The Future of PC Games, According to Microsoft

Geaty writes "Gamespot has an article up about Microsoft's big PC plans. Topics covered include why DirectX 9 will be the last DX for a while, the increased game support in Longhorn, and a 'standard' PC controller. Looks to this ignorant reader like Microsoft is trying to tackle the games market (again?), cornering matchmaking and patching. The controller issue seems like an attempt to bring to the PC platform some of the uniformity that consoles have."

Comments

Activation Key

[D4Vr4nt]

I wonder if you'll need to use an Activation key for their new controllers? :P

But seriously, why would PC's need a standard gaming controller?? I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

Re:Activation Key

[jkcity]

some games are just easier to play on a game pad, and in my opionion is less strain on the hands, don't know if thats the same for everyoen though.

You can also sit further back from the screen, I know you could do this with remote keyboards or mice, or one's with long cables, but for the most part its impracticle.

Re:Activation Key

[lewp]

No, it's not just you.

FPS games (which get the majority of my time) almost require a keyboard and mouse to play properly. While games such as Goldeneye may be perfectly playable on a console for most people, purists like myself want to vomit at the lack of control. Likewise, the additional buttons on the keyboard and pointing precision of the mouse make them a much better choice for RPG and RTS games.

On the other hand, sports, fighting, and driving games are better suited to console controllers. This is especially true in that these sort of games are often best experienced with a buddy or two playing next to you. Sharing a keyboard with your opponent is just no fun, as players of earlier PC sports games will be glad to tell you.

A platform with both options is well on its way to the perfect game machine. A PC with a standardized control pad is rather close to an Xbox. Funny, that. Good move on Microsoft's part.

Re:Activation Key

[ATMAvatar]

But seriously, why would PC's need a standard gaming controller?? I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

Considering Microsoft's console entry, XBox, the hardware it runs on, and the fact it runs windows... this could be a push to finally turn computers into a total entertainment solution. As it stands now, you can play PC games, watch movies, check email, etc, etc, etc... and it's not that much of a stretch to turn your PC into a console as well, should they standardize controllers. The XBox is already essentially a wintel machine, so coming out with software that added console functionality couldn't be terribly hard.

The video game industry is huge, and I could very easily see Microsoft trying to push windows into the console industry as well. Why would you ever want to buy a console again, if playing the games was as simple as buying a $30 controller and some $30-50 games for a computer you already have?

I already play tons of old emulated games on my PC with a game controller. Personally, I would be quite happy if I could just grab console games and play them without having to drop another $200-300 on console hardware.

Of course, this is all conjecture, so take it cum grano salis.

Re:Activation Key

[Anonymous Coward]

I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake with the nintendo 64 controller.

I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake against you with a ps/2 mouse!

Re:Activation Key

[Pxtl]

While I agree with you that a gamepad is nice for multiple players on one machine - but I can count the number of games that both support USB and multiplayer on one machine on one hand. Meaning that, right now, the PC is piss poor for console games, and the PC already has a good architecture for gamepads and games - Atomic Bomberman is a dream with 8 players and a good USB hub ($10 gamepads and a good USB hub are all you need).

That being said, the problem is Microsoft. Directplay stupidly names the axes and assumes how they are meant to be used. Really, the axes should be unlabelled and rebound at the users discretion. The whole glory of PC hardware is that it embraces new standards as it needs. The SpaceOrb would never exist on a console (they tried, it didn't work).

Personally, I don't want PC standardized pads - it would encourage PC game developers to slack-off on configurability of the controls the way they do on consoles (like UT for Dreamcast console has NO standard Turok style setting - its 4 available setups are all unplayable if you want the alt-fire and jump available).

The fact is that PC's dont come with gamepads, and so gamepads will never be standard. That creates the reciprocal relationship that gamepad-oriented games (fighting games, platformers) do not catch on on PC's.

I don't see it as a problem with the gamepads. PC gamepad system is good and the USB+Directplay is an excellent and good enough standard (for MS boxen). The problem is the games. If MS wants to fix the problem, they need to publish some console-style multiplayer PC games. I've got 4 directplay compatible gamepads collecting dust because I've found 4 games that can handle them all, and one of them I made myself.

Re:Activation Key

[rowdent]

The PS2 has both options for some games such as Red Faction 2. You can plug a USB mouse and keyboard into the console to play PC-style.

Re:Activation Key

[br0ck]

Atomic Bomberman is a dream

You should try xblast, it's actually much more fun in my opinion. It's available here or for other platforms try the left links at the (noisy) homepage, or grab the Debian package.

Re:Activation Key

[NomNet]

Yes, but many windows games do not support directplay-based joysticks (particularly SDL-based ports from Linux)

Which games exactly ? I've run a pair of N64 pads via USB adaptors for a few years now, and never found anything incompatible.

playing directly from cd

[Gryftir]

the man from Microsoft suggests that longhorn will give users the ability to play games directly from the cd, without installation. Which is great in theory, but what does that mean? Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder* or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish. At least that's what I think, if somebody can think up other possibilities, I'm all ears.

Jacob

Re:playing directly from cd

[anon*127.0.0.1]

I wonder whats so great about being able to play from the CD? Personally, I'd much rather have it the other way... install the game once, then store the CD somewhere because it won't be needed any more. Having to track down the stupid CD every time you want to play a game would be a pain. Not to mention the problems if it gets scratched or melted or whatever.

I mean, whats the attraction to being able to run off CD? Hard drive space is pretty cheap these days. I guess maybe there are some people who get intimidated when they try to install software, but if that's the issue it should be fixed by making software installation easier.

Re:playing directly from cd

[sql*kitten]

the man from Microsoft suggests that longhorn will give users the ability to play games directly from the cd, without installation. Which is great in theory, but what does that mean? Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder* or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish. At least that's what I think, if somebody can think up other possibilities, I'm all ears.

Yes, because the old Playstation has enough RAM to cache a complete CD. And an internal HD that Sony just didn't tell you about.

Oh, wait, it doesn't have either of those, how can it play games straight from the CD?

Re:playing directly from cd

[SScorpio]

You wouldn't need to cache the entire disk into RAM.

If the game is designed properly certain levels should only need a set number of resources.

