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GDC: 10 Reasons NOT to Make MMOGs
Warrior-GS writes "Gordon Walton, who helped create such games as Ultima Online and the Sims Online, is at the Game Developers Conference giving a seminar on "Ten Reasons You Don't Want to Run a Massively Multiplayer Online Game". GameSpy has been providing coverage of GDC, with several game previews and several conference reports. They also have a hands-on report of the Nokia N-Gage from four of their editors, and a somewhat unorthodox report of the Game Developer Choice Awards, where Metroid Prime was named Game of the Year. The convention continues through Saturday."
"Please don't make them, because we don't want any more competition."
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
If you are only going to make a half-assed attempt then you may as well not bother.
.. if they do then we're probably all doomed
Surely the brightest minds in game development dont need someone standing up there telling them that massive online multiplayer games aren't as easy as single player ones?!
I'll mostly agree with you, but I thought prime was a little too easy. Since you know the NES version, you'll remember how hard that was to beat. (Now that I have NES metroid unlocked on the GC, I'm playing through that, and I'm having a hell of a time keeping from dying!)
Despite the incredible production value, Prime just wasn't as challenging.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
I particularly like the realization that Customer Service is the key to maintaining a well-run MMOG. If you want a steady stream of cash coming in, it only makes sense that it takes a steady stream of cash to support your customers - but all too often, customer service is viewed as a grudging neccesity, not a potential for competitive advantage.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
This, I think, falls under that rarely used "constructive" branch of criticism.
All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
They shouldn't be regulated for one very good reason.
Personal responsibility!
Maybe you've heard of it. Your grades are slipping because you play too much EverCrack? Too bad, quit playing EverCrack. Can't quit playing EverCrack? Seek out addiction counseling, it's availabe, often for free. Your ass is getting fat because you've eaten too many cheeseburgers? Quit eating cheesburgers every day.
A little common sense and some personal responsibility seem to be sorely lacking in the populace today.
...was that MMOG are A LOT harder to create and run than your standard game (console and PC included).
Just like with FPS and RTS games there is this rush with the success of UO and EQ to make these MMOG persistent games by small companies. These games will more than likely fail due to the lack of resources. This is deluting the MMOG genre because everyone is promissing to be the next "EQ Killer" and failing to deliver in one way or another.
So if you have a company and are thinking about making some persistent world, stop and make damn sure you plan a lot of resource and time into it...then double it. If word of mouth can kill a stand alone game it will uttery destroy an online one.
Massively Multiplayer Online ChatRoom ;)
Seriously, these games need to be made so they have a real point, and so that people will not get so attached to them. I'm sick of seeing my friends drop out of classes because they'd rather wait two hours for an imaginary dragon to spawn so they can cast the same spell over and over again and after another half hour they die and sit around waiting for someone to resurrect them.
I have a friend who's 65th level on EQ. (Currently the highest possible so he says proudly). He's also a year behind in his studies, and has had bouts of depression and alchololism (due to his lack of social life) for the past three years.
Pardon the sudden rant, but why can't there be an actuall MMOG that people can spend, oh, 1-3 hours on a week instead of 10-30 hours a week and still have fun.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Sony has LONG since tackled the issue of harrasing customer phone calls with their customer service program, "Operation: Go Fuck Yourself". Sony believed that if you truly just stopped giving a shit, eventually your customers would pick up on this and quit asking for help. It's a beautiful, horrifying behemoth of a program that paid off big time in their favor. Grats to them.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
One of the main points, one which he put much stress on (and I'm glad to see this) is Customer Support. Problems happen; and if the game is to survive and prosper, good support is essential. I've been playing EverQuest for some time, and the support there (which has improved) is still, in my opinion, subpar and problems are often very hard to get some answers/help for. Especially when you have technical issues.
The old joke was this; "Verant changed the mean of CS; it now means 'Customers Suck'."
He mentions in the article how 'old business models' aren't suitable for online games; reffering to the pre-packaged product.
