as space. i meant system space. too many thoughts at the same time.

Re:Finally

[psamuels]

Windows simply handles multithreading better.

Nah, it handles certain start-up costs for complex applications better. This may or may not have anything to do with multithreading per se.

And you can tell the I/O is crap just by looking at KDE's performance when compared to Win2k. Windows just flies.

I don't run KDE, but I understand that it has had speed issues in the past because it uses a lot of interconnected C++ shared libraries, which really tax the dynamic loader. The Windows link scheme, by the way, is much more primitive (read: fast at runtime). Microsoft also uses a hack (disk layout profiling) to speed up load time further. (Not that "hack" is necessarily a bad thing - after all it does get the job done.)

A couple of years ago, Jakub Jelinek came up with a utility similar to IRIX Quickstart for ELF binaries / libraries, which does "prelinking" to dramatically reduce relocation overhead at runtime in the common cases (without sacrificing flexibility, for the uncommon cases). A side effect is reducing memory usage due to COW. I never heard what happened to that project - anyone know if it is considered production-quality yet, or if binutils / glibc will be shipping it any time soon? Apparently it helped KDE quite a bit.

Re:Finally

[Phosphan]

Prelinking is already there. Have a look at this page for an introduction (well, with some gentoo-specific stuff).

KDE has gained quite some speed with the last version changes. The gap is not as large as you remember.

Re:Finally

[psamuels]

Prelinking is already there. Have a look at this page for an introduction

Thanks, yes, that's the utility I was talking about. Apparently the necessary compiler / linker / loader support is now shipped with gcc 3.2, binutils 2.13.9x and glibc 2.3. Good to know - it's about time! The ELF binary format gave us enormous flexibility compared to older / simpler formats ... but the catch was the comparably enormous run-time linking cost. Prelinking eliminates most of the latter, so it's in general a really Good Thing.

No, different scheduler

[Kourino]

No, this is different. Ingo's O(1) scheduler is Linux's process scheduler, what determines when different processes get to use the CPU. The anticipatory scheduler is Nick Piggins' baby; it's an I/O scheduler, which decides when processes get to read to and write from devices.

Part of the idea is: prefer reads to writes, and assume that if you read once, more reads will follow (usually true), so wait for the next read(s) to come in and service them all at once; often, subsequent reads are to contiguous locations on disk, so if you just service them all at once you don't have to seek back if you service one, then go do something else, then get the next read.

oh goody -- now tackle the hard stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

We have something that any commercial OS had right from the get go. How exciting. Now how about fixing a little thing I like to call CaSe SEnSiTIvitY.

Full text of article

[Anonymous Coward]

This is where the full text of the aticle would be, as I finally was able to see it. But alas, Slashdot's stupid fucking lameness filter won't let me add it.

When I was browsing at -1 to make sure I wasn't the 57th person to add the article text, I noticed some lovely ASCII depicting a gay man's ass though, that, accoring to the lameness filter, is LESS lame than this article. Perhaps the troll-moron that posted it should submit it as a story to slashdot.

Re:Article text in case of /. effect: (updated)

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry 'bout your uid, man.

There we go again...

[Kynde]

That's just great. If this is gonna be anything like the db benchmarking boom a year ago in lkml for the new vm which resulted some increase in db benches and fscked up the interactivity completely (by being a really happy page thrower), we're looking for a real nice desktop scheduler... :)

Seriously though, Morton's a great chap and one of the few that has really worked for also a desktopwise usable kernel (low latency patches, lock breaking patches, and the list would go on forever).

I can barely wait for 61-AS to compile...

multiple write tasks, why ! que it with shell?

[aaron_pet]

The article mentions multiple simultaneous writes and reads... Doing two tasks at once in much more expensive than doing them sequentially.

Why not use the download manager programs... for all file transfering?

My priorities:
1. user interface responds effectively in realtime.
2. CD writes don't fail
3. Video doesn't skip
4. files transfer quickly.

I would actually like the ability to switch the mode of the file schedualer.

If I am not doing 2. or 3. then why not switch to something that makes 4 happen?