You could also do what the Xbox does. The Xbox has 3 ~800MB partitions setup purely for caching games. Each game you play gets on cache partition and they are rolled over if you play four games. Some Xbox games place their common resources directly on the cache partition during startup and display of the company logos.

After this is done all the common data or most of the data used in a level is on the HD. Only level specific data such as the map layouts that are loaded when you start a level are kept on the disk. This way you get a load inbetween levels, but there isn't a sputter during play of the level because the data it needs thats not in RAM is on the HD.

I view this as a definate plus. When the CD-ROM was originally released many computer games ran directly off the CD and only used the HD to store save files and maybe the executable to allow patching. As time progressed now more and more data is put on the HD, the CD has effectively become just one really large floppy disk for the game to be destributed on. With any hope this change will occur and lead to more efficient game design.

Oh boy

[Gortbusters.org]

From the article: As has been rumored, Longhorn will likely include a major overhaul in Window's visual presentation, which may include 3D interface elements. Lester also said it would include a special "My Games" view that would centralize all the matchmaking, control panel settings, patching tools, and game lists and make such tasks much simpler. Microsoft is working on streamlining a number of current technical trouble areas, like the installation process and display drivers, and will centralize game updates through a Windows Update-like patch server. It's also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation. Somewhat more straightforward features include adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger and parental controls over which users can play certain games.

Integrated match making? So, while I'm busy running around in DAOC, blowing shit up in the next Duke Nukem, I can also be matched up... with what? Other games? Dating Services?

Second interesting point is the no-installation-needed... so PC games and XBox games will be seamlessly transferable? Neato!

Why a new 'standard' controller?

[Papineau]

All computers already have 'standard' controllers: they're called keyboard and mouse. Works like a charm in most game genres I prefer (FPS and RTS).

Re:Why a new 'standard' controller?

[TheRaven64]

I've always considered the diversity of controlers on the PC to be one of its advantages as a gaming platform. You want to play an RPG or RTS game? Fine use a keyboard or mouse. Want to play a driving game? Get a wheel. Flight sim? Pick a joystick you like.

DirectInput abstracted the details of the controllers from the developer. All you needed to do was define a set of digital (i.e. button) and analogue (axis) controls, and the uses could configure these to their own preferences. Defining a 'standard' control seems like a step backwards.

Gaming is the next frontier

[Camel Pilot]

At least in terms of generating new hardware and software sales. Right now a 3 year old machine runs most business and office type applications adequately and there is very little incentive to upgrade. Unlike the good old days when an upgrade was need approximately every 1.2 years just to run the newest spreadsheet which had features that you desperately needed.

Games on the hand are much more intensive and often hook into unique operating system facilities that provide an incentive to upgrade. Case in point I just bought my son a new jet sim game this week end and it would not run wn Win2000 but would on XP. It was dog slow and often froze on my ancient 450 K5 and 900 Mhz Duron. And had be tbinking of buying a new machine while I sat waiting to reboot the system every 30 minutes.

Re:Gaming is the next frontier

[OzJimbob]

If you ask me, that's the PROBLEM with games - they have become the ultimate bloat-ware. Insane memory and processor usage, and the latest 3d visual effects, do not necessarily make a good game - just look at the success of games like The Sims that don't require a $500 3D card and a liquid-cooled processor. Personally, I have more fun playing Sonic the Hedgehog in my emulator...

Re:Gaming is the next frontier

[The Briguy]

Right now a 3 year old machine runs most business and office type applications adequately and there is very little incentive to upgrade. Unlike the good old days when an upgrade was need approximately every 1.2 years just to run the newest spreadsheet which had features that you desperately needed.

I think the same can really be said for gaming as well. At one point in the late 90s I was getting a new computer every 1 1/2 years because my old PC just couldn't keep up. In 1999, though, I bought a 500 MHZ box, and with just a few small upgrades it got me through to last summer. My current computer, an Athlon 1800+ with a Geforce 4, can run absolutely any game I throw at it, and I really can't see that changing anytime soon. What that means, really, is that the PC market is finally stablizing after years of explosive growth, and so a new PC standard system seems to me to be a really good idea. GPC (Gaming PC) Level 1 could be your 500 MHZ machine, for running massive-appeal games like the Sims. GPC2 could be a 1 GHZ machine, capable of running mainstream games, like Warcraft III, etc, and the GPC3 would be a 1.5 GHZ machine with a Geforce 4, capable of running the high end games out there. Seems like a good idea to me.

Re:Gaming is the next frontier

[Jason Earl]

The problem with this theory is that PC games seriously undercut XBox profits. After all, if you buy an XBox game Microsoft automatically gets a percentage. If you buy the same game for the PC then Microsoft gets nothing. Make no mistake, when Microsoft came out with the XBox their goal was the complete and utter distruction of PC gaming. The fact that they are now changing their tune indicates a sea change an One Microsoft Way.

The reason that Microsoft is changing their mind is two fold. First of all, Microsoft is facing the first real competition for the desktop in ages. Both Apple and the Linux community are fielding credible alternatives, and games are one of the advantages of owning a Windows PC. Secondly, the accountants at Microsoft are smart enough to know that their current XBox strategy simply isn't feasible. By the time that Microsoft is likely to stop losing money on XBox and XBox live sales they are very likely to face new competition from Sony and Nintendo's new consoles, triggering a new XBox console and a whole new round of bloodshed. The idea of putting high-end PC chips in a console was a novel concept, but giving these boxes away (ie. selling them at a price that is competitive to the PS2) has proved extraordinarily expensive. A shift back to PC gaming would put the onus of paying for the hardware back on the gamer's shoulders. Hardware, as Microsoft is realizing, is the sort of game where it is easy to lose your shirt.

Which is why the article focused on the services that Microsoft is going to provide PC gamers. That's how Microsoft is planning on making their dinero. Think of it as XBox Live without Microsoft having to pay an $150 subsidy for the hardware. Instead of losing money on the XBox and then trying to make it back in services, Microsoft will let Dell, HP, Gateway and the rest of the hardware OEMs sort out the manufacturing and sales of hardware, and Microsoft will simply skim money off the top hooking gamers up with online games and software patches.