Surely the answer then is to develop a new business model adapted to the new market?
Is this too blindingly obvious? (I would think he mentions this in the seminar although its not in the article)
"And don't call me Shirley!"
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
The author sees problems that need to be micromanaged. In my experience with projects like this, you need organic growth, not sudden, rapid growth like the Sims Online got. Many users are willing to create content for you, if you waive their monthly fee. This could represent a small portion of your userbase, and the content creators become more valuable than their waived fee. In regards to customer service, many of the most sucessful online games have a group of players who are in a "mentor" role. They answer questions, help out newbies, etc. Some do it out of good will, others do it for special privilages they get in the game. These two simple steps can drastically reduce the complexity of an online game.
Have you tried beating it in hard mode? In under x hours? With 100%
The thing I like about MP, that I liked about Super Metroid, is that you can beat it, or you can beat it
You will probably need to go through the game several times before you come close to even mastering it (or remembering where all the items are).
For the longest time I was dissapointed that they didnt release a Metroid for the N64, but now that I've played MP, I'm glad they waited. The game is truly stunning in looks, gameplay, and immersion.
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
10: Too Many are Being Built
But there are very, very few good ones.
9: It Requires a Mastery of Too Many Disciplines
Oooh, I thought that was half the fun. It's like saying "the tech tree is just too darned big!" in MoO3
8: A Huge Team is Required
But somebody is obviously making money off of it, so what's the problem again?
7: Getting a Credit Card from a Customer is Hard
Huh? Not from somebody who actually wants to play the game. Maybe you're talking about the whiny 15 year olds I hear on the XBox forums all the time.
6: The Online Industry is Counter-Intuitive to Packaged-Goods Company Management
So you look towards other examples of services that have succeeded with "24-hour operations, 365 days a year, with continuous customer support, etc, etc". Is this really a reason not to make an MMOMMOMMORPG? Sony obviously disagrees.
5: Everything You Know about Single-Player Games is Wrong
Um, not really. Plot? Interaction? The mastery of many disciplines????? Sure, there are radical difference in some areas, but a reason not to make a MMORPG? Pretty weak.
4: The Internet Sucks as a Commercial Delivery Platform
Dot bust, blahblahblah. Once again, where you complain, others have succeeded.
3: Customer Service is Hard
I'm sorry, but this man's "points" sound increasingly like whining. Customer service is a fact of life. Yes it's online. No, it's not crippling. DEAL WITH IT.
2: There are Lots of Legal Issues
Like ANY industry. He refers to Ultima misfortune. Last I heard, ultima was a good example of how not to handle an MMORPG. It was especially bad in it's opening years if I remember right. Customers were revolting in droves. So yeah, if you screw your fanbase over, I can see the potential legal issues.
1: They Cost Too Much money to Build and Launch!
Perhapse, but lets refer to point #10: Their are too many being built. Points #10 and #1 don't exactly share a happy coexistance with one another in why you shouldn't make an MMORPG. "My God! They cost too much, but everybody is building them anyway!" Huh? Either A) You're lying/Don't have a clue or B) There s enough profit potential inspite of reasons 1-10 to do it anyway.
If you said C) Both A and B, you get a star.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I agree. This is THE biggest problem with MMORPG-type games. Everyone really wants to see dynamic game worlds, but making one would be such an undertaking that I doubt it is fully possible right now.
What I mean by "dynamic" game world is one where players can have a significant effect on the world's events.
An ideal example situation is as follows:
There is a zone highly populated with orc raiders. Within the zone is the orcs' lair, where the orc leader is. The elders of the nearby town are offering a huge reward to get rid of the orc leader.
A group manages to kill the orc leader. Instead of the orc leader respawning, the orc forces disperse in the zone as a result of the lack of leadership. Perhaps they will regroup in another zone at a later time. As a result of this, there are far less orc spawns in the zone, and the orc cave is now abandoned. Perhaps another type of creature will move in after things have settled down and people have forgotten the orc incident.