I saw something rediculous, like a 10 second wait for a login prompt??!?!

The system should have that all ready ahead of time, and it should take no more than .5 second to get a login screen.

--I don't care about spelling enough to spend the vast quantity of time to get this to the spell checker.

Re:multiple write tasks, why ! que it with shell?

[Anonymous Coward]

is it my imagination or are more recent versions of linux less responsive than before. maybe it's not the kernel but the UI (gnome or KDE), or the shells themselves... i have an old RH6.1 box here at work i use as a fairly dumb terminal onto our development servers (running RH7.3) and both the shell and emacs keep up with my typing no problems. other people have RH7.3 on their machines (identical hardware to mine, or slightly better) and the shell and emacs seem to always be a few keystrokes behind. it's like typing into VC++ where you have to keep pausing while it catches up with you. my box may not be as flash and pretty as 7.3 but it is a lot nicer to work with.

ps. pls don't suggest i upgrade to some other linux distro - this is my work box and the choice of distro is dictated by the fact we use some commercial middleware products in our development and they only officially support RedHat so that's what we stick with for an easier life. we did have some other distros for a while but we had to standardise for the sake of simplicity...

Oops, didn't say why,

[aaron_pet]

When I copy two things at once, that is because I don't want to be arround the computer to select the next file.

I rarely care when it does it, I just don't want to be there.

Some times I want to move a file to make room for another file that I have to get.

If I could tell the computer to start downloading as soon as the move is done, I'd walk away from the computer and go exercise or something. (I'm thinking p2p, full HD, I could probably already do this with shell scripting)

I spend WAY too much time sitting in front of the computer watching status bars slowly lengthen, then shorten...

Not exactly

[the ed menace]

Actually Mach was developed at CMU under Rick Rashid. Tevanian was a graduate student of his. Most of the Mach team is at Microsoft Research, including Rashid (who heads up Microsoft Research). They tried to convince Tevanian to come there, but he decided instead to go to NeXT Computer, which also was based on the Mach microkernel. When Apple acquired NeXT, it took most of their OS and development philosophy also.

Anticipation

[Ed Avis]

I can't wait for the anticipatory scheduler to be used in a stable kernel release... I'm really looking forward to it.

Profile Guided Optimisation

[jpmorgan]

It's called profile guided optimisation. Most decent compilers support it these days.

Even Ketchup can't wait anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

Heinz Ketchup has a squeeze bottle on the market now. Don't know if they still have the glass. If so, they'll probably be phasing it out.

Even Ketchup has the need for speed!

Re:Even Ketchup can't wait anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

A viscous circle, no?

Adding gearshift to a Linux box ?

[ehack]

Will be adding a gearshift to a Linux box soon, ie a control that allows us to switch the machine from Web Server to DVD machine to interactive development station ?

The difference between waiting 60 seconds and 15 seconds for a login prompt MATTERS !

Methinks we need new benchmarks that take interactivity into account explicitly, or things will never improve.

Re:Adding gearshift to a Linux box ?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what the contest benchmark is for: it simulates a user task (a kernel compile) in presence of system load (io load, mem load, process load...); so the faster the kernel compilation finishes; it means that hte system was more "interactive"

Re:Adding gearshift to a Linux box ?

[ehack]

Interactive means something is "clicking around" . Interactive is very different from "behaviour under load" although the latter is also an important issue.
I am not saying that behavior under load is unimportant;
but a car shifts gears for a slope and for high speed.

Maybe KDE could auto-magically change the scheduler to speed up reactivity whne it sees the user clicking around ?

And like everything else in Linux land...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the article is utterly unreadable. Just a plain text dumb. Come on people, is it that hard to plot a few datapoints in a graph?

I don't care about schedulers

[jlanng]

I want to know what it was like meeting Princess Diana!

Diana: Her True Story in Her Own Words by Andrew Morton

Re:I don't care about schedulers

[jlanng]

Duh, it isn't offtopic. Have you read the article? The guy who did the benchmarks shares the name with the guy who wrote the famous book

Is there a patch against the 2.4.20 series kernel?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd really like on to enable this feature. surely it can be done..? Or is this patch compatible with the 2.4.20 series kernel?