In short, enjoy your XBoxes while you can, Microsoft is getting out of the console business.

Keyboard and mouse fail it

[yerricde]

I can't see the keyboard mouse combo going anywhere anytime soon..

Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

Try connecting more than one keyboard and mouse to one computer. One computer per player is much too expensive.

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[jsse]

Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

That's not fair, even a grade school kid knows a standard keyboard can deal more damage than a standard PS1 controller. Not to mention the extra punching effect dealt by that 101 keys. Oh and that removable, throwable ball in the mouse is also an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Of course, he might stand a chance if he use a non-standard joystick type controller, but only when the stick is being stuck into the right place on your opponent.

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[Stonent1]

Try playing Street Fighter II with a keyboard and mouse. Watch me whip you with a PS1 controller connected to the PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.

Well, if you want to make a fool of yourself, go ahead. I've been MAMEing on a keyboard since the start and continue to give diehard controller gamers a nice man-beating. I've even played them against me on the keyboard and them on the arcade control. See my website Mame Arcade Cabinet. When I play SFII, SFA, SFA2,SFA3 on keyboard I can rock anyone.

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[Some Dumbass...]

Oh and that removable, throwable ball in the mouse is also an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Just think of it as a "special move" :)

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[KilerCris]

The big problem with controllers is that most of them are designed to be thumb-oriented, with recent controllers featuring triggers to use your index finger as well. The big advantage of using a keyboard for most game is that you can use ALL your fingers. This enables you much, much more speed and greater control over your character's movement and other actions. When I'm playing Halo on my Xbox I always curl my right index finger to the top of the controller, where all the buttons are, and use my middle finger to shoot. Is this really necessary? If I were playing it on my PC w/ a keyboard I would have fingers ready to do every major action in an instant. ...and there isn't even an arguement against a mouse's superiority for aiming in an FPS. Considering that in the entire history of consoles there have been what? 2? 3? successful FPSs, and IMHO this is only because of the frustration involved with aiming in an FPS with a joystick.

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[KilerCris]

What controller designers need to start doing is taking advantage of all those unused fingers and stop dumping all the work on the thumbs.

I don't even use my thumbs all that much when playing PC games with a keyboard...

Re:Keyboard and mouse fail it

[quantaman]

Oh and that removable, throwable ball in the mouse is also an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Yet another reason why I bought a track ball :)

MS doesn't want DX on the PC to outshine the Xbox

[Leknor]

Microsoft doesn't want DirectX on the PC to get too far ahead of the Xbox. They don't want developers and people to realize in 2 years the Xbox is a 3 year old PC equilivant of what their grandmother is using.

Good work!

[jsse]

Microsoft doesn't expect to release another major DirectX update for a couple of years.
It's also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation.
Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller

Microsoft is really heading the right way - gaming. The idea of boot-n-play and standard controller really makes standard PC an excellent game console, and that's the way we long to see. They should really put more focus on what they are really good and and not waste time on fighting with other platforms with things they aren't good at.

I can foresee the future propaganda of Microsoft Windows - 'Ultimate Gaming Platform for PC and your great office assistant'. :)

System Requirements?

[TC (WC)]

Am I the only person that thinks that System Requirement scheme sounds horrifically complicated and painful. How exactly, do you plan to describe a computer in a single character?

It simplifies things down to a small number of levels (or to a level of complexity that's stupid, like having to remember that you have a level 3.25 B R23 computer). What happens if you have a processer intensive game that requires little hardware video and sound acceleration? How does that compare to a game that has a great deal of hardware acceleration and requires very little processor power. At least the current system is able to specifically list individual requirements. If, however, you plan to rank individual requirements on a scale of some sort, how does that simplify anything at all?

Re:System Requirements?

[HoneyBunchesOfGoats]

I agree that this is a bad idea, and for much the same reasons. Take a step back, and look at the overall trend that Microsoft is pushing: that of dumbing the PC down. Instead of having the user adapt and learn the manner in which the complicated piece of technology sitting before them works, MS is reducing intelligence needed to use a computer. Instead of a P4 2.0ghz with a Geforce 3, you now have a 'level one PC'. Instead of having users learn how to use file structure, there are hard-coded 'My Music', 'My Pictures', etc.; endless wizards that you can't stop from popping up (but I didn't want to install that hardware yet!), and the Office Assistant. This might be good for people who have never seen a computer before in their life, but once you get past a certain point, the metaphor they use to simplify the PC fails, and fails miserably. Technology shouldn't be dumbed down; people should learn how things work.

Re:System Requirements?

[Bakaneko]

Release it as an app, and give various classes of machines code words...

Then you just download an app (or heck, since this is MS, its part of the OS), and every time you click on About Computer or whatever (or even as some sort of icon embedded in a task bar, start menu, whatever) you get a "You have a 'Turnip' class PC!"

OK, maybe not the Turnip part, but you get the picture. If they choose their iconography or scheme well, then its something that can be printed on the back of a box. Perhaps colors in a rainbow. The problem with colors though is that they're always going to need new ones as newer/better stuff comes out.

Uniformity

[Plix]

Software uniformity is hardly the greatest of the PC game-maker's concerns as hardware configurations are far more diverse. It would seem, however, that the new ATI and nVidia offerings are bringing graphics closer and closer to photo-realistic quality and hopefully once such a quality is reached and the majority of casual gamers have the necessary hardware the focus of PC games will shift back towards the gameplay, storyline, and complexity that simply cannot be matched by console games.

assuming the above occurs, one must also realize that consoles are killing themselves in some aspects. one of the best aspects of early consoles such as the atari 2600 and nintendo was the ease of use - simply pop in a cart and play, no hardware, software, or OS issues. now take a look at the X-Box and PS2 (gamecube doesn't fit the paradigm but also is not as popular and arguably targeted at a much younger audience over all): they have hard-drives, increasingly complex RISC OSs, and are constructed at least partially of modified PC parts. with new features promised such as patches available over the internet and hardware expansions the consoles are turning themselves into nothing more than mini-PCs, and personally I'd rather spend a few hundred more dollars and buy myself a decent desktop PC.

hmmmm

[JeanBaptiste]

Dungeon Siege or Neverwinter Nights. Thats not a tough choice.