Of course, such a thing is VERY hard to do, while at the same time allowing other players a similar experience.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
It is NOT a drug "akin to producing cigarettes." Cigarette's create a physical dependency where your body, not your mind, craves more.
Online games can only create emotional dependencies. Sure, when your emotions are wracked, you can have jitters and sweat, but it has everything to do with you and nothing to do with the game.
No, there is no warning on the game that it can become addictive. Yes, it can become addictive to some people. Of course, exercise (over exercise), dieting (over dieting), bird-watching, mountain climbing, car driving, gambling, TV watching, cloud watching can also all become addictive to some people.
We do NOT need warning labels on everything expressing the dangers that people who can't limit themselves face. If anything, there should be a warning sign as you are carried from the hospital after birth:
"Caution, life may be habit forming."
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Maybe you've heard of it. Your grades are slipping because you play too much EverCrack? Too bad, quit playing EverCrack. Can't quit playing EverCrack? Seek out addiction counseling, it's availabe, often for free. Your ass is getting fat because you've eaten too many cheeseburgers? Quit eating cheesburgers every day.
Damn right, it's like that old joke:
Cute female student: I would do anything to pass this course.
Old professor: Anything?
Cute female student: Absolutely anything!
Old professor: Would you... study?
your mkmorpg will make millions (3) and cost millions to develop and support (5) so you'll wind up losing (-2) millions!
I'm a fan of online gaming but the stakes in the MMORPGs are too high. You feel like you're always behind. Where as in Neverwinter or Counter Strike you're only as good as the map and your skills.
Which mine have deminished significantly recently, where are you CS:Condition Zero?!?!?!?!
Aye. That's also what makes it fun. You stand back and look at your gear and abilities and feel a sense of accomplishment. Not only that, if you can actually enjoy playing the game and getting all that new shiny stuff, it makes for a fun experience.
I play the game to travel to cool places, each with their own feel. I play it to enjoy the risks and the rewards. Getting new stuff only makes overcoming said obstacles even more fun.
Thankfully, I'm not so drawn into the game that I can't have a social life. =)
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
Yes, but those of us still interested in this approach are free to avoid the blogs and walkthroughs... I'm a little old-school, so I avoid walkthroughs until I just can't figure it or get myself worked up... ;)
*MY HEART*
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Essentially the situation was that unless you were some no-life loser who spent 10 hours a day on the system you were doomed to slowly, very slowly slog, slog away watching that exp bar crawl up one pixel at a time. After an eternity you raise a level, learn a few new skills or spells and repeat. The process for the casual player (as in a few hours a night) was just an exercise in tedium. There was no 'balance' here - the game was tuned to make progress as slow and as painful as possible. Worse, it was tuned assuming folks were twinked with unfeasibly over powered armour and weapons. So unless you wasted a disproportionate amount of time raising funds to buy uber gear you stood no chance of progressing because the mobs would murder you in a second.
It wasn't just the game that was the problem. Patch after patch and expansion after expansion demonstrated beyond a doubt that Verant didn't give a shit about the casual player. Every single expansion without exception has been deliberately aimed at the high level player. Sure you might see some 'newbie' zones but by and large expansions were developed for 30+ players, i.e. those already 'hooked'.
So casual gamers could basically fuck off. If you weren't constantly running EQ fullscreen for 10 hours a day there was little chance of progress. After the abysmal Shadows of Luclin expansion followed by a price rise I dumped the damned thing and I'm glad I did. It was a wrench to be sure, no doubt from the Skinner box like reward model, but I'm happy to be rid of the bloody thing. I don't think short of some extraordinarily positive reviews I would ever touch an online game written by Sony or Verant again.
Now addressing your points of EQ / AC players moving back from version 2 to 1. I would not be surprised if Verant and Microsoft offered 'migration' paths that enable characters to upgrade from the old version to the new one. I would be extremely surprised if they offered a route in the other direction.