Separating devices?

[42forty-two42]

The static copy of the story dosen't indicate if the I/O scheduler blocks on all filesystems, or separately on each one? Ie if I have a read on filesystem A, would another write on filesystem B be affected?

Preemption patches

[Sits]

Are you sure that you are not seeing the improved desktop interactivity from the kernel premption and low latency patches in 2.5? I suspect that they would affect desktop interactivity more than this scheduler...

ObComicBookGuy

[sharkey]

You obviously should have remodulated it with a hyperspanner.

It's a HYDROSPANNER. Your innacurate Star Wars references make me laugh.

Anticipatory scheduling is:

[master_p]

Here is the explanation of what anticipatory scheduling is. From what I have understood (please correct me if I am wrong, I am not a kernel hacker), 'anticipatory scheduling' means the following:

The I/O subsystem (the part of the operating system that reads/writes to/from the hard disk) waits a little longer before servicing an I/O request from an application other than the current one; if the current application issues another I/O request while the I/O subsystem is waiting, the overall system throughput is higher because the hard disk's head moves less.

Linux != (KDE || GNOME)

[moncyb]

Linux is incredibly slow when compared to Windows.

You don't know what you are talking about. I've run plenty of Linux and M$ configurations, and every time Linux has been faster. My 500Mhz K6-2 Linux system takes less than 30 seconds to boot, including the 10-15 seconds the BIOS takes.

Windows simply handles multithreading better.

Yeah whatever. Linux handles forking many times better.

Mozilla takes 2x as long to open in linux and if I try to open multiple apps at once, it takes minutes for any of them to come up.

What are you comparing against? Mozilla on Linux vs IE on Windows? You do realize MS preloads the IE binaries on boot? If it's Mozilla on each platform, I'd want to know why it takes longer. Does your binary have GNOME/KDE dependencies? The developers may also have put in MS Windows specific stuff--Netscape's primary focus was and is MS Windows for the most part, and their developers suck--which is why Mozilla/Netscape Navigator are so bloated and crappy in the first place.

The reason it takes so long to start up because it is a bloated piece of crap, and the other apps who take minutes to come up must be bloated too. (you mentioned KDE, it is not essential, and it is very bloated. It also requires a daemon called DCOP, which probably accounts for half the startup time.) This is why your "linux" apps take a long time to start.

I don't run KDE or GNOME. Most of my programs don't take more than 5 seconds to load, and start instantly if their files are already in my cache. The only two that don't are GIMP and Mozilla. The GIMP takes less than 15 seconds, and only so because it has tonnes of plugins to load. Mozilla is bloated like I said.

And you can tell the I/O is crap just by looking at KDE's performance when compared to Win2k. Windows just flies.

Yes, KDE's performance. Not the performance of Linux. Not XFree86's performance. KDE's performance. You do not need KDE or GNOME to run a Linux workstation. I don't get why people do this.

Part of this of course is that my version of Linux (Debian) can be recompiled to run on many platforms and everyone can tell you that portability comes at the cost of platform-specific performance.

A bogus statement. If you have a good compiler[1] and use optimizing flags, then cross-"platform"[2] programs don't have a significant performance hit, and not any more than MS's designs. There are some types of applications where assembly language (meaning processor specific instructions) will make the program perform better, but if you look closely, many of the open source projects which will benefit from this already do it--for at least the IA32 (80386+) processors, if not others.

[1] gcc 2.95.3 is good enough for me, but I hear Intel's Linux compiler works even better for processors made by Intel. The assumption where cross platform applications don't perform well is FUD spread by Microsoft.

[2] Here I think you mean different processor designs, but it can apply to different operating systems too.

Sorry for the delay

[oqti]

Go on... With or without credit, I don't really care.
Heh :)

auto karma

[leehwtsohg]

Why not do a script that karma-whores the web page to slashdot the second the site gets slashdotted. Auto karma!
Actually, I think several people already have such a script.