Combat Flight Sim 3 or IL2. Thats not a tough choice.

Age of Empires or Europa Universalis 2 (for realism) or any command and conquer game (for the same gameplay) That also is not a tough choice

how about Trainz vs Microsoft Train Simulator. Once again, the non-ms product has it.

Okay, the microsoft 4x4 monster truck game (cant rememvber the title exacly) against 4x4 EVO. I would rather have the non-microsoft SUV.

The close combat series was GREAT under SSI, microsoft made it suck. The UI was improved, but the playability went to nothing.

The future of Microsoft games seems to be: find a successful genre and then make a second rate game...I guess you could argue the same about their office suite and their OS, but thats not the point of this post. The future of gaming historically has not been microsoft. It has been someone else, then microsoft makes the same game with a better UI... Not just a troll, but a hardcore gamer's opinion...

Daisy chaining controllers

[Kodi]

Hope their new standard includes support for daisy chaining controllers. Not that LAN play isn't vastly superior to split-screen, but since they're trying to do it right they might as well go all the way.

"Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller"

[bobobobo]

Hey Mr. Game Developer, why don't you go ahead and port that nifty new pc game to the Xbox2 too while you're at it? Look it has a controller also, what a coincidence!

Where it hurts most

[Bytal]

Sure hit Linux users where it hurts the most...games!!! Now theres less and less chance for Linux compatible games. Its gonna be Linux for office/technical stuff and Windows for gaming...ohh wait:)

How to use PS1 and N64 controllers with PC

[yerricde]

I just thought on how cool it would be to play quake with the nintendo 64 controller.

Want cool? Buy it now.

I personally prefer using PS1 controllers with the EMS USB2 adapter.

Re:How to use PS1 and N64 controllers with PC

[Fryed]

For those among us who would rather do it themselves, there's no reason to buy the EMS USB2 adapter listed above, as long as the machine you're using has a parallel port. For the cost of a few small parts at Radio Shack (or any other similar store) you can build your own with the easy instructions listed here. And trust me, it's incredibly easy to do.

Note: the link for the driver listed on that page is out of date. If you are planning on using this with Win9x, you can get the driver from here. For Linux, the gamecon kernel module is all you need. For Windows 2000/XP/etc, you're on your own...I'm almost certain drivers for it exist, but I have no idea where, or how well they work. Anyone else have any information about this?

The basic premise is not all that bad

[CTD]

Ignore the Microsoft connection and look at what they are basically pitching: An operating system designed with a set of standards that will make it easy for developers to design games. Right down to the controller.

The only drawback I can find is that it's a "super console plus!" situation. I'm a gamer, and I'm fine with that.

I've often speculated that a distribution of Linux should be made that is specifically geared toward gaming. Coordinate hardware support with the major vendors so their product works with ease, and build the OS specifically to deliver fast processing for gaming. Anything that has nothing to do with playing games is cut out of it.

Keep it free. Let game distributors bundle it with the games they sell. If the OS was good enough to deliver DoomIII on the day of retail, and you were able to tie down some major title support, it could work. Suddenly every gamer out there is running a Linux distribution to play their games. Suddenly every major developer is developing games just for Linux. Why? Because the OS functions well as a gaming OS (by design), and because it's free so everyone can have it.

In effect, you create a Linux standard for gaming, that can run top quality games, and is free.

Many of us have Windows because the best games work on it. Games are designed to work on Windows because most of us have Windows. Circular, but true.

If Doom III, GTA IV, and EverQuest 2 all came out for Mac and Mac alone, I'd be typing this on a blue keyboard right now. If they all came from Linux, I'd be typing this in a Mozilla window.

Mind you, I'd try this myself, but I can't code myself out of a 486 and have to feed my kids so I can't go urchin and skip on the rest of my life. :)

Re:The basic premise is not all that bad

[dghcasp]

build the OS specifically to deliver fast processing for gaming. Anything that has nothing to do with playing games is cut out of it.

# GameOS 1.0

# Real games don't need no steenking hw
# abstraction, scheduler or VM - Write to
# hardware directly, foo!

.orig=$ffffa0a4 # Main h/w boot pointer
jbsr.l GameStart;
hacf;

Two thoughts

[stevarooski]

From the article:

The plan is to set up a numerical system that categorizes and groups system levels, and when this goes into effect in 2005 or so, a level-1 system might represent the current or year-old value-priced PC configurations, while level 2 and level 3 group systems that define the mainstream and high-end performance of the time.

This strikes me as bad solution to an already sticky problem. Whats to stop a studio from saying a game that runs at 10fps on a system considered a "1" from slapping a "1" rating on it in order to maximize their possible audience? Its all about sales, right? In addition, I wonder if in 2005 the hardware change-rate will be any different, limitations of silicon or no.

Somewhat more straightforward features include adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger . . .[Microsoft is] also looking into making it possible to run Windows games directly from the CD without installation. . . .Microsoft is working on a standard PC controller, which would allow a more seamless conversion of cross-platform titles and generally simplify the use of PC gamepads.

Great, I've got a computer with a standard Microsoft controller, great graphics, that plays my DVDs, music, etc, and has matchmaking for me at no extra cost outside of bandwidth. Tell me again why I'd want an X-box?

Sure, there are other reasons for owning one, but it does seem that Microsoft, in working to console-ize the PC, might be somewhat shooting themselves in the foot. . . ? I'm sure they've thought of/discussed this, but it still strikes me as counter productive when they remain dedicated to the console industry.

Re:MS doesn't want DX on the PC to outshine the Xb

[atlasheavy]

meanwhile, people were still developing Playstation 1 games long past the time when it was _obvious_ that the Playstation 1 was the three year old PC equivalent of what their grandmother is using. Remember: consoles are special because they represent an unmoving target for game developers. Game developers optimize the hell out of console games, which they simply cannot do with PC games given the wide variety of available hardware (not to mention drivers, 3d lib support, operating systems, etc.) that the game could be running on. So, despite the fact that XBox is no longer (and has never been) a high-end PC, you will still see mind-blowingly complex games coming out for it because of this non-moving target fact. Same thing goes for the PS2, a 300MHz machine with some ridiculously small amount of RAM, and no hard drive.

A few interesting things here.

[TaranRampersad]

(1) Standalone CDs - With what I've read on Longhorn, this shouldn't be an issue - since the traditional file system will be replaced by a registry type database. However, for massively multimedia intensive games, there will be a physical need for installation - unless they mean DVD instead of CD.

(2) Standardization of a PC controller - this could be fun, because if they actually standardize, it would mean that people could build their own controllers... *if* they make it an Open Standard. History says no.

(3) With DirectX 9 stalled and 64 bit processors due out shortly, I wonder if the hooks for utilizing the 64 bit instruction set for the new Intel are already there - or if Microsoft is handing AMD a nice swing at a juicy ball.

(4) Centralization of game patch updates is interesting in that it means that game manufacturers may become inspired to put out shoddy first releases so that people need to go through the Update server to get the fixes that make things work... and if they didn't buy the title... Well, think about it.

(5) "adding sophisticated matchmaking into Microsoft Messenger and parental controls over which users can play certain games" adds to point 4, but also demonstrates that they are also doing something naughty that the DoJ had something to say about.

In all... Just more Microsoft. No really *good* news.

Perhaps they plan to tie the PC into the next XBOX

[cbreaker]

It seems to me that from reading this article they may be planning on compatibility between Loghorn and Xbox2.

Standard Controller, possibility of running games from CD, centralized game management. Since the Xbox is basically a PC, and the games are basically Windows games using DirectX, this isn't a stretch of the imagination.

Buy one game, and run it on your Xbox2 or your PC. Play online with people running Xbox2's and you can use your PC, or vice versa. With a standard PC "gamepad" it would be the same type of controls.

I don't think this would be a terrible idea, but it sure would push game developers more to a "windows only" choice of platforms, which isn't really great. I'm still hoping for more games on Linux.

Systems Engineering

[VoidEngineer]

So, I'll add my two cents, as an MCSE...

The plan is to set up a numerical system that categorizes and groups system levels, and when this goes into effect in 2005 or so, a level-1 system might represent the current or year-old value-priced PC configurations, while level 2 and level 3 group systems that define the mainstream and high-end performance of the time.

This numerical system could also be described as a "commodification system", a "social-engineering system", or a "market manipulation system". Be wary of this numerical system. This plan is begging to commodify PCs into more "bundled" and "console" like systems. Which, of course, is contrary to the concept of a generalized computing device, which many people believe a PC should be. My suggestion would be to clamor and veto this plan, if possible... It seems to have bad karma written all over it...

Lester revealed that DirectX 9 packs enough features to be future-proof and is a temporary stopping place for DX development.

A rather bold statement, all things considered. Does it support autostereoscopic monitors? How about lectiliniar monitors? What about multi-layer LCD or wave-monitors?

And what multi-head display configurations? Will it support a 9 screen configuration, in case I decide to build a dedicated MechWarrior station? (Anybody remember LucasArt's "X-Wing"? Heh... I always wanted to build a multi-head game pod for that game...)

Also, what about DICOM datasets and other volumetric biomedical datasets? Them algorithm based games are nice and all, but what about future games which may want to encorporate medical-grade bioinformatics? "Future-proof" is an awefully strong statement, it seems to me...

Anyhow... I don't know where I was going with this post. Just a couple of cents to add to the discussion...

It's all about choice, baby.

[Txiasaeia]

For me, the whole purpose of comp gaming is a wide variety in accessories. If I want to play a game using a mouse, then I can do it. If I want to use the keyboard, then I can do it. If I want to use my Belkin Nostromo and a Logitech Cordless Optical mouse, then I can do it.

I don't want to be forced to use a single console for a game, on a standarised system, playing games that can't be modded (Palladium), written using proprietary medium formats (DVD+/-), and using a single, specific OS. The computer is the Nascar of electronic gaming; in my opinion, consoles are just "street legals."

MOUSE damnit, MOUSE!!

[SHEENmaster]

Think about this:

When I want to aim, I want accuracy and speed. With a mouse I can just flip it and fire, a joystick of any kind interferes with that.

When I want to move forward I either want to run(fast) or walk(silently). A joystick for movement usually results in me breaking it or hurting my wrist trying to get every last degree of motion.

Gamepads are good for fighting games, they are good for 2d Zelda games, but nothing can take the place of a mouse in first person shooters. That said, a left-handed joystick and a mouse might be better than a k/b. I'll try it if I ever get the ambition.

Re:MOUSE damnit, MOUSE!!

[twiztidlojik]

What you want is a Nostromo n50 Speedpad.

This thing is positively orgasmic. Four toggleable modes for every control. Ten keys. A D-pad. A wheel. Completely configurable. Any set of keys. For example, my D-pad does jump+forward, jump+back, etc etc, one key mode does movement, another mode does orders (while holding down the previous key pressed), yet another mode does taunts, and still another mode does acknowledgements.

Hot damn. I love this thing. A Speedpad positively screams "awesome" when you bring it to a lan party. I nearly pissed myself when I saw it at the Belkin booth at MacWorld New York.

Re:MOUSE damnit, MOUSE!!

[afidel]

one thing can take the place of mice for FPS's, a trackball =) 3000dpi optical trackball means I can aim on a single pixel by moving my fingers ever so slightly, or a flick and I am arced 90 degrees across the screen. Plus I don't get all the RSI of a mouse user, I do get cramps from my hand being in one position too long if it's not at the right height, but I adjust my chair if that happens =)

um, it seems to me that uniformity needs to be

[Rooked_One]

brought to the console...

How many different console systems can you name that have the same controller?

I thought so - now think of how easy you have changed your binds on another person's pc when you are about to start gibbing.

thought so.

Current consoles use both of those methods

[yerricde]

Either your loading the whole game into RAM, *shudder*

That's what PS1 and PS2 games do. They load a basic OS into RAM and then mount the CD drive read-only.

or it will include a program to automatically install when you run the game, and uninstall the program when you finish.

That's pretty much what Xbox games do.

What PC levels really mean...

[SuperKendall]

Is you have a range of $500-$4000 consoles that play mostly the same games.

Ask 3DO how well it works out to sell consoles for around $700.

Windows XB; NVIDIA monopoly?

[yerricde]

compatibility between Loghorn and Xbox2.

Does that mean Microsoft is going to call Longhorn "Windows XB"?

Since the Xbox is basically a PC, and the games are basically Windows games using DirectX, this isn't a stretch of the imagination.

The Xbox 1 has NVIDIA graphics. Requiring an Xbox 2 compatible video card for whatever version of DirectX comes with Longhorn would pretty much hand the video card market to NVIDIA. Watch the next administration (that is, without AG A$$croft) breakup such a monopolistic action.

They can have my wheel and pedal set. . .

[kfg]

When they pry it from my cold dead fingers, and toes.

Same goes for my flight stick.

The PC is *not* a console. That's kinda the point. It's a *general purpose* machine which one can adapt as one likes. Hell, they've even had to supply wheel and pedal sets for consoles now. Using anything else for seriously playing driving sims doesn't even make sense.

I like adaptation, of the machine to me. Not the other way around, and I've never seen no "game pad" in a Fokker DR1.

KFG

Re:They can have my wheel and pedal set. . .

[stratjakt]

So dont buy a gamepad.

All I want is a good controller, with a standard PS2/xbox-like layout.

I like console games.

My PC is an order of magnitude more powerful than any console.

Why do the games I like have to run on lesser hardware? Why do the games for the better hardware bore me?

Thats the conspiracy.

John Carmack invented the Quake engine to bore the living hell out of me.

Now he's going to the moon. Good for him.

More like GameCube 2

[yerricde]

But they will market "GAMING!!" and everyone will buy it.

And then Nintendo will market "GAMING WITHOUT SPYWARE ON A BIG T.V. SCREEN WITH YOUR FAVORITE MIYAMOTO CHARACTERS!" and everybody will buy the GC2.

A few points

[Anonymous Coward]

A) How can you patch a game that isn't installed? Seriously, this doesn't seem possible.

B) Microsoft wants to certify certain hardware for Windows, and now Microsoft wants to create PCs built to a certain specification... does this strangely sound like Microsoft telling a lot of hardware vendors that they will either have to make clones of other pieces of hardware (and face the patent and copyright police) or to stop producing for the PC?

C) Microsoft, with its' Microsoft Messenger Matchmaker, is going to severly harm or kill match making software such as GameSpy. All your patches will come through something very similar to Windows Update and most everything will be in a Microsoft sounding "My Games" area. This company wasn't split because the US Govt. thought that they were not a monopoly?

D) One controller, for all games... doesn't this sound like Microsoft needing to give permission to people like Logitech if they want to invent something new (like, force feedback back before it was invented)?

One last thing, with you needing to go through all of these Microsoft services, running all of this Microsoft signed equiptment, and alike... I fear that privacy will be hard to enforce, at best...

Also, try to tell all the Overclockers and other insane computer people buying the latest hardware to speed up their machine that it won't be possible to do that anymore, instead they will need to go for a package deal and run at Microsoft specs... will this elite group of hardcore shoppers (willing to spend tons of money) stick around for these new terms? Somehow, I don't think so.

Re:A few points

[yawnmoth]

B) They already certify hardware, and qualify drivers. This is just another sticker vendors can put on the box to sell more units. (ever see "Designed for Windows 95" on anything you've owned?)

the point that he was trying to make is that Microsoft is going to be *choosing* what hardware will work with the OS.

as valid as the point was, i think it was a little misguided, though - for one, Microsoft already chooses, to some extenct, what hardware will work with the OS. not just any company can say that their hardware has been certified by Microsoft or carry the "Designed for Windows 95" logo - they have to pay to get that certification.

C) Windows update works. It'd be nice to use it to update games. And GameSpy can either compete or die, like any other company. They're basically just an IRC forum for peer to peer gaming.

Is that what Netscape and Sun should have done, also? Compete or die? If phone companies were to only allow their service on their lines, should other phone service providers just compete or die? I mean, just because Microsoft has a monopoly, for all essential purposes, over OS's, doesn't mean that they should have a monopoly over the whole of the computer, does it?

And I'm not worried in the least about the Microsoft 'boogerman' stealing through my innermost thoughts while I sleep and selling me out to foreign terrorists. Thats just slashbore jibber jabber.

slashbore jibber jabber would suggest that Microsoft sell our thoughts not to foreign terrorists, but rather to domestic thiefs :P

http://www.frostjedi.com/phpbb

Depends on your definition of uniformity

[Tsuzuki]

I think you got a bit carried away there. ;)

Take a PlayStation 2 game. It'll run on any other PS2 (in that region, anyway) because they all have the same hardware config. The game will run on later revisions of the PS2 (the PSone was revised several times, you can tell from the version numbers and designs). A PC game can not possibly have been tested on every hardware config out there, so it's almost inevitable that bugs/glitches/weirdness will arise on someone's system.

As for controllers, PSone and PS2 controllers are interchangeable; PSone games and memcards work on a PS2. You can get affordable adaptors to use just about any console's controller with any other console's controller ports.

The uniformity you describe could make for one of two things: not much functionality in order to cater for all games, or too much functionality to the point of confusion. (I could be misinterpreting your post, but do you even play games or are you just bashing on consoles?)

Re:Freelancer

[Flamerule]

Sure, they stole the idea for from another old game....

Freelancer was developed by a company called Digital Anvil, which was acquired by Microsoft a couple of years ago. Digital Anvil started development on Freelancer ~5 years ago, so Microsoft hasn't had so much of an influence on it.

But more importantly, Digital Anvil was founded by Chris (and Erin) Roberts, who made the Wing Commander and Privateer games at Origin. So Microsoft didn't steal the idea for Freelancer; Chris Roberts took it with him from Privateer. Unless you were referring to Elite, in which case Roberts stole that idea for Privateer.

Restrict Markets Again

[jpt.d]

Look at a few of the games lately, WC3 shipped with both mac and win versions on the same cd, SC4 is coming out for the mac, Moo3 just shipped with portability IN MIND, and mac is coming quite soon now). This is a bit of a trend that is becoming more common. What I think is that Microsoft wants to stop this sort of thing or make it extremely difficult. While it would be natural for that, Microsoft might have an ace up its sleeve trying to make something very tempting to use.

Re:Then buy me a second PC

[rainwalker]

Does the Half-Life engine support more than one keyboard or more than one mouse on one machine? Does it support split-screen?

This brings up an excellent point. I would have to say that there is nothing more obnoxious in the console world than split screen gaming. I mean, who the hell wants to play a FPS game when you can see everything your opponents are doing? I have 6 computers in the house, at least 3 of which make decent game machines, and I would never, ever want to play Half-Life in split screen mode on one of them. One of them is just for lending to visitors. A half-way decent game machine is as cheap as $400, and is a normal computer for the rest of the family at other times.

I don't pay much attention to consoles, but it looks like they are just starting to get the multiplayer features that PC's have had since forever. The idea of a 16-player FPS game involving 16 different machines is a novelty in the console arena, yet every day I play games with twice to fifty times that number of people in them.

On a side note, concerning controllers, what a joke. I keep hoping that Microsoft will release a FPS that is multiplayer across platforms so I can beat the pants off of some kid playing with his thumbs. I can pick a flagrunner out of the air with a headshot at 2000m in Tribes/Tribes2, I'd like to see someone do that with a thumbpad.

Anyway, enough ranting, back to the games :)

Computer Systems Standard Names Stuff

[mlk]

Exists, I have a
UT/Q3-class computer.
where as MrChris (a friend of mine, with more monney than sense) has a "Doom III"-class computer, the bastard, and my brother (with my hand-me-down) has a Halflife-class computer, and my firewall is a Doom-class computer.

Re:Computer Systems Standard Names Stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

What's really sad is that that makes sense to most of slashdot. Just to take a guess:
You have a P3 933 with 256 megs of ram, a GeForce 2 or 3, running a cracked copy of XP.
Your brother has about a pentium II 350 or so, with an internal ATI mach64 or S3 chip, 64 megs of ram, running windows 98 SE.
Your Firewall is a 486DX2/66 with 16 megs of ram, running, ummm... Redhat 6.2. I dunno.
I am a bit curious about how your friend MrChris got the money to buy a Beowulf cluster the size of Google's, though.

.NET and matchmaking

[Moochman]

Great! Now I'll be able to use my Passport .NET account for matchmaking services! I can't wait for Microsoft to begin providing such wonderful subscription services, can you? I'm salivating just thinking of the day when I can pay Microsoft a monthly rate to fulfill all of my gaming, word processing, e-mail and internet needs.

My Kung Fu is superior

[Charcharodon]

Sorry violent WASD is to slow and cuts off a whole column of keys. Move it to the right one and use ESDF then you've got three extra keys for weapon hot keys or A & G for left and right lean functions. (It also still works on the natural key boards that split at the G key) Or get really wacky and make it YGHJ if you just absoluting insist on programing every key bind in BattleField 1842 to be reachable by the left hand. If you want a controller to go with your mouse a friend of mine uses MicroSofts battlefield commander or what ever that wierd C&C controller they came up with is called. He had an easy time programing and then using all the easy to reach buttons and it was much faster than a joystick which tend to be set up for right handers anyway.

The delay of DX10...

[Sirwar]

...might give developers and computers a chance to catch up(possibly the reason for the delay). Right now we have games NOT being written for DX9 because most people still don't even have a DX8 video card. Hardware and software and keeping pace with each other, but the consumer is left in the dust. Its just time for a slow-down. Just like Intel and AMD producing ever-faster CPUs every other day, there gets to be a time when the market just says "ENOUGH! I'm happy with what I've got."

This gives hardware guys time to just pump out faster models, and take their time creating some big changes in new designs.

-Sir

Re:MS doesn't want DX on the PC to outshine the Xb

[Charcharodon]

Actually they already do that with PC's. Look at the wide variety of SIM/Tycoon games out there. The software hasn't changed hardly any since the first versions came out three/four years ago. Same goes for Half-Life/Counter strike. That game is crap compaired to what is out now, gameplay and graphics, but it'll run on just about anything so it remains very popular. The high end graphic (Unreal and others) games are the only big problem for companies, but they represent only a tiny portion of the market. Besides the high end "games" are usually just self-repaying developement tools to show off a companies latest game engine. They build a crapy game with all the bells and whistles in order to get companies to license their software and build descent games. Cough, cough UT2003 & Unreal 2 cough, cough.

I wouldn't call PS1/2 games mind blowingly complex. Find the key/weapon/item puzzle adventure games have been out since text based gaming. Anyone remember Madness and the Minotar? Consoles are for gamers that are afraid or don't want to be bothered with a PC or wish to play certain game types not available elsewhere. Admit it for the most part the PC lacks big time a descent variety of fighting, driving, or RPC games.

Re:Then buy me a second PC

[mib]

there is nothing more obnoxious in the console world than split screen gaming

I know the parent message was about Half-Life, but you know, game isn't just a longer way of writing FPS. Sure the Church of Carmack calls me a blasphemer, but if just one PC gamer is saved, it's worth it.

- mib

p.s. Don't be getting all smug now, believers in the Holy Order of the Two Commandments (1. Command. 2. Conquer.), you're just as bad.

Re:Then buy me a second PC

[Anonymous Coward]

[I]I can pick a flagrunner out of the air with a headshot at 2000m in Tribes/Tribes2[/I]
yea, aimhacks rule.

hmmm

[StuartFreeman]

If MS is so interested in gaming for the PC why don't they port some xbox games?

Split screen

[yerricde]

This brings up an excellent point. I would have to say that there is nothing more obnoxious in the console world than split screen gaming.

Then why do games such as Puyo Puyo, which is a split screen falling pieces puzzle game, sell? Hell, it even splits the screen on the Game Boy Advance version, which does have one machine per person.

A half-way decent game machine is as cheap as $400

For one thing, does that include the display and the Windows license? For another thing, most working families don't have $1200 to convert a one-machine setup to a four-machine setup for the kids who may come over on a play date.

I can pick a flagrunner out of the air with a headshot at 2000m in Tribes/Tribes2

<lamer>It appears an aimbot has passed the Turing test, and we're all witnessing it right now!</lamer>

Controllers and Levels

[i0wnzj005uck4]

Firstly, I will say in Microsoft's defense that the only thing they ever did right was the original Sidewinder joypad. I used it for years with win games, dos games, and emulators -- worked perfectly with all.

A standard gaming controller, distributed with new PC's, is not a bad thing. The keyboard and mouse are great for FPS games, but any time things go over the shoulder or oldschool platformer the keyboard/mouse combo tends to lack. Wanna know why the PC didn't get a port of Sly Cooper, or something equally fun? It's not just that Sony ownz it for the forseeable future -- the PC market has been overloaded with RTS and FPS games because that's really all it's good at with its controller set. Add in a standard gamepad which all developers could count on in the same way you can cound on a keyboard to have 80+ keys (laptops) and a mouse to have 2 buttons, and suddenly I think we'd be seeing a lot more platformer / puzzler / fighting games on PC again. When you think about it, who else but Microsoft has the power in the PC industry to throw something like this together?

As for "levels"... I don't like the idea of Microsoft implementing them, but I think they'd be a good thing. The largest problem in PC gaming is the fact that developers never have time to get used to a select set of specs before the next set comes out and gamers are clamoring for games that use the latest and greatest hardware. Look at UT2K3. Does it play any better, really, than UT? Not really. Could the same gameplay have been squeezed out of lesser hardware? Most certainly. Why didn't the developers try to fit more graphics into lesser hardware with more clever optimizations and geometry? Because they didn't have to. The reason Conker's Bad Fur Day on the N64 looked like a Dreamcast game was because the developers had been working with the hardware for 5 years, and knew exactly how to squeeze that last bit of power out of it.

Levels on a PC would do the same. If a developer knows exactly how much power a PC is going to have, they don't have to worry about whether or not their pretty particle engine will make the game drop frames on your machine -- they just boot up their own level XX machine and test. If a bunch of people out there have Level 1 PC's, chances are there will be a lot of Level 1 games produced for that demographic, and as many people don't go out and upgrade all the time, it'd be safe to assume that the Level 1 Demographic would be around for at least a couple of years, not unlike a standard console.

Then again, what do I care? Warcraft III plays great on my iBook, my Redhat PC's in parts, and for real gaming I hit up my Game Cube.

Re:Then buy me a second PC

[BigJimSlade]

Does the Half-Life engine support more than one keyboard or more than one mouse on one machine? Does it support split-screen?

No, but Serious Sam does.

That's really beside the point though. Serious Sam is the exception, not the rule. And I wouldn't really want to play FPS with a joystick instead of a keyboard. If I wanted that, I would go out and get one of the new consoles. I don't see the PC (as we know it, anyway) having a "standard" controller. Microsoft tried that with the Sidewinder, which I really liked. It didn't catch on. Oh well, most of the games that enjoy better gameplay from a pad I already have for a console, and for those that I don't I have a USB-> PS2 converter. Play Smash TV or Robotron 2084 via MAME with a PS2 Dual Shock sometime. It's wonderful.

Go ahead, pull the other leg.

[A_Non_Moose]

Microsoft will update its Sidewinder line

Considering how well my Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro works in Win2k (hint: can't use the hat switch and fire at the same time in MS OS's > 2k}.

I knew I should have stuck with the Logitec Wingman, but the hat switch on that thing kept getting broken {and Descent 2 multiplayer wasn't helping either}.

Oh, and you know why the 3D pro doesn't work properly in 2k...Microsoft won't update the drivers. {I've heard the win98 software will make it work, but no scripted events. Have not tried it, yet}.

IMO, before Microsoft attempts to make universal games and controllers, they should try to make their own hardware work with their software.

{grrr}

They weren't very good points though

[Len]

A) Patch, install, whatever. The way games are these days, I can't tell the difference between beta, release and patch anyway.

B) Microsoft has mandated (or pushed for industry comittees to mandate) lots of PC hardware standards. They "invented" mouse scroll wheels, funny keys on the keyboard, etc. yet somehow Logitech manages to stay in business. Standards for hardware compatibility are good for users.

C) GameSpy won't dry up and blow away just because Microsoft introduces a metching service. Direct3D hasn't killed OpenGL. DirectPlay hasn't made all developers stop writing their own net code - because DirectPlay sucks. If Microsoft's matchmaker is less crappy than GameSpy, then they have a problem. Fair warning to GameSpy.

D) "One controller, for all games" - That's you talking, not Microsoft. There can't be one controller for all types of games. They're just talking about a standard layout for gamepads. And if people don't like it, Logitech will offer different products. After all, how's Microsoft going to stop me from plugging a huge fricking machine into my USB port if I want to?

What a Standard Controller Might Look Like

[Databass]

Let's just do an excercise in stating the obvious and think what we've come to expect from game controllers. Okay so when we think game controller, for sure we've got:

L and R up on the top
Six pressable buttons on your right thumb, essentially X Y Z and A B C (You can call those X, O, "Square", doodecahedron, white, black or whatever, you're not fooling us.)
Left thumb main directional control, likely an analog thumbstick
Nowadays, usually some directional control on the right side too!
Start button
Maybe Select Button?
Maybe Auxiliarry top buttons like L2, R2, or Z?
Maybe Auxiliarry D-pad complimenting analog sticks

Not so hard, right?
From a developer's point of view, it would be nice to know that EVERY game will have access to this same pool of inputs. It would be nice to know that all your players can reasonably have this same setup while they're playing your game. Then you can design your control schema around this base up front and not have to change it with every platform you port to.

As a design excercise, trying thinking up a control scheme for an imaginary PC game, then think of what controls you want it to have. It's almost too much freedom! Sometimes when game developers are designing for PC they think "Wow, look at all those keys! A-Z, 1-9, F1-F12, *gasp* Numerical keypad! It's my priveledge, nay my DUTY to use every last one of these keys!" Then your game ships with this handy "Quick Keys Guide", an intimidating page filled with confusing symbology that scares off casual gamers. Having a standard controller really helps constrain your design choices to a managable level.

Casual Game Player: "Computer? How am I ever gonna play games on that?!"
Advanced gamer: [Saying nothing, plugs PC Controller into USB slot.]
Casual Gamer Player: "OH!"